After $200M Raised & Why Real Estate Still Beats the S&P 500 with Mike Zlotnik

Welcome to another episode of the Smart Real Estate Coach Podcast, your source for actionable real-life examples and advice to help you move to the next level of investing. Each week we help you make a quantum leap in your business, your finances, and/or your life. We want to help you take back control, help you thrive during chaos, and lead you through the current crisis to a better tomorrow. For more resources, check out smartrealestatecoach.com and be sure to give us a rating and review on your favorite platform. Good morning and welcome, Wicked Smart listeners. It's Chris Pree again, your host, and I have a really cool guest. I was on his podcast recently, Mr. Mike Zlotnik. Now, Mike's recognized— if you've never heard of Mike— as Big Mike. He's the CEO of TF Management Group. He's got over 16 years of experience in our world, guys, real estate investing in general. He's an active member of a bunch of elite mastermind groups, which is how we connected. One you may all recognize is Collective Genius. He serves on the board of directors there. Also Freedom Founders and CA Investors. So I'm going to, as you'll hear, pick his brain a little bit about sort of what he's learned. Like he looks at a lot of us, right? A lot of people like us, you and I as investors. And I want to know what he's learned from that. In addition, he hosts the Big Mike Fund Podcast. That's the one I was on. That's a writer down, a Big Mike Fund Podcast. It's ranked in the top 10%. of all podcasts worldwide. He's also the author of How to Choose a Smart Real Estate Investment Fund. That's pretty cool. Very related to what we've got going on here. All right, Mike, with that as a little bit of an intro, welcome to the show and good to see you again. I just saw you a few weeks ago.

Great to see you too, Chris. Yeah, thanks for coming on my podcast too. It was, it was an awesome interview.

I just, as I just said, make sure you guys write that down and subscribe to Mike's show. It's awesome. And Mike, let's, as I said to you off air, let's start with, you were in a, in a J-O-B for a long time. I think it was 15 years or so. I'd love to chat about kind of how you made that transition and any ahas looking in hindsight or nuggets for the listener, because there's so many people right now listening that want to make that break and for whatever reason are stuck.

Sure. So, Find a job that you like. You don't have to work a day in your life. I mean, I had a good job. I actually liked it for a number of years. I was a technology, I was a mathematician by education, took computer science, worked in the IT world. I had almost 15-year career. I went from rank and file all the way to vice presidents running departments. It was fun. Actually, I really enjoyed that. But at the same time, I discovered it wasn't necessarily my genius zone and I was getting a little bit burned out. How do you make transition? Well, you do it gradually first and then you accelerate and you just kind of cut the cord. So I started investing passively in real estate in 2000, literally buying my first apartment in New York City in 2000. And then I took, it took me 9 years of being a passive investor, buying apartments, making investments as I had cash available, learning, Until I was ready to make a full-time switch in 2009. So how do you do this is if you, you're determined, you find something you like. If real estate is your passion, you build this goal, you continue to do your career, whatever it is, doctor, dentist, pilot, technology, IT person, but have a goal in mind that you want to make a transition one day. You don't know exactly the timing. So what you can do is you can start investing passively and learn as you go through that process. When you invest passively, I crack this joke and with this question, this is always on my mind. Are you investing to learn or learning to invest? It's always both, right? So you make investment, learn from it, communicate with the fund manager or the sponsor, whoever you invested with, and understand pros, cons, how things are going, what could be done better. If you ever want to do this full-time, uh, you, you need to prepare yourself and the way you prepare by learning from those who have been in the business for a while. So that's kind of how the whole thing transitioned. In 2009, I was ready to make the switch and it just happened.

I appreciate it. And I know you're involved, you kind of alluded to a few things there I want to go back to. You're involved in masterminds. I think you always have been. Um, talk about that a little bit because again, I, I just, I, The frustration level on my end, and you know this from chatting with me on your show, is if you don't like your J-O-B and you're listening, there are simple paths. You just said get around people, I think, or something like that. Like, talk about the mastermind, the power of that, and why they should be paying attention to that. And then I want to ask you for some lessons because you've been around masterminds for a while. Like, why?

Yeah.

How and why does that play the role?

Yeah. Yeah. That's a great question. I'll tell you. Yeah. I spent, uh, many years in multiple masterminds. And I have to say that it's been a huge blessing on many fronts. So give you an example. I've been in the Collective Genius Mastermind. That mastermind is for more of real estate professionals, mostly residential guys. But I've, you know, I've been in the group for a long, long time. I built connections with folks over the years and enough commercial and residential guys and girls. I've been in California Investors Mastermind, been in the Venture Alliance Mastermind. Freedom Founders, number of other ones. And all these masterminds, what they've given me is essentially a few things. One is network, right? You connect with people. You connect with people who have deep knowledge in whatever their strategy, their market, specific city, specific strategy. Some people wholesale, some people hold tail, some people fix and flip, some people hold rentals, some people do self-storage, some people do multifamily. Open-air shopping, industrial, you name it, right? So each mastermind has its own benefits and its own strengths, but networking, one element. 2, obviously knowledge, right? You have best practices, you have processes, you have marketing ideas, you have capital raising ideas, you have a set of different things you could learn through these communities. You have speakers coming in, national speakers who talk about market, direction of interest rates, what the government is doing, what the Fed is doing, et cetera, right? Next, you go into essentially doing business together with some folks, right? Why mastermind's helpful is you get to know people, know, like, and trust. And as you see who they are, you interact with them. So yeah, I can do business with that person. Either I can loan them money or I can invest in their deal, et cetera. So elbow to elbow, multiple meetings. It's a process. It doesn't get done overnight. It takes a little bit of time to build knowledge and to network with people and figure out who you want to work with and who you don't want to work with.

So what do you say to the person that is afraid to speak directly to them now? The person that's afraid to spend money on the mastermind because you and I, with the benefit of hindsight, go, well, yeah, of course you would because we've gotten all these things from it over the years, right? It's easy for us to say that. If they never did it, I just see this. I have an event coming up because I know this is an issue, right? People go, yeah, but, and they have all these reasons why they got to delay it. What do you say to them? They're afraid to spend the money on it.

Listen, you get what you pay for. It's that simple, right? If you try to get free stuff, well, get free advice, right? That's the most dangerous thing you can do. If you're going to start learning from people giving you free advice on the internet or wherever, you're going to learn things appropriately. So when you pay, it doesn't mean you always get phenomenal value. I mean, but typically when you start interacting with good experienced folks and it does cost you, it's an investment. It's not— think of it this way. It's not about the cost. It's about the value, right? If you get the value, the cost is less relevant. That's the bottom line. Sometimes you just go, most of these mastermind events, have an introductory opportunity. You just come in, maybe you pay a small fee, maybe you even give a credit card. As long as you show up, your credit card is not even charged. Just go and check it out, right? What's the worst thing can happen? You don't like it and you cancel. And as long as you have an offer that if you don't like it, you can cancel, you're fine.

Yeah.

But then you'll see the value rather quickly. I mean, you'll go to an event, you'll see the value, and then you'll be able to say, you'll have an aha moment.

Now, you mentioned advice of others and things like that. Did anyone tell you, I'm going back to your other statement, did anyone tell you in, I think you said '09-ish is when you made your transition. Did anyone tell you, especially during '09, that you're crazy, you shouldn't do that, don't make a jump? Did anyone come at you with that?

Listen, the way I was done, I was burned out. I was very successful. I had my exits. I had my, you know, you know, let's call it enough money built up, but at the same time, I was tired. Like, no matter how successful you are, no matter how, how well you're doing, I was mentally tired. I wanted to make a change. I wanted to be kind of, you know, you ever heard the expression, do you want to be head of a snake or tail of a dragon?

Yeah.

Right? So I wasn't a tail of a dragon. I was a corporate executive, but you're not running your own show. So I wanted to run my own show. So 2009, I was ready to go. Fear was not my, my concern. I was never a fearful person. I've always kind of been in martial arts. You, no matter what happens, you fall, you get up, you go to the next one, you go to the next one. So success is about, you know, not ready, aim, fire, but ready, fire, aim. And you keep re-aiming until you figure out what works. So that's the bottom line is, yeah, I mean, the times are a little scary. Who cares, right? In fact, when you enter that time, you enter an the bottom of the market. So a little bit similar to what it is right now. You're at the bottom of the commercial cycle, right? And that was the bottom of the residential cycle. So when the cycle is at the bottom, the fear is high. Warren Buffett tells us, be greedy when others are fearful and be fearful when others are greedy. Well, at that time, a lot of people were fearful, and that's the, that's the best time to, to get into the business because you're, you're entering at the right time from a market cycle perspective. Yeah.

I agree, Amelia. I knew you were going to go there. I just, I remember like yesterday it was 2013 when I had gone through my pivot in the crash and people were saying, you're crazy, you're crazy, crazy. It was the best thing I ever did, right? So, so absolutely go against the grain, I think. So let's, let's pivot here a bit, Mike, and move to sort of some market stuff. I want to get your thoughts on some of these things I wrote down this morning. So talk about, from your perspective anyway, what do you perceive as some of the bigger I'm going to go both directions, headwinds and risks. And at the same time, what are some big advantages given today's market? Like a snapshot today. Any thoughts on that?

So if you're looking to deploy capital right now, I mean, it's kind of interesting, right? I mean, I've been a scholar of risk for a long time and I love Howard Marks. And Howard Marks says this, right? Risk is a possibility of a loss effectively. And you don't know, you can't always completely understand the risk. Sometimes before, sometimes even after you make the investment. What's really interesting is also he goes and he talks a little bit about as price increases, so does the risk. As price goes down, so does the risk, all other things being equal. So today, stock market, crypto, many other appreciated assets, their risks have increased. Why? Because of exactly that basic thing. Some fundamentals improve, but markets often outpace the actual reality of intrinsic value. So it feels like certain investments have done really well. It's a great time to diversify your portfolio, whoever's portfolio, and consider what's undervalued. Commercial real estate right now on many aspects, including multifamily, some other strategies, They feel like today that on a relative basis, the value is very high while the price is low. Fundamentals are still solid, but the prices of these assets, because the Fed hiked fast and furious and kept rates higher for longer, now these markets are— they have reset to a valuation level where things feel great to enter right now. So what I would say is, From a timing perspective, in commercial market, we're somewhere at the bottom, maybe already well past the bottom. We can't see that until we look in the rearview mirror. So the time to act right now is one of the best times in my view. I don't know, you know, the future, things could still get worse or better, but probabilistically, mathematically looking at where we are in the cycle, it's a great time. You still need to find a great jockey. You still need to find the person you're going to invest with. That's a requirement. But if you can cross that bridge, then, then now is a great timing to enter the market, start taking action, maybe selling some of these highly appreciated things and diversifying and taking some chips off this table and putting into this table being commercial real estate, because the values here are incredibly attractive on a relative basis.

Okay, who wants to be the next apprentice? Pretty interesting, guys. We started this apprentice program back as a July 4th, 2024 promo. That's where it started. And it was so incredibly effective. We were just going to run it for the summer. It was so effective immediately, we kept it. It's in place now. And what is it? It allows you to get into the community, the Wicked Smart community, for less dollars than the QLS home study course sells for right now on our site. In fact, When you go to smartrealestatecoach.com/apprentice-pod, apprentice-pod, when you go there, you're going to see that as an apprentice, you're going to get over $13,000 worth of coaching, the possibility for you to touch base with us if you want to, 4 or 5 times a week. And it doesn't exist anywhere out there, frankly. That's why we did it. We did it for 2 reasons. One, No one is giving you the support out there. We keep hearing feedback, which is how this was born, that other educators are not giving support. They're just selling stuff. So it doesn't exist anywhere and nowhere in the real estate education or coaching space. And we want to help you do one thing— deals. So we've wrapped the support mechanism around this. We've allowed you to get into a Slack community with the other associates who previously were protected in Slack. And now you get to jump in there and experience that for 12 weeks. You also get to come to the In the Trenches boot camp, which is private. It's a chance to hang out with the family team and one of the coaches for 2 and a quarter days in our conference room, roll up our sleeves, get calls done, get deals done. If you come with leads, you leave with deals. Absolutely incredible. I could go on and on. Go to the website right now, check out more information about the Apprentice, and I'm going to give you the In the Trenches boot camp site because you don't have to become an apprentice. It just happens to be free with apprentice and associate. So 2 links I'm going to give you, super important. smartrealestatecoach.com/ittb-pod. That's going to give you some information about the boot camp. If you want to buy a ticket to the boot camp, it's more expensive, but you can just come check us out. About 1 or 2 people every time we run it do just that or become an apprentice and it's for free. smartrealestatecoach.com/apprentice-pod. Let's talk about that. What's your sort of your month-to-month looking like now? Like what are you spending time on? What kind of deals are you spending time on? I think that's a good segue from what kind of where you just left them.

Sure. So we are not doing volume, we're doing precision. We're doing surgery rather than throwing stuff on the wall and see what sticks. So this year we did one large, great multifamily deal. I can tell you a little bit about that. We just closed on a great open-air shopping deal, and then we are working now on a number of very strong triple net, absolute triple net industrial deals, which is another great strategy how folks can invest. I mean, in commercial real estate, you have many options, right? You could do multifamily, you can do self-storage, you can do shopping, you can do Industrial. Industrial could be called its own name. So people, I put industrial in the realm of commercial, although it can be industrial, a separate category. What I love about this is that I'm going to go through our general underwriting box, how we look at many of these commercial deals today. And we love industrial, we love open-air shopping, and very few multifamily deals where you can get this. So I'm going to start with very, very simple math. When you buy a property, you buy a property at a certain capitalization rate, cap rate. The term is very simple. What is a cap rate? It's a rate of return on your investment without mortgage leverage. It's unlevered rate of return. So think of it this way. If you have a property you bought for $10 million and it generates you $800,000 of income per year, you divide $800,000 by $10 million, that's 8%. That's the cap rate. Now, if you add mortgage leverage, if you borrow money at 6% from a mortgage, then you have a positive spread between the capitalization rate of 8% and the mortgage rate of 6%. So we look at this, this is very important to us. It's a margin of safety. It's a margin of cash flow safety. So I want to see 2%. If I can get 1.5%, I can look at the deal, but I want to see 2% or better. That's one of the critical underwriting requirements. We were able to achieve that in industrial. The other thing I really like about triple net industrial is that the tenant pays for all the cost increases, the taxes, the insurance, the roof goes, parking lot goes, you call it, whatever. All of it is tenant's responsibility. So what you have is you have initial strong cash flow, and then you have every year predictable increases. 2 to 3% typically in the triple net industrial. So what happens is NOI grows every year and so does the value because the value trades as a function of the NOI affected by the market cap rates. So the way we are thinking about this, we want high predictability. We want strong downside protection through conservative debt leverage, through fixed rate debt, through that positive spread of 2% that I mentioned. Great price relative reconstruction. If you can buy at 50% of reconstruction or better, you're in great shape. And the third element is we look at where the prices were at the peak of the market, where they are now. We're looking at a discount anywhere from 20% to 40% to the peak. And the reason we compare to the peak versus now, because transaction volume now may be limited. So you may not have all these great current comps. So if you don't have current comps, you look at what transacted a few years ago and you compare the price now, you're getting 35% off. That's generally to me is good enough. Whether it's absolute bottom of the market or not, I don't know, but it's close enough. So these are the kind of things we look at. As I said, open-air shopping, we just closed the deal at 9.25% cap rate and we financed at 6.5%. That's a spread between 9.5% to 6.5%, 2.75%. That's a great safety margin. And that deal was financed with 57% leverage. Industrial typically trades with 60 to 65% mortgage leverage. These deals don't take a lot of risk. They have strong downside protection, but they have pretty healthy upside because you're buying them right. If interest rates come down, a lot of tailwind for all commercial strategies.

What, I'm curious, what state was that in, Mike? And then are you, are you focused on any particular states right now or are you looking more at the asset? Just gimme an idea of where that deal was, the open-air, curious. And then what are you focusing on if you are geographically?

Sure. So we are a little different from most of other investors that we are, we marry money and opportunity. So we do, we are capital partners. People invest with us and we invest into the deals. So the best way to describe it, we find deals with the sponsors, with the operators, actually feet on the ground operators in specific strategies. We've done the, we've built relationships over a long time with specialists. So this particular deal that I want to mention comes from the group we've been working with for many years. This is our 8th deal with them, and they do various markets. In this particular case, they found a property downtown San Diego, and some people get very, let's call it that, either too uncomfortable with blue state no matter what. But I'll tell you, yes, residential properties in California or New York City where I'm at, Rent control, I, I, or rent stabilization. I don't like residential properties here. I wouldn't invest here in residential properties because of all the challenges. But commercial properties in New York or California are very different beast. So that particular deal was in San Diego. That sponsor that we're working with brought us, we have many deals with them. We have deals with them in Chicago. We deal with them in Atlanta. We have deals with them in Orlando, Florida. We have deals with them in Carolinas. So it's not a deal-specific, market-specific, it's where they found the deal because that was a very motivated seller situation. They found a phenomenal deal. So the folks we work with, some of them are focused on a given city and town. I completely understand that. We've got people who do nothing but certain parts of Midwest, right? We're perfectly happy with that. But at the same time, if a deal comes in San Diego, I'm happy to look at San Diego at these type of economics. So I don't know how best to describe it. It's not, we don't look for market. We have relationships. We don't go search for deals in a given market. We build relationships who bring deals to us.

Yeah.

And they tell us, listen, I'm doing a property in Indianapolis or suburbs of Detroit. The multifamily property that we closed in is near Ann Arbor, Michigan. And the organization that brought us the deal, they have a dozen properties in Detroit suburbs. So they know the market.

Yeah.

And that property again is multifamily. And crazy enough, it was bought at 9 cap rate on purchase, 9 cap on multifamily, unheard of, and financed with 7. So that's another 2% positive spread. We looked at all the math and every time we look at this in this market, this is the mindset. Some people tell me, well, I'm buying at a 5 cap and I'm financing 5.75 cap. That's a negative spread. Yeah, I don't want to do that. I want to have a positive spread from day one. Does that make sense?

Yes, it does. And I knew you were going to say that. I wanted the listeners to hear that because too many people get caught up in the markets because of the media and everything else going on. That's why, that's why I wanted you to share that. Do you see any— I'm not, I'm not as much of a tech person as most. Do you see any advantages, let's say, for tech-savvy people? And if so, in what ways? Like what's going on? Anything technology-wise, whether, whether it's AI or anything else? And then I want to make sure we Let everyone know how to reach you, of course. Sure.

So this is, we could talk with this segment for a long time, right? AI has been definitely transformational, right? We are certainly working how to implement AI at all parts of our business. We are using AI quite a bit in helping us underwrite, helping us search market, pull data, obviously market developments. There's all kinds of technology developments that are happening and I'll just leave it at that because it's rapidly moving, rapidly evolving.

Yeah.

So we're trying to keep up and trying to see how it can help our business. Obviously, we're talking about a customer service chatbot. You have a question, can we implement Q&A and help answer some questions faster that way? Some real basic support, of course. But AI is very deflationary in nature. For those people who don't understand, it is almost, you know, it's a revolution transformation. And when that happens, it creates higher productivity. It's probably going to, you know, reduce employment. I mean, I certainly don't like it when people lose jobs, but it's happening whether you like it or not. You know, it's an AI war with China. We have no control over it. It's going to happen one way or the other. So overall increase in productivity, increase of GDP, and then some job losses as a result, you're probably going to see deflationary pressures. So as much as people yelling and screaming inflation, inflation, AI could actually put us into anti-inflationary or slowing inflation type of environment, right? Then when this were to happen, interest rates can come down because interest rates on a long-term basis is a reflection of expectation of inflation. So we'll see what happens. We don't know. We still have fiscal deficit and other concerns, but in the short run, it feels like interest rates are coming down. AI is helping. So I feel real estate is a really great strategy to take advantage of these shifts for multiple reasons. One is AI is helping run properties better. AI is helping find properties. AI is really driving innovation and improvement. Plus, The level of interest rate directionally is coming down and that's going to be significant tailwind for the next few years at least.

You heard it from the man, Mr. Mike. That's awesome. Mike, how can they reach you? And in addition to how can they reach you and then you share anything you want, are there particular people, whether it's net worth or otherwise or cash that should reach out to you? Share anything you want with that before we wrap.

Yeah, Chris, I appreciate it. It's now, it's going to get very easy and cheesy. So I have a podcast with a cheesy name and I go as Big Mike, right? People call me Big Mike. So, and I'm a fund manager. So bigmikefund.com, very easy to remember. And if you misspell it, you forget the D at the end, you go to bigmikefun.com. I promise it's not a kinky site. But as far as who can reach out, I mean, we work with a lot of high net worth, affluent, obviously accredited investors. We only work really with accredited investors. So folks who are looking to, I don't know, people have asked me the question, what's our ideal avatar, who we work with? And I tell people anywhere from a few million dollars net worth all the way, we work with people who have probably at least over $100 million. I have friends and investors who, they could be much higher. I don't even know what the number is. So the bottom line is The moment people become accredited and they want to go into alternatives, real estate, happy to have a conversation.

Reach out. Yeah. Awesome. And thank you for that. So it's nice and broad. BigMikeFund.com, guys. You can't really mess that up. Mike, it was a super pleasure to have you on and to hang out a couple times this month, right? All in one month. Any last-minute nuggets or anything that perhaps I didn't ask that you want to make sure that gets out to the Wicked Smart listener?

Sure, I'll talk a little bit about the interest rate. I've been harping on this for a while and many people don't know, obviously. Yeah. So this is my view of the world. And, you know, it's a crystal ball conversation, just to be very clear. I don't know this any better than you do or anyone else. And I love this expression: he who lives by the crystal ball shall eat grass off the floor. So We don't know this, but it feels like the Fed is cutting rates. We just got one cut, another 2 coming later this year. We're going to get probably a few more cuts while still Jay Powell is in the office by May. Then the next Fed chair comes in. By the end of 2026, we may see interest rates on the Fed funds rate somewhere in 1.5%, 2% lower than we are now. Very easy to get there. Not very difficult with the math. What happens with the 10-year Treasury yield, which impacts mortgages? Most people don't understand these fixed-rate mortgages are really tied to where 10-year Treasury yield. And typically, there is an economic effect called substitution effect. As short end of the yield curve or the short maturity interest rates driven by the Fed funds rate come down, investors substitute. Their bonds mature, they need to buy something else, and then they wind up buying a little longer duration, a little longer duration. And that creates additional downward pressure on the interest rates at the low or the longer end of the yield curve. So I expect 10-year yield to come down at least 50, maybe 75 basis points, 3/4 of a percent. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but it feels that the interest rates need to be somewhere in the mid to lower 3s given where inflation can settle down at. So that's my view of the world. And for those people who are very nervous about the budget deficit, all this stuff, I'll just tell you, back to Ray Dalio, one of the best solutions to solve the US national debt and the budget deficit problem is to lower interest rates. As interest rates come down, the service on national debt comes down, and the problems kind of shrink a little bit. So I think there are all kinds of motivating factors to get the interest rates back down. That's my conclusion.

Well, I love the conclusion and I love the optimism, and I love— and I'm, I'm on the same page with you, by the way, for what it's worth. But you said it We don't know. The billionaires don't know. Mike, it was a pleasure, buddy, hanging out. BigMikeFund.com. Thanks for being on again.

Thank you, Chris.

Okay, Wicked Smart listeners, that wraps up our time together today with Mr. Mike Zlotnick. Listen, we're at the end of October here. I know for some of you this might be scary, but when you look back to January of '25 and you set some goals, are you where you thought you'd be right now? We got 2 months left of '25, which means really all your activities right now are into '26. We've got an amazing rundown next year, 2026, of the In the Trenches boot camps dates for you guys. I think as of the time of this, unless you're local, it's going to be awfully hard for you to get to the November 3rd one, literally next week.

You can come.

I might have a seat or 2 left. But if not, just go check out what we've got going on with the In the Trenches boot camps. It's pretty amazing, guys, because What we're doing is we're bringing people into our office here, if you haven't heard it yet, and we're doing live calls, live deal structure, calling your sellers, leaving you, sending you home with appointments and sometimes actual contracts. To learn more about how to get to one of those In the Trenches boot camps, because they're free with what we call the apprentice, just go to the number 3, numeric number 3, 3paydaysapprentice.com. That's 3paydaysapprentice.com. And use the coupon code PODCAST. Guys, we'll see you next week on the episode as we bring you another Wicked Smart Masterclass. You know, guys, for years I've been at the business now, 34, but for years we had some rent collection things in place. We had bookkeepers in place. We had marketing to go to all these different websites. Now we simply go to prosperity.io. It was built with us and you in mind. You can market your first property if you're brand new. You can scale if you're already in the business, but you can market your properties across 50+ platforms in one click for way less than hiring a pro. You can easily collect rent online, so it's like an escrow service for you. You can track payments. You can get monthly reports so you know how your investments are doing, or if it's your first investment. And no tech headaches, no guesswork, just smart tools to help you grow with confidence. Get started now at prosperity.io, because every portfolio starts with a powerful first step. All right. Thanks for tuning into the Smart Real Estate Coach Podcast. If you got value from today's episode, guys, be sure to subscribe so you never miss a future episode. It literally takes one nugget to access some of the things we're doing. And when you're talking the amount of the size rather of the paydays, it's an opportunity cost that you can't let go. So don't miss an episode. And for goodness' sake, share it with someone who needs to hear it. If you're ready to find your best path for getting started on your real estate investing journey in general, head over to smartrealestatecoach.com/getstarted. We're going to help you take the guesswork out of your next steps. See you in the next episode.