The 3 Biggest Mistakes People Make with Infinite Banking with Jim Oliver

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Okay, welcome smart listeners. It's Chris Pree, your host again with another amazing guest. Now this guest Jim has been on our show before. I'm looking at my notes. He was on back in 21, but he and I have collaborated a lot over the years. Mr. Jim Oliver is literally the world's foremost authority on infinite banking. Some of you guys are familiar with it. Some of you guys are familiar with different forms of it. He's a financial freedom and abundance. Advocate Coach, pretty cool title. And he has dedicated his career literally to breaking the financial shackles that bind people, you and I, everyday people and businesses, to unnecessary taxes and interest expense. He spent 12 years under the tutelage of the late R. Nelson Nash. Now, if you look that up, R. Nelson Nash has some amazing books. He was the pioneer of the Infinite Banking Concept. Jim's out there spreading the message for Infinite Banking Concept through his firm, Create Tailwind. And then his podcast, Breakaway Wealth, which is what he and I have done. Gosh, I think we've done 3 or 4 episodes on that. So, that's a writer-downer. Go ahead and subscribe, Breakaway Wealth. And then, of course, he does speaking engagements across the country. Okay, Jim, with that as a little backdrop, welcome back to the show, buddy.

Thanks for having me, Chris. I'm happy to be here.

Yeah, always good to see you. I know we're going to hang out on your show as I just told everybody to go ahead and subscribe to that.

Yeah.

So we'll get everybody going to your show. So as I said to you off air, I'd love to hear what's going on in the industry, like newest and greatest, because I haven't picked anyone's brain on it. Like anything new or changing or things that we should be aware of as far as infinite banking?

Yeah, I think there is a lot of things going on. There's some— just let's talk about insurance because everybody, when they think about infinite banking, you know, the one thing that I always kind of hear is, well, the insurance contract or the insurance company or whatever, And there's, there was a big case with Kyle Busch where he bought an indexed universal life policy. And without going into great detail, indexed universal life is kind of like buying a term and a life insurance contract at the same time.

Okay.

And because the costs go up every year, and if you're, if the performance of the side fund where they're investing the money, whether it's in It's not in the index, but it mirrors the index, right? People think they're getting invested in the index. It's not. The insurance company just has to mirror the index based on cap rates, et cetera, participation rates. But what happens is your cost of insurance goes up and up every year. So he put over $10 million into this insurance contract and realized that, oh my gosh, I made a mistake because this isn't going to last when I'm 60, 70, 80 years old, this thing's going to blow up, which all universal life policies will do. So that trend where we saw all of these marketers out there that never really, they've never really done infinite banking. They understand it. Maybe they can market it like nobody's business, but what they're doing to their clients is causing harm by selling them indexed universal life policies. Instead of whole life policies that cannot blow up like that and your costs can't go up. They're all guaranteed. So when that was like this big push and you would see at some of the top producers in these insurance companies, they just like, where'd these people come from? And that's what it was, is they're out there schlepping IUL as the engine for infinite banking. Now, I learned infinite banking directly from the godfather of infinite banking, Nelson Nash. Nelson would roll over in his grave, literally, if he thought that this concept was being bastardized by universal life.

Yeah.

He could not stand universal life because there weren't the guarantees. So that's a trend that we're seeing. Another trend is that we're seeing for people, again, to make it easy to sell, And that's all they're trying to do is sell you. They're not really trying to coach you in infinite banking and help grow your wealth by using infinite banking and cash-flowing assets. They're simply trying to sell life insurance. And those people find that it's easier if you reduce the amount of base in the policy, meaning the amount that's the actual base whole life policy, and you increase The paid-up additions rider. It looks good in the first few years, Chris, but as you know, as you start to build in real estate or business ownership, it's capacity. Where can you hold the money in a favorable environment? It's not the least amount that you could put in there. It's the most that you can put in there. And so that trend is going to die just like the universal life trend is going to die because it's shortsighted. And it might take 5 or 6 years for people to realize, oh my gosh, I made a mistake. That wasn't the way that I should have done it. But those marketing where they're changing the name, and I've even heard infinity banking and cash flow banking and all these other things, that marketing I think is just going to wear off because what people really want are the relationships with the coach on how to help me build my wealth using infinite banking.

Yeah. So the only thing that came to mind for me is just like our industry, people butcher it the same as you're going through. So, and it's going on right now in my industry. We'll talk about that maybe later on your show. But okay, so what do these guys do then, Jim? What comes to mind for me is for the smart listeners, okay, if people are touting themselves as the same, How do they differentiate other than you're going to give your information out to call you? But I mean, in their world, what, how, how would they differentiate if they didn't have you per se? You know what I'm saying?

Yeah. I think ask how long has the person been coaching infinite banking or showing people how to do infinite banking? Number one, huge. Ask them what their portfolio looks like. Can you tell me some of the things that you've done with your infinite banking system? If they haven't bought cash flow assets like real estate, business ownerships, hard money lending, I mean, it's something, right? And there should be a kind of a diversified experience, meaning I've bought real estate, I've bought businesses, I've bought, I've done hard money lending. I seem to be doing a lot of that right now. And it's okay at the rate that I charge. I'm fine with it. But, um, I could give you examples after examples after examples, as many as you want, on, uh, how I've used my infinite banking system. So I would ask that person that. And I'm not saying there aren't people out there that aren't doing great with their system, but I would ask that. The other thing that I would ask is, how long have you had, uh, relationships with the insurance companies that you use? Because what people don't realize is that some of these kind of flashes in the pan, they've had their contracts for 2 or 3 years. And maybe because they got terminated from another company for whatever reason, I happen to know some of these people for not being compliant in their message. So those are probably the top 3 questions that I would ask.

Yeah. So again, very similar to my business, right? Like there's people not doing deals out there coaching. It's like, Or never did a deal. So, very similar. Okay. So, you know what we might want to do? I do this all the time. I forget that there are probably listeners that go, what the hell are they talking about?

Yeah.

Well, let's define, let's backtrack now and define infinite banking a little bit. And then, for the brand new person that haven't gone into this path yet, what can they do? What's a startup? And then, obviously, share how to reach you.

Yeah. Absolutely. So, um, just to explain infinite banking, if, if you wouldn't mind, let me just kind of talk about the problem, how a bank works.

Yeah.

And then what, what infinite banking solves. So the problem is that we finance every single thing that we buy. We either pay interest to someone else or we give up interest that we could have earned somewhere else, right? Um, so if we pay cash, We have lost opportunity costs. We could have taken that cash and had it earn money for us. So we have, and so how does a bank then, so that's a problem, but it's solvable. Infinite banking solves that problem. The way that a bank works is you go down and deposit money at the bank, and most people think that that's an asset for the bank, but it's actually a liability because the bank has to give you that money back whenever you want it, and they haven't done anything with it. So what do they do with it to turn it into an asset? They loan it to a borrower. The borrower pays the bank interest. The bank pays the depositor as little interest as they'll accept. And so like, this is 2016. And the reason that I use 2016, Chris, is because tell me how it's going to change in the future and I'll tell you, this is, you know, literally 9 years ago. But It's cyclical. I mean, these things, I mean, and it doesn't really matter when you see these numbers. Okay. So in 2016, the bank would pay the depositor 0.2%, and that's what, that's their interest expense on their books. And then they would charge 5.2%. That's their interest income on their balance sheet. Mm-hmm. So, People say, well, that's 5%, no big deal. But that's not how a business works. Is the way the banking business works, any business, is you divide the cost into the profit. So 0.2% divided into 5.2%, 0.2 goes in 26 times. 2,600% more than you is what the bank is earning. They're earning 2,600% more than you With your money. Now here's the, here's the bad thing about that. If it doesn't get worse than that, is there's only one banking system in the world. So if you have money deposited at one bank, borrow it at another bank, in essence, the banking industry is making 2,600% more than you with your money from you. Infinite banking solves that problem and makes you all 3 of those entities, the depositor, the bank owner, And the borrower. And the way that it does that, it does that inside of an insurance contract. Now, why an insurance contract? Because when you have cash value in a properly structured whole life policy, you can get a loan up to 100% of that cash value, and the insurance company has to give you their money. Interest only, no questions asked, no applications. They have to give you that money whenever you want it. So you take it and you work with Chris and his team and you go buy real estate and you start to make money. You flow that money back into your banking system that you control, not somebody else. And you do it over and over and over again. You redeploy it as fast as you can to the next deal, to the next deal, to the next deal. And so that's what infinite banking is. It's not the insurance policy. That's part of it. That's only the left side of the ledger, the way that we explain it. The right side of the ledger is where you come in and you say, because I have people all the time, Chris, we, I know we've talked about this where they say, well, I don't know what to do with the money.

Yeah.

I've got $1 million of cash value. What do I do with it? You, well, you gotta learn what to do with the money or partner with, people that we know, like, and trust, like you and your team, and start to build something. Doesn't happen overnight, but it happens faster than you think.

I love it. Super clear, Jim, because I know, well, as we said earlier, people butcher this whole thing. Um, so I don't forget, how can they reach you? So then I can get back to some questions here I wrote down.

Yeah, the easiest way to reach me is just jimoliver@createtailwind.com. And if you send me an email, I will have somebody on my team reach out with me because we normally work with all of our clients, 2 different associates, just so that we're always available. So I'm not the guy you want coordinating the meeting, as you probably already know, Chris, but somebody on the team will contact you and guide you through some courses so that you kind of get the basics. And then we'll have a live Q&A meeting where you ask anything you want to. Jim, so-and-so says to do it like that. Why shouldn't I do it that way? Or, you know, and, and so all we do, Chris, as you know, is we just educate you about infinite banking until you decide one of two things. Either this is for me or it's not for me.

Yeah. Simple. And how many years you been doing this, Jim? This is important.

38.

Yeah. Okay. So that you got, you got me beating real estate. But the point is I'm at 34 years. And the point is there are people out there that you, that you alluded to that that maybe know how to market real well but don't have 38 freaking years of experience.

They just don't. Right. Yeah. And you learn things over 38 years that—

Yeah, yeah. Just a couple.

Yeah, just a couple.

Okay. So, on that note, if they're brand new out there, they can get in touch with you. Are there any other, I'll say, pitfalls or speed bumps they should watch out for, or did that 10,000-foot view you gave kind of safeguard it enough?

You know, the pitfalls are, Really, when I look at like the top 3 things that people make a mistake on in infinite banking, and Nelson would echo this, is he would say people don't put enough money in there. They don't capitalize enough. So my first thing is don't be afraid to capitalize. I'm going to show you where you're not going to lose control of your money. You're going to still have control of your money. It's going to be in a tax-free environment. And it's going to pay out a tax-free death benefit, the policy someday to your heirs. So that's the first mistake is people think, well, I should just start small and, you know, but if you were going to own a bank, would you want it to be a big one or a little one?

Yeah.

Right? If you had a coach that was going to help you manage it, then you could have Bank of America, right? So the second thing is that people, put the money in there and then they don't do anything. So they just bought a really big life insurance policy. And I don't want to see them do that because that's not the purpose. I would never sell somebody a life insurance policy to have their money just sit there.

Right.

You know, money in motion dies. And then the third thing is really what you brought up the last time is you choose an inexperienced person that's Like not going to take you to the top of the mountain. Like if you're going to buy, if you're going to go climb Mount Everest and you're going to hire a Sherpa, don't hire somebody who's in their first few weeks. You know, like I want the guy that's been up and down that mountain as many times as possible and never had a fatality. That's the guy that I want as my Sherpa. So those are 3 mistakes that people make in infinite banking.

Yeah, no, thank you. And that's why you're on the show. And that's why I like bringing people like you on with 20, 30, 40 years experience in whatever, right? It matters. On that note, you've got a bunch of businesses you run too, right? You're not just hanging around doing a couple things. So here we are, this episode's going to come out very close to or at year-end or the new year. So talk a little bit about, switch to entrepreneur hat in general now and talk a little bit about them taking that entrepreneurial journey because there's a lot of people with W-2s listening to this.

Yeah.

Like it's a big part of our debt and they might make 5, 6, multiple 6 figures, but they're not They could be miserable. They're just not super happy. Any thoughts on journeying into entrepreneurship and then how you've journeyed yourself? Because you've got a bunch of businesses.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. The biggest thing that you have to do is you have to realize that you do not have to exchange your time for money. Okay. That ultimately you can do the things that you're passionate about, like yourself and like myself. I mean, we do this because we're passionate about it, not because we're exchanging time for money. I'm out there really just trying to free people from captivity. And anytime you have a 9 to 5, even if you're making millions of dollars a year, you're in captivity. Somebody tells you when to be there, how long you gotta be there, and they're in control. And I believe that if you have cash-flowing assets, like what you teach people how to do, you slowly but surely, and it's not that slow, is you stop exchanging time for money. And really your money works for you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. I know that sounds simple and a lot of people have that message, but really understanding that you have to change that. So how do you change that in your mind is you gotta change 2 things. You gotta change the way you see your identity. I am an investor. I don't exchange time for money. My time is my own. And put a deadline to it. Could be the end of 2026. I want to be 35% where I'm not exchanging time for money. In 3 years, I want to be 100%. I'm, I've replaced my income that we're going where I'm exchanging time for money to my assets are providing that income. And the people that you're talking about who are making high 6 figures, 7 figures a year, it can happen that fast. And as you know, So that's one thing, but then the way that you do that too is you have to change your environment.

Yeah.

So if you're listening to and hanging out with people that also have 9 to 5s and all your friends have 9 to 5s and the people that you're going to lunch with and coffee and everything else have 9 to 5s.

Yeah. Guess what?

That's your environment. So you can change your environment, find people that, like Chris and his team that will help you make that transition, like me and our team that will help you make that transition and get in that environment, like-minded people, because you can change your environment tomorrow. You can change your identity. Can you have stronger willpower, better habits, all those things? Well, not until you do the first 2. And so as an entrepreneur and looking at buying a business is if you've never bought a business, Then buy it with someone who has. If you've never bought real estate and you've got a great deal, then call Chris and say, I've got a great deal. I don't know what to do with it. You know, or I think it's a great deal. Help me figure that out.

Yeah.

Is, is, is it's kind of like when you would graduate from medical school, right? The first thing you do is not jump in the, in the OR and start cutting people open. You observe, then you assist. Then you lead and then you teach maybe someday, right? When you're giving back. So that's the thing that I would say entrepreneurs in 2026 is know that there are, there's tons of opportunities. You want to buy a business? There are tons of opportunities. You want to invest in real estate? There's always opportunities. I love when people say this is a bad time for real estate. I know you do too.

Yeah, it's ridiculous.

Yeah, it is. I'm like, yeah, great. I'm really, I mean, you don't even say anything, right? You just kind of like, uh, just not even nod your head, just smile and think, I'm glad. Okay. There's one person I don't have to worry about.

Yeah. I'm not sure I can remember a time in my 34 years when the media was correct. So yeah, there's that.

Yeah. You know what Nelson used to— I'm sorry, go ahead.

No, go ahead.

Uh, you know what Nelson used to say, Chris, is the majority's never been right about anything.

No.

And so if you're in the herd, You're in the majority. You're wrong. Absolutely. Just, it is what it is. You know, you're wrong. If you think you're going to get rich putting money in Wall Street and let it sit there for 40 years to accumulate and then 30 years to distribute, you're wrong.

Yeah. 2 things come to mind. One, proximity, right? You hammered that, right? Proximity as they're getting into 26. And 2 is, I mean, use Jim. That's step number one for a call to action and get that in your kind of your ecosphere. But also, pick 2 other people on the podcast. I don't bring in people that are brand new in anything, frankly. So, pick 2 other people in the podcast that you go, hey, Chris, could you introduce me to these 2 people that changed my life at 26? And I'll do that. Like, it's not difficult. To your point, they're out there, especially the internet these days. So, I really appreciate it, Jim. What else? Anything else I didn't ask you that you want to share, especially with the year-end kind of on mind?

Yeah. You know, year-end on mine is let's make 2026 the best year ever. And the best way to do that is to have a plan to change your identity, change your environment, get really clear about what you want and why you want it and ride it out. I mean, ride it out, create a vision. I know you could run it by Chris. You can run it by me. I mean, I love to see people's dreams and visions. And if you can't find your vision, then you need a coach to help you get that clarity because we get there. We get where it's like, well, I don't really know. I mean, at 60 years old, sometimes I think, what is my vision? Well, my vision, people think it's crazy because I said I was going to have abs by the time I turned 60 and I did. Well, now I'm saying I'm going to put on 4 pounds of muscle next year and I'm going to take off 4 pounds of fat. And I know that that 8-pound swing doesn't sound like a lot, but it will put me— and my biological age is going to go down, right? So those are— but that's the identity that I see myself as. I see myself already as that. That's awesome.

That's awesome. Jim, I really appreciate it. We're going to hang out on your show in a few minutes here, I think. So again, guys, Create, Heal, Win is a— Jim Oliver at creathealwin.com, correct?

Yep, that's it.

Awesome, Jim. Good to hang out as always. Good nuggets, great year-end nuggets. And you guys go off and make it happen this year and let each of us help you. I just opened that up to the entire listener database. Make it a great week. Thanks, Jim.

Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Okay, smart listeners, that wraps up our time together today with Mr. Jim Oliver. I want to make sure you guys are set up for the new year. We got a couple things that that entails. Number one, we do have our January 21, 22, 23 boot camp. Uh, it's free if you're an apprentice or an associate. Just go to 3paydaysapprentice— that's the number 3— paydaysapprentice.com, and you can use the code, the coupon code PODCAST. Uh, also, basic— I should have said this first— if you haven't gone through our master's class yet, I literally just redid it. You'll get an updated version. smartrealestatecoach.com/masterspodcast. Make it a great week, guys. Make sure you like the episode, share the episode, and rate the episode, and we'll see you next week. Are you tired of the headaches that come with hunting down sufficient and affordable investment property insurance? I know I have for years and years. Say goodbye to the endless calls and stress with National Real Estate Insurance Group. With NREIG, you can actually customize your coverage and keep every property you own regardless of the occupant. Vacancy status protected on one monthly schedule and bill. No fuss, just flexible, reliable coverage that adapts to your portfolio. Visit smartrealestatecoach.com/NREIG to learn how effective insurance can be with National Real Estate Insurance Group. smartrealestatecoach.com/NREIG to request a proposal today. All right. Thanks for tuning in to the Smart Real Estate Coach Podcast. If you got value from today's episode, guys, be sure to subscribe so you never miss a future episode. It literally takes one nugget to access some of the things we're doing. And when you're talking the amount of the size rather of the paydays, it's an opportunity cost that you can't let go. So don't miss an episode. And for goodness' sake, share it with someone who needs to hear it. If you're ready to find your best path for getting started on your real estate investing journey in general, head over to smartrealestatecoach.com/getstarted. We're going to help you take the guesswork out of your next steps. See you in the next episode.