Watch me Review a $20k Sales Call (FULL BREAKDOWN)

In order to make real money in sales, you need to get good at pulling out pain from sophisticated buyers. I can say, as somebody who's made over $60,000 per month selling to rich people, doubt is the number one thing that you need to have on your sales calls to sell people who have more money. So in today's call, I'll be showing you a coaching call I did with one of my clients, Daniel, that once he implemented what we went over here, he made more in a single day than he used to in an entire month. We'll be going over exactly how to create doubt, like the actual words you say, the scripting, the structure. And then we'll be going over a real live sales call on how to actually implement this. So if you pay attention and actually implement what we're going over here, like Daniel, you can start making some real buku bucks in sales. Let's dive into it. And especially because the demographic you're selling to is a highly marketed demographic. So generally speaking, if they're coming in a bit colder, they're going to be much more closed off and just not as open. So the sales process as a whole, I know we've talked about that on other calls, is also super important. We're going to focus mostly on what are we actually saying on the calls, but I know we touched on that too. So first things first, we're going to look at is the actual sales process and being able to dial that in. So here is the script that we have here. Now, when you're talking about a script, it is not a straitjacket. This is just a general guide of normally how these conversations are going to go, right? If everything goes according to plan, you pretty much, you follow the process. But we want to be able to customize and bounce off of whoever we're talking to. But ideally, we have a process that is repeatable. If it's repeatable, then you can improve it. So right now, do you— what part of the process do you feel like you're having the hardest time with when when it comes to pulling out pain and creating doubt?

Yeah, well, the first thing which I think like makes an impact on it, because I'm self-setting these calls right now, it's not like, hey, you've just booked in to, you know, grow your business or whatever, right? Cool. What made you book in today? It's like we've already had like a, you know, 5-10 minute conversation just like identifying a couple of problems that they have, their goals, and then cool, yeah, we can help you potentially solve that, go over through some material. So like starting the call, maybe it's not as like dialed as this. It's kind of like just really starting at the beginning. I'm usually starting just like, hey, got some notes here. I think you told me something like my wife says I write like a doctor because I repeat myself. Apologize, whatever. But yeah, like what's like the main thing you're— I usually say like, what's like the main thing you're actually like wanting to get out of this call today just to make sure I can help the best way. And then they usually give me the main problem. But that's kind of how I've been starting.

So we get the main problem. So in terms of how we're starting the call, like that sounds like we're doing good. And then in terms of situation, do we feel like we're getting all of the actual like background information in a good way to set up like the questions we need to be asking to pull more doubt out?

I think like, okay, like I've been pulling like mainly like how long they've been running the business. Are they doing like commercial or residential? What's their current revenue? How big is their team? How many trucks do they have? I feel like that's the main data that I'm pulling out.

So what's your current rev? How many truck do you have? How are you actually wanting your work? Do you ask this question like, hey, where is the work coming in from? Yeah, it's relevant.

Okay.

No, it is.

It's relevant because I lost like How much of your work you're doing is commercial versus residential? And then I'll say like, how are you actually generating your leads or getting, winning your jobs right now?

So when we're thinking about situation as well, getting some background information can really start to tee up us diving into the problems. So when somebody comes to you, generally speaking, I know, hey, where they're getting their jobs and making that more consistent, that's going to be a big area that you're going to help with. What are other big areas that you're going to help with that you could help with?

Yeah. So like, so getting jobs, like you said, is like important. The next one is like often they're the way that they're running their business causes them to have a lot of cash flow issues. So it's like the top, the types of work that they're actually winning stops the cash flow problems.

So like what's, so what would be like the actual like profit margin on a, on an average job? Just ballpark, just ballpark.

Like a good one for if they had the right model in place, they should be at like 35% like net profit.

Okay.

But so if it's something lower than let's just say 30%, like we let out an audible oof, right? So it's like, okay, and what's like the average margin per job they have right now? Just like ballpark. 'Ah, yeah, it's like, you know, like 15%.' '15?

Oof.

Yeah, I can definitely see why you might be needing help.' And you just, you don't want to draw too much attention to it. We're talking about doubt. It's just enough that it's believable. If we go over the top and now it's weird. So just enough that it's believable. So we have the margin. Is there any other area that you're really trying to help with?

Yeah, really big one is because a lot of these guys are like, they're really busy, but they're not there. They could be making literally like double the amount of money, the same jobs. So like it's the way that they price their jobs, but also like how they sell, like when they get the opportunity, how to actually like go from like $500 average to like $1,000 plus. So like their sales process, really, that's a huge one.

So like what's the average order value? Like what's the average? They probably want to say order value, probably be what's the average job price.

Yeah. Yeah.

Something like that. Like, hey, how much do you price? Like, what's the average job cost? Like, what are you charging? And then what's that? What's the typical margin on that?

Yeah. Okay.

So now what you also have there as well is profit ballpark. You're not going to have it exactly, but you're going to have a ballpark because now we have the average job price. We have the average in terms of margins. Obviously, you just multiply the two and then like how many, you know, how many jobs like they're getting, all that fun stuff.

Stuff.

Okay, so I like, in terms of setting up your problem, I would just add these two questions in at the very top. So you're going to get a little bit more information. And the reason is, and this is something that once you see, you can't unsee it, especially with small business owners, people with egos, they hide behind generalities and numbers that sound good. For contractors, they hide behind revenue.

Yeah.

Right.

I got a $1.2 million business, bro. You're making $80,000 a year. Like, what are we talking about? You know what I mean? So we want to get behind that. And how we do that is profit margin. What's the actual margin? Now, generally speaking, what— so we're getting the problems up top. What type of problems are we getting? Because I would want to change this question.

I'd say like the most common problem they're getting is probably just like they want to be making more money or they feel like they're working like too many hours for the money that they're making. They should be making more, which kind of comes down to that as well. The other kind of main problem they have is they just have no like system for anything. Like I just got off a set call before and this guy just like he's doing like $30K a month, but everything's just in his head. He's just like doing work and then he's like quoting stuff afterwards and calling customers late cuz he's just like got no system for anything. So it's just like, just chaos. Their business is just in chaos. They'll often just say like, I feel like I'm just like working a job versus like running a company. Cuz all they do every day is just like the jobs. Okay, cool.

So we get the, we get the overarching problem up top. Okay, so we got that. And then the next thing is we just need information.

Okay.

Okay, we need to know, generally speaking, where the problem is, because if they don't tell us the problem, we need to be able to push the problem on them. Okay, now after we have the background information of like, hey, what does the business look like right now? How long you've been doing it? What's your current revenue? How many trucks do you have? How are you actually winning your work? Is it word of mouth or something else? What's your average job price? And what's the margin on average job, just ballpark? Then from there, that's when I'm going to ask like my first problem question. So it's like, hey, I have an overarching problem. I get all the background information. Now I'm diving into what the problem is. Now, what am I looking for in problem with this demographic? You're selling an improvement offer. You help people do better with what they're already doing. Okay, so everything we're about to talk about needs to be their fault. They're not good at what they do. That's what it needs to be. It can't be outside circumstances. It cannot be the market. It can't be anything along those lines, because if it is, then you cannot help them. Because it's not their fault, right? How can you help solve their problem if their problem isn't their fault? So this is what we need to be thinking about. So what we need to focus on is making sure we get them to admit they have a problem and they cannot blame external circumstances. Does it make sense?

Okay.

And we'll run through a couple of scenarios so we can really make it crystal clear. So generally speaking, I'm going to ask a question like this. Now you can change the wording a little bit, but what I'm asking is an internal question that if they answer it, they buy into the frame that it is their fault. And with that, just because I don't want to try to pigeonhole them too much or fall into, well, I don't know too much, generally speaking, I'm going to give them two options. Okay? So what do you feel like is missing in the way that you're charging for jobs or your systems on the backend that's causing whatever problem they said that they had? Now maybe we change this a little bit. Maybe like how, like the way you're pricing jobs.

Yeah, I'd say so. Pricing.

Yeah, pricing's probably gonna sound better. The way that you're pricing jobs or the system on the backend that's causing problem. Because what that allows you to do, if they buy into this frame, they can really, they'll admit they have one of two big problems. Number one, they have low, they're charging not that much because they don't know how to. Or number two, their backend systems are broken so they have a low profit margin. Either one is totally fine and it is totally their fault and you can create a big numbers gap off the back end of that. Because like when we're talking about if it's a sales or marketing problem on the front end, you could double what you're charging, which in turn doubles the actual margin per job or whatever it would be. Okay, and then on the back end, again, if they're at 15% and generally speaking, you can get the 35%, right? They can double the profit they're making on the back end changing nothing else. It makes it very, very simple that, hey, with these changes, if you're just better at this particular point, you can double what you're currently doing. And it makes it very believable. Okay, mostly because it is very believable. Does that make sense?

Yep, 100%.

Okay, any, any questions on that or how we apply that?

The only thinking, like, because some of the demographic of people we get, uh, like the ones that are playing this out in my head, like they're doing the commercial side. So they're not like in the model that we teach. So it's like, if I ask them, what do you feel like is missing in the way that you're pricing jobs or the systems on the backend that's causing you cash flow issues? They're probably gonna say, it's not, I don't know if it's the pricing, it's just like the way that they get paid.

It's the type of jobs.

Yeah.

Right. So maybe, so it's like with those ones and you can put like these things right here, They're interchangeable, right? They're interchangeable. It can be literally like fucking anything, right? Anything that actually makes sense. Now, if once you know more about the actual problems of why their systems or their process is just not working, you'll be able to better like insert what these are. But ideally I give them two options, okay? So let's just say for example, you guys help with residential, You have people who are coming into commercial. I want, what am I wanting them to blame? What do I want them to admit is the problem? And if they can't admit it, I can push it into being the problem. I would say the type of jobs. So what do you feel like is missing with maybe the types of jobs you're actually working or, you know, how the process works on the backend that's causing cash flow to be so low? Because if they say, for example, well, the way that these jobs work, it just takes 90 days to get paid out. I'm fine with that. Oh, really? 90 days? Why 90 days? Oh, because of this, this, this, and this. How long has that been the case? We are going to deal with that. And what is that actually causing in the business?

Right?

Like, then I'm right off into problem.

Okay.

Does that make sense?

Yeah. Maybe just put like next to pricing jobs slash types of jobs.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that we talked about. Okay, cool.

But yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Okay.

Because then you just want to get it and pull it out of them, okay? So once you actually get the problem, the probing is going to be exactly the same. The hardest part with these types of people is getting them to admit it's their fault and that it's a problem, okay? That's the hardest part. If we can get that, the rest of the call, right? Like, I've heard your calls, they'll be fine. Okay, it's just this part here. So there's really two big holdups that can happen. Number one, they don't know what the problem is, or number two, they blame external things. Okay, I'll run you through real quick with both of those, generally speaking, like how we're gonna go about it. Okay, so it's like number one is like, "I don't know." Okay, so if they're saying like, "I don't know," It doesn't matter what it is, you're always going to say, well, if you really thought about it. Okay, don't allow them to be lazy. People will be lazy if you allow them to be lazy in these conversations. So when they say like, oh, like, I don't know. Well, if you really thought about it, just lean a little bit forward, get them to actually answer the question. You'd be surprised how often that actually works. Well, if you did know, right? Another really easy one. It sounds stupid, works like a charm. Okay, now let's just say they double down and they really don't know. Say like, hey, can I make a suggestion? They'll say yes. This is just after working with thousands in your— just working with thousands of, let's just say, plumbers or electricians. Now this is going to depend on what their problem is and what they're actually running into. So what would you say, generally speaking, are the hardest people to pull a problem out of?

Probably like the commercial people that think just having 3 or 4 relationships that are like bringing them all the work and the cash and the 60, 90 days, like that's just normal because that's all they've known forever.

When people are in the commercial Space, generally speaking, it's hard to scale due to margins being so low and the payout taking 60 to 90 days. That's why most people come to us to do or residential because it's more scalable and profitable. Do you think that the margins and payout periods are— might be what you're running into?

Okay.

So once we have a problem, or once we have that they said that they don't know that they have a problem, the reason is I'm never going to just insert and put problems on people.

Why?

Because they're more likely to resist. People don't like being told what to do, just in general. Now, if you're an authority, if you come across like you really know what you're talking about, you can get away with it more. So don't get me wrong, but ideally I want to create doubt first. Why do I ask them the question twice? If they say, oh, I asked them the question, they say, I don't know. I'm like, well, if you really thought about it, I don't know. So what they've done is they've gone back into their brain, they've tried to come up with an answer, and they haven't. They can't. What does this create? Doubt, right? This is a currency that we need. And because they have doubt, guess who can fill that doubt? Dan the man who knows what's going on, right? So like, that's when you wanna go ahead and insert a problem. They're much, much, much more likely to actually fall into this problem if you ask them and they don't know the answer. And that's why this question is super, super key and it needs to be pointed, right? So like this needs, like, again, once you have more of the information, this very pointed question allows you to get to this point where you can actually push that problem onto 'em. So now you might need to mess around with the wording a little bit. But this is generally how I'm going to do it. This is going to be the easiest way to do it. Okay. Hey, can I make a suggestion? They're like, oh yeah, for sure. And this is just after working with like thousands of plumbers or electricians. Just switch it out, whichever, whoever you're talking to. When people are in the commercial space, generally speaking, it's hard to scale due to margins being so low and the payout taking 60 to 90 days. That's why most people come to us to do more residential because it's more scalable and profitable. Do you think the margins and the payout periods might be what you're running into right now that's causing low cash flow? And you see like, I'm a bit neutral right here. Do you feel like this might be what you're running into? To make it more likely that they're gonna say yes. And then after I get the buy-in, like, why do you see that being the case? Then I'm much more like forward. They're like, oh yeah, I think that might be. Okay, why do you see that being the case? Now it's something that they said, I'm gonna be more direct, I'm gonna be more forward, and that's when they're gonna take on the belief much stronger. Does that make sense?

Yeah, that's really clear. So get their buy-in and then just like, now I've got it. Now get them to like defend their problem or like not defend it, but like expand on it more.

Yeah, yeah, that's pretty much it, right? So you get 'em to expand on it and then it's like, why do you see that being the case? And then from there, and then you have the problem And then you dig and you get all those specifics, everything that we're talking about before. Okay.

Yeah.

Now the other instance is external language. So they externalize whatever it is that's going on. Okay. Why is this a problem? Because again, if it's not their fault, then you can't solve it. So generally speaking, for your demographic, outside of just them not knowing what to do, who do they blame? What do they blame? What's going on?

Yeah, a classic one I get is just like, um, they'll sometimes be like, well, it's very hard in like a rural town or something like that, like a small town, which is just a load of crap.

Yeah, right. So it's like, we know it's a load of crap, but we need to get dumb to actually admit it's a fucking load of crap. It's like, um, so it's the same thing. It's like, hey, can I make a suggestion? Or can I share perspective? So it's like, all you're gonna do is you're gonna use a comparative frame. All a comparative frame is, is you're just saying like, hey, these people who've had your problem figured this shit out, why haven't you? So let's just take the real one for example. Say we have worked with hundreds of, you know, let's just say plumbers, in very rural, rural, rural towns that have been able to, like, generally speaking, like what, like what's some like kind of outcome that you'd be looking to achieve?

Like being able to like win or like have, I don't know, higher profit jobs and scale their business. Like that kind of thing, maybe.

Okay, so it's like they have been able to scale their business enough to pull themselves out of it so they don't have to work on the tools.

Yeah, that's all. Okay.

Now again, like, understand, like, this stuff, it's, it's like, it's malleable, it's changeable. It's not like some one-size-fits-all type of thing. You're gonna have to feed off of what they want and what they're saying. But it's just like, basically, hey, we've had hundreds of people in your exact situation who figured it out.

Okay.

Yeah.

So they don't have to be on the tools. And then you re-ask. So you re-ask the question, what do you feel like is missing in your blank or blank that's causing whatever the problem is?

Yeah.

Okay.

So generally speaking, like that's that's how we're going to go ahead and go about addressing those issues. Any, any questions on that or do you feel like that's clear?

That's clear. The only thing I wanted to ask, if you scroll up a little bit to the problem where it's like the or, like why it's important to get some help growing your business now though, like when would you ask that one?

So I would ask something like this if it's like if I don't have enough information or there's somebody who they're relatively new. If I don't have a lot to work off here, this is just like a question that like, dude, you can ask it no matter what. Like, hey, why is it important for you to do this now? Like, that's just a question that if you're ever lost, you're like, okay, shit, how do I get to a problem? This is a real question you can just pull out of your ass and just like get it back on track. So that's really what that's there for.

Yep. That's solid. Cool.

Okay. And then the rest of it is pretty much the same, uh, how you would conduct like a normal conversation. But when we're talking about the externalize, it's like, hey, can I make a suggestion? And we've worked with like hundreds of plumbers that are in rural towns and they've been able to scale like their business enough to actually pull themselves out of the business so they're not actually on the tools. So, so what do you feel like is actually missing with maybe how you're pricing these jobs right now? Or your systems on the backend when it comes to your margins that's causing your business to stagnate the way that it has been, right? Then I re-ask the question. Now again, what you would insert there is going to really depend on the information you have up until this point.

Okay.

Is there any other part of the process that you feel like you are struggling with this demographic?

You literally just did that exact thing to me. You're making me find the problem.

Hell yeah. How do they notice I'm doing it?

You're living and breathing it.

My wife gets the worst of it.

I feel like that's probably the biggest one because like when the people are, I'm just trying to think, alright, let's say when someone's like already kind of doing the same model but they're not at the level that they want to be, if it's like that question that you just have above, like what's, you scroll up again. So let's say they're already in this residential.

What do you feel like is missing in the way that you're pricing?

Probably just say pricing jobs because they're doing the same, the right type.

Yeah.

Or the systems that's causing X. Yeah. The only other thing I'm thinking about is just like when people are, they're not, they don't have like the leads or anything like that.

Like, yeah. So it's just like, hey, are you pricing jobs or how are you? All you would do is you would just switch out whatever this is. Let's just say, you know, finding work, right? So it's like the beauty about like the— this is like, dude, you can mix and match all this stuff. So you're giving them the illusion of choice, but with all of the information you got here, you basically understand— more often you understand what the problem is once you get all this information, don't you?

Yeah, no, that's a good point, because yeah, getting all that, I know the situation, to be able to ask the perfect question to you know, 95% of the time pull the problem out.

Yeah. And it's like, the thing is, we don't want to like just hear the situation. And then what can happen a lot of times is then we just start coaching, right? Or start telling them, but they're not fully bought in. Like, you need to help people come to their own conclusion. And you do it just through the pointed questions that you're asking.

Yeah.

Right. So it's like, people are going to be much more likely to believe themselves if you guide them to the outcome. So if it's something to where they're like, hey, just like right now, you can understand, like, you can see the biggest problem just based off of what's going down is like, oh, like right now I'm just doing word of mouth and none of my guys are full. It's like, okay, so what do you feel like is missing with maybe how you're attracting the leads or your backend systems in terms of profit margins that's causing your business to stagnate the way that you said, or whatever they told you their problem was.

Yep, that's all clear then. All right.

And because like all this changes based off of what they tell you the problem is up here.

Okay.

So it's like you're not, you're not putting anything on them. You're just taking whatever the problem they have and then getting them to blame their current process and systems that you can help with for that problem. That's all you're really doing.

Yeah. And because like of the way that just like this office structure where I'm doing the set and then I'm, you know, coming in, like often many of these things I'm like capturing them on the set call. So I know it's a bit different, but like, would you then just like recap some of this stuff to them or like, yeah, it depends like how long in between calls it generally is. Usually like max 48, 72, like 2 to 3 days.

Okay.

So like 2 to 3 days. Generally speaking, Okay, I would just make sure if I'm going through and I'm recapping, what I'd probably do is recap a lot of this stuff. Like I'd get confirmation. Okay, so we've been doing this 4 years. This is what our current revenue at. And you mentioned that you were having like, this was the main problem that was causing all of that. Is that right? And like, oh yeah, that's right. So it's like, I'll make sure I get this. I'd get reaffirmed here.

Okay.

And then I'd probably just spin right off of it. Okay. And when you say like right now, it's just like your profit margin's so low just because you don't know how to price the deals. What do you mean by that exactly? Can you give me an example? Are there specific times it shows up more? Right? Like how long have you noticed that? And how much money do you feel like you're leaving on the table right now just because you don't know how to price these jobs correctly? That much? Right? Like what type of impact do you feel like it's having on the business? Right? And then I'm right into this process here.

Yeah, that's clear.

So no, yeah, just, just kind of recap it to get them like— because really all we need from them when I'm thinking about this, I just need to know that it's their problem, it's their fault, and then I need to quantify it. If I can get that it's their fault and I can put a dollar amount to it and ideally get an emotion behind that dollar amount, like, I know that person's fucking cooked. You're not getting out. You're giving me all the money in your bank account, right? Like, that's what I need.

Okay.

So if there's like bare minimums, what we need out of problem for this type of person is it is their problem and they know it. It's internal. So they blame themselves. And then I have a dollar amount that that's actually costing them. And ideally I have an emotion, either it be stress, whatever, whatever it would be. So is there any other part of the process you want to take a look at?

Well, if we keep going down, like, to the rest of it. That would be helpful.

Yeah.

So then, like, yeah, go into, I guess, like, the gap from there. Oh, hold on. Okay. The rationale.

Yeah. So besides problem, like, what's the main reason you're looking for outside help to grow your business rather than just hope and pray you can figure it out on your own? Like, this is one that I, generally speaking, for your demographic would ask because I wouldn't say what's the biggest reason you're looking for a coaching program. Normally, because like that's actually the same question twice.

Yeah.

Okay, so what's the main reason you'd be looking for, um, I might change this to professional, get professional help to grow your business rather than just hope and pray you can figure it out on your own. Um, so hey, what's the main reason you're looking for professional help? Now generally speaking, I will not need to ask this gap question. This is here in case you do not get this stuff up here, because in your situation, you should already know what their current revenue is at. Okay? In your problem and you quantifying it, you should already know how much you're leaving on the table. So this gap question here becomes redundant. But like, let's just say for whatever reason in the flow of the conversation, you're like, oh fuck, I actually didn't pull out a number. Okay, it's good to have that here, but generally speaking, you have already gotten that.

Yeah, but do we have that? Like, we have what they're earning and I guess like leaving on the table. Is that different at all to like how much you're looking to make in the business?

So I'll probably ask that differently in like future pace, but in my head, right? Because it's like the purpose of generally speaking, getting that gap question for— I know with what you're selling before is like a real estate, like make money. It's just like, hey, what are you making now? What are you looking to get to? Technically with the biz op, they're not leaving money on the table. So you need to ask, where are you at now? What are you looking to make to get a gap to then go into like, hey, what have we done about solving this problem? To have that leverage there. Okay. But with improvement, you already have a gap.

Yeah.

Hey, you're making, you know, $10,000 of profit per month right now with it, but with everything that we're not doing correctly, we're leaving $20,000 on the table. Um, before we started talking today, like, what have you done about getting these things fixed so you stop leaving $20,000 on the table each and every month? The gap is they're at $10,000, they could be— they should be at $30,000.

Okay.

Does it make sense?

Yeah. I guess the only detail to that is, is like quantifying that gap. If we just go up to the quantify part. Yeah. Like I can understand like if it's someone who's like, I ask questions of like, you know, how many jobs are you getting right now? Or how many leads? Like how many are you actually closing? How many do you think you could close? What's a job worth to you? Blah, blah, blah. Like you could get that gap there. But if it's like some commercial dude, like how would you, how do you feel like you would just ask him straight up? It's like, how much do you feel like you're leaving on the table not having the right systems in place?

And they're like, yeah, well, it's like in my head, yeah, I would just ask, like you can always just ask. Just ask and they'll give you numbers. So that's the easiest way to do it. But in my head, if they're a commercial looking to go residential, like they could get the same amount of jobs or the same amount of, let's even say like revenue, but just with the mechanism being the way that it is, because what's the average profit margin on a commercial?

Yeah, I think it's like 10 to 15%.

Okay, so like 10 to 15%. Let's just say like cut in the middle and say 12. And like, hey man, like how much do you feel like you're actually leaving on the table? Because we're not actually selling the right jobs that has the better margins. I want them to tell me, I don't know. You know why? Hey, do you mind if we do the math a bit? They're like, oh yeah, for sure. It's like, okay, so on average, man, what we're able to get people up to is 35% profit margins. Now I'm going to just assume, because these numbers need to make sense, even the worst case scenarios, I'm going to assume you're nowhere close to the average and we only get you to 25%, right? So that's well below our average. It's still double what you're currently doing now. So if we're talking about doubling the profit margin, if our jobs stay relatively the same, we're talking about doubling the amount of profit we're making each and every month. Does that sound right? Double like Oh yeah, that does sound right. It's like, okay, so right now we're leaving whatever it would be in profit each and every month, right?

Yeah.

So that's generally speaking what I'm going to do. The beauty is if they don't know, we can educate them. It's like, oh, I don't know. Do you mind if we do the math? Sure. Right. Let me tell you, and then I'll get buy-in on those numbers. Again, another good thing that you do to create doubt and to gain more authority.

Yeah, that's good. That's, that's clear on the gap there.

Okay. And then when you, when you're talking about like getting into like understanding buying decisions, solution, like, hey, what have you actually done? Are we getting— I know you said you've been doing a little bit different. Are we getting any type of pushback on this? Or do you feel like if we have— because generally speaking, if you have a good problem, this section is like super straightforward and easy.

Yeah, I think it's one of those like upstream downstream things where I haven't been like as solid on the problem. So then I'm like, just, I'm just sat like with my fingers out.

It's not their fault. So it's like, well, what do you mean? Why haven't I done anything? It's not my fault, right? I have all these problems. That's the main problem you'll run into if we don't get good problems.

Yeah, then I would just sell them on like their, then I'd just be like, pushing more on the goal and then just like identity, but like lacking the problem as much.

Yeah. Yeah.

The problem will really help. And especially cause when it comes to identity, do you ever get pushback on that?

Not really. No, to be honest, on this offer. Okay, cool.

I love when I get pushback on identity, especially if I have good problems, cause it really gives you the space to smack these fuckers around and gain so much more authority. But if we're not getting much pushback, then It doesn't really matter. The biggest thing is we just need to make, like, get them to admit that it's an internal thing that's been holding them back. Okay.

Yeah.

Now in terms of future pace, it's fairly straightforward. It's like, hey, ultimately, like, where are you looking to get to? Why that number? Okay. Let's just say, like, we're able to get you there, like our other clients, like, what would that actually do for you? Right? Get specifics, pull it out of them. You could do, like, in consequence, like a personal story. Potentially I would just use the normal pre-frame for it and then get consequence. Are we having any issues like when we are running them through this process?

Yeah, it's literally, it's one of those upstream things because like if I haven't nailed the problem, like I'm just, it doesn't seem that big of an issue. So I'm like, what happens if something changes? And they're just like, it's not that big of an issue.

So yeah, it's like we really need to make sure we get like good future pace if we, if we don't get good, if we're not getting good consequences.

Yeah.

Okay.

Because if nothing changes, what's the chances you're going to hit this goal in X amount of time? Not very likely.

Because if we get to like a good future pace, even if we don't have that good of a problem, but they're like, oh, well, I still feel like my main goal is to double.

Right.

Okay.

Why double?

What would doubling do for you? Right. You're going from $10K to $20K per month. Like, how would your life be different? So what happens if nothing does change and you stay at $10K and you're never able to actually do ABC? Whatever it would be, right? I could still get some emotions out of them, but if I have better problems, then you're right, it's just going to land a lot more.

Yeah, because yeah, I know I find every time I land the consequence, like they, they just buy because like, yeah, they know, realize, shit, like I got to do something about this.

Yeah.

Give me all your fucking money, bro. Okay, let's go ahead and then let's, let's actually take a look at this call.

Did you end up sorting everything out that you needed to?

Yeah, yeah, I got to hear it.

It is, you know, yeah, 100%.

I mean, did you get a chance to go through that before?

Yeah, I did.

Yeah, did anything kind of stand out or resonate with you from looking at that one?

Um, no, I mean, I understand so about, you know, you know, like in general, so what you are trying to cover and all, and yeah, so general knowledge about Christian Polk works in that style.

Okay, that's fine.

Well, look, on this call, generally speaking, I would just change the word a little bit, like, hey, what did you, right? Instead of like, did you, right? Because it makes it more of a yes or no question. Like, hey, what stood out for you going over all that?

Yeah. Okay.

A question I would always ask them too is like this demographic is like, hey, Like when I'm teeing it up, like, hey, and actually see if you can't, like when we're going over these, whatever you're going over, think about how this could actually impact your business or what might be missing in your business. So then when I like get them on the actual call, I'll bring something like that up. Right? Did anything click in terms of what might be missing in your business that's been causing the problems that we were talking about? Oh yeah. Well, what's coming up for you? Right? So I'm looking for aha moments too. Especially with improvement offers. Okay, it's like I need an aha moment, like, hey, there's something missing, there's this knowledge gap. If I just fixed it, I get everything I want.

I really just want to like spend a bit more time like diving deeper into your business. Are you like, are you dealing with something on the side? Like, let me give you a moment or two.

Oh no, no, no, because I got 3, 3, uh, screens. Okay, good. Yeah, yeah. With my email, you know.

Oh good, just making sure. Got your attention, sweet. Yeah, so I just really want to understand the business a little bit more detail and see like where the gaps are and opportunities are so we can kind of see how that could be improved. And look, obviously, of course we're a business, right? So like we do have the mentorship. If it makes sense to talk about that, we can. We really just want to make sure that you're walking away with like a clear game plan to be able to like grow your business to where you want it to be. Now, To start things off, I always like to just understand, like, what's the number one thing that you actually want to get out of this call so I can just make sure I help the best?

Or service.

I just want to know from you, like, being on this call, like, what's the number one, like, challenge or thing that you want to solve in your business?

Do we— do most people at least answer that better?

Yeah.

This was a bit of a weird one because, like, he said as a service. I think he was talking about, like, the service industry for his business.

Okay, cool.

That I can actually help with.

Yeah, I mean, because yeah, the cash flow in this— so right now is because, you know, I'm most— so mainly I'm focused on the new construction, as I told you. So the problem with that one is, so the payment, you know what I mean? Because I'm getting payment, you know, every 2 or 3 weeks, sometimes 1 month. And then, so as you said on the, on the, on the book, um, I'm, you know, like mostly, you know, um, getting them, you know, the GC, the power to do whatever they want to do with my money. But, you know, it's, it's not the problem. So I mean, um, basically I'm trying to— one of my strategy, uh, for my company should be so the, you know, get people coming, trying to do services. Because as you said, it's basically, it's cash, I mean, money, cash. It's easy to, um, to deal with because, you know, you go in, go out, and pay, and that's it, you know.

Yeah, 100%. And I know also with like the construction, like the margins can also be a little bit tight as well as the cash flow. How are you finding, like, what's your actual like net margins on— I think you're doing about $70,000, $80,000 a month. What do you take home net profit?

You repeat, sorry?

Like, what's your net profit roughly every month?

My net profit every month is about— yeah, I mean, it depends, you know, because it's sometimes— but, you know, for example, last month I get about $175K.

So it's like right there you need to push back and just like, hey, ballpark. Do we get a lot of people who do this? It's because, ah, it just depends, right?

In this industry, because like they get paid on these weird terms, like, like sometimes they'll get like 8 payments in a month and then they'll have a month where they get nothing. So yeah, that's why I try and—

so all you're gonna do, ballpark. Yeah, so This is just something you're going to have to do selling salespeople. I just, I've gotten this habit. Anytime you ask a number like that, hey, I know it just depends, just ballpark.

Yeah.

So that way you don't get this bullshit here. I just depends these, these, these. I'm like, no, bro, I know it just depends. I understand. I do this every day, bro. What are you making? Okay. It'll just help you cut down on the time. Now, for him as well, he's a little bit of a rambler. So, and especially when I can tell like English is not their first language, I'm going to cut him off a little bit more and be a bit more direct.

Right.

He's a rambler. I'm going to cut him off. I'm just going to be a bit direct because again, I don't want anything to be lost in translation. I've just noticed if English is not their first language, you can just be more straightforward and they're not going to get offended the way that a native English speaker would if you're that straightforward with them. Because like, so they don't— so it's just like there's a difference there. You're like, it'll give you a little bit more free rein to be more straightforward with somebody like this.

Okay, because I did, you know, I get a lot of, you know, projects running and then I get paid, get paid sometime, you know, from 2 months ago and, you know, but it's, it's, it's different. But, you know, in average it's gonna be, yeah, well 85, 100K.

Okay. Gotcha.

Too wide of a range.

Are we talking, cause like you said you're doing that 70 to 80K.

Now again, what are these people like, again, I'm going into it. These people are liars. They hide behind nice numbers.

Yeah.

85 to 100. That's a wide range. Well, is it typically closer to 100 or is it typically closer to 85? Like you could be real with me, dude. I'm on your team, right? Just like push back a little bit. You'll get him to admit, oh, it's normally closer to 85. Yeah, it's like, okay, cool. And just little things like that. Again, I'm looking to gain authority. How do I gain authority? When you're talking to somebody and it's like you kind of know you're bullshitting a little bit, like you're not lying, but you're bullshitting, and they call you out immediately, you go, oh, fuck, all right.

Right?

Like, I need to shape up now.

You know what I mean?

So I'm looking for this all the time, very early on in the conversations with these people. Just boom. It's like, hey man, well, are we closer to 100 or are we closer to 85? You can be real. It's like, oh, I'm closer to 85. It's all right. All right. We're on the same team, man.

Okay.

So right now, 85. And on a general, like, just ballpark on a normal deal, I know it varies. What's the actual profit margin that you're making from that?

Damn, $80K per month revenue.

Yeah, per month.

Yeah, yeah. So then like, yeah, that's—

yeah, yeah, that's, that's the average. That's the average. So I mean, it's like, you know, $78K, maybe $80K, $85K a month.

Yeah, yeah. So then like, if we just take like the percentage margin, like, is your net profit usually like 30%, 10%? Like, where would it be sitting, do you think? Like month on month?

It's about my net profits is about, yeah, it's about 50%.

50%. Okay.

Yeah.

That's what's okay. So you're making like 30, 35.

There's no way it's 50%.

I think it's his gross profit. Oh, okay. It should be like after materials, but like, I, I don't think I actually go, cause like, it's like, yeah, 50% should be like gross. And then once you pay your team and yourself, it should be like 35%.

Yeah. You just need to clarify hard on that. We just need to do more work in situation, understanding what's going on to set up problem. Because the issue is if we allow them to hide behind all these airy-fairy numbers or like 50% like net margin or whatever it would be, it's like now we're really diving into things on faulty assumptions that aren't real. Okay. So with something like that, it's like, okay, so it's 50% margin. That's after you pay everyone after every single expense or generally what is it? Oh no, like, right? Or like, okay, so it's like that's 50%, but what do you like— what's going in your pocket every single month? What are you actually making? I'll be more direct. I'll be more specific.

35 to 40K net profit per month. Yeah. Okay. And yeah, I think I was sharing on our last call, like, like the minimum we want to kind of get to per truck is usually like 50K because you got 3 trucks at the moment. Is that right?

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Considering that, like, yeah, like, look, I would say pretty much like the top electricians we're working with, like, they're doing close to like $100 grand per month per truck, which is really more the residential service and maintenance, you know, less issues with cash flow, you know, good margins, get paid right away, you know, less headaches kind of thing that you're dealing with. Um, I'd love to understand for you, like, like, what is actually like your goal with the business? Because some people are happy just like staying where they're at, running it exactly as What?

Gone rogue?

Just gone rogue. Like, what the fuck am I doing at goal now?

Yeah.

Yeah. So it's like right here. Now, with what you did, you just laid out a very, very clear delineation in terms of like a problem.

Right?

This is also a real easy one that you can hook in there in terms of problem. You're like, hey, the best guys are doing 100. On average, we're shooting for 50. Right now, like he has 3 trucks doing 80. So he is underperforming by half, basically. He's doing $26,000 per truck, or $26.6, whatever it is. So, okay, so it's like we're falling short about, you know, like $20,000 or, yeah, like $24,000, like per truck. What do you feel like might be missing with maybe how we're pricing jobs or our margin that could be causing that? And just put it on him, right? So it's like we have like some of the information, we just need to then ask the question to put it on him to pull the problem out.

Just from my mind, like if I just think about like, say this, like salespeople, if that question would be like, well, the average guys we work with, like let's say you are saying it's like average guys I'm working with are making like $30K a month commissions. Like, but you're only making like $10K. Like what do you feel like you are missing? Like type of offers or the way that you are doing your sales process. It's like the same.

Gap.

Yep.

So yeah, so if you have a very clear metric that they're falling short of, like you can kind of throw that out. So it's like, what do you feel like might be missing with what you're doing that could be causing that? And again, if he doesn't know, then that allows us to then put the problem on him, especially if he, what he's doing commercial, right? Okay, so it's like put it on him and then we can pull it out and then dive deeper into the problem.

As it is long term? Like, what's your goal in like the next 6 to 12 months? Like, where do you want to see the business in that time?

Yeah, I want to keep growing because my job is get, you know, like a full team, but, you know, more trucks, more people, you know, involving projects and keep growing up. So that's, that's my goal, to be honest. I don't wanna, I don't wanna stop. I'm not, I'm not feeling good right now, so I mean, I want more and more and more and more. That's why. So when I start So my first years I did $25K in the whole year. So my first year. So last year I did $1,200,000. You know, I mean, it's, it's, it sounds like—

But do you see how he's just talking revenue numbers?

Keep growing up, keep growing up. So that's what I want.

Yeah.

You just said something a second ago that you're not feeling good. What do you mean by that?

Okay, so it's like right there, terrible answer, bro. Subjectively. Hey, what's the goal? I just want to grow. It's like, yeah, fucking no shit, dude.

Yeah, right.

So it's like when we get something like that, again, that's what's going through my head.

Okay.

But it's like, okay, how do we go ahead and address it? Just a little bit of humor of like, hey man, nobody comes to us to shrink, right? Everyone comes to us to grow. What are we actually looking to achieve in terms of actual revenue and profit margin, right? What's actually going in your pocket for the year? So drill down. All right. Of course he wants to grow. What he did, 1 or 1.2 last year. If he did 1.21, like, is he happy? Yeah, he grew. I get it, right? Probably fucking not, dude. Right. So it's like, I need better numbers out of him. And so it's just pushing back on the, on the vague language.

Yeah, 100%. Like the second I start to see him just like not answering the question, just like if he says, I just want to grow, like, yeah, yeah. Like, kuma, and then just like re-ask to be more specific.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. With the, with the, with the goal, like I often ask, you know, financial, like where you actually want to see the business in terms of revenue, profit numbers, whatever. But then I also want to know like what they want their involvement in the business. Like they often don't want to be on the tools. They want to be like managing the business and whatever. But like, are you better off like asking it as like a follow-up versus as like a—

Yeah, I want to ask you one long question. I would just like, hey Christian, And then ideally, how much would you want to be working per, or whatever question you'd be asking? Just ask it back to back, not stacked on each other. Just allow them to answer, then go into the next one.

The what, sorry?

You just said a second ago, right now you're not feeling good in the business. What do you mean?

I mean, I'm not in the, I'm not in my comfort zone, you know what I mean? So I don't, I want to keep running up, you know what I mean? So when I, when I said that I don't feel good is because I'm— I don't, I don't think this is what I want to do. So like, like, this is my, my, my top— I mean, my, my sky. No, I want to keep growing up, you know what I mean?

Okay, got it. And look, honestly, like, the most important part to like what we do, it's not even like your skills as an electrician, because like learning the skills, it's easy. It's like, why is this important? Like, why do you want to actually do this? Because that person gets significantly better results in their business than someone who's just trying to like be a master of their trade. So for you, like being able to grow your business, like it might seem obvious, but it's important for me to understand, like what does that do for you? Like why is that actually important that you grow your business?

The issue is now the friend's fine. Right? The way that you're framing it is fine. It's just like, yeah, we're building this vision on the most vague bullshit ever. You get what I mean? So the likelihood he's going to give you anything specific is super low, or just super, super low. Very, very unlikely he's going to give you anything specific. And then because of that, it's just like more vague realities, and he's just going to ramble about absolute nonsense.

Right?

So like, that's the thing. So we just need to get more specific first and then ask a question like this. So that way it's like, hey, so you going from the point where you're making $100,000 per year, now we can get it up to $300,000 per year, like in your actual bank account. Like, what actual difference would that make for you? That makes it so much more real in his mind. It's like, oh, like, I know what I would do with $300,000. I'll do this, this, this, and this. Why that? And then you can pull more out of them.

Yeah. And like, I've allowed him to give me this general pattern. So he's just gonna keep giving it back to me if I'm not like challenging him to get specific.

Yeah, 100%.

Yeah, because so if I can, you know, keep growing my company— because so I was working my whole like professional life like an employee, and it was— it took me a lot of, you know, like a lot of years to take a decision to get my own company. Right now I know that running my company and getting, you know, like the right, um, you know, management of my company I will have more time for me, for my family, and also to keep running because, you know, I would like to keep running up professionally because I'm an electrical engineer and I would like to get my PE license. I already did the FE license, but that's just the beginning. I need to go up and do the PE and then, you know, try to keep growing up my, you know, my space. Not only do service, not only do new construction, I can do also engineering anytime. I mean, so, you know, anytime. And to get time, my business needs to, you know, growing up with the right person, with the right team, and also, you know, get more time for me, for my family.

Yeah, 100%. That's important. Okay. And in terms of like the business, because I think you said from our chat, like, is most of your work through like referrals and word of mouth?

Now with there, that's when we got the first actual problem. We kind of got cash flow at top, but it's just, yeah, it's time. So it's like using it. Oh, well, how much time are you actually spending? Why are you spending so much of your time? Like what's not allowing you to take a step back? Like we can dig into that. It's another real easy one to dive into in terms of the problems.

Yeah.

Alf, do you have marketing set up to be able to bring work towards you?

No, no, no. That's, that's, that's as I told you by phone. So most of my business is because, you know, like, close reference. So people that start working with me 2 years ago and then refer me to some friends, and then, you know, it's— and I have been, you know, growing it because, because of them.

Okay, gotcha. Okay, so that's definitely like a big opportunity there because, look, obviously referrals are great, connections are great, but like, what happens if the work dries up? Then we're left with like very little. We need to make like a very predictable system that doesn't rely on other people for our business, right? That's what's going to allow us to go to higher levels. Um, okay, and right now, like, just— I want to understand, like, how many team members do you have in the company?

Now with that, instead of like telling him, like ask him, right? And it's like, hey, and just relying on referrals, is it pretty predictable and like scalable with the way that you're doing things? Oh no, it's definitely not scalable, blah, blah, blah. But why isn't it scalable? It's like, oh, I gotta wait on these people, blah, blah. Like, let me pull it out of him rather than me just tell him.

Yeah. I'm noticing even here what I'm doing is I'm just like asking a whole bunch of situation questions get. It's like without doing it at the top to give me the clarity. Yeah. All right.

Is it like, do you guys have, do you guys track metrics across each team member? Like how many jobs they're doing, how much revenue they're bringing in? Do you do any of those?

We are doing that. So we are working on that right now. Okay.

We are working on that. And how often do you guys have, do you guys have any team meetings? Like once a week or?

What does that mean?

Don't know.

Didn't ask. We're working on tracking numbers. And again, now I'm not saying it's like you have to, use every chance to smack them around, but at least take some of them, right? Like he's laying some of these things up for you. It's like, oh, we're working on that. So are you working on tracking the numbers or are you actually tracking the numbers? It's like, oh, well, we're working on it. We haven't yet. It's like, hey, all right, all right, all right. I forgive you, man. Right. Well, okay. So we're at least moving in the right direction. Right. So it's like, again, I'm poking, I'm poking holes. I'm deflating his balloon.

Right.

Like this guy, like on some level, like on some level, he needs to feel like shit, right? And like how he's running the business, especially if somebody who is a little bit overinflated, somebody who's a little bit overly optimistic, they need to be brought down to reality. This guy's overly optimistic. Just want to grow. Just want to do this. Just want, you know what I mean? He's just like forward, forward, forward. Now on the other end, if you got somebody who is like, dude, my fucking business sucks. I'm super stressed out. Like I'm not going to take every chance to smack that guy around. I'm like, hey man, like, dude, you're doing better than I'm going to build them up a little bit.

Yeah.

Okay, so it's like, it's finding that sweet middle ground. He's overinflated. I need to pop the balloon. That's the biggest thing. Just pop his balloon, deflate him a bit, and then you'll— he'll be much easier to mold. That's what I'm looking for, right?

Right.

When we're talking about manipulation, if the manipulation is working, he's just repeating back the things that I'm implanting in his brain. And in order for me to do that, I need to mold them. Which means I need to smack them around and I need to deflate them.

Yeah, it's actually, it's very interesting because now that I'm reflecting on this call, watching it back, I pitched him the like the $20K package, but I should, I should actually do that if I like, I know their numbers really clearly because they should be able to like do it.

But I didn't even have his profit.

I just accepted 50% margins, which is a load of crap. Yeah, it's like, fuck. Okay.

Yeah, just like, dude, they'll hide behind like the numbers. So that's the thing. Just get the real numbers. And then once you, it's like, do you feel any type of way talking to business owners who maybe are like quote unquote, like making more?

Maybe I used to, but now I feel like just because I've just like tried to steal the authority of Alexi and just like so many people he's helped and himself. It's like, if you're not doing $10 million a year in your electrical business, you're not at the standard that he can help you with.

Okay, good.

So that's good. But just also understand that most, most of these people are full of shit. Yeah, right. Like they'll, they'll say the, the good numbers that will lean to them being gleaned in the best light. And for us, especially if we're wanting to poke holes, we need to get beneath it, behind it.

Okay. Yeah. Like everyone knows this is the standard, right?

It really starts as the leader of the company, like holding those standards, you know, through meetings, through processes. Everyone goes through the same thing, tracking numbers so that everyone's accountable. Cause that allows us to like, you know, make sure that the business actually grow. Pros when you're helping people as well. Okay, okay, cool. Have you ever hired or like worked with like a coach or mentor before in the business?

No, not on this business. I have been working with coaching for, you know, another— I mean, when I was in Colombia, but not here. Not for my company.

Any reason you haven't? I'm curious, like why not in the past?

I mean, because— how can I explain? Because, you know, I have my— you know, it's not like my coach, but it's like a mentor. My mentor, but he's on the engineering side, and he was, you know, trying to help me, you know, more of the technical stuff and that stuff. But the thing is that, you know, I create the company, I get my license, I start working, and then I try to do everything by myself. I don't have time to, you know, I didn't have time to get like a coaching on that. And right now, because as the company's growing, right now I feel the, you know, I feel I need it. So because I need somebody, because I'm an engineer, I'm not a businessman, and I need somebody that's able to, you know, like hand me or guide me on the business stuff because I don't, you know, I'm not, you know, especially on that.

Yeah, well, look, I can understand what you're saying. Pretty much everyone I speak with, like, they're very good at their skill, electrical engineer, very good at that trade, but when it comes to the business, you never learn that skill to the level you want. Right. The analogy I give in my personal life is like, I went to the gym for 8 years, got zero results, then I hired a coach for 12 weeks and I got more results in 12 weeks than I did in 8 years because I just paid someone that's already got the result to get me there. And that's exactly what we do here. Like, we don't want to work with you for 5 years. We want you to come in, learn for like 3 months, implement this into your business, and literally be able to double your business in like 3 months with the right strategy.

Okay?

And then you've learned that skill to be able to keep replicating it month on month, year on year in your business, create less stress, better systems. It runs a lot smoother, more profit in your pocket, a better company overall.

Okay.

Now I'm just curious because like some people—

Okay, so there's a huge, huge, huge red flag.

Yeah.

What was it?

Well, he mentioned the time thing, but he felt like he didn't have time for it and I just didn't even realize it on the call.

Okay.

Well, it's like, dude, like an easy one. Now it's like we haven't dived into the time, why he doesn't have the time, what's missing that allows him to not have the time. So it's like we haven't really diagnosed the problem to a deep level that we could have, but on some level it's like, Well, hey man, like I know that you don't have the time, like that's why you're here, right? So how are we ever going to get the time if we never make the time to set these systems in place? You get what I'm saying? They're like, oh yeah, no dude, I want to make the time. It's like, yeah, and I appreciate like you want to, but I have to ask like, why haven't we made the time in the past 2 years that we've been dealing with this? Okay. Or you can just use the comparative frame too. It's like, hey, like every single person we talk to, it's like, dude, they're doing the exact same thing you're they're working all these hours, but they make the time to get outcome, right? So what do you feel like is preventing you from making the time? Another really easy one you can do. So it's like, what is time? Time is external, right? These things are happening to me. Anytime we get an external, just compare it to frame. Like, hey, we work tons of people that have this external and they figure it out anyways. Why haven't you figured it out? That's really it. Makes it super, super simple. Okay, because like the issue is if he's blaming time, it's like I doubt he has more time now, right? Just it's an easy out for him.

People like will just put this off for years or even never do it.

Like, is there any particular reason like why it's more important to do this now? Like, why don't you just— New Year, New Me, just kick it down the road and do it later?

Well, it's because, because as I told you, so I'm still working with, you know, creating my team, like the management team, and we have been getting— I mean, like the information that I got is so that we are losing money because we are not organized, right? So we were not organized. Um, yeah, so that my project manager said that he won't be able— so he's not able to get inside in the call. He said when he tried to put the— I don't know what, I don't know what. Okay, do you have any invitation?

No, no one's trying to join outside. It's literally just a link and then it joins straight in like you did.

I told him, I told him, just— that's what I did. That's what I did. Okay, so, um, the thing is, so, um, the— I'm losing money because I was, I was not, you know, organized on my, um, for my company and I got good contracts, but I'm spending money in the wrong way. You know what I mean? Like paying, for example, because I didn't do the tracking, the right tracking on my team. So we, you know, they waste time and the time wasting is time that I'm paying and it's less money that is getting to my company. And that's the reason why behind everything. So because we discovered that.

But do you see how if we would've just asked the questions up top, we would've gotten that, right? Like he's fully aware. Like here's the thing, he's blaming himself. This is great.

Right.

But like, we just need that earlier and then put a number to it. So then that way when we're diving into why haven't we solved this problem, do we have all the leverage in the world? I can really hold his feet to the fire.

I'm just watching this back and I'm like, am I like retarded? Like, I can't believe I didn't see all these things. Like, I'm watching, I'm like, I'm like writing down, like, ask a question about this, ask a question about this. And I'm just like skipping it. Am I?

Yeah.

Well, it's like on some level, man, like when you're in the call, Again, like our brain's gonna be running, whatever it is, it's always important to go back and watch your own calls to notice the patterns of where you could have refined things and where you could have gotten better.

Right?

So it's always good to just make sure that, again, don't get too down on ourselves because we don't want that to seep into our calls moving forward. If we treat it to where it's more like chess, right? It's like, ah, well, I made a dumb mistake. I'm just not gonna make that mistake again. Right? I'm not now a terrible person because I fucked up in chess, at least like, that's my mentality. Right? Maybe I can go down one of those dark rabbit holes when, you know, when I'm playing late at night. But it's like, I'm not super attached to the actual outcome of the game. You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So if I just think about it, like, hey, ultimately, this is a game that I'm here to get better at. So I can have a bit of detachment from the actual outcome, because I never want the feeling of me not doing super well on a call to then seep into my next call. So it's just something to be aware of and be careful of.

We are losing money because we need more organization. We need maybe some coaching on the business side because we want to grow.

Yeah, 100%.

How much money is he losing?

You're doing $78K a month at the moment, which is great.

Like, fantastic.

You're proud of yourself at that level. But where you're at, like, your business could literally be doing like $150K to $300K per month consistently. So it's like every month that we don't have those systems, those processes in place, we're literally just leaving like $80,000 on the table that we don't have. And it's like, if we just let that happen ongoing, it's like, it's pretty painful. Another $12.5 million, probably more that we could just have in the business right now.

Okay.

And like, let's say you actually had that set up. So you had, you doubled your business, you had that money, nothing worth on the table anymore. Like how would that actually feel as a business owner knowing you've got that set up and you're actually like running it where it should be?

Um, now easier way to do it. Now right there again, you inserted and you gave it to him, but you still got a gap and it seemed like he, he, he did have some buy-in, right? So it's like, hey, we could be doing like 160 double. So instead of like, hey, how would that feel to make double the amount of money? Get the tangibles first. It's like, hey, so you being able to double like what you're currently doing and be maxed out, what actual difference would that make for the business?

Yeah.

And us being able to get systems in place to where you didn't have to work 60, 70, 80 hours a week.

Right.

What would that allow you to do that maybe you can't do now? Oh, I could spend more time with the family. That's what he's going to say, right? Because he's already mentioned a few times. It's like, okay, you being able to spend more time with family, how does that feel? Now I got them.

All right.

So I want to go into tangibles first and then go into the personal.

Yeah.

All right.

Repeat that, I'm sorry, because the storm is killing me, man.

Yeah. I was just saying, how important is it to you to get to that point where we've actually got the business operating at the level that it should be?

On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being don't care, 10 being this is critical, I need to actually make this happen.

Oh yeah, no, again, it's because I think technically, so we are prepared as a company, but I need to see that one, you know, getting back to me like, you know, like money that I can because it's not only that I want to, so I want to keep growing my company, but also personally I would like to do more investment and more, you know, diversify my, my business. So in other way that I can get, you know, multiple, multiple incomes, not only from my company, not, you know, there's some investment, you know, in that stuff.

So that's why it's important to me because, you know, I didn't actually answer the 1 to 10.

No, no, that makes sense. Look, transparently, like everything that you're sharing here, like this is exactly what we deal with on a day-to-day basis. So like, I know what we're doing here, so I'd like to be able to help you. So I'm more than happy to walk you through.

Okay, so it's like overall biggest, biggest thing, biggest takeaway from this discovery is just getting more concrete shit, like pushing back, not accepting some of the baseline stuff, okay? In terms of the numbers, the problems, get more concrete on the goals. If we just have the mentality of like, hey, like I just need to make sure I'm having a real conversation and anytime I hear something that's bullshit, or bullshit adjacent, I'm gonna push back. This goes much better. Okay, now overall, like, it didn't go terrible. We still got out of him that, hey, he's losing money, he doesn't have the right time, and that he feels like it's his fault. We still do got that out of him, but it could have been much taller, much more concrete if we just pushed back and got more tangibles.

Yeah, definitely.

Okay, now with that, how did this call end?

He wanted to talk to his business. I think we, yeah, we want to talk to his business partner, but he agreed that it's his decision, his business partner and team's going to say yes. So that it was ultimately just like he was just going to put time between it. And I tried to push back on the objection handling of that, but didn't get the full over the line. And then he ghosted and then he's never seen again.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, obviously doing this time, so I will duplicate my, you know, my business right now. So it's gonna be— so for me it's interesting, but you know, I need to check, you know, all my numbers and everything to make sure so I'm— I can, I can, you know, take the decision and say, yeah, I will do it. And you know what I mean, I need to, you know—

sounds like money. I need to check all my numbers, right? It's like money. So it's like, okay, just like rule of thumb, Rule of thumb, rule of thumb. When it doesn't make sense, they're just fearful about the money, bro.

Hmm.

Right. So whenever you're thinking like, am I actually having this conversation right now? Like, what are we talking about? It's just money fear.

Yeah.

Okay.

So probably what happened is like he got hit with a number. Like he's a bit deer in headlights. He doesn't want to tell you no, because he's so bought in. He read the book, all this different, you know what I mean? So he's like, oh, well, let me just blame this other person who's not here.

Makes a lot of sense considering how the call went, where he's like, yes, they would do it, yes, they'll listen to me, but I didn't talk about the money. Yeah, dude.

So it's like, let's listen, let's listen.

My team and to them explain them. So what we need to do, because it's important to me also, get the support from my team because I need to explain them. So what I'm looking for, what we need. And then so from there, take the decision and say, you know what, yeah, let's go do it and let's try. So in fact, more now I gotta meet with my, you know, management team. So my field manager, my office manager, you know, we are trying to do a meeting because we need to take some decision in the company, um, with some employees and some stuff that we need to do. And also we talk to them about this, about this, and, and, and yeah, of course. So let's see, let's see what we can, we can, you know, we can decide, we can try to, to, to make.

Yeah, look, the money— yeah, look, like, just money aside for a second and like team conversation aside, if you say it's interesting, like, do you actually think that like what we're going through here is actually worth it? Because if you don't think it's going to work, you don't have to do it. Do you actually think that if you implement it, come in, you learn all these skills, you'll be able to do this?

Yeah, yeah, of course, of course. That's why— so again, so I haven't, I haven't doing, you know, the marketing. For example, I didn't do marketing because You know, I wanna, I wanna be focused just like, or looks like Best Place, or looking for work. And then also something that I cannot—

you're seeing it drill down—

not, you know, like, like be responsible with the people. I need to— if I'm gonna grow, I would like to do it in a method. So in a method that works, that people saying, yeah, these methods work. And that's what I'm looking for. So I wanna be organized at the same time. So grow up, but organized. And that's, that's why I'm— so I think, yeah, it's gonna work.

Okay, cool. So that's good. The second thing is, do you actually want to do it?

Yeah, of course. I want to be, you know, as you said, I want to be one employee of my company. I want to be the boss. I mean, not the boss, because I mean, I want to be the real leader of my company. So when I can address everything, you know, in some time, but I got time for me, not only for my family, it's also for me, for, you know, as I told you, preparation to do my FPX and all the stuff I want to do.

100%. Because look, just so I'm really clear, you're saying you need to talk with the project manager of the team. Like, is this a conversation of like, hey, we're going to do this, or is it like a conversation we need to like get permission from? Like, is this your decision?

Okay, so it's like right there, because like Did I skip too far forward? Did we tie down the money at all?

No.

Okay, so right here, just, just so again, like, we can like map it out so we always like know where to go. It doesn't matter what the objection is. Okay, so we got time, we got money, we got value, and then I would say like the third one you can kind of fit in there is like decision-making process. This would fall under decision-making process. Okay, so if I Let me just share real quick. So if we look here, right, so we got price, then we got the smokescreen. I need to talk to my partner. It's the exact same thing. I need to talk to whoever, right? I need to talk to my team. I need to talk to business partners. The exact same thing. Okay, so always, always, always before I dive into it, it's like, hey, what is that conversation mostly going to be about? Now, he already showed his hands. He already showed his hand. He said, hey, I'm like— he said the numbers. I need to go over the numbers. There was just money at that point. I'm just going right down to money and I'm handling that. And I'm not even talking about the partners, the business. I'm not even talking about any of that. Doesn't matter. But let's just say, for example, he didn't mention that shit. It's like, hey, what's that conversation mostly going to be about? Now, more likely not, he would say, oh, just need to make sure the numbers right. Then we go money. But let's just say, for example, he says, oh, like, that's just how I make decisions. Okay, what do you mean that's how you make decisions? No problem. So let's say you go to the team and they're totally on board. With what we covered, would you do this? Why would you do this? Just all the things that you did.

Yeah.

The thing we missed right here is we need to tie off money. Even if they don't mention money at all, even if they're like, hey, this is how I always— like, Dan, this is how I always make decisions. I'm still crossing money off just because it's like, dude, most of the time it's money. So it's like, hey, does the investment actually work for you? So the investment actually works in your budgetary restraints. If you had to do it today, you could do it. Yes. And if they waffle at all, which he would, you just go money, right? So like that.

Yeah, that's what I missed.

Yeah, dude, like I'm— because like, here's the thing, I'm handling money. Yeah, money is so easy to handle, right? So it's like, if I can push him the money, I'm just gonna push in the money. It's so much simpler to handle, right? It's like, hey, yeah, you're broke. Um, if you had the right things in place, you'd have more money. What are you actually working with right now? Like you just, you drill it down. Um, because we can listen a little bit here.

No, no, I mean, it's something that I need to make sure you understand where I'm going, and I need to improve the answer because I need them support because by myself I won't be able to perform it because I need support from my own team.

Okay, so when you go have this conversation with your team, this is what's gonna be like. Like, how do you get that conversation to go? They're gonna say yes.

No, no, they're going to say yes because he fund my own money.

So it's like, I want to ask the binary there. I get where you're going at. It's like, hey, what happens if you go to them and they say no? Are we, is this totally dead in the water or are we still going to do it? Are you going to allow your employees to run the business and not allow you to get to your goals basically?

Well, he was telling me that we need to jump to the service business because to improve our cash flow because, you know, one of the stuff that we that we have been identified that we need because even though we have good projects, again, the problem is we get the payment 2-3 weeks ahead. So, you know, after we finish and my cash flow sometimes is skewed because of that, because I need to buy material for other projects, but I don't have money. I need to, you know, use my credit card. And that's why I need to explain them. So what I'm looking for and then so just to— I'm looking for like their support, but, you know, I'm the only one that they being the same page that I am.

Yeah. Well, look, the hard thing as a business owner is like, and like by the sounds of it, like it's your decision, they're going to be on board with it. So we already know how that conversation is going to go. Right. So it just comes down to then, are we putting time between our goals and making it happen? Right. If we know we need to do this, we know that they're going to be on board and we know it's your decision. It's like, what would be stopping us from going ahead and actually committing to this?

The money.

Because I need to— so again, I don't need their permission, but I need to, you know, it's important to me because I'm in the moment right now that I want to— I want to—

Now, and then again, if we're trying to get out of him, right, like the partner, right, you want to make the delineation. What happens if you go to them and they say no? Is this dead in the water or we still do it? That's what I need out of him. If he admits, oh, I would still do it, why would you still do it? Okay, so it's like, we know no matter what they say, we're doing it regardless. Not, oh well, we know they're going to say yes, because like, the thing is, then he can always fall back to— this is what he's doing right now. It's like, yeah, I know they're going to say yes, but I need to have the conversation to really actually know for sure, versus doesn't matter what they say. You're going to move forward regardless, right? If they say no, you're still going to move forward because you need to grow your business. That's what I need to get him. Does that make sense?

Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, that's very different. It's like, yeah, because then, yeah, you can just default back to what he did. I need to have that convo.

And it's just like, it's just a fucking loop.

Yeah. Yeah. I could have called back if I had the time again in this situation right now and be like, okay, but let's say they have— you have that convo and they say no. What are you going to do? Yeah, I would still do it.

Okay, yeah, why would you still do it? Okay, so if we're going to do it regardless, then the only thing right now we're fighting is time, right?

Or money.

Then it's like, hey, no matter what. So that's what we need to go ahead and drill down.

Um, trying to do something that maybe I'm not prepared for it, you know, my team is not prepared to— I need to make sure, so they haven't paid for it, you know what I mean? Because if not, I will need to look for, you know, another team to do it, you know what I mean? That's, that's what's important to me. I know what they're gonna say. They're gonna say, oh yeah, let's go, let's go do it, let's go do it maybe this way and that way. So I need to also— them feedback's gonna be important to me because they know what is our, you know, weakness and they know what is our strength. So that's, that's, that's what I'm looking for. That's just that.

The way I think about it is like there's kind of two ways you go about this conversation.

There's like two versions of it.

There's the version of, hey, we're thinking about doing this thing, we're gonna change it up a little bit, like how do you guys feel about it? And there's like, no one is like— everyone's worth a little bit of resistance to change. Or there's the version of you that goes, hey, I've invested in this, this is the direction we're gonna take, this is what we're gonna do, are you in? It's like, which one of those people are gonna be more likely to say yes to?

The second version.

Yeah. So like if we know we need to do this, we know we're gonna say yes, show up as that version. What do we actually need to do? So instead of saying an idea, it's something that we're committed to. We actually show them what we've got. Like what do we actually have to do to make that a reality?

Now really solid frame, right? You're like, hey, like what type of person is gonna actually get a yes out of them? Really lead the team. Now he says the one that moves in our direction, just push back and say why.

Yeah.

Right. Like, well, why would you say that? I do have to ask though, like what happens if we're the business owner that goes to 'em and say, hey guys, I have this idea. What do you guys think? Like, how are they gonna view you? Do you wanna be viewed that way? So what do we need to do?

Mm-hmm.

You know, it's like much more like I get more buy-in, I push back with consequence, then I'm re-asking.

I mean, no, I mean it's just, again, so it's, it's, it's more also like just, I need to process all the information because again, I got a lot of right now in my head and, and everything. So, and, and that's why, so I, I don't, I don't want to take a decision. So even if I know that they wanna say yes and they're gonna say, yeah, let's go do it. Let's go. You know? But I need to also process everything, information, everything that you're giving me right now.

And yeah, he's not sold, you know, I'm taking the right decision.

That's the only thing I need.

So, you know, the hard thing is you'll never know until you do it, right? Because we can just think it's going to work, but until we actually step in and we invest in it, we go through it and implement it, we're not going to know, right? So it sounds like you're looking for like certainty of like, is it going to work for me? But the reality is it's like the only way it's going to work for us is if we do it. So we're going to show up, we're going to put the work in. And look, the reason I'm even saying this is because like it's always a little bit uncomfortable to make the decision to invest in your business, but that's the reason to do it, not not to do it. Because at the end of the day, like, do we grow where it's comfortable? Or do we grow where it's a little bit uncomfortable?

No, no, I mean, no, you've always got to be comfortable. Yeah, of course.

It's going to be comfortable or uncomfortable to see the growth?

No, comfortable.

Yeah.

Sometimes I'm saying like, let's say you go to the gym. Like if I go lift 1 kilo, am I going to go see growth? Because no, because it's comfortable. I need to put myself in a position where it's actually a little bit uncomfortable. It's new. It's a bit of a challenge because that's what's going to get me to my goal.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love this answer, obviously.

Yeah. And just so I'm clear, just so I know with the investment, like is this something that like you guys have $19,600 put away that you can invest in your business or like you don't have that amount of money to put it right now?

Oh no, you got the money to put it right now. That's not the problem. So the thing is, again, so I need to, you know, process information to take the decision because, you know, it's— I haven't gotten into a lot of, you know, stuff and I need to just—

it's just that.

So that's, that's why I can say like right now, yes, he's like, he's not sold. It seems a bit of fear.

Everything.

Now when they're super dismissive about the money, I would always just make sure I double check, but it literally could just be a fear thing, right?

Yeah.

Now it seems like the numbers is his main focus. Because that's what he mentioned right off the bat. But then you ask like, hey, do you have that? And he's like, oh yeah, the money's not the issue. Okay, but you have the $19,200. You could do that right now if you needed to. Yes. It's like, oh yeah, no, I can do it. Now here's the thing. Here's the big key indicator. When I ask a very direct question like that, if they're actually, they couldn't do it, it is logistical, they'll say, oh, I can figure it out. That means they don't have it, bro. So I got to be super, super careful on their language. Do you have it? Like, hey, you could do that right now if you needed to. It's like, oh no, I can, I can figure, I can, I can get the money. It's like, okay, so you don't have it. It's like, okay, yeah, no issues. Like, money aside, is something you go ahead and do, right? And then I'm going right into money.

So for me, yeah.

So just, just on the Miro thing, so like where I should have tied off the money like what I'm asking here, like, does that actually work in your budget? Yes. So you could go ahead right now if you wanted to. Any bit of waffle there, then do you just go straight to like the money? So like I said, money aside, and then just go down that whole path.

Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Right. It's like, okay, then I'll just go down like, hey, like what's riskier? Or ultimately, man, you having to go find the money, not just having it ready to go. Is that a problem or a symptom of the problem? Because we had a business where double, we had better profit margins. Like, would this be that large of an investment for you? Obviously not. So the real problem is we don't have these things in place. Now the symptom is now this is a large investment. Would you agree? So I'm going to ask, like, do you want that to continue? Why not? So are you actually committed to change?

Yes.

What do you have? Yeah, there's normally the frame I'll take them through.

Yeah. My only question is like, let's say it's like the partner thing. It's like, all right, talking partners aside, like, do you want to do this? Yes. Why? Why invest in yourself? Then I tie off money.

But like, if he waffles on the money, like, then I'm kind of—

if I'm going down like the why, money aside, why would you want to do it?

I've just asked that.

Yeah. Did you skip that and go to riskier? Like, just going to frames?

I just get hit.

Okay.

So it's like, because the way where we're thinking about it, I might not ask like the why, but I'm still going to get like money aside, would you do this? The reason being, I want to isolate to make sure like, that's the thing.

Gotcha.

Okay. Because if I do money aside, like, would you do this? And they're like, oh, well, even if like money wasn't an issue, I still need to talk to him. It's like, okay, now I need to really— I would still— okay, we'll put both of them aside and get buy-in, then I'll tie off money, and then I know I'm gonna have to come back around.

Yeah. Okay. That makes a lot of sense.

Yeah.

So you're just trying to see like actually what is the legitimate objection, the real thing.

Yeah, that's the biggest thing. Having a tough time back there.

Yep.

Important to talk to my team, make sure everything is on the same page, and then we'll move forward. Okay.

So what needs to happen? Like what do you need to see from me to be able to help?

Like often in terms of the process, if we just pulled more problems out, we probably have a lot more leverage. And just anytime when I'm in objection handling, when I'm hearing them talk about numbers, just make sure I cross off money. Like, hey, I can do this. I get definite affirmance or affirmative answers that yes, this works. That's the biggest thing that I need.

Okay.

Because if I don't get that, like the issue is it's like most of the time it's the money.

It's frustrating because like, I know that, but then I just don't do it on the call. Yeah.

So it's like what I'm always thinking, okay, time, money, value, right? Value should have been already tied off. Okay. He wasn't bringing up time. So really the last thing it could be is just the money. Because like, here's the thing, if it was free or if it costs like $1,000, do you feel like he would have needed to talk to his team to really make sure like it panned out? Probably not. All right. So it comes down to the money. Even, even it might even be a decision-making process around the money, but it still is the money.

I think, yeah, just even having this, like, it's so valuable. I haven't been as reviewing as many of my calls. I think I just need to watch them more because like I just see those patterns. I'm like, yeah, like, how did I miss that? Then I see it come up on a call next time, like, ah, here we are again. Don't fuck it up again. Yeah.

All right, cool. Is there anything else you want to go ahead and tackle?

I think that's it, man. That's, that's everything. That was really helpful. Thanks.

Okay, cool, guys. Well, like and subscribe, leave comments down below, and I'll see everyone next time.

Peace, guys.