The Emotional Intelligence Gap: Is Your Leadership Hurting Your Business?

As companies scale, the habits that got them here often end up being the bottlenecks that stop them from going further.

It's culture drift, Josh. Those same leadership habits that drove early success can quietly create bottlenecks and friction.

Exactly. We call that paying the invisible tax on scaling, and frankly, no one wants to pay it.

No, and by bridging the gap between human behavior and operational discipline, we help you cancel that invisible tax.

We equip teams with the diagnostic playbooks they need to eliminate conflict, hold teams accountable, and build a business that thrives with or without you in the room.

Because kindness without clarity is just expensive avoidance.

If you're ready to stop paying the invisible tax, head over to businessfixpodcast.com and let's get your business moving forward. When we say the word emotional intelligence, what do you think?

Process.

Really?

Yeah. Process and a set of tools.

In terms of what?

Things that you use to prove that you have intelligence around how to navigate your own emotions.

Ah, do you think that's like— we're going to talk about— there's a slight gap between what people do and what people think.

Yeah, most of us are emotionally stupid, not intelligent.

That's why we're going to talk about it this week. Stay tuned. She's the CEO.

He's the marketing and operations guy.

If it's broken, you need...

The Business Fix.

There have been many times where I have been sitting in the room and you see the— like, I had a view into the parking lot and I can see the boss get out of the car.

Okay.

And you're— as you watch that, you're trying to figure out, do I need to go to the bathroom now and hide? Do I like—

is this the day where I pop my head out of my cubicle and say hey, or is this where I just quietly work?

Right. Put my headphones on, type things.

Yes.

Right. Do I go to the bathroom? Do I call in sick even though I'm already here?

The emotional weather patterns of people. Yes.

And the problem is, is like I want to address this in a way that it is like most business owners, most good managers are emotional beings.

Yeah.

It's what makes us good.

Yes.

It's what makes us passionate about what we're doing.

Yes.

We don't want to neuter that.

Not completely.

We want to temper it. And we want to make sure that— I guess I'm going to refer to last week's episode. We want to make sure that you use your emotions for good.

Yeah.

And not as a weapon.

They are a useful tool.

The example that I always like to give when it comes to that is I've said this about people before too. I have said this person is an absolute weapon. We just need to make sure that they are tied down on our ship because otherwise they are going to roll around with the seas and probably shoot a hole in our own bow.

Yes.

Don't be that person in your own business where you're the loose cannon rolling around on the ship that may shoot a hole in your own bow.

Yeah, everybody's terrified which direction you're gonna go.

Right, right. Not to mention cannons are heavy. So they not only are they worried about the cannonball damage, they're also worried about getting run over.

Yes.

I've always been very well balanced and have never been Highly emot— right now.

Me either.

Right. I just had to say that.

I've always conducted myself with the utmost emotional intelligence skills.

Right, right. I've always been really good at this.

We're gonna talk to everybody else who's done it wrong.

Oh, please. I haven't— I've needed no work on this and will just continue to be just perfect about this.

Liar.

Yeah.

Um, Yeah, liar.

The nice thing is, is you're going to tackle the human side of this, and there's operations to it, and, and I like that. And I'm going to talk about like the operational side of this because I'm not going to be as good talking about the human side of this.

That's okay, that's why we do this together.

Correct. And to me, I feel like I'm showing emotional intelligence by saying like, look, Go ahead, Chrissy.

Yeah.

So with this, we both know founders and we both work with them that see emotional intelligence as HR fluff.

Yeah, absolutely.

They, they see it as the, ah, what the hell, that's this like rainbow unicorn.

We'll make them feel good so they'll do their job.

Right, right. Here, just have pizza instead. From the visionary and personnel standpoint, yeah, why, like, why is a leader's lack of self-awareness Typically the single fastest way that employee retention and team trust get destroyed.

Yeah. So first off, for those people that think emotional intelligence is soft, it's generally because they don't want to admit how expensive their own reactivity can be.

Holy cow. That— I mean, should we call the episode there?

We're done. I mean, mic drop, right? You are the problem. No.

Well, to me, I feel like what we should just do is take that one line. Most of our podcasts are anywhere between 35 and 55 minutes. The next 35 or 55 minutes is just going to be that one line playing over and over again.

Leaders call emotional intelligence soft because they do not want to admit how explosive their own reactivity can be. Yes.

Yeah.

And I say that as somebody who's— I've done it wrong. I have had to learn the hard way from some of these things by reacting the wrong way, or not the most appropriate way, or not the most ideal way, however you want to couch it to give yourself Some encouragement. You can fix these things.

We've done messed this up, both of us, badly.

We have, really badly. It's been an expensive lesson that I've had to learn more than once. So just—

I was about to say, for me, it's definitely plural lessons.

Yeah. And so we're going to talk about it because, you know, emotional intelligence is not about being calm every second of every day. Because I think that's the other thing is like people pivot to like, well, I just need to be able to just show no emotion. No, that's not realistic. Because we're human.

No one wants to follow a robot.

No, and we get frustrated, we get tired, we get disappointed, you know, we get overwhelmed, and it's okay for our team to see some of those things occasionally. Low emotional intelligence becomes a business problem when the leader's mood becomes the operating system.

Yikes.

Yeah, and that's when the team stops executing and starts interpreting. They stop asking, what's the priority? And then they start asking, well, what's the version of her that we're getting today? Right? Is it sunshine? Is it silence? Is it tornadic activity? Like what mood?

The poop tornado.

Yes. What mood is he or she going to do? Like what are we gonna get? And that costs the business more than leaders really want to admit. 'Cause when your team can't predict how you're going to respond, they're going to stop bringing you the truth. And low EQ doesn't just make people uncomfortable, it makes the business less honest. So, and employees stop saying, here's what went wrong, I think this process is broken, or I need help. They start managing your mood instead of managing managing the work. And high performers are usually the first ones to feel that because high performers want to solve problems.

Yep.

They want to tell the truth, they want to make the business better, but if every piece of feedback turns into defensiveness from you as the leader, if it turns into blame, it turns into an emotional explosion, they stop trying, or worse yet, they leave. And that's the hidden cost of that emotional intelligence or lack thereof. It's not just turnover, it's the silence that happens before the turnover, you know, in the meeting where everyone nods but nobody believes what's going on. It's the manager who softens the truth because they don't want to deal with the fallout, or the employee who sees the problem but decides it's not worth the reaction. You know, I see an issue, but you know, it's not worth Chrissy's reaction on that, so I'm just not going to bring it to her. That is a problem. And it's incredibly dangerous for a CEO or business owner, or even a manager, because you're leading from filtered information.

It's funny you say that because I see it all the time. Where there's the CEO that has the yes men.

Yes.

And when you see that, you're like, dude, you have no idea what's happening in your business.

No, you think you have alignment, but what you really have is compliance.

Yep.

And silent compliance is not trust, it's self-protection. So emotionally intelligent leadership is learning to pause, perceive, and proceed with clarity. We have 3 Ps. I know I brought the letter people back. 3 Ps.

They're back.

They're back. I mean, I got to bring— I actually got to bring the letter people back off my fridge.

You need to bring them back in.

Yeah. So I think the framework's really simple. It's pause, perceive, proceed. So these are the 3 things you need to know or do as you're starting to build your emotional intelligence. So when you're like, well, I don't think every— I think everything's fine. Nobody ever brings me a problem. Listen to me right now.

You're the problem.

You're the problem. So we're going to pause, perceive, proceed. So first, pause. Pause before you react. Before you send the message, call the meeting, correct the employee, change the direction, and unload your stress on your team. Stop long enough to regulate your emotion. Not forever. It's not like you have to stop and not do anything. Long enough to make your emotional state and make sure that it is not everyone else's emergency. Calm yourself. Pause. Then we're going to pursue—

Check yourself.

Check yourself before you wreck your organization. Not just yourself, It's check yourself before you wreck everything around you. Hey.

You're setting me up for all the good things like this here, Chrissy. Thank you.

You're gonna have a good time. All right, so then you're gonna perceive. We're gonna ask ourselves, what's actually happening here? Emotional awareness around this. Is this a people issue? Is this a process? Is this a communication? Is it a capacity issue? Or am I just triggered? How dare we use that word triggered because this feels personal and an attack towards me.

Can I add something to what is actually happening here?

Yes.

You need to ask it as, what is actually happening here? Not, what the hell?

No, it's, what is actually happening here? That is the question in that tone. What is actually happening?

Not, what the hell, Bob?

No. All right. And that step really matters. That's probably— you pause first, perceive and ask that question. That step matters because leaders have to separate the event From the story they are telling themselves about the event. Because it's not about what happened, it's the story that we tell ourselves. Huge. And then it's proceed. So once we've paused, we've perceived, we're going to proceed. And that is proceed with a few things: clarity, facts, and accountability. Do not proceed with your ego driving the bus.

Why not?

Because you're going to wreck it.

Because it's going to crash. And it's going to— You're going to kill it.

All your employees are on the bus.

Yes. And you're gonna crash.

And they're watching you drive them. And they're like, oh my gosh, if they are not capable of getting us where we need to go, they're all gonna leave eventually. You cannot live in this way forever.

No.

And people are like, well, this is the way it's always been. No, it's not. Eventually, they're gonna leave. So self-awareness is an executive responsibility.

Yes.

It's really important. So you have to remember, can you recognize what those things are that cause you to elevate? Dare I say again, Recognize your triggers? Can you understand the impact that your reaction is going to have on the room? When people are like, when CEOs and managers go, well, my people are resilient, they can just do it, they'll be fine. Maybe once, maybe twice, but you create this pattern, they're not going to stay here. They're not going to stay through your emotional temper tantrum storms. Eventually, they're going to go, there are other places where I can work. I mean, a great question that you can ask yourself is, can you receive bad news without punishing the messenger?

Ooh, big one.

Yeah. If someone in my organization brings me news that I don't necessarily want to hear, I say, thank you for telling me. We always say thank you, even if we don't like it. Because if the answer is no, I can't take feedback or news without punishing the messenger, your team is going to stop telling you what you need to know. And once that happens, your execution starts breaking down before your numbers show it. So the goal is not to be emotionless. The goal is really to become trustworthy. Pause before you react, perceive what is actually happening, proceed with clarity, not ego, because again, emotionally intelligent leadership is learning to pause, perceive, and proceed.

We've all sat through those keynotes.

The ones where everyone nods, feels great for an hour. And then leaves without a single tool It feels good in the room, but it doesn't fix the bottleneck, the culture drift, or the manager who's afraid to have a hard conversation.

That is why we created The Business Fix Live. You know that we aren't interested in empty motivation at all.

No, we bring the practical side of leadership. Josh handles the operations and accountability, and I handle the culture and the people stuff.

Whether you need a keynote for your summit or a deep dive workshop for your managers, we help you stop avoiding the hard conversations. Avoiding the real issues. We give your team frameworks to stop the chaos and start the growth.

So if you're ready for speakers who actually deliver results, head over to businessfixpodcast.com and book us for your next event.

Let's stop the fluff and start fixing your business. The the three P's there: pause, proceed.

Just. Cause, perceived, perceived.

You always find a way to tie these in.

I'm trying really hard. That's like my mission is to make it simple.

So I have worked with a number, but one in particular that always comes up with this that led with emotional volatility. I mean, the slightest bit of stress, they just lose their shit is the only way I can put it.

Yep.

They would always blame others, and no matter what you did, the goalposts would move. What happens to, like, the psychological safety of a team when, like, I, I know some of them are like, we have to push, we have to push, we have to, and they get all, like, they get all amped up about it. What happens to people? Like, does that get them to work harder, or is this survival mode?

Oh, they default to survival mode. It's like, duh. But, you know, and they may still look busy, and that's what makes it tricky.

I have done that so many times where I'm like, bosses come and type a random email. Yeah, it can be complete gibberish.

Yeah, survival mode can look productive from the outside. It's answering emails, they're still in meetings. It sounds good. That sounds like a great idea to the boss. They're just like, yes. They all become those people. Yes, that sounds wonderful. They're moving around and doing things, but internally they are not giving you their best thinking. No, they're managing risk. They're choosing their words carefully. They're avoiding hard conversations, they're delaying bad news, and that's not high performance, that's emotional containment. They're just doing it for the sake of your feelings. So, again, psychological safety doesn't mean everyone feels warm and fuzzy all day. It means people know they can tell the truth, ask questions, admit mistakes, raise a concern without being punished, humiliated, or dealing with your emotional blasts. So leaders with low EQ destroy that safety because the team learns the real rule, which is Do not bring problems to the leader when they're in a bad mood, or don't challenge that idea.

Yep.

That's Barb's idea. We're not going to challenge it because she's in charge. Don't ask clarifying questions. Don't admit you're confused. Don't ask for more information. Survive the meeting. We'll fix it later. That's what that is. And now problems are underground, and the leader thinks the team is fine because nobody's bringing me any problems. Everybody says everything's fine. I mean, everyone said yes to my idea. Well, yeah, because the last time they told you no, you threw a temper tantrum, a They would just like basically fit and wouldn't talk to anybody for 2 weeks. And then you brought them all pizza and they're like, well, we'll just eat the pizza. We'll keep getting paid while we're looking for our other job that we want to do where somebody isn't going to yell at us and we're just going to wait. So instead of just like creating that environment where you've got silence and you think that silence is acceptance, it's not, I promise you. Sometimes silence is the sound of people giving up. Let's pause, perceive, proceed.

Silence is the sound of people giving up.

Yes.

Oh, that's—

If you're in— yes. If you're in meetings that require a high level of innovation and No one is talking. It's just you as the business leader or the manager. Silence is the sound of people giving up.

I truly love that. I truly love that.

Yeah. So that's why we pause, perceive, and proceed. Because once truth leaves the room, performance is going to follow it. So if we don't pause before we react, perceive what is actually happening, and proceed in a way that keeps truth in the room, we're going to continue to do it wrong.

I feel like Like, truth doesn't even follow it. I feel like once— I feel like performance doesn't even follow it. I feel like once truth leaves the room, it had performance on its back.

Like it's dragging it with it.

They were piggyback. Yeah.

I mean, they're walking hand in hand. Peace.

Peace out. Peace out. They're skipping out of the room. They're frolicking. How do you get a leader who genuinely believes their emotional outbursts are just high standards and passion? How do you get— like, I've— and I've been around that too. They're like, we're passionate about the business. And I'm like, no, it seems like you're really passionate about being angry most of the time.

Yeah.

How do you get them to run that EQ diagnostic?

So part of it is having someone who's brave enough to tell them. Again, this is why a lot of times entrepreneurs work with coaches. And I think everyone should, to some degree. Passion and reactivity are not the same thing. And I think a lot of high-standards passionate people, I'm putting that in quotations, are reactive.

Yes.

So passion creates energy, excitement. Reactivity creates fear. Passion gives people something to believe in. Reactivity teaches people what to avoid. And A lot of leaders confuse the two because they're attached to their own intensity. They'll say, I'm just passionate, but the team sees them as unpredictable. They'll say, I have high standards, and the team experiences it as moving the goalposts. If you have high standards and your high standards keep moving once your team achieves them, congratulations. You keep moving the goalposts and you're a jerk. If someone says, I just want excellence, but the team experiences it as nothing is ever good enough, Yeah. That's, I mean, again, keep moving the goalposts, keep— it's never good enough. I just want excellence. I just need you to do better.

To me, like the passion piece, the passion and reactivity. Passion truly is what gets you through the hard times.

Yes.

It's not what makes you yell.

No.

Passion is what drives the hard times.

Reactivity Well, and to me, passion is the explanation of why we're doing the thing.

Yes.

Here's why it is important. Here's how we're helping. Here's how your contribution is helping us to continue to care for our customers. That's passion. That's excitement about a product. It's excitement about people and purpose. I can't believe that this happened. That is reactivity. That is not passion. It's not. And so here's what I mean.

I've heard this so many times. I love it. You probably have.

So, The EQ diagnostic around this for a leader starts with impact, not intent. So don't ask yourself, did I mean well? Most leaders mean well. Okay, well, did I mean well? Yes, you want your business to be successful. Rarely is there someone who's like, I want this to tank. No, you don't. Did you mean well? Yeah, you probably did. Ask yourself, what happened in the room after I reacted?

Yes.

After I said this, this way, Or threw my stapler, what happened? Did people get clearer? Did the conversation get more honest? Did the problem move forward? I mean, or did people shut down? Did they get defensive? Did people get quiet? If no one responded after I yelled, maybe that was the wrong choice. So I mean, that's the mirror. And I would ask the leader to, again, look at those patterns.

I love how calmly you said that.

Yeah.

Then maybe that's the wrong choice.

And it's all data, right?

It truly is.

And then, I mean, if the leader is brave enough, this is like, I would say, do this. If you are brave enough, ask your direct reports one question, and it's this. What is the one thing I do under stress that makes your job harder? And then listen. Don't defend, don't explain, don't punish the honesty, just listen. If you really want to get better at this, or see if you have issues around it, ask that question. What's the one thing I do under stress that makes your job harder? I'm afraid of the answer to that question at times, but I will ask it. What's the one thing that I did? Well, you've got 4 million ideas. Oh, okay.

And from an operational perspective too, that's brilliant. Now, the thing that I like with that, well, you know where my brain goes to is I am only like, I have to write down 4 things that I am allowed to say to that. Okay, thank you. We need to look into this together. Yes. Like things like that, that are all like, basically thank you adjacent. And that's all that you can say. Make it an improv game if you have to. But I totally agree with that.

Well, and if you're completely incapable of asking that question yourself, but you want to know what the answer is, then that's when you hire someone to help ask We know people. Yes, different all the time.

We know people that can help with that.

Yeah. So we know as we work through those frameworks, we've talked about DEAR MAN, GIVE FAST. That's a really great way to kind of talk through how to get your needs met, having those concerns. You're really, by asking the question around, what can I do, or what do I do that makes your job harder, you're building that clarity of respect, and that's leadership maturity. And it's really a leader who can pause, perceive, and proceed is not less passionate, They are more trustworthy. And this is not about passion. This is about building trust in your organization so that you can continue to move forward and you don't react, you just act.

This truly is, it is about moving forward. That's what it is. And it's creating a way to move forward.

Yeah. So let's talk about operations, right?

Yay.

How does a leader's lack of emotional intelligence manifest as operational debt? And how do you build the system So emotional volatility doesn't ruin the daily execution? Because we know some of our listeners may have to deal with a reactive leader. And so sometimes we have to build the system while the leader works on the coaching and getting awareness around that issue. Sadly, sometimes we have to work around it. So how do we build it?

I have done that in a few situations. To me, There's a couple of pieces that I look that happen that as businesses scale and as business— as people work in businesses, the one that I want to talk about first is the kayak versus the rowboat analogy here. So when you're running a solo operation or there's one person or maybe there's just 2 other people with you, flick of the wrist, you can turn that boat around.

Yeah.

You've got a 10-person team. You are no longer in a kayak. You're steering a 10-person crew boat. Those are 40 to 50 feet long. You cannot throw your weight to one side and expect everyone in the company to spin on a dime. So the problem is, is when you get an emotionally volatile boss that makes sudden unannounced pivots, suddenly you've got all the paddles in the boat clashing. Water starts to come in, like the boat's rocking violently, and you have Zero momentum in any direction because everyone's now trying to go in every direction. To me, low EQ leaders in so many, in so many ways, they act like they're still paddling a kayak.

They are still paddling a kayak.

Correct. The problem is, is they're in a bigger boat.

Yes.

And so they're completely oblivious to the chaos and the friction that they cause around the entire crew. Yeah. So Like, the other piece to this is the mood-based SOP override.

Oh.

I know I've addressed this before, and this is the problem. And I love when you said the, um, uh, I've mandated this for the not-for-me thing. And so, so many managers, especially owners, do this. I was at a company, we were More than 170 people.

Yeah.

And the owner's like, I own it. Rules are whatever I want them to be.

Yeah, I'll do what I want. You do what I pay you to do. No. Yes.

He had actually said that at one point.

Right. There's a reason why you're here now.

Right. Correct. So the problem is, is when what happens in so many cases when operational pressure for whatever reason spikes, be it we've got a supplier issue, be it we just— congratulations, you just got a big order. Yeah. Low EQ leaders, often they panic and they blurt out immediate rules or verbal overrides, and that they're trying to relieve their personal anxiety.

Yeah.

The other one that I've seen too is a metric dips or a client complains, complains, a single bad review or one KPI drop, instant panic. Have I mentioned that once is not a pattern?

Well, and what someone says in a sentence may not actually be the reality. Their complaint Correct. May not be accurate. Like, I'm not saying that, like, they don't have a right to complain. I'm just saying, you need to research what happened. Because there are times where we get complaints on the insurance side, and it has nothing to do with us. They're like, this person's unhappy, you need to do something about it. And it's like, well, let's listen to what they have to say. Oh, they're mad because Anthem didn't return their phone call when they said they were going to. That has nothing to do with us. You are unresponsive. I'm like, no, no, no, we're very responsive. I can't control whether or not a robot's going to call them back, but I'll call them and say, hey, have you talked to this? No, no, we're going to change our whole process because some other business didn't do what they were supposed to do.

No, no, not happening.

No.

The other thing that I see is too, is whenever a deadline's fast approaching, like time pressures, I get it. We feel them all the time.

We do.

Bosses freak out, so they'll start, just do it this way. No, no, that's, that's when stuff really breaks. An issue happened earlier in production. And sometimes it could be a supplier issue. They are carrying that, there's a morning breakdown. And so their afternoon is already ruined. Don't, don't let that do it. The other thing is too, is instead of like, let's say there's a missed handoff somewhere, instead of auditing the process, they emotionally just start micromanaging everything. Damn it, I got to do everything myself around here.

No, don't do that.

The other thing that I think is too, is like, This is— and any one of those typically result in the illusion of speed. And this is the trap that so many owners and managers fall into.

This is learned helplessness for your team.

Correct. It's faster if I just yell out the override right now than follow the documentation protocol. It is for the next 8 minutes. The next 10 years you will spend undoing this.

I don't understand why they can't work independently because you train them not to.

Correct. The other thing is too, is there's that system blindness. You have no idea how changing this affects accounting, how it changes inventory, how it— like, it— like, one of the things that I go back to, my dad, when he was teaching, he toured BMW's factory in South Carolina. Now mind you, this is 25 to 30 years ago. You know how much inventory they had on hand in terms of engines? 12 minutes.

Wow.

What happens if you change a process that changes something 30 seconds? It does not take long for you to run out of 12 minutes of engine inventory then.

Yeah.

Don't do that. So it's that system blindness that really, like, once again, when you react emotionally to stuff like this, you're going to screw everything else up throughout the rest of the company.

Yes.

Even if, and maybe especially if you are the owner. Because once again, we know you know everything.

Absolutely. Perfect.

Something else that I see is the interpretation tax. Like so many times it's that, it's that bandwidth loss because they're trying to figure out what kind of mood you're in today.

Yeah.

They in a good mood or a bad mood? Like I said, I would watch certain bosses get out of the car and I'd be like, do they look grumpy? And to me, it's like, what I always like to ask any owner or manager about this is to say, like, how would you like to get a massive boost in output from your current workforce without hiring a single extra person?

How do I do that? Right.

Be predictable.

Yeah, exactly.

Like productivity and leadership. Like, so there's been some productivity and research, leadership research done by Gallup, Harvard Business Review, and BambooHR.

Yeah.

I looked at an HR site. Aren't you proud of me?

I'm proud of you.

It consistently shows there was varying numbers on this.

Yes.

Pretty wide varying numbers on this. So I didn't necessarily want to put a number, but very consistently employees lose a significant amount of their daily cognitive daily cognitive bandwidth navigating manager volatility. Top that off with unspoken expectations and emotional unpredictability. Guess what? I've got no time to execute my core processes. Yes, because I am too busy figuring— trying to figure out what mood Josh is in today.

And losing any time regarding cognitive bandwidth because of your manager and lack of emotional intelligence is not No, it's not. It should be close to zero. There are plenty of other things that employees should be worrying about. I mean, we talk about presenteeism where you're at your job, but you're not doing your job because of the things. Emotional volatility of a manager or leader should never be a contributor to presenteeism, and it is, and it needs to be eliminated.

The question that I love about that too is the, like, you have to ask the question, And you're never going to get an honest answer, but you will get an honest reaction.

Yes.

If you say, hey, how does my mood affect your work? If you see an oh shit look on their face, they're always going to be like, oh no, no real effect.

Yes.

But if there's even one person that has an oh shit look on their face, and you will see it as plain as day because once again, they don't know how you're going to react.

Yes.

Why the hell is he asking me this question? This is scary stuff. Unless you're okay, then they're going to be like, no, there's no problem.

Or confused. Why are you asking me this?

Correct. Correct. To me, the hard reality, you can unlock that large jump in performance when you're predictable. We've— have we mentioned consistency about—

Clarity, consistency, and care. There's one of the C's of leadership.

Right. I believe we've talked about consistency.

A lot. Model what you mandate. Like, pass the mirror test.

Maybe ad nauseam here. There's a reason for that. When results are predictable, you've got the documented SOPs that dictate exactly how to get things done and what done looks like.

Yeah.

You don't have to manage that anymore.

Right.

It just happens.

Yes.

Imagine that. And people aren't guessing, how are you going to react to this? And when something does go wrong, they're going to realize he is here to help me fix this. Not, he's gonna lose his shit.

Yes, and I'm gonna get punished because I asked a question or because I looked the wrong way or because, you know, his favorite sports team lost something. Like, it— there's all the things, all the things. Socks are on the wrong feet. It's just, you know.

To me, there's, there's 3 things real quick with this that I always find funny is there's 3 ways employees handle this. There's the good mood, which is the, the unfunded expansion, like, hey, How, how, how's everyone doing on staff today? The problem is, you know what I find so funny about that? The big summit is just around the corner.

And if you're still wrestling with that nobody wants to work anymore narrative, it's time to stop complaining and start fixing.

We're taking the floor at 10:15 on October 15th to break down the real strategies for building a culture that actually works. We don't just want to see you there.

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And we'll see you at the big summit. Oh, that's a question. Like, why are they in a good mood?

100%.

They're never in a good mood. Why are they in a good mood? Right? We're all getting fired. It's instantly suspect.

Yes, it's instantly suspect. There's the bad mood, at which point they are gonna duck and cover. And then there is the, where the hell did that come from?

Oh yeah, I love that one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That, like, you see it all the time. Yeah, because you have, like, they can be in a great mood and they see, like, what, what's, what's this garbage can doing full? Like, dude, you were just in a great mood, like you just had spent a night with a supermodel.

Yep, you become a meteorologist for weather patterns around mood.

And all of There's a tornado because there's a wrapper outside of a garbage can here. These are the things that I just like, once again, like high EQ when it comes to operations means low friction. Yeah, they're not worried about you. They're worried about getting stuff done. And let's face it, we all want people to get stuff done. Yes, it's kind of why they're there.

Exactly.

So there is the 15-second emotional circuit breaker. Some people may need longer For me, a deep breath is usually good enough. But what we want to talk about here is separating the event from the response.

Pattern interrupt.

Right. There are 2 things. When— so when an operational fire happens, a client cancels, a deadline missed, low EQ leaders are going to react instantly with emotion. There's going to be anger, frustration, panic. High EQ operators are going to take that mandatory 15-second, maybe 15-minute pause just to be like, okay, look. Now here's the big thing about this. We all talk and everyone— this is where my marketing piece is going to step in— everyone's like, business moves fast, because we all see people running through offices with papers and advertisements. That's how we know business moves fast. Guess what? It doesn't move that fast.

No.

That 15 seconds, that 5-minute, like, calmness. Guess what? That is going to save you once again decades of culture rebuilding.

Yeah.

So hearing the advertisement, business moves fast. Guess what? It doesn't move that fast. Are you an ER doctor? No. Then take the time to think things through. What happened? What's the result that I want? From this? Your employees cowering underneath the workbench is probably not the result that you want.

They're going to be happy that you took 15 minutes to—

Correct. Because then you have to say, what do I need to do to get to where I want? Like those 3 questions: what the hell happened? What's the result that I want? And what are the actionable steps to get there?

Yeah.

If you think about those 3 things, Usually screaming isn't isn't in there.

It's never one of them.

It's it's usually not to no. And the problem is is we've all done this. We've all sent the the Slack message. We've all hit send on an email and gone, oh damn!

I wish I could recall that. Oh, they already read it.

Right.

Who's right? Don't send it.

Everyone's called the angry meeting. I mean, they've. at the— like, all of those things are just awful, horrible things.

Mhm.

Um, think about the speed at which this needs to be handled. In most cases, an extra 30 seconds will do amazing, amazing things to make sure it is handled well. And that is part of the emotional— like, emotional knowledge. The other thing that we've talked about this too, shifting from who screwed this up To where did the machine or where did the process break?

Yeah, how can we improve this?

Yes, uh, we want to fix a process flaw. It's not like if Bob dropped the ball, Bob may have dropped the ball, but why? Asking why, like how did this break, is different than you idiot.

And help me understand, right? Help me understand how this process did this. Help me understand where we— how we got here.

Correct.

Help. Help me understand sounds a lot better than, why the heck did you do this? Right? Just help me understand.

Or you idiot.

Or you idiot.

Because like the, the second piece that you asked there, you could almost interchange that with you idiot.

You can. Just add it to the end. Right? Why did this happen, you idiot? No, help me understand how this happened. Right.

How did this break? How did this break is a great way to ask it, because once again, you have now taken it off of them. It still may very well be their fault. Yeah, but you, you're approaching this from a neutral ground instead of a neener neener, I caught you. Yes, you are the— you are a boss. You're not a flock camera.

Correct. Change it from you to we. And let's work on this together, because if you're leading them, it's your fault too.

100%.

We've talked about it so many times. I feel like people are like, that's not me, that's my people. You are your people.

Yeah, I always so hate that. So how do we operationalize this? To me, it's directness is kindness.

Yeah.

Um, do you know who should be surprised in business? You. Your employees shouldn't.

Never.

Do you know who shouldn't be surprised? Your staff. If you're consistent and talk to them about something, they should be expecting it.

Yeah.

If the process broke, they should be expecting you to talk to them about it, not scream about it. They know the temperature of the room because they are the ones that set it. Now, you can come in and screw with the thermostat all you want to, but typically, if you do something to screw with the thermostat, They are still the ones that are going to set the temperature. And guess what? Typically, if you screw with the thermostat, they're going to set it to cold.

It's your job to maintain the thermostat.

Correct. Build those formal friction logs or process postmortems so that way employees can highlight operational problems without feeling like they are complaining or risking your wrath. The other thing is to protect the machine from the founder. Define the destination. not the clicks. If the founder's role is to state the end result, done should be done, not here's the step-by-step thing that I am forcing everyone to do. Let the people that are good at the thing do the thing.

Yeah.

Make sure they do it consistently. Make sure they have a process for it because you're going to let them build that runway. They're the ones that draft the SOPs. When it comes to editing podcasts, guess what? I am not the one that currently is drafting the SOPs. The people that do it They are the ones. We get the end result. I like how it looks. Now, do I check things and say, look, look for places to improve on?

Absolutely.

All of the time. But they know what they're doing because part of it is I am looking for that cross-departmental debt. I'm making sure that what they're doing isn't causing me or anyone else in the company any undue issues. The results— we want consistency Consistency and intentionality over fluff. Fluff cannot be maintained.

No.

Like, I've got some stuffed animals from when I was a kid. They are no longer fluffy.

No, I agree.

It's not, it's not the fluffy unicorn room.

No.

It's not tiptoeing around real work. It's being consistent and it's being intentional every single day. I want controlled intensity versus unpredictable whiplash all of the time. And this is where we talk about that, that, that, that passion with it. Transparent emotions without chaos is really the ways that you can show emotion. If you are upset, your employees know if you're upset.

Yeah.

It should be directed where the upsettedness should go. They're typically not it.

No.

The last thing, predictability, consistency, Drives execution. Have we said something along those lines? I believe we have. There's a reason why I've said this about 15 to 15 times today.

Consistency.

When leadership is predictable and intentional, staff spends zero energy managing your emotions. Yeah, imagine that. Because now they can spend all of that— like, they have 100% of their energy every day. If they are devoting 15% of it to What the hell's the boss like today? They're down to 85%. Yeah.

Managing your emotions is not a revenue-producing activity. It's not.

For them. You need— you managing your emotions is a really high revenue producer.

For you, yes.

It's a multiplier.

Yes.

Because it makes it so they don't have to.

Yeah. Which would you rather have them do? Doing the things that make your business successful or managing you?

Let's talk. Passion.

Oh, we talked about this. Yeah, let's do it.

I'm just passionate about perfection. Is that like ever a reason to blow a fuse?

No.

No?

No.

It's just poor self-control.

No, passion may explain the feeling. It does not excuse the behavior. It's not leadership when we do that, when we blow things around with people. When we blow up and call it passion, we're making the team absorb what they haven't learned to regulate. That's bad on the owner, bad on the leader. That's emotional outsourcing.

Here's the one that I'm really excited to talk about. How do you test for genuine emotional intelligence during an interview when candidates know all the right corporate buzzwords? We're gonna, we're gonna have to do something about interviews here soon. But I truly love this because if you hire the right leaders, you're in great shape.

Yes. So there are 4 that you can do, like, tell me about a time, So the 4 things you can say, like, in tell me about a time, tell me about a time your reaction made a situation harder. Tell me about feedback that was difficult for you to hear. Tell me about a time you had to repair trust, or tell me about a time you were wrong as a leader. So tell me about a time situationally. So those situational tell me a times can be really helpful in understanding where someone's going. Now, There are some people that are going to lie to you, whatever, but you're going to be able to tell in that pause and that reflection how they're doing. So I listen for 3 things and they're all 3 Ps. So did they pause? Did they perceive their own role? And did they proceed differently? So I don't need perfect leaders. I need leaders who can repair. And here's your red flag. If every story ends with them being right and everyone else being difficult, Or wrong, or they didn't understand me, or they didn't appreciate who I was. That's not confidence. That is a warning. Do not hire that person. They are not going to be coachable. They are going to be a brilliant jerk in your organization if they're even qualified to do the work that they say they can. Don't do it. So I'd say, yeah, you just ask about times that they've had a situation that you've made harder, difficult to hear feedback. Tell me about something that was difficult to hear. And they may say, the first time I ever had a job, I was put on a performance I had this performance improvement plan and this is what happened. And it really hurt my feelings because I thought I was doing great. Great. That's what you want to hear people talk about. Tell me about something that you did where you had to repair trust. But if they're like, I've never had to repair trust because everyone trusts me implicitly, you're like, no, they don't. You don't say that. You go, okay. You just take notes.

You're like, not convinced. Did you sell used cars before? Yeah.

I mean, what do you think?

To me, it's ask for concrete failure stories. And watch their attribution.

Yes.

If they blame their previous team, boss, or market for every issue, if they like— I have no problem saying like, this environment was not the right environment for me. But if there was a bunch of like, if everything was an issue from someone in the past.

Yes.

Guess what? They lack the self-awareness, you know? And what's funny about this is the lack of bad things I— once again, The Office was so brilliant, and it made it so— like, when Michael Scott was interviewing for the job, and he's like— they're like, tell me 3 good things about you. And he's like, well, why don't you ask me about 3 bad things about me? He's like, okay, start with those. And he's like, I care too much, I try too hard, and people meet— and it's like, dude, late, late.

Well, it's just like dating too. If like you're 100% on a first date, And somebody tells you all of the terrible things that all of their exes did and why they were brilliant, you're like, we're not getting to date 2.

I had had that in multiple cases years ago where I was like, yep, nope. Um, every single one of your exes was psychotic.

Every one of them, huh?

Remember what I said before about if you're like, if you're looking around the room for the jerk and you don't see the jerk, it's probably you. Yeah. What about the— can it, can a transparent Can transparent real-time data act as a buffer against low EQ outbursts?

It can, but it's only if the leader lets the data interrupt their story. I mean, reactive leaders create stories fast. They don't care. They're lazy. No one's paying attention. This always happens. I mean, data can slow that down. It gives the team something objective to look at together, but it doesn't create emotional intelligence.

No, definitely doesn't. I mean, to me, If the operation, the base operational metrics are visible to everyone, there's no room for mood management here. There's no need for it.

No, and leaders, those types of leaders can weaponize those numbers anyway.

Yeah, for me, if the data's out there and the data's right and it's good and we're close to our goals, shut up. We're going to just handle the problem. Let's fix this problem so we can move forward. So for me, key takeaways from the day. 15-second circuit breaker. Pause. I'm going to do this the best way I can. Pause for 15 seconds and consult your data before responding. Never write a policy or send a reprimand while angry. How was that? Was that—

That was good. I'd say it a little bit more directly with like, never write a policy or send a reprimand while angry. But that was a very peaceful way to say it.

I just wanted to do it in a calm, I appreciate that.

So I would say, you know, let's run that upward feedback audit. So we are going to ask our direct reports, what is one thing I do under stress that makes your job harder? And then we're going to listen for the answer without defending ourselves.

Yep. Respect your own processes. If you want to make a change in workflow because of a mistake, great. Document the change in the library instead of just yelling everyone on the floor, hey guys, we're doing it this way now.

Yeah, I'd say we separate identity from performance. We frame corrections around specific behaviors and process metrics. We do not do that around an employee's character or intelligence.

Truly love that. Additionally, give your team the gift of a predictable leader. Give the gift of kindness, give the gift of predictability. The less time that they spend trying to figure out, like, is it Jekyll or Hyde showing up today, the more time they spend growing your business. Question for you, can a leader with a low EQ ever successfully scale a business past 20 employees? Be it the business, could it be a middle manager, whatever.

I mean, possible, yes. Sustainable, no.

I totally— I feel like beyond 20 people, you, you can't micromanage through sheer force of will. Your emotional volatility will cause a turnover loop that just captures growth. It really will. What's the best way to deliver constructive feedback or bad news to an emotionally explosive boss, like leading up, so to say?

All right, we anchor in what happened, what the impact is, and what decision needs to be made. We don't lead with emotion, opinion, or long story. Here's what happened. Here's what it's causing. Here's what we need to do.

Yep. Anchor everything in data and SOPs, from my perspective. Don't say, I feel like this is There are no feelings. There are no feelings in this. The SOP target was X, current output is Y. Here are 2 operational items to fix the gap.

All right, question for you. Emotional intelligence, is it something that old-school hardened operator can actually learn, or is it an innate personality trait?

Old dogs can learn new tricks. Some of the most— some of the best leaders I have have been older, much, much older, and very high EQ. And once again, still commanded an incredible amount of respect for people.

Yeah, if you can tie it to value, you get a higher adoption curve.

100%. I mean, if they show that they truly care about you, it's an amazing thing, and it drives people to do so much better. It's just added work. That being said, we don't know what we're talking about next time, although I think we have some ideas, don't we?

Yes, we do.

We have a list.

We do.

And for every single one of you that has been commenting on posts, commenting on YouTube, we appreciate it because you are, you are helping guide us as leaders.

That's where these came from.

We're listening. Yes.

In the last couple episodes.

Yeah. As As leaders, we do listen. We like— we— and Chrissy didn't get mad at me this whole thing. Um, she did a little bit with the PIP one, but that was different.

That was past trauma. People do that wrong. I think we probably need another PIP episode sometime, but not anytime soon. I need to relax.

Yeah. Yes, for sure. That being said, do us a favor, go to businessfixpodcast.com. We would love to hear from you. As I said, That being said, leave stuff in the comments. We are like— we've had some reels going absolutely bananas. We thank you for that because it lets us know what you want to hear more of. That being said, do us a favor, take care of yourself. If you can, take care of someone else too. We will see you very, very soon.

Bye.

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