ep 229: From Fighting Fires to Flipping Houses with Ian Horowitz

Not only was it scale for us, but it was scale for our friends and family to get involved with us and be able to co invest and co lend with us, which is way more impactful than a lot of other things that we can do. Right. Like, and yes, I think that's what's important about it, is that helping not only ourselves, you know.

Welcome to the Next level Income show where it's our goal to take your income, your investments and your life to the next level. I'm your host, Chris Larsen. If you haven't yet, get a copy of our book for free, free at our website, nextlevelincome.com. that's www.nextlevelincome.com. just click on the book link and I'll even send you a copy if you put your address in. On today's show, we have Ian Horowitz. Since his first rental Property purchased in 2012, Ian has broadened his involvement in real estate with property flipping, assisting troubled homeowners stay in their homes, providing housing for subsidized tenants, and now working actively in the self storage industry. Currently, Ian and his team own and operate 740,000 square feet of self storage. He's excited. He has earned his retirement from firefighting to be fully engaged with his family and in the company he co founded with Daniel Math, Equity Warehouse. Ian is a licensed private pilot and enjoys his free time in the skies. And today he's going to share his story with you. Ian, welcome to the show.

What's up, Chris? How you doing, brother?

I'm doing great. I'm doing great. It's great to see you here today. We are, we are getting back in the groove after the hurricanes have come through western Carolina here. So it's fun to, fun to kind of settle back in a little bit. And I'm looking out the windows. The leaves are beautiful. They're changing. But today I'm, I'm excited to talk about your change that you've gone through, Ian with, with your background as well as what you're doing today. And I'm going to turn it over to you to share a little bit more about kind of how you ended up and founded Equity Warehouse.

Yeah. So let's see, I'm going to try to ease into this one here. So just to give you guys like a example, we do today it's Equity Warehouse and we invest in commercial real estate and we have our friends and family co investor co lend with us on the opportunities see fit. But we had very, very humble beginnings and to take it all the way back to like pre investment career. All me and business partner Dan wanted to do was be big city career firemen. We grew up outside of Philadelphia. We graduated in 2000, 2001, you know, so we hit 911 error. We were already volunteering at the local firehouse and our goals and a few of our other friends there, our whole goal was to be career firemen. You saw the guys from New York that happened on 911 and you know, there's just something about like, you know, Philadelphia, all these big cities and it's like, man, those guys were career firemen for 30 years and they got all these cool stories and they got a side business and it just seems like everything's like put together and you know, it was, it was intriguing and I was going through like a very rough part of my life. My dad had know was very sick and wound up passing away. I was taking care of my younger brother and I needed some sort of rigidity in my life. And while it's not like super military, it is paramilitary and that, that's what firefight like, it gave me some sort of substance to work off of. And that's how we became firemen. And if you would have recorded this show, which I would never be a guest on the show 10 years ago, but if you'd be like, hey man, like, what are you doing? I'd be six years in my, you know, a few years into my career, four, five, six years into our careers. And I'd say, well, I'm going to be a fireman for the rest my next 30 in my life and I'm not doing anything else. And I guess I didn't say it, but we wound up becoming career firemen for the city of Baltimore. If you ever watch the Wire, that is where it is all true. And if you watch riots that happened in the early teens, that CBS that was on fire was three blocks from my firehouse.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, all of it is absolutely 100 true. And it was a, it was eye opening, interesting experience to say the least.

So, yeah, love the Wire. It's one of my all time favorite series. And what's the dude with the big scar on his face? I'm trying to remember his name. Omar.

Yeah, that's right. Omar.

Omar.

Omar.

Yeah, Omar coming. That's right. If you come at the King, you best not miss, right? Yeah, that was his. That was my favorite line from Omar. But yeah. So Ian, I think, you know, it's, it's something, there's something about being a fireman. Because we have our, our friend that owns a landscape business. He's a fireman. I have another guy I met through a coaching program. He's a fireman out in California. There seems to be a kind of almost like an entrepreneurial bend to fire firemen or firefighters compared to some of the other, other services. Have you seen that? Or, you know, is there some, is there some reason, is there some, something that kind of seems to aggregate fire firefighters in, you know, in the entrepreneurial space?

Yeah, I'll give you the, what I think is the right reason, and I'll give the wrong reason, but it relates to everything we're about to talk about. The right reason is. Think about it, we're in an industry that we give back and we care about people. And it's not about sex, it's about race. It's not about any of that crap. It's about, yeah, you're in a time of need. We're here to help you. And I know right before we started recording the show, you were telling me about how like, hey, you're telling your sons, like, hey, like we just had this flood. We need to go help our neighbors. And this is what we do in a time of need. Well, that's what we do. And it's like, well, it's just a natural, hey, so and so calls, they need a light hung. And then that turns into I need a, a painting job done. And it's like, yeah, I'll do it and I'll make a few extra bucks. And they're like other things that go along with that. And this is where kind of like the bad side. But I think it's like super important to discuss is like, you got a lot of guys that aren't good money managers. Wealth creation is not taught in the fire department. So these dudes are just cash grabbing. They're getting divorced. They, you know, guys, you know, you're in a stressful environment all the time. So people pick up addictions and they just need money to support gambling and drinking and some other issues. And I'm not trying to highlight the bed, but yeah, it is kind of like related to, hey, I need to survive. I'm in survival mode all the time. How do I make extra money? And really that's what it was for me. We were working two 10 hour days, two 14 hour nights, four days off. And I said, well, why could work before my two nights off, two nights on, and then I could work my four days off and I'm working eight days a month. And now I got two jobs, and I can make all this money. Then my wife's like, hey, we want to have kids. And I'm like, like, yeah, like, but I can still work all these days. She's like, no. Like, we're gonna have to, like, figure out how to take care of our kids. And I want to stay home. And I'm like, oh. And really, that's what it is. But I do believe from the positive side, people want to help out, but then from the other side, there's a lot of need for money. And, yeah, like, we risk our lives, not only us, but police officers and military. We do not get paid a lot. Like, no high school education. It's good money, right? Like, it's a great job, good money. You're putting your life on the line. But, I mean, we should really be paid. And now that I'm on the other side, I. A thousand percent believe that all those people that are risking their lives should be paid as much as professional athletes. And I understand why they don't, but come on, man. Those guys are ready at a wrecking call to come guys and gals to come and help us. And I think that's the thing that gets lost, and that's why people are always looking to make extra money.

Yeah, well, I appreciate you saying that. And, Yeah, I mean, 100%, my. My mother was a schoolteacher, and you look at anybody that's in the public service arena. I work with doctors. There's a lot of great doctors. Some, you know, some aren't. But people in general in these different industries, obviously, doctors make more than firemen for the most part. But, yeah, you have people that want to give back and help. And, you know, I was wondering, you know, you also get a fair amount of time off, so it gives a little bit of time. So if you have an entrepreneurial bend to. You can go out there and do these other things. But I do think that's lost sometimes in the. Especially in the political landscape we're in where, you know, we've been talking about, you know, equality for women. And, you know, I think. But a lot of people forget that most of the jobs you mentioned, Ian, you know, firefighters, military, police officers, you know, the guys like our friends that are going up and climbing trees and cutting trees down and doing these things.

They're.

These are jobs where your lives are on the line every day. And how do you. You know, it's hard to measure. I don't know how you do it. Like, how do you measure the risk of losing Your life versus compensation. But it seems like it certainly is not, is not a fair balance there. So yeah, it's, it is amazing. Especially when you see these crises like the one we just went through in western North Carolina. These are all the same people, retired ex special forces, firemen, police officers, you know, these, you know, arborists and people that are going out, they're the ones that know how to save people's lives and do that.

Right. Well, and that's the thing is like you can't put a dollar amount and they try to between life insurance policies and what's your pension worth, how we're going to cover you, God forbid. And when I left the fire department, they, we wound up three people that Dan and I worked with, really close had got killed line of duty a few months after we left. And then about a year after that, a rookie of ours got killed in a fire. And it's like, dude, you can't even value that. No, I hate to say it, like, where the hurricane hit, it almost couldn't have hit in a better spot because you have people that are resourceful and like, a lot of that gets lost nowadays of like, we'll go to college and go do this and go do that and like, let's not learn life skills. And you know, I, you know, you got two boys, I got two girls. I tell them all the time. And she says the same exact thing she said, before our girls drive, they're going to learn how to change their oil, they're going to learn how to change tires. God forbid they have an issue.

Yes.

And I think life skill sets get lost. And that's why firemen and police officers and military and like those type of jobs led those guys being able to do additional side work because people do want, like, hey, that's like the local, like there's a trust factor there too. And it's like, hey, you're the local fireman. Hire you to do my landscaping and that you become trustworthy immediately. And then they're also this, the skilled labor that doesn't exist in society right now. And you know, there's, there's career paths outside of. And I have two girls. So maybe my career paths for my daughters might be a little bit different. Maybe they do have to go college bound. But I, I hope they come to me one day and just say, no, I'd rather put money into starting a business because that means I've succeeded as a parent. And I'm sure maybe you probably think something similar, like if they came home and Said, hey, trade school. Yeah, dude, great industry behind that.

Oh, and especially in today's day and age where there's. There's a dearth of that, you know, you don't have as many people going out and you. Not only if you go to trade school is it less costly than college, but you can potentially make more per hour coming out. And there's a shorter path to owning your own business, which I think is tremendous. And to your point, I think, you know, one of the things that they teach in my. My older son's school is, is the quote unquote dignity of manual labor. And like you also said, Ian, you know, this area that hit, one of the things that we heard was, hey, we need chainsaws, we need supplies, we need oil, we need fuel. We also need you to get some of these people out here that are trying to help because we can do this ourselves, which is, you know, it's. It's pretty, it's pretty impressive to hear when, you know, you have private individuals out there rebuilding the roads, the bridges, you know, removing trees from their neighbor's land and doing that. So, yeah, I really appreciate that, you know, that philosophy because, you know, it does. It does somehow sometimes get lost in the higher education realm that we're in today.

Yeah. And that's also like how we let into a path of investing in real estate, because it was like, do we trust the government? Like, I gotta trust Baltimore City to pay out my pension. Like, dude, they're a step up of Detroit. You know what I mean? And, you know, sitting there watching these guys work their whole careers and then like, risk, like, not having anything on the backside or saying, I'm going to retire and go work at Walmart. I'm like, bro, like, wow, just worked 40 years here, now you got to go work there because you didn't save enough or you're afraid the city. Like, you know, when we start, when we got hired, we hired in 07 and 08, and there was the global financial crisis, and California goes bankrupt, Detroit goes bankrupt, Private industries start going bankrupt. And it was like, oh, what are we doing here? And I'm sitting there going, man, I just traded. Like, I understand that. I traded some money in exchange for security. But now talking about furloughs, they're talking about pension system issues, they're talking about layoffs. And I'm sitting here thinking, well, I'm about to pour my life into this place and I might put my life on the line. My wife's not going to be taken care of later on in life. And you know that's really, that was one of them. And like also like start, like I mentioned earlier, starting that family.

Yeah.

Like became really important to me of like, well, if I become incapacitated or I get killed, how's my wife going to survive? And if I have a landscaping business or a trade type business for her to step in and take that over after I've just been incapacitated in whatever way you know you want to imagine that would be so stressful for her. Mature business owner, me today would say, well I could put the right people in place and she wouldn't have that issue. But me in that, in that infancy stage, I was like no, no, no. How can I make money while I'm asleep at work? And how can it be something that, God forbid something happens to me, she still gets cash flow and then she can sell it off. She can hire a property manager, she can manage it herself and take care of herself. But the most important thing she can do is take care of our family and our household and worry about what we going on. God forbid I'm not here. And that was really what started us down the road of real estate investing.

And that's a perfect segue. So let's talk about that first property because I know you do a lot in more the commercial space now, but let's talk about that first property. And that was, that was back in 2012. You bought that first property.

Yeah, end of 2012 guys. Super, super, super, super. Humble beginnings.

Yeah.

My credit score was below 600. It was 570, something like that. Don't ask why. I had 15 grand saved up in the bank, but we did and I had been meetups and reading some books and I said, and you know, we had some mutual family friends that had bought some houses and we wanted to go down the subsidized route and that's what we decided to do. So I bought my first house for $25,000.

Wow. You could do that up in Baltimore, man. I remember that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Especially post, post for global financial crisis. You can literally find anything. I didn't know what a wholesaler was, so guy made five grand on me, you know, whatever. Good. Bought the thing for 25 grand. I maybe put 25 to 30 grand. I don't know. You know, I think I was all in around 50, 60 grand. And I got a subsidized tenant at 12 $50 rent for a three bedroom one to F for something that I put together. Like I said, I don't know if I did it right. I don't know if I did it wrong, but it got done. And I got that tenant. And I was like, Holy crap, man. 1250. Even with my hard money loan, I was cash flowing 5, 600 bucks a month. And then when I refinance it, I was cash flowing almost 800 bucks a month. There was no overtime. There was like, no, like, promotion opportunities. I'm like, 800 bucks is like three overtime shifts. This is amazing. How do I do it again? And we were hooked immediately, the first one. And six months later, I bought house number two. But yeah, that, that first house I was bought, it was in the 4x4. Four blocks by four blocks. That's why they call it the 4x4.

Yeah.

The east part of Baltimore. And not the best location, not the best house. If I had it, you know, looking back at it today, would I same house today? Probably not. But you know what? I went out there, I did it, I swung the bat, and that was really what launched us into our careers, to where we are today.

I love that. I love that. Do you think you. I said you, you might not buy or you just said you might not buy that same property in that same location today, Ian. But you know, one of the challenges is, is today, you know, we're talking about what, 12 years later, you know, prices are higher, rates are higher. What do you think that house is worth today? Or do you still own it?

No. We had sold that house a few years ago for about 125 grand. So we did make money. We made cash flow. That was a win. A somebody's going to pay 50 to 70 grand for that same shell. Their cost is going to probably be, you know, 50 is 70 grand. You know, they're gonna be all in for that thing for a buck 25. And that's about. Yeah, what it's worth. But that was my original, great setup for me. My original plan was to buy 10 houses worth $150,000. And that over my 30 year firefighting career, they would get paid off cash flow. And at the very, very end, I'd have a million and a half dollars available to me 30 years from now. And it's like so silly. It's like silly looking back on it now. But that was my goal. That was my path. That's what I needed to do to work on.

So, dude, I love it. I bought a book in college called Buy and Hold.

Okay.

That was my same plan.

Now I.

My goal was a little, little, but it's 10 I was like, hey, I want $10,000 a month in cash flow coming in once I pay these mortgages off. So, yeah, very similar. And I'll never forget, actually, I was up at a meeting in the D.C. area with, you know, Sherman Ragland by chance. He did a lot in Baltimore.

Yeah, I know the name.

Yeah, yeah, this is Sherman. Sherman. Like, he. He took me into downtown Baltimore one day. You imagine this. This. This skinny white boy that race bikes, you know, in my suit, and he drags me into downtown Baltimore sitting in this. In this. Yeah, old warehouse. But, yeah, so, you know, I'll never forget. He said, well, why would you want to pay off the properties when you could refinance them or sell them? And I was like, yeah, that's a great point. You know, why would you want to do that? But to anybody listening, it's a great place to start because it gives you options. You can always refi out. You can sell that property. You can do a 1031. You know, you can do all kinds of different things with that. When did you see the light, Ian? When you said, wait a minute. There's, you know, there's a better way to do this. You know, there's different ways to do it. There's faster ways to do it.

Yeah, we. So the first 10 houses I did on my own, my business partner got jammed up. He was doing work for me. He's like, why am I working for you for f. This? And so he stuck. Yeah, he had some issues. He got jammed up on a refi on his personal house. Needed to get out of debt, so he started wholesaling, and then. Okay, he had wholesale me a house or two. Oh, yeah. That's cool what you're doing. Because I didn't. I still really didn't understand it. He comes to me one day and says, hey, man, I got these four houses. I want to wholesale three of them, and I want to flip the fourth. I want to. With you. And we grew up together outside of Philly. I've known his wife since this big, and he's known my wife since the same size. And, you know, we're close. Our families are intertwined. I was just like, all right, man, let's do it. So we wholesale the three.

Do you mind just pausing for one quick second, Ian, for those that aren't familiar with what a wholesale is, can you just explain, like, what wholesale versus retail fix and flip, those sorts of things. Those just those terms real quick.

Yeah. So, like, retail, you know, we would go to MLS, realtor,.com Zillow, right? We would just buy it right off with a realtor wholesale. There's people out there that are out there picking up contracts, you know, and saying, okay, let's just say the house is worth 100 grand. They come to me and say, hey man, like I can't be into this thing more than 70 grand. I'm willing to give you 25 because it's gonna cost you 50 to, to fix it up. And I'm like, okay, I get it, dude. And I say, sure, I'll sign my contract. And then that guy who's the quote unquote wholesaler will then turn to Chris and say, hey man, I got this great house at $35,000. I'll assign you my rights in this contract. In exchange for that, I'm going to take a $10,000 fee. And you would say, okay, sure, I'll do that deal. Because maybe you can do it a few bucks cheaper. You really like the neighborhood and so you buy it. Well, at the time of the closing, Chris picks up $10, I get my $25,000. Chris pays the extra 10 to the wholesaler and that wholesaler made 10 grand. And it's a great way to start for quote unquote, no money out of pocket, right? Like you could put up bandit signs, get leads. You can go door knocking, get leads. Like it does not cost any money to really do that. All you got to do is be willing to answer the phone, be able to use some common sense, which I guess isn't that common. I just, just started laughing. Common sense. But either way, using some your data around you to say, hey man, like I think this house is worth X, I'm going to look all the crap out of them, be willing to hear no and do that. And that's what my, that's how my business partner started. And he got really good at it. And you know, he made a couple hundred thousand bucks and got himself out of debt. Came to me, 2014, I had 10 rental properties. And he said, hey man, what I'm willing to do is let's flip the three and sell the fourth. And we made 75 grand ish on the wholesale fee and maybe another year, 60 grand on the sale of the property and we made a total of well over six figures. And I said, holy, that was cool. Can you do that again? He's like, yeah, I'll dig around. And took, yeah, took a few more months to find another house. What was coincidental is the first one was 1112 Scott street and the second one was 1112 Steelton. So I don't know 11 and 12 significant in our life, but they are. And the second one we flipped, we made another 30 or 40 grand. I said, dude, game on. And this is 2014. Like, guys, we have clue, we're at the absolute bottom and we're about to experience tailwinds. But what we were able to do is we were able to go out and raise some money. I went out and found money Dan found, and off we went and we just started flipping houses. And really that's where we started to say, holy crap, like, we can build a company while we're at work. And, you know, maybe a year into that, you know, we're flipping 30, 40 houses a year. I mean, legitimately flipping them, not wholesale. We're buying them, renovating them, and selling them at retail. We were doing to 40 houses a year and hiring employees, getting contractors to come and do it. The speed to completion was so much faster. And it was like, wow, this amazing game on. And that was really like 25th. Yeah. By the end of 2015, it was like, oh, shit, like, we have a legit company. Let's go do this. You know.

No, I love that. And that's, you know, I think a lot of people, they don't realize that there's this whole wholesale game out there. And, you know, that's how my wife and I were buying. We were buying land to build spec homes, but we got the land direct from owners where we just sent letters, dropped off note cards, did things like that. And years after we stopped doing that, and people would still call my wife and say, hey, do you still want to buy this lot or this house with a lot next door? And, you know, everybody is in a different situation. Not everybody goes through MLS or, you know, they need money quickly or, you know, they just don't want to deal with the hassle. So it's a great, it's a great option to get a good deal. And I think like you said at that point in time, it, it worked really well. Sorry, you were about to say something.

No. Yeah, no. People, people couldn't sell anything. And I didn't mean to cut you off, but like, I think, no, it's all good.

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The important message here is, like, it's a tool in the toolbox, right? Like, and that was one thing, being a fireman. There's plan A, plan B, plan C, plan D. And we're staying here until this fire is out, right? Like, that's the one competitive advantage that we had. And it's like, all right, this going out. Well, we got to stay here until this fire's out, and then we'll relinquish it back to the building. It was the same thing in our business. It's like, yo, there's a fire burning. Let's go put it out, dude. We just wholesaled a house. The other day, someone called, and we made 60 grand in a matter of, like, five minutes, right? Like, granted, it was an existing relationship. Past fireman, who we had worked with his uncle, received a house, told me exactly what he wanted for it. We said, yep, that makes sense. Looked it up, said, wow, that's. You want 130? I think I can get 195. Then hung up the phone. I didn't even do it. My. My. My. My operations manager did it. Ryan picks up the phone, calls our other buddy, and says, hey, I got this house. Yeah, I'll give you a buck 95 for it. Cool. Made 60 grand like that. But here's the thing. If I would have said, no, right? We don't do that. We only do commercial real estate. Sorry, buddy, you're out. Like, I missed out on 60 grand. It's not my primary way to make income. Not my primary source of income. But when the leads come to you, it's like, okay, what do you do with them? And, you know when you were saying about your wife still getting phone calls, it's like, how cool is that, dude? Like, you marketed forever. And, like, you still have this extra revenue stream that comes in. You know what yeah, let me, I, I know a guy that'll buy that. Let me flip that real quick.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah. And it's building up that pipeline. So, you know, you just said that, you know, that's not your primary business. Now tell the audience what you and Dan are up to now and how you've scaled your business into what it is today.

Yeah, so we primarily invest in commercial real estate. The majority of it's in self storage and industrial, but we do apartment buildings, office, and you know, a little bit of everything. Some ground up stuff. Right. Like in the end we're opportunistic investors is really what we are. You know, if you looked at our portfolio, it'd be like, you guys don't concentrate on one, but we do, you know what we're really good at and like a piece of the timeline that we kind of skipped is like we started flipping houses and then we built a rental portfolio and we flipped built, you know, 300 houses in a really short period of time. We got really, really, really good at construction and then we applied that same skill set to commercial real estate. Yeah, the difference was I didn't have to do 300 houses. I could do one gigantic project or two gigantic projects in one year and make tenfold the money. And that's what was really exciting about commercial real estate. The other cool thing about that with self storage and industrial and apartment buildings is what is I can get my friends and family involved. Because as we started to have success and we started taking more time off of work and then we finally left our jobs, everybody was like, yo dude, what's up? Like what's doing? Like, I don't, I don't get it. And we're like, did you, I was like, hey man, invest in this like $150,000 row home in Baltimore? And like we're gonna 300amonth cash flow if everything else goes right. Like nobody wants to be a part. Like yeah, they, some people do, but like there's no scale there when I'm like, yo dude, you know? 76 unit apartment building up the street from so and so Firehouse on White Avenue. Yeah, dude, I always noticed that place. What's up with it? Yeah, well, we're buying it. Oh, one in, right? Like so not only was it scale for us, but it was scale for our friends and family to get involved with us and be able to co invest and co lend with us, which is way more impactful than a lot of other things that we can do. Right. Like, and yes, I think that's what's important about it is that helping not only ourselves, you know?

Yeah, no, I love that. I love that. And that's really. That's what has been driving us the past several years, because, you know, you know, people want to know how they can do that, especially when, you know, people that have such a servant mentality as you guys do, Ian. And then ultimately, how old are your girls now, if you don't mind me asking?

Yeah, mine are 10 and going on six, so.

Yeah. Awesome. So you'll. Yeah, you'll get to teach them how to build wealth, how to create wealth and do those things. And, you know, that's one of the things I wanted to touch on earlier, which is, you know, I think it's so important to teach the next generation, like. Like I was saying, the. The dignity of manual labor and, you know, how to undergo, you know, some of these challenges. It's one of the things I love about having my boys in sports because, you know, they get beat up, they learn how to lose. You know, I there in lacrosse. I love the fact that not everybody's a winner. There's winners, there's losers. And we were up actually in Baltimore for a lacrosse tournament this summer, and my younger son made it to the championship, and they lost. And he came off the field and he was crying, and, you know, because he. He cared. And I. I love that. And I said to him, I said, you know, you might not know this right now, but this is exactly what was supposed to happen. He looked at me like I was crazy. And I said, you know, I said, miles is his name. I said, you know, it's just as important to win as it is. Or is it just as important to lose as it is to win, especially in these early days, to understand that you can go back and have that, you know, that fire in your belly and do that. And I think that it's. It's those things. It's those experiences, you know. You know. You know. You know, scraping, you know, scraping by, like you were saying, you know, having, you know, growing up in an environment where, you know, my grandmother made my clothes for me and getting made fun of, you know, at school every day and saying, you know what? There's. There's got to be a better way to do this and having those things, I think that's the real challenge. How do you balance those things, Ian, with your family, you know, giving your girls a tremendous future, but also kind of teaching them some of the lessons that. That you and I had to learn, you know, the hard way, so to speak.

You know, I've, I've asked this same question in mastermind rooms where there's been like, more successful people than me. I'm like, yo, bro, like, you come from the same kind of background. Like, how do you instill that in your kids? And yeah, you know, a lot of people are just like, hey, it's honesty and transparency and just showing them what you're doing. And this morning I was, I was having a conversation with my podcast co host. I was like, hey, Jay, I said, you know, I think the definition of success is like, if your kids want to come and work for your company, right? Because, like, my wife grew up a family that was entrepreneurial. She didn't want to go work for the family business. And there was like this resentment because they, they were forced to do it rather than being like, hey, this is, this is how we make money. Or like, do you want the opportunity to earn money in this fashion? And there was like, almost like forced labor. And so there was some resentment in regards to that. So for me, like, showing them just like a good life and get good life experiences and the fact that we're, we have the ability, we've choose, chosen to homeschool, and it's been one of the greatest experiences. And while I think they're probably just a little young, my 10 year old's just starting to get it, you know, because she's playing kids with people that go to public school and private school. And when we go to Charleston for a week in the middle of the school year, she's like, well, wait, how, how, what's going on? So we're just starting to have those conversations and I think that experience, the time freedom, like, you know, in the end, and this is probably like a twofold sort of another question is like, what's success? It's really just freedom of time. It has nothing to do with money. I think if everybody has, you know, you know, time freedom, that's really what success is. If you could show your kids that, and who knows, maybe they don't want to work for a family business. But if they know that, like, hey, this is important to me and I put that first and then I can build a career around that. Yes, then let's go. And it's taken me a lot of years shaking my old identity as a fireman to realize, like, hey, this is the important stuff to me that makes me tick. And you know, I've heard it in a lot of other rooms. I'm like, yeah, that's silly. And now I'm like, ah, those guys were right. They're just like, well, you know what it, you got to learn it yourself, right?

That's right. So no, I love that. And I was looking, I was looking at your Monopoly man in the back and you know, we got, we got Monopoly pieces on the front of our book and we're actually playing Monopoly with our boys this past weekend at a lacrosse tournament. And it was fun because, you know, we were buying that they were buying the properties and the houses and they, you know, they see us doing it in real life. And if, look, if you're, if you're a new listener to the show, we have five steps to help teach your kids to be money pros@nextlevelincome.com forward slash kids, nextlevel income.com kids. You'll get a free copy of the chapter right out of this book, no Problem Parenting, that I co authored here. But Ian, for, for those listeners that want to learn more about what you and Equity Warehouse are doing, what's the best way to get in touch with you to learn more?

Yeah, the best way to track us down is equity warehouse.com you can learn how we co invest and co lend with all of our friends and family. We'll show you lots of five case studies of exactly what we've done. I'm on all the social media network Equity Warehouse. I do think I just updated my Instagram to Ian Horowitz. But we do have an Equity Warehouse page most active on Instagram. If you want to track down, definitely respond. And yeah, we're out there just giving back and I want to see other people succeed. I have a near and dear my heart is first responder financial freedom and I want to see, you know, if you're a first responder under please reach out. But anybody, don't be shy. If I never reached out to the person who reached out to, I wouldn't be sitting here today.

So yeah, Ian, I love that. Thank you for that. And yeah, check out Ian and his team at Equity Warehouse. They're doing great things. Ian, thank you so much for sharing your story. It's been a wonderful conversation and yeah, hopefully we get to get to see each other in person sometime. Whether I'm up there in the Baltimore, Philly area. If you and your family are over down in Asheville as we kind of stabilize, let us know.

Will do. I can't wait for it.

Hey, Chris, here again. I hope you found this episode valuable. Now I have one more thing to gift you we have a page for my coaching clients where you can get a free copy of my book as well as much more from previous guests on the show. Just check out nextlevelincome.com coaching to get a free copy of my book, audiobook and much more. I'll send you a copy of my book and cover all the shipping costs as a thank you for listening to the podcast. Also, please like share and take just 90 seconds to give us a rating on Apple Podcasts.