The Frontline Filter: Your Job Posting Dictates the Talent You Get

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If you have ever written, must be able to thrive in a fast-paced, high-pressure environment.

You're a jerk.

And we think we know why you're having a problem hiring people. Maybe just a tiny bit. Your job description sucks. That's what we're going to talk about this week. Stay tuned. She's the CEO.

He's the marketing and operations guy.

If it's broken, you need the Business Fix. Rockstar. Ninja. Wears many hats. Um, I have another list here. Uh, competitive salary with zero numbers next to it. Um, family-like atmosphere.

Oh no, it's my worst, right?

No, right? And you came through a family business, so you're like, this is exactly why you don't want to do this.

Exactly. You don't know what that means.

Like, other duties as assigned. Now, I, I—

we have to do that in HR.

You have to do that, but that shouldn't be the— like, you shouldn't have 4 things and then that.

That shouldn't be in the apply for section?

No, no, there's, there's a lot of things in here that do. My favorite is all the ones without salary numbers where I'm like, not even a range here.

I don't understand why nobody wants to apply for this job. Or we get so many people that expect to make 3 times what it is, right?

Because you put nothing there.

Yeah.

So yeah, like, if I'm applying for something, shooting high, baby.

Yeah, I am at the top of range. Like, oh, okay, of course you are.

I am at the top of your range. Like, I am at the top of my boss's range, my boss's boss's Yes, that's the number.

What would you like to make? $1 million.

Now, now, correct. You asked me what I'd like to make. I'm just being honest. Yeah, this is a topic that— and I mean, there's so many good things that, like, we talked about, like structured interviews, and we mentioned this in a previous episode, like, but the job posting is the thing out front, and like, it's the thing that everyone screws up. We're gonna help fix that.

Yeah, we all do it.

I, I surf them occasionally just to see what's there.

Yeah.

Um, and I'm looking all over the place, like other industries these jobs that I have zero— like dog groomer, whatever— just to see how it's done and what's there, because it's such a key part of this. Now, this, this is the thing that I think is going to be fun. We have the battle of HR versus marketing. Ding ding ding ding ding! I mean, yeah, this is where this episode I think is going to be.

Yeah, because job descriptions and postings are a lot of marketing. A lot of marketing.

Yeah, they have to, but they also have to be HR. Well, they do, because you can't be like, hey kids, come here in the white van with some candy and have fun.

Yeah, here's your bait and switch. No, can't do that. I wonder why people don't stick. It's expensive and we have to keep replacing them when they run out the door after 2 days.

Correct. Correct. So let's, as per our normal, let's have you focus on the HR side because that would be a bad idea for me.

Yeah.

Is, 'cause like mine would be filled with profanity and all the other stuff in the job description. So we'll have you do that.

Sure.

Once again, there's a give and take between HR and marketing on these.

Yes.

Like HR should write it, marketing should review it and touch it up, but then HR should review it yet again.

One more time just to be safe.

Just to make sure that someone like myself did not.

No, we can't say that.

And I realize for a lot of our listeners, they are— they could be in middle management someplace. Yeah, this still has an effect because this is something that you can still change. And the question that I have is, why are so many people so lazy when it comes to writing job descriptions? And why, like, why do they, like, go into AI, get the most generic template that they can find from Google and post it, hope for the best, and then say, Hey, no one wants to work anymore.

Yeah.

And I have to ask this question, and I know you can read this question and you're like, this is going to hurt. Why does HR have to suck all of the personality out of it?

They don't. They just sometimes do.

They just—

you're just— I think what you're saying is—

I've watched them. I've watched them do that before and it's like they're the joy suckers.

Why does it have to sound legal and lifeless? Yeah, well, because we, we treat it like paperwork. But I— here's where I'd like you to shift. If you're— if you are a middle manager or you're a business owner, you need to look at your job postings or job descriptions. Are they an underestimated leadership tool in business?

Oh my gosh, yes, they really are.

Because the job posting or the job description, depending on what you're looking at, is really the first leadership promise you make to a potential employee. And if that promise is vague or worse, if it's exaggerated, we should not be shocked when the person who shows up is confused, misaligned, or gone in 90 days. Okay? Because we did it wrong.

So— If I had a nickel for every time I've had that.

Yeah. So, I mean, for me, strong job posting has to do 3 things. It has to tell the reality, it has to define the results, and it has to show the roadmap. So we're working with ours today.

Pirate.

Pirate. Pirate day. Which, you know, sometimes you feel like that when you're doing a job posting, like all things. So reality means tell the truth about the seat. Okay? Do not lie. Do not exaggerate. Results means define what success actually looks like for the job. And then roadmap means help the candidate see how this role fits into the company's future and their own future. Because if you can't explain the role clearly before someone applies, you probably don't understand the role well enough to manage it after they're hired. Ouch. That's— yeah, but it's true.

It's true.

It's an ouch, but it's a wow, maybe I should think about this.

And what I— I love how you're approaching this because those 3 Rs are something even like I surfed this morning some job listings just to prepare for today.

Yeah.

And in that, like each one of them was missing this.

Yeah. So let me go back to answering the question because I would like to formally defend HR for a moment. As the CEO of an HR company, I'd like to formally defend them. Okay, we do not wake up in the morning thinking, "How can I make this job posting sound like it was written by a beige filing cabinet?" We don't. We do not do that. But—

You don't have to try, it just comes naturally?

Stop it. That's not true. Don't be a jerk.

Sorry. I'll be quiet.

No, it's not wrong. I mean, here, I do think that job descriptions get boring because leaders often don't know what they actually want.

Yes.

So they hand it to HR and they say, you know, can you make this compliant? And HR says, sure. And they're doing it because HR is trying to keep everyone out of court. All right. So oftentimes when you're like, it feels like there's a lot of legalese in our job descriptions, there's probably a reason for that. There might be some past trauma. I mean, but you're— so HR is generally trying to keep people out of court. At the same time, there's laziness that sometimes comes from an organization. You know, just grab something from Google.

'Cause it's safe.

Let ChatGPT do it. I mean, and then fear says, you know, put every possible duty in the job description so they, like, we know we're covered. I mean, there's a reason why we say other duties as assigned because often people are like, well, it's not in my job description. You're like, well, yes it is.

'Cause I saw one earlier today that I know was written by HR. It was like 25 lines and it was for a $25,000 a year job. There was 25 lines of tasks and I'm like, yeah, no.

No one wants this. There's also confusion. And then confusion when HR posts, it's like, you know, we don't really know what this person's going to own, so we're just going to list everything, which is your— and that's how you end up with a blanket statement. I don't know that you've talked about it, but I know it's in our net. Like we talk about the Frankenjob.

Yep.

Like it's just, you know, we need a rockstar ninja who can manage sales, marketing, operations, customer service, payroll, light graphic design, emotional support, maybe unload a truck if needed. That's not a job posting. That's a cry for help.

Right?

So this is where R matters, the first R, reality.

I wouldn't apply for that.

I wouldn't apply for that either. That sounds like an awful job. It sounds like you're working for some awful humans. So R is reality. We tell the truth. If the job is repetitive, say it. It's okay.

That's my dream.

If the job requires detail, say it. If the job involves a lot of client handholding, please say it. And if the company's growing and the systems are still being built, you can say that too. Don't say, "I need you to be nimble in a fast-paced environment." You can say, "You know, we are a startup." If you're a startup, admit you're a startup. It's okay. Trust me, there are a million people that wanna work for startups. There are also a million people who don't. So be honest about it. The right person is never gonna be scared off by reality. The right person is going to be attracted by honesty. And the wrong person, great. They may self-select out. And that's a gift. That is not a failed posting. That's the filter working. So then the second R—

Can I—

Yeah, go ahead.

What I want to talk about with that, to me, this is marketing 100%.

Yes.

Because everyone feels like they need the vanity metrics. Like 2,000 people saw the job. I don't care if 2 million people saw the job. I want the one right person to see the job.

I want the one person.

You don't need 2 million people to see it. You need one good person.

If you have 200 people apply for a position and only 20 are qualified, I don't know that you've written their posting the right way. Just maybe. Okay? So.

It's not the market.

No. So that's reality. Shall we go to results?

Let's, let's get results. Let's get, let's get some results.

All right. A job posting should not just say you'll assist with administrative tasks. Right? That means nothing. What does success look like? Define it. What should be done by Friday? What does a strong week look like? What does this role protect, produce, or improve? Like, give some context. Give what are the results of this position? And then the third is roadmap. And people want to know where this role can go. Now, they don't need to know that, like, if they do everything right, that maybe someday they'll be CEO. That's not what they just need to know. Like, not everyone wants a promotion into management, and not every role has to become something wildly different, but people do want to understand the purpose. They want to know, why does it matter? And how does this role connect commission— to the mission? And how can I grow here? Is it possible to grow here, or is this the job? It's always going to be the job. There are some people that that's fine with them. Be honest with it. Again, your target market. So no, Josh, HR does not have to suck the personality out of every job posting, but leaders do have to give HR something real to work with. And sometimes when they don't give HR something real to work with, that's when they get the beige filing cabinet job description or job posting.

I've seen it happen.

Yeah, because I mean—

100%.

And if your job posting sounds like everyone else's, don't be surprised when you attract people who don't understand what makes you different.

It's, it's once again, we've done the same thing the same time the same way, and we expect different results. Yes, we've talked about like early stage anxiety for some people, like, and the ambiguous role, the, hey, I need the, I need a Swiss Army knife. Yeah, like, how does a vague job description and job posting especially set up a new hire to fail? And like we've talked about psychological safety a lot and making sure that workers feel valued and good. How does that vague description set them up for failure from day one?

Well, it creates anxiety before they even start because the candidate's gonna apply for the job and they think you described it the way that it is. And then they show up and they realize the actual role is completely different. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah, exactly. No, no, no, no. So now from day one, when they walk in, they are trying to figure out what is real. And so this is really where, you know, let's go back to reality, results, and roadmap. Okay, so reality protects trust. If you tell me that this is a structured administrative role and then I walk in and it's actually a high-pressure sales support role, trust is broken immediately. Chances are I've walked out the door. I'm not doing administrative tasks, I'm doing sales. Bye-bye. Thank you.

I won't be back after lunch.

No. And then results. So results protect confidence. So again, if I don't know what success looks like and I spend all day guessing, I'm asking myself, am I doing enough? Am I doing the right things? Am I missing something that everyone else knows? That kind of uncertainty exhausts people. Yeah. And they may stay for a couple of days, but they're not going to be here long term. They have already posted their resume back into the portal.

Right.

Congratulations. They never pulled off ZipRecruiter. They are still there. Right.

They didn't pull down the Open to Work off of the LinkedIn thing.

No. And then roadmap protects commitment. So if I can't see how my work matters, I don't attach to the mission and I become task-focused instead of purpose-connected. And I think this is where leaders, we create the turnover that we complain about and we accidentally create it. We don't do it intentionally. So we just, we say that, you know, people don't wanna work anymore, but really they just don't wanna be dropped into chaos and then blamed for not magically understanding it. So a clear job posting's not just a recruiting tool, it's the first step of onboarding and it sets expectations before that person person ever sits down at a desk or ever walks into your door as an employee. And if we oversell or worse underdefine or even worse hide the messy parts of what a job is, we're not being strategic. We're creating a trust problem because people can handle hard jobs.

Yep.

They have a much harder time handling surprise jobs.

Yep.

People don't leave because a job is hard. They leave because the job is not the job you promised. Can I say that again?

Please.

People leave because the job is not the job you promised.

It's— it— this comes back to 100%. You know, you know what saying I'm going to use?

Yes.

If I'm walking into a shitstorm, I want to know which way the wind's blowing.

Yes.

If they walk into your office and they have their umbrella pointed to the west and you started shitstorming from the east, they're gone. They're gone. No one wants to be covered Covered in poop.

No, no. And you may be, well, I think they say, I mean, like our average turnover time is 18 months. You know, that's telling you something.

Right, right, right.

I mean, we talked about anomaly versus pattern a couple episodes ago. Like, what is the pattern? 100%. Yeah.

From a compliance and the visionary standpoint, like how does a clear job description serve as that baseline for the coach, correct, or cut framework that we've talked about?

Yeah, I think it's where, you know, This is where we can be really practical in how we have our job descriptions.

So— HR practical?

I know, it's amazing. We're just— yeah, that's what we are. If we never clearly define the role or the standards or the outcomes, it becomes really difficult later to say you're not meeting expectations.

Yeah.

So because the employee can fairly ask, what expectations? Because you never gave them to me. Right. So I think organizations can feel frustrated because the employee's not doing the thing the leader had in their head. But if the thing was never in the job description, it was never in the onboarding, never in the training, we talked about last episode, never clearly communicated, that's not a performance issue, that's a leadership clarity issue. So when we talk about coach, correct, or cut, the job description helps us know where we are, right? If someone lacks skill or understanding, we coach. If someone knows the expectations, not meeting consistently, we correct. If someone's been coached, corrected, supported, still not willing to align, then we may have to cut. But the whole process depends on having that clear baseline. So let's go back. Back to what the baseline should be with the 3 Rs, right? Because the baseline should include the reality of the role, the results expected, and the roadmap for how the seat contributes to the business. And then from a compliance standpoint, that protects the company because the decisions are tied to documented expectations. They're not tied to mood or favoritism. They're actually tied to like what they should be, what the standards are of expectations.

There's something written down.

Yeah, not vague frustration. It's actual documentation. So from that leadership employee because they know where they stand. And from a CEO standpoint, it protects the culture because everyone sees that standards are clear, consistent, and fair. And that's what I always want leaders to understand, that documentation isn't cold. Documentation is clarity. We talk about the 3 C's of leadership, clarity, consistency, and care. It's really how we keep our conversations from becoming personal. So a clear job description makes our sweaty 10-minute conversations feel less sweaty. Because we're not inventing expectations in the moment. We're already pointing back to what was already defined. And if it was never defined, it can never be fairly enforced.

Your culture isn't what's printed on a poster in your lobby. It's what your team does when you aren't in the room.

And for larger organizations, that culture is usually the first thing to fracture during high growth. If your mission statement feels like a a ghost town, you have a culture problem.

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It's essentially, I've seen this so many times where you, not seen, but figuratively, put a blindfold on someone.

Spun them around.

Spun them around, hand them a ball.

Yep.

They don't know what it is. And you tell them to score. Yes.

Is that a soccer ball?

Is that a baseball?

I'm still blindfolded.

Is that, is that a volleyball? Home run, touchdown? What am I What am I going for here?

EA Sports.

Right, right. I've seen it so many times. Yeah, it's— it just happens that way for sure. Yeah, I get it.

So how do we turn a boring HR document into a tool that actually attracts the right tier of players and acts as a good filter for the business? Pizza. That is bullshit. Answer the question.

Yes. So no, to me, like, first off, job postings are ads. This is an advertisement, people.

It is.

If you're marketing the part department hasn't put their eyes on it. And this is the other thing that I'm going to say, is just because you think you have a flair for it, you're not marketing.

No.

I know so many people that they, they're like, I'm creative and I know what people want.

No, I'm getting ready to send a job posting to marketing to rewrite.

Correct.

Because we need it, right?

It's, it's an ad. Yeah, it shouldn't read like a legal brief. Now It does have to read— it does have to have a legal briefing in it.

Yes. Your job description, your offer letter, those can read a little bit more like a legal brief. But your job posting, you want people to freaking apply, right?

You want people to like this. Yes. Now, we don't want everyone to like this. We want the people that we actually want to like this. And this is why you get marketing involved, because otherwise I have seen so many times where HR fluffs it for HR.

Mm-hmm.

And I'm like, you're looking for an active, on-the-road salesperson here.

Yeah, every salesperson is going to read this and be like, no, if a posting is not getting any traction and it's been posted for more than a week, you've written it wrong.

Correct.

I know that hurts because there are times where we get them. We're like, why isn't anybody? Oh, we did it wrong. Yeah. And it's okay.

It's the how you do it correctly. Yes. Is the WIFM.

Oh, I like WIFM.

What's in it for me? Damn it. Yes. I added the D at the end there. To me. You have to show them what they get. Part of that is money.

Yes. Yes.

You have to show them. Don't promise them personal velocity or future autonomy because they don't care.

Posting a job— we talk about it with leadership training— posting a job without the salary or the hourly rate is irresponsible. Impossible. It is stupid. It's just, to me, it's stupid. Why? You're flushing money down the toilet if you're paying for that ad or paying for that spot.

Yeah, because like, like, you're gonna get people at the high end, you're going to be people at the low end that are just way out of the league.

We have an amazing, overly qualified candidate. Why do they want $120,000 for this $65,000 position? Because you didn't post how much it was, right?

Right. I, I see it all the time. The other thing is too is have the other things in there. I always love it when I see, we have a great culture. Like, everyone thinks they have a great culture. At least everyone in HR thinks they have a great culture. At least everyone in HR was told by the CEO that they have a great— and they have to post it in their job, and they have to post it in their job posting. To me, unless you can give great examples of things that are there, you— like, those are the things that you can show people that you have. Now, once again, You cannot change your culture today to make your job posting tomorrow. You have to start working on your culture last week in order to make the job posting in 6 months. That's how you're going to help people. With this, I'm stealing your line. Clarity is kind. Sell, don't oversell. Yeah, you have to market the opportunity, but don't lie about the day-to-day reality of a seat just to get the body in the door.

Did you just use the first R?

I did.

Good job.

I did. Thank you.

Hey, I want to be coachable.

Once again, to me, like, if it's a highly repetitive role, someone wants that role.

They do.

There are people that want to come in and do the autopilot and they want to get really good at something so they can just do the thing.

That's great.

This is the thing. Not everyone is like you.

You don't want to hire them if they are correct.

Oh, gosh, I do not want to hire another me. That would be bloody. Exactly.

Trust me, I'm in the same. Someone walks in and they're like, "I think we're wired the same." I'm like, "Oh, this is going to be bad." Right.

I have a lot of the same wiring as some people. Unfortunately, most of the insulation isn't on the wiring anymore. That's part of the problem. But with that, to me, you never want to lie about it, but you do make sure that you are highlighting the good pieces of it and highlighting the things that someone will want. No one wants a high-pressure, fast-paced environment. If they do, they're lying because—

Yeah, I mean, unless they're in like, they're day trading. I mean, I guess there's like specific things, but no.

But to me, and the thing is, is those people don't need that environment. Those people will just work that way. Yeah. If someone needs a repetitive thing, they need the repetitive thing. If someone needs— like, there's certain needs, and figuring those out, that's what you have to talk about. What does the job actually do? What personality is it for? And here's why you have to have marketing in, because marketing typically has a number of personalities besides a beige filing cabinet. Yeah, there, there's the difference we got to talk about. If it's highly repetitive, it's detail-heavy, if it's high routine, describe it exactly as that. Um, the, the— don't dress up a basic administrative thing as, or a compliance thing— I always like those— as dynamic, fast-paced, strategic sandbox. I've seen it. No, I've seen it. Uh, if you oversell that role, you have, you have set yourself up and that person up for failure. And I say both of you. Yeah, because the problem is, is that person leaves. And when I have always taken it upon— if, if someone leaves or if I have to fire someone, I have failed as the leader.

And turnover is really expensive. I think sometimes we think like, oh, well, you know, they only were here for 10 days, but we figured it out. And it's like, no, even to hire somebody for that long, it's hugely expensive from a time cost perspective.

Yes.

Forget about opportunity cost in time.

There's a lot of times where I feel like I work for free, but I don't. Yes. At least I don't want to. And when you do stuff stuff like that, it's huge.

It—

to me, it's, it's just one of those things that, like, you have to set those expectations right. Fine. You had— and this is the other reason too, is when you talk in these big fluffy general terms, you get the wrong person in the wrong job, and that's just where it's going to go. The other thing that I want to talk about is we talked before about A, B, and C players, and I am really going to go back into Architects, builders, and contributors.

Correct.

Nice. Don't— like, once again, if you're— you don't want to hire all A players. We've talked about this. A does not necessarily mean they're a home run hitter all the time. No, A is the architect. That, like, if you want someone that's going to be autonomous and build stuff in your company, high— like, high complexity, high ambiguity, then market it to A players. Don't be like, we have a warm, steady, safe environment. No, that's not what they want. No, they want thrills. Yes, they're going like they're going to work and then they're going to go skydiving on the weekend. Make sure the job is for that. Same thing for the B players, the builders. They're the engine room. They're the stabilizing backbone of the business. Make sure you write it and market it to them. They're going to take what what the A-level people wrote, and they're gonna turn it into real predictable, repeatable operational results. Focus the copy on execution, project management, and daily operational leadership. These are the people that are going to adapt to fix things. They aren't the creative builders, they're the fixers. Yes. I always like make the example of they're the ones that are walking behind the A players, picking up the mess and putting the pieces, the A players are kind of the artists that are getting paint everywhere, and the C players, Or the B players are the ones that are kind of cleaning that up and making sure it fixes and looks right. And they have the adaptability to do that. Make sure you market to those people. Like I said, that operational leadership, those are the things that you need to look at with that. The C players, they are the make it, make it work day in and day out. They are the baseline repeatable work. If this is a factory job, don't say high-pressure, fast-paced environment.

Always changing. No, it's not.

Always changing, right? Because every single person that you want on that assembly line is like, nope, I want the hell out of here. That sounds like a night—

and, and if it sounds like a nightmare to them, they're not going to apply for it. Correct.

Because you wrote the wrong job description. The, the— to touch on something you talked about, the Part B that I've got to this is job description is an operational blueprint. This is the operation side. You're going to get— you're going to put vague briefs You can get vague results. If you write, "Must have good communication skills," you can't measure that on a dashboard.

No, and to be perfectly honest, people that have terrible communication skills always think they're good communicators. So stop. Stop. I mean, I know we have some of it in our job descriptions too. Effective communicator. And they're like, "I think I am." We will assess that in the screening if you can be an effective communicator or not.

The other thing is too, is I communicate differently in different formats. I don't shut up. My emails are also typically 2 sentences. There's a big difference in how I communicate via those 2 things. The other thing is instead of write it like the task versus deliverable is another example I like to give.

Oh yeah.

Instead of writing must handle customer inquiries, write responsible for resolving tier 1 support Support tickets. Yes, there you go. That's actually what the person's doing.

Yes, not like, hey, talk to people, just do the things, just do the things.

Um, and these are the things where I just get so, so, so upset about it because it's, it's written with fluff. Write it specifically. Are you going to get fewer eyeballs on the ad?

Probably. Yeah.

Are you going to get the eyeballs that you want?

Yes.

This is one of those things where once again And marketing should, should understand the difference between vanity metrics and getting the right people in the door. If when it comes to getting clients, I don't want 10,000 eyeballs. No. I want 10 that are gonna show up with checkbooks. When it comes to hiring, I don't wanna sift through 250 resumes. I wanna sift through 20 that are spectacular. Yeah. That's what I wanna do.

I want good options.

I want good options. Don't tell me, well, we only got 10 resumes.

Great.

Are they all amazing? Do they all fit the job?

Yeah. We got 10 qualified candidates. That's what I want. I want qualified applicants.

I don't need to read 200 resumes to do that.

No, I don't want to.

Frankenjob trap. These I'm looking forward to going back and forth on.

Yeah.

Um, what happens when we try and find the— and I know small businesses deal with this a lot, and I know, yeah, I, I've been in larger businesses where they've got a niche area and they're like, hey, we're looking for that one magical person that's sales, marketing, operations, and, and, uh, visionary. Um, how does How does that work?

Sounds like a disaster.

Correct. Like to me, what I have found is that is the number one way to say you haven't mapped your workflows and you don't know what the hell you're hiring for.

Yeah, I think you're exactly right.

When you're looking for a hero to save you from the lack of documented systems.

Yeah. So I know that to me, the Frankenjob tells me that the company hasn't decided what it actually needs. No. They want one person to be all of the things.

Great.

So we're hiring a unicorn. We're hiring a unicorn.

Great.

Can't wait. So, and there are some out there.

You better start throwing pennies in fountains.

Yeah, good luck. So from a CEO seat, I think the Frankenjob usually means the leader's trying to solve 5 different problems with 1 hire, but people are not organizational duct tape. So the better question is, is what is the real seat? And what problem are you trying to solve first? Because you may be able, and you know, a small business owner Sometimes we don't have a choice. We've got to find— we need a utility in Vjeldur. We really do. But, you know, but what are the priorities? What is— what are the— out of the 50 things that you need, what are the 5 that you can't live without? Because range is okay. People can have range. But no one should be hired into chaos disguised as opportunity.

I'll talk about it from the aspect of a Swiss Army knife. If you have a Swiss Army knife, you've got tons of tools.

It's amazing, right?

If you pull the scissors out of your Swiss Army knife and try and sew, like, make clothes with that. No, right? You can.

It's going to take a really long time.

And it's not going to— it's not going to be good.

Do it. It won't be pretty.

Same thing. You're going to cut your steak with a knife out of your— like, with a pocket knife?

No.

No. Are you going to chop onions with it? Probably not. Can you when you're out in the wild?

Yes.

It's worth it. You're like, hey, I got nothing else to do. There's no phone reception here, so I'm not going to scroll Instagram. You're in good shape. Use the Swiss Army knife. But realize that if you market this to everyone, you're going to get the Swiss Army knife who's not good at the one thing that you probably really, really need.

So take— slow down long enough to figure out what you need first.

Mm-hmm.

100%. Give me the top 3 things you really need to solve with this job. And that's an HR, if they're good HR, they should be asking that question, not just like, well, tell me what you want 'em to do. No, no, no, no, no. Tell me what you need them to do. What are the 3 things you absolutely need this person to do? And that's what we're gonna focus on because that's really what we need to hire for.

It's funny. This goes well into my next point. When you're looking for people, do you look at people that already have jobs? Yeah. To me, like the people, like if you're looking for A-players.

Yeah.

They're not looking for a checklist of duties.

No.

Go out and approach them. Yeah.

Because I mean, strong candidates are not usually desperate. They're discerning.

Yeah. And they can be.

And the best people are often already employed. And that's okay. They're not scrolling job boards thinking, I hope someone offers me a vague job with unclear responsibilities so I can just perform. It's not, I can't wait. Like, that's not what they're doing.

I can't wait to jump.

Can't wait to not know what I'm doing in this organization and maybe get paid like a little bit more. I mean, or maybe not. Maybe I'm just, I'm going to make a lateral for different culture that I really don't understand.

They don't do that. I know nothing about, like—

Exactly.

Like that, it's literally sitting in the frying pan and going, huh, I wonder what's in the fire.

I mean, passive candidates are looking for a reason to move. And that's really where that roadmap matters because you have to show them what they can build, learn, and improve, what they can potentially influence, what they can own. Show them why that role is worth the disruption of leaving something familiar because you're asking them to leave something familiar. And I would say, I will say, some of the time where I am usually most timid in trying to figure out if someone is in a position and I know I'm going to rip them from that and put them somewhere else, I better freaking know how they're gonna fit and how it's gonna work. Because to move someone that way, to be that disruptive, I just, for me, I just take it personally if they don't do well in our environment. I mean, and here's the other thing I would say too, you have to be really honest with those people. You do not oversell chaos as opportunity. We don't call burnout growth. We don't call lack of structure entrepreneurial freedom. I mean, like, we do— like, that's just—

This is not going to be the buzzword episode.

No, but it kind of— like, that's just like when I think about those jobs when people are like, we have an entrepreneurial— we have entrepreneurial freedom. I'm like, that for someone who really wants to be steady in a job, that doesn't feel good. So, you know, good candidates are not looking for mystery. They're not looking for like, I want to solve this. Like, they're not looking for that. They're not Scooby-Doo. All right. They are looking for meaningful.

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That's clarityhr.com. Simple, clear, and here to help.

I'll give you a few seconds to go to the website while we get ready to get back to the show. Just found another one here. Looking for self-starters with a thick skin.

No. Oh my gosh, no. You know what that tells me? You're a jerk. Yeah, no, I want self-sourced. I want people who will do the work while I yell at them.

No, correct. Because— and because I'm going to yell at them because I haven't given them the right tools or the right direction or the right goalpost because they want to be inspired. This.

Congratulations. That person's an a-hole. Yeah. You don't want to work for them.

No, no. Here's, here's one that's interesting is many businesses are scaling.

Yeah.

The job description at the $1 million mark, does that work at the $5 million mark?

Hmm.

To me, no. Because here's the big thing. As your business grows, as your department grows, the roles have to shift from generalist to specialist.

Yeah.

And it's something that I pitch to people all the time in the podcasting side. I say, they're like, well, I've got an editor. I'm like, great. Do you want someone that specializes in editing? Or do you want someone that specializes in editing? Do you want someone else that specializes in production? And do you want someone else that specializes in social media?

Yeah. I want all of them.

Right.

Great.

We can bring that.

We can bring that.

But you have And that's because we've grown to a point that we can fit in for that. It's once again, it's if you don't audit that job description, your early hires are going to end up with Frankenjobs.

Yep.

And they're going to like—

They're going to be burned out.

Toast.

Because they're carrying invisible work. And I think that's where resentment starts because the employees say, you know, this is not what I was hired to do. All right. And you're like, the leader's like, but this is what we need now. No. And so they both can be true. This isn't what I was hired to do and this is what we need now. But that's why roles need to be revisited intentionally. I mean, scaling requires role clarity, not once, repeatability over and over and over again.

Have we mentioned that before?

We have. Because here's the thing, if the business has evolved, but the job description didn't, don't be shocked when those employees feel stretched sideways and they leave.

Yeah, 'cause they're now doing 4 jobs.

They're now doing 4 jobs. And you're like, oh, well, I told you you needed to be flexible. This is in your other duties as assigned. No, this is your fast-paced environment where you need to have a thick skin. No.

Chrissy Myers is going to walk out of the studio angry.

Well, I mean, I just, this is one of those opportunities where we, as business leaders, we do it wrong so often. And then we blame everybody else for it. And it's like, no, no, no, this is something we have to own. And I will own it. I have given crappy job descriptions. I have given crappy job postings.

And you know why we do it?

Why, Josh?

Because we're in a hurry.

That's exactly right.

It's 100%. We're like, I need someone 20 minutes ago.

So here's ChatGPT. They're going to build this prompt and it's just going to work. And it's like, no, right?

And you spend 6 months looking for someone instead of 6 weeks.

Yes, because you could have spent an extra 6 minutes just doing it right the first time.

A lot of 6s there.

Slow down. Yeah, it gets scary. Takeaway: tell the truth about the seat. Yep. The right person needs the clear picture.

Yeah, love it. To me, run a friction log on the current job descriptions. If a manager is babysitting, there's a gap. The job description's broken.

Yeah, I agree. Define the win before you hire.

Oh, gosh, yes.

So before you're posting the job, write down what a successful first 90 days looks like. If you can't define the win, you're not ready to recruit. No. And if you can't define what success is, you're just hiring for hope. And we've already talked, hope is not a strategy. Especially when you're hiring.

Correct. Write it for one person. Don't write to the masses. You're not going for vanity metrics here. Write it for your specific ideal candidate. Other people— trust us. Yes. Other people will apply. Lots of other people will apply.

And you're going to swipe the other direction. Correct.

You're going to swipe left or whatever it is there. Directness is kindness. They will figure it out. Yeah.

And revisit the role as the business grows. A job description should not be fossilized. Right, we're going to review as the company scales so people are not quietly buried under the work that no longer fits.

I love that. And define done in the posting. What, like, the job description tells them exactly what a successful week looks like.

That's good.

Uh, should salary ranges always be posted on job description, or does it hurt the negotiation?

Like, post the freaking range. If you do nothing else with this episode, people, I want you to hear me right now. Adults are applying for jobs, not entering a game show. All right, this is not Let's Make a Deal. All right, if the compensation is not aligned, let everyone save time and dignity, right?

Yeah, 100%. I've applied for high-level management jobs And the one they said, this is great, we'd love to offer that. Then this was 7, 8 years ago. They offered me, it was $38,000 a year. I was like, what?

Senior level manager and I'm making a little bit above minimum wage. Thank you so much.

Yeah, it's to me, just with that, it's a no-brainer. And what I hate about it, is you know what range you need to be in for this to be profitable.

Exactly.

You can negotiate when you get in the room.

And if you don't know, then you need to go back to the drawing board because transparency in telling people what the range is is not a negotiation weakness. It's a signal of respect to the person that's going to be applying for the job.

Yep. Unlimited PTO, cultural builder or red flag? I think you know where I stand.

I do know where you stand. I will say, I think it depends on whether the culture can actually support it. So unlimited PTO can be wonderful. Yep. When expectations are clear and leaders model rest, right? If nobody takes time off because they're scared of looking lazy, that is not unlimited PTO.

That's hostage.

It's unlimited guilt. Yeah.

That's hostage situation. It is.

So, I mean, if you're going to advertise it or you're going to be an organization that you better freaking figure out how it works before you even start rolling it out to your team.

It's interesting for me because we have deadlines, we have work projects. So it's easy. It's super easy for me. Like, I'm not a big fan of unlimited PTO.

No, I'm not really. I mean, I get why people want to do it, but it's not a preference that I ever say.

My people have it. Because guess what? Get your stuff done. I don't care if it's done. I don't care if you take 4 days off.

No. Here's the other thing I will say too. If we're going to talk about unlimited PTO, I think you should also talk about the requirement that we make people take PTO. That's something else to think about, you know, in, in the hiring. Yes, talk about it.

What's the biggest red flag phrase that you've seen or hear Must thrive in a fast-paced environment.

It's always mine. Family.

We're like family.

That one, yes. I just, I don't even want to, like, that's probably mine, but I don't know about it.

You came up through your family's business, so it's, it's a different— if it— I, I knew you have a different perspective possibly on it.

I don't, I don't want my job to feel like Thanksgiving.

No, but that's it. That's what I have found about it every single time. I truly love my family. Like 40 hours a week with them would— there would be blood.

Well, I mean, you just said we're a family. What does that mean? Because for some people, family means a high level of dysfunction. Correct. You're like, I'm not doing that. Right.

It means you're hostage.

Yeah. Are we the Waltons or are we the Bundys? Like I just— depending on what you want.

Which Bundys?

Exactly.

There's a lot of different Bundys too.

There's a lot of them.

There's Ted Bundy.

There's a— Right. So it's like, which ones are we?

Right. No, the family one. Any time that I have, like, worked for a company that, like, we treat everyone like family, it has been the most toxic, abusive places that I have ever worked in.

Same. When I see that in a posting, I go, no, we make sound effects.

Chrissy Myers makes a noise like a squeaky door being closed on that opportunity.

Exactly right.

That's exactly what that is.

Don't— yeah, slam it and run.

Uh, truly, we would love to hear what your red flags are in a job description. Yeah, that, that to me would be so interesting.

Copy paste, tag us.

Yeah, copy paste, tag us, put it in comments. Like, once again, submit it on the website. We would love to hear this Like, this is— I think this is going to be a fun one. Oh, yeah, for sure. We've got a lot more, a lot more, a lot more episodes. Yeah, we've got a lot more episodes. We've got a lot more great subjects coming your way. Make sure that you have liked us, subscribe to us, and do us a favor. I'm going to call this out again. If you work someplace, share this with your boss. We dare you.

Yeah, please. If they call us angry, it's okay.

Right. We're looking forward to that. We'll have that conversation with you and/or for you. We're really looking forward to that. That all being said, do us a favor, take care of yourself. If you can, take care of someone else too. We will see you very, very soon.

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