Ep. 133 Taking Your Health to the Next Level with Dr. Doug Lucas

All of our patients are on, on a different eating plan and that's where the coaching is critical because you could go to a doc that does work like this. You meet with them once and you walk away with this. Usually this massive report like, like we give to, you know, we're guilty of that.

Welcome to the Next level income show where it's our goal to take your income, your investments and your life to the next level. I'm your host, Chris Larsen. If you haven't yet, get a copy of our book for free at our website, nextlevelincome.com. that's www.nextlevelincome.com. just click on the book link and I'll even send you a copy if you put your address in. With my coaching clients, I talk about how to develop a wealth plan to develop six figures of passive income. But there's something we like to talk about first, and that's your health. I'm excited Today to have Dr. Doug Lucas on the podcast. Dr. Lucas is a fellowship trained precision health specialist who specializes in metabolic health hormone optimization for both men and women, osteoporosis and longevity. Dr. Doug aims to address the underlying causes of chronic pain to improve, improve both health span and lifespan. And his passion is to work with patients looking to optimize their health through a customized approach based on genetic data, extensive evaluation and an in depth lifestyle examination. Dr. Lucas, welcome to the show.

Hey Chris, Happy to be here.

Yeah, yeah, this is, I've been looking forward to this for a long time. I was, you know, I, I'm trying to figure out how I can optimize my health several years ago and I, I figured, I was talking to a friend who taught, told me about this genetics based medicine, this personalized medicine and most of the audience doesn't know this, but I've been doing this going on seven years and I think it's, it's only fair to say that you, you are my personal physician. You've really helped me take my health to the next level. And I'm really looking forward to this conversation, but I'd love for you to share a little bit about your background because you came from a traditional medicine background before you entered into this world.

Yeah, that's right. And I appreciate you calling me that. I, I obviously love working with you and people that are looking to optimize their health, so I appreciate that. Yeah. So my background, you know, coming from the, my full training as an orthopedic surgeon, traditional practice fellowship train and really focused on the whole, the, the Whole, the original practice of medicine. Right. The way it's supposed to be done. And, you know, very quickly I recognized that, that there was something missing in my practice. Now, I loved operating and I loved working with the patients that I was working with, but I felt there was something missing. And I finally figured out, after about really five years, ish of operating and working with patients is that I always wanted to talk to them about how to prevent what they were coming to me for. Which is very backwards if you're looking inside medicine. You know, I was talking to patients about nutrition, about exercise, and about, you know, supplementation and how to avoid, you know, certain potential complications from surgery. But we always ended up talking about these things. And then I ultimately realized that that's not why patients were there to see me, and then had to go down this road of, okay, how do I, how do I figure out how to do this thing that I like to do? So ultimately ended up making a shift. But yeah, so I started there and then the traditional practice of orthopedic surgery.

Yeah, no, and I is again, I think a lot of people actually do know this. I spent 18 years in the medical device industry, and I was fortunate to work with, you know, a lot of your colleagues, both, you know, generally around the country, but also locally here, which. Which is pretty wild. And we actually got introduced through your wife, who, Dr. Ashley Lucas, who has along with you, a national, nationally known weight loss clinic. Can you. You share a little bit about that and what, what PhD weight loss does?

Yeah, so this was actually like integral. My shift is that I was working my subspecialties in foot and ankle. So I did a fellowship at Stanford and foot and ankle after my general orthopedic training. And so I see a. I saw a lot of diabetic patients, people that had foot ulcers, and, you know, all the, all the bad and in game things of diabetes. When I talked to my wife, her approach to diabetes, you know, she was already, you know, had created this business, was seeing patients, and, um, she was telling me that she was reversing diabetes. And I thought, it's not possible. You can't reverse diabetes. That's not what I was taught. And I'm a doctor. And so we kind of had these back and forth. And then she proved me, to me that it wrong, which is, you know, pretty standard in my household. And you're gonna make that clip.

We gotta make that a clip. I'm gonna, I'm gonna put that all over social media.

It's gonna go on Social.

I'm gonna tag. Tag Ashley.

Yeah, she'll love it. So. But it was so true. And I. She showed me example after example, and she was helping to what we now call putting diabetes in remission. And so I started talking to my patients about this concept, and again, it just wasn't really well met in my office, because that's not what they were there for. But it just showed me that, oh, my gosh, you know, something like diabetes could be put in remission or the complications could be avoided. So I started looking into, okay, my gosh, what else? You know, like, what else are we really missing the target on, like, completely? You know? And so the fall into that group for me would be, obviously, diabetes, things like dementia prevention. I think we're really missing out on in bone health, which, you know, a huge component of our practices in bone health and osteoporosis. So these things were just totally missing the. The. The target completely and, like, off target. We're just, like, not even shooting in the right direction in the traditional medical model. And not to disparage the traditional medical model either. They are doing what the model has for them to do, the physicians, and they're doing it with the right intent. It's just that the model is not designed to help prevent things like this that are very, like, multifaceted. So going back to Ashley, so her business really helps to show me that there is a powerful way to prevent these things that are causing a tremendous amount of just disease and complications, which really are unnecessary.

Yeah. And I. I think, you know, the big component of that is lifestyle, which we can start to talk about some of that. But, you know, it's interesting, because when people would come to me, they'd say, hey, Chris, you're. You're in this world. I need to have surgery. I need to go see a doctor, you know, oh, this. This. This doctor's really nice. This surgeon's really nice. I'm gonna go see them. And I'd say, well, you know, do your homework, because then you can tell me if I'm wrong here. I said, doctors are kind of like car mechanics. You know, there's good ones, there's bad ones, there's ones that specialize in certain things. But the healthcare world's weird, Dr. Lucas, because we have these mechanics, right? Like, these surgeons that do amazing things, and we get, you know, our oil change in the car, and, you know, now cars are so complicated. You got to plug in a computer to figure out the diagnostics. Like, I can't. You know, I Can't fix my cars like my, my father did. You know, when I was a kid, he built rebuilt Corvettes. Like, it's, it's almost impossible now to do that, you know, but the body's even more complicated than that. But then we go from, hey, you know, this is kind of how you're supposed to eat, to hey, come and see us when you have a big problem, that it's basically like your car's broken down on the side of the road, you blew your knee out, you had a heart attack, you have this issue where, where is that gap? And you know, you've seen this, like, where's the gap begin in the medical world?

I think it begins at the beginning.

So the.

What I see if you just like, take a big step back and just say, okay, well, like, why, like, why are diseases like diabetes and osteoporosis, why are they so. Use the word mismanaged, but maybe mishandled, I don't know what the right word is. But not prevented. They're not adequately prevented. I think that's a fair statement. And how does that happen? And it happens because the way that these things occur are by issues that we're not looking at early on. And I think it really goes to speak to what is the medical model driven by? And it's driven by procedures, it's driven by this, it's driven by the insurance companies. And so if you think about, like, if it's all driven by basically revenue, by either procedures, pharmaceuticals or, or, or em coding, right? So visit the patient coding. You're not going to be able to catch things like talking to me about how to, to manage diabetes. Not even, let's not even get into the whole idea that even if that existed, the information would be wrong, but there, it's really not happening until it's delayed. You know, like the, the diabetes education isn't happening until somebody has a diagnosis of diabetes. But the process of insulin resistance and metabolic dysfunction happened probably 25 years ago. Right. So we're, we're just ignoring the issue, ignoring the early, the early findings, ignoring the early lab value, the labs. We're not getting on people reliably. And it's just because there's no, there's no money to be made in that. And until we change the way that the system is monetarily reimbursed, then I don't think that it's gonna, we're not gonna see that. And that's where this gap opens up. It's the gap that I eventually stepped into which is. Okay. The system has a lot of value. Right. Like, we live in an amazing place. If you and I were to get into a accident in downtown Asheville, we would be taken to Mission Hospital. And they do an amazing job from the trauma perspective, right?

Yeah.

If you have a heart attack, you could be in a cath lab in under 30. I mean, those metrics are unbelievable. So our system has a lot of.

The best in the world. People come from all over the world, have surgery here. Yeah, it's amazing.

But yet we're terrible at preventing these things that we. That we just talked about.

Right.

And that's where that gap opens up. So I think that you have to understand that the system is what it is. So then as a consumer, as. As somebody who has to stand up to be an advocate for themselves and their own healthcare, you have to understand that there is a gap. There's a space where you need to decide if you're going to fill this and optimize yourself or you're going to accept that the level of care that the system is providing for you is adequate. And for me, I know for you, that basic level of care is not adequate. And for everybody that comes to me, that level of care is not adequate. There's a huge gap there. And once you start figuring out what's in that gap, how good you can feel, how good you can function, you realize just how big that gap is.

Yeah, no, it's amazing. And, you know, it's a lot like the financial world. I was. I had a guest on Yesterday, recording on the podcast, and we were talking about how there's incentives in the financial, quote, unquote, financial planning space. And unfortunately, the financial incentives don't always align with what is correct, what is best for the client. And she's a fiduciary. And, you know, there's. There's some unique things there. And I think there's a lot of similarities, you know, between what you do and what, you know, these, these fiduciaries, these rias do in the financial planning space. And she told her story about kind of her eyes opening. What was the moment, doctor. Dr. Lucas, where you said, wait a minute, like, this isn't. This is me. Because you left. I think it's important to point out you left a thriving, successful orthopedic practice. I mean, in orthopedic surgeons, you know, you guys are, you know, close to the top of the food chain, if not the top of the food chain when it comes to surgeons. What, How. How did you come to that decision.

Yeah. I remember the exact moment when I realized, like, I, I gotta. This isn't. I'm not in the right place, you know, and it's one of those, like, unfortunate call scenarios. And, you know, physicians, most physicians, especially in the surgeon space, have to take. Call it a week. We help out, you know, in trauma scenarios and do what we gotta do. So this was an overnight call scenario where there was a patient who was, again, a diabetic patient, had ulcer that got infected. He was what's called septic, meaning that the infection was in his bloodstream. And one of those salvage situations where there was nothing to do other than to amputate his leg. Super sad scenario, you know, hate doing that. But it's just one of those things that we, that we have to do. The. So, you know, I go in, I see the patient and we get him ready for surgery. And this patient ended up getting to know him really well after surgery. And he was a really committed patient to his health. He had been following the dietary guidelines. He had been, you know, eating the way that he was told to eat. He was taking his medications, ascribed. And this is one of those scenarios. I kind of learned this before this in training. I always thought, gosh, if these diabetic patients would just do what we tell them, they'd be fine. And it's just not true. If they do what we tell them in the traditional paradigm of treating diabetes, they'll actually just continue to get worse. And that's why we're told, like, this is an incurable disease and it's progressive, blah, blah, blah. And so this poor guy was at the point, he's young, he's in his 30s. This poor guy was at the point where, you know, we had to cut off his leg. So, you know, we're in the operating room getting him positioned on the table. And for anybody that ever had surgery remembers going into the operating room. You know, the operating room table is really narrow and this patient was very heavy. And so positioning a very heavy patient on a very narrow table with a skeleton crew at 3 o' clock in the morning, you know, trying to get. Just trying to get to the point where we could actually the surgery while this guy is, you know, on the verge of dying from an infection. And so I'm just struggling to move this patient around and, you know, like, literally kind of like, you know, older, deep in his thigh, just trying to position it. And I remember just thinking, right then, I'm not in the right place, right? Like, I have so much interest in how to help this guy avoid being here in the first place.

Yeah.

You know, like, this is, this is the tail wagon, the dog. And I love being the advocate for helping people to understand how to prevent this. I gotta make a change. So that was, that was really it. And that was after I had moved Ash, so I had had thoughts of it before, but that was really one of those moments.

Yeah. No, and it's, I mean, I, I feel like it's, it's kind of where healthcare needs to go and unfortunately know there's a lot of resources that we spend, you know, kind of after the fact when we can't, when we can't do that. And your, your practice, optimal human health, M.D. it, it really, it takes not only the space in that gap where we're crossing from lifestyle into, you know, and before, you know, we get to the point where we have to take, you know, immediate care. Basically where sick care comes in or our traditional healthcare, you know, it comes in, but you have. And not, not to be cliche, but you've literally taken, taken your practice. You know, how you help people go to the next level. And I know this from, from personal experience share a little bit about. Because I know we hear the term concierge medicine. Right. Your concierge medicine. Is that what you do? How are you different than, you know, a traditional doctor? Traditional concierge doctor, where, you know, you're just like, well, I can call my doctor anytime I want, you know, and they're, they're kind of, you know, my, my personal concierge doctor. That's not exactly what you do, is it?

Not exactly. So, you know, we, we call up, we have, we call ourselves a concierge service because that's what people want to hear. And we are, I mean, we are available to our patients, but we don't take calls. So. So in that sense, you know, you call me at three in the morning, I'm not going to answer my phone. And if you send me a chat through our platform, I'm not going to get to it until the next day.

If I call you at 3am Then I should be calling the ER or.

Something, because that's kind of our point. Right. And we have that relationship and it's very clear. Right. Yeah. Just don't expect that I'm going to answer my phone. I went away from orthopedics to get away from call. Right.

Fair enough.

So did I. The only reason. Yeah, not the only reason.

Yeah.

So. So we struggle name because what do you call it? You know, we are optimizing people's health, but that's not really a medical term. It's not really a practice style. So we, but you know, is it a concierge practice? Well, it is, but you know, that could, that doesn't mean anything. That doesn't mean that our, our training is any different. It just means you have better access and it sounds expensive. And then there's, you know, integrative. Are we an integrative practice? Well, yeah, of course, but, but anything could be an integrative practice. They integrate with anything, you know, so you could have a therapy dog walking around and you're an integrative practice. That doesn't mean you do anything different. Are we functional medicine? Well, I did fellowship in functional medicine, so yeah, but functional medicine by itself is kind of a muddy space because you could do a weekend course in functional nutrition, call yourself a functional medicine doctor. So it doesn't necessarily set us apart very far. And then it also puts us in a group with people that don't necessarily have good training. So yeah, we really struggle with that. So we call it health optimization because we are a physician led platform that utilizes health coaches, nutritionists to offer all of the services that we offer. So we call it health optimization. Goes. I don't know what else to call it. And then our bone program is actually called optimal bone health. And so again, it's like, what do we, what do we call that? Well, let's just call it what it is. It's optimal bone health.

Yeah, no, I'd love to get into that, but before we do, I think, you know, a lot of people listening, you know, they're, they're deep in the middle of their careers. And what drove me towards, towards this type of healthcare or this type of program is that I was, I was shifting in my career into a leadership role. And I had two young boys and a lot of stress and I was starting my own business and I was like, wow, I need like, I quit racing bicycles. And as I learned more, I realized I'm, I'm underweight. I need more muscle, I need more, more clarity. I didn't feel great. There's just a bunch of little things. I, I felt good. And people are like, Chris, you're super healthy. You know, you're like, you know, I was like 155 pounds. Like, you're lean. But I wasn't, I wasn't optimal. And when I started down this path, I said, okay, I want to perform at a higher level because I must if I'm Going to be successful in my new role. And I must, if I'm also going to be a good husband and a good father because I need this energy. And I must, if I don't want to look like, you know, my friends that were 23 years older than me that were still riding bikes and they look like, almost like, you know, like a foot away from being crippled because they kind of hobbled around, you know, and kind of hunched over. So, you know, I think a lot of people listening and say, okay, you know, yeah, I'm in that period. I got, I don't sleep well, I'm stressed out, I can't go to the gym enough. You know, my diet's pretty good, but it's not best. Where do you start with somebody like that?

Yeah, it's really important that you figure out where they are, you know, because everybody's at a different level. And even though you didn't feel like you were at your best, I don't know really where you were. This was, you know, seven years ago. I don't really know what your labs would have looked like, but. Yeah, but you know, but you're, you were still at, you are at such a high level. So if we were to throw, you know, the basic stuff at you, you would have been like, like, that's not. I'm already doing all that stuff. You know, my diet was pretty good.

And. Yeah, yeah, but you see, you got.

To figure out where they are. And, and I mean, my own anecdotal story is the same. You know, when I was making this transition, you know, as an orthopedic surgeon, I'd sleep call stress trying to fit too much in. I was doing a fellowship while I was in full time practice. You know, like, I was bad. I was learning about all these important things, following any of them. And so yeah, I felt the same thing, you know, like I don't have the energy, you know, you know, I like to ride bikes too. And I was looking again at my peer group of the people that were riding bikes were like oddly overweight and didn't like really looked sick. And I had a, just was a couple years ago, right. A number of friends, you know, in the medical community, healthy guys dying of heart attack. I mean like, like five in a year.

Wow.

In their 40s. And we're like, man, like should probably figure something out, like what's going on. And so, yeah, so I, I feel the thing for myself, so. For our patients.

Yeah.

Because we work with people like yourself who are very dialed in. But we also work with people who have, you know, outright diabetes, who are controlled, who are, you know, have terrible bone health and then they're 70s, you know, so we have a broad range of people that we work with.

Yeah.

And so the first thing that you do, you agree to work with us, is you sit down with our coaching staff for an hour. We just go through all of those fundamentals. How are you sleeping? What are your sleep behaviors? Like what? Sleep hygiene, you know, what kind of movement are you doing? What do you want to do? You know, how are you eating? We have them do a five day food log. Digital food tracker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So before you sit down with the coach, so the coach can look at all your data and say, well, okay, you think you're eating this way, but this shows this. Let's talk about that. You know, and then we talk about stress, you know, what kind of stress is in your life and how are you mitigating stress? Are you doing any of these things? Then you just. The basics. Okay? So now let's just, let's just find a couple of little things that we can get some quick wins on and get some things moving forward, all the while collecting all of our objective data. And that can be the extensive blood work, all the functional testing that we do, the genetics. So we're letting all of those things cook because that takes a few. And then people are starting to work on the lifestyle stuff. So we really, we figure out where they are, tweak some of those basics. Because I've never met anybody that has purpose, all parameters. And then we, and then we look at the objective stuff and figure out where to go from there.

Yeah, no, and I, look, I've been through it. I've experienced it. I was, I was shocked that my first recommendation was to improve my breathing and how that, how breathing is, is really a key function when it comes to your brain and your, you know, blood pressure and all these different things.

I was like, whoa, it's everybody listening. Take a deep breath.

All right, I'll give you guys 10 seconds. Take a deep breath and, and, and do that and you feel better. And I do. You mentioned genetics. And this is something that I remember being invested in some of the early companies that were sequencing, sequencing the human genome and actually got to drive by when I was in Northern Virginia working up there for Medtronic. At the time, it was, it was a company that ended up doing it, um, which, the name escapes me at the moment. You might feel free to jump in. You might remember the guys in Northern Virginia. It was in. It was. Yeah. I'm trying to remember who sequenced the, the genome here, but yeah, I'll have to, I'll have to look it up as I, as I ask you this question. But now 23andMe like it costs. I forget. I think it was like a billion dollars to sequence the genome the first time and do that. What's it cost for like a genetic test now? Dr. Lucas, do you want access to the exact formula that I use to achieve financial independence? My coaching clients pay $30,000 a year for one on one access to the same information that I've put into my new course. And now you can get the same information and the resources for less than $1,500 when I release my course next month. But I'm giving you a limited time offer for anyone that subscribes to my course before it launches. You'll get $1,000 off the course and you'll get immediate access to our new deal Analyzer sponsor spreadsheet, which includes your path to financial independence, which will tell you when you will be financially free. The spreadsheet alone is 1 99, but you'll also get access to our bonus asset protection course as well. Click on the link below and use the code pre launch. That's one word. Pre launch. All caps to save a thousand dollars today.

Yeah, I mean there are some different versions on the market. You mentioned 23andMe. That's the biggest direct account consumer. I don't know what their price point is now, but it's in the like 100 or 200 range. I mean it's really inexpensive. The product we use is a little bit more expensive. So you know, we're, I think our, I think what we're charging our patients is 8.99, I think is where we are right now. And the reason for that is that it's sequencing is not hard anymore. You know, there are lots of laboratories that can do it. All you have to do is get a cheek swab. It's super easy where the nuance comes in, and this is why we even had to repeat yours when we, when we brought you on board is because it's the algorithm that matters. So that I'll just give people the like the 30 second rundown on what the genetics really means is that when we're looking at genetics, you know, we are, we're talking about all of the, the DNA, right? That makes, that makes everybody. Everybody. Our DNA. Yours and mine, Chris, is almost identical in that 0.1%. That's different. There are all these little things called polymorphisms or the full name is single nucleotide polymorphisms called SNPs for short. The things that we're looking for. So these are modifiable differences between you and me that our lifestyle, nutrition and other things can have an impact on. So when we, when we try to figure out, okay, how do we use this information, it's ultimately the algorithm that the company uses to spit us out a report that matters more so than the actual, you know, the detail. So I can look at somebody's DNA code and I can see, okay, you have, you know, you're an APOE 3 or, or you have an ACE double deletion. Like, like I can see these things. But how that actually then moves onto the clinical position is, is it really has to do with the algorithm and how many of these overlap. Right. And so, so we pay a premium to work with a company that has a updating algorithm and is committed to having the best information possible up to date. And so all of our, you might not even know this. All of our patients have the ability then to log on to the, their portal through our website and then you can access your, your report and it will be constantly updating. So to that you can see update now.

I didn't know it. Click on the update.

Yeah, and it'll actually change your report. And so we can, you can continuously update these over time. Because really, you said that it's relatively new, right? We've only, I think the first was sequenced completely. I could be getting this wrong, but definitely early, early 2000. Right. So like 20 years ago.

And it was Craig Ventner, Solar Genomics was. That was the gentleman I was thinking of. But yeah, yeah, yeah, we're talking like 20 years ago. It's kind of crazy.

And if you think so, how do we know what we know about this? The snips, it's all research based, right. And so a lot of the research just looks at populations to say, okay, well, what, what population has SNP versus this snp. So therefore this SNP is associated with this condition. But that's pretty loose. What we really need to know is, okay, people that have this SNP that are exposed to this thing, this thing happens over time, right? So these prospective studies, that takes time and we haven't had that much time. So the research is going to continue to get better and better. I call it relatively new. And some of them I adhere to relatively strongly. Others I take more with a grain of salt. And so you Go back and look at the research and you're like, well, it's just a population based observation. Like, that's not particularly powerful. So it really is the, the algorithm and then ultimately the, the doc or whomever you're working with that is helping you to then incorporate that into your life. I think that's really where the value is because you can do 23andMe, you get this report and you're like, okay, so what do I do?

Yeah, yeah, it's like a map. And I think what you know is if I would describe it, I'd say, you know, you get this map, but there's a lot of different ways to get there. And what was surprising to me is that when I went through this process the first time, I learned about epigenetics, which is basically, and maybe you should describe it, but it's, it's how your body expresses your genetics based upon your lifestyle and your, and your behaviors. And I didn't, I didn't know this, but your genetics are not your destiny. You can affect that. So if you're sitting there listening and you're saying, well, yeah, my, my family has, you know, has history of heart attacks or, you know, isn't, is it my family, there's a history of Alzheimer's. And I said, well, wait, what can I do? My grandfather was in a memory care unit at the time. And I said, well, geez, he's a healthy guy. He was still healthy physically, but his mind was failing him. And I said, well, what am I going to do to see if, if that's, if I'm at risk of that and how can I prevent that? So do you mind sharing a little bit more about epigenetics and, and how you help your patients, you know, address those.

So that's kind of what I was describing is this concept of like the, in that 0.1%, the morphisms, they are changeable by what we do, what we eat, how we live, the stress in our lives, our toxic exposures, et cetera. Now, we still don't know details of those things, but we know some of them pretty clearly. So I mentioned APOE earlier. So this is one of the really clear dementia ones. Whereas if you have the risk, which is the version called allele, so if you have the risk, allele of ApoE, and the higher, there's a medium and a higher risk, if you have the high risk one, it is almost a percent increase in the risk of developing.

You say 300%.

300%. That's a big Deal. Right.

Yeah.

And so knowing that you have that is important. And the earlier you know, the better because we know, you know, dementia, as we talked about earlier, this thing that develops over time and we're, we're terrible at monitoring for it and preventing it. If you know that you have this risk and you know that one of the things you can do to help reduce this risk is to abide by the things that are to working epigenetically to just turn down the risk of this thing. So for apoe, for example, it's reducing inflammation. It's, you know, limiting your saturated fat in your diet.

You know, sometimes, by the way, I love pork and bacon, man, you kill me when you're like, can't eat that.

I know, I know. But we know that, you know, for people that have A four, it's inflammatory and that's where you get that general recommendation, like don't eat saturated fats inflammatory. Well, actually not for most people. You know, I'm an APO3 3 and for me, I tolerate saturated fat really well and it's actually more of an anti inflammatory thing.

So you're just bragging, dude, stop.

Sorry. You know, but I got, I got plenty of other genetic things that we could talk about. That one is just. That one I like. So. But we know that we can turn that down for you. So, you know, if you go back and look in your family's history, but it's, it's passed down so likely that APOE 4 existed and that was part of it. And so a quote unquote healthy diet for me is not healthy diet for you.

Wow. Can we stop for a second and just repeat that? So, yeah, you just said a healthy diet for you is not a healthy diet for me. Or. Right. Vice versa. But that is, I think a lot of people don't realize that, you know, we hear, oh, you should be a vegan or a vegetarian or eat low carbs or low fat. I got a buddy and he eats steak every night. And like no sugar and no carbs and he like, all his blood work just turned around. It's phenomenal. Now, whereas if I did that, it would be a total disaster.

Yeah, your cholesterol would go up, your inflammatory markers would go up. Now, not to say you can't eat red meat. Excuse me? You know, you shouldn't eat ribeye every night, you know, so you can eat red meat. It's just gotta be, it's gotta be lower fat because the fat in, in red meat has a higher saturated fat content. Yeah. So it is, it's really important that we, you know, when we look at nutrition, all of our patients are on an, on a different eating plan. And that's where the coaching is critical because you could go to a doc that does work like this. You meet with them once and you walk away with this. Usually this massive report like, like we give to, you know, we're guilty of that. But then what do you do with it, you know, after that point and.

How do you implement?

That's where having great coaches that have a really good understanding of nutrition and follow up and food tracking, like, it is so important not to say you have to do that forever, but to do it long enough where, okay, you're comfortable with what you can eat, how much of different things are in different things. And it's even, you know, it's a step beyond. People talk about tracking, you know, food and tracking macros. Like, it's even a step beyond that. Like, you and I could actually eat exact same macros and have a very different diet. Right. And, and if we were to then swap that, you know, like on, you know, my fitness pal or chronometer or whatever look the same, but it's going to treat us very differently. So there's, there's, there's nuance on top of nuance when it comes to what you're eating.

Yeah, no, it's, it's amazing. And really, not only is it amazing, it's very empowering because you, you know, the way I like to describe it is now, you know, like, you know the right path. It's like when you pull up the map and Google Map says, well, hey, based on the traffic today and where you're going, this is the path you should take, which might be different than another path. And it's just, it's perfect because you don't have to keep trying stuff and throwing stuff against the wall. And then how do you track these things, Dr. Lucas? So, you know, we go through the genetic path, we look at the lifestyle modifications. How do you work with patients on an ongoing basis to make sure, you know, just like with Google Maps, it updates in real time. How do you update the plan for your patients so they know they still are on the right track and they maybe have to kind of bob or weave here or there.

Yeah, so our, the kind of, the base cadence involves every six months of blood work. So we get this extensive blood panel every six months. Then it's almost the same for everybody. We tweak it a little bit based on individual needs. But for the most part, we're getting this big blood panel every six months, functional testing. We can talk about what that means, but this additional testing we can do sort of as needed, depending on, you know, unique situations. But I think every six months is a good cadence for a blood panel.

Yeah.

We're also then having our coaching team work with you. We're having them check in with you. At minimum, I want them to check in with you quarterly. Just don't want to talk to coaches. I don't have time. That's fine. You know, as long as you're heading the right direction, let me know. But are. I want people, especially if they have a goal, you know, of weight loss or of muscle gain or performance or, you know, something where they really need help on a regular basis. I want them talking to the team every week. You know, I want to know how it's going. I want you tracking your food. I want somebody looking at your. At your data. We can also. Anywhere. You and I are both wearing wearables. Right. So you can also share wearable data. You know, oura ring, how's your sleep? What is your whoop data look like? What are your recovery scores? You know, all of those things are helpful, but not everybody has them. Everybody wants them, so it's. It's all individualized. Yeah.

You know, on that note, what are some of your. Your favorite technologies, aside from the genetics testing? What are some of your favorite technologies that complement what your practice does?

Yeah, I think I'll just start with the testing side, which is, you know, we do the genetics, and then for most people, we're doing some kind of functional testing. So looking at the gut. Gut function, gut permeability, looking at adrenal function, you know, do you have adrenal fatigue? Can you make cortisol? Are you making too much? Not enough. You know, those things make a big difference in what our recommendations are going to be.

Yeah.

From a tech side, though, I love, you know, the wearables we talked about. We're both wearing an or, like you just showed. You know, I have one on, too. I have my whoop strap sitting over here. You know, the. The Garmin watch. You know, Apple. Apple watch can do so many cool things. The bio strap, like, there's so much cool technology.

That's amazing.

I think all that stuff is really helpful. There is a balance. You know, you can do too much. You can get overwhelmed with the data. I've actually backed off. I don't have my whoop strap on. I haven't been wearing it for A while. And I've just, I've really gone to just aura data right now. My, my workouts are very consistent, so I'm not really changing any of that. So I don't really need to measure it. So anyway, I love, I love that wearable data. It just really helps us to, to dial people in. But then for me it's really like the technology and the testing has just really changed over the last 10 years.

Yeah, no, it's amazing just to see some of those iterations over just the last five years in my case or so. And look, this is, this might get a roll, an eye roll from some people, but you know, I race bicycles for, for, well, geez, I started 30 years ago at this point and Lance Armstrong was asked what's the most important piece of equipment, you know, that, that you use on a daily basis. And some might think the bike, others might think it's a needle. No joke. All jokes aside, but he said the scale and it's like, that's not a sophisticated piece of equipment. But my point is, you know, if, if you're measuring something, you're, and you're tracking it. A lot of these things, as I've come to learn, are very complimentary. Now some might be listening, you might be thinking, well that's great. You know this, like I don't live there in Asheville, like, like you guys do. I'm interested in this. It's probably super expensive. Like who do you work with? How do you work with people? Do you work with people that don't live here locally?

Dr. Lucas? Yeah, I don't know what percentage our clientele is, but I can tell it's very small. And so we, we launched this company in the beginning of the pandemic and our intent was to build out an office and offer cool modalities and that would be part of it. But we just launched it as a telehealth company because at that point in time nobody wanted to go into an office space. And we haven't really found a compelling reason to go back. So with the changes in health care laws, we're able to establish patient care. I myself am licensed in 10 states. I just brought a partner on who's licensed in all 50. So we can see patients everywhere in the United States. So we can do everything over telehealth for things that, that need an in person touch. We have relationships with other, you know, other people or we just help you, somebody locally that can fit. So those would be things like personal training, you know, like if you need a trainer to work with you, you know, then we find somebody locally and help you do that. But yeah, everything to do, I mean, can be done through telehealth. It's, it's really remarkable.

Yeah. And look, I know, I know you personally Now, Dr. Lucas, you got, you gotta, you gotta, you got a family, your wife has a large business that I know you're, you're active in as well. You know what, what are some advice to people that, you know, are at this phase in our lives and they're like, well, this is interesting, I might look into it. But what are some basic lifestyle choices that you think are applicable to somebody listening that might not be ready to, to reach out to you and learn about this?

Yeah, you know, I, I get this question a lot and I think that if you're looking at the 80, 20. Right. What's going to be the biggest impact for, for not for the most minimal thing. It really comes down to the lifestyle. You know, there are so many people that I talk to and then the program, we kind of learn more about their lifestyle and I'm like, like, shoot, you don't even need to go through the rest of the program. We're just going to like start here, you know, and so. Excuse me. So the, just the basic, the, the four pillars of, of health, if you will. So I talked about sleep, nutrition, exercise and stress mitigation. So kind of dialing in each of the four things. And of, of the four of them, I would argue that sleep is the most important.

Yeah.

And so if you can, you know, make bake time for yourself, commit to being consistent with your sleep schedule, make an 8 to 9 hour window to sleep every night, weekday weekend, doesn't matter. And then just like nail all the sleep hygiene stuff and we can talk about those things. Excuse me, but do that. And if you're not already, that was. Most people aren't, especially in our space. Um, you're gonna feel a tremendous amount better. And then the next, I would say most important thing is doing some kind of movement. I'm a huge advocate for resistance training. Obviously it depends on your goals.

Um, but I can see your, I can see your traps from here, so I can.

Yeah. Thanks. So I, yeah, I mean I've, I've put on main shoot over the last, I don't know how long it's been now, less than a year. I mean I've put on almost 20 pounds of arguably almost all muscle. So I'm in a big anabolic phase because I was, that was A lean bike rider too, right? Dancer turned, you know, turned, you know, bike rider. So I was lean, lean, lean. But what I realized is from a longevity perspective, metabolic health perspective, having more muscle mass matters. And I'm in my 40s. Once I get beyond that, it gets really hard to develop muscle mass. So I decided, hey, you know, I'm going to get myself to about £210, stay relatively lean, and then we'll take that into my, you know, 90s hundreds and beyond versus my 180 pounds where it's already pretty darn lean. There's not, there's just not a lot of room to go. So, yeah, so I think, yeah, resistance training is huge. Depending on your goals, you know, how to mix that up and depending on what you're eating, that could also be a massive target. And most people are eating garbage. So there's a lot of room for improvement. There's.

Yeah. And look, I, you, I haven't put on £20 in the past year, but since I, I pulled back on my riding, I put on five pounds. You know, you've helped me do here. Even dropped my body weight or my body fat as well. The, the sleep. I'm gonna put a discount code for Oura Ring if Anybody's interested is Dr. Lucas and I were both showing and then we have a special code, next level, all caps. Next level, all caps. And we're gonna do 25 off genetics for new patients for your practice as well. Do you mind sharing a little bit about that, Dr. Lucas, and how listeners can get in touch with you if they're interested in learning more about your program?

Yeah, absolutely. So the best way to get in touch with us is just look at our website, optimalhum.com there's a form you can contact us to get set up with a discussion with one of our team members. Mention that code, next level, all caps. Like that and they'll get you a discount off of genetics and you'll learn more about how, how we do what we do and how you can get started with us with that.

Awesome. I'm going to put all these links in the show notes. If you're watching here on YouTube, they're right down below. Or if you're listening, you can check out the notes in your podcast. Dr. Lucas, I've really enjoyed getting to know you, working with you. You've definitely helped me, as I mentioned, bring my health to the next level. Thanks for sharing your wisdom with our audience today.

Yeah, thank you, Chris. It's been great.

Absolutely. Hey, Chris, here again I hope you found this episode valuable. Now I have one more thing to gift you. We have a page for my coaching clients where you can get a free copy of my book as well as much more from previous guests on the show. Just check out nextlevelincome.com coaching to get a free copy of my book, audiobook and much more. I'll send you a copy of my book and cover all the shipping costs as a thank you for listening to the podcast. Also, please like share and take just 90 seconds to give us a rating on Apple Podcasts.