Ep 197: How to cut your tax rate by up to 50% with Mark Pelberg

What's the worst case scenario on what you end up paying in fees and interest? And if you are going to create significant savings, many people will realize that the risk compared to the tax savings is worth.

Welcome to the Next Level Income show where it's our goal to take your income, your investments and your life to the next level. I'm your host, Chris Larsen. If you haven't yet, get a copy of our book for free at our website next level income.com. that's www.nextlevel levelincome.com. just click on the book link and I'll even send you a copy if you put your address in. On today's show, we have Mark Pearlberg. Mark is the founder of Mark Pearlberg CPAP LLC specializing creating financial freedom through tax strategy for high income earners, real estate investors and entrepreneurs across the U.S. he and his team have pioneered the most exclusive and impactful strategies to advise hundreds of real estate investors and business owners in creating tens of millions in tax savings while performing compliant, timely, complete and accurate returns. Mark is a CPA finalist for the Certified Tax Coach of the Year, Certified Tax Planner and has a Master's in accounting. He also produces a weekly live podcast on tax, business strategy and real estate. To learn more, you can check him out at Mark Pearlberg CPA podcast, YouTube, Instagram and learn more about his services down below in the show notes@markpearlbergcpa.com Mark, great to see you. Welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me today, Chris.

Yeah, man, we're, we're getting close to tax time, Mark. And you know, unfortunately, you know, in 2024, it's probably too late for us to go back and fix our taxes in 2023. But I know there's a few different things. So we're going to, we're going to dive into, you know, a lot of different topics on the tax side today. I see your degrees on right behind your head here. I'd love for you to share a little bit about your, your education, your background and your practice and know what you do.

Absolutely. So we'll, I'll, I'll, I'll compress this into 30 seconds. We, I started off as a teacher, realized I was a numbers guy. I was like, what am I doing? You know, I was selling real estate, trying to be a teacher during the Great Recession, came, became a cpa, became an auditor and realized like, well, this is not very intellectually stimulating at all. And so, you know, I hung around real estate investors to be to because that was my exit. I was like this. I've done two professions and they're both really not for me. So. But these investors start asking me questions about taxes and I was embarrassed because as a cpa, you got to know how to do at least your own taxes.

Right.

I suffered through those tests. So I joined, you know, I started answering some questions and joined the American Institute of Certified Tax Planners. And I became a certified tax coach, certified tax player. Somewhere along the way, when I changed my careers, I got a mass accounting and a CPA license. And one client led to two to four. And once you save client enough money, they will naturally market for you.

Yeah.

And now we have about, about around 100 clients. We have a team of maybe 12 and growing. And we're, you know, we have some rockstar people doing some amazing things to reduce our clients taxes.

I love it. I love it. You know, it, it can be a controversial subject. I've even, I've even talked to investors, Mark, and they're like, well, I don't, I don't want to like deduct too much. I don't want to save too much because I'm going to have to pay it back at some point in the future. Some, some listeners know my story, but I took class from a former IRS auditor. His name, if I recall correctly, was Sandy Botkin. And Sandy had a little bit of a different perspective. You know, he said, hey, don't be afraid of the irs. Learn the rules and don't be afraid to be aggressive, but make sure you're playing by the rules and you're accounting properly. Like you're, you're being very diligent with, you know, your recording process and doing all these things. And I found that, you know, accountants on the whole seem to be a fairly conservative crew. And I was talking to our coaching group earlier today and we were talking about the difference between accountants and tax strategist or tax strategy. And some may think, hey, I have an accountant, Mark. Like, I'm good. But in my experience, accountants are the ones you hand your shoebox of receipts to from the prior year. Now what does a tax strategist really do and how is that different from a traditional accountant?

Yeah, you know, before I jump into that, you know, I think one of the reasons why people are afraid to take tax deductions is because you're. People are afraid of what they don't know. And.

Good point. Yeah. Anxiety comes from ignorance.

Right, Exactly. And the reason why people are afraid to write off their mileage or all these other things which are intense. That was written in the tax code because they just don't know the legislation. And a lot, some of the accounts who are afraid to take write offs also don't know what is in the tax law. So they play, well, let's just not write off, because I never got in trouble from the IRS for not writing things off.

You know what, that's a, let's stop right there. That's a great point. So if you're working with an accountant and they're quote, unquote conservative, they may, they may be doing that because they're not familiar with that. Let's just say that portion of the tax code. And look, the tax code is gray. There's conflicting portions of the tax code as well. So if your accountant says, well, I'm not really sure about that, they wouldn't want to advise you to go counter to that because then they may have to defend that in an audit right now.

Now some of them, but there's, you know, there's, there's a difference between being conservative and being negligent. Oh, and if you don't know what the, what is a legitimate write off and what is allowable in the tax code. Some of this stuff is black and white.

Right.

There's just so many opportunities that are not aggressive and that are not pushing the boundaries and are not going to trigger a red flag. But we have towns that are afraid to do it because they just don't know and they don't take the time to educate themselves on how the tax code is written. But then there are the more strategic things that take you that involve not only knowing and being, being adequate, but also being strategic. So, yeah, the difference between a typical accountant and a strategist here. And you know, we do the tax prep, we do the bookkeeping, but people hire us. Strategy is we find solutions. We find actions that clients can take, things they can do with their cash and way to look at their business that are compliant and will reduce their taxes. And it is a collaborative relationship. It's a forward looking relationship. We want to know. We've done everything we can before the end of the year to maximize tax savings. And most tax preparers and most tax professionals are not designed that way. They don't even know how to charge for that advisory. They're really more focused on getting the return out, keeping you compliant and getting that tax return out the door on time.

Yeah, no, I love that. I mean, is there really any motivation for an average accountant to save their client on taxes? Like, you know, I mean, what's the motivation?

Well, I think that if you design your business proper, which most do not, but if you can charge an additional fee for it, then there would be. But what I think most accountants do is they don't even know how to charge for that advisory, so they don't include it in their package, and then they don't have time to deliver it, so they're. They're under charging and serving their clients. So. So both the client and the account are losing out.

Yeah, that's, That's, That's a great point. And, you know, it's really challenging, especially, I mean, shoot, you know, it's. It's hard enough to find an accountant that understands the tax code, let it alone. Know enough about yourself about the tax code to understand, you know, how do you find an accountant that knows these things and, and understands these things? It can be. It can be really, really challenging. And, you know, it's, it's also, it's also interesting. Mark, I'd love to hear your take on this. You know, over the past 10 years, you know, we've heard all the, all these politicians saying, like, oh, you know, you don't, you know, the rich don't pay their fair share, and, you know, know, Donald Trump didn't pay any taxes, and he's a billionaire, and that's not right. What. Where are those people going wrong?

Which people? What do you mean by going wrong?

So I think. Well, let me. I'll te. I'll tee this up for you. So, Robert Kiyosaki, rich dad, poor dad, talks about, you know, being a W2 earner vers versus a business owner versus being an investor. And how, for instance, you know, if you're a W2 employee, you earn money, you pay taxes, then you pay expenses, whereas as a business owner, you earn money, you typically pay most expenses, then you pay taxes after that. And with, with certain things, like real estate, you have. You can have a lot of expenses, including things like depreciation, which can lead to, I can tell you from experience, not even lower taxes, but sometimes even a negative tax bill.

Oh, yeah, all the time.

Yeah.

So. So, you know, a lot of these politicians talk about that. I mean, when Joe Biden became president, I mean, there were a ton of tax incentives that Donald Trump created. And this is. I'm not gonna, I'm not taking a political stance here. This is just facts. You have a former real estate investor as president, and most of his policies and tax code is still here. And when Biden came into office, a Lot of us were afraid that they would undo all this and all these taxes.

Yeah, I heard a lot about that. Yeah.

Very little has changed. You know, they haven't undone any of the, the key ticket items here. And, and I think part of why is that some of these politicians saying this stuff is that they're getting backed by people using those same tax incentives.

That's right. Yeah.

So, and the, the way to win the game is, you know, to, to have some sort of entrepreneurial endeavor. And real estate is my favorite one. Yeah, I just talk on this last night. It is the most tax advantaged way of making money in the country when it comes to tax incentives. The IRS wants us to do it. The incentives are there to encourage it. And if so, you know, when you compare that to your W2, you know, the W2 way of getting taxes is, is painful. You have, you know, the money just, it is painful. You have no control. But obviously real estate in certain circumstances can help that out. And with the tax strategy, there may be other incentives and ways you can offset the taxes coming out of your W2. So if you're, if you are paying a lot of taxes, then start, it's time to start thinking about strategizing.

I love that. Yeah. And let's, let's get into, you know, kind of some of the differences between W2 earners and some of the strategies that they may be able to take advantage of versus business owners. But just going back to your point, you know, the irs, the government, you know, there's two ways to look at it. The IRS is, you know, saying, hey, pay your taxes. We're going to penalize you if you don't. Or you can say, wait a minute, the IRS is saying, these are things that we're incentivizing you to do and we're going to essentially pay you or subsidize your, your things. And you know, one, one of my favorite fact statistics that's out there is like, I, I worked in corporate America. I worked for big, big corporations. And I was just talking to an investor earlier today and her company was just bought by another large company. And she was telling me how they just eliminated a big portion of part of their, their company. Like, yeah, you know, half. Well, one thing that people don't consider is big, big companies oftentimes economize. They actually reduce headcount. The, the government, they certainly don't create jobs. They, they use taxpayer dollars and they, they have people that are paid from our, from our money, but they're not producing Productive jobs. The number one creator of jobs in this country, and please correct me if I'm wrong here, is small business. And if small business is the economic engine of the country. And like you were saying, business owners are supporting these politicians. And by the way, a lot of these politicians own businesses, own real estate. Why would they not want to incentivize these businesses to, to grow and create jobs?

Yeah. And you know, if you're an entrepreneur, you, one may argue that you deserve these tax breaks because the risk you take on, the hours you take on the initiative to make something out of nothing. Yeah, that's not easy to do. It's so to the entrepreneurs listening out there making good money, you know, there's a reason why this is in place. Because the default and what most people do, you're not adding as much value, you're not always adding as much value in the world if, if you're not building a system, taking on that risk and, and creating jobs and creating a movement. So certainly in, in my mind, in the mind of the irs, when you are a business owner and being entrepreneurial, are tax benefits that come with it to encourage you to, to, to save, to, to be able to handle that risk and to employ more people. There are tax credits with employing people, for sure. And to help more people to, to add more to the world and also to, to help, to hire people so they can support their families.

Yeah, absolutely. No, I love that view. And you know, when a couple of years ago, as you mentioned, Biden came into office and there was, there was talk around that time that they were going to eliminate the 1031 exchange. And you know, I had investors calling me and people texting me and they're like, what do you think's going to happen? And you know, when it comes to politics, when it comes to the government, this, this included, like during COVID too, I told people, look, I said, I, I believe two things to be true when it comes to the government, Ignorance and greed. Said these people aren't as smart that run the government as we think they are. They're just normal people. Like, as you were mentioning, like, a lot of people are ignorant about different things. We just don't know everything that we don't know at times. But then we also, we like money, we like to make money. Politicians, you know, they also like to make money too. And if you have a bunch of politicians that own a bunch of real estate and have a bunch of wealth and they have a bunch of donors that do these things too, they're not going to want to do that. And I said, look, I said I would follow the money. I said, I bet. I was like, I bet a lot of money that the 1031 isn't going away. So that's kind of, that's kind of the rule that I follow there. Are you a high income business owner or professional earning 2, 300,000 or even more a year but still feel like you're living paycheck to paycheck? Are you comfortable working until you're 65 or 70 to retire? Or do you want to achieve financial independence and live life on your own terms? You could join myself and Matt4 and learn how we both became financially dependent in our early 30s. We will teach you how to make, keep and grow your money. Teaching you strategies to, to maximize your earnings, keep your income that you've earned through tax strategy and legal structures and ultimately teach you how to grow it by determining your personal investing strategy as well as teach you how to analyze investments so you can grow your passive income to the point to live life on your own terms. Our coaching clients reliably do this in seven years or less. To learn more, check out our coaching program@nextlevelincome.com forward slash coaching. That's next all income.com forward slash coaching.

Yeah. What do you know, the politicians aren't such altruistic people after all.

After all.

And you know, and on the other side, you know, I mean they're pragmatic.

They're pragmatic in their own way. Right.

Look at, look at the, if you look at country, certain countries, I mean if we were to put housing because they want to encourage people to help. Housing.

Yeah. We have a real estate, massive housing status. Yeah.

What if we counted on government organizations to develop new communities and opportunities?

Well, you got San Francisco at $800,000 per unit.

Yeah. So, so there's a reason why, you know, to encourage the entrepreneurs to get in there with profit and tax incentives to do is to provide adequate and affordable housing. It likely would. You know, entrepreneurs tend to get things done faster than government. From my experience of going to the dmv, although this one is a rarity, they're actually pretty good. But you know, there's a reason why the profit motivated entrepreneurs are going to be taking care of business.

That's right. I love that. So let's say you're okay. Let's talk about a couple different scenarios, Mark. So I want to definitely dive into the business owner and you know, some of the things that you can see there. But if you're a W2 earner out there. You know, essentially, you know, you sign up, you know, you work with a company, you sign onto your online platform, you know, you put in your allowances. I mean, we don't even get a pay stub anymore. It just automatically gets deposited in our bank account and we can go on and we can see the taxes we paid. Right. We can see, you know, Social Security, we can see Medicare, we can see state and federal taxes that go out. And you know, one of the things that always drives me crazy is when people say, oh, I'm excited, I'm getting a refund. Well, I, I always hated getting a refund because it meant I gave the government a tax free loan. So what, what is, is there any Hope for a W2 employee? Is there anything that a W2 employee can do around their tax situation? Or do you just have to, do you just have to say, nope, I just have to bite my tongue and deal with it?

There's less opportunities than a full time entrepreneur, but there are still opportunities. And you know, when you get, when you get that refund, think about what you could have done, that cash, but have it compound over the years and maybe in an index fund or as a down payment in something. But anyway, let's, let's talk about the W2 folks and I'm going to keep my answer mostly geared towards your audience of real estate investors. So there are two ways to reduce your taxes. There's actually a third one we'll touch on. But there are the two most common ways you can reduce your tax liability from your W2 job. The most common is the real estate professional tax status. We need you or your spouse to say more than 50% of your hours were spent in your real estate trade or business. And that 50% equals more than 750 hours.

That means more than. So more than 50% of you or your spouse's time needs to be spent on a real estate trader business and at least 750 hours a year or about 15 hours a week.

Correct. Now you now so or to simplify, you know, at a high level to the people listening and not taking notes, someone works full time in real estate.

Yeah.

Or mostly full time and doesn't have a W2 job. And the other one is if you have short term rentals, materially participate and the average length of stay is seven days or less, then, then the treatment is no longer locked into this passive income bucket. Now there's also an exception. If you make under $150,000, you can write off 25,000, which won't, won't really apply to a lot of people who are married and both working. And there's $25,000 is a nice deduction, but not life changing at that price. And there are a few instances where investing in real estate will create tax credits and charitable tax deductions. So the ways in the real estate space, and then there are other investment vehicles, which is let's say, and we see this because some of our clients realize don't want to deal with the three T's, tenants, toilets and trash.

Right.

So the oil and gas investing, you'll write off 80 to 90 cents per dollar of what you put in there. And that creates passive income. And then you use real estate losses to even offset that passive income. And then there are some other more aggressive opportunities that you can consider that create charitable tax deductions. And the audit risk of those things would be something to consider. However, the tax saving, you are going to need to evaluate the risk versus reward of the tax versus the audit risk in those scenarios. And then you could just create other, there are other ways where you, you can have some sort of side hustle or side business that could see tax deductions. So there are opportunities out there.

No, I love that. So let's recap. So the first one is if you or your spouse is a real estate professional, you can use your passive losses from real estate. And just as an example, have a friend, he's a surgeon. Neurosurgeon. Yeah. Makes, makes a significant amount of money every year, more than a half a million dollars a year. His wife is very intelligent, but stay at home mom, they have three kids and they bought five short term rentals. She became a real estate professional and they were able to take advantage of some things like that.

Well, you don't need rep status with short term rentals though, so you can, even if they were long term, you'd be good.

Well, case in point, they didn't love doing the short term rental game so they converted them to long term rentals. And you know, one of the things, and this is, you know, once you open that door to that loophole, I think a lot of people see this. But what I've found is once you're a real estate professional, Mark, not only can you utilize the losses from the properties that you actively manage, but you can also use the depreciation from investments that you make in things like syndications. Is that accurate?

You're absolutely correct. And it's a wonderful opportunity because we see These real estate professionals, they maybe manage a handful of properties, but then they gotta watch after the families and they're burning themselves out and they're like, I still see the benefits of investing in real estate and cost segregation studies, but I don't, can't find a good deal and I don't want to deal with any tenants. I, you know, I'm maxed out. So what you can do now, as long as we, for material participation, which is another element of this. And by the way, to anyone listening, I have a whole talk on the real estate professional tax status to dive deeper in this. But if, if you want, at that point you can still expand your real estate holdings and cash flow and the benefits by investing in other people's deals. As long as we can say you put in at least 500 hours into your overall portfolio, your group of rental properties.

I love that. Yeah. My favorite answer. There's a joke behind this. I just can't tell it on this family friendly show. But when people ask me, hey, Chris, should I be a passive investor or an active investor? I say be both. Go ahead and beat both. You can do it and really get, really get some great benefits there. I personally, you know, when I was a W2 earner, oil and gas is something that I invested in. I looked into, you know, some of the, the, the charitable deductions that you mentioned can be very powerful. And you mentioned, you know, it can potentially increase your audit risk statistically. But, but one thing that I learned, Mark, was if you're a high income earner, say you're making a million dollars and you're able to bring your effective taxable income down by 50%, even if you may increase your auto risk by 20%, if you've decreased it 50% because you've decreased your income, you know, 100 minus 50 is 50 plus 20, you're, you're still at 60% of where you started. Is that, is that a fair characterization?

Yeah. So I'm not going to give any advice to the audiences. This is something where you want to make sure you're aligned with the right people.

Yeah.

And you have the right facilitators. But when you evaluate the risk of things being reversed or adjusted, if what's the probability of evaluation being adjusted? And if it were to be adjusted, how much would it be adjusted by?

How much?

How long would it take for them to overturn it? We've seen instances where, you know, these people are all tax attorneys. It would take maybe seven years. How long would it take and what's the worst case scenario on what you wind up paying in, in fees and interest. And if you are going to create significant savings, many people will realize that the, the risk compared to the tax savings is worth it. And you know, this is, this is not like a, a Wesley Snipes level strategy here things.

And just for the record, Wesley Snyder's basically just said FU to the IRS and didn't pay taxes. Right?

Yeah. So you're not breaking the law here.

You know, we certainly. Yeah. Number one, we're not giving tax advice today. Number two, we're, we're encouraging people to utilize the IRS rules to your benefit. Not, not, not.

Even then. There's a spectrum of things that incorporate that concept that are, that are going to different levels of risk. So you, you might be taking on a risk, but you know, I like, I'm a mathematical guy and, and you know, like to look at statistics and we help our clients make the decision on what strategies are available, what kind of risks they want to take on associated with those opportunities, and we help them make educated decisions.

I love that. Yeah. And that's, look, that's what this is all about. It's just like, it's no different than looking at an investment. You say, what is the, what is the range of potential returns? What is the risk associated, you know, with that investment? And then you make an educated choice whether or not to move forward instead of just sticking your cash in your mattress. Right. So we talked a little bit about W2 earners, Mark, and you know, but you did mention that they don't have as many benefits as if you're a business owner. So what are some, what is like the number one thing or what are some of the number one things that you see with, with business owners, small business owners that you work with, that they can optimize on the tax side?

Yeah. So I, I mean, there's, there's a lot of things that they can do. I mean, and, and some of these W2 folks can do them if they have some sort of business, if it's real estate. But you know, the additional stuff everybody should be aware of, and this kind of comes back to just understanding what is allowable as a tax deduction. Most people never even have a conversation with the tax advisor talking about what is allowable, what can I actually deduct here? And then when you realize that, then this brings in other conversations. Can we deduct some of our travel? Can we deduct all or a portion of this pickup truck? Can we hire our children? In the business, maximizing our tax deductions by understanding what is, what is allowed by the irs. And as we do this, understanding how to document and substantiate these write offs. So we should be doing both at the same time. You know, an ideal relationship here with your accountant is you're strategizing not only on maxing, maximizing the deduction, also protecting yourself. And you're going to ideally have greater support for those write offs than had you not had a collaborative relationship with a tax account. And then, you know, entity structure, most common entity structure if you have active income corporations. Now if you're depending where you are and what you do and in what state you're in and how complex it is there, there we may be able to introduce more complex forms of entity structuring that would be advantageous from a tax perspective and a risk mitigation perspective. And then there, and then there's some also foundational strategies that, that also apply to real estate, like just year end finding opportunities for bonus depreciation. We had one client who eliminated $600,000 of station just by realizing, you know, I could buy some of these trucks and rent them out to our contractors. We'll make more money, we'll get an immediate tax deduction. Now we need to buy real estate to create a tax write off.

Wow. Yeah, so, and you know, that's, that's something you bring off bonus depreciation. You know, a couple years ago we were, look, I went to, went to the car dealership to get my oil changed and they said, oh, you want to sell us your car back? And I was like, not really. But they had no cars to sell and they gave me more than the Kelley Blue Book as an offer. And I said, well, this is interesting. And when I looked, I found that the same model that have MDX, but there was a model that qualified for section 179 bonus depreciation. What I found out was I could deduct 100% because that's my business vehicle for my taxes that year as an example, which was, was basically the car paid for itself on the front end from the tax savings.

Yeah. So it was awesome being aware of those concepts, you know, and timing now. And then another thing here, and I can't really give any specific examples because everybody's situation is unique. But timing, simply timing, timing is like everything with tax planning. So like looking at your 401ks in your IRAs and maybe unrealized gains in your stocks, the mix of business activities, where are your profits and then timing things to take advantage of other events. So if we time when we're going to recognize a gain or a profit, when we're going to time loss, how are we going to depreciate things? All these things are considered in the mix to maximize tax savings.

I love that. And if it sounds complicated, that's why it's so valuable to talk to somebody like Mark and his group because they can put the pieces in place and look forward, not backward to help you optimize your tax savings. Speaking about looking forward, Mark, you know we've had had some changes in the tax code. Anything exciting or things that people should watch here in 2024?

Well you know a lot of the change changes are you know you and you'll see talking about it on social media with maybe more of a child tax credit, maybe more of a standard deduction, things of that nature, not a not These are the things that are not significant enough for us to really raise our eyebrows and promote to our clients because our clients want big tax savings. They hire us because they have big problems and we create significant savings. The number one thing on my mind and I'm sure you could guess this and it's on the mind of many tax advisors, especially with real estate is what's going to happen with bonus depreciation because last year it went from 100 to 80 and right now it's scheduled to be but there's legislation that may actually retroactively move your 2023 bonus depreciation from 80 all the way up hundred. And like now we don't even know like a lot. The even the IRS has recommended that we hold off on filing these returns because we don't know yeah. What the liability is if there's opportunities for bonus and they may change this year 2024 back to 100% as well. So the we the you know today is the recording is February 15, 2024. There is some legislation you're back on and so you'll have to Google if and hopefully there's an answer on on what's going on with depreciation because that's going to have a huge impact on the impact of these cost eggs and just other general purchases to get you that bonus.

Yeah. Great point and I, I certainly hope we know because this is going to be airing right a couple weeks out before April 15th. And but again it looks like it it would be upside, not downside if they change that rule which would be terrific. Mark, I've enjoyed this conversation. I'm total because I've seen the savings and the power that can, that it can have. And I certainly encourage you, if you're listening to reach out to Mark. Mark, what's the best way for listeners to get access to, to you, your team, a lot of the resources that you have.

If you go To Mark Pearlberg CPA.com you're G fil a form to fill out if you're interested in our services. You'll even see a link if you want to just talk to someone for a quick 10 minutes. You might get access to me or someone else on the team. Also join our newsletter. We have a very active newsletter. We invite you guys to free events. We have one tomorrow on and this one is on estate planning for entrepreneurs and real estate investors. And we're bringing on an attorney. Open conversation, free. We have lots of events where you can talk to me directly. And so we, we try. Now, you know, we're limited on how many people we could serve because but you know, if you want to talk to us, just sign on our mailing list. You'll see all these free opportunities. We have a free community. We always try to help out as many people as we can. But you know, fill out the survey if you think you qualify, if you're overpaying in taxes and also if anybody's listening, if you are or you know, a good tax accountant. We are hiring non stop tax accounts. We're looking for the best and brightest. So if you or your friend or your family or your friends, families, families, friends. Know someone hungry and good, enthusiastic, wants to join an awesome team, be some good people, I'll give you a referral fee.

I love it. I love it. I might have somebody for you. As a matter of fact, I'm going to talk to my friend tomorrow whose wife is an accountant. And Mark, I signed up for your list. It's fantastic. Lots of great resources. You got the Mark Perlberg CPA podcast and Mark's link to his website is right here in the show notes down below. If you're watching or listening. Mark, thanks so much for being on the show today.

Chris, thank you very much for your time and the opportunity to talk to. I hope you guys enjoy.

Hey Chris, here again. I hope you found this episode valuable. Now I have one more thing to give to you. We have a page for my coaching clients where you can get a free copy of my book as well as much more from previous guests on the show. Just check out nextlevelincome.com coaching to get a free copy of my book. Audiobook and much more. I'll send you a copy of my book and cover all the shipping costs as a thank you for listening to the podcast. Also, please like share and take just 90 seconds to give us a rating on Apple Podcasts.