this closer lost a $40K deal so I showed him what went wrong

If you want to get better at sales, the best way to do that is to actually review your sales calls and get feedback on real-life sales calls, not theory. Today, since I've been focusing on how do you sell higher-ticket items, I got Nathan here. We're going to review one of his calls where he is selling a $40,000 package. We're going to dive into the nitty-gritty stuff. Nathan has been in my mastermind for a while. He was stuck on a lower-ticket offer, now on a higher-ticket offer. So we're going to be dialing in to make sure we can sell a lot more, make a lot more, and start crushing back more deals. Just for everyone, just kind of a high-level level overview. We're not going to go super in-depth on what the actual offer is, but what are you selling and what are the type of people you're selling to?

Yeah, so it's a done-for-you AI business, right? Where people, they typically purchase a package from us where it's $20K to $60K. The types of people that I talk to are typically busy business owners or people who want to start a business but don't really know how. So they want like more of a done-for-you thing.

Generally speaking, people who are more successful in a career, they have some money, they want to buy a business. So that way they don't have to be so reliant on their job.

Okay.

So it still is a biz op, but it's a biz op to rich people, which is going to be better.

What's up, Jeremy? Dale, I'm wearing the same shirt. I see this.

Rib.

Yeah, there should be—

I'm on my phone right now.

So trying to—

I need to text you the link.

Like just kind of joining. I'm letting both of the Jeremys join.

Let's skip through a little bit.

It's my fault, I should have just asked that directly. No, it's all good.

I know it's sent to via email, but I could resend it, not an issue.

It is, I've got it, it's pulling up here.

Oh, you got it?

Okay, perfect. Yeah, I'm hopped on. Switch over.

Lots of fun stuff.

When he joins back.

You hear me okay? It's not like laggy or something?

No, no, it's good.

Okay, I don't know if it's delayed or not, that's my only thing.

You said you're over in Oaxaca?

Yes.

Nice, nice.

Over here in the Sunshine State.

Yeah, I will say having a cool background behind you looking like you have money, a little bit of a cheat code, right? Hell yeah, bro.

Yeah, you ever like downtown Tampa?

Yeah, have you ever been to Tampa?

Uh, yeah, I grew up in Orlando. Oh no way, 6 years.

Yeah, so well, there's like, um, they have like the new place of Tampa, that's like the old Tampa, like you probably see those buildings. Uh, maybe not, the Zoom's kind of making it look like one thing.

Wall and Water Street.

Yeah, exactly, on Water Street. That's right.

I don't know that area well.

I want to get too bogged down in this, but he kind of invited it, so it's fine.

Yeah, amazing, man.

Dude, yeah, you got Ric Flair that hangs out at, uh, yeah, he lives at the Heron up here. Yeah, yeah, hangs out at American Social and a couple of spots.

Yep, the legend. I always see him walking around. Yeah, he's always got like 2, 3 girls with him.

He's a little crazy, a little crazy, guys. Yeah.

Amazing, man. Dude, enough of a replay. Let's hop in, man. So in regards to, um, like AI, right? Because I know you spoke to Jake. Was he able to send you over any content to review prior to this?

I don't think so. I was—

I said, okay, so it's like, first and foremost, we got to be much more aware of what has been sent and what has been seen.

Okay.

Okay. So especially when we're talking about like, hey, like, I expect this guy to give me $40,000, right? Every part of the process matters more. Okay. So if somebody is coming in, there needs to be a clear understanding that I know exactly what you guys have talked about. I know, like, I have everything down. Now that we don't really change too much about like the structure and how we're going to go about it. Like generally speaking, I'm like, hey, I know you had a chat with so-and-so yesterday. He gave me a high-level overview of just like what was going on, but you know, things get lost in translation. So help me understand. And then boom, like I'm into it. Okay. Or if you want to see if they've actually reviewed the stuff. Now, again, we talked about this on the coaching call on Friday, but there needs to be a process to make sure that you are getting them to see it. There's some type of interaction either through text, voice note, email, whatever it would be that like, hey, you've— you have access to this, you can see it, you can go through it at the very least. So that way when they show up, you're like, hey man, what do you think about the information I sent over?

Right?

Like, where are your takeaways? And then, because if they say, oh, I haven't gone through it, you can kind of jokingly like, dude, what are we going to do with you? Like, now, like, you know what I mean? Like, I can at least hold his feet to the fire a bit. Now, we don't want to go too, too much, especially earlier on in the conversation. But it's something to keep in mind.

Okay.

So the very beginning of the conversation, we just want to come across like, hey, the company is a well-oiled machine.

Okay, all good. I'll just give you like a quick overview, just like— would that be helpful if I gave a quick overview just on how it works? Yep, perfect, man. So really what we do, right, like why investors come to us is because we build and operate a cash-flowing business for you in 90 days, right? So we handle everything from the sales, marketing, client fulfillment, while you actually own the business, the revenue, and the clients. So typically our clients, they'll only spend around 3 to 5 hours a week just kind of overseeing the business without actually being responsible for, you know, running anything themselves. So yeah, based on the past 100 clients that we worked with, our average client generates around $20K a month in revenue or about $250 grand a year. I'll definitely get more into detail as far as like our ROI guarantee, all that stuff. But is that kind of like aligned with what you were looking for?

Now, something to always be aware of, if you're talking about numbers, be careful about being ambiguous.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Meaning like not, like they don't make about, they make this.

Got it.

Got it.

It's a small thing, but just understand anytime that you bring ambiguous language into the conversation, you are bringing doubt. Now, this is very, very early on into the conversation. So it's like, I can understand when you're thinking like, hey, don't be too forward. But when you are talking about what you do, we want to be certain and we don't want to be ambiguous.

Got it.

Because we can just cause a bit of doubt that just doesn't need to be there. So at the very worst, it causes doubt, but it doesn't— there's no benefit. There's absolutely going to be no benefit to the ambiguous language.

Exactly.

So potential downside, no benefit, just take it out.

Okay.

Not to say like this guy is going to care about it at all, but just so you can understand it like conceptually.

Yeah. Yeah.

And yeah, we just need to also just make sure that the pre-call process is a bit more dialed in. So it's The least we have to be an educator on our sales call, the better.

Right. So just making sure that they watch the actual stuff. So like texting them, sending them over.

Yeah, they just go through it. Yeah.

All right.

And we can talk about, again, how generally you can word those messages to make it most likely they'll go through it.

Yeah. I mean, the numbers obviously, like, numbers sound great. No question, obviously. But I think diving into the mechanics of it and how they actually you know, how that actually works. What was that?

No, I didn't say nothing.

Do we get that normally where they're like, hey, I just want to dive into the numbers, all that fun stuff?

Um, I'd say like 50%.

Or like this one, this one's unique because you kind of had to pitch a little bit up front.

The thing is a lot of prospects I have to do that with.

Yeah.

So that, that's just more of a sales process issue. Um, so it's like, it's not too much we can do, uh, in terms of our actual like sales structure, like on the call, but just outside of the call, just making sure they are coming to the call with a bit more context. Because again, especially if we're looking for people to pay $20,000, $40,000, $60,000, they at least need to kind of know what they're going into a bit.

To get there, what that looks like.

Yeah, yeah, no, I'll go way more in detail in our presentation as far as like how the money model works, how do we actually get paid, like all that stuff. It'll make a lot more sense there. I just want to make sure it's like, hey, it's aligned, you know what I mean? Because for you, let me ask, right, like, what even has you looking to jump into an AI business in the first place? Like something more done for you, more passive?

Um, you know, I wouldn't even say I'm looking for something passive. Um, you know, 3 to 5 hours a week is for sure doable. Okay. I think the bigger, the bigger thing for me is looking at transitioning out of my day job. Yeah, 6 months, a year.

What do you do for work?

So you kind of do two things.

I've got real estate that I manage You're cutting out quite a lot for some reason.

Yeah, I can't hear a fuck what he's saying.

AirPods, maybe talk closer to the laptop or something. I think that's better.

The better? Okay. Um, yeah, so real estate software company. I'm working on my day job, I'm in a lead transformation, Redbox, or a feedback company, you know, in the RV space.

I mean, it doesn't sound too bad, man. Like, most people in your position would honestly just kind of stick with that, like What's coming up for you that just makes you feel like, you know, like the day job just isn't quite enough? Like, what's telling you that?

Yeah, the big thing, um, the big thing is I'm in a great spot with my day job. It's just not— it's not mine.

I see.

I'm working for somebody else. I'm in a great spot, like, from a work-life standpoint, especially with— I got Claude involved with my organization, so now I use Claude to basically automate probably 40% of my work.

Wow, so you're really leveraging AI.

You know the power of it. Yeah, it's insane. So I got, you know, our CEO and CTO to sign off on using it, and then I'm just gonna say before— I think about that, man. That was awesome. Um, so, but again, it's just not mine. Um, I'm in a good spot. It's just not like a— it's not mine.

Yeah, no, I mean, it's safe to say it's like a lot of people, they're okay with 9 to 5, but they also want to be their own boss, you know what I mean? So totally hear you. Yeah, let me ask you, man, like besides of course like having your own company, you know, making more money, all that stuff, like what would be the main reason behind working with someone like us to like take care of the business for you?

Okay, so it's like we're kind of like jump forward a lot in the conversation.

Yeah, yeah. So one thing, and like I want to hear your feedback on this 100%, is like one thing I kind of just like, I kind of like speed through problem awareness because I feel like with prospects like these, I don't want to dive too deep. Two things that I think I should have probed on, and I want your opinion on this, would be the— when he said like up there at the top, it was like, um, he wants to transition out of his full-time job. I should have probed in on that. And then the second thing would be like the fact that it's not his own, like, how's that been affecting him, right? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. So you, like, if we just skip, or if we go back a little bit.

So, but again, it's just not mine. I'm not really like— I'm in a good spot. It's just not like a— it's not mine.

Yeah. No, I mean, a lot of people, they're okay with the 9 to 5, but they also want to be their own boss, you know what I mean? So totally here.

So a lot of people are okay with the 9 to 5 But why aren't you? Or yeah, just like instead of you just stating it like, yeah, like some people are okay with the 9 to 5, but I know people who aren't like you, right? Like I'm making it like obvious. It doesn't need to be talked about. So the, the reason why you introduce like, hey, some people are fine with the 9 to 5 is you want to take away that this is an obvious conversation because it's not an obvious conversation, right? Like this dude said, he just automates 40% of his work. He makes good money. He's doing real estate. Why the fuck does he want to do this AI thing?

Right, right.

Like it actually doesn't, like from the standpoint, I don't know why he actually wants this. Now he says, okay, it's not, it's not mine. Okay, fair enough. Like why is that important to you to have something that's yours? That's also an easy way you can take it. So it's either one of two things. When we get something that's like so ambiguous, because you'll get this a lot with this type of demographic. Oh, I just want to own it. It's not mine. I want to do something for myself. Yeah, just fucking shoot me. Like, yeah, of course, bro. I know you want that shit. That's why you're here. So either you push back and you, you like, you ask it again, which is, well, yeah, man, like, that's why people don't come to us to buy a business that's not theirs, right? They want something that's theirs. But why is it important for you to actually like, you know, buy a business though?

Right?

Like, I'll push back and I'll ask a, like, I'll ask the question again. Or very rarely will I go that route. It's either I'm going to go positive. Well, why is that important to you? Do you not have that now? Why not? And why is that a bad thing? It's a real easy way to go. It's like you take it forward a little bit to understand why it's important. Why does he actually want something that's his? Okay. For example, with this type of demographic, I'm going to assume he has children. Maybe he wants his time back. Maybe he wants something to pass down, like legacy is going to be a big one. Okay, do you not have the legacy right now just in your job, or like what's going on? Boom, problem. So I'll find out why it's important, or I'll just, uh, I'll do what you just did. It's like, hey man, like some people are fine just working a 9 to 5, like just making decent money. Like, why are you not okay with that? Why would you be wanting something that's yours, right? So then I'll get the why he's not okay with just doing the 9 to 5. So instead of just assuming it like you just did right there, I'm just going to get him to say it.

And then to add on top of that, right, like, because I'm assuming after you say it's like, okay, like, how long have you kind of felt that way? Like, would you die? Like, how deep would you go on his answer?

So it just depends on what he says, right? What do you think he might say to something like that?

He doesn't want to be like 90% of the population, let's say.

Yeah, like, I— okay, but like, why don't you though?

Um, because I want to spend more time with my kids, and, you know, having the job, I have to kind of clock in, clock out.

Okay.

When you say like more, more time with kids, like how many hours are you actually working per week right now?

Oh yeah, I work like 60.

Okay.

So we're working a decent amount. Like I don't wanna assume working 60 hours a week, like what, what is that really taking you away from that you'd rather be doing?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Like being more with the kids, you know, like they're growing and the job is just kinda like keeping me away from them. Yeah.

Well, are there like certain things like you're missing? Out on, or like, what's going on?

It's like sports events.

No, no, help me understand. When you say like sports events, like, what do your kids do?

Yeah, like, because my son, he just turned 10, and like, now he just joined his first league. So like, this is where he's playing like team and stuff, and, you know, yeah, typically at like 2 o'clock, I only get out at like 5, you know what I mean?

Yeah. So are you not able to go to his games?

I haven't gone to a single one.

Oof, it could be an issue. Um, man, I don't want to assume on my end, but you not being able to go to the games, like, what impact do you feel like that has on, on him? Like, you're not being able to be there.

It just makes me feel like I'm less of a dad, like I'm more of— oh, just kind of like, um, just brings the money but not really like the dad, you know?

Yeah, well, what's that actually doing to you, feeling that way?

Um, I mean, just makes me feel less. Yeah.

That's something you're looking to change?

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Okay.

Okay.

So like something like that to where it doesn't need to be like, here's what we have to understand.

Okay.

We're talking to people who have money. You're not going to get, oh, I can't pay my bills. I might go homeless. I'm living paycheck to paycheck. We're not going to get these huge, like super obvious apparent problems. Oftentimes as well, these people have egos and they don't want to give it to you. That's why you have to ask questions in a way where you take away that's an obvious, it's an obvious conversation. That is the main tactic they will use to try to make you speed up this shit, right? Dude, just tell me what you do, right? Isn't it obvious? I just want to make more money. Tell me how I make more money. It's like, no, dude, this isn't obvious. So the little things of, well, hey man, some people are fine with that. Or it's like, hey, I don't understand, right? Like, if they ever say, hey, you know what I mean. No, I don't, right? Like, I say that every time. Like, no, I don't. Help me understand, man, right? Now, I don't say it in a negative way, like, dude, I don't understand. It's like, dude, I'm curious, like, what's going on? And then that will allow them to actually open up because they have to put more effort into the conversation.

Okay, because like one thing that I've— and again, this is probably just something I should just like stop doing or thinking, but like it's them saying like, how is this productive to me starting an agency, for example?

Yeah. Okay, cool.

So that was something to where at the very beginning when they do say something about the numbers or different things along those lines, we need to have a better response.

Okay.

So instead of like, hey, yeah, well, we want to make sure it aligns and then I'll go over how it works. What you're telling them right then and there is like there's no variability with how it works. So it's going to be much easier. It's like, hey, just so you— it's like, oh yeah, we'll definitely go over all the numbers. Just so you understand, when it comes to like the business, it can expand or contract to fit whatever it is that you want it to be. So it's going to be very custom based off of just your situation where you're at now and really what you want. So help me understand.

Boom.

Like now it actually makes sense why I'm asking these questions. It's not that, hey, I just want to make sure we align and then I'll tell you what we do. That's a very me-centered approach. Dude, they don't give a fuck about you. They don't care. But if you're like, hey man, it's going to be different based off of where you're at now and what you want. Because for example, and it's like if you do get any pushback about this, like you'll just like, you can like, there's, you can restate that in 100 different ways. It's like, hey man, well, it's like, hey, what, how is this, how is this relevant? Well, it's like, well, at the end of the day, when we're talking about like buying a business, a business can be whatever you want it to be. The last thing I want for for you is you come in, you buy a business and you get the exact same things you don't like about your job now in your business, right? You just bought another job. So in order for me to do that, I need to understand like what your situation is, what you don't like about it so that way we can change it. Does that make sense? And they'll be like, oh yeah, it makes sense, right? Like it just needs to make logical sense why you're asking these questions.

Yeah.

And I think in my mind, maybe that's something I have to like kind of overcome myself is like sometimes I kind of relate to them. It's like, I kind of see how this might not make sense.

So yeah, and that comes down to, again, like, your, your internal belief is then rubbing off on— like, because if, like, when I'm going through the conversation, if you give me pushback, I'm completely, like, I'm righteously convicted that you need to answer my fucking questions, right? So people fall into my frame because there is no waiver. And you need to answer my questions and here's why. Like, I can do that all day if you really wanted to. Very, very rarely do I have to do it more than once because once you do it once, naturally people want to follow authorities.

Yeah.

So they'll fall right into your frame.

Got it.

Okay.

Very rare will you get like the dickhead that you have to do like 2, 3, 4, but it's like very, very rarely, but those people still fall into your frame. It just needs to make logical sense. So the thing is, why do we need to know their situation? Why do we need to know their problems? Like ultimately, Yes, you are selling an AI business, but ultimately what you're selling them is them getting rid of their problems.

Exactly.

How can you sell them that if you don't know what the fucking problems are, bro? And it's like, what if you do talk to somebody? Real, real prime example. So somebody in the mastermind, I was talking to him about like, okay, how do we make more and all these different things? His situation really impacted like how, like what prescription I would give of like how we're going to attack this thing. Because for him, he lives in the UK. The main reason he wants to make more money is to spend more time with his kids.

Okay. Yeah.

Very easy situation that UK people can do to make more money is they get on a US-based offer, which means he'd be basically working nights, which is the only time his kids are off of school. So literally that solution would be the only reason he wants to make more money. You get what I mean? It would, it would drastically impact that. So understanding people's situations will help you actually give them what they need. If I don't know where you're at and what you need, it's very, very hard for me to actually give a good recommendation for how I'm going to solve your problems or what this actually does for you. I'm just going to assume, and I could be wrong. Like for him, in my mind, it's like, dude, what? Like, I'll work whenever. Like, you know, I was fucking living in Vietnam. Like, I'll work whenever. As long as I can make money. That's my preconceived notion. It's probably your preconceived notion too. For him, he's like, no, I want to go to my kid's ballgame or, you know, whatever, whatever they would be doing. And in UK time, that would drastically impact his ability to work US hours. So it's like we helped him get on another UK offer. So it's going to drastically impact the actual solution that you give.

Okay.

So that's why we need to know this stuff.

Right, okay. No, that makes sense.

Be righteous about this shit, right? Like, fuck you, bro, answer the goddamn question. Like, I need to know this stuff if I'm gonna truly help you, right?

Okay, okay.

Um, because it's like, yeah, it's— and a real easy one is like, hey, I don't want to get you into something that is the exact same thing you're trying to get away from, right? And you just pay me money because it sounds good.

Right.

It's a real, real easy one that number one, it increases your authority because now you're like, hey bro, I'm not here to just sell you something to sell you something because you have cash. Number one, so increases your authority. Number two, it gives a reason why you're asking the questions.

No, that's fine.

All right, because like in my mind, that's partially why I speed up.

You'll see during this call, okay, I watch this call as well. You'll notice how I kind of speed through some of these questions and don't dive deep when I should have. It's because of that.

Yeah.

Well, also as well, do you have any holdups talking to people with money?

When you say holdups, what do you mean?

Do you feel any type of way in terms of like in the pecking order? Do you talk to people with money much differently than you would talk to somebody without money?

I don't think I do. What I think it is, it's like whenever I get pushback, Part of me kind of feels like I should be combative. And then that's why like I try aiming for the least amount of pushback and that hence like, yeah.

So when we're talking about like being combative, when we're talking about being an authority, if you're like the most authoritative person, right? There's difference between being an authority and being a tyrant. Like the most authoritative person, the person who is the most confident feels the least need to be combative. Okay. The reason being is like combativeness comes from a place of like, I want to change you. You need to be fixed. Let me tell you, right? Versus I see you and how we should see everyone. We see them as a reason.

Okay.

So there's an actual reason that they are acting, saying, and doing the things that they are saying right now. Now we don't have to agree with that reason, whatever it is, but they have a reason. If somebody cuts you off in traffic, they're not an asshole. They might just, you know, had to go to the bathroom or something, you know what I mean? Like, they like really got to take a shit. So it's like there's a reason that they do things. Now we give ourselves the benefit of the doubt because we understand our reasons. The issue is when we're on conversation with people, we don't give them the same benefit of the doubt. So once we understand, we make that shift in our head of like, okay, every single person I'm talking to is a reason. That's number one. So if I just shift like, why are they acting this way? If I shift what the, what the reason is, then they'll act in a different way.

Okay.

Also, number 2, every single person you're talking to is wearing a mask. It's just people with more money tend to have a thicker mask because they get more, uh, outsized, like, uh, praise from the world around them.

Mhm.

Right?

Because how much does this guy make per year?

I think it was like $15K a month or $12K. It was like $200 grand a year or something like that.

Yeah, like $200 grand a year. Like, dude, in the general population, like, this dude's a fuck— like, $200K a year. This dude's a killer, bro. Right? So it's like, all his— all the people around him, right? Like, he gets the respect of like somebody who's like absolutely crushing it. You know what I mean? So they have, generally speaking, a lot higher egos. Okay, so we just have to understand that, like, there is a reason that they're acting this way. So we need to get behind the mask, which is number one, first and foremost, like, I don't believe them. People who are making $100K, $200K, $300K a year are the most full of shit I've seen.

It's just selling these people.

The people who are making like, you know, really, really good money, like actually good money, you know, like at least I would say like, you know, $700K, $1 million plus, they tend to have a lot less egos about it because what keeps you trapped making $100K, $200K, $300K per year is you get to that point and you have a huge ego about it. There's nothing else I have to learn and I don't need to do anything else.

Yeah.

So like this is something that you just have to keep in mind. Not always the case, but it's a pattern that I've recognized. Um, but what can happen is if you're not making that much money yet, we can kind of pedestalize them a little bit.

Yeah.

Okay, so it's just being aware of that. Okay. And so we need to take them off the pedestal. Number one, that will allow you to sell more, and then you'll start making more than they do, right? And then you won't have the problem to begin with, right? So like, at first, before I got to the point where I'm making way more than what that guy is making, so it's like, now it doesn't even cross my mind. Like, $200K, if I made $200K in a year, dude, I'll be freaking the fuck out. Um, I'll be like, oh my God. But to get to that point, you kind of have to just like destigmatize you know, making $15K per month.

Right. Right.

Because like you've hit above like $10K per month.

Yeah.

How much, how far does that shit go, bro?

Not very far.

Not nearly as far as what you think before you hit it. Dude, it's the same thing with $20K. You know what I mean? I never actually really started to feel like, you know, the quote unquote financial freedom until I was hitting about $50K.

Right.

Now again, everyone's number is going to be a little bit different, but we like, let's keep like, we can keep these concepts in our mind. Oftentimes people are making $200K per year, like they're still with the lifestyle creep they have, they're still relatively broke.

Right.

Okay.

So they haven't broken out of the system. They're just higher up on the system that a lot of the broke people, because in your previous offer, you're talking to a lot of broke people, they have the same problems. They're just like higher up of those problems. Like they've solved the basic ones. They haven't solved the top ones, which would be like time, legacy, like status is also going to be a big one. Okay, so I need to pull these out in order to address them.

Okay, so then, because the thing is, like, the combativeness, I have noticed I kind of do that. Do you think part of it is the fact that I don't feel confident myself, one? But the second part is, like, when they don't kind of answer it the right way, part of me just, they're like retarded, and that's like probably really bad. So then it makes me like That's probably what gets me like annoyed and then slash come back.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

So instead of like trying to psychologize, cause it's like, here's the issue. We can, we can psychologize it to death.

Yeah.

Right. And it's like, will it get us that far? Like probably not. If we just change the way that we view it just slightly.

Yeah.

Right.

Then that'll probably be the best. Yes, they're retarded and that's okay. Yes, they're retarded. And that's okay. That's why they're here.

Cool, man.

If they weren't retarded, they wouldn't be here.

Fine. Okay.

So it's like, and again, it's like looking at them as a reason, right? Like, do they have the knowledge to get everything that they want?

No.

That's why they're here. So if they weren't at least a little bit retarded in this aspect, right?

They wouldn't need you.

It's like, dude, fantastic, right? That's why you're here, bro. So instead of like you trying to shift too much about how you view them, it's like just the extra, okay, that's okay. Like, that's why they're here.

Cool.

Let me, let me address it. And oftentimes, again, how you view something, your worldview is going to drastically impact what you can see, what you can't see, and how you actually do things.

Right.

So even though like intelligence-wise they might be, um, you know, above average, but their worldview is not conducive to being a, you know, rich business owner. Like, that needs to be shifted. It's not an IQ thing, it's a worldview thing. And your worldview will drastically impact like what you see, what is true, what is not true. So this is how like you always have to think about it. I know you said you've been watching more debates Right? Once you start to see all debates are and what a lot of persuasion in sales is, is just worldviews. How do you view the world? And as a salesperson, I'm trying to understand how they view the world, what their problems are, shifting as much as I can how they view the world or how they should view the world so that they pay me money and they get what they want.

Yeah.

That's all it is.

Okay?

So like that's what we want to take a look at. So when I'm talking to somebody, and I hear something that's like, okay, worldview, that's not gonna help them. Instead of me just attacking the exact thing they said, I'm gonna wanna get behind it and try to see if I can't shift the worldview. 'Cause what you'll notice is people have strong opinions or strong words with very, very little foundation.

Yeah.

They'll say something and you ask, okay, well, what's behind that? They don't have a lot behind that. And so it's so much easier to address what's behind it than the actual thing. So that's what I'm always looking for.

Okay.

So these are just more conceptual things to like understand, like while we're going to, uh, going through the actual conversation, we haven't hit any red flags yet. It just seems like we just bailed on problem.

That's exactly what it is. And like the reason is kind of like what we just went over, but knowing that, I mean, it gives me a lot more reason to go through it and then also not be combative if they give pushback. So that helps a lot. Okay, cool.

Okay, let's keep going.

For you, because let me ask you, man, like besides of course like having your own company, you know, making more money, all that stuff, like what would be the main reason behind working with someone like us to like take care of the business for you rather than just kind of, I don't know, try it on your own and hope and pray it all works out? Like, like why actually have the buildout?

Yeah, um, you know, I think probably, probably two things. But if you can work with people who've already done it, um, learn from other people, good and bad, you can save a lot of time. Yeah. You know, it's not something I'm— I think that's probably the biggest thing, save time. Save just the mental kind of trial and error. I think I mentioned to you, but I've done e-com, dropshipping, a couple other solo entrepreneurs.

Oh, I didn't know that.

Yeah. Yeah, if you can just get past a lot of the headaches, or what most people already got, you know, ends up being, you know, saves you a lot of time, a lot of money, and brain power, which might be the most important.

I like to believe that.

Yeah, eventually maybe, you know, I may want to do my own thing and whatever, but Yeah.

Okay. No, it makes complete sense now. 'Cause like before speaking with me, right? Like I'm sure you realize I'm not the coolest dude in the world, right? Like have you spoken to like any other AI agencies or like done anything in the past to like get something like an AI business up and running? Have you done anything like that?

No, I haven't. I mean, what, what I've looked at—

Okay. So with this one thing, like first and foremost, it sounds like we kind of found, found what is it like one of his values that he really wants is time, which is good just to keep that in mind. I probably wanna dive into it there. Probably would've been better to dive into it earlier, but I would keep that in mind, I would circle that. Now he said he's tried other businesses before, that I need to explore. Now normally with like at this part of the conversation, I would be as narrow as you're being right now. The issue is like right then and there, he's like, hey, I've tried all these other things. So how long, like, what has he actually tried? Did he pay for anything or did he try it on his own?

Okay.

How long has he been trying it? Like, this will give you a lot of leverage in the conversation.

Okay.

And just because he kind of opened up that door.

Yeah.

Okay.

So just something to keep in mind of, like, that would give you a lot of leverage because also something we don't have right now and something that I always want before I move into like, hey, what have you done about this before? Is time.

Timeframe. Got it.

That's what I want to know. How long have you been looking to get out of your job, basically?

Because like I was going to ask and I was trying to hear what you might think on this is like after I asked the Russian, basically saying something like, and like, why is that? Like after he answers, like, why is that important to you? Like to actually save the time and get the business going?

Yeah. Well, generally speaking, like I'm going to ask that much earlier. Like those are the type of questions I'm going to ask much earlier, but If we're at that point in the conversation and we haven't gotten it, fantastic. Go ahead and ask it.

Got it.

Right. Makes perfect sense in the flow of the conversation. I just need to understand, like, how long has he been looking to get out of his job? Because he just said like, hey, I've tried all these other things.

Right.

I would also want to understand, like, what did he actually try? What did he do? Did he pay for anything or is he just trying to do all this shit by himself? That will give me insight. And then as well, when I have the time, it will give me the leverage of like, why haven't we gotten out of our job yet? Like what's been going on? What's really been holding us back?

Okay.

It just gives you much more leverage.

Oh, that makes a lot of sense. I, and I should have probed on it for sure. I think that's why I dove straight into solution awareness. I wanted to pull it out, but I should have just attacked it like right then and there. Or like asked.

Yeah, he kind of, yeah, he did. He just left it open, which Again, we'll see where it goes. If any other red flags pop up—

I'm doing, uh, there's 2 or 3 others that I've seen. Uh-huh.

You're cutting out again for some reason.

Now let's actually listen to how you say this.

Before speaking with me, right, like, I'm sure you realize I'm not the coolest dude in the world, right? Like, have you spoken to like any other AI agencies or like done anything in the past to like get something like an AI business up and running? Have you done anything like that?

Now I would take out, have you spoken to any other AI agencies? Because just naturally what I implant in their head is that they should be talking to other agencies.

Yeah.

If you're the first person that they talk to, then it kind of puts you behind the 8-ball a little bit, which that's kind of what he said. He's like, well, you're like the first people I've talked to, but I've seen other people. Dude, I don't care if you've seen other people. What the fuck does that matter?

Right?

Right. So it's like, okay, so before like we started talking today, first of all, we don't have his, his his goal in terms of like, I would probably want to go by here. Like after you ask like the rationale, it's like, okay, so help me understand. Like you said you wanted to go ahead and replace your job. Like how much would you need to be making in your own business that could completely replace what you're currently making? It's just a roundabout way of saying like, hey bro, how much do you make? Okay. It's okay. So we're looking to at least replace that. Before we started talking today, like what have you actually done about getting hands-on help to get an AI agency open? To replace your income or what have you really done on that front? Right. I'm never going to say like, have you talked to any other agencies? Like, what have you done to get hands-on help so you could get outcome?

Got it.

Like, that's it.

I'll just—

I'll leave it like that. So it's because like the one of the biggest objections that you can get is I want to see what else is out there.

Yeah, that's me literally seeding it then when I do that.

Yeah.

And then it's like now we got to deal with that later on. Um, which like in terms of all the objections, like that one's just a huge pain in the ass if we're going to be real about it. Um, so best not to get it. Now if we do get it, we obviously want to handle it, but best not to get it.

Now I haven't— I mean, what I've looked at doing, there's 2 or 3 others that I've seen under the names offhand. Uh-huh.

You're cutting out again for some reason. I'm sorry, it's still cutting out. Yeah, I think it's when you talk closer to the laptop.

Better? Of course.

Yeah, it's better.

Better. Um, yeah, so I think, um, yeah, I haven't taken any meaningful steps towards doing that. I've looked at, you know, how we do it, but again, just going from like that first step is always the hardest.

Exactly.

Moving. So with the other things I have going on, like that first step is, yeah, a lot of other things in motion.

So yeah, because I'm able to say 100% because then can I ask like what's maybe shifted that has you looking to I guess like, because you're saying like, okay, what's, uh, what's a big red flag?

Honestly, I don't even know what he— he didn't even answer my question really. It was just like he's talking to us.

Yeah.

Okay, so let's know what he said. Did you hear what he said?

He has other things that he's looking at.

You're cutting out again for something.

Yeah, yeah, he cut out.

I think it's when you talk closer to the— yeah, it's better.

Better. Um, yeah, so I think, um, yeah, I haven't taken any meaningful steps. Through doing that?

I haven't taken any meaningful steps.

I've looked at, you know, how I do it, but again, just going from like that—

I've looked at it.

First step is always the hardest.

First step is always the hardest.

Moving. So with the other things I have going on, like that first step is, you know, a lot of other things in motion.

So yeah, and I have a lot of other things in motion. Would he just give himself a ton of basically like a time objection where it's like not the right Just bullshit excuses, bro.

Yeah.

Right? Like just bullshit excuses. Well, it's like, hey man, like, yeah, yeah. It's like, can I make a suggestion? Every single person who comes to us, like they're in the exact same situation. They got a lot of things going on. Oftentimes like they're, you know, they're busy, either business owners working, they got multiple things and they're really able to carve out the time to make sure they can actually get the AI business up and going. So what do you feel like has prevented you? Now this is where timeframe comes in. Like before I dive into that, like at this point I would ask timeframe. Well, how long have you been looking into this? So that way when I, when I go for it, I have timeframe because timeframe is what you're going to use to bash over his head of like, hey bro, it's been 6 months. Hey bro, it's been a year. It's been 3 years. It's been 5 years.

Okay.

So irrelevant. So it'd be better if I had timeframe. So it's like, what's prevented you in the past 6 months of making the time so we can actually get this AI business up and going?

Mm-hmm.

So I need to get behind that. He's like, oh, I'm just giving myself a lot of excuses. Easiest way is just to use the comparative frame. All it is is like, hey, other people in your situation have figured the fuck out. Why haven't you? Basically, other people who are in your situation have figured out the time aspect and made the time. Why haven't you made the time?

And then that's going to pull out the real thing.

Yeah, because, because understand, when I blame time, I'm blaming something that's like ambiguous outside of me, basically. Like, the reason I haven't gotten what I want is because of my circumstances, bro. Can't you just see? My life is preventing me from doing all the stuff I want to do. It's not my fault. Life is happening to me. It's like, it's no. Why haven't we made the time with what we have in order to do that?

We—

I need an internal belief Okay, I need something that's like internally has been holding them back. Like, why haven't you made the time?

And that could be like, like, yeah, big one's gonna be priority.

I think I could do it. I thought I could do it by myself. Like, you'll run into a couple of these beliefs. These are going to be much more like juicy and you can really hammer home because if he says priority, it's like, okay, well, it's like, can I share perspective? Like, can you see how like you not making it a priority these past 6 months has really led us to be in the situation we're in right now? Are you okay with me saying that? I'm like, oh yeah. So if we had to put a number on it, you not making this a priority for the past 6 months, like how much do you think that's cost you? Do you mind if we do the numbers? It's like, okay, so if on average person who works with Wes, they're making $20,000, let's just say you do half of the average. That means we left $60,000 on the table just these past 6 months. Does that sound right? So you not making this a priority, is that, is this something that's actually worth holding on to? Or is it time to actually change? Oh no, it's time to change it. Why? What happens if you don't?

Right? Boom.

Okay?

So then if he gives you any type of bullshit at the end of the objection handling, because you know how this call ended?

It was, um, I believe it was just him wanting to go over the agreement.

Okay.

Yeah, well, that one's a little bit different.

I didn't think, I didn't go over crazy like tie-offs near the end though. So I know we spoke about that.

Yeah, we'll talk about it once we get there. Because yeah, when you're doing something like for $40K and you're asking for a wire transfer or things like that, it's like very rarely are you going to be able to get them to be like, pull up their fucking banking app and send it right then and there.

Right.

So if there is a way that you can get money coming in like right away, like $1,000 or $5,000, something, probably a better tie down. Now that's structural. That has more to do with what the company will allow. If they're not down with it, there's not really much you could do, but we just need to get in front of any objections and then see if we could push for it, timeframes, all that fun stuff. We'll get to that when we get to the end.

Yeah, fair enough.

100%. Because then can I ask like, what's maybe shifted that has you looking to, I guess like, because you're saying like me taking that first step is the hardest, like what's maybe shifted that has you hopping on a call like with us today? You know what I mean? Not saying you're just starting today, but yeah.

Yeah. Um, no, it's really just being able to jumpstart going from zero to one. With that, you know, versus having to go through and be like, okay, well, do I go search for Google keywords on what AI topics, you know, small business are looking at and if they'll build it, okay, how do I market it, which is probably—

Now also as well, I'd probably be a little bit more direct in your language there. Like, it's a good question, but you softened it a little bit and there's no reason to. So generally speaking, like how I'm going to ask that question is like, hey, what shifted more recently that has you taking it more serious now?

Okay.

'Cause like number one, I never want to validate that the call is taking a step, right? Because when you're like, okay, like you're, what can happen, right? Is like, you're like, oh, so time to make a change. Oh yeah, that's why I booked the call. It's like, no, the call is the bare minimum.

Got it.

Of even looking at taking a step. I can take a look at a gym. It doesn't mean I have a six-pack, bro. It's like, no, it's like you gotta actually you know, do the plan, you know, whatever it would be, buy the membership. Just looking at it is not a step. That's the bare minimum.

Okay.

So it's like, I always want to, I don't want to validate that too much. And then as well, you also be like, oh, it's, I don't want to say you've done nothing, bro. He has done nothing.

Right.

You got what I mean? Like me passively, like, dude, I've passively looked at $100 million yachts. Have I taken actions to buy a $100 million yacht just because I've looked at it?

Like, no, right?

Like, just looking something up on Google, or like, you know, kind of passively in your free time looking at a few things, like, this isn't really taking action. So again, I don't want to validate too much because what are you going to ask them at the end of the call? Okay, we need to move forward and you need to You know, drain your bank account, give me your money. Okay, so if we validate them too much, there's not going to be that friction. Okay, so there's a fine line, but there needs to be internal tension for him to create urgency to move forward. Now, what is the internal tension around? I don't like my situation, and I haven't actually done the things to get out of that yet. So the internal tension tells him, well, I need to do those things. I need to take the action to get out of my situation, right? I need to buy. So that's the internal tension that he needs to feel. So if we softened it, then he, like, he's just not going to feel it as much. Okay, so it's just something to be aware of. Again, like, most of the time it's going to be a negative and there's no upside to doing it as well. So if it's just really like, it's one of these things where it's like, is it going to be the end-all be-all And every single conversation, like, dude, if you say it like this, there's no way you can close. It's like, no, but you can only get negative consequences. There's no positive to you doing it.

Of me like softening it is what you're saying?

Yeah, like you soften it or validating too much. It's like, there's no positive, but there is negative. So just take it out.

That goes back to me saying like, I want the conversation to be like kind of easy breezy, where it's like, it does not allow to push back. So 100%, you're right.

Yeah, at least for me, basically reverse engineering the business. Yeah, is the piece that's just through trial and error that, you know, if I can jump start that process, like, that's, that's a big—

yeah, that's a big thing, 100%. And like, with those other companies that you kind of like dabbled with, I guess what's maybe prevented you from just like starting with them? Like, was it something you didn't like? Like, what happened?

Yeah, I haven't talked to him yet, um, to be honest. Um, so maybe about Stephen with you guys. I just want to get a feel for what you got.

Damn, you're right, bro.

Again, I literally didn't talk to him yet.

And I seeded it.

That hurts my chest. Oh yeah, fuck.

Wow.

That means he has to talk to him.

Shit. Okay.

Now sometimes we are going to run into this regardless of what we do. At this point, I hear this language. I need to understand differentiators.

Okay.

No, that makes sense, man. Now let's just say, you know, you have those conversations and they're around like the, you know, they do this pretty much the same stuff. They're fairly similar when it comes to price. For you, what's going to be the differentiating factor? Like, how are you going to decide? Okay, so it's like I need differentiators. Now also depending on if he is going to talk to other businesses and it's like we can't overcome that objection, there's stuff we can do at the end. We just need to make sure we're the last person they talk to.

Exactly. Okay.

Because it's like also something you got to keep in mind. This is something that is going to come up a lot more frequently when you are talking about much more expensive packages is people just do shit because they think they should do shit. When you're selling something for $3K, it's like, okay, you can get them like, boom, like, just fucking give me your card. But when you're selling something for $40,000, people have preconceived notions of like, oh, I need to shop around, I need to do this, I need to— like, they have all these preconceived notions. Now, they have no foundation for those preconceived notions, which is great for us because we can poke holes in it and overcome it. But just understand that they are going to have these preconceived notions more often. So I'm going to do everything in my power to not trigger it and make sure I address it when it comes up.

Yeah. Okay.

Okay, so no, I think that makes sense. So in this case, I mean, I could have probably seeded it. You can see I'm like tweaking until I had to take a sip. I'm like, okay, calm down. But yeah, and okay, so basically just kind of see what they're looking for and then obviously place themselves as like the last person they ever speak to. But before the pitch, I'm sure like, hey, what we have is like exactly what they're looking for.

Yeah, because like also understand that there is a difference between I've seen other companies and I've booked calls with other companies.

Yeah, he hasn't done—

wow, different. So he hasn't done that. So in my mind, this— if he were to give you that objection, which it sounds like he doesn't, but if he would, it's totally invalid because if that was the actual case, he would have already booked other calls, right? Right. So then at that point, generally speaking, they're just looking for an excuse to get off the call. Um, you would just go ahead and you'd handle it like how it's in the, uh, like the, the framework that— yeah, yeah, right. You just handle it that way. You would get to what the real objection is.

100%. I mean, we're, we're a pretty cool group. I think you'll like this. But, um, yeah, let's, um, let's dive in because like 3 to 5 hours, I mean, that works for you. My last thing would be like, what would be kind of like the income goal, right, so that you could eventually have this be your full-time thing and to leave the job, let's say in the next 6 to 12 months?

It'd probably be consistency and reliability is slightly more important than the actual number, but for like $15K, $15-20K.

Okay. Yeah, pretty good range, especially kind of 6 to 12 month mark. So let's say like, let's just say $20K.

Let's round up.

That's like our average client at around $20K. But okay. Yeah. Let me walk you through. I think you're a great fit as far as like what you're actually— Okay.

So even with this, right, like we don't have future pace, we don't have consequence. I know you said, so the biggest thing is you've kind of just been making these calls like easy breezy. Now the downside to that is like, where's the urgency? Okay, and how can I customize what I'm doing to what they have and what they want? So even if we just like, for you, for example, if we make problem a little bit more hard-hitting, we take out the softening language. And before you move forward, it's like, hey man, is this something you're actually looking to change? Or hey man, is this something you're ready to take seriously? Like you're still like, ultimately, you're qualifying them too, because the way they at least I understand this business model is like, basically you guys become partners. Okay. It's like, I need to make sure you're in this, dude. So like, that's what I would use like on the frame. So if you've, I don't think I might need to post one, but like in the calls that I'm on right now, or I'm helping people like open up a sports facility, it's kind of, it's not quite the same thing, but you know, we help them open up the sports facility, we do it all done for them. Like, I let them know, it's like, hey man, we have 100% success rate because ultimately this only makes sense for us if we partner with somebody for the long term.

Yeah.

Right?

That's why I'm asking these questions. Like, that's the frame.

Okay.

You wouldn't use that at the top of the call, would you?

I definitely would.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Bro.

Okay. I think I need just like, Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah.

Now some of it is just going to come down to how much education they have coming to you. The, the, the— if they have more education, I feel the less need to use a frame. If they have no education, they have no framing of what this is or what the conversation is going to be about, then using a bit of frame. But it's going to be something that's super easy breezy.

Okay.

So it's like for that call, for example, it's like, hey man, just so you understand how these calls work, my job is just to really make sure that since we partner with you for the long term, that this makes sense for both of us, right? Because it's going to be custom based on your situation. So it's really just understanding where you're at, where you're looking to go, and then see like what those next steps would look like. Does it make sense?

They're like, yeah.

Okay, help me understand, like, what would even have you looking to open up a sports facility in the first place? That's how I start all the calls. So, hey, you know, the normal pleasantries and then that frame, and then I go right into it. So it's just simple, easy breezy. But then also is that one as well. It's like they don't come in with a ton, a ton of education.

Right. Okay.

In terms of exactly what it's going to be, you know what I mean? So it's like they don't know how these conversations exactly are going to go versus when they're like hopping on for like a coaching program, for example, it's a much more straightforward conversation. So I feel a lot less need to add in a frame, especially, especially, especially if you are hopping on calls right now and they're like, how the fuck is this relevant?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking, like a frame would be super useful to put at the top.

Yeah. So it's like, again, when we're talking about, um, like the, the different things, it's all contextual and it's all about like tools. These are tools to get outcomes. So it's not that frames in every sense is always going to be wrong. It's just contextual, contextually, in most conversations, it's not going to be needed and it can be even harmful in some ways.

Okay.

But in certain situations, on certain conversations, if they're coming in, they don't really have a lot of context on you, the company, what this is going to be like. Giving them a little bit of insight of why I need to understand your situation.

Yeah.

Will just help them fall in the frame easier.

Yeah.

No, that makes complete sense.

And this will also help you, especially as you're getting more comfortable, like probing, pushing, and getting these answers out of people that are, you know, have a little bit more money. It'll also help you as well. Okay, so it like, could I conduct the conversations without using the frame? It's like, yeah, right? And you could too, but just understand like you, there are sometimes you're going to get pushback and you're going to have to say the same things anyway. So yeah, might as well just preempt it. So it's just getting, getting in front of like the objections. Okay, so I'm gonna shoot past.

Could I ask like while you're kind of like looking after, after that, like For an offer like this, would you do future pacing consequence? Like, what would that— it's like, how would you go about doing it with someone like this? Or like even for your sports one, like how does that even look?

Yeah. Yeah. And I'll look, I'll see if I can't get one uploaded. Okay. So generally speaking, people, if they don't have a time or they don't have a reference of what they can make, I would show them something. So for example, on these, the sports facility offer, we run projections for their area and their sports facility, right? So we have like 5-year projections for their area. So I go, hey, these are the projections. I explain it a bit, maybe takes like a minute. So, and then like I unshare the screen. So I share it, then I unshare it because if you just keep the screen up, like what will happen is people kind of zone out and they'll just stare at the screen.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I don't want them to do that. So I'll share it, then I'll unshare it. I'd be like, okay, so help me understand, man, like you being able to get to XYZ, at the end of the day, it's just numbers on a screen. Again, we want to make sure you're in it for the long term. Like, what difference does that make for you? So it's the same thing. I just frame it slightly different, slightly different. Okay. Like I'm bringing back up like, hey, why I'm giving a little bit of a justifier. It's like, oh, like this is this and this. And then like, I'll run through it. Consequence, all that fun stuff. If you can get future-based and you can do consequence easy.

Yeah. And then like for the future-based, you're not looking for some like sob story. It's usually just something like—

There just needs to be a reason. It just needs to be tangible. You need to have a tangible and emotional outcome.

Okay.

Like for him, why does he want to own something? Why does he want to leave his job?

I don't even have that information.

Yeah, it's like we don't even fucking know. So it's like, let's just say for example you wanted time, and specifically wanted time to spend with these kids, like in the role play we're having, right? Like, what would you do with these kids and how would that, you know, like, what would that do for you personally? Really be able to be at their games and do all that? What happens if you can't do that? Like, that, that's what I would need out of it. Now again, when you're talking to somebody like this, like, are you going to get them to cry? Is it going to be as emotionally charged as somebody who's like looking to get into dropshipping and you're selling them a $3K package? Like, probably not. Yeah, but that's okay. There still does need to be a tangible and emotional, uh, future that they want. It just needs to be tangible, which means it's real, concrete. You could touch it, taste it, smell it, see it.

Yeah.

So for him, if it's like spending time with his kids, what would he do? What games do they play? Oh, baseball, right? Like, okay, so you've been able to like actually get off work, go to your kid's baseball game. Like, what would that do for you personally? Oh, dude, it'd be great, right? Emotion.

Cool.

How does it make you feel if you really wanted to spice it up a little bit, right? Like, you'll get those in there. And then from there it's like, well, how likely is if we just stay in our current job that we're going to be able to actually do that though? I said, oh, it's not likely. So I do have to ask like, what happens if nothing does change?

Right?

We stay in a certain situation, whatever it would be, right? And it's like we don't get to get outcome, whatever they want, right? We don't actually— we're not able actually to be there and watch our kids play baseball. Like, what actually happens?

Oh, ba ba ba ba ba. Okay.

Now, with these people in particular, generally speaking, before I go into consequence, I'm going to be much, much, much more likely to use an analogy or story first. So that way I just wanted to get less of the pushback. Just using the Usain Bolt analogy, it's like, okay, hey man, like, I feel like we have a good understanding of like what you're running towards, right? Like what your gold medal is. Um, but at the end of the day, if you put somebody at 100-meter line, they're running towards a gold medal, they're going to run as fast as they can. But if you put a tiger behind them, you think they're going to run faster? Oh yeah, same thing here, right? So for you, just so we make sure we're running as quick as possible, like, what's your tiger? Like what happens if nothing actually changes and you can't actually quit your job and like be able to be there for your kids the way you want?

Cool, right?

Like now it makes sense why you're asking that. Or I'll like use like a personal story. Now, personal story is going to be something that's much more thought out. Generally speaking, takes a much more of a skillset.

Yeah.

And a lot more thought needs to be put into it. So we can put a pin in that. Maybe potentially once we get much more information on the types of people we're talking to, what their objections are and how we can speed up the conversation, we can add in a personal story that addresses those things. But yeah, that's how I would structure it.

So like essentially just adding in preframes before asking like big questions like future pace or—

Yeah, yeah, you just preframe it a little bit because when you're thinking about it, generally speaking, if we do get pushback, why do we get pushback?

'Cause they don't know why, like.

Yeah, they have no, like, dude, why the fuck are you asking me this? Tell me, just tell me about AI, bro, right? Like they just don't know why you're asking. So if you tell 'em, hey, this is why I'm asking, they just need to know a why. Like they've done a study to where like people cutting in line and if you're like, hey, can I cut in line because, and you gave a good reason, I think it was like 90 plus percent were willing to let you cut in line if you didn't have a reason, like very few people did. But what they tested is, hey, can I cut in line because— and they just say something totally unrelated, right? Because my, like, grandma is good at pickleball. Okay, so over 80% of people would still allow people to cut in line, even with nonsense reasons. So just people— and really, that concept is just to understand people just want to know why. They want to know reasons like, why are you doing this? So if you give it to them, a lot less likely to get pushback. And especially if you give them good reasons, very, very unlikely you'll get any pushback.

Yeah, that is solid. I'm not gonna lie.

Okay.

So even if you gave a bad reason, which I think like, hey, the reason I'm asking is because I just want to know, you'll still get better responses. Now I think that's a bad reason because they don't give a fuck about you. Right., but some reason is better than no reason.

When you are asking questions like that, I want you to kind of like realize is that like not everyone does the flagship, like not everyone starts with flagship, right? Most people, they'll start with like Operator. Typically that's the most popular one. And then from there they either invest more into ads and stay with Operator, or if they have like an extra $20K laying around after the first few months, it's like, okay, so if you guys can't see it, it's 3-tier options.

Um, generally speaking, I don't like presenting like this just because it's like, now I'm giving them multiple things they have to make decisions on.

Yeah. Okay.

Not only do you have to decide whether or not you're going to buy or not buy, you also have to decide which one you're going to buy. It's not the end of the world, right? This is more of like a menu style thing, which I've seen work well in more like the commodity space. But I would— I don't know how well it works when you're talking about like very high, you know what I mean? So I'm sure it's effective to a certain degree. Generally speaking, like what I would do is at the very beginning of the pitch, if I don't know which one, like for him, he wants something that's like $15K. So I would just pitch him like the $40K package, right? Based off of the income goal. And then if it's like we run into anything, it's like, hey, we do have like higher and lesser. Right, that can give like different, like the average MRR that we're able to get you. So it's like you can give that, but since what you told me was this, I recommend this. So it's like, this is my recommendation. It's one thing. It gives you everything you want. It just makes it simpler. I want simple at the end. I don't want a ton of things up in the air.

So then do you think, because this is kind of how like all the people on the offer like present it, So I wouldn't want to change it too much.

Okay. Because again, if we try to change way too much at once, we don't know what's working, what's not working. So for where we're at right now, I would just start to change a bit of the discovery for this. Just keep in mind, I need buy-in. I need them to pick one. I always just need to make sure like they actually pick one.

Yeah.

And then that's what all the objections, that's what everything moving forward is going to be around. Okay, so it's like, just like, don't get caught up in, well, I need time to figure out which one I want to do.

Doing business, they would just invest that money into flagship and just level up to that tier, right? That's where that average kind of comes in. So it's either or. Typically for operators, you're just running ads or flagship because they're just 100% in there.

Yeah, but if they were doing that, those numbers should be reflected on the average. Like, that should be encompassed.

Yeah, yeah.

Where is he getting caught up?

Yeah, it's just like the averages, like the MRR, average MRR per package, essentially. That's where he was getting caught up. What I think kind of led to this is the fact that I didn't really get him into like an emotional state, or at least a little bit. He's just like super logical.

Yeah, well, also this does need to make logical sense. Where is he getting caught up?

The averages. He's essentially saying like, how come like the average for the $40K package is like 10 to 15? Whereas like the 60K one, it's like a little bit different. Like he was basically saying like the average deal size just doesn't add up to that. And then like I eventually handled it, but it was just kind of stupid. Like we were on that thing for like 10 minutes.

Yeah. And that's why it's like when you give them so many different options, like they were focusing on the wrong thing. But it's like just very, very simply like, hey, like when you invest more, we set up more niches and we are able to set up systems just with the extra added capital where we can charge higher prices. So that's why you see that MRR difference. Does that make sense? Simple, straight to the point. And then I ask a question after I'm done answering, because here's what happens. This is how it works. Silent. What is their natural, like, flow of the conversation? What are they going to do next?

Yeah, okay, this sounds good. Like, send me over the slide deck.

No, it's like, if you ask me a question, I just answer it and I'm quiet. What's your natural, like, next thing to do? Ask another fucking question.

Yeah, right.

So now we get in the, hey, you ask a question, I answer. You ask a question, I answer. Like, now they're fucking interrogating me. It's, they ask a question, I answer it succinctly. Any reason why you ask? Or does that make sense? We all on the same page? And then as soon as they answer, I move it forward, right? Like, I'm not getting caught into this bullshit. So it's like, from there it's like, okay, so any reason why you ask in terms of like on the MMR? Like, oh, I just want to make sense. Okay, so does that actually make sense now?

It's like, yes, it makes sense now.

Okay, so for you, of the 3, which one do you feel like would be best for what you're actually looking for currently?

Yeah.

Like, now I'm moving the conversation forward, not to get bogged down with just semantics and bullshit.

Yeah. So let's take OfferUp, for example. So that should be reflective of everyone who's done that, who's taken the money, put it back in ad spend, that would naturally increase MMR for that bucket. Yeah.

Seems like we got bogged down.

Yeah.

I don't want to get too nitty-gritty with like your average, like all this stuff, because like, I don't feel like helps exactly. But the, like, to get to the point here, and just say with Operator, like just naturally you have to put money into ads. Now to hit this average where it's like $10K to $12K, $10K to $15K, where it's like, hey, you could leave your job at that point. You could do that with Operator by all means.

Right.

And then for you personally, so if you wanted to just stick that way and just have a passive business where you don't have to worry about it, don't have to put more money into.

Yeah, I would see if there's a way that you can show like profit because he's getting caught up with like ads. How much do I put in it? All that stuff.

We literally just, we literally just changed that. So like now our pitch deck, it looks a little bit different than this where we took away that average and just made like yearly profit per package.

Yeah, I think like that would be much more straightforward because yeah, they're getting, he's getting caught up with like just the minutia of like revenue numbers, which honestly revenue numbers are unimportant.

What do you think of this? I'm thinking in there where it's like, because this was made with AI, like this whole doc. What if we kind of covered up all three and then the one that I click would just open up? So like, let's say I recommend someone the Operator, like I would just press the Operator and that would be the only one that shows.

Yeah, having something like that. And then also as well, because they can invest more into like ads per month and shit like that, right?

Yeah, it could. Yeah.

Okay.

So then I would just have it to where it's like, ideally I would have like a slider to where it's like the more you invest and you can actually see like however you would calculate it, like the profit per month or yearly profit or something like that. That's how I'd see it in like my head, like show them like, hey, yes, you're putting more into it, but you actually get more out of it too.

Yeah.

Okay.

If you really wanted to, or you can just make it as like just simple to where you pull it up. Um, so yeah, I would say like we got the— if you wanted to make it like as simple as possible, right? I would just put like maybe launch operator flagship and just have the average MRR, ask him to make a decision and then click on it. And then it like, you go into depth on that one.

Gotcha.

If you just want to make it as simple as possible, just to not get dragged into the weeds and really only go into the weeds about the one that actually, uh, hits the income when like they have the investment for it. Yeah, you don't want to go into the weeds of all this shit, just the one that makes sense for them.

I would say, um, but again, you don't need to do that. Like, for you to be able to leave your job and do all that stuff, you don't need to invest that money into ads. Because like, let me ask you, like, off of these 3 different packages here, like, which one are you leaning towards more?

Uh, the pre-launch operator. Okay, cool.

Because like, why that one?

Because, um, I know we have like limited, right?

Just why?

Yeah.

So couple things to keep in mind. Okay, of these three, like it's good, you're getting him to choose one. Of these three options, which one do you feel like would be the best fit for you? I think the middle one. Why? That's number one. Then number two is, okay, so do you feel like with that package it would get you the outcome you want? Okay, so do you feel like with that one it would get you to the point where you can actually leave your job? And start to actually own something for yourself? Yes, I do. Okay, why do you feel like it would allow you to do that? Because of this, this, and this. Okay, that makes sense. Um, so then I'll go over what next steps are. Okay, so the next steps are pretty simple. Here are the next steps, right?

How do you— next steps?

Because if we watch this, what are the next steps?

Yeah, so typically it's like— typically it's like reviewing the contract, making sure it looks good, and then taking care of the investment and starting.

How do they take care of the investment?

Usually it's like one time. Usually, like one thing, just send a wire of $40K, right? Okay. Or we could do like a deposit and then kind of like go into it.

So ideally, now again, this is something you can test. I would go for the deposit and then the wire, but let's just say it's just like the wire. It's like, okay, so the next steps are pretty, pretty basic. If that's the package we'd want to go with, we'd go ahead and you'd get that wired over. As soon as that wire hits, we'd get you on an onboarding call so we can do A, B, and C and really make sure we get the business up and going. Does that work for you?

So I don't even mention the contract?

No.

Like, you can mention it, right? Like, so the next steps are pretty basic. We'd go ahead, you'd wire this over, right? You would authorize the agreement. "and then we'll get you set up with the onboarding." Like you can mention it. It's like, it's not something to where it's like it needs to be this big, long drawn out thing. Now if they bring it up, like, okay, cool, I'll go over it with them, okay? But you just need to understand like, hey, can you do that? You know, those next steps work for you. What's the sense of talking all about the contract if they're like, "Oh yeah, I'd need to move things around." For example, like, okay, the next steps, you got to wire $40K. Yeah, I need to go ahead and do this, this, and this to get the money together, then I can wire it. It's like, okay, at that point, I know there's no way that he can wire it for the next week or whatever it would be, right? So now I'm not needing to do certain things, like at least I have a timeframe.

Yeah.

And I know what I'm handling, I know what I'm addressing. Okay, so it's like, I know right then and there, like, okay, he's not going to be able to wire this tomorrow. Or later today, or however it would be structured.

Yeah.

So I just need a little bit of a lay of the land, which is you just need to ask the question. Yeah. It's like, does that work for you? It's like, oh yeah, I could do it. It's like, okay. And just, uh, just, uh, just so I'm available for you in case you have any questions or anything like that, when would you be able to go ahead and make that wire? Just between now and a few days, the next few days. Okay, get time frames. After we're like, oh, well, I have to do this, this, and this, it's like, okay, what do you mean?

Um, do you have it right now.

Okay, like money aside, would you go ahead and do that? Like, now we're in the money objection, like we're handling that. So it just depends. So I always need to ask for the sale. I need to know, bro, can you do this, right?

Yeah, okay.

I mean, yeah, that's gonna flush out what those objections are. So if you just like default to, hey, go over this and then we'll chat, we don't even know what the objection is because we never actually asked for the sale. Yeah, it's like, bro, I need the objection. Tell me the objection. The reason people will ghost you in these situations, um, is there was an objection that wasn't brought up and wasn't addressed. Yeah, yeah, no, it's all good.

I appreciate your time, man. So what I'll do is I'll send you over the agreement. Like, it'll say, um, like, we'll have the agreement, uh, launch an operator. I'll even send you a flagship one just so you can check it out. But it's a very straightforward agreement. I would want you to read through it Very straightforward. And, um, we can plan on the second call for us to kind of chat, answer any questions, say like tomorrow.

Oh, okay. Um, yeah, probably Thursday, Friday. But okay, on your schedule, uh, I just come back from traveling in the morning.

No, that's all good, man. So then let's do, um, let's do Thursday. What's better for you, morning or afternoon?

Thursday, more flexible.

So it's like the biggest thing is like we haven't asked for the sale, we haven't asked like, hey, is this something you want to move forward? Like, we just haven't asked for any of that stuff, okay? So that's the main issue that we're running into right now, because we just didn't ask for the sale.

And then are you going to be on the East Coast? Are you going to be somewhere else?

Yeah, I'll be in the East Coast.

Okay, 10 AM. Yeah, that works.

And you just book them in?

Yeah.

Okay, cool. Which at the, like, overall things you do well, controlled, you, I felt like you did keep control of the conversation, which is good. Okay. Nice, you're relaxed, all the good stuff, like all the, all the like tangible stuff. Of like just how to come across, all that stuff did really well. Like things we can improve on is just going to be a bit of the discovery, just getting deeper on there now. And then at the very end, I just want to make sure that there is nothing— like if I know like, hey, they cannot buy right now, I need to get in front of everything. Okay, so for example, like, hey, does that work for you? It's like, yes, I just need to do this, this, and this. Or they're going to tell you no, or they're going to tell you, yeah, I think but this, like they're gonna give you something. But let's just say he says yes. It's like, okay, and when can we go ahead and get all that taken care of? And just so I'm here if you have any questions. And what are you gonna do between then or now and then to make sure like this is like everything like lines up and this is the right fit for you and you're gonna go ahead and move forward with it? Like what are you gonna do? Is he gonna talk to his wife? Probably, I should know that, right? If he's married, I assume he could not be. But it's like, okay, is there anything you feel like she might be most, or she might be apprehensive about just of whatever we covered here?

Mm-hmm.

Right?

Anything she might be apprehensive about? Now the thing is, he didn't even say like, hey, let me read over the contract. You're like, hey, I want you to read over this and we'll chat in a couple days.

Yeah, so I like literally just—

Sweet. We put it on him and then we ejected. So it's like the issue is with that, it's like he might have objections, he might have landmines, and we didn't get in front of any of them. Because let's just say, for example, he did just want to read over the contract. It's okay. And what are you hoping to see in that contract that maybe we just didn't cover here today? Right. And let's just say like the contract, you know, it says exactly what I said it's going to say. Right. It's pretty straightforward. Like I was telling you, once, once we— that looks good. Is this something we're just going to go ahead and move forward with?

Okay.

Why? And is there anything else that you can see that could come up that would put a hold on this? Just in case I can send over anything to you.

Right.

And is there anything else you feel like you really need to see to make sure, like, this is a no-brainer for you?

Right.

Once I understand, like, hey, I can't sell him right then and there, I'm getting in front of everything, bro. Is there anything that could be holding you back? What do you need to see? How do I make this a no-brainer? I'm getting in front of all these objections. So then you can be much more structured with your follow-up, because you say like, hey bro, how do I follow up, right? How do we follow up is like, I need to know what, if anything, they need to see, what, if anything, might be the holdups on the actual, like, them buying, right? Then it makes your follow-up super straightforward. No, that makes sense.

No, it makes complete sense. It feels like hopping on this— not hopping on this specific offer, but it's like I haven't been doing like the specific things that I should be For example, getting a problem consequence, you know, future-based, and even just asking for a sale, which seems to be, um, yeah, I think I'm seeing kind of how some of the other closers are doing it on this offer, and I don't think I should change how I do it.

So yeah, and do— and always something to keep in mind, like, uh, people have different strengths and weaknesses. So if you don't have the same strength and weaknesses as someone else, like just, uh, totally copying what they do is not always going to be beneficial. Now, if you have other people who are on the offer and they're selling it, listen to their calls and take the good things that you can implement yourself and apply those. But then also make sure that you are leaning into what your strengths are. Because for example, like if somebody else is on the team and they're a much older guy, they just lean into being super likable, right? And like they just have a bit like they have a lot more of that charisma. And it's like you're a younger guy and you can't really lean into that as much. It's like it's going to be, you're going to be pretty hard pressed to be able to sell just like them.

Okay.

Yeah.

Makes sense. So something to keep in mind.

That makes complete sense.

Okay, cool. Do you have any other questions like on this, on this offer, what we went over or anything else you want to dive into?

I think that made it very clear. I feel like I know exactly like what I specifically to kind of go over. One thing I would maybe want your opinion on would be like my script. I guess that's like a question if you would want to like take a peek at it. I don't know if you want to do that on this call or whatever, but to make like a script that I could just kind of study back to back to back, get the word tracks down. I mean, I think that would be probably nice.

Yeah, we'll put something together. We can just, in this recording here, Leave your biggest takeaway in the comments. I'll see you guys next time, but hopefully this has been good. I'll see everybody next time.

All right.

Yeah.