Ep 234: Optimizing Your Health with Dr. Doug Lucas

To you to 64 and then over 65, it gets a little harder. But honestly, I would say depending on how physiologically young somebody is. Yeah, way through 70s, for the most part, we're going to be okay. And then it just gets a little bit trickier in the 80s. I don't think we have anybody in their 90s. No, that might. That's not true. I think we have one man in his early 90s.

Welcome to the Next Level Income show, where it's our goal to take your income, your investments and your life to the next level. I'm your host, Chris Larson. If you haven't yet, get a copy of our book for free at our website, Next Level Income.com. that's www.nextlevelincome.com. just click on the book link and I'll even send you a copy if you put your address in. On today's show, we welcome back Dr. Doug Lucas with Optimal Human Health. Dr. Lucas has been my personal physician. He's also become a personal friend of mine. He's helped me optimize not only my physical health, but also my mental health. And today he's going to talk about specifically how to optimize your bone health. So if you want to improve your health as we go into the new year, stay tuned for this show. Share it with any friends that you may have that want to do the same. All right, Dr. Doug, welcome back to the Next Level Income show.

Hey, Chris, nice to see you again.

Yeah, it's great to see you as well. And, yeah, I'm excited to get you back on the show here. As we get into the new year, I know a lot of people, as the new year approaches, they make their new Year's resolutions. And, you know, one of the big things that, that people like to focus on is their health. And I know we talk a lot about money on this show, but we've had you on multiple times because, you know, as we work with our coaching clients, the first thing we actually talk about is health. And, you know, if you can, if you can buy more time, you know, that means you can have more time to work, you can have more time to invest, you can grow your wealth, but more importantly, that's time that you can spend on things, things that you love. So, Dr. Lucas, I would love for you to share a little bit about what you do with your business. And, you know, for those listeners that may be new to the show that haven't heard you here before.

Yeah, thanks. So, yeah, it's been a while. So unless Your listeners are listening continuously over the course of years. This is probably new to them, but I am an orthopedic surgeon by training. But I left that model in around 2019 and started an integrative practice called Optimal Human Health MD. And the original intent was to work with individuals like yourself who really want to optimize, just have a better health span, live better longer, feel better, perform better, all those things. And we still do that to some extent. But funny thing happened three years ago, shortly after we started, really, is that we started attracting a lot of people with osteoporosis. And it was because of my background in orthopedics and the approach that we were doing in the osteoporosis space. People generally want to try to avoid the drugs and reverse it naturally, which is totally possible. So we kind of shifted our a little bit and shifted some of the labs and our approach in our team to accommodate individuals with osteoporosis. And that is really pretty much all we do in that practice now. So now we have Optimal Bone Health program within the company called Optimal Human Health md. And that's the bulk of the work that we do. But out of that has grown two fun things. So out of that has grown something called the Osteo Collective, which is a community, an international community now of individuals with osteoporosis who are kind of DIY their own bone health. And so we have spent a lot of time, energy, resources in building out this community. And it's awesome. It's one of the most fun things I get to part in because we're watching people just proactively go after it, and it's really fun to see. The third thing would be our hormone company called Pema Biodiversity. And that's a hormone company really mostly marketed towards perimenopause and postmenopausal women, because we see so many women in the space of bone health that just can't access to care. So we took our telehealth platform and just put that out there as a hormone company. Again, different team, different approach, but working really well for women that need those tools.

Yeah, no, I love it. And look, full disclosure, you've been my doctor here now for a few years and have had great results. You work with my wife as well, and, you know, I can share with the audience, but talk a little bit about, you know, how what you do is different than how most people interact with the healthcare system. So most people, they have their insurance and they look up and say, oh, I can go, you know, down the Hill to Dr. Smith and he's in network and I'm going to go see him. I'm going to have blood work done every year or two and you know, if I have a problem, I'll go see him. You guys are way different than that, right?

Yeah. So when I was thinking about jumping ship from the conventional medical system, I talked to a different people and different, different modes of trying to provide care. And ultimately most doctors just they want to provide care the way that they want to care for patients and gets in the way. I mean, there's just no question, ask any doctor if insurance gets in the way of the way they want to care for their patients and I guarantee you the answer is yes. So I got out of that, the conventional model. I realized that I couldn't use insurance if I wanted to be able to talk to patients for as long as I wanted to. If I to order the lab test that I felt like I needed to order, if I wanted to be able to do the interventions that I wanted to do, insurance would just get in the way. So we went down the cash based path and I wish there was another way, but there just isn't. If you want to do some of these health optimization things that we're going to talk about, it has to be in the cash base, it has to be outside of the medical model. So we went down that pathway and created a model that is really driven around sort of a membership style. So you know, for your doctor, you go to your doctor, you see them for maybe five minutes and they do a quick checkup and then they usually prescribe a drug if you have a problem, that's our system and that's not wrong. That's just the way our system is designed. So I feel like if we want to help prevent disease, if we want to help people to optimize their health beyond what care can do, then we have to have time to sit down and talk to the patient. We have to have at least an hour, we have to have frequent back and forth, we have to get more biomarkers, we have a team of dietitians and coaches to help do all the things that the traditional system won't pay for. So we created this, this model where we can do all these things and we can all under the roof of a single membership price. And that way we've been able to help people to achieve their health optimization goals.

Yeah, no, I love it. And like I said, I've been through it and you know, for, for those that are listening, it's what's different is, you know, normally we wait till there's a problem and, you know, we're in pain or we have a, you know, an acute injury or, you know, some. You have a heart attack and you're like, oh, let's go see, like, why this happened. And I think it's akin to, you know, having your car breakdown or even have a car accident. And, you know, it's amazing, right? We have amazing surgeons, probably some of the best surgeons and doctors in the world here in the United States. Amazing technology. You know, you and I both got to interact in that, in that surgical space, which is, it's really cool. But, you know, I started to, you know, I started to talk to, you know, the doctors, the surgeons that I was working with. And, you know, you saw this as well and you realized that, wait, what if, what if this person was 30 pounds lower in weight? You know, what if they lost weight first? And I started to look at the outcomes and you see that a 10% reduction, you know, in mass or 10 pound reduction in joints and those things has this massive impact. And it's like, how come we're not looking at that? So what's really cool is what, what doctor, Dr. Doug does is they look forward and they prevent a lot of these issues. And I've seen it. I've had, I've had friends, you know, I've referred to you and seen them reduce their issues, you know, their osteoporosis issues and different things. And you're very holistic in terms of, you know, the diet, you know, in addition to the other, you know, things like peptides and hormones and all those things that can, that can make a big difference. You know. The other thing is you've helped me optimize my mental performance. So, you know what, what I found over time is that if I eat the right foods for my body, for my genetics, and. Do you have all of your patients go through genetic testing, Dr. Lucas?

We, we used to and we don't anymore. Just because we found that some people weren't interested or they were concerned about privacy. And so we just, we eliminated the need to do it for everyone. And so now we just do it for those that are interested. I always want it. It's always helpful, but not everybody wants to do it.

Yeah, no, I mean, it's. I learned a lot. You know, when you figure out what, what works for your body to eat, you know, you can optimize, you know, your mental, you know, your mental acuity as well as your body Composition. What have you seen in terms of diet and how it relates to bone health specifically for women? Because, you know, I know there's, you know, there's healthy diets that are out there. What have you found and what have you learned with your patient population in terms of diet and how that affects their bone health?

Yeah, so we see some very consistent trends in diet with people that have osteoporosis and usually osteoporosis, you also have lost muscle mass, so you have this thing called sarcopenia. So osteoporosis and sarcopenia kind of go hand in hand. And there is, there are both lifestyle things as well as nutrition patterns that go along with this. And you can talk about extremes of diet, but in general, especially women are, they are generally under eating protein if not under eating calories and energy altogether. And it's just the, it's kind of like the diet culture that we're in with women just wanting to always be lean, lean, lean as a group. Not all women, of course, but there just is the trend to say, well, I just want to be lean. And I love this new trend of saying that women need strong before they need to be lean. Right. And so they're eating more, they're eating more protein. They're actually doing resistance training. And that's the thing that also is absent in the osteoporosis group is a history of doing any kind of impact or resistance training. Sometimes they are athletes, sometimes they're endurance runners, cyclists, swimmers, because those activities can lead to bone loss. But a lot of times they just haven't done any kind of activity. It just wasn't part of their life. And so result of poor nutrition, poor movement choices, they end up losing muscle and bone and end up in a bad space in their, you know, 40s, 50s and 60s.

Yeah, no, I've seen that. I've had, I've had friends, I think I've shared the story with you. Like, I mean, I'm talking about elite level cyclists, like national, even world class caliber cyclists for their ages. And they find out I'm osteopenic, like one step away from osteoporosis. And these are, I mean, these are men, you'd be, you'd be like, you'd be in, in, you know, envious of their, their physical composition. But what, what happens is because of that lack of impact, you know, like sitting at a desk and I was actually just trying to stand up at my standing desk here, but I kept probably laughing as I was trying to get up. It Was something was getting stuck. I was getting a little bit of a. A malfunction here. But yeah, this particular individual was essentially sedentary when he wasn't on his bicycle. And he was put on osteoporosis medication in his early 40s. And what he did was he changed his diet. He started hiking again with a backpack and doing resistance training. Within six months, he totally reversed it. What are some of the top things that individuals can do for their bone health?

I think number one is identification. You know, like, what is your bone density? And we're actually fortunate. Here in Asheville, we have, we have a device called a Rams, a chiropractor named Mike Lewin up in Black Mountain. And so he has this REMS device, which is an ultrasound, which tells you about both density and quality, which is really important. Most people, though, have access to dexa. So we have to use DEXA because people have access to it, and it tells you about bone density. Knowing your starting point is, hands down, the most important thing. And this is for. And pay attention to this. If you zoned out, this is true for any adult. Doesn't matter if you're 20 years old, 30, 40, 50, and on up, know what your bone density is, because you need to know what your starting point is. I hear so many times people say, well, oh my gosh, well, why am I losing bone? And I'm like, well, when was your last? I don't. I never had one. I'm like, well, we don't know what your bones started out, you know, so I can guess that you're losing bone. But it's important to have a trend, and knowing what your starting point is is a really good way to do that. So that's not. But let's assume then somebody has osteoporosis and they need to reverse it or even osteopenia and their bones continuing to get worse and they want to bend that corner and turn the other direction. So then the three big things are going to be nutrition, exercise, and hormone optimization. So the nutrition part, we kind of hit it already. We said that people are protein deficient. So now we need to talk about being protein forward. So they need to get adequate protein, probably somewhere around 1 gram per pound of ideal body weight and preferably from animal sources. And then the rest of the diet, you can kind of fill in with whatever you want. And after that, as long as it's a low inflammatory, not an ultra processed food diet, I kind of don't care. I prefer to be whole foods. I prefer to have nice fresh organic fruits and vegetables along with your animal protein. And aside from that, that's probably all you actually need. So getting adequate food, adequate energy from good sources is hard. So this is actually probably the hardest thing that people do. And then the second thing is exercise. So we take a population of women and men who have oftentimes never exercised and then teach them from the ground, how do you lift a weight? How do you, you know, ultimately we want to get you to lifting barbells and doing things like a deadlift and a back squat. And that is yeah, realistic by most measures. But I can tell you in our patients and our community, I mean we've seen hundreds and hundreds of people go through this, that they work their way up to that takes a long time, don't do it tomorrow. But that's the kind of work that you need to be doing to maintaining muscle and bone, learning how to do impact. So like heel drops or box jumps or simulated impact and other ways like those are really important tools to be able to drive the bone, to want to make more bone. We have to be doing some kind of impact and then optimizing hormones. It doesn't matter if it's just testosterone for men or hormone replacement for women. Those are probably two of the powerful tools on top of the lifestyle.

Interesting. Yeah. So, yeah, diet is key. So whether you're, you know, I used to say when I was training reps and you got to work with reps in the or I said you need to eat like a professional athlete. You need to, you know, to, to, to fuel your body because if you want to perform at the, at a highest level. So if you're listening, you're like, ah, Chris, I don't race bikes. I'm not, you know, I don't lift as much as, as Dr. Doug and do these things. That doesn't mean that eating like a professional athlete can't benefit you. Which means you can perform better early in the morning. You can get, get a better workout in the gym. You can be a better husband or father or, or you know, mother or wife or, or just perform better in your, your day to day job. You know, get, be more productive. And that's really a big thing, the exercise. Yeah, I saw it when I did my DEXA scan, you know, doing you know, heavier weights and, but I mean doing a deadlift may seem a bit, you know, overwhelming to somebody that's never done it. But like, I mean you could start with like touching your toes and just using the right form and learning like I remember I learned how to lift, like how to place my feet properly, the proper placement of the knees and all those things which can be beneficial not just for lifting, but also just for injury prevention. Right, well, right.

I mean, just think about, like, if you have young children or if you have grandchildren, like, how do you bend down? That's a deadlift.

Right.

So, yeah, like, learning these, learning this form is really, really important. And I think the big challenge here too, for people that have osteoporosis, this, especially if they've been considered, quote, unquote, frail, meaning like their doctor said, oh my gosh, don't bend forward and touch your toes. You know, so then they're like, oh, really? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Doctors, they're very conservative around activity for people with osteoporosis because they don't want them to fracture. But you have to do some kind of activity in order to improve your bone health. Unless you're just going to rely on the drug, of course, is what most doctors are going to recommend. So there's this big gray area as far as people that recognize, oh my gosh, I need to do something, but my doctor told me not to lift five pounds. But Dr. Doug said I need to do a back squat with, you know, 85% of my one rep max. I don't even know what that means. So it's like, there's a really big challenge for especially older women to get into the phase of weightlifting. But there are a lot of resources out there to help them get there.

Yeah, no, I've been going to a CrossFit gym for over a decade now. And what's cool is they have a whole section dedicated for individuals. And actually take my stepfather there, who's 71 and he's working with a trainer there and he's, you know, he was doing step ups and then, you know, next week he moves up to weighted step ups and he's going through these movements and these motions, which is, which is really cool. So, yeah, if you haven't ever worked out, there's so many, so many options now, whether it's YouTube or, you know, going to a CrossFit gym or just your local Y where you can make, make a difference. Is there an age, Dr. Doug, where you see that it's just too late? You know, it doesn't make sense to do any of this. Like, what are, what are some of your oldest patients like, how old are they and where, you know, what kind of improvements have you seen with your program? Are you a high income business owner? Or professional earning 2, 300,000 or even more a year but still feel like you're living paycheck to paycheck. Are you comfortable working until you're 65 or 70 to retire? Or do you want to achieve financial independence and live life on your own terms? You could join myself and Matt F4 and learn how we both became financially independent in our early 30s. We will teach you how to make, keep and grow your money. Teaching you strategies to maximize your earnings, keep your income that you've earned through tax strategy and legal structures, and ultimately teach you how to grow it by determining your personal investing strategy as well as teach you how to analyze investments so you can grow your passive income to the point to live life on your own terms. Our coaching clients reliably do this in seven years or less. To learn more, check out our coaching program at nextlevelincome.com forward/coaching. That's nextlevelincome.com forward slash coaching.

Yeah, so age is not as important as the ability to do some of the tools like HRT hormone replacement for women. But we find that sort of over the age of 80, it's less likely we're going to see as impressive a result. We see patients in their 80s that do, they do improve, it's just slower. And one of the reasons for that is that if they've never been on hormone replacement therapy and they're 30 years out from that, it's probably just too risky to start at that point. But if you back away from that and you get into women in their 70s, we've got some rockstar 70 year olds who are just improving bone health. They feel great, they're improving their muscle mass, they just, they're like just blown away by how good they feel. So I, I think, you know, like we, we sort of say like you know, the 64 and then over 65 it gets a little harder. But honestly I would say depending on how physiologically young somebody is. Yeah, all the way through 70s for the most part we're going to be okay. And then it just gets a little bit trickier in the 80s. I don't think we have anybody in their 90s. No, that might, that's not true. I think we have one woman in his early 90s.

Incredible. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, my mother in law is in her, her mid-70s. She still goes to the gym. You know, she, she was a runner for a long time. She's had a hip replacement. And you know, it is amazing to see, you know what she's able to do and you know, compared to somebody that, you know, just, just is, is. Is sedentary, you know, to a large effect. And you brought up something. Now, I know medicine, you know, it's changed a lot over the last 10, 20 years with, you know, would you call it personalized medicine, which you guys do. Is that a.

That's, that's one way to call it precision medicine. Personalized medicine. Yeah. There's a lot of words there.

Yeah. So, yeah, you know, the concierge, precision personalized medicine. We've seen a lot of this, but you've brought this up a couple times. Hormone replacement therapy. I know I've seen stuff where it's been restricted, you know, from, from use here in certain moments and then over the past few years. But I, I just texted you, I saw a, a text from RFK Jr and he was talking about several different things, but one of the things he brought up was peptides. And I know there's a lot of different compounds. There's hormones, there's peptides, there's, you know, sarms, there's a bunch of other stuff out there. What are some of the most exciting, you know, kind of, kind of pharmaceutical or biotechnical technological technologies you've seen? And what do you, what do you think is going to happen as we see, you know, this new administration come in, you know, and some of the shift potentially away from the traditional pharmaceutical industry, which, for the record, I'm a fan of shifting away from that and, you know, turning the chapter into some of these new options that are out there. What are you excited about?

Yeah, so, you know, I was, I was excited to see that conversation come to light. And, you know, I think RFK has done a great job of bringing it to light also. Casey and Kelly Means are out there, you know, kind of having the same conversation. Right. What they're pointing out is just that our system, and we all know this, but our system has grown over the last whatever hundred years to essentially be a, a revolving wheel that leads to pharmaceuticals. And that's just the way the system was built. And that's, you know, you might say, like nefarious, and there was ill intent there. But actually, if you go Back to the 1920s, most people died of, of infectious disease. So actually the system, that system makes sense in that environment. But now with chronic disease being the biggest thing, and this is what hear RFK talking about, you know, we need to look at chronic disease and like, what are the contributing factors? Because our conventional system does not Do a good job of doing that. You can't do that in that system. You can't look at the lifestyle factors, you can't look at alternative treatment options that can be covered by insurance. And so our system just doesn't have the capacity to do it. So having a conversation to say, well, how can we shift away from that medical system? Not so much to leave it in the dust because like you said earlier, it does some amazing things. And I would even say the pharmaceutical industry does some things too. There's time and a place, however, when we have a disease. Like osteoporosis is such a perfect example. Most especially women go through menopause, they're 52, they get screened for whatever reason, they get a diagnosis, they go to their doctor, they get put on a pill, just like your friend, right? And so that is the solution in the conventional medical. But a 52 year old woman has, for the most part, unless there's some rare exception here, every capacity to do the lifestyle things, the nutrition, the exercise, the hormones, all the other things that can help reverse osteoporosis naturally. But yet that conversation has never even had. So then to be able to shift away from that and say, okay, for chronic diseases, how do we actually support a system that's not even like my practice, but how can we support a big system that can actually do this on scale and I don't know.

And incentivize it? Yeah, right.

Well, and that's, and that's the thing. I had a conversation recently where they were talking about, they were, this, this person was upset that their doctor, you know, wouldn't talk about lifestyle. And I said, look, they don't get paid to talk lifestyle. Right? And that's, and that doesn't mean that they don't want to, but they actually have to produce RVUs or dollars, whichever they're get, they get paid by. So we need to find the system to be able to incentivize providers or at least, you know, pay them to do the job that they know how to do. At that point of actually looking at the lifestyle side and using all of these tools, you just mentioned a bunch of them. There are so many tools that are out there that the pharmaceutical industry doesn't like and therefore there's lobbying against. And then you have government agencies which, you know, you could argue they push against them because they're influenced or whatever.

But in the end another revolving door opens.

Oh well, for sure. And then it, but in the end you just have a suppression of things that can't become pharmaceuticals. So for people that aren't aware, the pharmaceutical industry doesn't want to research a natural occurring product like for example, like these peptides. Let's talk about peptides. Right?

Yeah.

So like BPC157 is a popular peptide that has been used either orally for gut health or it can be used in, through injections for either, you know, local musculoskeletal stuff or potentially around joints. Some people even use it in the. But it has a remarkable healing potential. But yet, because it's a naturally occurring compound and there's not a way to, you know, make it in a new delivery, they can't ever patent that compound, that, that peptide. Because they can't patent the peptide, they're not going to spend the, what is ultimately, you know, one to two billion dollars to create a pharmaceutical.

Yeah, right.

So, so you can't say. It can't like point your finger at them and say, well, you know, you need to, you need to produce this drug because they would lose massive amounts of money. So it's the system that needs to be changed in that way. But then how do we support these things that are naturally occurring and hormones are right in there as well, like estradiol, naturally occurring microns, progesterone, naturally occurring, testosterone, naturally occurring. So how do we produce these things in a way that we can provide them at scale in a safe way? Now, the peptide conversation is probably the most interesting side of this because the fda, under pressure from wherever FDA has always viewed peptides, at least my experiences, they view them negatively and their goal essentially would be to wipe them out and not have them be available. And they've, you know, there's been sort of waves and waves of the FDA coming through and telling compounding pharmacists they can't make these compounds not because they have evidence that they're unsafe, but simply because they, they don't want them on the market for. And then they give some kind of reason and it's unfortunate because these compounds, like, you know, let's go back to the pandemic when thymos and alpha so really popular immune peptide. So I, there are, I know lots of people who have, you know, chronic Lyme, chronic fatigue syndrome, like some of these really like funky chronic diseases that can get better under some circumstances, but some people live with them for decades or for the rest of their life. Something like thymos and alpha can make a big difference for some of these patients. And yet because of claims that were made around the virus, the FDA came in and Wiped it out. So nobody is allowed to now make thymos and alpha and resell it. So the FDA has that power to do that. So what's interesting about RFK then is his goal is to say, well, let's take a look at what the FDA had control over. And then how do we. Without losing the safety that we have, how do we open this up so that we can get some of these compounds in which. Which do have research behind them, do have human research. Not as big as a. As a pharmaceutically driven, funded, you know, multimillion dollar study, but they have safety data, they have out data on humans. It's reasonable to use these things in clinical practice. So that's kind of how we've been doing it with peptides.

No, I love that. I didn't know some of that stuff, but I have heard like, of thymus and alpha and, um, it kind of up. It kind of. What is a. It was described to me like, it teaches. It puts your immune system almost like on, on the front lines. Like special forces.

Yeah, it. It messes with your T cells. And so for, for people that have, like, chronic Lyme, for example, they're t. I'm gonna say this wrong, so I apologize, but I think it's the, the T helper cells. I'll probably say this wrong, but the T1 versus T2 ratio is what it, it plays with. And so it can have an impact on your ability to, to. To function with your immune system. And I did say wrong. It's TA1. So thymosin alpha one. For those that are pointing at me right now.

Checking you. Yeah, checking you. Well, that's okay. Yeah, we can, we can go, we can go factory. Yeah. But I think the, the big thing is, and it's. This is what I try to teach my, My boys, which, you know, my family, you know, they're 14 and 12 right now, and I tell them, like, hey, food. Food is a drug. And if you can, you know, watch, you know, pay attention to your diet, eat properly, you can avoid a lot of these issues. I'll tell a quick story as we kind of wrap up here. I was, I was working. I was actually working for Pfizer for a couple years, and so I kind of, I learned a lot about the industry coming out of college and in the, in the pharmaceutical space, you. You go to a lot of offices, you do lunches to spend time with the doctors, to be able to, you know, have conversations. You know, you have an expense account. So maybe I would bring some coffees to an office to, you know, effectively bribe the front office staff to let me have, have a few minutes with the surgeon, you know, and then I would go out to dinners a lot too, because I might bring, you know, a surgeon like yourself in to sit down with a primary care doctor to have a conversation about, you know, one of our orthopedic medications. And I had chronic sinusitis. I couldn't, I couldn't breathe. So I go to ent surgeon. He says, you need surgery. Chris shows me my mri. It's like, well, that's no good. I was like, I don't want surgery. I've never had surgery. And I started doing some research and I learned that a lot of things that I was eating were very inflammatory and that inflammation was preventing me from really being able to breathe properly. So I cut out dairy, I cut out wheat, I cut out red wine, you know, diet sodas. And a month later I, I didn't have any sinus issues. So I go for my follow up, my pre surgical follow up with the surgeon and he said, what, what happened? I said, what do you mean? He goes, you don't have any issues like you don't need surgery anymore? Because I've never seen this before. I said, well, I cut out dairy, I cut out wheat, I cut out red wine, I cut out diet Cokes in the afternoon. And, you know, I eat salads now. I, you know, maybe have a glass of red wine, but I don't have those coffees in the afternoon with, you know, the lattes. And he's like, I don't know what to say. But, you know, you don't have a problem anymore. And it went away forever after that. So, you know, start with your diet, look at your exercise regimen. And then, you know, obviously, you know, now we have the ability to test hormones and, and see how those work. Dr. Lucas, if, if listeners want to, want to, one, get a hold of you, learn more about what you can do and how they can opt their health, but also two, look at your community and the amazing amount of educational resources you have out there. Share a little bit about that for the audience, please.

Yeah, so if you're into social media, YouTube is our biggest outlet right now. So the Dr. Doug show on YouTube is mostly about bone health and hormones. So that's, that's the best to go. If you're, if that's what you're interested in. If you want to look at services, then our website, optimalhumanhealth.com is going to have kind of access to both Osteocollective as well as the optimal bone health program. And then hormones. Is PEMA bioidentical? I know there's a lot of things.

But PEMA bio have all this in the show notes. So if anybody's listening and they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down, we'll have it all.

Too many here for you.

Yeah, yeah.

So that's, that's the hormone company. And again, that is a sort of same so membership style. It's going to be cash for services, potentially insurance for, for the actual hormones, depending on what you end up using. A really great way to get access to hormone replacement therapy for people that have been denied it for whatever reason. Not to say that we give it to everyone, but we have a different perspective because we work with a different population.

Yeah. Well, I can tell you, you've helped change my life. You've helped change the health and life of my family. I know you guys live it yourself. Dr. Lucas basically lives out on a farm. He's got chickens and food and he's got an amazing family. So, Dr. Lucas, thank you very much for sharing your wisdom, your knowledge with our audience today. And if you're listening, check him out, check him out on YouTube. He's got amazing stuff out there. Check out optimalhumanhealth.com if you want to learn more about his practice. And we wish everybody listening, amazing. End of the year, wonderful holiday season and do something for your health. Do something for yourself and your family going forward.

Yeah. Thanks, Chris.

Thank you. Hey, Chris, here again. I hope you found this episode valuable. Now I have one more thing to give to you. We have a page for my coaching clients where you can get a free copy of my book as well as much more from previous guests on the show. Just check out nextlevelincome.com coaching to get a free copy of my book, audiobook and much more. I'll send you a copy of my book and cover all the shipping costs as a thank you for listening to the podcast. Also, please like share and take just 90 seconds to give us a rating on Apple Podcasts.