Ep 201: The Future of Gold & the US Dollar with Kevin DeMeritt

Actually got a little bit better in the memory care because he was surrounded by people as opposed to being, you know, at home. So to me, I went through it, I understood it, we've done a bunch of research on it. I'm with you 100%. I think it is the big new wave of real estate investing for people that should be very stable and profitable for people.

Welcome to the Next Level Income show where it's our goal to take your income, your investments and your life to the next level. I'm your host Chris Larsen. If you haven't yet, get a copy of our book for free at our website, Next Level income. Com. That's www.nextlevelincome.com. just click on the book link and I'll even send you a copy if you put your address in. On today's show, we have Kevin Demerit. Kevin is an international business and economic expert with deep experience in financial markets and interest rate change. Kevin started his international banking career at the WFI Corporation. Building upon this experience and his analysis that indicated gold would be a safe haven for investment. In 1997, he founded Lear Capital. Since its founding, Lear Capital has grown to be one of the nation's largest precious metals companies. As an expansion of his professional footprint in the financial management space. In 2008, he co founded Wilshire Finance Partners, a real estate investment firm. He's currently at work expanding on his book and looking ahead to predict how current events will affect the marketplace over the next 10 years. We're going to dive into what he sees over the next 10 years in today's show. Kevin, welcome to the show.

Hey, great to be here, Chris. Thanks for having me.

Oh yeah. I'm really excited for this conversation. You know, it's, it's funny during, during times where there's some uncertainty economic, economically, it's, it can be challenging for a lot of investors, but it certainly is, is more interesting than, than certain times. I know we have a lot of variables specifically in 2024, not just with interest rates but also there's so many elections around the world and you know, with elections and come, you know, some monetary stimulus in a lot of cases and some other things and we're going to get into, you know, how hard assets, specifically gold. We'll talk a little bit about real estate today, respond to those moments. But Kevin, you have a interesting background. I'd love for you to share a little bit of it with the audience before we dig in here.

You know, when I first came out to California right after college, I was hired as in international banking. And we literally set banks around the world for GE and, and larger companies, mostly import exportation type of companies. And so in doing that, we always had to capitalize these banks with the different currencies around the world. And so we had a hedging problem. We would always have to hedge for currencies and it become kind of a pain in the neck. So they put me in charge of trying to figure out is there another type of currency that we could capital these banks in different jurisdictions with a different type of currency. So back then there wasn't the euro, it was a French franc, and you had to deal with everything. I spent about a year looking at different currencies. And what I kept coming back to was that gold was a little bit more stable than all the currencies. And through that year of kind of researching different currencies, including gold, came to the conclusion that gold was the best alternative. But not only that, that I was going to quit my job and actually get into the business of helping people understand gold, invest in gold and silver, protect their portfolio, grow their wealth. So I got into this business almost on an accident 35 years ago from going from bank to. To researching and starting a precious metals company.

Wow. Well, you certainly put your money where your mouth is doing that.

Yeah.

And yeah. So I would, I want to talk a little bit for, you know, we have, we have some in the audience that, look, I count myself as, that I wasn't around when us came off the gold standard and, you know, the Bretton Wood, Bretton woods happened. You mind sharing a little bit about what happened, you know, where we came from as a country? Because we used to have the gold standard. And I don't think a lot of people really understand what that is. And, you know, certainly we're, we're as far away from it today as we have been during that time period.

Yeah. So if you go back prior to 1933, the currency used was all backed by gold and silver or was actually gold and silver. So if you pick up a Saint Gardens $20 gold coin, that's what we're using as $20, $10 Indians and Morgan dollars. People remember, especially if they go to Vegas, they used to be able to get the old Morgan dollars. That was the real money in 1933, Roosevelt, because of the wars, was told by other countries, look, we don't want any of your paper currency even though it is backed by gold. We want your actual gold. So in 1933, they basically skated gold. They Said, hey look, if you've got gold bars or bullion that people know today, which would be an American or a bar of gold, you have to give that back to us for the $20. So everybody gave that gold back to the government that was sent over Europe. Everybody. But what you were able to keep was gold that was rare and unusual, which was the $10 gold pieces.

Interesting.

So you got to keep that. And the bullion went away and there was some pretty hefty fines. It was 10 years in jail and back then, $1,000 fine. So thousand dollars in 1933 was a lot of money. From 1933 to 1974, it was basically to own that type of gold. The government paid $20 in 1933. In about six months they increased the price to $50. So they automatically pushed up the price from 20 to 50. That's where the gold price stood. And then after 1974, the government says, okay, we're not going to back any of our currency by gold anymore. But you're able to own gold now. So you're able to own gold at $50 an ounce if you were lucky enough to get in the first couple of days. And now the government, instead of having to back any currency by a portion of gold, was able to print money as much as they want without any kind of backing at all. And then we end today, which Chris, becomes very important for people to understand, because when the government can print money that quickly, what investment gives you a correlation to how much money is being printed? Which really means how much is your dollar falling? For every dollar the government prince that your dollar falls. And if you can find a big correlation to that, which is what I found in that group studying was it was a 92% correlation with the government debt and where the price of gold went.

92%.

Yeah, 92%. So geez, if I go to Vegas and I had 92, if I invest in anything in a 92% predictability and correlation, it's, it's pretty good. But we, we show everybody that in our information, here's what it's been and it's held up that way since 1974. So as you started adding more money in on the dot com with Alan Greenspan, he kind of started this quantitative easing and then go through Allen and, and you know, everybody that's been printing up this huge amounts of money and pushing up the debt has been pushing the gold price. And we see that correlation, we're off a little now. Gold really should trade at about 3, 200 an ounce. And here we are at 2000. But usually what you see, you see the debt go way up and the gold price catch up to it. So that's extremely important because when you have that correlation, you can also see when the gold price is too high. So if you look back in 2010 after 2008 crisis, the gold price got up to 950. It should have only been around 1450 or 1500. So we would tell people, look, go the opposite way. You got to sell that. Now move over platinum, palladium, something in the industrial side, because those are going to pick up as the economy starts to move back up. I know that was very long winded, but that correlation to us is the most important to look at because it has such a high probability of predictability to where debt is in the government.

No, I, I appreciate that. I love that. And I would love, I'd love to hear a little bit more about how, how you guys come to that number, because I remember, you know, one of the things that this was. Shoot. I'm trying to remember how many years ago it was now. Probably 15ish. You could probably tell me better than I can remember. But it, it costs less to buy gold than it costs to mine it out of the ground. The cost of mine. Right. I think it was like around 12 or 1400 at that point. And I was buying it for about 20% discount. I was like, hey, this, this makes sense to do that. How do you, how do you figure out those numbers, Kevin?

Yeah, so we take you, you take the amount of physical gold that's available right above ground, which is fairly predictable. I mean, there are some countries we can't tell 100, but you can get a fair, accurate picture. And then we.

Let's stop, let's stop right there. It's, it's predictable. And about how much are we adding to the gold supply per year approximately through mining?

Around 2200 metric tons a year.

Okay. Yes.

And that's been extremely stable.

Yeah, it's been very. Yeah, that's been very consistent. I think that's important to note.

Yeah. So if we understand those numbers and we understand how much gold, we can calculate obviously how much the, the debt the US government is. And we're just looking at the 34 trillion that they, that they're showing us. Not the unfunded liabilities, Social Security, all of that kind of stuff. We're just looking at the $34 trillion that's out there. And in our information, we can show people the formula. It's A little bit complicated to go tell you about, but if you know the amount of gold and what they've added and you understand how much central banks are holding, which in the last two years they've been on a record buying spree, then that's usually out of the market for 10 or 15 years at a time. They're not day traders, they're not buying and selling on a daily basis. So when we calculate those numbers together, it's extremely predictable where the price of gold should be based on the debt. So the debt in 2008 was around 8 trillion and here we are at 34 trillion. Price of gold should be much higher. It is that it's up to 2000 but in reality it should be around the 2200 or I'm sorry, 3200 to 3500 mark today.

I think that's a great point. I think that's something, you know, I love to look at these long term trends because you can say, wait, where are we, you know, relative to history? And you know, we might not get it right day to day. But you know, I like to bet as I talk about in my book on, on the right like Rising Tide and my book talks about multifamily real estate, which is, is another hard asset. So I think, you know, a lot of listeners are familiar, listeners of the show are familiar with real estate. But gold, silver, you know, you mentioned palladium, platinum, you know, these are, these are also hard assets, right Kevin, Even though they don't, they don't produce income per se. Do you mind talking about, you know, kind of comparing and contrasting the two categories or two asset classes and you.

Know, you and I had a little conversation. I have a real estate company as well. So it's, it's easy for me to kind of look at both of these things. Look, the inc. Real estate's going to produce, you know, income, but we have basically the same supply demand dynamics. If, if you look at real estate, just the coastal real estate, well, okay, we can't make any more coastal real estate. So you put an increased demand on that fixed supply. What has to happen to price?

It's the same town 101, right?

And it's the same with precious metals. The increase in the amount of supply of precious metals each year at around 2200 metric tons is very small compared to how much gold is out there. So you basically say that we have this fixed supply of gold with a little tiny increase. And if you put an increase in demand on a fixed supply, happens to Price. That's why the debt matters. You're creating money out of thin air, and that money is going to go somewhere, and the percentage of that money goes to the precious metal side is going to push that price up much higher. If you started increasing debt that much. It's the same with real estate. The real estate values haven't. In 2008, they went down because of an enormous amount of debt, specifically in real estate. But if you look today, you wish you would have held on to that real estate because it's even higher. And if we look at, and to.

Be fair, there was deflation during that time. So it does make sense that, you know, certain assets that hold up in inflationary times would potentially go down somewhat in value.

Absolutely. And if they raise interest rates a little bit, then some people can't afford. So you've got, you've got things that you need to pay attention to. So when I look at the real estate market, we had an enormous amount of real estate investors that invest because like you just said, they like tangible assets. What they liked about it in 2008 was one of two things. Well, it was one thing, liquidity, because their real estate had fallen, maybe their loan was too big and they had to come up with some additional money to down the bank and keep that piece of real estate. So it worked out well there. Gold is extremely liquid. And then for the guys that, you know, had a piece of real estate or a portfolio of real estate and they wanted to buy more at these depressed prices, they just used their gold holdings to it, which was at a much higher price at that time, and then, and then go, you know, purchase some real estate. But, but what they enjoyed about it was the liquidity. You know, it, the state was down, the stock market was down a little bit. Gold typically is inverse, has an inverse relationship to that. So they were able to sell it at a higher price and have something extremely liquid.

Yeah, no, and you make a good point. I think, you know, a lot of investors that understand this, that aren't just in the stock market and, or, and, or the bond market, which, I mean, we saw the 6040 portfolio really break down here in the last year or so when it didn't actually work. But, you know, I think a lot of investors understand the, the value of gold when it comes to diversification and in a lot of ways and doing that. And look, just to underscore your point, Kevin, you know, if, if the price of gold is in dollars and there's more dollars, then the price of gold is Going to go up in terms of dollars. So, you know, I think a lot of people, it's a very simple metric when it comes to that. And I love when you look at the chart like you said, starting at $50 an ounce, and the price of gold just goes up exponentially. And it goes up exponentially. You can lay overlay the debt of the US government right on top of that. It's almost a perfect correlation, as you mentioned.

Yeah, that's right. And you know, people always ask me, well, what happens when the government stops printing the money right? When they slow this thing down?

I'd love to see that.

Yeah, no, I would love to see it too. It's. But I tell them it's impossible. It's absolutely impossible for the government to stop printing money. I give them this example and I think that would help your listeners. It takes a couple minutes, but I think it's important for people to understand you. And I live on an island. You're the banker and somehow you got all the money right.

And I like the way the story starts.

Yeah, no, yeah. And we. Shells is money. And there's 10 shells on the, on the island. And I come to you and I said, chris, I've got this incredible idea to start a business. I need 10 shells to start the business. You listen and you say, that's fantastic. Here's your 10 shells. I'm going to charge you 10% interest. Okay, fine. I go out, I spend the shells in the economy, and by the end of the year, my, in my, my business was so great that I get the 10 shells back and I come to you. I'd say, Chris, here's your 10 shell I can use. So that's great, but I'm going to repossess your company. Why? Because I can't come up with a 10th or 11th shell for the 10% interest. We only have 10 shells on the island. So you as the banker has to print up that shell so that I'm able to pay you back. The government can't stop printing money because of interest. So the interest on our debt now sits at a trillion dollars a year. They at least need to print that up, plus all the interest that you and I and everybody else needs to be able to pay back the interest based on what the money supply is. So that's why I love gold. If the government can't stop printing money, then I know that over time, three to five years, the gold price should start going in the upward right direction. So should real estate. All the, all the table Assets that have a fixed supply should go up over time. How much, that's what you have to determine and when's the best time to buy. But you've got a real great opportunity and chance with high probability that you're going to get higher prices.

Yeah, no, I, and I mean just kind of to build upon that. So one of the, one of the discussions that comes up with investors and our coaching clients repeatedly, Kevin, is that of qualified retirement plans. And I'm, personally, I'm not a huge fan. There are some circumstances, I think they make sense. But, and this is, this is the explanation that I have. So if you're going to invest through a qualified retirement plan, you're basically betting that your tax rate is going to be lower in the future. Because if you invest the dollar today at 10% and in 20 or 40 years after you know it, accumulating whether you pay the tax today, let's say it's 25%, where the tax in the future at 25%, you end up with the same amount of money. The only way you end up with more is if that tax rate's lower. And to me, I'm only, I only see two ways for the tax rate to be lower. I make less money or the government lowers taxes. Doing the math, today we need to raise taxes across the board approximately 50% to balance the budget and pay for. You mentioned not just the debt, but our future obligations. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, all. There's multiple other things at this, at the city and state level. So going into that headwind, Kevin, what do you. I know we can say, okay, we can print money, but is there, is there an end game that, you know, the, the dollar has to collapses and in that scenario, and you can kind of talk about different scenarios, but how does gold perform them?

Well, I think, look, the government can't start printing money. Okay. So we're, that's not going to happen.

I don't, I don't. Yeah, I would concur. I don't really see how we get out of this, you know.

Right. And we talked about assisted living and things like that. So the demographics come out where the government has a decent opportunity, raise some money. Based on exactly what you just said, all of these retirement programs are usually IRAs or 401ks and the people retiring, they're going to have to pay some money out of those plans. And there's trillions of dollars in those plans. So at 70 and a half required minimum distribution, you have to pay regardless if you want to or not you're going to pay some tax, the government has an opportunity to grab some of that money back. Your point, what is the tax rate at that particular, at that particular time? Where they make sense to me is if you have a math program with, with, you know, your, your business. Right. Because that way I'm offsetting my taxes and so on and so forth. But a lot of times those retirement programs are probably not cracked up everything that they're cracked up to be, unless again, you're using a matching or a Roth ira if you qualify to be able to put something in, put, put money in there. But it kind of maxes you out at an income level. So it depends on every, you know, situation. But I would agree with you on, on those.

Yeah. And I think a lot of listeners, I mean, look, there's, there's certainly a wide swath of the population, you know, their income's going to go down in retirement, they're going to dip into Social Security. Most of our listeners though, you know, they're, they're building a wealthy future for themselves. They're building assets and, and trying to look for ways, and this is the reason why I have this conversation to, to plan, you know, for, for circumstances where they can put themselves in a beneficial position. So we're gonna, we're gonna share with the audience some of your resources so they can, the audience can figure out, you know, how can they kind of predict the price of gold in the future? I want to, I want to get into real estate. I want to talk about demographics. I think that's, that's going to be super important for, to predict some other things, but I would love to hear what your thoughts are on the future of the US Dollar compared to other currencies that are out there. Because some of the, I don't know whether you call it saber rattling that's out there. They talk about, oh, the dollar is going to lose its reserve status, China's going to rise. And I think there's a demographic undercurrent in China due to the one child policy that I would argue against that. But where do you see the US Dollar going from here, Kevin? Are you a high income business owner or professional earning 2, 300,000 or even more a year, but still feel like you're living paycheck to paycheck? Are you comfortable working until you're 65 or 70 to retire, or do you want to achieve financial independence and live life on your own terms? You could join myself and Matt4 and learn how we both became financially dependent in our early 30s, we'll teach you how to make, keep and grow your money, teaching you strategies to to maximize your earnings, keep your income that you've earned through tax strategy and legal structures and ultimately teach you how to grow it by determining your personal investing strategy as well as teach you how to analyze investments so you can grow your passive income to the point to live life on your own terms. Our coaching clients reliably do this in seven years or less. To learn more, check out our coaching program@nextlevelincome.com forward slash coaching. That's nextlevelincome.com forward slash Coaching.

I, I would be shocked if in 10 years, 12 years that the US dollar is still the world's reserve currency. I, I really would. I look for tipping points on certain things and I have to really track the currency because it has a lot of effect on the precious metals price. So when you see five countries, the BRICS countries.

Yep.

Everybody getting together, you have 40% of the world's population. With those five countries that would like to take down the US dollar with the, with the BRICS currency and they want to back some portion of it with gold, even if a small portion, you're going to have an extremely strong currency with 40% of the population. And there were another 97 countries that were looking at that to possibly become involved, including Saudi Arabia, which has been an extremely strong partner with the petrod. With us, everything's got to be in dollars. And they were coming to the conclusion, hey, maybe this BRICS currency is a different way for us to do that. If that happened, you have 40%, pretty easy to get to 50% of the world's population. That's a tipping point to me where people say, okay, the US Dollar or the US Government has printed up enough that we want to start over with these currencies. Most currencies also, Chris, usually last about 70, 75 years on average. So if you look at history, the world's reserve currencies usually last around 75 years on average. That's kind of where we are. And I know people would probably think, well, this time is different. I don't think so. There's too many countries out there looking for alternatives. We've weaponized the dollar against countries. We've done a lot of things with this dollar that I think are driving other countries to look for some more stable type of a currency without the kind of debt that the US Government has behind it.

Yeah, that's, you know, that's a really good history lesson. For a lot of people. And real quick, so the bricks are Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa and also, you know, you can include some, some Middle Eastern countries in there as well. And you mentioned the petrodollar, Kevin. You know, basically, you know, oil trades in dollars around the country. Now I, I think Russia has now in the past year with the conflict, you know, they've, they've started to trade in, in rubles, if I'm, if I'm not incorrect on that, which is kind of, you know, maybe, maybe one of the first legs of the stool to fall.

Well, not only are trading in rubles, they're trading in rubles and gold.

And gold.

And to. Yeah. And to stop the fall in the ruble when we had all the sanctions against them, they backed a portion of the ruble with gold, which then made it skyrocket back up. So again, the BRICS countries, including Russia, which is part of it, are looking at the gold to, to back some portion of its currency. Let me tell you something, Chris, that would be, in my opinion the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of nations. Because if you thought about the trade, our trade deficits, about a billion dollar deficit, if you traded in just gold instead of paper dollars, this would make the difference. A trillion dollars of our gold would leave and go to other countries because of the deficit and we would get toys and cars and everything. That's depreciating back.

Yeah.

So if you just did trade. Well, if you thought about it in real estate, we would be giving away a trillion dollars in real estate, U. S. Real estate to other countries. If we traded in real estate, that's real. When you're trading in paper, people don't, it doesn't, you don't feel it. But if they backed some portion of that bricks with, with gold and that became the world's reserve currency, that means whatever portion that they backed by gold would be real money. Leaving the United States. That would be devastating. It's a very smart move. If it happens on their side, not on our side.

Yeah, no, that's, I think that that's a, that's a massive point that you just made there. And I think it's something that, if you're an investor, it's something that we need to keep an eye on. I want to get to two more topics. I know, I know. I briefly touched on it. What led me into, I spent most, most of my career in the medical device space. And what led me there was demographics. I said, hey, you know, baby boomers are wealthy, wealthiest generation in history, most active generation in history. They're going to want to stay active. They have money to continue to do that. What are they going to do to stay active? They're going to have hip, knee replacements, surgery. So I got into that space. I, I was dealing in, in real estate as well, but just single family rentals. And when I learned about the demographic wave coming in, specifically in the millennials and retirees, I got into multifamily real estate. The and I know, you know, you and I touched on this before, but I look at the next demographic wave coming and we hear about the silver tsunami. Well, these 10,000 baby boomers are going to start turning 80 here in the next couple years, and it's not going to stop for about 20 years. And we simply don't have enough housing and assist, specifically senior housing for these individuals. What are your thoughts on the demographic silver tsunami that's about to hit us, Kevin?

Oh, I think that's the number one place that, you know, my other company, Wilshire Finance Partners, work that we look at. I mean, we lend to people that are either building or purchasing assisted living, memory care, things like that, nursing homes. And that's been our focus for the last three years. I, I believe that that's going to be one of the safest loans you can make. If your parents are need a place to go, usually the kids find a way to pay the, the that should grow exponentially over, like you said, the next 10 years as, as people start to go in. And what's unique about it, Chris, is people end up going into the assisted living. And about 5 or 10% of those people then go into, you know, it's a memory career and that big growing section of this as well. So, you know, everybody wants to take care of their parents. It's a, it's a nice way of doing. My mother went into one she didn't want to go. And finally the state came along and said, hey, look, you just, you got to put her in something here because she can't be at home. And I hire a nurse for $24,000 a month to sit there and, you know, be full time. But, you know, she went into the home, then went into memory care, actually got a little bit better in the memory care because he was surrounded by people as opposed to being, you know, at home. So, yeah, to me, I went through it, I understood it. We've done a bunch of research on it. I'm with you 100%. I think it is the big new wave of real estate investing for people. That should be very stable and profitable for people.

Yeah, no, It's. I concur 100%. I saw it. My parents both passed away, and I was the de facto child when my grandparents went through this. And I saw the same thing with my grandmother, my grandfather. I was talking to my friend's father, who's quite wealthy, and he's, you know, in the real estate space. And I mentioned to him senior housing, and he kind of. He shook his head. He's like, people don't want to live into that, live in those. And I said. But I said, his name's Bob. I said, bob, the thing you're. You're missing is it's not do they want to. It's. It's. Can they. Can they afford it? And as you mentioned, I said, you know, Bob, you may be able to afford a nurse that comes in and takes care of you, but, you know, at 5, 10, 20, $30,000 a month, it's not affordable for most people. We're going to have to find ways that are either innovative or collective to take care of these people. And I certainly think, if you're listening, this is a space that you can look at and I believe is going to outperform over the next one to two decades, in my opinion.

I. Absolutely. I'm with you on that. You know, 24,000 was the amount in. In Montana. I mean, you and I spoke before. You know, this is Montana. That's where my mom lives. 24,000amonth to have a nurse basically full time. And the state said, look, you. It's either that or she has to go someplace because she's, you know, not capable of taking care of herself. And. Yeah, so I think some people are going to go. And just the amount of people who want to go. My mom didn't, but ended up enjoying it when she was there. That it's going to be a big home run for I think a lot of people. We've been seeing it over the last couple of years. People just been building and building and building and building, and a lot of the units are full before the building's done. The people have already reserved the space for their parents in certain locations. So there's a lot of demand out there.

Yeah, it's. It really is breathtaking. Yeah. So we'll. We'll continue to talk about that topic here in the future on this show. The last thing I want to mention, Kevin, when this show airs, we should have just hit the next bitcoin having. And, you know, we've Been talking about gold and hard assets and a lot of people talk about bitcoin as quote, unquote, digital gold. What are your thoughts on bitcoin? Does it have the same benefits as gold? Is it a flash in the pan? You know, I would, I would say that, hey, some of the things you just said about gold, we know how much is out there in terms of bitcoin. We, we have a, a supply that we know is consistent. So when people say it's digital gold, I can see the, the consistencies there with that argument.

Yeah, you know, I like, I've always liked bitcoin. I think it's a great alternative investment for, for some people it's like stocks. Look, you should own some stock. How much? Completely up to you and your financial advisor. You should own gold, you should. Bitcoin, you should own some real estate. Diversification. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. So I'm a believer in, in bitcoin. I'm a, a bigger believe in it, in it now because at least you have some security that. It's not a security from the sec. Right. When you're.

Excellent point.

Yeah, yeah. Some of these other coins, you could wake up and it's another XRP or whatever that coin was. I can't remember off the top of my head. They're calling half of these things securities and you just don't know if you trade them.

Chris, Chris Larson, by the way, different Chris Larson. He's, he's the one that came up with Ripple xrp. He's got a, he's got a couple extra zeros behind his, his net worth than I do. But you know, just a little, a little tidbit, little trivia. Yeah.

Look, look at the nightmare that he has to go through. Is it a security or isn't it a security? Spending millions and millions of dol. Fight this thing. You just don't want to get caught up in it. Bitcoin kind of said, hey look, it is not a security. So I feel much better on it and believe that with the new exchange traded funds and so on and so forth that it's probably got a lot, a lot longer Runway to a much higher price. I haven't really calculated it out, but I think for the younger generation understand it a lot more. I kind of deal with people at about 45 and over and about 45 and under seem to like the bitcoin. So we, we have alternatives for everybody, I guess.

Yeah, we, we just aired an episode right before this one on bitcoin. So if you're listening, you missed that you, you can compare and contrast the discussions between the two. But Kevin, I could, I could talk to you all afternoon and, and on and on. We'd love to have you back on, but you have some fantastic resources for investors on your website. I think a lot of investors would be interested to find out that you can actually own gold, precious metals through IRAs and those sorts of things. What's the best way to get some of these resources from your company?

Yeah, you know, we have a special report on the gold price. We're making our prediction for 2024. We're also showing that correlation that I do about debt and the price of gold. In our opinion, the price of gold should be around 3200. Now, how to put it in your IRA, how to take possession of it. And I, you know, I just love your program and the help and the education that you give to people. So we wanted to do something a little bit special for, for the program. So if people give us a call or go to the website that I'll give out, we will credit their account $250 just for calling. Also, they purchase, they can use that $250 for the shipping and the insurance to get the physical metal to them or all of the IRA fees to start an IRA or move existing IRA over to precious metals. So if they give us a call at 1-800-314-0723 or go to learinvest.com learlest.com pull out that paperwork and we automatically know that it, it came from the next level income program with you, Chris. And we will quickly credit the account.

Awesome. So one more time, that was 1-800-314-0723 and learinvest.com we're going to have all that information in the show notes. So if you're listening, if you're driving, you can, you can check that as well. Kevin, this has been a, this has been a wonderful conversation. I appreciate all the insight you've given to our audience and we look forward to having you back on the show at some point here in the near future.

Yeah, thanks for having me, Chris. Appreciate it.

Hey, Chris, here again. I hope you found this episode valuable. Now I have one more thing to give to you. We have a page for my coaching clients where you can get a free copy of my book as well as much more from previous guests on the show. Just check out nextlevelincome.com coaching to get a free copy of my book audiobook and much more. I'll send you a copy of my book and cover all the shipping costs as a thank you for listening to the podcast. Also, please like share and take just 90 seconds to give us a rating on Apple Podcasts.