EP. 106 | How Money Insights’ Investment Optimizer Strategy Makes a Difference with Blake Brogan

Hey there. I'm very excited to be a guest speaker at Mfincon, which is taking place live in Charlotte, North Carolina this June 23rd through 25th. I am going to be talking about my path towards financial independence and how you can do the same thing. You can get your ticket now at www.mfincon.com. that's M F I N C-O-N.com use special code next level, all caps to get your discount. And I'm sending you this special code because if you're serious about apartment syndication, multifamily investing, real estate investing, commercial real estate, mfincon is for you. I'll be speaking alongside an excellent lineup of 50 plus multifamily experts and professionals, as well as Shaquille O', Neal, Barbara Corcoran, and Jocko Willink. The opportunities at this event for networking are endless and you do not want to miss out on any of the great sessions that are planned. And with this special code, Next level, you'll save $200 on your ticket. I'll see you there. On today's podcast, we have Blake Brogan. Blake is a senior wealth strategist at Money Insights, an alternative wealth building firm for high income earners. Blake specializes in helping clients understand and implement powerful strategies to accelerate their wealth building, optimize their investment, and discover innovative ways to move from high income to high net worth.

Welcome to the Next Level Income show where it's our goal to raise your income, investments and life to the Next level with host Chris Larson. Get your free copy of his book@nextlevelincome.com book also, if you're an accredited investor, check out the Invest link to learn how to gain access to institutional quality real estate opportunities.

All right, Blake Brogan, welcome to the show.

Happy to be here, Chris. Been looking forward to this.

Absolutely. So today we're going to be talking about the Investment Optimizer and I'm going to let you jump into another way that you can add profitability to your investments. But first, there is a slideshow that goes along with that. So you can check out our YouTube channel, which is there on the website. Just click on the podcast, click on the YouTube link and you can check out these slides. But before we dive in, Blake, I'd love for you to share with the audience a little bit more about your background. We've been working together for about a year now, but tell the audience how you have come to focus on this specific area of the insurance world.

Yeah, that's a good opening. You know, really for Me, I've always loved business. When I started to look for what colleges I wanted to go to, I actually settled on one of the only schools in the country at the time that was offering an entrepreneurship program. So I went to. Went to school to study entrepreneurship. And when I was at this college that I learned about different people who had been utilizing these strategies. So I had a professor who ran some e commerce businesses and he flowed all this stuff through this strategy. I had a roommate whose family were very entrepreneurial. They started many businesses and they used this strategy. So I had actually started to learn about it when I was in college. However, at the time I really had no money. So obviously it was more just kind of learning about some of the principles and then implement the strategy in my own life when I graduated college. Since then, been teaching others the strategies as I've, you know, started to realize the power of them and what can be accomplished when you, when you utilize it. And then so I've been doing that for years and then ended up linking up with money insights as I started to learn more about you and other people that they worked with and really the reach that they had. And it's opened up a lot of opportunities even, you know, Chris, with people in your community. I've spoken with a lot of them, really cool things with them. And the strategy just works right in and can kind of plug into what you're doing and just do the investing that you're teaching them how to do just in a more profitable.

No, I love it. And I think it's fortunate that we have access to this option, but it's unfortunate in a sense, I think. I started our cash value life insurance policies, we call them Infinite banking or bank on yourself, back in 2009, before our first son was born. And they were set up fine, but I was having a conversation with my insurance agent several years later, and what my wife and I were doing is we were taking money out of our policies, we were using policy loans and we were building spec homes. And I was talking to my agent one day, I was telling him what we did. He said, man, Chris, I love what you're doing. I wish more of my clients would do this. And I just remember hanging up and shaking my head and thinking to myself, why aren't they? And I also thought, why wasn't I told about this type of strategy? So, Blake, when you tell the story about being in college and entrepreneurship and learning about business owners and people moving funds and setting the strategy up to really help them optimize their Financial business operations optimize their investments. I like to say the rich don't invest like Dave Ramsey says, right. Buy term, invest the difference. That's not a way towards early financial freedom. That's kind of an old way to do it. So let's dive into the investment optimizer and the mechanics behind it.

Yeah, that's great. I think when people talk about this buy term and invest, the different strategy that might work for a certain segment of the population. However, for those who are interested in the alternative investing world, who are looking to create cash flow to a financial freedom number a lot quicker, this strategy just kind of plugs right in and we'll kind of hit on some of the differences. So talking about the investment optimizer, you know, our tagline here is just adding another layer of profitability to the investing that you're already doing. So we're not trying to change what you're investing in. It's just really how the money flows in and out of the deals that you're doing. So let's talk about. About what the problem that we're solving here. So here's what typically happens before people meet us. They're building up money in a safe, liquid place. Oftentimes that's a bank account. They're just waiting and accumulating capital there before they find a deal with you, Chris, or someone else where they're going to deploy that cash. As that investment starts to kick off, cash flow just goes right back into a bank account. Right. So the natural inefficiency, it's not the investing, but it's what the money, what's going on with the money in between deals. So if we have our money accumulating in a bank account, right, it's not really earning for us. We don't really get many tax benefits. And then even on the conservative end, inflation, you know, might be 7, 8%. So we're losing value every year day that our money's in our savings accounts. So what we're trying to solve is the Opportunity Fund, where we're storing our money and how we're flowing money in and out of our deals. So what are we looking for? Well, we need to have a place that's safe and liquid because whenever opportunities come up, we need access to that cash. But is there a way that we could do that where we could have growth in between the deals? Could we create some tax benefits? And that's what this strategy is going to allow us to do. And then the really cool part is, which will. We'll Jump into here. Utilizing this investment optimizer, we're able to create benefit in multiple places at the same time. So very literally, as opposed to just having your money earn in one place now going to earn in two places at the same time. So what are options? Again, most people are using savings and money markets and we're going to look at a third option which is using the investmentizer here.

Yeah, and I think a lot of people that are listening, and I've heard this multiple times, Blake, they say, and that's not, you know, I can get a better return outside of this investment optimizer. And what I like to discuss with investors is, yeah, but you can't look at this as an investment. If you read chapter three in my book, I talk about the Opportunity Fund, which is going to, we're going to talk about exactly the strategy that I've been using here myself. And you really have to look at this as a vehicle. This is a vehicle where you were getting a benefit by using it and you were setting it up to optimize the way you flow funds through it.

And I would even say if this is the best rate of return that you could get is in a like this, then we got to be having a discussion about what you're doing on the investment side. Because everyone who's, who's utilizing these policies is able to create larger rates of return than what we're getting here. So again, our goal here is to replace where the money is being stored in between your deals and optimizing how money's flowing in and out as opposed to replacing anything that you're going to do.

Love it.

So here's what we're going to. Here's what we're going to do. We're just going to do a quick Person A versus Person B. Again, the way that most people are investing right now, just using a savings account, building that up, deploying it, putting the money back into the saving account. And then we're going to use the investment optimizer, person A versus Person B and just take a look at some of the results. So here's some of the assumptions that we made. Someone's going to save $100,000 a year for five years to capitalize our Opportunity Fund for alternative investing. So $500,000 total in year one, we're going to make an initial investment into a syndication. Then after that subsequent, we're going to start purchasing just cash flowing real estate. And we're going to do it in the way that most people do. You know, it could be 80% from a traditional lender and then 20 down. And then we had to make some assumptions. So we're assuming 15% cash flow from an investment and then we're also going to assume some 5% appreciation on the properties. Now before I jump into the numbers, what someone will often say is, okay, Blake, 15% is amazing. Where do I find a deal like that? Some people will say, I wouldn't even do a deal for 15%. So no matter where you are on the spectrum, the point of this is just apples to apples. If we have the same investment, if we flow the money through our bank account or through our investment optimizer policies, what's going to produce the most wealth? Because that is the purpose of the strategy is just do investing we're already doing and creating more wealth as we do it. So here's our, here's our kind of our numbers again using those assumptions. Investment optimizer, one of the things that you might quickly realize is we don't have the full $100,000 in year one that we put into the strategy. So are certainly some opportunity costs that are involved with utilizing the strategy. Where of course, if we have a savings account 100k in there, we could go deploy that into a syndication. So as we look at these numbers here, you know, we are taking into account all the costs and the opportunity cost that's associated with implement strategy. However, that being said, you know, we're doing the same investing over the same 20 year time period and just kind of fast forwarding what you're going to see. By investing in the same assets, the investment optimizer is able to create an additional $2 million of wealth that we were able to create in our savings account. Now that being said, even in the savings account we went from 500,000 and grew that to over $20 million during 20 years. So where is the true wealth creator happening? It's happening in the real estate investing that we're doing. So we're not at all saying that this strategy is going to replace your investing. Instead we're just flowing the money through here and creating some additional efficiencies to the tune of $2 million more than the way that we were typically doing it.

Now look, I look at this and I can see at the end of 20 years, this makes sense. But Blake, for somebody that says, hey, yeah, but why do I want to give up that opportunity cost of 20% plus my first year in funds, why would you do that? Why wouldn't you just invest cash instead?

Yeah, and that's one of the big hangups. So the biggest challenge that people say as they look at this is exactly what you said, Chris, okay, I'm losing 20% of my liquidity. Is that worth it? Now what we would say is, you know, if your investing timeline is maybe three, four years and then you want to be done, you want to exit the game, then this strategy may not be for you. However, if it's five years, 10 years, 20 years, you know, some people might even be longer. But as long as we're over that, your time horizon. Yes, there's opportunity cost up front. You know, there's no, no hiding behind that. That being said, once we get past those first couple years, you'll see we're just able to create significantly more wealth by implementing the into our investing. So really for me, it comes down to what's your timeline? Is it just years or are we planning to be at least active in our investing for 5, 10, 15, 20 years going forward?

Yeah, I think that's a great point. I think the other thing is this is a strategy for somebody that has a need for life insurance. I mean, if you're a young single, like I Talked to a 33 year old young man, no family, no kids, nothing, he's got cash, you know, he can just invest that cash and do that. Otherwise, now chances are he meets somebody, gets married, he's still pretty young, he's doing pretty well, so he's probably pretty eligible. But yeah, so I mean, what do you, you know, is that, is that true? Like, is this for somebody that really needs the insurance?

Yeah, what we say is, you know, the death benefit, again, at the end of the day, we're talking about life insurance. The death benefit is something that just kind of comes along for the ride. So that's something that we just don't have to pay for in any other way. So yes, we, we are creating some very significant death benefit. The funny part is as we, we set up these policies, we're trying to minimize costs as much as possible, which includes minimizing the death benefit. However, that being said, you what the death benefit kind of grows to by life expectancy and they, you know, becomes a very significant part of someone's estate or their legacy planning. So we don't underplay that, even though we're trying to design these policies purely for the cash and minimize the death benefit as much as, as much as we can.

Yeah, I think that was the big surprise to me when I was going through the estate planning process and my attorney looked at me. And he said, hey, this is what your net worth is. You have to really think about this. And I was like, that number is way higher than our net worth. And he said, well, you have all this life insurance. And that was when the light bulb went off in my head, Blake, which was, I am building a legacy for my family and my family's net worth includes the insurance, the death benefit from these policies. And that's where I started to say, wait a minute, this is really how the rich do it. They don't plan for a generation, they plan for multiple generations.

Out, yeah, certainly. Okay, let's talk about the vehicle because we kind of dance around it. We talk insurance. Some people when they hear that for the first time, they're like, you know, how does this apply to me? Well, this is a pretty specific type of life insurance. So we refer to as max overfunded dividend paying whole life insurance. And that's quite a mouthful. But what we really mean is when we're designing these policies, we want to maximize the cash portion, the ester component, and minimize the cost as much as possible. So when we design policies this way, we're able to create some benefits. So our growth in the policy is going to get us right up to about a 5% return. Now additionally, because of how these policies are set up, we're able to generate 5% return tax free. And this goes to the point of what you brought up earlier, Chris, is okay, 5% tax free, you know, that, I mean, that's, you know, equivalent to 6, 7, 8, depending on someone's tax bracket. You know, I could do better in my investing. But again, this is, this return is what we're going to be able to generate in addition to the investing that we're already going to do. So it does, you know, become pretty significant. Now third, if this is safe and predictable growth, so this isn't like having your money in some sort of where we can lose it all. The growth in, in the policy is guaranteed to go up in value every year. Now additionally, this cash that we're building is completely liquid. So we can access it as soon as 30 days after the policy goes in force. And any time that we want, we have total liquidity. Now that that benefit we have listed here is the death benefit. Again, that's not our primary focus when we're setting this up again, it just comes on the policy. It's something that we don't have to pay for in any, but it does become a pretty significant death benefit. Now here's the Fun part is this loan provision. The way that we access funds from a life insurance policy in the optimal way is utilizing this loan provision. And that's what's going to allow us to be able to generate the benefit in multiple at the exact same time.

I think this is a surprise to a lot of people. I mean, when you find out, hey, you have this, you have this cash value in life insurance and you can pull it out at any time, it's very powerful.

Yeah, certainly. All right, so let's talk about how we do that. Okay, so here's what we're doing. We're taking dollars and we're just flowing them into this bucket. Okay, Just think about this bucket. We talked about it growing, you know, up to 5%. Well, how exactly does this something grow can predictably up to a 5% rate of return? Well, there's two ways. The first is that there's a guaranteed interest portion of these policies. And so this is what gives us that predictable compounding growth that we know no matter what happens in the markets, that we can count on this every year. Now, additionally, the companies that we set these accounts up through are what are known as mutual life insurance companies. So mutual life insurance companies are actually running for the benefit of policyholders. So as these companies are profitable from all their divisions, those are distributed, those profits are distributed annually to policyholders in the form of an annual dividend. Now, those dividends are not guaranteed. That being said, the companies that we do business with have all paid dividends for well over 100 years in a row. Plus. So overall, these are very safe, secure assets that we know that we can depend on the Gorina policies. So we have this opportunity, opportunity fund, and it's growing. Okay, so we've capitalized our account. Now a Chris Larson vacation deal comes up, or someone else has an investment opportunity that you want to take advantage of. So as opposed to liquidating money from a bank account like we typically would, we don't actually even liquidate money from the cash value of our insurance policy. Instead, we get access to a much bigger bucket of money, which is just the general account of the insurance company that we have the policy with. Okay, so we want to do a deal. What do we do? We take a loan. So that money, let's say we want to invest 100k. We say send us 100k. That 100k is not your money coming to you. That's actually a loan from the general account of the insurance company. Take that loan and then go deploy it into the cash flowing, investing that we were already going to do anyways as that, as that investment starts kicking off cash flow, redirect it back into our policy, repay the loan. And strategically all we're doing is building up our opportunity fund to go out and do this cycle over and over. So as you're investing, money is just flowing in and out of this loan side. But the benefit to us, if you're, if you're watching on YouTube, we have a line kind of separating our opportunity fund bucket versus our loan bucket. Here's the big kind of secret sauce is as we're taking loans to go do our deals, never removed any money from our opportunity fund. So it stays in our bucket growing and compounding for us without any interruption. Very literally, we have the money growing for us in our opportunity fund compounding, and then we're able to access money via loan to go do the deals that we're doing. So we money growing in our policy and in our investing at the same time.

Yeah, and one of the things I love is like there's no loan approval process. I just call the life insurance company or now I just go online and fill out the form. We're actually going to talk about what I do differently now than this here in the next part of the presentation here. But it's amazing. You don't have to submit your income, you don't have to submit your credit file, none of that.

And people ask all the time, well, how was the life insurance company able just to give you a loan with no terms? They don't even tell you when you need to pay it back. And really it's because the cash, the growth on the cash value is guaranteed. So they're using your cash value as col for this loan. So at any time the insurance company is totally fine. They know they're going to be repaid at some point either when you pay them off or when you pay away. The death benefit could be used to pay it off. But what that allows us as investors to do is have total control over when and even if we repay that loan. So again, we get this compound, but we also have total control in terms of access to funds and when we repay.

Yeah, that's beautiful. They know what the underlying collateral is and it makes perfect sense from their perspective.

Yeah, that's where the safety and predictable growth is very important. So let's just give a couple overview, key benefits, why doing this? Well, obviously our opportunity funds that people are typically using are, are not very efficient. So we're able to grow money much quicker than we can, in a bank account, we're able to do so in a tax free basis. We're able to create value both in our Opportunity fund and our investing at the exact same time. And now what I want to do is transition into some of the numbers. Like what, what are we doing? Well, we're just using leverage and we're able to create arbitrage between what we're earning in the policy, what we're paying on the loan side. And really it comes down, it's a very simple concept, but just comes down to earning, compounding and paying. Simple. So let's kind those numbers. So if you think back to the strategy, we have our dollars in our, in our Opportunity fund in our bucket. We never remove those. So what that means is that up to 5%, that's on a compounding basis, right. Completely uninterrupted. Whereas we repay the loan, as long as we're at least paying the interest, we're paying that back on a simple interest pack on a decreasing balance. Okay, so let's take a look at an example. So let's say we wanted to take $100,000 loan to go invest in a, in a syndication deal. We take that loan again, we can repay it however we want. But let's just say we set up a 20 year payback schedule. So we're going to pay back $8,000 a year and over the 20 years we will repay $100,000, the principal, plus $60,485 of interest. So on the surface someone would say, okay, if I use my bank account, I don't have to take a loan, I don't have to pay interest. The 60,000 is a cost to me. Why would I do that? Okay, so we have a $60,000 cost. And just to be very clear, you borrowed from the insurance company. That interest doesn't you, that goes to the insurance company. So that is revenue, that's profit to them that you're paying. Why would we ever want to do that? Well, it's because we were able to keep our $100,000 that was serving as collateral for the loan we took from the insurance company. We never removed that from our policy. That just continued to grow, earn and compound. So we were paying 5% on the loan side to the insurance company to take a loan. Now we're earning 5% again on the surface. Why would we do that? Isn't that a wash? We getting ahead? Well, really it comes down to this idea of compounding for simple. So our 100,000 remained in the account Compounding at the same interest rate that we were paying over 20 years, and we grew our cash value by over $165,000. So let's think about that. On the simple interest side, we were paying 60,000 to borrow the insurance company's funds at 5%, and we were compounding at 5%, and we were able to earn 160,000. So simply by flowing the money through the policy, taking a loan against it, doing the same investing we were already planning on doing, we were able to create an additional $105,000 of arbitrage in terms of what we were earning on the cash value side versus what we were paying on the loan side.

And I think a lot of people are going to want to go back and watch that again. It even took. Look, I have a master's degree in finance. It took me a couple times to really process this, but I think a great way to think about this is like real estate. Whole life insurance is a lot like real estate in the sense that that policy value is growing, your home value is growing, and if you're paying down the mortgage every month, that balance is getting smaller and smaller. But the value of your house over long periods of time, you know, if we look back, there's. There's short periods where it goes up and down, but your house continues to grow. And if over the last year, your house went up 10% in value and you've owned it for 10 years, it's. It's going up 10% on the increased value of your house over that 10 years. It's a very similar.

Yeah. And if you have a line of credit, a home equity line of credit against your house, that has no effect on what the value of your home is. Right. So that's just going to go with the difference between maybe the housing market versus whole life insurance structured in this way is that we have that guaranteed compounding that we're earning in whole life insurance don't necessarily have in the real estate.

So let's talk about this, because this.

Is what, this is your favorite. This is your favorite topic.

I know. I've been waiting. Yeah, I've been waiting the whole, you know, the whole chat here to get to this. And this is what really, you know, again, I was frustrated because when I learned about the strategy, I was like, oh, my gosh, why have I not had access to this for so long? This is something that my family and I have implemented here during the last year with your help. And Money Insights helped Blake. And one of the reasons that we Love this is we now have four policies and they all roll up into this line of credit that we now use.

Okay, so let's talk about the same exact strategy that we're talking about, but just kind of add even some more efficiencies to it. And it's using what we call the cash value line of credit. So here's exactly what's happening. You set up an insurance policy, max fund it like you would, but then as opposed to going to the general account of the insurance company to take a loan, you can go set up a line of credit, literal line of credit, from an outside institution, a bank, and they'll use your cash value as collateral for that line of credit. So there's, there's many advantages to doing it that way. First and foremost, you're, you're likely going to get a better interest rate on the loan. So with the policy loans that we were taking, we were using an example of a finite loan. Sometimes with these cash value line credits at the time that we're recording, you know, it could be three, three and a quarter, three and a half, you know, various interest rates depending on what bank you're using, but a pretty significant benefit in terms of an interest rate. One of the other big benefits we don't have on this list here, Chris, that you mentioned is if you have multiple policies, it's very easy to manage all of those policies with one line of credit as opposed to having to take loans against multiple policies. And really just adds a lot of, in terms of the timing of when you can access funds. Sometimes these cash value line of credits are again, super liquid that you could checkbook access, essentially. So the cash value in the policy, if you implement this cash value line of credit, it's going to grow all the same. So you're not actually removing funds. Nothing's happening with the policy. It's just that we have a line of credit established against this. So what we always encourage is, hey, check with your local bank. A lot of banks will loan against us, but not. And if your local bank, who you're already banking with, doesn't offer a program like this, we have a list of banks that we work with and we can point you in the direction of some of the.

There.

Another really unique portion to this is that we can switch out the cash value line of credit or the policy directly from the insurance company at any time. So by setting this up, you're not beholden to a bank. You can always flip back to using your policy loans. These are variable interest rates. So if one interest rate ends up going higher than the other one, we can just flip back and forth.

So.

Very convenient. You're not locking your in anything. It's just an added benefit that you can really use on top of what you're already doing.

It's sweet.

So let's go back compound versus simple. In the first time we were talking about, your money grows 5% on a compound basis. And if we're paying 5%, what's the arbitrage that we can. Well, on the compounding, again, nothing's changing on the cash value side, so my money stayed in the policy earning a 5% compounding rate. So we got the same 165k of growth over a 20 year time period. On the simple interest side. Right. We went down from a 5%. In our situation, we're using 3% loan here. So that's a difference of $34,000. So originally, if we use the bank, excuse me, if we use the general count of the insurance company to take a loan, we were paying 60,000. But by substituting the bank, we were able to drop that down to 34,000. So again, one scenario that might not sound like a huge deal. I mean, yeah, it's another 25, $26,000. That's great. But that being said, as we utilize in conjunction with our investing for two decades, in our example, that's a pretty significant benefit. So if we go back to the person A versus person B.

Right.

So person A was just using the savings account, person B flowed their money through the investment optimizer. By just adding an additional layer of efficiency, lower interest rate, we were able to generate an additional $2.1 million. Excuse me, $1.1 million of benefit on top of that we already had. So if you're watching this on YouTube, you'll see that we have a net difference. By flowing money through the investment optimizer and then putting a cash value line of credit on that of 3.1 million. Where in the other, in just using the regular loan from a, from a insurance company, it was just about a little over 2 million. So just a layer of efficiency, it's more efficient.

And when you look at the differences, when you add a couple percent here and there over a long period of time, you can see what those numbers add up to. And I will say that we use a really simple example here today, Blake, where we're talking about going out and purchasing property. If you invest in syndications, these numbers can be even larger depending on the types of investments you make. So again, if you're listening and you're like, yeah, percent here, percent there doesn't make a big difference. I want you to look at these slides. These, we're talking about seven figure differences over a 20 year time horizon. It's a huge number.

Huge, huge. There's no doubt. So let's just kind of start wrapping this up. What are we doing? Why are we utilizing these key takeaways that you should be taking from listening to this conversation first is we're not trying to change any of the investing that we're already doing. Right. So the investor, we're just plugging the system into what you're doing and it's just at the end of the day, it's just a more profitable way of flowing money in and out of the investing. So if you're already planning on investing, it does take, you know, just makes sense to take a look at utilizing this in conjunction with what you're doing. Why is it more profitable? Well, able to grow our money in a tax free manner. Supposed to, you know, 0.1% or whatever earnings in savings accounts now and that's taxable.

All right.

We're able to generate a pretty significant tax free return while our money's in between deals. We're still able to get that safe, predictable growth that we, that we, you know, to have in an opportunity fund. We didn't touch on this as much, but this is state dependent. But a lot of states have total creditor protection. So if you're a high income, you're looking for how to add some creditor protection to, to your capital and you know, not necessarily sheltering, but keeping money away from potential lawsuits. This is a very significant benefit. And then kind of lastly, a question that often gets asked is, okay, well we built up these millions of dollars of cash value while we were using it for investing. Well, what does it look like? How do I get the money out of it? Is this just a big inheritance that I'm leaving to my heirs and could be, or you can take that cash value and turn it into a completely tax exempt income stream later in life. So we're not going to get the phase two we call it and taking money out, but it can be a significant additional retirement bucket that you're building up and you're just doing it naturally by plugging this into what you're already doing on the investing side.

I think it's amazing and if you look at the way it works, a couple things. One, it can really optimize the way your funds flow. So you have that benefit. Something I've noticed is it, it's simpler. So when I make investments, it's definitely simpler when you do that. And then like you're saying, Blake, you have these other options for retirement income that are out there, and you're doing it in a way that has all these additional benefits that ultimately can really, truly help create a legacy not only for you, but also your family and future generations.

Absolutely right. And one of the nice parts is it just kind of all lumped into, you know, one strategy. So hope you found this helpful. Chris, any, you know, any kind of final thoughts on what we talked about here?

Well, again, this is something that, you know, as I talk about and like to tell people, get my book, learn from the mistakes I made so you don't have to take 15 years to figure it all out. This is something that I wish I saw I knew 13 years ago when we started our policies. So if you want to learn more about this, you can check out our website, NextLevelIncome.com, click on the banking link, you can watch this webinar, you can get a free copy of the Money Insights book that we have up there. And you can also get in touch with Blake if you want to learn more about this strategy or anything else that we've talked about today. All right, thanks. Thanks, Blake. Appreciate your time. Hey, Chris, here again. I hope you found this episode valuable. Now I have one more thing to gift you. We have a page for my coaching clients where you can get a free copy of my book as well as much more from previous guests on the show. Just check out nextlevelincome.com coaching to get a free copy of my book, audiobook and much more. I'll send you a copy of my book and cover all the shipping costs as a thank you for listening to the podcast. Also, please like share and take just 90 seconds to give us a rating on Apple Podcasts.