Episode 3: Cold War Friends, More Verified Data, Hopeful Conversations & What We Can All Do

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to another edition of Win with Webb, More Curious Than George, episode 3. Did my best Bruce Buffer. I am enjoying his announcing, the charisma, the style, the stage presence. Uh, really, really cool stuff. Regardless if you're in the UFC or not, you should definitely check it out. It will get you hyped whether you're going on a big run or you're about to bake the world's best lasagna. Whatever it may be, all good things. So on this episode, we're going to show a movie clip that I think epitomizes what I'm hopefully trying to get across and get us to be a little more thoughtful about. How do we have two people on different ends of a polarizing subject learn to approach that conversation differently and come at things differently? And how can there be understanding in those types of situations? From there, we'll dive into some more headlines, data, and show how we need to always continually just be verifying the truth in what we're seeing and reading. Uh, we'll look at some interactions that I think spark some sense of hope, and we'll look at a couple examples of maybe where this can go, uh, what's been happening here in the Twin Cities, and lastly end with a little levity and maybe a reminder as to what all of this is really all about. And this is a key thing that I've told multiple people that have reached out to me. This is not, I repeat, not political. To me, this is a humanitarian issue, how people are being treated. We think about civil rights and basic human rights and things that a lot of us that are sitting like where I'm sitting, or maybe listening to where you're listening, can take for granted. Unfortunately, of late, if you have a certain skin color and you look a certain way, there's a really good chance you're being profiled differently. And that is not okay. We're in flippin' 2026. I am not okay with that. I don't know, tons of other people, hopefully you're not either, but the reality is it's happening. And there's plenty of folks out there that it's easier to just kind of put your head down, keep doing your work and et cetera. Cause you know, how can I change it? How can I do anything? Well, I would challenge you and say, have conversations with people. Learn, approach with compassion of the heart, and think about how your words and your encouragement and even just listening can really be a powerful thing. So without further ado, let's dive in. Alrighty, so we've got Bridge of Spies, Cold War era, Russia, U.S., completely different ideologies coming into conflict, tenseness, right? The war that didn't happen but really could have. I still have, you know, high school that has Cold War— I can't even talk— Cold War era bomb shelters. Crazy, crazy to think about in today's day and age. But I show you this clip and I'll let you judge your own, you know, things. And definitely recommend the movie because you have two people from polar different ends of what's happening in the world at this point in time. You have Tom Hanks' character as a U.S. lawyer, and he believes in the judicial system, he believes in equity, he believes in a fair go, a core tenet of our democracy. Remember that theme, it will be coming back in this episode. And we have the exquisite Russian actor— forgive me, I forget his name, I believe he may even want an Oscar for this, excuse me— but captured spy in the U.S. And he has a very strict code where he doesn't betray others. Um, you know, Tom Hanks learns throughout just how much this man cares for his family, for his country, the loyalty, the honor, and what happens is an unlikely respect and an even unlikelier friendship unfolding. So even at the point where he's going home to Russia to be exchanged for a US person, we have an interaction like this unfolding. Let's tune in. What do you think will happen when you get home?

I think I'll have a vodka. Yeah, but Rudolph, is there not the possibility that my people are going to shoot me?

Yes.

You're not worried?

Would it help? To answer your question, My friend, I acted honorably. I think they know that. But sometimes people think wrong. People are people. Let's see how they greet me.

What can I look for?

If I'm embraced or just shown the back seat.

Pause there. Couple things. And you could clearly tell Tom Hanks' character had genuine concern for his safety, and he just said, you know, when he asked if he's worried, "Would it help?" It's a recognition that, you know, there's stuff that's out of his control, and it's, you know, also maybe a slight joke that, "Is it gonna make you feel a little better if I say I am?" And the end admission that even his own people, despite his undying loyalty, might do something that, you know, could end his life. And he's just got this stoic acceptance of what will be. And it's just a wild thing, right? So I just more share this because it's, I think, a really cool example of how people from different ideologies and different beliefs, when they put their swords away and they come to actually have questions and curiosities about why somebody thinks the way they do or how their life them to whatever point that they are at. They stop trying to convince somebody to just see the world the way they've seen it. They become then genuinely more curious about how did you see the world and what's led you to where you are. And I think it's something that's really hard for people to do, and I think it's something that a lot of people have forgotten, sadly. So I'm going to shift to a video that went viral after Alex Predi's video where he was kill, uh, and I'm gonna have a little context to share on that in just a moment, but we'll tune in for a moment. So I'll stop it there. And a lot of people are looking at this as, uh, he's an agitator, he's trying to stoke violence, he's, you know, doing all these really terrible, awful things. I'll just say it plainly, somebody that does things in that nature should have just been arrested. And there's a reason we have laws, and you do something and that happens. But the idea that this video somehow justifies what happened and explains the false narrative coming out from the current president and Kristi Noem and all these folks in DHS that he was coming in with these malicious intents with these officers and coming to cause massacre. And I mean, there's a reason Bavino's gone now, let's be real. Um, but you cannot look at one thing and use it as an excuse to believe a narrative that are going to tell me my own two eyes are lying from what's happened. Okay, but That also said, this isn't a peaceful protest that he was doing. I'm not saying he doesn't have a right to be angry considering everything that's happened in the Twin Cities that I've seen, but that's not the way to go about it. And he gets arrested at that instant. That's fine. That is what it is. But I'm going to be very crystal clear about this. This video has nothing to do with how the other situation that resulted in his murder escalated when he's holding a phone the entire time. When he was stepping in to protect an innocent woman bystander, when he showed no outward signs of violence, and it took 7+ people to try to, I guess, detain him. And then the results of what happened and their comments after— they should be held accountable the same way he should have been held accountable for being arrested for, you know, breaking a vehicle or these kinds of things. But I'd ask you, what's worse? Pretty sure how he was killed in this unchecked abuse of power is worse. So Again, this is a show where there's a working point of view. I'm going to get passionate about where I sit and what I think, but I'm also going to do my best to show, you know, that we're being curious here, that we're seeking to understand. So I had a friend say, well, he was fired from his job and he's a, you know, sex offender and did all these terrible things. Again, that doesn't make it okay that he was killed in this terrible, awful way unnecessarily, just without getting back into that. One does not justify the other, the same as this does not justify the other. But on that note, let's dig deeper. So we come to find out that that wasn't true at all, that it was a completely fabricated story. And again, I will post my sources in the notes section if you want to fact-check, verify, ask questions. I am completely open to it. But it's pretty clear that this was put out there by somebody that's looking to cause mischief, that's trying to make you believe something that wasn't actually true. And that's just not okay. And there's so many AI bots or people with this malicious intent. And that's why we need to be better. We need to look beyond the headline. We need to look at who wrote it. We need to understand author bias. And most importantly, we need to see, is that source reputable? I may have mentioned this in the last episode, but if you were in an English class with me in high school or in college, any research paper, heck, any even English paper to a certain extent, you have to show where's the source that backs your argument that shows evidence in support of. As a former psychology guy, you know, we always talked about the evidence is in support of this theory, and it was also a healthy acknowledgement of We don't have this definitive thing that says it's exactly that, but we're wired to want that. We're wired to want to have a label for something, to fit it into a box. It makes us feel better and safer to have answers instead of saying, you know what, I have more questions now than I have answers, which is what happened to me in Peru when I looked at how the Incans got Machu Picchu to how it was and moved those stones and more questions than answers. And a lot of people just don't like that. And you don't have to like it, but that's logic. So moving on. I wanna more just show that there's this idea that we're going after the criminals. And sure, 5% of them from what we saw in my last episode are criminals. And that also includes like traffic violations, other things. So we get the violent criminals, murderers. Sure, there's some of that. But right here, and you can verify the sources, it's actually more likely that a crime of this sort of violent magnitude, homicide, happens with a native-born American, then an illegal immigrant, and then a legal immigrant. My common logic says that if somebody's here illegally or even legally, they probably came here with not a lot of means, not a lot of education, not a lot of money, and they're living at or below the poverty line and in a very difficult situation. So they are actually working harder harder to be model citizens and a part of the country, even more so because them earning any little bit of privilege took them this much more work than somebody like me that was born with quite a bit. And that's just logic in thinking about those scenarios. Now, it's also two things can be true at the same time. Are there illegals that were killers, rapists, drug dealers, all these things? Yeah. And have some been deported? Sure. But the overwhelming evidence, when your narrative is, this is why we're doing what we're doing, it doesn't fit. It's like a jigsaw puzzle that belongs in a Lego. It doesn't— no, it just doesn't fit. So we're moving on. We're going to look at something that's maybe slightly more encouraging. We're not going to worry so much about Matt Little for Congress or that part of it. I just want to more look at the interaction of a lawyer that's choosing to peacefully protest and help out his community, and an ICE officer that's there to do a job and doing, you know, what he feels is right. But let's just listen into this for a sec.

There's some bad folks that join to do some bad things.

100%.

But that's in any profession, right?

I agree.

I'm a lawyer.

Trust me, dude.

I agree.

There's some people that are not great in our profession too. But we all— like, I have to hold my profession accountable, and you do too. Yes, we do. All I'm saying. Yes, we do. And listen, all right, so As far as policy change and stuff goes and training, we're all about that. I'll be the first one to tell you when things happen that go south, how can we make this better? How can we learn from it so this doesn't happen again? Yeah, we all try to do that, but it's a dirty job and sometimes things happen in the moment that it's insane, you know what I mean?

And you really don't know.

Yeah, but you guys gotta— you guys got to be right. We do have to— you guys are pilots. We do have to be right, but like I said, sometimes you only get one split second to make a decision. I know, but 47 days ain't enough for these folks. Hey brother, you know that's true.

Anyhow, it's above us, you know.

I appreciate it, but you have a voice. Don't, don't discredit your own voice to talk upward.

I would never.

I would never. All right, well, position to not, to not speak out, you know what I mean? I'm the first person that will talk about for change. Yeah, look, here's the deal. I'm gonna do what I have to do today, and you do the same if that's what you feel is right. I'm not, I'm not here to hurt you, um, I'm here to say I give a shit about you, um, but you know, I'm gonna be in my car doing what I feel is right today too, and I hope I respect that. Okay, bro.

All right.

It's pretty powerful to me. I heard a guy there that doesn't want to be a part of aggressive violence and unnecessary season capture, that wants to try to speak up and do good. But the reality is leadership dictates the type of training, the type of example. The checks and balances on power and how things are done appropriately. When you look at a modern police force, there's a reason that there's body cam footage, that there's a certain level of training, and there's a lot of scrutiny that goes behind interactions. And when you are, as they, you know, as the lawyer put it there, um, the pilot, you're the one in charge, you have to be right, you're the one with all the power, you're the one with the gun, 47 days of training, what some of these folks are being told in the bonus to sign up and to do what they're doing. And I'm sure it's a really stressful job, and I'm sure that it's been really hard on some of them and their families and what they've had to deal with. But it's also a choice to have that job, no different than a choice to be a tow truck driver. And I'm not saying all tow truck drivers are bad. Some of them are doing a really important service for other things. But my point in bringing it up is you have a certain moral responsibility to decide, is what I'm being asked to do okay? Is this something that I could talk to my kids about and explain to them and this would be okay? I really hope that there are more people like that ICE person out there that is giving feedback, that does want to see things done a certain way and remove us from this unchecked power, overly aggressive, just no checks and balances on doing things a certain way in order to do their jobs. Because it's not as simply just do their jobs. And this also isn't just happening because of this organization— or I'm sorry, this administration right here. And I'm going to pause and show you why here. So I found an article on speed over fairness during Obama's administration, and it gave us a little more history on what's been happening. So apparently, uh, if we go back to 1996, there used to be more of a judicial system in place where most of the people facing deportation, they had immigration court hearings. Circle back to that first clip I showed you. Tom Hanks' character, a man of the law, a lawyer, because we believe in— everybody deserves an equitable share in their fate and to have a chance at true democratic justice. So that seems more reasonable of what happened. And then all of a sudden we're at 75% of people being removed that don't even see a judge. And really digging into this fast track of removing versus equity. And you could say, well, because everything was backlogged and it took us so long and the amount of people coming in and this is like, okay, so there's a system problem. Maybe more people should put their heads together and figure out, I don't know, maybe if the government actually used modern technology, maybe if they looked at the actual process of becoming a citizen and decided Hey, there's a way that we can make this easier for people that actually want to be here and be a part of this country. I'm not going to sit here and say I can write this stuff up or I know all these answers. Heck no, I don't. But if me, this just one guy, can see how if people chose to work together, if they chose to understand that people that want to be here working hard to be here should have an easier path to be doing that. And we can trace this back to the Obama administration and look at all the way back to 1996, even way before that, that there used to be a different way that this was handled where you could at least say, hey, this person has their day in court. We're going to look at all the facts and we're going to do our best to have lawyers on either end that are presenting their cases in support or against of. And that's a pretty darn good process, in my opinion, as far as representing what a democracy should look like. Somewhere along the way, We got very far away from that. So I want to be clear, there's a lot of things I am just disgusted by how this administration is acting and deploying and what's happening. That doesn't mean that the other side didn't do things in a terrible fashion and disregard the fairness of other, you know, just equality, et cetera, back then too. And I could dig further down that rabbit hole if I want, because we seek to understand and we're curious here. Yeah, we can get a little fired up about everything in the process as well. So now, stemming from that video, uh, just wanted to look at Texas. Interesting study. Apparently the only state in the U.S. that has research and findings looking at crime and immigration and what that happens. So the facts are that there are lower rates, um, as we kind of saw earlier from another source that I looked at. In terms of if you're an illegal immigrant. Taking that a step further, for a more in-depth study related to homicide: although immigrants occasionally commit heinous crimes, they are less likely to do so than native-born Americans. There's obviously no comfort to victims and their loved ones, but it is information that policymakers can use to craft better immigration and anti-crime policies. Hmm, can use. It's as if, I don't know, working across the aisle could be beneficial. Interesting thoughts, right? Illegal immigrants and lawful— lawfully present non-citizens who commit violent or property crimes should be removed from the U.S. after being convicted and punished. Seems pretty reasonable to me. Good on you, Texas. One state. Be nice if that changed. Now let's hear from some police officers and their thoughts as to what's been going on.

This immigration enforcement is necessary for national security and for local security., but how it's done is extremely important. In fact, we have a long history of working exceptionally well with our federal partners, including ICE agents. With that said, recently, as the last two weeks, we as law enforcement community have been receiving endless complaints about civil rights violations in our streets from U.S. citizens. What we're hearing is they're being stopped in traffic stops or on the street with no cause and being forced to demand paperwork to determine if they are here legally. As this went on over the past 2 weeks, we started hearing from our police officers the same complaints as they fell victim to this while off duty. Every one of these individuals is a person of color who has had this happen to them. If it is happening to our officers, it pains me to think how many of our community members are falling victim to this every day.

We recognize by standing here today that some might say, "You're only speaking up because this is happening to the cops." Others will say that we're speaking out against ICE and that means we want rapists on the street. Neither of those things are true. We want to find some common ground, and we have to figure out a way that these processes, which are clearly failing— if American citizens are being grabbed or stopped or seized, this can't happen. We have to make sure that everyone's civil rights are intact. I truly want to believe that there isn't anybody on either side of the political aisle that thinks that people's civil rights aren't important.

I am seeing and hearing about people in Hennepin County stopped, questioned, and harassed solely because of the color of their skin. Solely being the operative word here.

This is not okay now, and it's never been okay.

See, there you have it. Civil liberties, talking about basic human rights. Human rights. We're all humans on this planet, and there should be due process. And back in '96, there was a more— seems fair, seems more reasonable. There's not this unchecked violence. There's not this racial prejudice of just because you're a certain skin color, I'm gonna profile you. You hear from our leadership here locally in the police forces saying their own officers have been checked because of the color of their skin. That you imagine, if it's just officers, then how about all the regular citizens? I have examples of people that are near and dear to me in my life that just because they look a certain way, they're being profiled. None of this, none of it is okay. This is another interaction that gives me a little hope. Listen and let's see what you think.

If you have a specific person in mind, like, I can likely help you get that person out of here. These families are— they're scared to death, and most of them are just like, what's that? Because you guys keep coming in there and, you know, everything in the news shows you just showing up and popping people in the face and knocking down doors. Okay, so let me just say, if you have a person, let us help you. I know just about every family in here. We don't need to be spending taxpayer money like this. We do not need to be tormenting little children. I mean, I know that some of you people were at one of my houses up here knocking on the door and impersonating local police and telling him to open the door. Yes, you were. Oh, maybe Maybe not you, sir, but some of your cohorts were. I was on the phone with the family when it happened, so don't tell me I'm lying. Now give me a name. I will go and get that for you and bring it here, and I'll save the taxpayer probably— how much are you guys spending today? I know you don't. Who's paying out what people? You think, you think these guys are on somebody's salary? Get your head out of your ass. Give me the name, I will go get the person for you right now. So that tells me you're not really interested in doing law enforcement here today. Then why aren't you targeting? You come in here and you're knocking on 5 different houses. You don't know shit. What house is he in? Where does he live? What did he do? What crime?

Is what?

Let me see it. I will go get him for you.

We haven't been warned of anything. Unless you're an immediate family member, we don't have to show you nothing, sir.

I am trying to help you. I will go get him.

He would probably—

you shot two Minnesotans in the last 10 days.

First of all, I haven't shot—

you're in the wrong line of work then, because you, you, you, you You represent ICE, every single one of you. You are not an independent contractor. You are likely a very poorly trained individual who is now part of this goon squad we have running around this state.

Listen, we're done with this conversation. We're going to continue our operation.

This, this, this is a waste of taxpayer money.

That's your opinion.

Well, I'm going to just say, you know, right away, this did get heated and this is slightly not what I'm hoping real conversations end up like. You know, that's not supposed to be real. They're going to get emotional at certain points. But if we can do a good job of regulating that emotion, science says we think with the more logical and smart part of our brain, remembering compassion. I heard from a friend once, we're sitting around a campfire, that if more people on different sides of the aisle actually got to know one another and were sitting around a campfire and they weren't tuned into national media and overdramatized news to a big extent, they'd realize that, yeah, there's certain things they agree on, but they agree on more than they realize, more than maybe they're made to believe they should realize. And, you know, that's how a lot of things—

I don't know—

can escalate. People feel they're pitted against one another, the ego gets involved. We'll get down that road in a minute. But what I heard her saying as a county worker I can help make all these things easier. I can give you this information. I'm all for somebody that's a criminal getting deported that shouldn't be here. Let me help make your job easier because it sounds like you weren't given good information. It sounds like you might not even have a legitimate warrant. It sounds like you have poor leadership. What did we hear earlier? Maybe 47 days of training on average, and all of a sudden there's this interaction where I can completely understand where she's coming from. She's using logic, reason, and what I think a lot of us would say is a process that somebody could say, you know, we don't have to get into the problems with the immigration system right now if we just want to be more simple and say, hey, back in '96, there was a judicial hearing. There was more of a legitimate way for people to have their maybe day in court. There was not as much violence, overly unchecked aggressiveness perpetrated on people because of the color of their skin or being profiled. That things were done in a more appropriate manner, respecting the civil rights of every human, which is not what's been happening. That is not what's been happening. So this I thought was kind of interesting. It's maybe a little harder to read, uh, but I recommend that you check it out yourself. Um, there's a U.S. District Judge, Fred Beery, that ordered the release of Liam Ramos and his father. He's the famous Spider-Man 5-year-old that's been in the videos that was sent down to Texas. And a very smart man, very well-read man, uh, somebody that references a lot of similarities between what the colonials were dealing with, with King Charles, and occupation and insurrection by soldiers, a disregard for civil liberty and rights. And really just looking at how our democracy is supposed to work. There are checks and balances for a reason, to make sure not one side has too much power and a truly democratic process of fairness. It's not perfect, but it's better than what's currently unfolding where warrants are being self-issued or falsified and not even real. And in the court of what he's saying here, they're being released because they came into the country legally seeking asylum. There is habeas corpus And let's shift over. What does that mean? It's a fundamental US legal procedure called the Great Writ that allows detained individuals to challenge the lawfulness of their imprisonment before a judge. Fair day in court. Sounds reasonable to me. They were just detained without that, sent down to detention centers. And as a result, we had some lawyers, we had some good people that made sure under their constitutional rights in our country and a part of what we should take pride in as far as how things are done. Got them released. And he had an eloquent way of just really letting somebody know, backed by the U.S. Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, how he feels about what's going on. Powerful stuff. That would be U.S. District Judge Fred Beery would recommend. So we covered that. I want to get into more of the psychology, and this is kind of a wild thing. So a story that I looked up, Daryl Davis and the Ku Klux Klan. He's a Black man, and he basically decided that he was going to befriend members of the Ku Klux Klan. Wild to me. Dangerous, scary, I would think. Not by arguing, not by shaming, but by just simply talking. Does sound absurd at first. Sounds like, how does this guy live more than a week doing what he was doing? But there are certain very brave, courageous, and big-hearted— that's the biggest phrase that comes to mind— big-hearted people that choose to challenge false narratives. So why would they sit down when they're actively inferior? So it reduces prejudice. And he would sit down with people that were shocked that they were having a friendly conversation with somebody because the reality is they'd never met a Black person, so they just believe these narratives and didn't have any basis to really draw it on. Kind of wild. And he'd have a question. So, I'd like to understand how you can hate me if you don't even know me. Not confrontational, not belittling that person, even though we'd all have a right to be infuriated that there's this person wearing this silly-looking PJ outfit that just wants to kill us based on the color of our skin or thinks we're inferior. He regulated his emotion. He chose curiosity. And I think it's just a wildly amazing example. Now, I'm not expecting us to be able to do this in the face of hate back at us and other things, or at the level that this person did, but What a powerful example. So he didn't try to win a debate. Another thing, remove your ego at the door. Instead, seek to understand, ask questions, emotionally regulated, stayed calm, shared personal stories, showed up repeatedly, and treated them as humans despite them having an impression that he was less than. So something uncomfortable happened for these Klan member folks. All of a sudden they liked him and they respected him, and they had this, uh, cognitive dissonance where they said, we've got two competing ideas in our head. I like this guy, or supposed to think people like him are evil. And our brains hate contradiction. That makes sense to me. But it's easier to update the ideal ideology than to deny your lived relationship. So when we have real experiences— this is why movies are so powerful, this is why, you know, Narrative books, you know, people love Harry Potter. It's like this world we can relate to, these characters, we feel like we're on this journey with them. And we see characters like Tom Hanks and this person from Russia, and we're like, wow, look at people that come from different parts of the world that have conflicting ideologies. This person, I don't even know how they have courage to give some of these KKK members the time of day, let alone to sit with them and to have a conversation, to not get angry. To not get confrontational, but to remain curious and to ask more questions. I am inspired by that. That is amazing. That is amazing. So kind of the cool thing that happened over decades— Klan members left the organization, some gave up their robes and hoods, a few became actual genuine friends, and several publicly renounced white supremacy. That's amazing. And when I think about what's happening in our country right now I would love if more of us— and I'm going to take this as a challenge to everybody that might be tuning in, and a challenge I take it on myself— have more conversations with people that are maybe on the other side of a political debate when it shouldn't be political, should be humanitarian. I just showed you that Obama did some pretty awful things too. This ICE thing has been around a long time, but current what is happening is not okay. And we need to do our best to convey our thoughts with emotion in terms of our passion. But if we can remain calm in tougher conversations, if we can find a way to be curious and seek to understand instead of convince, if we can show and lead the way, as the pastor at my Unitarian church likes to say, "Deeds over creeds." If my actions, and I think we can all agree with this general saying, Actions speak louder than words. That is a phrase that has been supremely important to me, my personal journey and other things in my life over the last number of months. I don't want to speak hollow words. I want my actions to show the character and the quality of what I believe. And I would challenge everyone here, have a conversation with a relative that thinks differently. Have a conversation with your neighbor that doesn't see eye to eye. Challenge yourself to remain calm, to be curious, to seek to understand, to have a conversation where you are doing more listening than talking. I'm not saying it's easy. I'm not saying that the other person isn't maybe going to cross boundaries, and definitely, you know, politely don't tolerate that or walk away if somebody's not being receptive and just open to sharing something. And learning for that growth, but we have to try. We really have to try because this idea of how divided we are, and we are in some ways, but some of it is just this false narrative that these folks in power that are lining other folks' pockets with money want you to think. I've just shown you how if you challenge headlines, wait a minute, that's all of a sudden not true. Wait, if I just think about this differently and I ask a different question, Shouldn't we care for all humans? Shouldn't we have a heart full of compassion and seek to understand and to learn about one another? And shouldn't we, regardless of skin color or status, just, you know, take care of criminals and put them in their day in court, put them in jail, do what we need to do to keep general society safe? It shouldn't be about illegal or naturalized citizen or color of your skin. It should just be about, did you do a crime? I mean, it's 2026. What are we doing? So I'm going to leave you with this: Change doesn't come from winning arguments, but from winning hearts. And every heart won is a victory against hate. It's Daryl Davis. Compelling stuff. And well, not completely just leave you with that. I'm gonna leave you with a picture of Arlo. He's almost a year and a half. That's my nephew. And when we think about the future of our country, of our world, we want people to grow up with love in their hearts and the ability to see the best in other people and the ability to have patience and respectfully disagree while learning and having a conversation. It's not your job to convince somebody to think the way that you think, but you do have it in you to lead with heart and compassion and try to do more and to be better We learn this as kids. The minute you sink to a lower vibrational level and meet somebody at a bullying— how they're treating you— you've not really taken the high road. You've not really done yourself a service. So I'm not saying it's easy to take the high road, definitely not, but it's the right thing to do. So I leave you with that. Chris Webb with Web, more curious than George. Stay tuned. We will have an episode 4 out before you know it. Bye-bye.