664 -You didn’t go into business to hide & Owning your expert status with Amy Bartko

I'm so excited to have my next guest on the podcast. Thank you so much for setting aside to chat with us all about pr. Amy. Amy Barko has just been announced as one of the top 100 women in America to watch and I'm so excited to have her on the podcast to chat all about pr. Thank you so much for joining us today.

Oh my gosh, thank you so much, Christine. I am so excited to be here and to talk with you. It seems like forever since we've seen each other. Yes.

Oh my gosh, it was so lovely to catch up with you and to spend time with you. So much time with you in the last event when I was over there in November and just get to know a lot more about you and I knew then that I was like, I need to have her on the podcast. It's going to be such a great conversation. So, so excited to have you here and congratulations on the 100 Women to Know. My goodness, what an incredible, incredible accolade. Can you share with us a little bit about how that came about and tell us about it? Like, what an experience.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. It really is an honor. The 100 Women to Know in America is really a sought after award here in the US And I felt so honored to be alongside some of these powerful, successful women. It was just an incredible event. I just got back from it, just received the award on Monday and yeah, I'm definitely still riding the high. So thank you.

Yeah, like when you think about the population of America and to be acknowledged as one of the 100 women, like, that's massive. I can't imagine that's even really landing for you just yet.

It is very surreal, that is for sure. And I mean, I can't even remember what she said. How many people app like were nominated because you're nominated and then you go through this rigorous, you know, interview process and, and yeah, and I received it, so it was really an honor. So thank you.

Do you feel like your experience in PR leading up to this helped you with that application process or was it still really nerve wracking and still hard for you because you were focusing on yourself rather than clients?

Oh, this is a good question. You know, really the questions. You know, we all received the same five questions. They said that at the awards banquet. We all had the same exact five questions and it was really just how, how my path has taken me in pr. Where my path has taken me in me in PR really, I feel, helped me stand out. I don't know if being in PR helped me answer those questions better, if that's what you're asking. I don't. I just feel my passion behind what it is that I do. Just stood out and. Yeah.

So awesome. So tell us about this path, this journey of everything you've been doing with PR and how you do PR differently. Because when we say pr, there's so many different elements to pr. So tell us a little bit about Chatterbox and what you do with pr.

Yeah, absolutely. I know people often ask, it's funny, I used to say I do PR and people are like, what is pr? So now what I say is I'm a PR expert. I specialize in putting brands in front of celebrities featured on television and movies and featured in top tier media. And that really is, you know, what I do and where I'm unique in what it is that I do because I've been doing. Influencer marketing has been around for a while now. Everyone knows what influencer marketing is. But I'm here to tell you that I am an OG influencer marketer. I, I swear I think I started it. I should probably receive royalties for it because I was doing it long before Instagram was even a thing and long before influencer marketing phrase was even coined. But I saw this need because I started my PR career in the baby and kids space. So as a mom, all these celebrities, influencers, you know, people from the bachelor nation and all of that, they're having babies and the, the way that the products have changed, I mean, from when I was a kid, from when my 18 year old was born, when my 12 year old was born, I mean, drastic changes across, you know, product. And I really. An opera. I was about to say opportunity, but it wasn't an opportunity. It was how to make their lives easier. What can I do to help them with their, with the babies that they just had. And so I started, you know, sending products to influencers and celebrities and it really just kind of became a thing. And one of the things that I've been known for in that space is that celebrity and influencer eating. So that is one way that I do things very differently. Yeah. Another way is, you know, by products being featured on television and movies. It's funny because, you know, they, we watch these movies and we never really, you know, think about where the products come from. You know, they're not going to Macy's or to Walmart to buy these products. Brands are reaching out to them, to the production team and putting the products in their hands. And I've been doing that for, oh, gosh, since like 2000. And yeah, for a very long time. I can't even remember how long. Pretty much my entire, you know, PR career, I've been placing products on these television and movies. It's just something that they need. And it also is an accolade for the brand. Right. Because if they, if they see it, you know, if Kate Hudson is. Or Amy Schumer is, you know, sporting the product or using the product in a movie, then people are like, oh, what is that?

Yeah, that's it. And it's great for businesses to get their product in front of millions of people. And having that celebrity endorsement is massive. And it's interesting, too. Like, I don't know if you've noticed. You probably have. Like now when you watch anything on Netflix, it actually comes up at the top and says there's going to be product endorsement. I'm not if it does this in the States, but does it here in Australia where it says there's going to be product endorsement in this movie? So interesting that they have to do that now. But it's funny how, like, since we were talking back in November, like, and how you go about doing that, I've almost like now noticed so much more of it and in so many different TV shows and series where they are so particularly placed, these are really incredible products. And it just booms, these products. It's just amazing that you get to be a part of that, too. How cool that you get to have clients, products be seen in incredible places like that.

Yeah, it is. It's fun and it's, you know, it definitely is something that's different to your point in the product endorsement. So in the US that's actually in the. In the trailer. Are not in the trailer in the credits. Yes. Thank you. In the Indian credits, they say that. But what's interesting is if you notice, and you probably did notice after we chatted in, in November, but they really never show the logos. So if your product is on television or whatever, if it's a. A Polo or an Apple computer, 90% of the time you do not see the logos. If you do see the logos, that means that there was a transaction. You know, there's payment for that. Like one of my big brands, we paid $250,000 for their product to be in the movie. But. And I say that not to scare people, but their product was like, the focal point of. And they still to this day say that was by far their best year.

Wow.

This day. And that was about seven years ago.

Yeah. Wow. Amazing. And like, obviously that might scare a lot of people, but it's not for, not for, like it is for actually everyone. Like, it's not something that. Yeah. Has to be for Coca Cola. Like.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I mean I say that $250,000 placement, that's a rarity. Right. You know, I do placements all the time that are much like 1% of that, so. Yeah, like 1% in cost of that. Yeah. My, my placements because I have such a good relationship with people and typically they're not like, they're not really focusing on the brand name itself. Yeah, you can definitely land those for, for reasonable. But they need the product. That's the, you know, that is the end of the, you know, at the end of the day, they need the product. Like we just filled a toy store on a movie set, so literally filled the shelves of a toy store on a movie set. So that was fun.

Yeah. So that's what you mean by like they need it actually need to put something there. So it may as well be a brand that actually wants to get their name out there. Yeah, that's awes. And PR is not just for product based businesses.

Right.

Like, tell us a little bit more about like the personal brands that you work with and, and other like service based businesses that can also utilize pr.

Yeah. You know, to your point, PR is for everyone. PR is really such an important piece of your marketing plan because I call it the PR formula. So to build, build brand awareness, you need to gain visibility to earn credibility and you'll achieve profitability. So let's kind of talk about that, you know, so the visibility, having that third party talk about your brand is the credibility that people need. Having a third party basically endorse your brand saying, you know, if your brand's in Forbes magazine, you know, whether you're a thought leader, a service based brand or a product based brand, having that third party validation is definitely the social proof that brands need. And PR is not just for, you know, product based brands, you know, to the contrary, it's, it literally is for everyone. If you're a service based brand having that validation behind you, whether you're an esthetician or a med spa or you know, a business coach, having, you know, somebody talk about you really gives you that. Well, and I hate to keep saying it, but that credibility, that third party, you know, validation that they're like, you're good enough to talk about. Right.

Ability, like, I don't think that that's a bad word at all. To use, I think that it's required because in this day and age, like, I think there's so many, so much skepticism, there's so much doubt when it comes to the buying decision that that credibility can tip the scale. For people to be like, oh, I trust you because I've seen your brand here, I've heard it talked about here, or I've seen the connection that you've had here, and you are, I don't know, like, cool by association or trusted by association. Right. Like, that's a huge component that we need to be considering when it comes to our success in business.

Absolutely. It is the trust factor. I like to give the analogy, which it really lands well. So if you have, let's just say a med spa, for example. If you have a med spa that you're researching, you have two med spas that you're looking at and you're diving into their website and everything about them. Med Spa A has been featured in, you know, Vogue magazine, has been on the local best of list, you know, Forbes very well, you know, health, all of these, you know, great publications. And then you have med Spa B that has nothing as a consumer. Which one are you going to gravitate to?

Yeah, the one that's been in Vogue.

Yes. Because you trust it. Just because they've been in Vogue, just because they've been featured by that third party, you. You have that trust level much more than you do for, you know, med Spa B that hasn't been covered in anything.

Yeah. And so tell us about what's shifted in PR over the last few years. Because I know we went through like a huge scene of like, influencer marketing and that kind of went to like, major influences. Then it went to like, micro influences. And I see that that's still quite big as well, because I think it's like the power of like, word of mouth. Right. Like when we see our someone that we like, that we follow, that we can see as someone that we trust and we are reliable. We see the products that they're using and we want to try them or even, you know, the connections that they have or the people that they are surrounded by or the events that they're speaking at and things like that that we want to be a part of. What else are you noticing when it comes to PR? Like, what's shifting for it for 2025?

You know, it's interesting because print magazine was huge, you know, back how I.

Can we say how many years?

Even 10 years ago? Right. Print magazines were huge. Now everything is very digital and at your fingertips. And one of the things that really has evolved is more of the journalists are freelancers, which that's actually a good thing because since they are freelancers, they. A lot of them write for, like, 20 different publications.

Right.

So really, like, nurturing that relationship with the journalist and, you know, becoming besties with your journalist friends. You definitely have that opportunity. Well, 20 fold. Right. Because a lot of them are writing for different publications. That is one of the things that is shifting, you know, very much so is just having more freelancers than before, because they used to work for, like, Conde Nas or, you know, Hearst, all of these big umbrella companies, but there's very few that actually work for the umbrella companies anymore.

Yeah.

So I would say that that's one thing that has shifted quite a bit. But also people leaning into that expertise and really leaning into those thought leaders that are experts in their field and highlighting that, that's super important as well.

Yeah. Awesome. And I feel like, as well, like, there's this element of really being building those relationships first, like you said. So I want to, like, dive into that. Like, how do we go about building those relationships with those freelancer journalists? And what are they looking for, like, when it comes to, like, that expert status, like, what are they looking for?

Okay, so I'll answer the first question first. How do you develop the relationships with the journalist? Okay, so this is gonna sound so creepy, like, in a good way. But you'll be like, really? You really have to nurture them, like, on their social media, you know, be friends with them on Instagram, be friends with them on Facebook, any social platforms that these journalists are on. You should absolutely be friends with them. You should be liking their stuff. You should be, you know, what they had for breakfast, know what their last trip was, you know, with their family. That when you. That way when you're reaching out to them, you can reference something that they recently did and that actually you stand out more. Right. You know, if you're like, hey, you know, your trip to the US Looked amazing. You know, Disneyland. I'm gonna have to do that, put that on my bucket list. By recognizing that and knowing that really helps you stand out and encourages them to open your email every time they get it in their inbox. Yeah.

It makes such a difference, like the amount of pictures that I get for the podcast that you can tell and actually go and look, because they. They either don't follow me at all, so I'm like, what do you know about me or my podcast? Or secondly, they like reference like the line in my Instagram bio or the line in like the first page of my website. And they reference it in such a inauthentic way that I'm like, you actually know nothing about me. Like, it's so obvious. It's always like a red flag to be like, nope.

Well, exactly. And exactly. Which podcasts are, you know, big as well, you. I mean, there are definitely should be part of your PR formula because podcasts are huge. But absolutely. It's so true. And so many people do that. And when you're mentioning the podcast, absolutely, you should be following the podcast. You should have written a review on the podcast as well as listen to the podcast. Listen to it. Because I can't tell you how many times I hear people say, yeah, I have an all woman audience and you know, or I only have women guest speakers on and a man is pitching.

Yeah.

You know, they want to come on to the podcast. Okay, that's a no. So. Yes. Be engaged with who it is that you're pitching and just be their best friend. Right.

Love it.

You know, like in a creepy way.

Yeah. And then back to what you were saying too, with like they're looking for like that expert opinion or expert status, what can you delve, dive deeper into that? Like, what are they looking for?

Yeah, absolutely. Well, like, you're a business mindset coach, right. And so that's your specialty. That's what you, that's what you help people with. So being able to, to pitch you as a business mindset coach, how you differentiate yourself to everyone else that is out there. Right. And really, because we're all experts, right? We, we really are all experts in our field because we're successful for a reason. We've gone gotten into our business path for a reason because we're passionate about it. And so by really leveling up what your zone of geniuses and how you are different from your, you know, from the other business mindset coaches out there, that is what's going to set you apart as an expert and a thought leader. And really, because you can just pitch yourself right. And you know, make it fall flat. But really highlighting how you're different and how you're going to resonate with our audience, that is what is so important with the thought leader expert. How are, how will this land with your audience, whether it's your readers in a publication or listeners on a podcast.

Yeah, love that. And I think that what I'm hearing from you there is like connect the dots. Rather than expect the journalist to connect the dots for you because otherwise it makes it really hard for them to be like, how do we even place you in the right publication? Or what, what am I pitching to here? So like, I think one of the things they're like, I'd love for you to explore further is do you then also encourage, because I know you have like an incredible DIY PR course that people can take. Do you encourage people to really look at like what's happening in the news and like try to relate to something that you do and how you can add your opinion or do you suggest like just making sure that you really connect and like I would suggest you pitch to this freelancer because this, this publication that they work for and actually say this would be good for Smart company or this would be good for Vogue or whatever it might be.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I love this. One of the things that I always tell people like when I do my PR training because like you mentioned, I have the course but I also do one to one training for people that want to do PR themselves. And one of the, or if I'm doing a workshop, I always tell people that the first thing you should do is set a Google Alert up for yourself, for your type of business and for your competitors. Because what that Google Alert will do, it's going to pull in all of the news articles that are written about that, you know, beat, you know, that service, whatever it might be, product, service, you know, all the thought leader, expert. So what that will do with the Google Alert, it pulls in all the news articles. So you know what publications are writing about you and you know what journalists are writing about you.

How interesting. Didn't even think to do this. Yeah, go on.

Yes, yes. And because that literally tells you exactly who is writing about your business, your service or product that you're providing. So that's a huge thing that a lot of people are unaware of. So that's how you find the people that are writing about you. And that also gives you an opportunity because what you can do, I mean say they wrote an article in, you know, July of 2024, you could even reference that article. Hey, I saw that you, you know, wrote this article in July of 2024. And this, you know, resonated with me because of if you ever are looking to write about this again, you know, I'd love for you to consider me. Here are some of the elements that I can provide that can, you know, that your readers will resonate with.

Yeah, I love that, love that. And this is why I think as well like Depending on the stage of business that you're in, sometimes we can have this conversation and be like, oh my gosh, this is something that would be so beneficial for my business. To get incredible eyes on your business and doing it a really effective way. Like yes, it's amazing, but also time consuming. So how much time do you think is worthwhile for a business owner or thought leader to be spending on PR on a regular basis?

If they're doing it themselves? Yeah. Okay, so if, if somebody is doing PR themselves, then I would recommend about 10 hours a week.

Wow. Yeah, that's huge.

Yeah, well, and I say that because it is huge, right? Because there's a lot of research that you know, goes into it, you know, on a daily basis, right. You're getting your Google alerts on a daily basis. You're finding those journalists on a daily basis. You're stalking their social media, trying to find out what they, you know, what they do. There's a lot of legwork that goes into to things before you even write the email, before you even write the pitch. So doing that legwork definitely takes time. That's why a lot of people do end up hiring a PR agency because we have those relationships. We know who would be a good fit for you and we pull all of that information up front. But with my course, I actually kind of, I teach everyone the, the shortcuts, like the good shortcuts, not shortcutting it, but the good shortcuts that will get you where you need to be much quicker.

Yeah, I love that. All here for the shortcuts for sure. It's like as soon as you said 10 hours I was like, oh God, I need, although a team member could help with this too. Like I have, I have a team that can help with it as well. For sure. Yeah, I love that.

Absolutely, absolutely. If you have a va that, yeah, that on your team that has the training behind them to execute thousand percent, they can do it.

Love it. And so can you talk to like the different types of PR that you've done in a way that helps people see that it is for everyone. So a lot of people think like, oh, I'm not really there yet, I need more experience, experience or I need to be in business longer. Longer or I need to have already had some type of pr. Like a lot of people have hang ups when it comes to actually starting doing PR for their business. When is the right time? Who is it for? And can you give some examples of like how it's been done in a really unique way or that will highlight to that this is actually for everyone.

Yeah, absolutely. So the right time to start is yesterday. And I hate to say it like that, but. Well, no, it is, it really is yesterday. Because the reality of it is, is you have competitors out there and your competitors are doing the marketing. I mean, that is one of the pieces that a lot of people leave out when they are creating their business is they leave out that marketing budget or they feel like that marketing budget is, you know, the first, the last thing to implement because it is so expensive. But if nobody hears about you, if nobody knows about you, then they're not, they're not just going to come knock on your door. Right. So by making sure that people know about you, that is the most important thing. So the right time to start printing is when you start your business. Once your card is open, they can, you know, purchase tickets to an event, they can purchase product, or they can book an appointment with you to, you know, to get their business mindset, you know, together. Whatever your business is, now is the right time to start. Because again, having that third party validate you, having that third party credibility is going to make you stand out much more than anyone else that's not doing it.

Yeah. And it's almost like the time versus money kind of element. Right. Like you can invest in PR and save yourself so much time in organic marketing, because that's really what it comes down to. It's like, well, you either choose to spend, invest in getting more eyes on your business and you can accelerate the growth of your business or you can choose. And this is the thing, like sometimes in the beginning stages of your business, the DIY element and spending the 10 hours doing it is worthwhile. Rather than going and posting 10 times a day on Instagram and hoping that that will grow your following. Right. Like, I think that so much has changed on social media and trying to get that reach is less about what you're doing, like posting, it's more about actually how you're getting more traffic to your pages. So I love how you shared that. Like, it's almost. I just wanted to address that because sometimes it's like, yes, it may cost you money to do, but it'll actually save you in so much time. So you just need to make that decision. Are you going to spend the time or are you going to spend the money?

Absolutely, absolutely. And I mean, like we've learned in the different containers that we're a part of it. Spending money is what helps you grow. Spending money on your business is really what helps you, you know, be seen and known and grow. So by not spending the money, it definitely just slows things down. It does. That's what I was just gonna say. It definitely, you know, slows it down quite a bit.

Yeah. So can you share some, some type of unique PR that you've done that might be a little bit outside the box, that someone might be like, oh, okay, then maybe it is for me.

Unique pr. Oh, goodness. I, you know, really, the celebrity and the product play and the product placement on television and movies, even service based businesses, you know, we've all, you know, watched a movie or a TV show where they've, you know, use different Uber or you know, Coke or Pepsi or just like plugging in the words. So there's those opportunities. I would say that by far that is one of the most unique things that I do. And the, the celebrity gifting and the influencer, it's super fun. I mean when like I did a, you know, big holiday gifting and I gifted like 40 influencers and celebrities, 40 packages went out. Right. And about 85% of them actually posted about it.

Wow. Amazing. That would have gotten incredible reach for your, your clients.

Absolutely, absolutely. And they don't always, I will say they do not always actually tag or mention the brand in the post, but having it seen by them is huge because then the brand can leverage that. You know, they can be like, you know, as seen in. And that's one of the things that's really important in the PR world is to make sure that you leverage the coverage you receive. There's so many people that don't leverage it. And what that means is, you know, if you are in Forbes magazine, if you're in Vogue or featured, you know, on television or movies, or a celebrity you know, is seen with your product, you need to tell everybody about that. Put it on your website, put it on your marketing materials, post it on your social media. By doing all of that, it, that is what gets you seen. Because a lot of times it's not the placement itself, it's what you do with the placement after the fact. Yes.

So we've got to maximize those opportunities. And I think that sometimes, like people sometimes freak out when that happens and they get all of this reach. And I absolutely agree with you. I've seen people do that, that product placement and it not be tagged. But then the business, I see them using them as ads. Like they literally record the person, the celebrity using it and then start using that as ads. And it's like such a great Way to. I don't know whether that's legal or not, but I've seen other people do it with like lower level influence as such, where it's like, all right, this person used our products. This is like her, her using the product on a get ready with me and things like that. So I've seen that that has been done really well. But yeah, like when it comes to maximizing the PR elements, is there anything else in particular that you, the shortcuts or the tips that you give when it comes to maximizing it. So putting it on the website, making sure they're telling everyone about it. Anything else?

Yeah, make sure you tell everyone about it and.

Continue.

I mean, a lot of people feel like, say, you know, you were covered in Forbes today, you know, in May of 2025. Well, just because you're covered in Forbes May of 2025, that does not mean that you cannot repost about it in May of 2026. Yeah, it's still relevant. The article is still there. So by keeping that at top of funnel, definitely I feel like that's a good thing. There's lots of awards out there that definitely are PR angles that are great. You know, there's awards out there for business coaches, for women, for, you know, there's tons of awards out there for product based businesses. A lot of, we apply for a lot of my product based businesses for, you know, the best baby bottle or the best stroller or, you know, those type of things. So whenever you see that award opportunity, that again, is another level of credibility. So make sure you lean into the awards that are surrounding your beat.

Yeah, awesome. So good. And so what's next for Chatterbox? Where are you taking this business next?

You know, Chatterbox? I am, I'm really excited to lean into, you know, a lot of the thought leaders and experts in today's world. You know, I started my business with product based businesses and have expanded to service base and, you know, thought leaders. So I'm excited to do that. And also speaking engagements, helping people secure speaking engagements, which is something that more and more people are wanting to do. So we're really leaning into that a lot because being on stage, that's another level of credibility. It's another level of being seen, that visibility factor. Right. You know, just getting out there and being visible. So. So yeah, so we're excited to expand our reach.

Yeah, love that. And what would you say to someone who's considering it but thinks that maybe they're not ready or they're not big enough or they Aren't you know, there's something holding them back from doing pr.

What I would say is Google your competitors, Google your biggest competitor, and see where they're being covered, because you are definitely not too small to do pr. Whether you're doing it yourself or whether you're having somebody else to do it for you, you're never too small. You should. That's one of the things that you should be doing, like, right out of the gate, because it will. It will change the trajectory of your business. It will change where you end up landing. Because wouldn't it be great to be a business that is two years in and you have all of these features already? You know when. And then you're looking at a business that has been five years in and they have nothing. So really stepping out of your comfort zone and just leaning into it. A lot of people have that in imposter syndrome and. Your book that is coming out, turn it into your superpower. So true. I love that. I. I love that. Because don't be afraid to talk about yourself. Don't be afraid to talk about your expert skills and your zone of genius. If you just talk about it more, the more you talk about it, the more comfortable you will. You'll be with it, and the more you'll be seen.

Yeah, 100% agree with you. And I think one of the biggest things that I learned from spending some time in America last year is that Americans, not everyone, like, obviously, it's. I'm making a general statement here, but, like, there is something about the way that Americans are forthcoming with really sharing about themselves and sharing what they're great at. And Australians and New Zealanders find that very difficult. We have the tall poppy syndrome here, which causes a lot of people to play small because they have the fear of being torn back down. And imposter syndrome is massive for everyone. But there is something that I learned about being a part of so many incredible events and meeting so many incredible Americans that they have this incredible skill of being able to really lead with credibility. And it's something that I feel like it's something that Australians really need to adopt because they're so backwards and coming forwards. And so even like yesterday, I went to an event and everyone had to introduce themselves, and everyone was petrified, and they were not really sharing. They were sharing from a place of, like, I'm the battler, and this is what I've come from, and these are the things that I've overcome. Instead of going, well, this is actually what I've achieved. And I was like, we need to do this flip where we are actually so much more comfortable in sharing. This is why I'm great. This is why you should work with me and not be scared, not be worried about being boastful. Because the thing is, if people don't know what you're all about, then I don't know you're the right person to work with or don't know if you're the right fit for that pitch. Right? Like so being conscious of how you're putting yourself out there and addressing the imposter syndrome and making sure that you're being okay with the visibility. Because I think that's another thing that plays into PR is that fear of being seen of like, what happens if I go viral? What happens if I'm now in a magazine article? Like, what are people going to think? How do you handle that with your clients?

So I love this because I actually experienced this myself. So it's funny, I used to tell people I do PR and they literally would be like, what the bleep is pr? You know, I don't know how friendly this is, so I didn't want to, but I'd like to language friendly.

So whatever you want to say is totally fine here.

People would be like, what in the is pr, right? I mean, truly, what is this? And it took me a while to, you know, say what I do, to be able to stand up and say, you know what, I'm a PR expert. I specialize in celebrity, you know, putting brands in front of celebrities, featured on television and movies and in top tier media and that lands so much better. And it's so much clearer than I do pr because people really don't know what the fuck I'm doing with pr. But you know what I'm doing with this, right? I never used to say what I did because I thought people would judge me. I thought I would be being boastful like you said. And I do feel that a lot of people have that, that fear, like everyone around me, you know, if I'm too successful, people are going to look at me differently. And they do, they will. But your people, the people that are your cheerleaders, they're not going to look at you differently. They're going to cheer you on and they are going to celebrate your success. And that is really what it's about. Because you didn't go into business to hide. You went into business to be successful. You went into business to help people. Whatever it is, you know, the business is me. I'm Helping people be more visible. Which is hilarious because I would hide behind all my clients. Right. And I would tell everybody what my clients would do. I also thought my clients would judge me. You know, I mean, if I'm talking about myself and you know, like, they're paying me, so I should be talking about them all the time. Right. And that's what I was doing. So my, my. I give you permission to be as boastful as you would like to, you know, tear down that imposter syndrome and lean into your expertise and start talking about yourself and telling people what it is that you do. And if people around you are going to look at you differently, then those aren't your people.

100% agree with you. It's been a similar journey, like just getting my book out there. I've been sharing an advanced copy with some clients and some friends and family and it like, like the, it's so nerve wracking. And to hear, like, see them reading my book and then giving feedback and it's so, it's so scary and exciting all at the same time, but it's so true. Like, there are absolutely people out there that are absolute cheerleaders, that are so proud, that are like, I can't wait to read it, I'm so excited. And then other people that just like, don't even respond and you're like, oh, okay. Then like, it's so interesting. And it's like this whole journey is exactly what you just talked about. This whole journey of dealing with the imposter syndrome and the fear of the visibility and of like, oh my gosh, what's this going to mean? And yet it is honestly worth it because if I can get this book out there to share with more people so then they can also address the imposter syndrome and overcome it for good, like, that will change the game. And I think that you've got to also believe in what you do to a whole extent. Right. To back yourself. So I love that you shared that.

Yeah, absolutely. And the people that don't respond, the people that, you know, look at you sideways now, they're either jealous, envious, wish they would have done it, and you just end up knowing who your people are.

Yeah. And I think as well, like from a mindset perspective, I always just go like, it's okay because everyone's in different stages of their lives and whether that triggers them, that's okay. That's their stuff, it's not my stuff. All I can do is just focus on what I can control and I Can't control someone else's opinion. I can't control if someone's going to like me or not. And it's not my job to even worry about that.

Right. I mean, have you read Mel Robbins book Let Them Halfway Through?

I haven't read the whole thing yet, but.

Right. I mean, that's to your point. It's like, just let them. Let them have that, you know, I don't need that to weigh me down. Yes, absolutely.

Love it. Amazing. Any last piece of advice you give someone who is starting to put their foot in and dip in their toe to pr.

My last piece of advice would be to really know your audience and know the people, the audience of the journalist that you're looking or podcast that you're looking to reach out to. That's probably one of the most important things. Because you're not gonna. You're not gonna pitch a lipstick to gq. Right.

That would be weird.

Right? Right. And so know the audience and, and know, know your journalists that you're pitching if you know that. And keep your pitch super short. If you have all of those things down, you absolutely could be as successful as I am.

Love it. Love it. Thank you so much for sharing that. I really appreciate it. Where can Everybody find your PR course?

So you can find my PR course on my website, chatterbox brands.com. you can also find me through Instagram or LinkedIn. And it's Amy Bartco. We'll pop it in the show notes. Right? Yeah. So. So, yeah, on Instagram or LinkedIn, you can definitely find all that information as well.

Amazing. Well, thank you so much for being a part of the podcast today. I really appreciate you sharing all of your wisdom and expertise and just your journey with it as well. It's so beautiful to hear.

Yeah. Thank you for having me. This has been so fun.

My pleasure.