69 Minutes of No BS Roleplaying from an $8M Closer

To maximize what you're making in sales, you have to get good at overcoming objections and getting people across the line, especially the A-types who actually have the money. Now, I'm Christian Polk. I've closed over $8 million in deals and got to over $60,000 per month in straight commissions, not selling sales training. And the way I was able to do it is because I got really good at dealing with difficult A-type prospects, handling their objections, and actually getting them across the line. So in this video, I'll be giving you 3 different role plays where I run through actually how to deal with A-type personalities and actually close them. And this is the exact skill that I taught Nathan here to get him to the point where he's making more than everyone else on his team while working less hours and how I helped Daniel go from making $5,000 in a month to $5,000 in a day. So if you pay attention and you master this, it'll make you a ton of money. Let's go ahead and dive into it.

Yeah, I had a call I had yesterday. I just wanted to like be the dude, like, that just throw in these bullshit objections and just have you go through the process. I've kind of reviewed it myself and I feel like I'd— yeah, there was some like discovery things that I definitely should have called out that would have helped a lot more with authority. And then just like it was kind of like a death by a thousand cuts, just letting these things slide. allowed him to have this behavior. And yeah, anyway, so I just want to kind of go through because it was a mixture of like 3 different objections. And yeah, I just want to kind of get your— the right way to do it.

Okay, cool. So, and then for everyone, so you're helping contractors scale their business, all that fun stuff. What was like the information on this guy? Like, where is he at? Where is he looking to go?

Why? So at the moment, it was a bit of an odd one. Like, there's these people called, um, qualifiers. So he's like fully qualified, but then there's people that like aren't fully qualified, but they use him as like, like a name on the business, and then they can just run the company. So he kind of just like is like an advisor, but then the other people run the company. He's got like 5 companies that he does that for. Um, But the reality is pretty much none of them are making money because like there was, you know, just a recent example 2 weeks ago where he went negative, had to like put personal money into the account. So he's going through like stress at home and stuff with his like wife. He's got like 3 kids under 15 or something.

Yeah.

So that's kind of— and he's doing no service. He's read the book and he's like, service is exactly like what we should be doing because there's a lot more money. He's doing like these, you know, big projects.

He's wanting to transition into a different type of business model to actually start making money because he's making none.

Cool.

Yeah.

And big cash flow issues. He's owed like $100K from all these jobs and shit.

Yeah. Could be an issue. Not ideal. Uh, it's like, okay, so the investment to go ahead and get started to make sure we can actually like get in the green, start making the money we're looking to be making is gonna be $10,000. Um, after that, the next step's pretty basic. Gets you set up with an onboarding. That way we can really get this thing all rocking and rolling and, and really structure everything out. Any questions on how that works?

Oh, $9,800. Okay. Is there a way to like just break that up like straight away? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But potentially it's gonna depend on like what works best for you, I guess. Is there any particular reason why you ask?

Yeah, it's just like, you know, $9,800 upfront, just like after just chatting for like 30 minutes, you know, like just, yeah, just like seems like, okay, you're asking a lot like straight off the bat, you know what I mean?

Yeah. Well, I mean, if we're talking for 2 hours, would that make $9,800 a different amount?

No, not really. Like, I'm sure—

Yeah, probably not. Probably not. No, I'm just messing with you, man. But if we, uh, because we could figure the money piece out, man. The money, the money is like the easiest part of this entire situation. So if we put the money aside for a second, is this something we would actually want to do?

Yeah, definitely. Probably bring it to my partners and see kind of where we're at with it.

But like, again, like, it doesn't even make much sense to like talk to your partner about this if like the number doesn't make sense and this isn't something you want to do, right? So for you, if we just put the money aside for a second, is this something you'd actually want to do?

Yeah, yeah, 100%.

Why would you do it though?

Oh yeah, I mean, like, there's the amount of money that, you know, you guys are showing in your book, in the video, that like you can be making on the services is like insane. So I'm thinking like, fuck yeah, I need to have a piece of that.

Yeah, but for you, like, because like kind of take us out of it, why would you actually want to invest in yourself and the business to make more money? Because that's a real important why.

Well, yeah, man, we were talking earlier about just reducing the stress and actually having the wife, being able to take her on vacations without worrying about the business. And that's a big part of it, right?

Yeah, absolutely, man. And I can definitely understand where you're coming from, worrying about the money or it being a lot. But can I make a suggestion around that?

Yeah, for what's up?

Yeah, because like ultimately, man, if we had the business where it needed to be, we're actually making a profit we needed to be, would you be stressed out and worried about the money?

Nah, of course not, man.

Yeah, of course not, right? Like that's why we're here. So the question I have to ask is, how are we ever going to get to the point where it's like $9,800 isn't stressful or we're not worrying about that if we never actually invest in the business? How are we gonna get there?

Yeah, I mean, it's gonna be—it's gonna take longer. Maybe it's not gonna happen.

Like, yeah, yeah. And and because how long have we been in this cycle where for you, like 9,800 is a lot of money?

Um, you know, like up and down and stuff like that, but like probably. Thinking about doing service for what, 3 years now? And okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I got to ask, do we want to change that?

Yeah, of course, man. That's why we're here.

Yeah. It's not so, it's not so obvious, right? Because we're having to have the conversation. So be real with me, man. Like what happens if we don't change it though? Because we've been in our situation for the past 3 years looking to get out of it. What if that just continues another 6 months, another year, and we don't do anything about this?

Well, you know, man, like, like, it's not gonna be too bad. Like, I got my businesses, like, still eat. Like, it's—

Well, hold on, man. There is something you could do about it. That's what we're talking about. So it's like, be real with me, because like, ultimately, us staying still and us not changing, like, that is a choice. So I do have to ask, like, what happens if we choose to just keep doing what we have done for the past 3 years? Like, what happens if we keep choosing that route?

Choose that route? Like, yeah, just like more of the same, just doing these projects but like owed money.

Some people are fine with like more of the same, man. Like, like, be real with me, man. Like, what would be the actual day-to-day ramifications for you if a year from now we're still in this exact same situation? We're stressed about the money, okay? Our wife can't go on vacations. And we're dealing with the exact same problems we're dealing with now. Like, what are the actual day-to-day ramifications of that?

Yeah, just more stress, which feels like crap, and just like hoping that I— wishing I could have done the service side.

Yeah. So I gotta ask, man, are we going to allow ourselves to continue to go down that path? Because it is a choice.

Nah, I'm not going to allow myself to do it, man. Like, I'm—

Yeah, and it's like, absolutely, man. And I'm glad we're on the same page with that because like the money is the easy part. We can figure that part out. Like, the hardest part is just committing to change, just like kind of sticking your, your flag down and saying like, hey, I'm no longer okay with this. So are you at that point where you're actually committed to change, committed to actually doing what it takes?

Yeah, 100%, man. Like, I'm definitely I'm gonna do service, like, that's for sure.

Yeah. And so when it comes to us doing service, just to see how we can actually help, right? Don't— let's not talk about what we can't do, we'll be here all day. Let's talk about what we can do. Bills, expenses aside, what are you actually working with right now that you can invest in yourself to make sure we can actually get into the service side and actually start making the money we need to be making?

Yeah, I mean, like If we could do like, if we could pay it off like over a longer period of time, like I can just do like, you know, $2K like right now and then, you know, 5, 4 more payments of $2K and we're, we're there, we're set.

Like, yeah, generally it's a little bit further than what we can do, right? But if you work with me, I can work with you. Okay. What do you actually have that is available to you that you could put towards this?

I mean, I got the money. Like the money's not an issue. It's just like, You're asking a lot, you know, like, I just, I just met you. Like, I don't know if this is actually something that's like even legit. Like, I haven't done my research, man.

Yeah. And it's like, and we can, we can figure that part out. Right. But like you're saying, we're asking for a lot, but we're also asking for a lot in terms of our outcomes. Right. Yeah, of course. Yeah. So wouldn't it make sense if we're looking for a lot in terms of outcomes, we got to put a lot in terms of our inputs?

Right. Yeah, that makes sense.

What, what we're doing here makes sense. So I have to ask, like, can you do the $9,800 and that's not gonna put you in a tough position to where it's like, hey, we're having to take the lat out of the fridge?

Yeah, well, it'd be a stretch, but I mean, like, I don't know how to— like, I feel I'd probably do like $4,000 or $5,000 and like we're not in a tough spot. Super tough.

Okay, well, here's what I could do for you, man, because like, dude, I'm not in the business of putting people out in the street, okay? So if you can do $5,000, all right, what we can do is we can split it up into 2 payments. $5,000 now, and then you're gonna come in, right? You're gonna do the work that we tell you, and then $5,000 30 days from now, okay? By then, the program should be paying for itself even in the first 30 days. Is that something you can commit to?

Yeah, like financially commit to that. I'm thinking maybe get me one of my business partners to pay for it because then maybe, you know what, maybe he just would just upfront tomorrow. Like, that could work.

Yeah, yeah, maybe. Can I share a perspective on that, man?

Yeah, sure.

Yeah, more people we add into this situation only complicates the process. Nobody is going to come and nobody is going to save us because ultimately who is responsible whether or whether or not you make money in this business and you provide for your family?

Yeah, it's my responsibility, you know, like I've always got partners, right? I've got these 5 businesses.

Yeah, it's like, and, and I, and I appreciate we have partners, but anytime we take that responsibility and then we put it outside of ourselves, now we're leaving, right, our business fate to somebody else. Okay, and on some level, isn't that why you're here? Because that's what we have been doing.

Yeah, that's right.

So how is doubling down and doing more of the same that led you here going to get us out of this situation?

It's probably not.

Right. And it's like, and I appreciate you being open about that, right? Because like the same level of thinking that got us to this situation is not going to be the same level of thinking that's going to get us out of it. So it comes down to you, like what type of person do you want to be right now? Do you want to be the person who keeps making decisions like we've always had, get the same type of decisions and same type of outcomes? Or are we going to step into the person who we truly need to be, get this business up and going, actually get profitable? So that way, dude, I never want to hear out of your mouth again that you're stressed and you're worried about things. Okay, what person would you rather be?

Yeah, obviously the second one, right?

Well, it's not so obvious. Like, why would you want to be the second one?

Then I'm not stressed about money and, you know, can actually build the business I want. And yeah.

Yeah. But it's like, and saying that out loud is easier said than done. Most people, they continue to double down on the things they've always done. Okay. So for you, like, what happens if we continue to double down on the way that we have been doing things and we never break out of this cycle of being stressed about money and being worried about just bills and what things are happening? What happens if this cycle continues?

Well, the cycle continues. I'm just gonna be more stressed and like wife's not gonna be happy. I'm not gonna be as happy and we're just gonna be stuck in the same spot.

Well, how much how much more stress do you feel like your body can take, dude? Be real with me.

What am I now? I'm forty-four. Like you know, I want to be living it up free by like sixty. Like I don't want to be working. Like much longer than that.

Yeah. So it comes down to, man, like, what do we need to do to make sure we actually get out of this cycle and we get out of that stress, we get out of that worry, and we actually get on the right path? What do we need to do?

Yeah, man, this all, this all sounds really great. Like, my biggest thing, man, is just like—

Hey, we're not talking about like what sounds great. We're talking about what we need to do. Breaking my flow, bro. Um, no, it's all good. So we're not talking about like what sounds great. We're talking about like what we need to do. So it's like, be real with me, man. Like, what do we actually need to do to make sure we get out of this situation?

Yeah, we need to get into the service and like back myself in.

Yeah. And when it comes down to it, man, right, do you feel like we're in a position where it's like, hey, we finally have had enough pain To— we're willing to do that and we're willing to break out.

Yeah, man.

Okay, so the next steps are pretty simple then. We'll go ahead, we'll process the 5, get you set up with the onboarding. And what I need from you is I need you to come in and you actually put in the work like we were talking about. So that way, in 3 months' time, we're not talking about how you're stressed and you're worried. We're talking about how are you going to pay all these taxes from all this money you're making. Is that something you're willing to do?

Look, man, I am willing to do this. Only thing I haven't done, like, I haven't, like, I haven't, I haven't looked you guys up. Like, I always check my stuff, make sure everyone's legit. Like, I haven't looked you guys up. I don't know this is legit. You know, you're in Australia. I'm in Miami over here. Like, man, you know, there's fucking scammers out there, man.

Like, this could be a load of shit.

Like, I don't know. It sounds good and I wanna do it.

Yeah. Yeah. Again, we're talking about like a load of shit. Would you see like all the different testimonials and all the reviews on all that stuff. Like, does that typically happen when, you know, uh, you're scamming people?

Probably, yeah.

Well, you, you tell me, right? In terms of, of businesses online, how long do you feel like somebody can actually scam people, especially when information is free and all it takes is one person to go to Reddit and the whole business gets their reputation ruined? Like, how, how long Do you feel like somebody can actually scam you?

Yeah, I mean, I mean, probably probably six months and then they probably go under.

Yeah, so it's like just by like math, right? Like we're already past that point in terms of our business. But let's just even say like we weren't, man. No matter what you're looking for on the internet, like you will definitely find it. There are one-star reviews of puppies out there. All right, so it just comes down to whatever you're looking for right now in this situation. All you're going to do is you're going to reconfirm the stuff you already want to see and the stuff you already want to hear. So are you looking for reasons not to do this and then give yourself an excuse, or are you actually looking for reasons to do this and bet on yourself?

Yeah, I'm looking for reasons to do this, but like—

Like, why, why are you looking for reasons to do it though?

Because I need, like, I need the service side and like, I want to get the cash going and not be fucking owed $100 grand, you know?

Yeah. And when it comes down to it, man, like on some level, we're never going to actually know until we do it. Till we actually go in, you actually start seeing the money coming in for your business. I can send you thousands of other people who are raking in the dough, but that doesn't prove that it'll work for you specifically. What's the only way you're going to know if this works for you specifically or not?

Is if I do it.

Yeah, as you do it. On some level, that, like, we have to take the leap in order to do that. So what do you feel like is actually holding you back from taking that leap and betting on yourself?

I guess just worried that, like, I could be scammed or like it couldn't work for me and Yeah. Then it's just gonna be a waste.

Yeah. If you weren't a little bit worried right now, man, that means like, I'd have to check your pulse. Like you're not human. Cuz like on some level, when you really think about it, who, who do you know who grows inside their comfort zone? Don't know anyone. Yeah, exactly. Right. So the fact that this is a bit uncomfortable, it means that we're on the right track. Cuz it means like we actually have the ability to grow. If you're cool as a cucumber, man, that means we're not talking about anything important. So this feeling you have right now, it's not going to change. It's not going to go away. All we get to do is we get to decide what we do with this feeling. Okay? Because we have 2 options. Like, number one, we can just allow it to constrict us. We keep going down the same path that we always had. And like, hey, some people do that their entire life. The second option is we shape this feeling and we shape it into taking massive action. So we put some skin in the game, we come in and we make this work. Which one would you rather do? Allow it to constrict you or shape it into taking massive action?

Yeah, shape it to take massive action.

Why? Why shape it though?

Because it's been letting— been thinking about it for, you know, 3 years and been letting it, I guess, constrict me for that long. I could— that's long enough.

Yeah. I do have to ask though, like, what if we continue to allow it to constrict us? Because most people do that their entire life.

And then nothing's gonna change and it's just gonna be more of the same shit.

Yeah, so it's like, ultimately, man, I'm here for you. I don't want you to go through the same stuff you have been that led you to this call. So what do we need to do to make sure we get out of our situation and we actually start making the money and relieve the stress?

Ah, fuck it, let's do it. I'll stop being a little bitch.

Give me all your money, bro.

Um, cool.

When other people laugh, it throws me off my groove. I'm like, oh shit. Um, so again, like, first and foremost, in terms of like, that's just basically the framework. Now, I like, I put my own little spin, or like, I make it a bit more conversational than like what's in the actual just WordTrax. But all that really was is handling money Handling I need to talk to other people or like see testimonials, and then handling like the first fury frame. That's all that was. And if you notice, like throughout the conversation, like again, I wrote it down: stress, worry, wife vacations, 3 years. So if you notice, like every single frame, I added a little bit of that in. So even though, like you guys can see the actual word tracks. Right? Like I, I said it word for word, bar for bar, but it sounds custom to you because I'm like, okay, so you no longer have to stress and worry and your wife can't go on vacation, right? It's just, I'm repeating back what you said to me. That's all it is. Yeah. Yeah. Are you, are you gonna repeat the why part every time, Christian? Every time you loop back?

Yeah.

What is that important to do that? So it's like, I'm always gonna tie in like what they want out of it. I'm always gonna tie in like what they get, what they want out of it, and what they don't want. Okay. And I'm gonna use their words. Oh, I meant asking them why, like, why is it important to you? Why would you still do it? Uh, at the beginning of objection handling? Yes. I noticed you asked it multiple times. I wonder if that's like to get their brain back into the result. Yeah. Get their brain back in the result. And then I need good leverage. Got it. That's also a big thing too. Yep. Okay, cool. Thanks. So if they're just like, oh yeah, this makes business sense, like, that's not great leverage.

Yeah, right.

It's like, yeah, you'll make more money, but why do you need to make more money? Why invest in yourself? Why invest in the business? Oh, because, uh, like, I don't want to be stressed, I don't want to worry, and I want to take my wife on vacations. Boom, dude's cooked at that point. Once I have that, there's really no getting out of it. Once you have that amount of leverage Then that's when— that's what makes all the frames actually hit.

Yeah. And then you'd constantly— because that extra why would be when you give like a binary, do you want to be like constrict or take massive action? Take massive action. Why? And then it's like you double down again on the leverage because it kind of like often a little emotion, something emotional will come up there as well.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And then you do consequence.

Yeah. And the consequence.

Consequence. Yeah.

It's hard to be the prospect. I knew I was talking so much garbage on my side. Roasted in the chat. This guy's a bitch.

Yeah. And it's like, and you gotta, like, one, one thing that makes it very, very difficult to disagree is anytime that I get a bullshit answer, I address it immediately. Okay? So anytime that you're evading, right? What made, Ian laugh was, "Hey man, we're not." I forget exactly what it was. It's like, "Hey, I'm not saying things that sound good. We're talking about what needs to be done." So like I asked a very pointed question. Like, "Hey, yeah, it all sounds good." I'm not answering your question. I'm not falling into your frame. Like immediately hard hit, re-ask. So it's like I need to cut like because what will happen oftentimes and why we'll have a hard time in objection handling is they go into autopilot mode. So we're saying like the most sick frames, but they're not actually buying in. They're not listening. So immediately, if you ever hear that type of language, it's hard pushback and then go for it again, because none of the frames matter at all if they're not actually listening to what I'm saying, if they're not contemplating what I'm saying.

Alright.

Yep. That was great. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I know you were— I think for me, it was more just like addressing the bullshit really quickly and then just like getting it back on point. I'll like dive into it like that call I had yesterday. I like would stay in a bit and then before I go back and then I'm just like, I'm off fucking frame and it's hard to get back.

Yeah. So that was good. It's like that. Yeah. Then like if we're just like having a conversation, Or it's like we're entertaining too much bullshit. That also cuts a little bit at your credibility too, right? And it like it's on some level it justifies their objection if I treat it like it's real. Yeah, right. If I allow them to be squirmy, right? Like the reason why it's very it starts to become more and more difficult for you to give objections is because I. immediately very negatively hit you with if you say any type of bullshit, right? You teach people how to talk to you every, like, every single conversation. So if I hit it very, like, hard, it's like not, not being an asshole, but it's like just very direct and cut it to the point, then I'm cutting off and it's like, it's going to be much, much harder for you to do that again.

Yeah.

And then you have to give a real answer. Then once you give a real answer, you're digging yourself more and more of a hole. Until eventually you gotta be like, ah, fuck. All right.

Yeah, Christian, this was great. You know, thanks for walking me through this. Um, I think I just need to talk to a few other companies, um, just to compare and contrast, you know what I mean? Just like any good product manager would.

Yeah, yeah, potentially. We can definitely go over what, what makes a good product manager, but, but help me understand when you talk about, uh, you know, needing to talk to other companies, I guess like what are you hoping to get out of those conversations that maybe we just didn't cover here today?

Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, it's just like you don't know what you don't know, right? It's like if you go to the store and like say you're shopping, right? Like that's a nice black t-shirt. I'm sure there's lots of different brands for black t-shirts, right? And it's like you kind of just want to explore the different black t-shirts before you ultimately make that investment, especially because this is $17K as well. Like imagine this potentially, right?

Like it, uh, it just, it just comes down to like ultimately if I spend all my time looking at black t-shirts, I'm gonna have a hard time doing a ton of other stuff, right?

Uh, yeah, yeah, I'm not I'm not gonna spend too much time though. Don't you go crazy.

So, so in terms of like talking to other companies, just to, just to see how I can best help, do we already have like actual appointments like booked, or is this something we're just gonna go out into the ether and then look around?

Um, I'm gonna look around. Like, I, I think I've seen a few more ads actually like come onto my feed. So, um, like some of them are actually coming to mind now that we speak. So I was actually thinking about like doing a little bit of research on them as well and then speak. Yeah. For, yeah.

Like, in terms of like doing the research though, right? Like, what is your deciding criteria that's going to make it to where it's like, hey, I'm gonna move forward or not move forward?

For sure. Yeah. And it's like, you obviously don't know what you don't know, right? Like, I'm not an expert in the job search process, so like, I get that, right? Um, but it's like, so what I just want to—

Deciding criteria though?

Yeah, it's just more of like a gut feeling, you know what I mean? It's like you don't really have like a deciding criteria when you walk into the mall on a black t-shirt. Like, you kind of have high level what you're looking for, but it's Like, you kind of just want to see the different blank t-shirts before.

Yeah, that could, that could be an issue, right? If we don't, if we don't quite know what we're looking for. And in terms of like you talking to companies, is there a certain number of companies you want to take a look at?

Maybe, maybe 5. What were you thinking? Like, how many do you think I should speak to?

Well, why not? Why not?

Do you think that's enough? I don't know, maybe 10. Do you think I should talk to 10?

Well, why not 2?

Well, no, because I got to keep my options open, right? I think 2. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what it comes down to, like, what's the actual reason why we're choosing 5, not 2, not 10, right? Like, what's, what's the reason we're doing that?

I mean, like, I want to get this done within a week, week's time frame. So like, whatever amount of companies I can speak to within a week.

Um, yeah, why a week? That's, you know, kind of a pretty set time there, man.

Yeah, it's like, I don't want to drag this on too long, and I'm pretty sure like a lot of you guys are Like there's going to be at this point, like there'll be a lot of similarities between the different programs. And I feel like, yeah, the 10 companies, like 2 on Monday, you're the first one. So I talked to another one today and then 2 more for the rest of the week for each of the other days. I feel like at that point, like I'll find consistencies. And then from there, it's almost like if you were to get surgery, right? Like you would talk to multiple physicians and get multiple perspectives.

Maybe. Right.

But it's like you're not going to talk to 50 surgeons.

Yeah, it depends on like, you know, where I'm going and And, and what I'm doing. But it sounds like we're just looking for clarity when it comes to making this decision, right?

Yeah, I mean, who wouldn't want clarity, Christian?

Yeah, it's like we just have to, I guess, like understand what clarity actually means, right? Because if you're going to the beach tomorrow, you never know what the weather's going to be at there till like you actually get there, right? Like we can be pretty sure with the weather app, but we're never gonna actually know for sure until we actually get there. Yeah. So in terms of even if you looked at like 100 of these What's the only way you're actually gonna know if any of these companies actually work for you or not?

Yeah, it's more of like an intuition thing. Just like—

Yeah, it's like we can have all the intuition in the world before we actually do it, but what's the only way we're gonna know if it truly works for you or not, right? Outside of just intuition.

Yeah, of course you gotta get started. You do gotta do it.

It's like we gotta do it, right? And when it comes to like, ultimately when it comes down to our time, like for example, man, like I know nothing about plumbing. Yeah, absolutely nothing. Sure, my toilet's broken, right? Yeah, it doesn't really help me to talk to 10 different plumbers because they're all going to tell me varying different things that, again, I don't even have a criteria to even know which one.

And I appreciate that perspective, right?

But it's like, how much does it cost to fix your toilet? Yeah, yeah. But when it comes down to like, ultimately, if the toilet is broken and I don't actually have a criteria to even choose the best plumber, like, does it really help me to talk to plumber after plumber after plumber if I don't really even know what I'm looking Yeah, I mean, it's not fully black and white.

Like, there is—

Does that, does that actually help me though, to talk to plumber after plumber when I don't have a criteria to look for?

Yeah, well, I guess like, and that's a good point you bring up, Christian, I guess like—

Yeah, but does it, does it help me though? Like, I'm trying to understand.

Well, I'm actually developing a criteria as I speak to more people. I'm actually developing criteria. Like, can I share an example?

You might be going to— it's like, I might have a bit of a criteria when it comes to like the plumbing, but I don't have the expertise to really know if that's the correct criteria or not the correct criteria, right? So it comes down to, for me, me talking to 10 different plumbers, does that actually help me, right? Is that the best use of my time?

Yeah, I mean, can I, can I give an example here?

Well, would that be the best use of my time?

I mean, I think so, in some capacity I think so, because it's like I learned—

You're saying like at some capacity, right? Like ultimately the amount of expertise is going to be required to actually make a decision on who the best plumber is I'm gonna have to go to plumbing school, bro. Sure, right? Of course. So when it comes down to like, ultimately, if I'm not willing to get that level of expertise— because if I was, I would just do it myself— so it comes down to ultimately, if I'm not willing to get that expertise, I can't get the expertise. Does it actually help me to hear 10 different opinions when I don't even have a criteria to make and understand like what differentiates them?

Yeah, so like even if I don't have like the full plumbing expertise—

I'm not even talking about you, man. I'm talking about me.

Does it actually help What do you mean, you specifically? I thought you were talking about plumbing.

No, no, no. What I'm talking about, like with the plumbing, if I have 10 people come over, does it actually help me to hear 10 different opinions when I don't even have the criteria to go ahead and decide on it?

I'll put it this way. Like, I learned a lot from you today that I didn't know.

Yeah, it's like it again. Like, I'm not talking about you right now.

I can only imagine, like, I can only imagine how many new things I'm going to learn if I speak to a few more people.

That's kind of potentially. But it just comes down to, like, again, I think we're avoiding the question, right? And I I think the question and the reason why we're avoiding, because it does show a bit of a gap, right, in our decision right now. So it's like, be real with me, man. Like, and I'm trying to be as nice about it as I can be, but I like, I want to help you, but I can only help you if you're open. Okay.

Okay. I'm open.

So does it, does it actually help me? Yeah. That I have no criteria to look at. I don't know what's going to differentiate them to hear 10 different opinions about how we unclog my toilet.

I guess let me ask you, right? Like in this case—

Timeout real quick, right? Does it actually help me though?

In plumbing? No. In plumbing? No.

Okay. Why? Why doesn't it help me though?

Well, it's like there's not a lot of risk if it's $200, like to fix the toilet.

It comes down to even if it's going to take $10,000 to fix it, does that actually change? Does it help me? Is again, because when it gets more complex, does my lack of knowledge Yeah. Increase or does it decrease? Like, I know less about the plumbing when it gets more complex. You know what I mean? So it's like the criteria, the problem only gets worse the more complex we get. So why don't you feel like it actually— why do you feel like it doesn't help me given the fact that it's like, hey, I don't have the expertise to just hear a bunch of different opinions on it. Why don't you feel it helps me?

Well, what I'm saying though is that like I learned new things.

But why doesn't— why don't you feel it helps me though?

I get where you're coming from, right?

I'm not coming from anywhere. I'm just trying to understand. Yeah, be real with me. Like, why don't you feel like it actually helps me?

No, I'm not fully an expert.

No, no, like, we're not even talking about you right now. We're talking about me and my plumbing situation. Why don't you feel like it helps me?

Well, you're not like an expert in plumbing fully, right? So it's like, everyone is gonna like Sound good to you. Um, yeah, yeah.

And then, then like the only thing at that point, right, the only thing at that point, we're really, uh, it sounds logical and sometimes it doesn't. Yeah, but really at that point, right, if the first person I talk to, if it makes sense, I know they can do the job, right, it would be better for me just to move forward with them because the one thing I cannot get back is going to be time in this situation.

Yeah, right. So just what if I do someone tomorrow who can do the same exact job, um, for like $13,000 instead of $17,000?

Yeah, well, well, that's where again, how are you ever going to know they can do the same exact job?

Until you actually get started. But it's like, if I feel like—

So it comes down to like, it comes down to ultimately, right, if they could do the same exact job that we have Yeah. With the Sam and Jack track record that we have. Yeah. Why would they charge you so little?

Well, I could say it the other way around, which is like, why are you trying to take more?

Well, it comes down to why, why do you feel like people are willing to pay us what we are asking for? Why do you feel like we've had all these clients that are willing to pay what we ask?

Because you get results.

Yeah. So it just comes down to like, ultimately, man, like the market will tell you what it's worth. So if we're looking for something that ultimately is just going to be like less expensive, right? The reason why they charge less is because they have to charge less because people are not willing to pay more for it. Because if they could charge what we charge, do you feel like they would?

Sure. But like going to the black t-shirt analogy, right? There's like, there's black t-shirts that can go for $150. Like if it has the word, the sign LV on it, Louis Vuitton, or they could charge you a grand for that. But it's like, you know, you can get a black t-shirt for less, so you're not going to pay it.

Yeah, well, it's like, and again, you can get it for less, but then we're talking about the less when it comes to the quality as well. So for you, when we're talking about you getting into a higher paying job, are you looking for something that is more cheap? Right, that we can just see what can happen? Or are we looking for something that'll actually get the job done and has a proven track record to get there?

Oh, for sure. Obviously the latter, right?

But why is it so obvious? We're having to have the conversation.

No, no, because I'm saying, like, with the Louis Vuitton, it's like people will look at that and say, like—

Well, take, take, take Louis Vuitton out of it because again, like, analogies can only go so far, right? So for you, like, ultimately, why do you want something that, you know, has a track record and will work for you rather than just going with the cheap option?

Well, I feel like something cheaper could also have a proven track record.

Yeah, but again, if it has a proven track record and gets the results that we get, right? Like the market tells us, maybe people are willing to pay the price for us. Why would the cheaper option, if they do the exact same thing we do, why wouldn't they charge more?

I mean, maybe are these people just altruistic? Yeah, yeah, maybe they're not as greedy, you know what I mean?

Like maybe they're not as like You know, comes down to as well, right? Like, like ultimately, right, with the, with the amount of people we have working full-time, dude, we could not charge less than what we do, right? So if you're going to find somebody who does charge less, it's just going to come down to, do you feel like they would be able to support the amount of full-time people that we have?

I mean, probably not, but I also don't know if you're making— yeah, so then I don't know, I don't know what your profit margins are.

Well, when it comes down to it, man, it's like we're not going to open up the books for you, but like on some level we're going to have to take a little bit of a leap of faith. Yeah, right. So if you're over there and you're going to be super skeptical about everything and take that viewpoint on everything, like there's no way we're going to get anything moving, right? We're never going to make any decision at that point. So it just comes down to like ultimately, right? Because it sounds like the biggest holdup right now is like we're just looking for a cheaper price. So it sounds like, yeah, we just put like the money aside for the same value, for the same value. Yeah, but then it's like, again, like, how do we know it's the same value until we get started, right? Like, what we're searching for, something it doesn't exist. So like, that, that's a bit of the issue here. But it's like, we can figure out the money part. The money is the easy part. But if we just put the money aside for a second, is this something we would actually want to go ahead and do?

Yeah, no, money aside, I like the process.

Yeah, why would we do it though?

Well, because like I said, you guys have a proven process. I like the structure.

Yeah, but like, why, why actually invest in yourself to make sure you get into a higher paying job and we actually get the career we need.

Yeah, I mean, like, I got a young daughter and everything, and so like, I gotta— I want to provide for her. So yeah.

And, and can I make a suggestion, Nick?

Okay.

Right, like, right now we're looking at this and $17,000 is a lot because of what we're making. Yeah. But if you're at the point where you're making $500,000 per year, you're in a better job, you're in a better position, Would $17,000 be as big in your head as it is right now?

No, it wouldn't. I mean, it'd still be a lot of money. It wouldn't be as—

Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's not going to be as big. So it's like the real problem is we don't actually have the job. Okay. So the question I really have to ask, man, is do you actually want to change that and solve that problem?

Yeah, I do. I do.

Okay. But how are we ever going to change that unless we get the real help that we need to actually get to a point where it's like we're actually making the type of money we need to be making?

Yeah, I mean, I agree.

Yeah, we have to get that. How are we ever going to do that?

Like, we're not going to be able to do it.

That's what it comes down to.

So I gotta ask, like, what happens if we continue down the same track we have been, right? We keep doing what we have been, we're still stuck in the same job that we're at, and we never actually start making the money we truly want to be making. Like, what happens then?

I mean, obviously, like, the life that I want to have for my daughter that doesn't get to happen. Um, and yeah, yeah, basically.

So are you willing to allow that to happen? Because ultimately it is a choice.

Ideally, no. Ideally, I don't want it to happen. Yeah.

Well, it's, it's a yes or no.

Okay, obviously, like, yes, I don't want to allow it to happen. So no, I'm not.

So it's like, so because like the, like the hardest part of this entire conversation is just committing to actually changing. Right? The biggest problem people have, especially in your situation, they have the gold handcuffs on, and it's just comfortable enough that they don't do anything about this. So are you actually in a position right now to where you're committed to make a change and committed to do whatever it takes? Yeah, I'm committed. I'm committed. So if you're committed, man, like, I'm in your corner, but don't tell me what you can't do. We'll be here all day. Let's talk about what we can do to actually make this change. So bills, expenses aside, like, what are you actually currently working with right now that you can invest in yourself to make sure we get out of our situation?

Okay. Can we do half now and half in a month?

Yeah, I'll do that.

So I have a question for you, like, as a buyer, right? As a consumer. Because here's the thing, like, sometimes, like, it feels logical where it's like, If you got on a call and some shit was, um, fucking 20 grand, bro, like, are you gonna buy on the first call? Are you gonna like listen, like get a few more options, bro?

Come on. Oh, it's like, okay, so I'm talking about you specifically as a buyer. You specifically? Me specifically? Yeah, I strong arm setters and closers to not hop on calls and send me the fucking link. Personally, of like the last few things I've bought. So it comes down to the amount of information that is out there. Like let's just say, for example, okay, the amount of information that is out there, like on your company, what you guys do, is there enough that they don't even need to hop on a sales call?

Probably, yeah.

Yeah, they technically could. And like legitimately, they could spend a night. Going over that shit, spend two to three hours going over it. Like okay, this seems logical enough. It makes sense. They have good results. They have a good track record. Right? Like so there's enough information there. Also as well, when we're talking about it, it's like so it's like so just so you get in your head, like there is enough information there. Like that's number one. Number two, this belief that they need to drag this out. They need to go through all these different things, all these different hoops, and not take action. Number one, yes, it hurts someone moving forward for this call. But does that belief, if they carry it over everywhere in their life, like ultimately if they're wanting to get to the highest point in their career, does that belief actually help them? Right? Being overly analytical and not taking risk.

But it's like it's a spectrum though. Yeah, just with anything. At 17, okay, maybe at 17, there's got to be some things Like, let's say it's like a fucking $50,000 purchase. Like, and money is relative, right? So like $50,000 to one person can be expensive, another person can be inexpensive. But it's like there's got to be some price point where you're like, okay, let me actually think about this for a second. Let me actually like really think about this. Like, for example, like when I was on the call with you, like say you said like to work with you it'll be $20K. Like, even though I like to take action on shit, I'd be like, holy shit, let me actually think about that for a second because I don't know if that's actually going to work out for me.

Yeah, well, okay, so there's a couple different things, right? So it's like, number one, the money for the value, right? So that's, that's a, that's a different thing. So like, for example, like, let's just say like, hey, at $8,000 it makes it a no-brainer, but at $20,000, like, I don't know if the value's there. Right, in terms of like the upside. Then at that point, like the value doesn't make sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So it's like if the people you're talking to, like $17,000, like the value makes sense, then at that point it's just about like, you know, getting them to take action. So there's a difference. So let's say what you're charging costs $100,000, but they're only gonna get like, you know, a $50K up bump from whatever it is. It's like, okay, at that point, like the value doesn't make sense. So it's not like, oh, I need to think about it. It's like, oh, actually that's too expensive. The value doesn't make sense. So there's a very clear delineation there. Does it make sense? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

No, I get that part. I get that part. Okay. Okay. Even still, like, you still don't think about things sometimes?

Like, you still don't want to speak to people? I think about it, right? Like, I'm not like not— I don't not think about things, right? It's just like once you go ahead and you decide like, hey, I know this person will help me, Right. The best— because it's like, like, let's just talk about like education programs, coaching, anything along those lines. The best way to actually get the result is just to fucking go all in. Like, on some level, it's like, yeah, there are shitty programs out there, but I would hope you guys could like see that, right? On some level, if like, if you're taught, if you are seeing somebody who's good at what they do, they have a good track record, the likelihood if you just follow what they tell you, they'll get your results fairly high. Okay, at least in my head, it's all about an action-taking process. So it just comes down to, it's like, hey, I found it, it makes sense, I can see myself being in the program, getting coaching, whatever it would be, I need to go ahead and like take action to go ahead and do this. So, um, when you're talking about like maybe like, for example, with like the facility offer that I'm on, right, it's like sometimes, uh, for example there does actually need to be multiple people there. Like, uh, they need to put their house up for collateral. The wife's name is on the actual, you know, is on the mortgage, right? Like, I need the wife's sign-off, bro, right? So there's some things where it's like logistically we need to see if it's viable, if it makes sense, if we can do it. But once all those boxes are ticked, then at that point all you're doing is you're putting distance in between you and actually doing the things that are required. So it's like, yeah, you're doing your due diligence, but the amount of due diligence that is required I would say, especially for the people you talk to, they're going to overvalue it.

Wait, sorry, I didn't follow that.

They're going to overvalue the amount of due diligence and the amount of risk-taking that is required to ultimately be successful. Because when you're thinking about like the top, top people in any walk of life, it's the people who are more geared towards the risk-taking, right? Doesn't mean they do it like stupidly, right? But they do take calculated risk. And getting out of that calculated risk, it's like people think like, oh, if I just talk to more people, if I spend more time, the, the risk makes more sense or the risk goes away. Like, it literally doesn't. Like, for example, like, I'm about to join your program. Okay, I move forward the exact same day versus I move forward after I talk to 100 people. Do I actually get different results?

Well, like, so like, for example, like on my calls, genuinely people are like, oh shit, like this is something new I didn't know that I needed. Um, like this is a really cool value add that will help me in my job search. And so like, I feel like a logistical Reason to hop on another call could be like, maybe I learned something new even beyond this. So like your company has— yeah, but it comes down to like, I could have what, 4 pillars? You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. But it's like knowledge is worthless without execution. So why would you choose something that sounds good rather than the execution behind it gets you the results? Okay, you know what I'm saying?

No, I'm not following totally. Like, are you basically saying like you have to, you have to do it to, you have to get started to know?

Well, first of all, you have to do it to know you get results. But second of all, the idea, it sounding cool or like, oh, that seems like it's really helpful, ultimately is meaningless unless they execute on it. Okay, so it comes down to, let's say they talk to another program and it's like The— they hear other things that sounds cool. How do they actually know any of those are gonna work? It just sounds cool. And like, ultimately, ideas and what sounds cool doesn't matter. The execution and results is what matters, right? Ideas are a dime a dozen, right? Like, packaging things up and making it sound cool, it's a dime a dozen. Execution and getting results, that's what matters.

Right. Okay. Okay. So essentially you're saying like there could be different companies that have different mechanisms, different features, but it's like, yeah, it all just comes down to like the fucking result. And if we're all saying that we can get you the result, the only way to actually know is to do it.

If you do it. Yeah. Because then at that point, like once you're like, you drill down into it and you start poking holes, you realize with those people, because it's like It's not the you gotta like that's not a real objection. They're looking for something else. So in that role play, for example, looking for something was cheaper. Well, it's like well seventeen thousand if I can get the same value. You know what I mean? It's like okay. So now I need to pull coals in. Well, dude, if they can give you the same value, same results, they would charge what we're charging, right? We're like, we're all in business, we don't run charities out here. You get what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it's like, then I address like, hey, the main issue is actually the money, right? But before I went into the money, I kind of need to tie off a bit of like the value stuff first. Um, but you understand like there's something that's underlying the actual objection. Now that's very different versus like you will get some people who say, well, I always make decisions this way, but then we go into the decision-making reframe stuff.

Wait, so to challenge you on that, right? Like, if they could get you the result as good as we could, then they would be charging a higher price. What if I said, okay, well, then let me go find someone who's more expensive than you?

I mean, again, it's always going to be a middle ground, right, with everything. So it's like finding the ultimate Goldilocks zone, basically. So it comes down to how are you going to know if any of these options, right, if we're purely just going off of price, Right. Or purely just going off of what we feel like would work, but we don't have the criteria. How are you ever gonna make a sound decision?

So I basically just wanna speak to some people within the program.

Yeah. And it's like, yeah, we can maybe do that. Um, just so you understand, like nobody's in any obligation to like communicate with like anybody who's like, like talking to us. 'Cause I'm sure like, hey, if, if you come into the program, like we, we get you a super booming job, you really love it. You're gonna be busy with that. You're busy with family. You don't want to talk to 100 people a week that, you know, try to sell our program for us, do you?

Yeah, I get that. But it's like, man, okay, why do you—

why do you—

why do you get that though? Yeah, I mean, like, I, I hear you. Like, I, I guess—

okay, but, but yeah, why do you hear what I'm saying? Does that actually make sense of like why we don't require them to, you know, talk to hundreds of people per day?

Because No, for sure. But I'm sure like you could find one person that would be open to speaking with me, right?

Yeah. I mean, again, I'm sure we, we maybe could, but again, like there are no obligation to just like when you come to us, like you're not on the hook to then start selling our service for us. I get it. It just comes down to it for you just so I can see how best I can help. Like, what are you hoping to maybe hear from them that maybe we just didn't cover here today?

Yeah, yeah. I always like to hear just like what their experience was in the program. Yeah, obviously, right? Like, I know you have good intentions, Christian. Like, I don't want to challenge that, but it's like there is slightly a conflict of interest here, right?

Yeah. And when you mention like a conflict of interest, right? Like, it's interesting because if I send you somebody, right? Like, I am, I'm fully transparent. I do have a conflict of interest. I think our program works. It's pretty great. Sure. If I send you somebody, am I going to send you somebody who thinks the same thing or thinks something different?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I appreciate that perspective, right?

But it's like, am I gonna send you somebody who like got really great results and has— yeah, yeah, no, for sure. Yeah, exactly right. So on some level, you, you already know what that conversation is gonna be like. You know I'm gonna send somebody who has good things to say. So at that point, like, again, we're just putting time and distance in between us and getting to our goal. So for you, like, let's actually Yeah, like, what's going on, man?

Yeah, so it's like, it's not more so black and white about like, did they get the result or did they not get the result? Like, I know you're going to send me someone that obviously like got the result, right? They landed the job through your help. My concern more so, just like, I just want to know what their experience was like on a day-to-day, right? It's kind of like someone who graduates from university and it's like, yeah, they could have gotten a wonderful job out of university, But like, you just want to know, like, what was their experience with the coaches inside the program, the client success managers? Um, I'm just trying to get a feel for that more so. And like, just so I know, like, what to expect. They can, cause I'm sure like not everything was positive. Um, and so it's like, I'm not even just looking for negatives. It's more so just to get a holistic understanding here.

Well, just, just with anything, right? Like ultimately when we're talking about like subjective experiences, like those are going to be different for everybody.

Oh, for sure.

But if, if somebody came into the program and we told them to do rain dances on their roof, but that got them the job, ultimately, does it really matter if it got them the result that they wanted?

I mean, to me it does. The experience matters, right? Because it's like, it's like the same thing with university, right? There's plenty of universities that can get the outcome of a job, but people have different experiences depending on the university. And so it's like, yeah, I don't know if Even though PCA could like get me the outcome and based off of the testimonials and like the results that you've shown me, like I'm sure I could land the role with you guys. Like that's not my concern. It's more so like the actual experience. What is the customer or client experience like? And so I wanna know like that compared to like other programs, you know?

Yeah, 'cause when it comes down to like the experience, right? 'Cause like your experiences, like just objectively speaking, it's gonna be different from everyone else's experiences.

Oh, for sure.

'Cause they're not gonna be you.

Yeah, yeah, but there's trends, you know what I mean?

Yeah, on some level, like, ultimately, like, we're not going to know until, like, we actually get in. Yeah, I would say, like, the biggest thing that we really need to focus on is can it actually get the outcome or not get the outcome? Because people go to Harvard not because, you know, the campus looks nice, but because of what you get out of it once you have a Harvard degree, right?

I mean, I don't know, I don't know if it's that black and white though, like $17K, I know we talked about this as well, right? Like, it's a bit of a stretch for me. I'm only making about like $120K a year. And so like, this is ultimately a sacrifice. The outcome is important to me. Like, we're in alignment on that, but I just want to understand like, what is the actual client experience like within the program?

Yeah. And again, I can send you tons of screenshots about people having an amazing experience and send you a ton of people who had an amazing experience. Again, like ultimately, That doesn't mean that you're going to have an amazing experience. On some level, we're going to have to take a little bit of the leap of faith because what's the only way that you're going to know if this actually works for you specifically or not? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's not even more so like amazing, not amazing.

It's just like, what is it? Like, that's what I'm looking for.

Just like, what is it? And again, forget, forget, I can sense you, right? And I can send you a ton of stuff. Uh, yeah, yeah. And I could send you a ton of stuff like going over like all of that again. And I can go more in detail on this call too of exactly— I can show you into the program and all that stuff. But again, what's the only way we're gonna know if it actually works for us or not? We're gonna have a good experience in the program or not? What's the only way we're gonna actually be able to know that stuff?

Yeah, I just want to make an informed decision, you know?

Yeah, but what's the only way we're going to be able to actually know and make that informed decision?

Obviously starting.

Yeah, like doing it, right? It's like, that's the only way we're gonna know that this actually works for us or not. Yeah. And if I show you 1,000 people had an amazing experience, that doesn't mean you're gonna have an amazing experience. The only way we're gonna know is if we actually like dive in and do it and we bet on ourselves. Yeah, right. So for you, what do you feel like is really holding you back from actually just like betting on yourself and diving in if we feel like this would get you the result?

I mean, because the ticket price is so high, like, I just want to make sure I can make the most—

Well, take that, take the price out of it for a second, because like the price is the easiest part of this entire situation. Okay.

Not for me though.

Well, what I'm saying, just like in general, like we can figure that part out. Like it's, there's tons of different options. If we just took like the money aside for a second, is this something you would actually want to go ahead and do?

Yeah, yeah. Money aside, money aside, I do think—

Why would you want to do it though?

Like, I think this can get me to the outcome that I'm looking for. I think you guys can help me with this role.

But for you, right? Because like, you know, thinking we can help, that's one thing, but why would you actually invest in yourself to get the outcome? Like, that's the important why we need to pay attention to.

I mean, obviously, right? Like, as we discussed, this role is going to facilitate new opportunities for me and my family. And so Okay.

Yeah, getting that help. Yeah. Well, what's that? What's the biggest new opportunity that you feel like, you know, a new, a new role, higher paying role would actually get you? Just so we're on the same page.

Yeah, I mean, definitely funding the kids' college and stuff like that. Um, you know, I got 2 kids who are freshmen in high school. And so, yeah, as we discussed, right, higher paying role. Yeah, like we get all that.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And can I, can I share a perspective around that?

Yeah, sure.

Because like ultimately right now, $17,000 like being a lot of money, is that a problem or a symptom of a bigger problem?

Well, it's, it's definitely the symptom.

Yeah, because if we're at a position where we're making $250,000, $300,000, $500,000, right, like $17,000 wouldn't be that much or as much money when we're making $120,000, right? Would you agree with that?

Oh yeah, I would agree.

So I have to ask, do you want that to continue to be a lot of money for you, or do you want to change that?

Yeah, ideally, ideally I don't want it to be a lot of money for me in the future.

Yeah, because it comes down to like, how long have we been in this situation where it has been a lot of money for us? Quite some time. Quite some time.

How long? Yeah, yeah, uh, a long time. Years.

Okay. So I have to ask, what happens if we never invest in ourselves to get out of that situation and this continues for longer? For next year, 5 years from now, 10 years from now? What happens if we never get out of this situation?

Yeah, then, then the goals that I want, they don't get accomplished.

And some people fall short of their goals all the time. They're fine with it. Like, be real with me, man. Like, what's actual day-to-day impact a year from now? If we're not able to pay for the things we want to pay for, make sure the kids are taken care of, like what actually happens?

Yeah, well, like, I don't want to let my, my kids down. Like, I really— it's important that I fund their college and everything.

Yeah. And you being able to do that ultimately is a choice. Okay. So do you feel like you're in a position now to where you're willing to do whatever it takes to choose to get into a higher paying role so we can do all the things we need to do?

Yeah, I think I'm willing. I think I'm willing.

Because if you're willing, man, it's like, hey, the money, we can figure that part out. It just is going to depend based on what you are actually working with. Okay, so bills, expenses aside, what are you actually working with that you can invest in yourself that's not going to put you in tough spots, not going to throw you out on the street, so that way we can actually get you in that higher paying job?

Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah, that was good. That was good. So like, was your thought process trying to get away from the whole like weeds?

Yeah, it's not important. Like, here's the thing.

Because I noticed you trying to pull me away from that and just get to the bigger picture.

Well, if you're— yeah, because that's what it is. Like, understand that is not a real objection. It is a smokescreen objection.

That just is the case. Interesting thing. Like, I know they say like the way you handle objections is like ultimately like a reflection of your beliefs? Because someone did hit me with— because I, I responded to them and I was like, well, do you think like they're gonna say positive or negative things about us? And then he was like, well, it's not about that, like it being black or white. Like, I want to know what was their experience like. And in my head I was like, you know what, fair enough. That does seem—

Why does that matter?

Because it's like, if he's going to spend 15 grand or 17 grand, like To just hear like what someone's experience was like, that to me is logical.

Okay, you're—they're not paying fifteen thousand dollars to get good fee fees; they're paying fifteen thousand dollars to get a higher paying job, right? So if they join the program and you tell them to do rain dances on their fucking roof every single day, and that was able to triple their income. Does it fucking matter? Like, ultimately?

Yeah, ultimately, realistically, it doesn't. It is true.

Yeah, like, it doesn't matter, right? Like, the experience, the mech— like, the mechanism, ultimately, it doesn't matter. The outcome is the biggest thing that actually matters. Okay? It's like, because that's what they want. And it's like, ultimately, them knowing what other people— because it's like, first and foremost, when you're talking about subjective feelings, Just so you can understand this conceptually. Yeah. When you explain things subjectively, how you feel, I might relate to that, but I've never been inside your body. I have no fucking clue what that means to you. Okay.

Yeah. Like I really— I see that, Justin. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's like I have no clue. Like let's just say like you had a good time, like your definition of a good time and my definition of a good time, 2 wildly different things. So for sure. What you think is good and like happiness, like these are all Like so subjective that ultimately on some level they can be like, they're a bit meaningless on some level. Right. And let's just say you had a terrible time, but we 10x your income. Like, did it actually matter?

Yeah. The way he framed it though, like, and also too, like the way like his tonality came across, it didn't feel like a smokescreen. It felt genuine of like, hey, like, I do want to ask.

When I say it's— when I say it's a smokescreen, yeah, what I'm saying is it's not that they're not being genuine. It's like, that's not the heart of the issue. Because would they need to know somebody's subjective experience if it was half the price? Probably not. Yeah. So the real issue is the money. Yeah. And it's like— and then it's And it's like, it's the, the real issue is their money and their view of money and their view of how they have to make decisions when they are dealing with that type of money. So it's like, for him, like, let's just say, like, if he was legitimately making $120,000 a year, um, $15,000 is like, oh, I need to do these things to justify it for myself of spending $15,000, right? That's what's happening. But ultimately It's like he doesn't need to do these things. Like, this is a box he's putting on himself, a box he's putting himself in that is not required, right?

Yeah.

So he's putting extra restrictions on himself just because he's never done something before. And then that's your job to show him like, hey bro, you're putting yourself in a box that actually doesn't make sense. Like, at the top of his head it makes sense, right? Because he hasn't thought deeply about this. But you walk him through that thought process Right? You push him, you show him like, hey, ultimately this doesn't mean anything. The real issue is the money. And then once you're on the money, that's when you really dial things up, right? And you just smack them around, get them across the line. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. All right.

Thanks, man.

Okay. Yeah. Is there anything like— okay, because I like— yes, on some level this does need to make sense in your mind too. Yeah, no, no, no. So it does through that process.

It does. It does. Like, my only thing though is that like, and again, there's no disrespect to any Indians on the call or anything, but like, because their frame is so strong, like what they have a habit of doing, even when you ask intelligent questions that will logically make sense, they have a habit of just completely avoiding the question and just holding down to their frame.

Yeah, that's why you need to really push back, hammer hard. Okay, like, that's the thing. So if you notice, like, again, through, like, during the roleplay, like, there's times where both of us were, like, speaking for, like, 15 seconds.

But the thing is, I was trying to implement what they do a little bit, which is just like, you'll ask a really intelligent question that if they answer, they will be falling into your frame, and they know that. And so they just intentionally just avoid the question completely.

Yeah. So if you notice, I am not going to stop talking. Period. I noticed you did. Okay, so it's like I'm not giving— I'm not giving you the ground, bro.

Yeah, but their frame is fucking strong as well though, and like it can get to almost like a borderline shouting match. Yeah, well, it's like ideally have any sort of like gauge of what like uncomfortable— uncomfortability means. Like they will just continue Going like a fucking train at 1,000 miles an hour.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There are going to be a bit of like cultural differences with that, but like again, like in objection handling now, on some level, you in discovery, you need to be able to earn that. So when I'm going into objection handling, like I have the leverage, I've built the authority, right? And they fall more into my frame, so it makes it a lot easier. So we don't want to just like start off with objection handling, like really ratcheting up and smacking these fuckers around. We, we do that in, uh, discovery first. Okay. Um, so it's like just with anything is you, you teach people how to treat you. Okay. You teach people how to go about the conversation. So if you've allowed them in the conversation either to evade questions or anything like that in discovery, it will bite you in the ass in objection handling.

Yeah.

Okay. So that's something to just always keep in mind too.

Yeah. Okay. Thank you, man. Appreciate it.

Yeah. And, and again, when we're talking about not believing them, it's like, yeah, they might believe it themselves and that's fine. But the real problem is, is the money they make, how they view money, and like being able to make a decision. Because when you're thinking about it logically, They want to jump through all these fucking hoops, but if they're making 5 times the amount of money they're making right now, would they feel required to do the exact same thing?

They wouldn't. They wouldn't.

So it's a, it's a money thing. It's the amount of money and it's the money they're making. That's what the real problem is that then tells them, oh, I should do all these things. So if you, you sit there and it's like, you, you try to handle all these different things, right? And it's like, dude, like they'll tell you some wild shit that you've never heard before. Right? So it's like, it's not really about knowing how to handle all these different things. And like, you know, it's just about like being able to push them to the side and get to the real heart of it. And if you notice, like in the conversation, like I immediately, like I push it to the side, I push you into like, hey, how are we actually gonna know?

Yeah.

What's really holding you back? I always get to that point. Like, that's really all I'm getting to. So it's like, I don't need to know all these different frames. Yeah, I just need to know how do I funnel all these different objections into the 2 to 3 things that I handle really, really well. And then once you're in, you're not getting out.

You're good at having a demeanor of like, none of that shit matters. This is what it's really about. And just focusing on that.

Yeah. And then as soon as you buy into it, like, dude, you're fucking trapped.

Yeah. Yeah.

Right? Because then you like— and then that's all we're talking about. So then it's like, if I push you into this other objection, Get you to buy in. That's the real, the actual objection, and then I handle that objection.

Then you're cooked. Yeah, yeah, and then it becomes objection whack-a-mole as well. Like, yeah, they just do that. They'll keep bullshit at you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think about it like you know hurdling, bro. Like they'll keep on just putting hurdles in front of you. Like you'll fucking like jump over them, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that that's how you know. Like those objections. aren't actually the real thing. Yeah, right. Just so you know it, right? It's like when you handle it, like the reason you know it's not the real thing, you handle it, then there's another one, there's another, another, another, which means we're not actually getting to the core issue. It's like you're allowing them to kind of just like, uh, just throw weird smokescreen at you. It's like, no, push the smokescreens to the side, get to the actual heart of the matter, which is either money, time, or value. That's it.

Yeah, yeah.