Can You Make Money Doing What You Love? | Kim Slade

You know, I found out pretty quick that teaching companies and teams like how to make social media content, uh, it wasn't really— it's not really my— doesn't really feel like my main thing. My main thing has always been creating experiences in real life for people. And so I've done that a lot, uh, and, and that's always been the thing that I've wanted to be doing more than the video training. But the video training always, uh, it seemed to deliver more cash flow easier.

Welcome to another episode of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host Christian Brim. Special shout out to our one listener in Loganville, Georgia. No idea where that is, but thank you for listening. Joining me today, Kim Slade of Unlost. Kim, welcome to the show.

How you doing, Christian? Thanks for having me on.

Absolutely. I can tell by your peculiar accent that you might not live in the United States. So where do you hail?

I am in Brighton, England at the moment. And it is, uh, I'm just about on the coast, about an hour south of London, for those who don't know where Brighton is.

And are you from England? Like, I am, yeah.

I'm originally from a little, um, a smaller town called Bognor Regis, with a funny name. Um, and it's got a bit of a reputation— Bognor Regis got a bit of a reputation in England as being a bit of a dump. Let's say.

Um, was that your, was that your experience?

Uh, yes. Yeah, I moved out.

You can confirm?

I can confirm. It's one of those seaside towns that used to be home to amazing venues where Rolling Stones would play and the Beatles and the happening in the '60s and '70s, and then it didn't get a new lick of paint since then, so it's just crumbled. And like, you know, there's a bunch of these seaside towns in the UK which have ended up kind of deteriorating and being a bit of a, yeah, being a bit of a shame really. But lovely people, but just not much investment in stuff, shall we say.

Well, if Trump can turn Palestine into a resort, then surely he can do something with the UK resorts.

I mean, I mean, that's, I mean, that's a, that's a whole different ball game, I guess. It's not, it's not, yeah, I mean, thankfully it's not as bad as some of the places in the Middle East right now, but I, I mean, maybe that conversation is a different podcast.

So what, okay, that is, I, I've, I've never been, I've only been to London and the suburbs, so I've never been to the ocean in England. It, it strikes me as cold.

Yes. I mean, yeah, I guess the water. Oh, the water. Yeah, for sure. It doesn't heat up too much. And I mean, it gets all right in this, in summer, I suppose. It's kind of like I've been to Boston and I've been to New York. I've been to Vegas. I've been quite a lot of places in the States. And I think it's on the same kind of, it's almost like, it's almost like Boston, but doesn't have as extreme weather, you know. It's not so hot and it's not so cold. It doesn't snow so much, and it doesn't get like—

we're not talking the Mediterranean or the Caribbean.

No, unfortunately not. The sea is fairly brown and cloudy rather than clear and crystally, although we do have some days that are like, you know, you could be fooled sometimes in some spots.

But yeah, Devon and Cornwall is pretty nice, but down, down where I am, it's pretty, pretty choppy and Yeah, the English would, uh, I mean, it seems like they, they, uh, deal with everything with that, uh, that, uh, proverbial stoicism and stiff upper lip. And it's like, you know, that it— the water's fine, it's, it's fine, we'll just go in and freeze. Uh, all right, so tell me about Unlost. That, that is a curious name.

So Unlost actually started as Unknown Epic, and the idea was that we took people on adventures where they didn't know where they were going. They knew it was going to be epic, but they didn't know where they were going. So the location was— the location and itinerary was a secret. And this came from having adventures ourselves, me and my previous co-founder, and found— finding how transformational it was to spend like 3 days in nature, no tech, no no people, just hiking and seeing amazing landscapes. And so we, um, we created a company called Unknown Epic. And then, long story short, a few years down the line, didn't quite work out with my co-founder, and we— and I ended up going alone. And I was, I was at a place where things hadn't gone so well in life, and a few tragedies had happened, some shocking things. And I felt a little kind of lost, and I was like, I really still want to do the adventures, I still want to create experiences for people, and I know that that's what my calling is. Um, and so I had to rename it because fell out with a co-founder and like, you know, he didn't want me to use the name. And yeah, I came up with Unlost because it was kind of like the idea is that, okay, we don't take people to secret locations anymore, a little bit, but not— that's not the premise. Um, But it was really just more of a mentality behind it to be like, in knowing that when you go into nature, when you go on the combination of nature and what I see as a real genuine adventure, so that has the parts of adventure that I believe make up an adventure, and also that evoke a sense of awe, the emotion of awe. And, and wonder. When you combine those things together, it can bring like an incredible sense of clarity for people, um, and essentially like get them unlost, I guess. So it kind of had a double meaning for me, the name, for me being unlost and also helping other people get, people get unlost.

I love that. Uh, now when we were talking in the green room, you have a, a video, uh, Touch Video Academy that I'm assuming is older. How have you straddled the fence between those two of having multiple endeavors and where you put your energy, where you put your money?

I've straddled difficultly. Yes. Challengingly. So Touch Video Academy came about where I'd actually been practicing my video skills whilst on adventures, and actually I made a conscious decision to make my adventures be— or to only use a phone to record video, right? Because at the time I didn't want to carry loads of kit with me, and the iPhone 3 had just come out and I was able to have iMovie and edit on the way home, and the picture quality wasn't too bad. So I decided to just commit to just only using a phone to make the video. And I actually made a short film whilst on an adventure using just the phone alone with no accessories, no tripods, no anything, just the iPhone 3. And it got selected by the Apple Store to go and speak to their staff about how to get more creative with the iPhone. And so all of a sudden, I did— Touch Video Academy wasn't a thing at the time.. But I had my first, you know, in air quotes, client, which was Apple Store.

That's a significant client.

Yes, that's a thing. So, so then I— and then when, when Unknown Epic took a dip and had some troubles, I was like, well, I still need to earn some money and I know how to teach people. I know how to make video and I'm good with people. So I put on a— I literally gave myself 2 hours to create a business. Literally put the timer on, friend's office. I was like, I've got this idea, I'm going to teach people how to use these phones to make videos because I think phone video is going to be the future. I think it's going to be a thing. And so I, I put an Eventbrite up of a workshop, message everybody I knew, created a name, created a logo, all in 2 hours. Sold like 4 places at the workshop, and I've still got the same name, same branding, same logo, same name. 10 years later with Touch Video Academy, and it went on to be— it went on to kind of, because of the timing and because of what I was doing, it went on to like find some level of financial success that brought me stability over otherwise very difficult time. So I, I held that there, um, to, to make the money. And then I, uh, and it was quite creative as well, right? I'm teaching people video, it was pretty fun. But I always had the love for adventure, and I always kept the experience design and the adventure alive on on the side.

Hey listeners, are you ready to turn your passion into profit? Then grab a copy of Profit First for Creatives. Click the link in the show notes to purchase a copy. And if you're not ready to make that full commitment, you can download a free copy of the first chapter. Check it out right now. Well, actually, that sounds like a brilliant idea and structure. You said you straddled the difficulty. What's difficult about it?

Well, the difficulty was that I really, you know, I found out pretty quick that teaching companies and teams like how to make social media content Uh, it wasn't really— it's not really mine. Doesn't really feel like my main thing. My main thing has always been creating experiences in real life for people, and so I've done that a lot, uh, and, and that's always been the thing that I've wanted to be doing more than the video training. But the video training always, uh, it seemed to deliver more cash flow easier, and so I've been draw— you know, I've had to keep it going. During, you know, times where I really wanted to just go all in on the adventures and all in on the creative events. And so, yeah, it's been difficult just sort of mentally to hang in there with a business that makes money, but I don't necessarily have much passion in it and it doesn't feel like a creative outlet as much as the thing that I want to be creative with and be the artist. So I'm battling between the artist and the entrepreneur. I'm like one foot in being the entrepreneur, just doing what makes the money and that's needed. And then I've never— the profit in the other side has never been as consistent. So hard to fully switch over. So that's where the difficulties come really.

Yes. And what you're describing is what I talk about in Profit First for Creatives, the three-pronged decision that creative entrepreneurs have to wrestle with because all entrepreneurs have this dual problem they're trying to solve, which is, can I meet a demand in the marketplace and can I do it at a profit? So that's the normal business paradigm. But then the creative entrepreneur has this third very important leg, which is, do I care about it? Like, is it, is it, is it interesting? Does it fuel my passion? Does it get me up in the morning? Am I excited about it? And, uh, yeah, that, that struggle is real. Um, I, I, I don't really know that there is a solution to it in the sense of like, this is, this is how you approach it and this is how you handle it. Because it doesn't fit neatly into a paradigm. It's just the filter that we have to make decisions through, whereas a not-so-creative entrepreneur doesn't really care about the passion piece. They're just like, well, there's some need in the market and I can make money at it. Let's go do it.

Yeah, yeah, and that's what I've kind of toyed with. It's like sometimes I see these ideas and I think, ah, that would— that's like a killer idea, you know, that would make money and that would be great. And then, uh, but the trouble is with that, the— it doesn't last long, you know, that kind of motivation doesn't, um, yeah, for me personally, it's like I'm so motivated by creative— it's like the cabin I'm sitting in here. I built this cabin with my hands, right, because I just had such a strong financially at the time it was like, this is a silly idea. Um, but I had such a strong creative vision. I could see, like, where I'm sitting now, I could see this in my mind, and it was like this strong draw to like, I have to build this. Like, and, and I'm going to pretend to myself that it will make money, um, just so I can kind of excuse the fact that I've got to do it. And actually it's not done so bad. And this is the— the cabins is the kind of next stage of Unlost as well, actually. And But that comes from a pure creative, like needing to satisfy the creative urge over— and actually it's put, you know, put a lot of financial strain on us actually to go this route with a lot of these cabins. But, you know, so my personal motivation is I'm not that motivated logically with finances. I'm more motivated by just having a— like once I get a creative vision of like seeing that come to life.

So, I mean, when you're describing that, having a clear vision and like you could see it and the compulsion to do it, at any point in the beginning, did you contemplate, how can I make money off this? Or was that just something that wasn't on your radar?

So yeah, there was an image of a financial model,. The idea was that people need— what I found, especially creatives, when I went into nature, I was much more creative. Like I said, I found clarity. So many people advocate for going for a walk to get clear and to get creative. There's so much science backing the idea that people are more creative whilst in nature for various reasons. But we go on these walks, we get great ideas, and then we're miles away from actually executing on those ideas. And I'd always dreamed of having a cabin in nature as my place to write, my place to create. And so many people said, "Oh yeah, I'd love that too. What a dream. That's just the ultimate dream." And so I thought, well, if other people want it, need it, and there's the rise of coworking and the rise of, you know, remote working, there's a market here for a cabin that's close enough to home so it feels like it's in nature, like a beautiful view, but you can get to in 20 minutes and you can go to just for the day to go to work, you get clear. And so the model was to create a membership where people would feel like they have a sense of ownership over this cabin, but they'd only come once a month or once a week depending on the membership. And it'd be kind of like a timeshare in a very small, beautiful office cabin. And then that was also the idea that that could be scalable, right? If I nail one that works and have a model, and then, you know, every town with a certain amount of people could have a cabin just on the outskirts that people can go to and use as a creative space, which includes like podcasting kit and wood-burning stove and all that stuff. So I did— I didn't just go, I've just got the vision for the cabin. I was like, this could be a good business as well. This ticks all the boxes, right? But obviously it was a new thing, sure, new market, and so I didn't have any proof that would work. I just had a hunch. And, and really, when I was freezing my fingers off, cutting my nail, cutting my knuckles in like a frozen open barn whilst convert building this on— it's on some wheels, it's on a trailer. Um, the thing that drove me through those moments of like effing and blinding you know, were— it wasn't like, oh, this is going to make me a million. It was like, this is going to look sick. This is going to be so good. Like, this is going to be amazing when it's finished. And I just can't wait to be sat in it. And since I've finished, I've had— there's been times when I've been a bit down financially, maybe, and I've come here, I've lit the fire, I've looked out the view, I've looked around at what I've built and gone, yeah, I'm so glad I built it despite what the bank balance says. It's— this is amazing. And so many, everyone who's come here has felt that sense of it too.

I absolutely love that story because I don't— you're right. If money, making money is your motivation, I find you said it perfectly. It only takes you so far. The thing that drives you through is the passion. When I was writing the book, uh, I interviewed Todd Henry, another author, um, and he, he enlightened me that the word passion in Greek, uh, parakletos, I think— I don't remember the Greek word— but he said that the literal translation is suffering. And his, his statement is, was, you know, it you have to be willing to suffer for your passion. Like, that's, um, not that you have to suffer, but you have to be willing to suffer.

It's more like, like, what you can— it's like, uh, how much suffering can you put up with in order to achieve something? And the more suffering you can put up with in order to achieve it, then it probably, like, it directly correlates with how passionate you are about that thing.

Yeah, and that's a hard line. We're not— because passion is from the heart, not the head. And it's really hard sometimes to know where to draw that line. I have a colleague that's been working on a product that I think will be transformational in the, the music space. Essentially, he's created a platform for artists to, to control their content and connect with their, uh, fans outside of big tech, uh, you know, so not YouTube, not Spotify, none of these where they control, you know, they can sell merch through the, the platform and, and it's just a revenue share model where He gets a small cut off the top, but they control everything, right? Um, and he was probably too soon to the market. He, he had a clear vision, like he, he saw it and he said, this is where it's going to go. And, and 7 years on and tens of millions of dollars, both his own and investors there was a point where, you know, a lot of his colleagues— I wasn't one of them, but some of our friends were like, you know, man, when are you going to give this up? Like, how much is enough? And he reached some dark points, like started to doubt himself. And, you know, the first quarter of 2026, where we are now, They've actually launched with multiple artists and the future is not written. Don't know if it'll be the success that he envisions, but that struggle is real when you believe in something and you're driven by your heart, but your brain is like, this is stupid. What are you doing?

Yeah, no, I get that. There's a sunken cost fallacy, right? Once you— sure, once you like put so much in. And there was points in building this where I was like, what am I doing here? Like, this is— I put a lot into this, you know. But then it's actually going all right. It's, you know, it's not— you know, I've not got to a point yet where I'm ready to like scale it. There's still just one. I had a bit of a rough ride with the second cabin, which I which I went into and I didn't build myself. I got someone else to build it based on my prototype and it didn't go so well. And that was a big drain on energy, stress, money. But I've learned incredible amount. It's not an easy thing putting an off-grid cabin in nature, no connection. You know, it's got Wi-Fi, it's got, it's got everything you need here. There's a lot of physical challenges. And also in convincing people that it's a good idea to like you know, have to drive 20 minutes and then walk 5 minutes across a muddy field to get to a cabin just to go to work. Like, you know, it's not for everyone. But the people who've come here, like, over 50% of people who've booked have come back. So, you know, in terms of like, um, you know, product-market fit, it, it's got good signals, right? Right. Like, people who come here, they get it and they go, ah, this was amazing, I need to come back, I'm going to write my book here. And so, you know, for all the— I think for all the effort and the sunken cost, you know, it's starting to see hope that it's really going to pay off. And like, I know the next stage is to actually start thinking about what does it look like to scale it, you know, and that would then be obviously a proper profitable business, not just an experiment, a crazy experiment. But it kind of aligns with the adventure side because, you know, with Unlost, the idea was to always take people on adventures and create experiences. And then we had COVID, and then we had— I had kids, and then, you know, all of these things stopped me going on many, as many adventures. But I still had the— I still wanted essentially that the goal was the same, to get people into nature experiencing the emotion of awe which then helps them to be more clear and more creative. And, you know, so whether that's on a hike in the Alps or sitting in a cabin in Sussex, people do feel that when they sit here and they see the weather roll over and you can see all the hills, you've got the fire going, um, you know, you feel next to nature, you feel in nature. And so you get those benefits, and people have reported that they definitely have got those benefits.

No, I think it's brilliant. I mean, I've— my experience and having discussions with others, the power of being in creation is it makes you creative. You feel in touch with your creator and you understand— you said the word awe, and I think that's the right word. Like, you know, not to be too philosophical, but we live in a world of our own construct. You know, we control the variables and that's, that's where we spend most of our days in climate-controlled environments. And, you know, everything is convenient and on demand. And understanding that— not that that's false. I mean, it's obviously real. But recognizing what we don't have control over gives us that awe. Like you mentioned the weather, like when you sit there and look at the ocean and you see a weather pattern roll in, you're like, oh, okay, I'm not really in control. I just think I'm in control.

Well, it's a really There's a, there's a newer definition of the emotion of awe, um, after they've done a lot more scientific studies on it. Because, um, they— it was one of the last sort of emotions that got— that they were able to do experiments that were like, you know, deemed scientific. Because it's kind of always different for a lot of people, right? It's kind of quite subjective. But they, they have a new definition that is now in a few books, but it's, it's, um It's that awe is the sense of being connected to something both vast and mysterious at the same time. So something that feels vast, whether that's vast in time, vast in size, vast in, in many different ways, and something mysterious. So we just don't quite grasp— my brain can't quite grasp how, you know, like the Creator, like nature. And there's, and there's different sources of awe, um, there's different, like thing. There's different typical sources where, uh, people get awe triggered inside them from these different sources. And it's just super interesting. And I found that, like, actually, when I, when I started reading about awe as an emotion and what it means and its history and all these different things and how it, how fundamental it is to our, our human being and our human-like makeup, um, I literally stumbled upon what I what felt like such a lightning bolt for me, which was like, ah, this is what I really do. Because I'd always struggled, um, I'd always struggled with feeling like I do, I do too many different things and I'm too scattered and I've got, you know, this over here, video over here, adventures over here, cabins, um, you know, robots and all these different things that I do. And it was just like, oh, I'm never going to make— none of these are ever going to grow as big as I'd like them because I do too many things. And then I discovered— um, I didn't discover awe, but I started learning about the emotion of awe. And I was like, bingo, I don't do all these different things. All I've ever done, the common thread throughout them, is it's always been I can— I help connect people to the feeling of awe. So whether that's through video and spotting the beautiful glistening of light on a a drip coming off of a flower or whatever the moment is that you have to be like eagle-eyed when making video, or whether it's through the design of this cabin where you've got 180-degree view so you can see the whole of the hills, so you feel that sense of awe in nature, or whether it's creating a character for a robot which people go, "Is there someone inside of that? How is that happening? This is amazing." It connects you to childlike wonder. So no matter what kind of medium or thing that I'm doing, it's always been driven by this sense of like, I love that moment when someone feels awe because it's so powerful and it's so— it connects us to like, yeah, like who we really are as humans. And it's, it's just amazing for the mind and the body. So although I do all these different things, awe is the thing that like goes through all of them. And so once I found that out, I felt almost like at peace that I was actually doing in the right direction, even though I was in many directions.

Yeah, I think that's a brilliant insight and I love it. I think for me, the powerful part about awe is its effect on my ego and, and Not as you would think in a diminutive way, like, you know, who am I in all of creation and look at this vastness and I'm such a small piece. True, but it also— you said it gave you this peace. To me, it's the same thing. It's the calming of my fears. That awe gives me, right? Like, all of this is happening without me. Like, I don't have anything to do with it and everything's working just fine, right? And so, you know, being able to say, well, you know what, maybe I don't need to be worrying about as much as I do. Yeah.

Yeah. It's definitely a humbler. Yeah. Especially when you're like, as you said, like looking out at ocean or when you feel this connectedness to something vast and mysterious, you're like, well, you know, there's a lot more than what's going on in here.

Yeah, exactly.

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In the green room, I'm going to pivot. In the green room, you mentioned that this conversation came at a— you didn't use the word fortuitous, unusual. I don't remember what word you used, but interesting time. I don't know what word you used, but tell me more about that.

Yeah, well, I suppose so. I've always kind of gone through all the things that I've done, as I said, just, you know, driven by the creative side. And then there was a part, there was a moment there was a moment about maybe 15 years ago where we'd been traveling and I— we'd been on this amazing adventure to this unknown island, um, and I sat with my wife on the beach and I turned to my wife and I said, I'm never getting a job again. And she was like, uh, what? I said, uh, I said, I decided, like, I'm just— I'd have to do something myself. Like, I have to be my own person and I have to figure out, figure it out alone and create a business or something. And for years I was just kind of like in that mindset of being a Lone Ranger. I was, I thought I was creating a business, but what I was just doing was, was just being a freelancer or creating my own job, right? And so although I'd not had a job for a long time and I created like, thought I'd create a business, it wasn't really a business, you know. It wasn't like I could— it was just me doing stuff for people. And so it wasn't like I could leave it and it made money without me and felt like a real business, uh, until a couple of years ago. And it was aligned with this cabin as well, where it was like, oh, so I could, I could create something and that thing could keep making money whilst I didn't have to do it again. I could go create something else. And that for me was like, oh, that would be good. You know, that seems like a better idea. And I always kick myself like, how am I only, you know, nearly 40 years old and realizing now what an actual business is? I wasn't brought around, up around any sort of entrepreneurship. I didn't know anyone who had a business. I didn't know none of my friends, none of my family. Like, as I said, Bogner wasn't very entrepreneurial, um, so I didn't just have that exposure to real businesses. And then I had this kind of brainwave, which was like— and, and, and when I built this cabin and we went away and I had some members, we went away on holiday and my phone pinged, oh, rent, you know, another membership paid. And I'm like, we're on holiday and the money's coming in whilst we're on the holiday. I was like, oh wow, okay, here we are. This is what we— this is actually a business. Like, this is what it's about. And so And over the last couple of years, in knowing that, it's been great to go like, I see what I have to do now. But it's also been a learning journey because I've realized like I'm quite late to the, I'm quite late to the game here. Not too late, obviously, still young, but I'm quite late to the game in realizing what a real business is. And so making a profitable business is, in my mind, is now is now different to what it, what it used to be. And in the last sort of year or so, I've been really trying to, you know, head that direction and, and only accept that as a thing that I'm doing rather than, rather than the old framework in my mind, which was me just doing stuff that I'm good at for money.

I— there's, there's so much in there that I, I want to, to highlight for listeners. The first is the distinction between being self-employed and having a business. And not that— there's nothing wrong with being self-employed, um, but, but understanding that a business is something that persists without your continued efforts. It is not a, uh, an output of your, your continuous efforts. Right? That's a job. You may not bill by the hour, but if it requires you to show up and do the work, it's a job. And that transition most people don't make because there's a lot— I think there's a variety of reasons, but most people don't make that. And The second thing I would point out, you said you're late. I had a conversation just yesterday with a local woman. She came in and we had a conversation. She's 68. She's been in the marketing and promotion space all her career, and she had along the way developed some very fascinating intellectual property. And we were talking about it and I'm like, where is this on like your priorities? Like, what do you think? And she was like, well, pretty low. And I'm like, yet you came here to talk to me about it. So like, why? And she's like, well, I have this, I have this real passion about this. And I'm like, okay. So what it boiled down to over the course of this 2-hour conversation and us talking and hearing her story is that she had delivered this intellectual property in a, in a teaching format, a coaching format, and she didn't want to go back and do that, right? Because she felt like she'd been there and done that and she could make more money doing other stuff. And I— we talked about like, well, but what if you created this intellectual property, you took it and you licensed it to others? And the point being, she had a passion for getting that IP out there because she felt very passionate about its impact on people. But she didn't want to do it herself. And it was like, at 68, it's like, it's okay. You don't have to do it yourself. You can let others do it on your behalf. I mean, you credential them, you license them, you ensure that they know their stuff. But why is it that you have to deliver it? And so I say that she was 68. You said you're nearly 40. I'm 55 and still figuring shit out all the time. I think that all of the journeys are unique and you get there when you're supposed to get there. You know, I've beat myself up many times about like, why did it take me so long to learn that lesson?

Why?

Why do I keep making the same mistake? And, you know, I don't think that serves us. I don't think it serves us to say that we're late to the party or that, you know, we should have learned this earlier, we should have figured this out earlier.

I think that comes from, that definitely comes from like, uh, comparison though, right?

And 100%.

And, and I think what part of my, again, one of those struggles of being straddling the video versus the, you know, adventures and events is that I don't— I would rather be spending my time with people, building things, creating things in a physical space than in a digital space. And so when I'm doing the video training, it's like I've got a really amazing IP when I train people with a video. I'm really good at— I coach people on how to be confident on camera, and I've got an amazing method for that which works really well. And I've got an amazing method for creating video and breaking down all these things. But it forces me to be more on social media because that's where it's at. Like, that I have to be up to date with that stuff. And we all know how, uh, how much of a— how many rabbit holes and how much detriment that can be to ourselves being on in that space rather than being in the physical space. I think part of the, part of the resentment— I guess resentment is maybe the right word— towards the doing the video training stuff is that like, um, is there that I have to be in that space where I'd much prefer to be out in the woods or building something with my hands or a festival building a stage and creating an experience, right? So there's that. It comes from comparison because you see, you know, you look online and every, every 20-year-old's currently making millions with OpenClaw and AI or whatnot, right? You know, we all know that's not true, but it can, it can feel like that pretty quick when you, when you're in a social, when you're in a space with a lot of social media. Oh yeah, yeah, it's like, yeah, but I, I guess that I don't feel, um, I'm glad that you picked up on that and I'm glad that you made that point because, you know, it's easy to slip into that and be like, oh, I feel like I'm late. And I guess, I, I guess, um, I need to have a bit more acceptance around like I'm just— I am where I am and for a reason. It's all unfolding for a reason rather than having to battle for it.

It is. And it's an adventure. I mean, you know, if you think about the great stories, they're not linear, you know, and the hero always encounters challenges. And it reminds me of this author who was a naval aviator wrote this book called "Debriefing to Win," but my favorite line from listening to him speak was he said, "Every time we would go on a mission and something would fail, like it didn't go as planned, our response was, 'The story just got better.'" And I'm like, "What do you mean?" He goes, "Well, after we're successful in our mission and we come back and we're debriefing and we're talking about it, it's going to be, look at what we overcame. The story just got better.

And I'm like, yeah, I love that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a great way to frame it. And, and actually, like, you know, the adventure analogy— it's not even an analogy, it's a reality, right? It's, um, it's like, so when we take— we've taken people on adventures out into the wilderness, there's, you know, there has to be an adventure isn't an adventure without a challenge. Absolutely. Don't just be— otherwise it's a holiday, which is lovely. Yes, brilliant. I'd love it all.

I'd actually really like a holiday right now, but just 30 minutes south, you, you can go to the beach.

Yeah, yeah, go to the soup. Um, but, but, you know, the— an adventure isn't an adventure without a challenge. It's actually a— and there's actually a— it's actually a framework for adventure that I present when I'm speaking about adventure. Um, and it kind of combines what I believe is— because, and like you said, adventure is, is the basis of a story. And there's, there's a, there's a connecting, uh, pattern between what I teach with video and what, and what, what I do with adventures. And it's both around this idea of storytelling and, and essentially, you know, you're An adventure is you're creating a story, you're, you're, you're living a story, whereas the video, you're telling the story. And I have this, uh, framework called the Fairy Tale Framework, and it's essentially like a, a story archetype which many people have heard of, Hero's Journey and all that stuff, but simplified for like short-form video. But also it relates across to adventure. So it's, it's once upon a time, suddenly, luckily, happily ever after. And so any story can very loosely fit into: once upon a time, here's the setting and the scenario, suddenly is the challenge, the lucky is the overcoming of the challenge, and the happily ever after is like, what's the vision of the future? How— where does— where does it go next? Where do people want to next? And so I teach people that in short-form storytelling when they're trying to take a topic and like a complex topic and say like a 1-minute video, how do you like say that video, how do you speak on camera without waffling on, without rambling? Well, you put it into a story framework and you say, once upon a time, like in your mind you say the once upon a time was a hook, whatever the— you say whatever's going to be in the video. The challenge is whatever the pain that you— the problem that you're going to solve with this information. The luckily is the information that solves the problem, and the happily ever after is like the call to action. What should people do next? Watch the podcast, whatever. But when it takes it over, when I take that same, you know, that same pattern occurs in adventure because you are living a story, right? But I say the 4 parts that have to be in it, the 4 parts of an adventure that make it an adventure, is a mystery. So some sense of mystery, like when you start, you don't quite know what's going to happen. A challenge, as we said, there's some sort of adversity, there's some problem we've got to solve, there's some mountain we've got to climb. And then there's joy, which is— can be from the overcoming of the challenge or just found along the way.

Joy, unexpected, the, the unexpected.

Yeah, exactly. Um, and then the happily ever after is some sense of change. So what's happened because of what we just lived, it's created some sort of change in our viewpoint, in our personality and our being, it's created a change. So mystery, um, I'll recap them now and forget even though I've just explained it. Um, so yeah, it's mystery, challenge, joy, and change. And if you have all of those on any endeavor, whether it's a walk in the park and or whether it's a climb in the mountains, it's gonna— it's, it's an adventure.

Yeah, and, you know, sometimes the challenge is not what you think it is. You know, you think it's, what's his name? Beowulf? Not Beowulf. Who is the— Grindel. You think it was Grindel, but really it was Grindel's mother. It wasn't Grindel, it was Grindel's mother. So, you know, sometimes the adventure, the challenge is not what you think it is. And that's part of the journey is realizing, oh, I thought I was fighting this, but it really wasn't.

And that's the mystery, right?

Mm-hmm.

It's a mystery. So you don't quite know what the challenge is going to be. You don't know what the joy is going to be. You don't know what the change is going to be. It starts with the mystery.

I love it. How do people find out more about Unlost? Or Touch Video Academy if they want to learn more, Kim?

So Unlost is, is actually Unlost Co. Because I couldn't get the domain Unlost, really annoying, but it's unlostco.com. And people can find that on Instagram as well, Unlost Co. So U-N-L-O-S-T-C-O. And Touch Video Academy is touchvideoacademy.com. Pretty simple. And I am, to be honest, I spend most of my, most of the content I share and things I talk about, it's often on LinkedIn. And I'm just Kim Slade on LinkedIn.

Perfect. Listeners will have those links in the show notes. If you like what you've heard, please rate the podcast, share the podcast, subscribe to the podcast. If you don't like what you've heard, and I don't know why you wouldn't, uh, shoot us a message, hit that envelope below and tell us what you'd like to hear and I'll get rid of Kim. Until next time, ta-ta for now.