Creators Gone CAB

So like something that I do intentionally, it's like, it's called like the question game. It's like, oh, what do you do? Like, oh, I do this. Like, oh, do you like it? That's interesting. What's that about? And when you do that for 15 straight minutes with anybody, you're automatically one of the most interesting people in the room. Like, why is this guy so interesting? It's like, well, it's because you just talked about yourself for 30 minutes.

Welcome to another episode of The Profitable Creative, the only place on the interwebs where you will learn how to turn your passion into profit. I am your host, Christian Brim. Recently we had an in-person client event here in Oklahoma City and we had a few of our clients gather around and I took the opportunity to record some of our conversation and publish it here on as a podcast episode. So included in this panel are Dustin Peed, Daniel Noriega, Scott Halverson, Nick Tursk, Kyle Thomas, and Randy Kemp. And I apologize already for the audio. Randy did the best that he could with the room that we were in. So the audio is not up to par, but I think the content is brilliant. We talk about everything from sales to AI to growing your business to managing your personal network and the importance of that human connection. So take a listen and hit us back with some comments.

I feel like a big thing we talked about in the end when I was talking about the industry changes is personality and how we interact as people more than the skills or knowledge we offer.

Okay, so how would that— how would you define that?

In this particular instance for me, or what some of us were talking about, is like presenting or being able to present yourself. And then if you're in the right room, the right place, people will see what you have to offer, that you have something to offer more than what you were hired for or what you were brought to the table for, and how that can nourish bigger opportunities for client relationships.

Here's, here's, here's, here's a way I'm going to phrase this question. What was your biggest takeaway from today? Because that sounds like—

so that wasn't— okay, that wasn't actually my biggest takeaway because I just think that's obvious to me.

But we did talk about the human factor in all of our businesses, that human relationship that keeps people coming back to, or keeps, uh, maybe somebody choose— might choose you over somebody else is the relationships that you build and the way you treat people when you're trying to get their business and then afterwards as well. So it seems like that, I do think that I heard that a lot today, it's like treat people like humans, treat people—

everyone has human experience.

Yeah, that human factor can't be taken out of the business and especially in a world where there's a lot of like Oh, am I going to lose my job to AI? Like, you still have to have humans in the mix, right?

They're always going to be there, even if they're doing nothing.

I assume you're— these mics are hot. Oh, thank you. Okay. Just making sure. Okay, so this is the way I'm going to— you want me to record them? Is that what I was supposed to be doing? I saw a red light down there. This is the way I'm going to phrase that question then. So What is AI not going to change in your business?

I feel like honestly I can kind of talk a little bit to both that as well as kind of bringing in a little bit of how I've almost intentionally organized our sales funnel. I always tell people I sell a year in advance because part of my sales funnel is about reaching out to people who I just think are doing something interesting, saying, love to grab a coffee or a drink, talk about them, and most of the time they don't even realize that I'm intentionally not talking about myself. So in that sales method, you know, like something like technology and AI can list facts, it can list information, it can pull from information, but what it can't do is listen to the person, to the customer, to the buyer. So like something that I do intentionally, it's like, it's called like the question game. It's like, oh, what do you do? Like, oh, I do this. Like, oh, do you like it? That's interesting. What's that about? And when you do that for 15 straight minutes with anybody, you're automatically one of the most interesting people in the room. Like, why is this guy so interesting? Well, it's because you just talked about yourself for 30 minutes.

Yes.

And but they put you in that position now, and you do that without ever trying to sell them anything. You don't try like, oh, well, I do video production, I do this thing, it'd be cool. Well, let me schedule a meeting. Like, let's talk about projects you got. Like, it's like, have a drink, talk about who they are, leave. Follow-up, say, that was super fun, love to hang out again sometime. In a year, that person now has a job, and they go, that guy was really fun, I really think he would be the one that might be helpful for this thing. That's the thing technology cannot do at any point. They can't— like, and if it did, if there was an AI bot, that, that's sad. If you're sitting there by yourself talking to just your AI bot with a drink and you're like, thanks, AI bot, that is really sad.

Some of those GPT commercials were kind of like that. Yeah, it was, it bad. Oh no, it wasn't. It was Claude's commercials about GPT. Yeah, on the Super Bowl. All right, Kyle, what's AI not going to change for you?

I mean, I think when I think about technology, it comes down to that humans made the technology and humans will always be humans at their core. They have other things to do outside of their job. And how can you connect? With that human to make a relationship, whether it involves technology or not. I think everything goes back to our human experience, and that's what I focus on in my business, is to connect with the human first, because the technology is what it is. It's always going to advance, it's always going to change, but that human experience won't change. Because whether the human is doing a job or not, whether we get to a point where we don't have to do anything because the computers are so smart, humans will still be humans. And if you can connect with them, then you have that relationship to build off of, whether that's work or friendship. That is always going to be the thing that leads you to the next thing, whether it's work or friendship. And that's what's really going to drive, you know, that relationship. So I always focus on the human first, as you said. I love that. It's like when I get on a call with a potential client or something, I always look to like whatever's in their screen. If we're on video, I'll like look in the background and be like, "Oh, it's an interesting picture of your family." Um, you know, or just like, "Oh, what have you been doing today?" And then I mentioned kind of what I got going on in my life. It just takes down that barrier of like, this isn't all about work for me. I care about the human first. Um, yeah, that's just human experience. That's the first and foremost for me, always. If I don't get the job, that's totally fine with me. If they leave knowing that they had a good interaction, then maybe that will come back around.

Dustin, what say you?

Yeah, it was interesting in hearing the words human experience a lot today, and then obviously at the start of this as well. Just back up, tell a story real quick. So when I was in college, I played with some full-time scholarship musicians, and I don't know if you've experienced this before when you're working with other creatives, or if you have ever like musician experience or anything like that. I hear you play drums, so same.

Allegedly.

Allegedly. So when I was with that group, we used to be able to communicate to each other nonverbally just by looking at each other, or someone would— the lead, the lead would do something with their leg or their hand, or you could kind of since this thing happening.

Mm-hmm.

And at the end of the day, that's what people call me, like, musician's intuition or artist intuition.

Mm-hmm.

Got out of that, got into a world where I was leading volunteer musicians, and I was getting extremely frustrated because they didn't have the same intuition.

Mm-hmm.

And what I realized after several years of getting it wrong was that the difference was, is that they didn't have the same experience, not only that I did, but the same experience together to be able to have that tuition. To back up, the band that I was with, we played together 6 times a week plus 2 rehearsals. So no wonder we could ESPN this thing across the stage, right?

Right.

Um, so I think what technology is going to miss is the intuition that comes from the human experience. And I think that's what great creatives bring to the table is go, I sense something happening in the room right now. I sense something happening on set right now, and we need to pivot. AI is not going to pivot. They're going to go, well, this is the plan, right? And that's what we're going to do, even if it's the wrong thing, because in the moment it needs to pivot. In the moment, everybody has that moment in the room. On stage, on set, post-production, at the venue. We need to pivot because this thing is happening and it's special. AI can't do that like, like the creative can do it. I also think it's client retention too, which we talk— I talk a lot about with my clients. It's that human connection of, well, like what you were saying, Kyle. Hey, I noticed that in the background, right? But what do you do after you notice that? So what we train our clients to do is to take note of that and then go, oh, I saw it. See a picture of your daughter back there.

What's that?

Oh, she's 8 years old. She's super into soccer. We hang up the call. My client sends them an 8-year-old girl's soccer ball. Right. That's Giftology. If you haven't read that book. Yeah, that's, that's, that's the, that's the human part. Another human part. That AI might be able to pick up on, but they're gonna— but they're not gonna be able to make the connection that humans can. And I think that's where we stand out.

I, I've mentioned this on the podcast, uh, a couple of times. The best book I read about AI was a book called Prediction Machines, and it was the only book I read that was not written by a computer scientist. It was written by a couple of economists, and they— this is all pre-LLM, right? I think the book came out 10, 12 years ago. But what they, they said from an economics, purely economic standpoint, when the cost of something goes down, the demand for it and its corollaries go up. So the example they used was if the price of ice cream went down, the demand for hot fudge would go up because people are eating more hot fudge sundaes. Yeah. And so in looking at AI, what happens when predictions become free, which, you know, we even before LLMs, we had a bunch of predictions that were free, you know, Google Maps. Google Search, you know, all of the algorithms. Yeah, you might have paid with your information, but, you know, they didn't have any hard dollar cost. What is the demand for the corollary? Well, they came to the conclusion that the thing that was going to become in demand was context and judgment, and those things are inherently human. That the AI can't deliver. Yeah. Which I find fascinating because it's a lot of what— with the conversation we had today, it was— it's not this is potentially wrong, the AI, the prediction flagging this doesn't fit the pattern. It's, is that important? Yeah, I mean, that's, that's, that's what the judgment in the context is. Uh, it's very good at saying this is what should come next, uh, but it's not good at saying is that important and then what do we do with it.

Intuition, judgment, kind of the same.

Yeah, yeah, no, I think, I think so. Yeah, yeah.

And, and I think that there's warmth in human connection that you're not going to get in AI. And so when you're on set, or in my case, like at a venue working with a couple, the family, the friends, there's a level of warmth that goes along with that judgment and intuition that makes people feel comfortable. As soon as people feel comfortable, my product's better. If people feel uncomfortable, my product sucks. So I really try to lean into that, like finding connection, judging whether I have that connection, having an intuition about this situation, and then using my skills to, you know, create what I do, but do it in a way that at the end of the day people are telling me, "What a great job you did," before seeing a single photo. People will review us and say, One of my favorite parts of our wedding day was having this couple shooting our wedding because it just made me feel so comfortable. That's—

you were part of the experience.

Absolutely, but not in a way where I'm trying to take the spotlight. Sure. But just supporting that makes them feel, uh, seen, heard, like making a judgment call onto what should be done right now, um, and Also, like, do we need to step back a little bit and let these moments happen and not insert ourselves into that? So I think that it's going to be a long time before some robot photographer shows up at a wedding to take pictures and offer—

that's actually a terrifying thought— of an AI, you know. But we'll leave that. Schwarzenegger showing up. Yeah. Daniel, do you have any Thought on that?

Yeah, I would say that my job is extremely technical, and on paper it seems like AI should be able to handle the tasks that I do. And it, it is amazing to me that I was able to realize and capitalize that my value is being a human on set and making human observations treating people like people, actually setting a tone, a warmth in the moment. Like, I— there are producers that will hire me because they say, your presence will be perfect with this photographer, your energy will be perfect, I need you on this job for this photographer. That's just— you can't accomplish that with AI. No. And the majority of the jobs I do within an hour, 2 hours, someone on set is gonna be like, so how long have you guys been working together? You guys always work together? We met an hour ago, right? You know, that's the human element I'm able to bring to my job.

That's the intuition.

Yes.

You were, you know, yeah, you, you just understand immediately what goes next.

Yeah.

Or little, little things. I mean, it really is I'm on set just scanning nonstop, right? And if there's a little wince in a photographer, are you— I haven't seen you had any water for a while. Hey, first assistant, can you go get some water?

Right.

Just like, how is AI ever going to do that?

Right.

And it makes people feel seen and taken care of and good. So you're keeping that, that healthy excitement of being there that day, all of us doing what we want to be doing that day. Like AI is never going to be able to replace that.

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Okay, my next question is, uh, what was your best takeaway from today?

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I feel like I can start with this a little bit, cuz it, it wasn't what I expected it to be.

Mm-hmm.

It's more that there's a lot more, like, no matter where we are in the country, we're all kind of dealing with very, very similar things.

Mm-hmm.

Cuz I feel like, you know, I can speak from being in a, a very, you could call it a low media market. Like there's not— we're not Texas where there's just media hubs nearby. We're not Los Angeles where that's a media hub. It's basically just people who liked this decided, I'm gonna try and doing B2B direct stuff. So the fact that us in Michigan, which is a very small media market, is dealing with the exact same issues as people in Texas, people in California, it's like just more the realization of it's the, the in the area geographic isn't what's defining the work and what's coming from it. It's the people who are successful at it are successful for the same reasons is what I'm feeling, no matter where you are. And that's kind of something I took from today.

Love it.

Kyle?

Yeah, I mean, I came up with this idea because I just wanted to see and be in a room with people that cared about— I think my first perception was finances as much as me and how much Core has supported me in creating a lot of stability in my business. And then that also created a lot of stability in my life. Uh, just really has transformed everything I do and give me a lot of peace of mind at night. I was like, I need to see who else is working with Core because I want to know how they're feeling about it. What kind of ideas do they come to the table with? And I was very surprised that that really wasn't what came from today, but more so just that we are dealing with all the same things, but just able to connect. And maybe it isn't just, you know, that we care about our finances, but it was just like, you know, it's just our step in the journey, right? We talked a lot about today of you kind of start at a certain point and then you kind of get to a certain level. And it was just really nice to be in a room where people are asking those same questions as you are. And, and that's what I think I got the biggest today, is like being in the room with people that are asking the same questions, maybe not necessarily caring about the same things, but we're all kind of working towards this thing of what's next.

Yeah, I, I think, as I said earlier, that, uh, finances are— I mean, the numbers are a lagging indicator, right? They represent what's already happened. And one of the things— I don't like to tell people I'm a CPA because they have this idea of what— okay, you're a CPA, therefore you are X. So I don't like to tell people I'm a CPA. But when they find out that I'm a CPA, they invariably say, oh, you must love math. And my statement is no, no, I mean, I don't hate math, but there's this misconception that accounting is math. Accounting and finances is a language. It's more akin to a language, and you're talking about the language of business. And every business has a story. The numbers are just the standard way of telling the story, yeah? And so if people approach it from the standpoint of learning a new language, not to be fluent in that language, but to know enough to get by, I find creatives find that mindset shift a lot better, to think of it in terms of language versus numbers. And it's easier to grasp the concepts that way. But yeah, I guess I'm not surprised that we didn't talk a lot about numbers here today because the numbers are the end. They're not the result of something else.

Yeah.

Daniel, what was your takeaway today?

You know, honestly, I would say Kind of to reiterate this whole human aspect, I love that I feel like everyone at the table today, it just always circled back to that. And I think it's important to realize that you have to invest in how to communicate better, what makes someone feel seen. I started, I don't know how long ago now, in Google Maps, if I go to a restaurant, if I go to a bar, I'll write down my server's name in the notes. I'll put it in Google Maps. If I have a conversation with somebody, I'll add in my contacts, "Daughter name this, age this," you know, and even if I don't know them that well.

Right.

And that way I can refer to it later. It really makes people feel seen and considered. And I think we're all— everyone here has realized that's a big part of why we are successful, why we care about what we do, that that translates to us caring about the clients, and that's more important to us than the job. You know, I think that's really special.

Nick, did I already ask you what your biggest takeaway is?

To get started.

Oh, okay. I think that for me—

Scott, go ahead.

For me, I think that you're constantly either growing your business or afraid that you're losing out. And so to have a positive mindset, like, what can we do to grow? And just some of the things that we were talking about earlier is like identifying the problem, like, how can we create a solution for that problem? Do the— do our clients, our customers even know what their problems are? Those type of questions are growth questions. They're not like trying to claw back any losses. Yeah. And so having a conversation like this in a setting where it is an accounting firm, it's a tax— allegedly, yeah, it's— that support is there. I don't have to worry about whether or not all of those things are being taken care care of, I can focus my time on client retention, getting new clients, like building my business. I would love to see growth. I feel like that my company kind of like has hit a good spot and feels good, but maybe there's more. And so, um, constantly trying to like look at opportunity and not worry about what's happening in the industry as much. And so for me, I think that just having seeing the tools that you guys offer to give me that support to then look at what's coming down the road instead of worrying about all the details, the numbers, the boring stuff. Yeah, is the takeaway that I'm coming from. I should lean into it a little bit more.

You talk about growth, and when you first said growth, I, I, for some reason, I was thinking personal growth, not business growth.

Yeah.

Um, I, I know, uh, you haven't listened to this podcast, so you probably haven't listened to my other podcast, The Chris Project, where, um, that, that's a passion project, and it, it's, uh, it's around entrepreneurial, uh, mindset and mental health. And, uh, we talk a lot about on that how entrepreneurship, business ownership is the ultimate choose-your-own-adventure game. Um, you, you get to pick, uh, what you do, and that can be absolutely wonderful and fulfilling. It can also be terrifying. Um, and what I found in my own journey is that the business growth is, is directly correlated to personal growth. And in, in my situation, we reached a point, uh, several years ago where the business wasn't growing any further. And it— our, our natural instinct as humans is to, uh, look outside of ourselves for the reason for the problem, right? And so I, I think it's very easy to say, well, it's the industry, It's, it's the economy as a whole. It's my employees. It's my customers. Like, not ever looking back in the mirror and saying, what, what needs to change for me in order for this business to grow? That's right. Um, and, and, and that was a huge inflection for me point. But I, I, I love what you said, Scott, because it's— it is about being in these rooms and having these conversations and and challenging yourself to ask those difficult questions.

What was the name of your other podcast?

The Chris Project. But I'm not Chris. There's a lot of confusion on that. Chris was— so I'll give you guys the 90-second story on the origin of this. I had a client, uh, 10-plus years ago. He had a manufacturing business, and he was in his 50s, very successful. A business really was going great. But he was burnt out, and he— his solution to that— he was a self-taught chemist. He manufactured paint stripper for the government. Okay, real exciting stuff. But he had a high school education, he taught himself chemistry, and he developed the chemical solutions for these products that he sold. And his solution was that he was going to hire a president to run the company, and he was going to literally go back to the lab. Um, he invited me on the interview for this president, and this, this— we went to lunch. I'd never met this guy. In the course of the lunch, this candidate, uh, proceeded to regale us with his stories of cheating on his wife with strippers, which I thought a strange thing to lead in an interview, but, uh, whatever. So we leave lunch and Chris, my client, he calls me and he says, "Well, what do you think?" And I said, "Well, I think if he cheats on his wife, he'll cheat on you. Don't hire him." Chris, in fact, hired him. Fast forward a year, the president of the company gets arrested for trying to bribe a contract officer. Throws Chris under the bus, says it was all Chris's idea. Chris, I believe him when he said, "I had no idea what was going on." But in any case, he got sent to El Reno Federal Penitentiary down the street for 2 years. The president walked. I never talked to Chris before, after he went to prison, but a few weeks before he was scheduled to be released, he took his own life. And that story haunted me, uh, for a decade. I'm like, could I have said something? Could I have done something? Like, what, you know? But I realized with that 10 years of perspective what was really going on. He was burnt out, and he didn't know where to go with it. He didn't know how to process it. And then of course getting arrested and all of that, I mean, like, he just couldn't— I don't know what mindset he was in when he was in prison, but obviously it wasn't good. I say all that to say that's why I started the podcast, was to have those conversations with entrepreneurs and other professionals around those things that entrepreneurs don't talk about. You know, entrepreneurs want to talk about successes. You get in a room, you know, a lot of times it's, you know, let's talk about how great I'm doing. They don't want to say my wife left me because, you know, I work all the time or, you know, I don't have a relationship with my kids because, you know, I'm distant. Any of those things. So that's why the Chris Project.

I'm gonna look it up. Okay, Dustin, on the list.

Yeah, what was your biggest takeaway today?

Uh, yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting that, um, I'm going now after that story and after hearing us talk about the human experience and different things like that. I've struggled with mental health my whole life. I wrote a book about kind of my journey through mental health. In 2024, mostly just for my kids to have it in case something happened to me. I wanted them to kind of know this is how I overcame and this is, you know, kind of thing. But I think that I know for me and I know for a lot of the creators that I surround myself with, we all struggle with imposter syndrome. And that sounds really surfacey, but I also think that it goes deeper into calling. And if I'm really supposed to be doing this or not. I think all of us have woke up on a Tuesday morning going, am I really supposed to be doing this or not? And so my biggest takeaway today was being surrounded in a room with what I believe are people who are still just trying to figure it out like I am. And so it kind of just washes any trace of imposter syndrome out the door. I think the human experience, we talked a lot about this today. In our conversations about like, hey, how can we do more of this?

Right. Community.

Yeah, community. And the reason is, is because we need to be able to kind of like rub shoulders with C and 4D.

Yeah.

Hey, these are real people with real problems and real families and real, you know, blind struggles who are just trying to make it in a similar fashion with similar passions as we all do. Was the most encouraging thing for me. It was worth every penny to travel halfway across the country just to be able to sit in a room with people who are doing, doing and dealing with the same thing I'm doing and dealing with.

I love that. I think entrepreneurship can be very lonely and I think creatives kind of suffer in a in an additional way, in that, uh, there are a lot of people that don't want to tackle the business side of it. Like, they just want to do whatever it is they do and get paid and go on. But for those people that want to build a business, something that's sustainable, something that provides the lifestyle that they want, those are different conversations, right? And And you need to have those conversations with those other people that are on that same journey.

Yeah.

Not the persons that's trying to figure out what equipment do I get or, you know, how do I price my, you know, services. Well, gentlemen, thank you very much for being here today and recording this podcast. Any last words? Anything anybody wants to say? Jeremy, you've been remarkably silent.

I was trying to because I thought it was these guys' spot.

Oh, Jeremy's here. Yeah.

Hi, I didn't see you there.

Hey guys.

No, I'm good. All right. I appreciate it though. We won't acknowledge Dorinda who slammed the door on our way in.

Yes.

We're not going to ask what you had to think. Until next time, ta ta for now.