Why Operators Are the Bottleneck When The Business Is Scaling with Matt Miale

Welcome to the Smart Real Estate Coach Podcast, your source for actionable, real-life, practical investing advice. Each week we help you make a quantum leap somewhere in your business, your finances, and/or your life. Subscribe, leave a rating and review, and learn more at smartrealestatecoachpodcast.com. Welcome to the Smart Real Estate Coach Podcast, where we cut through the noise and the crap and show you how to actually get deals done in today's market, like right now. I'm Chris Pree, your host, and if you're serious about creating income and wealth through real estate, you're in the right place. Today we're going to hang out with Mr. Matt Miale. Guys, this is very, very timely and appropriate to have someone on with 20-plus years experience. Again, you guys know I look for this all the time, right? Well, Matt's got 20 years experience. He's the founder of the Miale Team. What I love about Matt is, yes, he had his start in in some multis, got crushed in the crash similar to me. Then he started a real estate team as far as the realtor world goes. But his focus is on that big move. He did it. I did it. I hope some of you will come along and do it with us. And that is moving from solopreneur to entrepreneur, meaning owner, not in the trenches. Because as a solopreneur, you can do more, make more calls, get up early, stay up late, and get to that million dollars. And I don't want to water that down, but you can get there. It's moving beyond that and at the same time having a lifestyle. Matt leads Agent Production Academy and he leads M Power Events where he helps agents and teams, team leaders scale through simple structured systems. And he focuses on accountability and performance and as a MAPS, M-A-P-S, as a MAPS coach. And he talks about exactly what to say. He has actually a certified guide for that. He specializes in turning, as you're going to hear here in a second, he wraps it up at the end of our chat, turning complex business challenges into clear, actionable strategies that drive consistent growth. And guys, there's, when you, when you have someone like this on the podcast and he spews out all the information, how to reach him at the end, you're going to want to, as he says, get into his room. Okay. All right, Matt, with that as a little backdrop, welcome to the show, buddy, all the way in Connecticut, a whole stone's throw from here.

Yeah. All the way in Connecticut. In fact, one thing we didn't get a chance to talk about, but is really important because my favorite place on earth is Block Island and you are off the coast of Block Island, but I spend a good couple of weeks every single summer there for the last 12 years. Yeah.

Yeah. It's cool. I mean, Newport's cool. That's even more cool.

Well, we love Block. I mean, we wanted to, you know, I have 3 kids and so I wanted to create the types of memories for my kids where they had a place that they could go back to. And the very first time I was in Block Island, I grew up in New England, or really I grew up in New York, but went to college in New Hampshire. So I had a lot of access to New England. My wife's from Connecticut. So this is kind of the hood. This is where I grew up, but I didn't get to Block Island until I was in my late 30s. And I went there one time for a buddy's 40th birthday party.

Wow.

And that was it. I was like, this is it, the spot. This is where I'm going to come here every single year until we get sick of it. And we have not gotten sick of it. In fact, the first year we went for a week, and then by the third year we were going for 3 weeks, and now we typically are out there for almost a month every single summer.

Well, that's cool. That's actually a nice teaser for these guys to figure out how the heck you do that. So we're going to talk about that. And how old are your kids for context?

Well, I got a 19-year-old that's in his freshman year at Keene State College, which Which also is my alma mater. I went to Keene State. So again, if you've got local people here, they know little Keene State in southern New Hampshire, also known as Kinda Sorta College, KSC. I met my wife there back in the early '90s.

History.

Yeah, we're tied there. So I have a freshman at Keene State just finishing up his freshman year and absolutely crushing it. I have a daughter that's 17 years old who's a junior in high school who's Actually got her prom this weekend, which I'm thrilled about.

Nice.

That's gonna be super, you know, super fun stuff to, to get to participate in. And I have a 14-year-old daughter who's in 8th grade going into her freshman year next year.

Nice. I want— I asked you that because I want— well, you brought it up from a memory standpoint and all that, which I think is super cool. That's why we exist. But also, I want these guys to understand that you got life going on, right? Of course.

Let's, let's do this.

Let's peel back the green curtain and let these guys know How long you been at this? I mean, I gave the 20 years in my intro, but how do you arrive here? And then we'll kind of unpack what you got going on.

Well, what I love about your podcast is the audience that you serve because you are serving the audience that would've been me back when I started in my real estate career. See, I went to college, got a college degree, graduated in 1997, went on to do the corporate gig, realized pretty quickly that while I had natural skill and capacity for a corporate professional sales gig, That I was mostly unemployable, that like I didn't work well inside of those box environments, right? So I tended to be a little too fast, a little too aggressive, kind of wanted to run my own show.

Sounds like me.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, so corporate sales worked well for me for the better part of my first 7, 8 years in my career, but I found myself feeling entirely and totally unfulfilled at way too young of an age. So, You know, 26, 27, 28 years old. I have a, you know, I have a day job. I'm going to work every day. Back then, you can probably remember, right? Putting on a suit and tie because that's how you showed up to work. I did. Yep. Yeah. Putting on a suit and tie every day, making sure your shoes were shined and your watch was timed. And I already showed—

Let me jump in there. I can say I don't own one now and I'm very happy about it.

But go ahead. Yeah. Well, I own them. They don't fit me anymore. I didn't get rid of them yet because I keep thinking one of these days I'm going to squeeze into one. But But yeah, I mean, every day, it's funny, I talked to my son about it and I'm like, yeah, I had 30 ties because you had to wear one every day, right? So like, there's like normal. Now you can't even find ties at the store. But so I got it. I was in my late 20s and I was definitely starting to feel pretty frustrated. I had a really, really good friend who was a colleague of mine who just kind of half mentioned to me That he had gotten into real estate investing. Now, my dad was a fireman. My mom worked for the Department of Mental Health Services in Connecticut. I had no exposure to real estate investing. I really didn't know anything about it. I didn't really, I kind of conceptually understood the concept, but like didn't have access to it. And he told me that he had bought a property. I was living in LA at the time in Bakersfield, California, and that he was making, he was cash flowing. And I thought this was like the coolest thing in the world. So I was like, what do you mean you bought it? You have a mortgage payment and they pay you more and you get to keep the balance? And he was like, yeah. And so like anybody who can probably relate to this story, I went to, well, back then I went to Barnes Noble because you couldn't go online and just search for real estate investor courses. And there was— You can't even zip that online. Yeah. I went to Barnes Noble and I bought like 6 books on real estate investing from the business section. And I consumed them like a maniac in the first week. And so this was 2002, 2003. That was probably 2002. So I just got, I immersed myself in this idea. I read every book, you know, how to flip properties. And I landed on the fact that buy and hold was definitely a strategy that I wanted to get after. And within 6 months, I bought my first multifamily property in, and interestingly enough, I opened myself up to buying it in the place that I could get the most cash flow, which just so happened to be the town that I live in now, West Hartford, Connecticut. So I lived in LA, I looked in Boston, I looked in California, I looked in all of these places where I might want to settle someday. And the place that I landed was West Hartford. I had friends who were living here and renting here, and I came and I, we came for New Year's Eve. One of my buddies had us over for like pre-dinner cocktails. I walked into the 3-family where he was renting an apartment. I asked him how much rent he was paying. He said like $800. I looked at the building, I did the math. I asked him, what do you think these sell for? He was like, I don't know. I looked online, they were like $240. I was like, I can make money here. I can make money here. So I bought one and then very quickly bought another one. And within the first 5 years of getting into real estate, I went from 0 doors to 42 in about 5 years, which again, that was during a time when you could finance and You could create a lot of leverage.

And then you shared with me, so let's kind of go to this point. And I said to you, I love picking people with experience for the show, right? Now the listeners know this. So you went through the crash. Talk about some lessons there because we both got beat up.

It's awesome. Probably the best worst time of my life, right? So I closed on my biggest acquisition in May of 2008. I like to say I was young and dumb and just too aggressive, and I had a lot of smart people around me telling me to slow down. But it's really hard to listen when you think that you know everything. And there's probably a lot of your listeners that are there now that I'm the old guy saying, hey, slow down, do it better, right? You can't fix a broken market.

Yep.

But I closed on the biggest acquisition I had had in May of 2008. Enron was Like November of that same year, right? So that was like 4 months before, 5 months before the total economic collapse, right?

I think I've—

we'll learn that on that one. It was a 12-unit condo conversion, which again, like you couldn't, if you couldn't write a worse decision, right? Like, like, yeah, we'll learn that too. That's funny. Yeah, it was funny. It was a fractured condo conversion. It was a 12-unit. Half the units were done, the other half weren't. The guys that were doing them were in trouble. I'm like, I'll save, I know how to, I'm so smart, I'll do it. So sure enough, I borrowed like, you know, I bought it as part of a package. So it was like a 12-unit condo conversion plus a 12-unit apartment building. The apartment building actually crushed, but I cross-collateralized, I took a cross-collateralized loan on both properties and within, I don't know, 24 months, the values of those properties plummeted. By north of 40%. I got a reappraised value, which put me under the 70% LTV, even though I never missed a payment, never stopped paying taxes, never missed anything. Because by the way, at the time, I was also kicking up my real estate business, which was funny enough, best lesson ever. Don't run a profitable business just to support one that's losing money.

Yeah, I've done that too.

Just shut down the one losing money and go make money, right?

Nice.

But I was too young. Too young and too dumb and too aggressive and too, you know, to know that lesson yet. And so I got this fractured condo conversion. They cross-collateralized with my other property, and when they reappraised it in 2011, they found that I had dropped below the 70% LTV and they called the note, which was, I mean, I'm 32 years old at the time, 33 years old with 2 kids under 5, and suddenly I get a note for a million. You owe us a million dollars.

Yeah.

Where do you think that's coming from, dude? Meanwhile, all the other properties that I had, which had gotten me to that point, had really good equity in them. And so I started doing again what uneducated investors do. I started selling off the good assets to hang onto the bad ones in order to put myself in a position where I didn't have to go backwards. But Knowing what I know now, I wish I had my own self as an advisor because there probably would've been an exit out of that. But the good news is this, it was a terrible experience. I hung on by my fingernails for the better part of the next 3 years, slowly selling off all the assets with the exception of one, which I managed to consolidate equity around and pay off. So I managed to end this 42-apartment Extravaganza with one, one two-family that I owned, which was in a premium location that I sold actually in 2021 for almost $700,000. Nice. It wasn't a total loss, but it was a lot of years of pain and suffering to get to an outcome that most people would not measure that as a success. Yeah. There were a lot of other ways to make better money, but—

You know, it doesn't matter if you're brand new to real estate or if you've been doing this for several years or a whole bunch of years. I learned the hard way. Back during the crash that doing creative deals is much better. It's a much better path in real estate in general than, let's call it, the old way— getting paid once, using banks, signing personally. 3 paydays, getting paid 3 times on a deal, it's better. 3 ways, not one. Money now, money over time, and money long-term. And I don't care if you're in an up-down sideways market, it doesn't matter. You can and should operate with the utmost confidence. There's literally nothing I love more than helping people create systems and simple systems and processes to become massively successful with our 3 Payday System, and doing so in literally any market and doing it geographically literally anywhere. So if you've been learning and learning and listening and studying and not taking action, I'm telling you after going through it myself, it's costing you tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars by not taking action on the 3 paydays the way you should be getting paid. Many of the people that were brand new, just like you, that joined our community have fast-tracked their startup. Now, I mean, wouldn't that be ideal? If you said, okay, should I go fast or slow? Should I take action now or later? It's costing you too much money to wait. Each one of you are at a point in your life, I'm sure, where you want things to be easier. You want things to be better for you and your family. You probably realize that you not only want more, but you deserve more in this life. So, to be able to give your family everything they want, build a legacy, For you personally too, and to have time freedom to start enjoying life. Frankly, whatever else you're seeking. And for some of you, now's the time, for example, to just focus on security. Maybe it's building a big solid bank account for retirement. We take these things super, super seriously, and it's my life's biggest reward to help you achieve them. I want to give you a free discovery session with our team. It's free. It's 15 or 20 minutes. You have zero to lose and everything to gain. And to understand how you might fit into the 3 Payday System that we've done now in over 80 markets as of this filming, go to smartrealestatecoachpodcast.com/discovery for a free call with our team. smartrealestatecoachpodcast.com/discovery. Because it's not whether or not you can do it or whether or not you fit, you can do it. It's whether or not you'll take action and do what it takes, and we can guide you through that process.

smartrealestatecoachpodcast.com/discovery.

We'll see you soon. Well, we gotta, as I set off here, we gotta hang out. So we'll figure out a way to do that more and teach a bunch more people not to do what we did.

I would love to. Yeah. I mean, again, it was a great learning experience. I learned about, you know, in retrospect, I can look at it and understand the value of having a sound runway and that your capacity for holding is really largely dependent on your your financial capacity for not only earning, but also what you have in reserves. And back then, when you're 30 years old, you don't think reserves are a real thing. You think you're just going to live. For me, I was accustomed to the paycheck-to-paycheck mindset. And so I just rolled that same concept into a bigger problem. So when the paycheck stopped, so did the money and everything had to roll backwards. I am proud of the fact that I came out of that I had no bankruptcies and no short sales.

Yeah.

So, and no foreclosures. So I was able to unwind that entire debacle without having to do any sort of, without having any sort of negative long-term credit implications. It doesn't mean that I didn't suffer tremendously. Yeah. You know, had to pay bills on credit cards for a while.

So yeah. There's 98% of that that I was going, yep, me too. That's just, The same stuff. So that, yeah, that was the impetus to everything we're doing too. So I appreciate it big time. So let's talk about, there's a lot of solopreneurs, Matt, listening, and that was you and I once upon a time. In fact, I was a solopreneur until my son and son-in-law and some team members came in and started actually saying, let's scale this. And then we got some help scaling it. Before we talk about that, because I know you've done an amazing job with that end of things, Were there mentors along the way for you? And if there were, how important was that? I should have asked that.

Always. Always. I mean, there's mentors today. I mean, I count myself incredibly lucky that at each stage of growth, one of the things that happens is you get invited into new rooms, right? So if you're brand new to some business, there's a room of people that you're hanging out with who are likely the people that you look up to, right? Maybe they're They're one step ahead of you or 2 steps ahead of you. And you might think of somebody like me and think like, oh, that guy's way out there, like way too far ahead. And the reality is that each time you accomplish something, there's a new room that you can get into. I was always insanely intentional about getting into new rooms. There was always a room that I was trying to go find, which were the people that were doing the things that I wanted to do.

Same.

And I was very intentional about it to a point where People would often ask like, wow, you travel a lot for somebody who's doing real estate. And it's like, I'm going on airplanes to go find the people that I can learn from. I think that what I learned about myself, because I'm 50 now, I'll be 51 at the end of this month. And I think what I learned is that I'm actually not a money-motivated person. I always thought I was. I thought that like the reason I did all this was that it was because I wanted the economic return. But I've reached a point in my life where I I have the economic return, I have the money, and I'm still getting on airplanes and going to learn from people. And so what I think I really figured out is that I'm actually a learning-driven person that, and that business just happens to be my sport. I just love business and I love the nature of it and I love the nature of the relationships and the deal-making so that I'm always trying to find people that are doing bigger, better, more interesting deals that are things that I can learn about. And so I constantly am pushing myself to get in those rooms and The great news is that I figured out how to do it without losing money like I used to. Now I know how to do it and make sure that I say yes to the deals that actually make me money.

I love it.

So yeah, lots of really important mentors along the way.

I'm so glad I asked because proximity and sort of association, and you call it getting in the room, is so cool how you said it. Actually funny, we started, we do Deal Room now and Deal Lab, but the Deal Room, Is for people that are in our community, they come in and they're just at a higher level. It's more advanced. And this is really cool.

It's literally one of our catchphrases in my organization. It's called Get in the Room, that there's a room that you need to get in. And the tricky thing is that people will often say like, how do I get in there? And it's like, well, the funny part is you actually don't ever get invited. You kind of have to kick the door in or you got to pay. Like nobody is out there looking for more people that they can invite into a room. They're looking for the room that they can get into. And a lot of times you want to be in the room with those people. You kind of got to make your way in. You got to show up. And I get, like I said, I was relentless about that.

That's awesome, guys. That's a writer down. Like if I stop the show right now, if I look back in my 34 years going on 35, I can tell you almost every major pivot financially and personal growth was because of getting in a different room. I call it proximity association. Matt calls it getting in the room. I love it. So good stuff, Matt. Let's talk about that move from solopreneur to scaling a business and actually being a business owner or CEO hat, if you will. Talk about that a little bit and at whatever level you want.

Yeah, I think, well, let me, I'll talk about the beginning and then where I'm at today because they're so dramatically different, but they fundamentally are the same concept. One of our key principles, one of my personal key principles, and one of the things that I've figured out happens over and over again is that more often than not, you are the bottleneck to your own business's growth, and you are the reason that it's not growing at the rate that you want. And so when you think in terms of what is a bottleneck, a bottleneck is a pinch point where things are not flowing properly. There's more trying to go in than there is going out, and that's usually because you're at your capacity for management. The first time I experienced that was actually in my real estate business. So it was before It was in the transition out of the property management, recognizing that I had a real estate license and that the real estate license was really the fastest, lowest risk path to getting regular paychecks, right? That's why that business was so attractive to me. So while I had this big portfolio, at the same time, that portfolio was not making the money that it needed to make in order to cover its expenses. But I could go find a buyer, find a seller, help them through a process that I happen to be very good at. And at the end of 60 to 90 days, there was a paycheck. And usually that paycheck was sizable enough that I could pay my bills at home and then take the rest and let it fund this debacle of a dumpster fire that I was calling my real estate portfolio, right? So I figured out that the more of those I could do, the more of those I could stack, the more money I could make. But there came a point where I was the number one listing agent in my office. And it was somewhere, I think it was 2012, it was like early 2012. And so we were still very much in like the short sale era here in Connecticut. We hadn't quite come out the other side. And I took like 13 listings in a single month, right? And a lot of them were short sales, but some of them weren't. And that level of work that came along with getting the listing, was beyond my scope. It was more than I could handle. Yeah. And I got a phone call in one day. I got a phone call from an important client of mine, and he called early in the morning. It was around 10:00 AM and left me a message. And just because of the nature of the way things were in my life, the chaotic nature of having all those apartments and all the clients and the new listings, plus the buyers that I was working with, I just didn't have a chance to get back to him. I just hadn't. I wasn't sitting on my hands. I just literally was running all day. And somewhere around 5 o'clock that very same evening, he called again. And the second message was not a polite one. It was not a kind one. It was, you're too busy for me. I called you this morning. I needed to talk to you. I haven't heard back from you. I've been sitting here all day frustrated, and I think I need to go in a different direction. So effectively, he fired me. And it was in that moment that I realized I am number one, still not making the money that I want to make. And number 2, I'm at capacity. And so I'm the bottleneck. So I'm actually the problem right now. And so that experience led me to constantly look for the points in my life, in my calendar, in my day where too many things are stacking up and recognize that what that really is, isn't about using time as a hack. It's not about, which means don't just say, cool, I have more work to do. and work yourself to death. Go find somebody else to do that work. And that means you have to make less money in the transaction that you're in. It means that you have to pay that person, you have to compensate them fairly, but it also means that you no longer have to do that work. And if you run a business that works effectively, you will create enough opportunity that a lot of people can come along with you. So today we're a real estate team of 35 full-time agents that are between New York, Connecticut, and Massachusetts. We have a staff of 7 full-time people, plus I run 3 other companies. All of which have W-2 employees attached to them as well. And I don't really have a lot of jobs in those companies, right? My job is direct and inform and counsel and lead. But everybody else has real clear jobs because as soon as a job lands on my plate, I immediately start thinking who else should be doing this job.

That's awesome. So the advice for a solopreneur listening, this is a good transition as we get to the end is, and they're like me for years stuck in that. I can work more harder, harder, harder. You can get to a million, right? I think you'd agree. You can get to a million by working harder and having a miserable lifestyle. We used to go past that. What's your simple, it's not as simple, but what's your shortest advice to them? What's the next move?

All right. So this is a framework that I teach. The most important thing to know is that you probably suck at 50% of the things that you do. That if you're a solopreneur, there is a solid 50% of the things that you do that you are, you don't just moderately get by, you probably suck at them compared to how well they could be done. Then there's like 40% of the things that you do that you're like, okay, at, you're not great, but you're bet, you know, you maybe you're average or a little bit above average. But then there's like 10% of the things that you do that you're actually freaking awesome at. The goal to live a really fulfilling, action-packed life, the goal to wake up every day excited to go to work is to do as much of the stuff that sits in your 10% as you possibly can. What is the thing that you're actually awesome at that has gotten you to the point that you're at? Now, for a solopreneur, for a lot of entrepreneurs, that could be relationship building, that could be strategic thinking, that could be deal identification, that could be fixing complex problems. It could be Whatever it is, your goal should be figure out how to do as much as you possibly can in your strength, in the thing that you're awesome at, and give away every other thing. I have a really good friend of mine who runs a big development company, and he recently said, I work on big, broken, and new. And I thought that was great.

Okay.

And basically, he was like, if it's big, I work on it. If it's broken, I work on it. If it's new, I work on it. Anything else is someone else's job.

All right.

So, so you, you spend whatever time you can as an, as an independent solo operator thinking about the parts of your business that you're awesome at. Now, here's the tricky part. You have to be okay with this, with stuff burning. And this is where a lot of people slow down. You have to be okay with understanding the difference between, I heard this recently, a kitchen fire and a dumpster fire. That a kitchen fire is tragic and has to be dealt with because if you don't deal with it, it burns your whole freaking house down. But a dumpster fire, shit, that's outside burning inside of a metal container. It'll burn, it'll burn, and sometimes it'll just smolder. Alex Hormozi says you have to get okay with sometimes things just stay broken. Like, there are parts of your business that are not operating at peak efficiency. There will always be, no matter what. By the way, that's what makes business fun. If you look at every big business, whether it's Meta or Google or SpaceX or whatever, they're fixing shit all the time. That's what they're doing. Literally, SpaceX sends rockets up into space that explode. Like, they do that and they know they're going to do it. So, like, they're not waiting to get it perfect. They're actually just solving the broken part.

Imperfect action.

Yeah, exactly. So, your intention when you decide that you want to grow your business is grow it in a way where you get to do the stuff that you're great at and that moves the business the fastest. Don't grow it in a way where you're leaning into the shit you suck at, which is, which is most people's inclination. Most people's instinct says, this part of my business is the most broken, so I'm going to go spend the most time there.

That's true.

It's the opposite. It's actually the opposite. Don't spend any time on the broken shit that you aren't the one that should solve. Go find someone else to solve it and go do what you're awesome at. I love it.

Matt, there's going to be a lot of people that want to connect with you on this stuff. I'm ready to connect, but they're going to want to connect with you. So, share with these guys how to reach you because we unpacked some really cool stuff and I'm super glad how you wrapped that up. So, they go, I need more.

I got to go. Awesome. Yeah. Well, so, a number of different things you can do. I have a I've got a pretty good Instagram presence, @MattMialeTeam. Also @MattMiale. Both of those are profiles on Instagram, but @MattMialeTeam tends to have more of our business-minded content. I've also got a website, mattmiale.com, which outlines a bunch of courses that I teach. And everything that I focus on, like we talked about, Chris, is really around team building and organizational structure. So I don't really do like your traditional agent coaching or agent consulting. I consult with large real estate teams, happen to right now be consulting with 2 of the largest teams in the country. And basically I come in like Winston Wolfe from Pulp Fiction and I solve problems, right? I look at organizational structure, I look at process flow, which is interesting because I'm fundamentally a salesperson, but I'm so passionate about creating businesses that kick out huge profits, especially in real estate. We are so blessed, ladies and gentlemen. We are so, so blessed to be in this business. It's such an incredible business. So, so rewarding. So yeah, feel free to check out the website. Go check me out on Instagram. That's the best place to find me.

Love it. And blessed to be in it now. Like, this is great right now.

It's amazing.

Matt, super cool chat. High energy and as expected, just all kinds of nuggets. I look forward to doing more with you. And I promise the listeners that Matt and I will be hanging out a little bit and you're going to hear more from us. Matt, thanks, buddy. Thanks for coming on.

Thank you, Chris. Thank you so much.

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