How Unresolved Trauma Sabotages Business Growth with Dr. Nicole Cain

Welcome to the Smart Real Estate Coach Podcast, your source for actionable, real-life, practical investing advice. Each week we help you make a quantum leap somewhere in your business, your finances, and/or your life. Subscribe, leave a rating and review, and learn more at smartrealestatecoachpodcast.com. Hey, welcome to the Smart Real Estate Coach Podcast, where we talk real deals, real strategies, and how to actually build predictable income and long-term wealth simultaneously. Without relying on banks. Punchline. I'm Chris Prefontaine. I'm glad you're here. I'm your host again. You know, often we talk about different pieces of our, what we call our Genius Model. Our Genius Model is 3-pronged or 3 circles, if you will, skillset, systems, and mindset. Today we're going to talk about a subject that can be very touchy for people, but also so many people around the globe are dealing with it, yet they don't talk about it. We're going to hang out. Today with Dr. Nicole Cain. She is a trauma-informed clinical psychologist, naturopathic physician, and an EMDR-trained expert specializing in holistic treatment for anxiety and panic disorders. Guys, this is super, super topic for so many people. So, if this strikes a chord with you, I encourage you to reach out to her. She's the author of the acclaimed Panic Proof book, host of the Holistic Inner Balance Natural Mental Health Podcast, And the founder of Holistic Wellness Collective. And that collective supports individuals navigating mental health and self-healing through integrative research-based methods. Absolutely some really, really cool stuff here. Dr. Cain's also a frequent contributor to publications that include Psychology Today and Health and has shared her expertise alongside thought leaders such as the amazing Deepak Chopra. All right, Nicole, with that as a little backdrop, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah, I, as I said in the intro, I think there's so many, you're going to tell me better, but there's so many people that probably don't talk about this stuff. And I think it's really cool that I don't care if they're real estate investors or W-2 people looking to invest, this can affect so many lives. So can we start with maybe a little peek behind the green curtain, like how you got here? And then I got a couple kind of key questions that I think will take us far.

Yeah, the journey often begins for many of us, and my story included, as we create the solutions that we desperately needed ourselves. And growing up in a very Midwestern Dutch Marine Corps family, there was a lot of stress, and many of the solutions leaned on the suppress it, deny it, avoid it, distract Hmm. And that works to a point, but then eventually for many, many of us, the symptoms just get bigger and bigger, or they relocate themselves where in the beginning maybe you had a little bit of nervous tummy or a little bit of anticipatory stress that then turns into panic attacks that feel like they're coming out of the blue. Or for some people, it shows up in somatic or body symptoms where we're not connecting the dots between, oh, this is a stress response or an anxiety response or a nervous system activation pattern. And so I grew up in that family. I also had a particular role in the family of caretaker. I managed my parents, or at least I thought I was managing them as a teenager, right? And eventually went off to school, wanted to be a helper. obtained a license in clinical psychology and counseling and found that the body doesn't always care what we have to say to it. And I found there were a lot of limitations to top-down approaches to the body. Top-down being we start with the logical brain and try to talk ourselves out of, oh, this airplane is fine. You don't need to worry about turbulence. The body's like, You do you, but we're going to worry about the turbulence, right? And so all of that story culminates into a rock-bottom, terrible, panic-driven, year-long episode, and it took place in Phoenix. And so it was very apt, the burning of everything that I had been taught and reconstructing something that is much more in integrity with what the research is showing us. And I wrote a book about it because people deserve to have this information and they shouldn't have to pay to see an integrative doctor to get it. And so that's Panic Proof. It's what we're talking about today.

Where can they get the book? Because I don't wanna forget to ask that. Panic Proof is the name. Where, where can they get that? Everywhere, I assume, at this point?

Yes. Anywhere books are sold. I just talked to a lady yesterday. She's like, I asked them to put it in the library in our small town and they did. And so you can get it on audiobook or you can buy the paperback copy and it's everywhere.

Panic Proof, guys. That's a, a writer downer. Okay. So I'm gonna ask you for personal reasons. I'm gonna go back to the crash of '08. For me personally, I remember having what I guess was a panic attack. This is during the 2008, 2012 debacle, right? So, and I remember calling my wife going, I don't know what's going on. And, and this was like middle of the night. So what is really the difference between panic and anxiety? Is there a difference? And Because I don't know which one it was for me, and I'm sure a bunch of people have gone through that.

Yeah. I would add fear to that question. So, if I really bundle it. So, there's fear, there's anxiety, and then there's panic. Fear is there's a deer in headlights. It could be an actual danger, and the body will mount a response to fight that danger, run away from the danger, perhaps collapse in danger. It may start to fracture, which we see a lot is people who dissociate, or maybe they have ADHD-type symptoms. And then there is complete fawning, which is where we try to appeal to those who are creating this sense of danger. It's like Stockholm syndrome. Maybe you've heard about that. And so when we go into those states, the body produces All of these symptoms. And in fear, they're protective, they're natural. But in anxiety, we get all of those systems activated, but we're not in actual danger. So that's, I'm in a flight and it's bumpy, but the flight is safe. It's just uncomfortable. That's anxiety. And then panic is when that anxiety is really, really extreme. Think of it as a spectrum or maybe stoplights. We have the green light is your nervous system is calm and grounded. Yellow light, we're getting activated. Perhaps we feel a little bit anxious or stressed or irritable, or we have a headache. And then if that source of stress doesn't go away, as in the 2008, that wasn't just a single moment incident, that was a recession.

Right.

Is that can accumulate and we can start to get red light, which is for many people, crisis panic attacks. So those are the 3 main differences.

So I guess I, I want to know on your end, because I don't— I haven't grabbed your book and I'm going to, um, disclosure. I— so if someone was going through this, obviously it's very personal, but if I was going through this, say me in '08, what, what would I do? Like, do you have programs besides your book? Do you have personal one-on-one? Do you like talk about that a little bit? Because I think so many people can be touched by that.

I'm curious if I could ask you questions, if you don't mind.

Yeah.

Yeah. So for each person, it looks a little different. And so in 2008, where were you in your career? What was happening in your life when this recession hit?

Simple answer. I lost everything. So then it was, how can we keep everything?

Right?

How can we maintain the lifestyle? You know, all that. So yeah, it always came at me from all angles. Everyone knows the story on the podcast, so it's not probably new to them, but it was, it's very interesting that you can answer that.

Yeah. And so you're in this situation where you're powerless. And so when we're powerless, the body is doing everything it can to save you. And what can happen for some people is that powerlessness, it's almost like you try to start a car. Have you ever started a car where the starter was actually malfunctioning? So you try to turn it over and it's like, vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom, vroom, and then it goes out, right?

Yeah.

So, when we're in a situation like that where we do lose everything, where we're powerless, or people who grew up in families where there was childhood trauma, or when we're in a job and we don't have a sense of personal agency and control, perhaps those who are listening, they were on a lot of timelines, deadlines, they lost their job, their family members lost their jobs. So, there's a lot of powerlessness in this conversation.

And losing loved ones as well, I imagine. And that wasn't me, but I imagine that's a lot of people, right?

Yes, absolutely. And we saw that with the crisis of 2008.

We did, actually.

So much. It was, it was this, this tragedy of, of, of powerlessness. And what happens is we've seen in the research that the nervous system will try to reenact this. It's called somatic reenactment. It's where the body activates an autonomic arousal response. It puts us in that fight, flight, freeze, flop, fawn fracture we were talking about. earlier in whatever flavor it is for you, and it's going to keep reactivating that until it resolves it. And so that's what the trauma work is all about, because if we aren't able to go into 2008 and resolve that sense of a lack of power, whether that means we do counseling in real time now, and we're recording this in 2026, maybe we— look at it in real time and we timestamp that and say, okay, that was 2008. Yes, we were powerlessness, but here's what I've done now to reclaim that power.

Hmm.

If we aren't able to unpack and recalibrate that, for many of us, we get stuck in this car won't start loop. And so that's when you may have dread or triggers or flashbacks or worries like, Oh my gosh, I'm I'm staring at the market cycles. I'm looking at the interest rate changes. I'm looking at mortgage sales. I'm looking at the number of houses that are on the market, and I'm looking at the number of sales that I've gotten. And we're looking at all these things. And if 2008, or for anybody listening, it could be any other event inside of real estate, outside of real estate.

Right.

If we haven't resolved that, the brain and the nervous system has logged away that this was bad. It was dangerous. We were out of control, and we're going to do everything. Everything we can to help you remember that and be ready for it to happen again.

Ah, interesting.

That's, that's the somatic reenactment. And so I ask you that question as kind of a volley up. Well, what do we do next? What do we do about that? Because I'm sure many people listening to this are like, yeah, that's me. I totally experienced that.

Well, and I know, and I hope this touches it, but I know people close to me that have had— that's why I asked you about death of loved ones, um, and that rekindles it for them. And I see it. And so again, when I saw you coming on, I'm like, all right, this is like, couldn't be better timing. 'Cause I hope that this really connects with them big time.

Yeah.

You know, it doesn't matter if you're brand new to real estate or if you've been doing this for several years or a whole bunch of years. I learned the hard way back during the crash that doing creative deals is much better. It's a much better path in real estate in general than let's call it the old way, getting paid once, using banks, signing personally, 3 paydays, getting paid 3 times on a deal. It's better 3 ways, not one. Money now, money over time, and money long term. And I don't care if you're in an up, down, sideways market, it doesn't matter. You can and should operate with the utmost confidence. There's literally nothing I love more than helping people create systems and simple systems and processes to become massively successful with our 3 Payday System, and doing so in literally any market and doing it geographically literally anywhere. So if you've been learning and learning and listening and studying and not taking action, I'm telling you after going through it myself, it's costing you tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars by not taking action on the 3 paydays the way you should be getting paid. Many of the people that were brand new just like you that joined our community have fast-tracked their startup. Now, I mean, wouldn't that be ideal if you said, okay, should I go fast or slow? Should I take action now or later? It's costing you too much money to wait. Each one of you are at a point in your life, I'm sure, where you want things to be easier. You want things to be better for you and your family. You probably realize that you not only want more, but you deserve more in this life. So, to be able to give your family everything they want, build a legacy for you personally too, and to have time freedom to start enjoying life, frankly, whatever else you're seeking. And for some of you, now's the time, for example, to just focus on security. Maybe it's building a big solid bank account for retirement. We take these things super, super seriously, and it's my life's biggest reward to help you achieve them. I want to give you a free discovery session with our team. It's free. It's 15 or 20 minutes. You have zero to lose and everything to gain. And to understand how you might fit into the 3 Payday System that we've done now in over 80 markets as of this filming, go to smartrealestatecoachpodcast.com. smartrealestatecoachpodcast.com/discovery for a free call with our team. smartrealestatecoachpodcast.com/discovery. Because it's not whether or not you can do it or whether or not you fit. You can do it. It's whether or not you'll take action and do what it takes. And we can guide you through that process. smartrealestatecoachpodcast.com/discovery. We'll see you soon.

Yeah, the rekindling thing, that's it. It's like It's like scar tissue or it's like a sunburn and we're more sensitive to specific things. You know how people are like, oh, they know my buttons. They're always pushing my buttons. Right. So the question is, is what are those buttons doing for us? And how do we allow those buttons to inform us about what needs healing and how? And a part of the conversation that I think is not being talked about enough, and I'm hoping to change during conversations like this with you, is that it is multi-systemic. And so somebody can lose a loved one and they can feel that sense of grief and fear and powerlessness. And the body is going to adapt to that. Our gut microbiome, will change. Our hormones may change. Our immune system may change. I have a patient on my caseload who every time he is stressed, his histamine goes through the roof. He's stressed. He's a public speaker, which is unfortunate for him because then he gets his histamine response and he gets itchy eyes and he's sneezing and he gets a frog in his throat and he's like, why does this happen every single time? Well, the body adapts. And the immune system can be as stimulating as adrenaline, right? So the body's like, oh, we're in danger. And so it will change everything. So many people will call and they'll ask me, well, I've tried changing my diet. I've gone to the counselor. Why isn't anything working? And I tell them, it's almost like you changed the tires in the car after a collision, but you didn't change the spark plugs and you didn't change the brakes and we didn't change the alternator. We have to Heal and recalibrate the whole person.

I, I, you also hit another one that I know just when you said that, the histamine thing. So, uh, yeah, this is gonna, it's gonna hit a lot of people. So is that why I was reading some new information? Is that why sometimes the symptoms are good? Because it points you, is that where you were going earlier?

Yes, that is. If we could just distill down my entire message into one point, you Just nailed it on the head. This is why you're so good at what you do, right?

So I get a degree now? Perfect.

You get a degree. You're like, A+. This is so good. Is, is for those who are listening, this is the moment. If you've been tuning out and dissociating, just come back. Is the most important thing is that your symptoms are not the problem. Your symptoms are your body's way of communicating to you What happened, or maybe what didn't happen that should have happened, that you needed to happen. And our job is to be Sherlock Holmes of our symptoms and try to figure out what to do about it, to put it back into balance. And our healthcare system is like what I grew up with, is you suppress it, you ignore it. You have a headache.

Yeah, ridiculous.

Take ibuprofen. You're anxious, take a benzo. And we can do better. And the research shows us that we can do better. And it doesn't have to cost you a ton of money. It can be quite simple for many of us.

Deep. I love it. What am I not asking, Nicole? Because this is, you're probably the first one on the show. We've had almost 700 episodes that address this. So if nothing else, I think we just expose you to a bunch of people that are going to love your book and love you. What did I not ask you perhaps that you want to share like a nugget or 2 with them?

Yeah. There are different ways to look at activation in the nervous system. One thing I think our healthcare system can do better is it largely thinks of it as a one-size-fits-most approach. And so, if you go to a conventionally trained physician, they're great at diagnostics, they're great at prescribing. I love working with them. And also, we have education and information to fill that in and make our diagnosis and our research more robust. So what does that mean? So if you put on your diagnostic hat, your researcher's hat, your Sherlock's pipe is in your mouth, and you go to the biggest city center in your area and you ask everybody around you, what is it like when you have a headache? You're going to get a lot of different answers. If you ask everybody around you, well, what is it like when you get stressed? The market just changed. The Fed's changing the interest rates, whatever it is, right? Well, how is that affecting you? Everybody's going to have a different answer. And if we go to the conventional doctor, oftentimes the solutions are quite uniform. If you're having anxiety, they may recommend top-down talk therapy or maybe medications, oftentimes an antidepressant.

Yeah.

Like Zoloft or maybe benzodiazepines. And it's similar. And so we're missing this huge opportunity to have a conversation about the nuance and symptoms. And so anxiety is my jam. I like to focus on that. And so I looked at all the literature that was available at the time I wrote the book and my decade-plus of clinical experience and recategorized the way that anxiety showed up into approximately 9 systems. And so I'll share that with you because I think for those who are listening, they may say, well, I don't, I'm not anxious, but every time I'm going to go and I'm going to meet somebody at a house, I feel nauseated and I have to take Tums. Well, that's a type of anxiety. It's called gut anxiety. We know there's a huge link between the gut and the brain. The gut-brain axis is a big part of the conversation. And so sometimes the body speaks with the voice of the gut and you might not be aware Or maybe you don't have a primary experience of thoughts or emotions. So the other nine types. So we have gut anxiety, stress that shows up in the gut. We have thought anxiety. Do you when you get stressed, Chris? I'm curious. Does what do your thoughts do? Do they go faster, slower, blank out? Like what do you notice?

Probably faster would be my knee jerk. And what ifs? Boop boop boop boop boop boop.

Oh totally. So you have that superhero power where you're able to your brain is able to move. quickly. So some people, when they get put on the spot, their mind goes blank. Other people, they experience ADHD-type symptoms and they can't get anything done.

Yeah.

So this is stress showing up in the thoughts. This is thought anxiety. And then we have chest anxiety. This is my heart is pounding. I feel like I can't get a good enough breath. There's no oxygen in the room. You've seen on TV, people breathe with the paper bags. So that's chest anxiety. And then we have immune system anxiety, which we touched on. We see anxiety showing up all the time in autoimmunity. We see it showing up. People take antihistamines to go to sleep at night, like Benadryl, hydroxyzine. And so that could be a sign that maybe my immune system is driving my anxiety and I don't need an antidepressant. I need to correct my immune system imbalance. Another type is endocrine anxiety. This is what's going on with your adrenal glands. They produce stress hormone cortisol. Are they overproducing or underproducing? What's happening with your thyroid gland? Hyperthyroid can mirror symptoms of panic. Or sex hormones, especially if you have anyone in your audience who's andropause, menopause, anybody who's postpartum, pregnant. Anytime when our hormones changing, if our symptoms correspond with that, We want to zero in on that. So, so many people who have never had their hormones tested, they're just getting treated as though they're from their shoulders up. And then we have trauma anxiety. That's like 2008 is a trauma anxiety for many of us, especially in this industry. And if it's trauma anxiety, I've distilled that out because we really want to focus on that event and we can even do a little mini strategy session for those who are listening that are like, well, okay, well, what are we going to do about that? I could show you what you could do at home right now. And then there's anger anxiety, because sometimes anger and frustration is, we're really stressed and anxious underneath. And then there's depressive anxiety, which is where we can experience fear, but also hopelessness, low self-esteem, despair. I think we touched on all of them. Oh, nervousity anxiety is the only other one. And that's—

Which one? I lost them.

Nervous system anxiety is the last one that I missed, and that's headaches, numbness and tingling. People think they're having a stroke, but it's actually stress. And so it can be kind of scary, but we want to get to the root cause of where that's coming from.

I would be shocked if you didn't just touch everyone with those 9, but we'll see. Um, yeah. How can you share any and all links or ways to reach you besides your book that, that they can reach out to you? Because I'm sure that's going to strike a Already did strike a chord.

Yeah, I'm really active on Instagram and all of my handles are Dr. Nicole Cain, C-A-I-N. And so that's my website, my Instagram, my YouTube. I have tons of free resources on my website. There's a free 9 types of anxiety quiz. So if you're like, what was all of that? You could just go and take the quiz and it'll tell you where to start.

I love it. Quite the nuggets. Uh, Nicole, thank you so much. I would think based on the feedback, we'll do, if you're willing, we'll do like an encore in 6 months or so and bring a lot more to the table for them. And I can't thank you enough. And I know the team's going to want to reach out to you and some of the people that I personally know. So, we'll do that. And again, guys, Panic Proof is the book. We'll have everything in the show notes as well as your social links. And thank you so much. Appreciate you.

Thanks for having me.

Okay, guys, that does wrap up our time together today with Dr. Nicole Kane. I encourage you guys, I urge you guys, to reach out at whatever level you see fit, but certainly grab her book. I appreciate you being here. And if this episode helped you, please, please, please share with someone who needs it. And you know who they might be. When you're ready to take this beyond just listening, this is the time to take just action. Now, on the real estate front of things, when you're ready to take this into the mindset realm and fix a lot of that stuff going on and then pour gas on what you got going on in real estate, Head over to smartrealestatecoach.com. We'll see you next week. All right guys, super cool announcement. On the 27th through the 29th of September, we have our 3 Paydays Live. I'm talking no gurus there, no fluff, just a proven system that builds wealth, literally. Join us on this 3-day event, guys. It's in person. There'll be no virtual. We're going to show you literally step by step how deals are constructed, how we negotiate and solve challenges for sellers. And how we close those deals without banks or credit. Super important when I came out of the crash. You'll see real deals, real numbers, and exactly how the 3 Paydays model creates multiple streams of income from just one deal. I'm talking averages of $45,000 to $350,000 per deal, all 3 paydays. Just one or a handful of these can change your year, guys, and certainly create a total breakthrough by the year 2027 for you. You're going to leave this event super clear and confident about how to speak with sellers, how to structure offers that are win-win, and how to think through deals literally in real time. We've made some really cool adjustments this year too. We've built in hands-on workshop learning experiences and extended the Q&A after each section and some other really cool experiences so you can actually do deals when you leave, not just conceptually understand it, but do deals. And lastly, we've removed all outside speakers, back to our roots, just the family team. You're going to hear from people who have recently closed deals and how they made it happen, and that's important because association with others and proximity really, really matters and can and will change your trajectory. If you're serious about totally replacing your income or adding a really cool supplemental income and building some long-term wealth, this is where it becomes real, guys. 3 Paydays Live. It's led by our family team and our coaches, all who are in the trenches every single day, every single week. Again, no outside speakers selling you stuff, none. Just go to 3paydayslive.com/podcast to learn more and to claim your spot. We'll see you there. All right, thanks for tuning in to the Smart Real Estate Coach Podcast. If you got value from today's episode, guys, be sure to subscribe so you never miss Don't miss a future episode. It literally takes one nugget to access some of the things we're doing. And when you're talking the amount of the size rather of the paydays, it's an opportunity cost that you can't let go. So don't miss an episode. And for goodness' sake, share it with someone who needs to hear it. If you're ready to find your best path for getting started on your real estate investing journey in general, head over to smartrealestatecoach.com/getstarted. We're going to help you take the guesswork out of your next steps. See you in the next episode.