Ep 146: The Power of Listening with Nick Leja

I think kind of that, like, systematic approach to solving problems. Like, I love logic puzzles. If I could be like a full time engineering student and just get paid off my gpa, that'd be like the dream job because I could just solve problems all day.

Welcome to the Next Level Income show, where it's our goal to take your income, your investments and your life to the next level. I'm your host, Chris Larson. If you haven't yet, get a copy of our book for free at our website, nextlevelincome.com. that's www.nextlevelincome.com. just click on the book link and I'll even send you a copy if you put your address in. On today's show, we have Nick Lejev. Nick is a serial entrepreneur and he's an author. He currently owns businesses in six different industries with more than 60 locations across the country generating annual revenue in excess of $50 million per, per year. While Nick is an engineer by training, like myself, he's written a fantastic book, first in a series of books that he's writing and he talks about communication. Today, Nick joins us to talk about his first book. Nick, welcome to the show.

Thank you. I'm happy to be here.

Yeah, man, I'm, I'm so excited. This is the first time I spoke to you since you became a father.

I know, I know. It's, it's been a crazy three and a half weeks, so I've learned a lot. So it's. But it's been fun so far. Definitely some challenges. Overall, it's been a pretty fun ride.

Yeah, dude. Well, you were, you were just, you're just getting started. You're like on the roller coaster as it's beginning to tick up. And all the fun, all the fun comes later. I, My older son, Hope, be 13 here, and I just, I just took him on my favorite mountain bike ride here in the mountains near Asheville the other day for the first time. You know, I've been waiting years to do that, so.

Awesome. Did you like it?

Oh, dude, it was great. It was great. So, yeah, you got a lot of, A lot of fun in front of you. This is, this is the hardest part of being a parent, what you're doing right now, in my opinion, so. Okay, thanks. But hey, congratulations. And let's share a little bit about your background here with the audience before we we dive into your, your, your, your, your current book, your new book, and, you know, all the things that you're doing here in business.

Awesome. Yeah, Well, I guess I Could start. I got my electrical engineering degree at Kettering University in Flint. And then I graduated and at the end of 2008. So during the. Right. When the Great Recession getting started.

Oh, that's great.

I know. Great time. I was one of the few of my few peers who actually had a job offer at the time. And I put in my notice the day after I graduated and. Cause I wanted to be an entrepreneur. That's always been a really big thing. My dad gave me the book Rich dad, poor dad when I was a kid and kind of talking about the cash flow quadrant. And I'm like, I want to get to the I quadrant. I want to be the investor. So. So I always knew that I wanted to be an entrepreneur and I became a franchise consultant. So as a franchise and I represented different franchises and I worked with people who wanted to open their own business and kind of align them with one that met their business goals and lifestyle goals and financial goals. So through that I met John Chesney. He's the founder of Disc Replay, which is like a brick and mortar video game store. So we buy and sell video games, movies and electronics. And I'm a pretty intense game nerd myself. So that was right up my alley. And during the Great Recession, it was a great business because people needed to sell stuff, get cash to pay their bills, and then they also wanted a really cheap entertainment. So we actually, you know, knock on wood, did really well through the recession. And I just loved it. I loved owning my own business, so I never looked back. So I opened up Plato's Closet. That was the next franchise I got into, which is just like Disc Replay, but we buy and sell clothes and accessories for teens and young adults. And I love that brand a lot. And I kept opening up more. And then I met a business partner in Illinois named Chad, and he owned a couple of European wax centers. So that was my next brand that I got into. European wax center were and mortar store. We do body waxing services like Brazilians, eyebrow waxes, things like that. That was pretty fun. And then we came across my salon suite. So we built beats and we went into stylists and estheticians. And my latest one is superior fence and rail. So we install residential fences. So my first non brick and mortar. Sure. That we're going into. So we opened our Chicagoland location last August. And it's off to a pretty good start.

Amazing. You know, we have, you know, engineering background. Engineering background. We got some engineers that. Listen, I. You know, for me, people are like, why'd you get an engineering degree, Chris. Like you didn't, you didn't use it, you went to sales. And you know, I always thought that the process that you go through as an engineer and really the thought process, right, like, how do you solve a problem? You make assumptions. You solve the problem, you see what the result is. You iterate and then you do it again. Sometimes you change your assumptions. And I think to me that's where like this huge amount of value came out of my, my education. And it's interesting because you look and you see like even what happened like during the pandemic, people, you know, make wrong assumptions and then they try to solve it and they get, they get this result. It's like, well, why is my result wrong? I'm doing all the right things. You don't really understand, you know, that maybe, maybe they had the wrong assumptions in the first place or they're not used to correcting themselves and going back.

Through or the landscape has changed and yeah, you got need to be made.

Yeah. And you gotta, you gotta go back and do that, I guess. Tell us how you've used that process in your education, Nick, to be successful in business because you've clearly, you know, gone through, had to use different assumptions in different businesses, different processes, you know. What do you think has helped for your engineering background to make you successful in business?

I think kind of that like, systematic approach to solving problems. Like, I, I love logic puzzles. If I could be like a full time engineering student and just get paid off my gpa, that'd be like the dream job because I could just solve problems all day. So I love solving problems. I love, and I love learning new things and I love solving problems forward and backwards. So like at every single test I would take, I would solve the problem forward. So if it says, here's, you know, X and Y solve for Z, I would solve for Z. And then I would redo the problem starting with Z and Y and solve for X. So I'd always solve it forward and back. So I applied that a lot.

Was that as a check? Was that as a check to make sure it was done properly? Yeah, yeah, it was a check to.

Make sure it was done properly. But also like, I learned just to kind of look at the inverse. Like a lot of people, I mean, myself included, oh, how do I be successful? Or how do I solve this business problem? But they don't typically ask the question, well, how do I fail? And so I like to ask that question also when I'm doing this, like, what does it look like, what does failure look like? And what are the things that I shouldn't do? So, like, for example, in a business, you know, a lot of people and they say, what's the most important thing in business? The customers. For me, you know, I'm like, okay, well then how can I fail at this business? And it's if I have a team that doesn't treat the customers properly. So I was like, as a business owner, I kind of view it my biggest. My biggest focus should be the team. Like, yes, at the end of the day, customer service and the customer experience is like the end all be all for businesses, but like a business. But I'm a business owner, not a business. So for me, as the business owner, I need to be taking care of my team, kind of treating them like the customers and creating that. So kind of looking. Every time I look at a situation, I kind of play it out, you know, forward and play it. So that's one thing, but also just, I guess just the love of problem solving. So sometimes when I feel people get into a problem and they get into A, it's frustrating and it's. It's aggravating, which then you get into like a negative mood and you kind of walk away or whatever. But for me, it's kind of like, oh, I. I did A and B and I expected C. That didn't happen. Why didn't it happen? And then I kind of get curious about it. And then when I finally learn why is, oh, I forgot about variable D. That's like, exciting and motivating and for me, because I feel like I expanded my worldview. So I guess whenever I run into problems instead of, it's like, you know, darn, this sucks. It's okay. What am I not aware of? And it's kind of like a little treasure hunt to solve the rubric, I guess.

Yeah, I think I love it. I mean, I think the same way, right? Everything's kind of an equation. There's variables involved. And you look at all those. Some things are constant, but some things are changing. And that's one of the reasons I love sales. I got to work with surgeons most of my career, doctors. I was in the or. And you, you could have everything figured out, but there's people involved, and you have to interact with those personalities and make sure, you know, you're. You're being sensitive to that. And you, you're doing the same thing. You just mentioned, like, your employees. Right? So you have these businesses. A lot of people are like, wait a minute, you're an engineer, Nick, you solve problems. Isn't what's been the heart of pieces? Has it been working with the people? Has it been doing that? What have you found to be the most challenging or the most enjoyable when it comes to the people side of the business?

I think the biggest thing I struggled with was I used to like, if we imagine that we have a bus and I'm like, okay, I want to get the bus from point A to point B. So I'm going to go recruit a bunch of people to get on the bus and help me get the bus from point A to point B. But deciding to get to point from A to B was my decision. And I come up with all the policies and procedures. I try to get people on board, I try to do rah rah motivational meetings, kind of get them to follow it. And it was, it just I constantly. Things wouldn't happen properly. So do like checklists to check the checklist. So then employee supervisors check those. And it was just challenging. I've kind of learned now it's better instead of saying, okay, I've got a bus that want to go from point A to point B. It's like a bus. I want to get awesome motivated people on the bus and then together as a team, decide where do we want to go, do we want to go to point B or maybe we should go to point C. You know, maybe I think we should go to point B. But my team, who collectively is more intelligent than I am, decides he's the place to go. And I found that when doing it with a more collaborative effort like that, they get a lot more buy in and like, and big, I guess, missing puzzle pieces. I used to then focus so much on the how like the methods like, okay, these are the open procedures, these are the closing procedures. Talking more so of like in a retail business. And again, that's just challenging to like. It's just challenging to push forward. It's like a constant grind. But and this is just the past couple of years, I've really realized the power centers, you know, instead of doing all that, it's like, okay, well let's take a percentage of the gross profits we put into a pool and all the supervisors share on that. Now how do we maximize gross profit? So now it's not me coming up with open closed procedures, then begging and pleading for you guys to do them, but it's like, what do you guys think the open procedure should be? Should we even have them? Should we do this? So I think you Know, it's getting the right people on the team and then collaboratively deciding where to go. And then the most important thing is getting the incentives right. Like incentives drive results is one of like the iron rules of nature, like Charles Munger's comments on that and a lot of his speeches and writings. But like, the incentives are just absolutely, absolutely key because if you get the people with the right incentives now, your job is not managing them, it's just standing out of their way and not getting in their way and then supporting them in every way you can, which is a lot more enjoyable and it's a lot less of the tedious work.

That's, that's a great point. You know, coming from a sales background, you know, when, whenever management, you know, be on these advisory committees and they say, well, well, hey, you know, you guys, you salespeople are doing this, we want you to do this and, and say, well, you're not paying us to do that. Like, well, it's the right thing to do. Well, then you should, you should align compensation, you should align incentives, as you're saying, Nick, with the right thing to do with those things. And you know, we're human beings a lot of times, you know, we're complex, but when we make our decisions, we're pretty simple. It's like, hey, is this gonna, is this gonna reward us? Right? You know, I'm hungry. Yeah, I'm hungry. Am I gonna have, am I gonna get food? I'm thirsty. You know, I'm drinking, drinking water, right? It's like I'm, I'm at my job, I want to perform well. How do I know I perform well? I get paid to, to do my job, right. And if you're not paying me to do something well, I should be doing something else probably. And then it's very confusing. You know, even if it's not a conscious level, I think that that point just can't be underscored enough.

Right. And one thing you just mentioned there about aligning incentives like another aha. Moment I had a year or two ago is that I used to have like my supervisors had one incentive plan, then the managers had a slightly different one and the district manager had a slightly different one. Then, you know, y. I have the profits, so now I've just made it. So the supervisors have an incentive plan, the managers get a percentage of the Supervisor's bonus, the DMs get a percentage of all of their managers bonuses. So now truly is rolling in the same direction. And it's so simple. It's not this complicated spreadsheet with a bunch of variables. It's like, okay, if I make my supervisors make more money, I'm gonna make more money. And just like the owner, now that my managers have taken at all the stores over the business, I mean like the last couple of years we've had record breaking years. And it was, I can almost narrow it down to like the month when I switched our incentives to when it was simple, not complicated, not like 10 different variables going in together. And then everybody else is, you know, up the food chain, so to say is like, it's all just a percentage of the people that reports. And it's just been great.

I love that. I read a book when I was in business school by, and I'm forgetting the name of the book, but the gentleman that wrote it owned the biggest Cadillac dealership in the country. And shocker, it was in Texas, right? Biggest, biggest car dealership, actually I think was the biggest car dealership in the world. Biggest Cadillac dealership, Biggest car dealership. And you know, he wrote this book and people said, well, how did you do it? They said, well, everybody's paid on commission. And it's, it's not exactly that, but it's what you just said, Nick. The salespeople were paid a percentage of sales. Their managers were paid a percentage of sales. Those washing the car were paid those, the mechanics and the service side of the business. So they all knew, hey, Nick's coming in, he's bringing his, his Cadillac in and if we treat him right, he's probably going to come back and he's going to get his car serviced here, he's going to buy a new Cadillac here. He's going to refer his friends here and he said it's very simple when you align everybody and incentivize them in the right way. And that's. I want to. You mentioned getting everybody on the bus, but I really love you. You were, we were conversing here before the show and this is the second time this has come up today in podcast. But earlier today I was talking with a good friend, Vic Rya, who was on the podcast here just a couple weeks ago and he was talking about the British rowing team and he said they went from last to first in four years between Olympics by asking one simple question. It was like, how can we row this boat faster? Now, I love what you said, Nick. You said there are three buckets of team members. You got your rowers, your watchers and your sinkers. Tell us about kind of that revelation that you came to when you said, okay, you know, who do I, who do I focus on? How do I, how do I get this boat to go faster? Is it the rowers, the watchers or the sinkers?

Yeah. So when I started off managing I, I was under the mindset. A lot of people have told me it's like, okay, you've got your A, B and C employees. Like you know, the A employees are your rowers are the ones who are moving the ship forward. Your B employees are your watchers. They're not really moving you forward, but they're not really pulling you back. They're just there. And then there's the C employees or the sinkers who are actively kind of sinking the ship back, creating toxic toxicity and yada, yada, yada. So my initial mindset was okay, well the row, what they're doing. So they don't, I don't need to handhold them so I can lead them be and the watchers, you know, I'll get to them in a little bit. But more importantly I need to get, I need to work on the sink. So all my time went to the sinkers or the seam and trying to like get them up to become rows and watchers and that's just like a big, it's really hard to motivate somebody who's not self motivated. It's like a constant, it's like filling up with the hole in the bottom. Like you have to constantly keep filling with motivation. So, so now I've kind of switched it. I spend all of my time with the rowers and I give them the most time and attention. Not managing them, not telling them what they need to do, but really asking them ideas. Hey, how can we, how can we like, like you just said, how can we move the ship faster like that. That is a good conversation. My time with and has a lot of utility versus someone who's not rowing. And it's just like, you know, is, or sinking is actively trying to like poke holes in the ship and say hey, stop doing that. That, that's just like a waste of time. I'm, I'm solving a problem that should be there.

Right.

So anyway, I spent all my time with the rowers. If I have any time left, I spend with the sink or I'm sorry, the watchers. And then if I have any time after that I'm probably not doing my job properly, then I would work, you know, with the sinkers and kind of just like a quick clarifying thing. Like I know sinkers kind of has like A negative, potential negative connotation. And I'm not trying to imply that people general are sinkers, but it might just be there. It's just a role mismatch. So perhaps I don't like dealing with customers, but I'm working the front desk at a retail job, so they might be a sinker at their retail job. It's not their sink or be human being, but it's just in that job. Me personally, I am not good at sales. I hate sales. So I would be a sinker if I was on a sales team because it's just, it's not me. I don't like especially cold calling. It's just not my set. So I would be a sinker on that team. But I could. I feel like one of the fastest growers on another team. So. Yeah, and another thing that I've a great point. Yeah. And, and with the sinkers. So it's, it's again, it's not that they're bad people or they're bad or they have low work ethic, but it's just they're not a good fit either with the culture or the job or there's something that's not clicking. So first I look inward as to my manager and okay, do they have the tools they need? Do they have the training they need? Have I communicated expectations clearly? Like, I always look inward first. Am I doing something that's causing them to not stay on this team? But once I've checked all those boxes, they're still not there. Now I'm like, okay, I'm not happy with them on the team. They're not happy with them on the team. So, like every day I let this go by is like a day that I'm robbing from finding a different team that they're actually happy at, that they could excel at. So if I keep them on too long, I'm kind of being selfish. I'm really just kind of avoiding the confrontation just to kind of comfortable with myself. But I'm really taking away time from them to find, you know, what, what they're after. So, yeah. Knows a mouthful, but that's kind of how I've shifted a little bit with how I, how I focus on my team.

Well, it's amazing and I think it's a terrific segue because what you're. You're talking about is empathy, right? You have this empathy towards people and it's, you know, that I think to me, in a leadership role, that's the biggest challenge. You have to look and say, wait, A minute. Not everybody's like me. I can't. It's not. It's not a problem to be solved necessarily. You know, it is, but it's not. It's not a simple equation. You have to say, wait a minute. Maybe. Maybe I have to change the assumptions. Maybe I have to change up the things that are happening here. And I think that that's a fantastic point, you know, when it comes to, you know, working with teams, aside from aligning incentives and figuring out where to spend your time. But it's also. Are the right. Are the right people in the right seats? Right. To go back to that analogy. But next, I feel like we've taken. This has been. This has been wonderful so far, but we're having you on to talk about your book here, the Dark Fairy, Nick. And thank you for sending me a copy. I remember when you're telling me during our first conversation, we got introduced that you're writing a book, and I was. I was really excited to read it. And then when you told me what it was about, I'm like, wait a minute. You're kind of confusing me because you're an engineer and you wrote this, what appears to be, like, a fictional story called the Dark Fairy, but it's a fictional nonfiction story. So tell the audience a little bit about what the Dark Fairy is about.

Yeah, so the Dark Fairy, it's a short story, and it's a fictional tale about a fairy, Iris. And I don't want to get any plot spoilers here, but basically there's a problem in their village, and she has to solve the. And it's a book on list, so it's very heavy. It teaches the reader how to listen, the importance of listening, and why we should listen. I feel like in schools, we're always taught, oh, you have two ears and one mouth for a reason. We don't get too detailed beyond that. You know, we're told that we should listen more, but, like, we're not really explained how to listen. So, like, is listening just being quiet and, like, physically hearing the sound waves come on one's voice? Like, no, it's a lot more than that. And it's very challenging to do it. It sounds easy, but there's so many times in conversations when I'll hear somebody ask a question A, and then the other person responds by answering question B, and then, like, nobody's really kind of satisfied with that thing, and a lot of people don't even notice it. So I. I feel being able to listen and learning how to listen And I'm not going to say I've mastered it because again, it's challenging, but I've gotten pretty proficient at it. A lot of my success has been attributed to that because I can genuinely, truly listen to people and then like have them feel understood. You can solve root problems versus proximate problems and then you establish such an intense level trust. There are so many people that I talk to on a daily basis and I can just tell they're not listening to me. They're waiting for me to stop talking so then they can interject their opinion or whatever. And it's just, it's very frustrating. So anyways, this is my first book. I'm writing a series of books or these short stories that are fictional in nature, but they have a non fictional message. And I was just thinking what's like the most important skill in my toolbox that I feel led to my success? You know, both personally, financially, whatever your definition of it is. And listening is by far my number, the number one skill that I feel is most important.

Yeah. And coming from a sales background and also being a problem solver, I, I have to work on this constantly. And if I, if I ran and grabbed my wife here, she'd probably vouch for that. She'd say, yeah, Chris, you need to listen, do a better job. But it's, it's so important, it's so important to the success in, in any relationship, you know, referring to my marriage here. But also when we, you know, when we, when we talk about like as we're talking about kind of in a business sense. So first off, if you're listening today, I read Nick's book in less than an hour. It's a very enjoyable read. I like the story. But then what surprised me and I thought this was fantastic, Nick, you finished the story and then you actually have tips like a how to guide in the back. And this is what I think is fantastic because you read the story and you're like, okay, this makes a lot of sense, but. But then you actually give examples. You almost have a playbook in the back, Nick, about how to improve your listening skills. And it's all very concise.

Yeah, a big reason why I like doing the story aspect because I feel like we remember stories better than facts. And I read all the time and most of what I read is nonfiction. Of them are like three 400 page tombs just full of fact after fact after fact after fact. And my favorite part of reading those books is sometimes they'll tell a little bit of a story. As an analogy. And that vividness, it sticks with us and I like that. So the story aspect is kind of to help it. Help it stay top of mind. But then like, that little how to playbook at the end, and I tried it as concise as possible. I probably edited that like 20 times, removing every unnecessary word just to, like, cut to the chase. So, but. But that kind of goes more in depth of all the different thoughts that I have on the topic. But I think the story is what helps keep it to mind. So it's kind of like, oh, okay. Yep. I kind of feel like, you know, Kayden is the name of the dark. It's like, okay, I kind of feel like, like the dark fairy right now. Like, we're not being heard. So can I just get this off my chest and just have you listen for a second? And I've done this, like, with my team now. And it's that kind of, like, language to use. It really helps communicate more efficiently and more effectively and just gives people like, like words to use. Because people might feel like they're not being heard, like being listened, and they'll feel like a discomfort, but they don't really know how to articulate that. And then during a fluid conversation, it's. It just passes them by and they don't want to act.

But.

So that was part of the reason why I wanted to give, like, the story aspect of it to kind of help people communicate with one another, assuming they both read it.

Yeah. And you have some terrific things in there. Just kind of like mirroring people's language to make sure that, you know, you. You not only understand them, but also give them a chance to clarify. And I think you went, you mentioned talking about how, you know, those moments really allow you to understand what's happening, you know, kind of behind the scenes. Because we may hear one thing, we may. We hear it through our lens. And the other thing that really stood out to me, that I stopped and it just kind of digested it for a moment and also reflected a little bit on my own kind of actions was. And think, this is great. You say, respond to emotion with emotion, respond to logic with logic. Can you expand on that just a little bit?

Yeah. This was another kind of aha moment that I had. You know, being an engineering background, loving problem solving, I usually default to logic. So like, someone, an employee would come to me and they'd be venting and, oh, this, this is this. I'm like, okay, so we're going to do a do. Then we're do C, then we're going to do D. And I could just see on their face, it's kind of like they weren't like really satisfied with that. Like they couldn't argue with my logic. My logic was sound and they knew deep down it probably would solve the problem. But they just seemed like kind of unsettled. I knew that they were unsettled. We didn't really know why. So with responding if someone's being emotional, like if I'm emotionally venting to you. Before we get to the problem solving standpoint, it's really important that you acknowledge my emotions simply by repeating or rephrasing what I just told you back to me and labeling my emotions. So like. So Nick, it sounds like you're trying to think of a quick example. Top of my head. But so Nick, so it sounds like you're really frustrated because caught up in a traffic jam, which now you're gonna get home, you don't have time to eat, or you don't have time to make dinner and eat, which is gonna rob you some time with your kid. And then you wanna watch a movie. It just feels like you're just overwhelmed and every day just grind and just makes you wanna pull your hair out. Is that, is that accurate? Is that kind of what you just said? And then to me it's like, yes, exactly. Like that's how I feel. Or I'd be like, no, it's not. It's not just that. It's really like. It's. Ever since I got this promotion at work, I've just been like, just so busy, which is, you know, so I don't, I don't get to leave the office now until 6:30 and yada yada. It's like, oh, so it sounds like really it's more of you're feeling overworked by this job promotion that you just got, which is then causing you to spend less time with your family. Is that kind of more of the root of it? It's like, yes, exactly. That's it. So by, by acknowledging the emotions and kind of trying to understand them, it, it helps one, make sure that you understand what I'm saying. But two, it also makes sure that I even understand what I'm saying. Because sometimes when I'm saying things, I think I'm identifying the root problem. But when somebody repeats it back to me and I hear, I hear those words back, I'm like, well, no, I guess that's not exactly right. This. So it kind of helps me clarify my own thoughts. And then once we get to that point, once it comes to that understanding, then, then I would start getting logical. Like once I feel like I've been hurt.

Yeah.

So I mean, do you have any advice on what I should do? Or, like, I mean, I don't know if I should ask my job or my boss, my old job back or whatever. So now once I'm logical, it's like, okay, well, let's, let's talk about the different options. We could do A, or we could do B. We could do C. Let's talk about the pros and cons, however you do it. But if you shortcut that, that emotional response, it's just, it's kind of like settling thing. And it's like we're solving the problem too quickly. And I'm just, to me, I'm like, okay, you know, Chris, you're solving a problem, but I'm not even sure that you even understand 100% what the problem. I don't even know that I even understand hundred percent what the problem is. So it's like, so, yeah, I guess we're solving it, but like, I'm not, I'm not, not sure we're solving the real issue. So that, that's kind of by emotion, with emotional logic.

With logic, yeah. And I think it's fantastic, right, because if you're, if you're solving the wrong problem, you might do all the steps, right? Kind of going back to the beginning. We were talking about being an engineer and the answer might be correct, but your assumptions were wrong. And you're just, you can keep going and keep going. It's like, well, great, I'm good at solving problems, but I'm actually not getting anywhere. And what I like is, you know, there's a lot of times you're frustrated or you don't understand how somebody's thinking. You're like, that doesn't make any sense to me. Like, I don't know. Pick, like politics, right? But politics are a very emotional thing. We all see things through the lenses of our experiences. And, you know, my father died when I was young. You know, that's going to, that's going to color, you know, my experience as a child being on Social Security in different aspects, whereas somebody else is going to have a different experience. There's a lot of emotion tied up with that. And what may be logical doesn't necessarily have any effect on my feelings and that sort of thing. So I like that formula that you provide, which is like, oh, okay, I'm hearing emotion and respond with emotion and Then you give even those examples of how I can communicate.

Yep. So, yeah, well, thank you. I'm glad that resonated with you.

Yeah, absolutely. So, and then you, you dropped on me that you got another book coming out. So let us know if, if you want to give a little sneak peek here to the audience. We'll tell everybody where, where to get your current book. But you want to tell the audience what your next book is going to be about and when that's going to drop. Yeah.

So my next book is called Journey to Enya and the main character is a mouse this time instead of a fairy, a mouse named Martin. And it's about his daughter has an illness and the only way to cure her is to get a herb that is at an island called Enya, which is pretty far away. So he must, he has to rent a ship and hire a crew to basically make it to Enya. And there's a lot of challenges between where he's starting and the island of Enya. And basically we, you and I just now about rowers, washer sinkers. That's the premise of the book. It's how to manage people. So Martin in this book, he's a weaver by trade, he's an introvert. He's never managed people before. He's just kind of been an artisan and now he has to manage a team of 21 mice and other other mammals to get to, to get to the island. So. And with this book, it, it go. I pulled a lot of my personal experiences. So like in the beginning of it, it's when I first started as a manager, all the mistakes that I made and again via by showing versus talent, showing how Martin does the things that I did when I started off and how they, how it, how it worked out, which is not very good. And then kind of basically the same learning I had as the learning kit that Martin goes through. So. And I've given us a lot of test bridges so far and so far the feedback's been really positive. People said that the different, the different characters or employees that Martin deals with and the different conversations they've had, they're like, I've had those exact same conversations with people and I've handled it the way that Martin did and I thought I was doing the right thing, but then it blew up in my face. Just like a blow up in his face. So there's, it seems like it's really resonated a lot with people, especially those who have been in managerial position. So. And that one should be. I'M shooting to drop that one at the beginning of April. So I'm just doing the final edits now and getting the COVID art done.

Yeah, well, if. Get that information over here. Okay. This should be out just a couple weeks after, after we air this podcast here, which should be. Which should be a really good timing for you here, Nick. I'm looking forward to reading it as well.

Thank you.

And I think it's fantastic. You have an interesting background with your engineering. You have the real world application of being a business owner. And one of the big things we love to do here on the Next Level of Income show is to share with people shortcuts and ways that they can be more successful, whether it's making money, keeping money, investing money. And I think your books do a terrific job doing that. And we'd love to have you back on and discuss some of your. Your future books as well.

Awesome. Yeah, I'd love to. This has been a fun experience.

Yeah, man. So what's the best way to. To get a copy of the Dark Fairy for the audience?

It's on Amazon, so you can go to Amazon just search the Dark Gray. You can also go to my website, which is just nicklegia.com and it's listed on my website with a link to Amazon. So those would be the two best ways to get it. Awesome.

If you're watching on YouTube, you can see Nick's link to Nick Nick's website below. If you're listening here on podcast, then you can check the show notes and you can link to that as well. Nick, thanks again for being here today.

Yeah, thanks a lot, Chris. I appreciate it.

Hey, Chris, here again. I hope you found this episode valuable. Now I have one more thing to gift you. We have a page for my coaching clients where you can get a free copy of my book as well as much more from previous guests on the show. Just check out nextlevelincome.com coaching to get a free copy of my book, audiobook and much more. I'll send you a copy of my book and cover all the shipping costs as a thank you for listening to the podcast. Also, please like share and take just 90 seconds to give us a rating on Apple Podcasts.