694 - Messaging That Converts: Owning Your Story & Writing with Conviction with Lucy Bedewi

The conversation I'm really excited to have today is going to be all about bold positioning and messaging and copy. Because when it comes to standing out in a really saturated market, the way that you speak about your business, the way that you communicate your value is so freaking important. And so I've invited the beautiful Lucy, from my right hand to. Sorry, my right hand woman, to come and join us and talk all about this day. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Thanks for having me. I'm so exciting. This is like such a hot topic right now. Let's.

Let's do it. And we recently met as part of the standout and sellout summit. And so it was such a beautiful correlation to, like, connect all the dots and bring you on to the podcast and talk a little bit more in depth about this. So do you want to tell us, just as we get started, tell us a little bit more about you and what led you to create my right hand woman?

For sure. So I started my right hand woman after I got fired from my first job. I got fired after 90 days. Everyone says, stay at your first job for a year or two. Well, I didn't make it because I wrote a seven page manifesto on why the company would never be profitable after getting scathing progress reports every single Friday. And then I just lost it.

And, oh, my gosh, I need to know more about this. And that is, like, so bold like that. Can we just start there? Like, that is so freaking bold to do that. Love it. Keep going.

And I was 21 years old at the time. I, like, came downstairs. It was during the pandemic. And I told my mom. I was like, well, I don't have a job anymore. And she's like, well, that lasted long. And we just chatted about, like, next steps. And I told her, I was like, well, I think I really want to start my own business. I think I want to be a copywriter. At that point. I had been in a bunch of Facebook groups and I had heard the word copywriter for the first time through a bunch of female business owners. And then I also had my degree in marketing, so I was like, let me just do it. Like, let me just get five clients, give them something for free and get testimonials. And I did that. And the first five clients that I signed in quotes because they were free is they left testimonials that weren't just like, great copy. You would totally hire her again. It's. They were messaging me privately and saying, you are meant to do this. And when I Got that kind of feedback, especially after working for a very rough manager. I just told myself I was like, I think I'm meant to work for myself. But more importantly, I think I'm meant to make successful women successful because of their strong personalities, not despite their strong personalities. And that became the building blocks for Right Hand Woman.

Oh, my goodness, what an awesome story. And then also, like, that sucked. Like, I'm sure that that sucked. There was parts of that that wasn't great. But I love that you had that beautiful confirmation from those clients to be like, yes, this is the path that you should be on. And also how it really activated that within you to be like, it's about being bold. And we're often told as women that we're too much or we shouldn't be so emotional, or we are, you know, expected to be quiet.

Right.

And so sounds like. And I would love to hear from you, like, is that something that really, like, lights you up, that you think about, like, allowing women to be that bold?

Absolutely. I think the things that women are often told are bad. Like, even. Let's just take too emotional. Like, what you just said. We know feelings sell. People are emotional buyers. Even men who say they're, like, logical buyers will go make, like, huge property investments because some guy talked to them over a beer and they felt cool. Like, any. Anyone who says they're not an emotional buyer is literally lying. So if you're someone who feels deeply, if you're someone who can't do the traditional sales copy because you can't help but, like, pour out all your feelings about your offer, okay. Like, write out those feelings in a concise and activating way. But there's nothing wrong with emotions, especially in business, and I think they're absolutely welcome at the table.

Yeah, a thousand percent. I cannot agree with you more. And you're so right. I think that one of the biggest pieces I'm noticing, like, as a sales strategist over the last few years is this shift in the way that we sell. Because I think that we've been selling a lot from the masculine point of view, where it was, like, all the logical sides of things, but the emotional side is everything. And if we're not tapping into those emotions, because I think sometimes as well, we find it hard if we're not natural writers and we don't normally express in that way, it can feel really difficult to, like, really truly express the form of emotion that we want to portray in our copy. And yet it's also always there. Like, it's One of those reasons why we do what we do. And yet there's a way to unpack it and make sure that it comes through your messaging. Right?

Yeah. I think like it's really cool what you said about like the masculine side of sales. Like I'd be so curious what you're seeing in terms of the shifts of like high ticket sales. And then I can even fill in with like some of the shifts I'm seeing that match it or go against it with like messaging and copy.

Yes. Oh my gosh. Love this idea. So, so firstly, like I'm noticing a shift into a form of empathy. So going beyond just like these are the facts, this is what's included. We have to be holding space for people to have a decision to buy. Especially in high tick. I think are gone to the days where people are like, you know, we've had one conversation and then that person converts. Like that just doesn't happen anymore. We're seeing multiple conversations happen before people convert. And it's actually holding people in that emotional resistance to know whether it is the right fit or the right buy for them. And we get stuck in that emotional space because of being burnt in the past buying stuff that really wasn't the right fit for us or was we were promised and like a lot of bro marketing where it was like that people would bolster their packages full of stuff. And you're like, now we look at that and that's a lot of crap. And so we've been burnt in the past and I think that people are really hesitant to buy high ticket again because of that being burnt in the past. I think it's also in the like the lack of delivery after the promise. That's the way probably the biggest one that I'm noticing at the moment. Do you want to add to that before I move on to another one?

I love that you said that because when you specifically said like more empathy and more holding space for the in between, we are also seeing that in copy. I think in a couple of years ago it was all about the attention economy. Like how can you hook people in? Everyone has the attention span of a goldfish. All these different things. And I think now that we have chat GBT and we have tools that will create like half decent stuff for us to throw out there on LinkedIn or on our website wherever we need it. The focus is now on connection building. So I'm seeing, I'm telling my clients, sell more with stories, sell more with things that are uniquely you lean into your differentiators and also don't shy away from pain points and objections like gone are the. You're going make 100k just by sneezing promises. Like, it's okay to be rooted and real and grounded. And it's actually not just okay right now.

It's.

It's the only way you can sell a high ticket offer. Because people need so much more specificity to know that they are the person that's right for this offer and they're being seen where they're at.

Yes, a thousand percent, absolutely agree with you that specificity is so key and they're even looking for forms of high ticket or programs or, you know, people shying away from all in one kind of offerings because they're doubtful of like, am I actually going to truly get the result that I'm looking for? And so that specifically comes in so importantly. And I feel like the other thing as well is this so. Yes, the empathy piece. I feel like there was something else that came to my mind then as you were talking. This level of like, how do I put it? Like holding space, but, oh, like transparency. I think it's gone right from the extreme of like people looking like they have it all together or people buying from people that are like so successful. People are looking for this level of transparency and relatability. You agree with that as well?

For sure. I think it's one of those things where it's almost like a donut. I like to describe it. Instead of relatable and activating, being on some sort of spectrum or continuum, it's like you have to be activating, like that's the outside of the donut. If you're not inspiring people to buy aspirationally, then you know, what's the point? But in the middle we have this like relatability piece. So if you become activating, if you talk about what you're selling from a place of transparency and truth, by default you'll be relatable. So I think it's less about like trying to be relatable because then I think people just try and be this like weird cool girl and I'm like, no, like, show off your weird cat. Like it's fine. But then, but then it's like you want to make sure you're focusing on the marketing that's going to make people see you as the expert, but you're doing it in a way that's still true to who you are because then you'll just naturally have that relatability, like kind of cushioned in the middle.

Yeah. And I've seen like, I've been having lots of conversations recently about people who have noticing a real shift in buying decisions and just things that used to work, not working anymore. And one of the things I'm noticing is that the people who were almost creating a barrier. How do I put it? Like, they're noticing that if they've missed elements or opportunities of really going deep to communicate who they truly are, people are going to other people who are communicating that. So, like, I was talking to someone the other day who's very successful, been been in business like over 20 years. And what we uncovered, why things have been like, dropping off, is that she stopped sharing about her own life and about herself for the past few years. So people aren't as connected to her as they used to be or connected to her versus other people. Because I think sometimes, like, yes, we can be the professional person who's getting the results for the client, certain things, or just creating something and putting it out there. But if we're not fully deeply connected to that person, and especially when it comes to high ticket, I feel like there's a level of lack of trust or lack of full transparency. You're saying that as well?

For sure. I think it's really interesting because when people say like, people aren't buying high ticket, it's like they are. People will always buy high ticket. I think it's one of those things where people are realizing if they're going to put down that amount of money, they want to do their due diligence. So we're just seeing those vague general promises kind of toned down and more of those specific needed results to be toned up. So instead of someone saying, like, I'm going to change your whole life, like, what does that even mean? They're saying things like, you know, I'm going to create this like, very simple scalable system so you can produce more content in less time, therefore saving 10 hours a week, which will compound to this. Which will compound to you being able to do this, this and this. So it's like we are buying results that we can actually tangibly feel instead of results that are just like these wild desires that are on our vision board.

Yes, yes, that's so true. Like that specificity of the actual result. And I feel like. Do you find people are really reluctant to almost go to that level of specificity?

I think so. I mean, one thing I say that I've kind of become known for in my space is your sales copy should be a horror movie for your non Ideal client. I think it should scare them and they should leave. Because if everybody likes you, then no one's going to love you. And people don't buy from people that they don't love, especially if it's a $50,000 offer. So if you want to draw on those people that are absolutely obsessed with you, that tell talk about you to all of their friends, you're going to have to scare away the people who are not right for you. Like, there's no way to play the middle.

Oh my gosh, tell us more how we go about doing that.

The biggest thing I would say is give actual tangible examples. So oftentimes when I see people especially like write out their pain point sections, they'll say like, you're an overwhelmed mom who's doing a million things. It's like, first of all, no one can relate to feelings. If I say, like, you're feeling sad, you don't really know what that means. But if I say you haven't left your bed for five days and the thought of like getting up to get a sandwich feels worse than having to get a root canal canal, you know what that means? So it's like, get hyper specific with what these feelings are. So instead of saying like, you're an overwhelmed mom, say, you know, you're an overwhelmed, like, powerhouse business owner with two littles. And you can't go to meetings right now because they're actually clutching onto your legs. So you need to find a way to market that doesn't put you in the room because you know X, Y and Z. Like, you want them to actually tangibly feel that sensory pain point because that makes them feel like you get them, that you're not just trying to cast a net and like, work with all moms.

I love that. And I've even heard someone speak about this in way of like, think about. Get so, like so specific with the ideal client that you truly want to work with. And then almost like map out the experiences they have throughout the day so then you can try to pull those experiences and then put them into your copy. Because like you said, like, that specificity, it needs to go beyond just the normal term of like, oh, you're overwhelmed and exhausted. But what does that actually relate to? Or what does that end up being like, what's the tangible example of that in their everyday life?

I love that you said that. And especially like, I think people often think that you need to know your ideal client like the back of your hand. Like, you have to know her coffee order. You have to know all these things, you don't really need to know those things. You just need to know the things that are important to your offer in context. So if a part of your offer, let's say you're a business coach, you're a marketing coach, and you help people create content. You need to know about her process for creating content. You don't necessarily need to know if she takes, like, oat milk in her latte. So. So it's like, get really specific on the details about her and her process that actually pertain to the offer.

Yes. I love that connection because the context matters 100%. So talk to us a little bit more. If we were someone in business that really wanted to stand out from the crowd, and we feel like we've kind of been playing it safe, how would we start to stand out and become a little bit more bold with the way that we express our services or the way we express what we do?

I would start with your differentiators. I think this is often where people are playing small. They're so afraid to call themselves the best at something, the only of something, the number one. And you don't have to use that language if it feels a little too, like, foam finger, whatever, but you can find your own way of expressing that. But you have to carve out a place where you're like, I know I'm untouchable here. Because that creates a confidence that now you can start to create copy around that differentiator where you can actually say what you want to say, and you're not trying to, like, blend into some crowd or some competitor.

Yes. Oh, my gosh. I want to explore this even further with you because I feel like I was literally having a conversation about this with someone recently. And. And it's because here in Australia, right? And in New Zealand, we have what we call the tall poppy syndrome. And it is something that prevents people from really going and standing out and being like, hey, yes, I am the best. And so when we look at Americans doing that, it almost triggers us, right? Like, I'm just gonna be super transparent, right? It triggers us to be like, we couldn't say that. We can't be the expert. That's why I literally wrote a book about imposter syndrome because of this reason. And we hold ourselves back from really owning that space because of the fear of being torn down, because this tall poppy causes us to fear that if we stand out from the crowd, then the rest of the crowd will vote. No, no, that's not okay for you. You have to come back down here where we are. So we find it really hard to communicate our successes, our accomplishments, the results that we create for our clients and, like, owning that space. And I feel like, though, it's where we need to borrow Americans confidence and actually start doing that, because the people that are doing that here are standing out, and it is actually making a huge difference for business owners. And I feel like it's one of those things that. And I just want to say this because if there's any Aussies listening, like, please don't take that to be like, oh, I couldn't do that. You have to do that right now. Like, we have to. It cannot be someone because you're going to literally get lost in the sea of sameness of everybody else if we're. If you're not owning something, like, owning that space. And so even if it's, like, not the number one, what. Can you give us another example of, like, how we'd go about owning a specific area of our industry, or, you know, claiming that we work with a certain type of client that doesn't feel like we're saying we're number one or the expert? Because I feel like that would be a huge barrier for a lot of Aussies.

I love that you said that because I work with so many Australian clients, and sometimes when I bring, like, a headline up or something, I'll see them, like, visibly, like, recoil on the car. Okay, Yep. I hear. I see it like, the cultural difference. And you also kind of sometimes see it with, like, working with Scandinavian clients. I think there's, like, this. There is just a different culture, and it's one of those things where if you are primarily serving an Australian market, I would probably not tell you to market like an American because it actually might turn people off. But if you're trying to compete in the American market, it's not that you have to play the game, but you want to make sure that you're still able to stand out. I think if claiming a role or claiming a title or like, taking this, like, expert stance feels really rough to you, like, don't do it. I think you can command authority through a lot of different ways. You can command authority with really strong case studies. You can do it with humor, you can do it with storytelling. So you can find your own subtle ways to do that without saying, like, I'm the number one health coach in the world. You know, you can say, like, I struggled with fibroids for nine months and I was told by OB GYNs that they're never going to get better. And I just. Surgery was my only option, but I knew there had to be another way. So I created like the fibroid protocol for women who want to optimize their nutrition who have this condition. So as you can see, hyper specific, telling a story, showing authority because she went against an authority figure, but a lot more subtle than saying like, I'm the expert on fibroids and nutrition because that might feel really weird to her.

Yes, I love that. I love that. And just getting clear on where you just want to own that space. And I think it's. Yeah. Tapping into your story or finding some way, shape or form, like even like for myself, like to go out and say like, I'm the number one high ticket sales strategist. That would feel completely. No, that doesn't feel so wrong as an Aussie. And I feel like it would also doesn't feel truthful. And I feel like there's level of integrity that is so important to me and yet I was working on this myself actually a little while ago and I was like, but I could be the number one go to for women in business that are done playing small and are ready to break through to their next income ceiling. Like, that feels super true.

Yeah.

Like, it's like finding something in that space that feels still truthful because it's, you know, holding that level of integrity. So, yeah, I love that. And so let's talk a little bit about High Ticket and you anything that you notice as well with with regards to shifting into the high ticket sales element and what you notice with women in business that are coming to you that want to work on High Ticket and their copy, what are you noticing is starting to shift or what are you focusing on that's really helping for ideal clients to sell their High Ticket.

The thing about High Ticket is so much of it is like a conviction game. You know, you can really sell a $97 membership with just really good benefit. Selling the transformation, doing all the right things. When you start moving into High Ticket, there needs to be like a swag or an energy to the offer. And it's really hard to describe that sometimes as a copywriter because it's like Lucy's just like, get the words on paper, like, what are you doing? But it's like if you don't have this like very nuanced opinion that makes people see like you are sure of your own offer. It's very easy to have limiting beliefs on the page that you don't even realize you're Putting on the page. So this is often when I'll talk in the realm of, like, don't hire a copywriter with limiting beliefs. Like, hire a copywriter who's invested high ticket. Because if they don't have these, like, very subtle levers, it's gonna turn off an ideal client. Because it's really hard to sell a $50,000 offer from a sheet of paper. It's just not. It's not the world it was in 2020. And you need to almost start this invitation, starting this conversation, starting the intrigue. And then you have other supporting things supporting the sales page, whether it's your content, your podcast, if you do sales calls, or if you sell in the DMs, like, it's no one thing. But you definitely don't want a sales page that's over promising, limiting beliefs just plastered on the page. And it's really sneaky things. Like, it could be like, we're worth the money. As soon as you start saying stuff like that, it just makes the page look really cheap. So to kind of elevate the conversation, it needs to have that nuance.

Yeah. So true. I just love that you use the word conviction because it's so true. So, like, whenever I talk about, like, the sales element of high ticket, I'm like, you need to believe in the offer more than anybody else does. Because if you don't have that conviction, like, as much as your copy is great, if your content isn't showing that level of congruence with that level of conviction, like, you're, like I said, like, if your copy is amazing, but you're showing up in complete fear or desperation or really uncertain energy in your videos, people will feel that and not buy. So, like, it's so true. There's so many elements to it as well. How could we start to be a little bit more bold? Because I want to come back to this bold positioning, bold expression piece. If there was someone out there that's like, okay, I want to start being a little bit bolder in the way that I communicate. What would be some of the things that you would look at to support them with this?

Yeah. So I think there's two things that are coming to my mind right away. Number one is like, what do you want to say that you're not saying from fear? And it's. You probably know, if you sat down with, like, a transcription and I was like, what are you actually helping your clients do? You would give me some, like, very casual dialogue. You wouldn't be like, well, I'm empowering them to hit 20k months. It's like, no, you'd probably be like, I'm, like, hitting their limiting beliefs. Like, whack a mos. They, like, never have them again. And it's like, cool. How do we say more of that? And if you're not, like, funny or that feels, like, weird. Like, you obviously have your own way of speaking, but I think that's the first thing is just what do you want to say? And then the second thing, when it comes to just, like, bolder expressions, sometimes it's just in the sentence structure. I think a lot of people just say a lot of words, and a lot of the words on our website aren't actually doing anything. So it's like, cut down the words, concise sentences, get to the point. You know, start your sentences on a verb drive action. Get the word I out of there. We don't need, like, I think we know you think you're the one who wrote it. So it's like just doing some of those, like, basic grammatical things to just. Just sound more confident and more bold.

And tell me more about, like, what you're noticing with AI and how people are going really wrong with it with this specific area. Because I feel like as you were talking, I'm like, oh, God, I can hear. I can literally say all the different type of sentence structure and all the crazy crap that people are using with with AI that I feel like I'm. I'm having, like, a love hate relationship with it at the moment. Like, sometimes I'm like, love it. And it's coming up with some really great stuff, and I use it a lot for brainstorming, and it just helps activate certain thoughts. Thoughts for me. And then other times I'm like, this is terrible. Like, I cannot even use this. And it's so hit and miss. And even with, like, primed and even custom GPTs, I'm still finding it's like, hit and miss. So talk to us. There's so many questions I have here. So talking a bit about the experience that you're having with AI and what you're noticing with the shift in, like, copied with AI. And then I want to talk a little bit about sales pages.

Yeah, I actually love AI because it made me make a lot of money when I was on the scene. I'm gonna speak really harshly here. Like, in 2025, the messaging bar, I think, is truly in hell. I think we have so many people regurgitating really boring, bland, vanilla words that they've generated on chatgpt. That they think are good because they sound good, but they're actually not saying anything and no one is connecting to those brands. So in 2023, 2024, business was really saturated. It's still saturated, but because so many people are using productivity tools and we're losing the art of storytelling, this is actually your chance, I think, to really start sounding more human and sore. So I'm not against using ChatGPT. I just think it's really creating very bland, vanilla messaging. And a lot of businesses are, they think they're doing better, they think they're more productive, but then they're wondering, like, why am I not making sales? Like, why aren't people connecting like they used to? And they start blaming the algorithm or the saturated economy. It's like, like, no, like you just lost your humanity. And we know that being a human is like one of the number one things that sell especially high ticket.

So true. So true. And I feel like there's like an energy shift. So I was trying to explain this to a friend the other day. Like, you can tell the difference. It's almost like there's no energy in the caption if you're using it for content and all the email, there's no energy behind it or there's no conviction behind it, or there's just like this, this bland kind of blah. Whereas when it is your storytelling or is you truly putting some energy into it, people can feel that shift. And I've even noticed that, like, I've used it for, like, different parts of my content, just been playing around with it because I feel like we have to get used to it and we have to play with it to see how it works for us because it's going to, like, take over us. We've got to be obviously on the board. But I'm also having moments where I'm like, this is not actually communicating what I want to communicate. And so I need to just go back to, I'm going to write my own content. Like, it's so funny because I go through different waves of like, I'm. I wonder if it's also like being a woman. Like, different parts of our cycle, I find different parts of. There's a certain week in my cycle where I can't make sense of my thoughts to then, like get into sentences. And so then those weeks, ChatGPT is amazing. And then the other weeks where I'm on it and I'm like so passionate about what it is I want to share, everything just comes out of me. Like I can podcast until the cows come home. I can write, I can do a whole bunch of captions. So I'm actually getting into the rhythm of like creating more content when I'm in that week so that I'm, I'm really sharing my message and my thoughts and my expression and my stories. And then other weeks where I'm feeling like I'm not on it as much, ChatGPT helps me clarify my thoughts.

Yeah, I think that's like such a good use of it. I think, like, if it's working for people, go for it. I think there's a way to train chat GPT where you can put in like a podcast where you're like, I crushed that podcast. And you can put in the transcript and be like, can you generate five posts? And then that's like a great starting point because it's you. But I think when we start getting into the realm of like sales copy or those really high impact pieces of copy where it's like one sentence out of place has the power to like turn someone off. Then it's like, obviously use it for brainstorming. Use it if you're having like a total brain freeze moment. Like, I would never want anyone to stare at a blank Google Doc and like hate their life, but I think that's the number one thing to just be mindful of.

So true. And so what are you noticing with sales pages? Like with you working with people in the high ticket space? Like, as to I. I mean, how would I put this? This. I believe there's still a place for long form sales pages. I think it's important. I think that. But what you're saying, like what you were saying earlier around, like, get more concise because I feel like one of the things with AI is that we're so bombarded with so much information. Like there's sometimes where I'm like, I don't want to read that whole thing, like, and I'm skimming, like even with any forms of content because I guess there's so much we're consuming our brains, like getting super overwhelmed. Are you noticing any shift with regards to sales pages of what is working and what's not working with length?

Yeah, I think it's, it's really interesting because we do still see that long form converts. We've also seen shorter sales pages convert. I'm a big believer in anything that's good will convert. So I mean, the thing about high ticket is people are going to have questions, people are going to have objections, and it's Just like you need to ask yourself like, do you want to take care of those in the dms, like one on one or do you want to have a place for people to go? I think when people are invested and the copy is interesting and it really speaks to them, they're. They're going to stock everything, they're going to read the whole sales page, they're going to do all the things. But if it's a quick like low ticket offer with a very specific transformation, then like, yeah, just send them the checkout link. So I think it really depends on the offer. But I like a long form sales page. I like reading it. If someone's kind of funny and they're guiding me through making a purchasing decision and I don't have to get on the phone with them, I would much rather read something. And I think buyers always buy differently. So it's really helpful to have your sales language in multiple mediums. Whether it's a reel, you're showing up on stories, you're going live, you have a sales page, maybe you have some snippets that you kind of have throughout your website. Like the more you can talk about your offer, the better. So. But I, yeah, I wouldn't write off long form quite yet. I actually think we're going to see a resurgence of it as people need more information and also want more storytelling.

Yes. So good. So good. Amazing. And so how would we go about, especially with High Ticket, like we talked a little bit about before, like how we could still bring in some fun and some personality. Talk to us about the differences of that with what people are trying to do with their copy. Because I feel like sometimes High Ticket can be a little bit stale. I always try, like I'm not. I find it really hard to bring in humor because I don't think I'm actually necessarily funny.

I think you're funny.

I'm not sure how I would go about doing that in copy. But like, like I am more like the motivational, like the tough love kind of person with an element of empathy. So like talk to us about how you would weave in personality in, in these types of things.

Oh, totally. I don't think anyone's meant to be funny or provocative if it's not you. I think if you have to do that, you're going to feel so weird. When people want to bring in their personality, they have to really curate a very intentional brand voice. It's not just like a matter of like write how you speak week, but it's thinking, what are the three adjectives that you are. So maybe you have, like, blunt in your brand voice cocktail. So blunt is. It can be a pretty aggressive, like, adjective. So we need to balance it out with, like, blunt, kind, and then maybe, like, direct. Like, that could be a really fun cocktail that could create a really nice brand voice. But a lot of people actually have the opposite problem. They're like, I'm friendly, empathetic, and bubbly. And I'm like, well, that's gonna be such a boring brand voice because there's no, like, medium or maybe even. Even slightly negative tones. And I bet if you met a person in real life who was just, like, friendly, empathetic, and bubbly, you'd be like, wow, this person's, like, so boring. So you need to create that dissonance so your brand voice actually feels like a person.

So can you explain that a little bit further? So how would we go about creating that dissonance?

The number one thing is adjectives. So what I just said. But even, like, building upon that, I think it's just realizing that, like, brands are not perfect. So it's creating in your sales copy instead of, like, what I do in my sales copy is sometimes I'm, like, a little bit arrogant, but then I, like, rip myself on the page. So if you can kind of create that dissonance, whatever way, it feels very, like, true to you. That's what people want to see. So it's like, maybe you make like, a little quip about, like. I mean, I am the best at this thing, but I guess I'll let you decide. And then you put some case study. So it's creating almost that. Like, that taking away the film of perfection. And then people feel like it's more of a human exchange when they're buying.

Yes. Oh, my gosh, Lucy, I love that so much because it's so funny. Because, like, there's. When I think about someone that is someone that I follow online that does really great copy, she's so funny. And so she does the same thing. She, like, speaks to, like, her level of expertise, but then kind of like. Like, makes equipment herself. And it's so entertaining. Like, it makes me read everything that she puts out, and it's so good. But then my Also, my secondary response is like, I could never do that. Like, that feels weird. Like, it's not me. It's like, well, how do I find that balance between, like, my tough love element, but also the empathy piece? Because it's. That's what's me. Like, I think one of the things that a lot of my clients say is like, I'm really in their corner and I never judge. And this level of care and how much I care, it comes across really clearly in my container containers. And then there's a level of tough love. So like I'm holding them to a higher level, a higher standard than they're holding themselves to and that helps them then rise to that next level. And yet it's. That's like the hardest thing to put into coffee.

Like, but I think you said it. Like you said you have the tough love and then you have the empathy. So maybe instead of a quip where it's going from, like, I have a little bit of an ego, but haha, I'm funny. Maybe the quip is like, I'm gonna drop this truth prom that's gonna make you want to leave, but then I'm gonna like soften it with like another thing that comes after it. So it's like you might say the reason you're. You're high, like you have never sold high ticket is X, but. And then a softer statement.

I love that. Oh my gosh. I'm gonna play with that for sure.

So it's like push, but then like pullback.

Yes. Oh my gosh. I feel like this is really going to help people understand how their copy is not landing. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like it makes people go, oh, I can see now. Why my posts aren't getting the engagement is because I'm using ChatGPT and it is vanilla. Like, it is absolutely vanilla. And we're just seeing so much repetition of the same sentence structure. That is really frustrating that it's like, I can tell that that's chatgpt. Like, how do we go about personalizing it, bringing more attention to it? And it's such a hard balance to have because we know we need to create more content, but it's also like, how do we use it to create more content without bastardizing our own message and our own stories?

Yeah, I mean, it's like a chicken and an egg thing. It's. Of course we want more productivity. Of course we want to be a better business. But you know, is our brand worth it? And I think it's asking those really tough questions of yeah, you could probably post five times a week. I think any of us could post five times a week with how many tools are at our disposal. But do you want to risk that one reel that sounds really robotic? Making someone who may have been a good client Unfollow. Because they're like, oh, I don't think she's it. And there's so many people selling high ticket. And I can go elsewhere where I'm more seen.

Yeah. I'm even seeing it more too, with, like, the fake images that people are using with. With AI and I hate it. And I think in. And I'm trying to, like, get that across and letting people know, like, be really careful, because this is your brand. And if you're a personal brand, people want to trust you. Like, trust is the biggest thing. And you don't want to break that by creating some fake image that people can tell that it's AI. It's horrible.

Yeah. And it's like, know your business. Like, if you are a productivity expert and all of your stuff is written with AI and it's like 70% there, like, great, you're showing what you can do. Productivity. But it's like, if you are, like you said, a personal brand or a coach, and you're using these, like, weird AI generated images that show you with, like, designer things, it's like, that's so weird. So it's like, no, no. Where you can cheat based on, like, your industry or your niche and know what's really important to your line of work.

Yeah, Love that. And so when it comes to having this bold expression across our businesses, is there anything else we haven't touched on yet that you feel like it's important that we bring to the table?

I think just think about, like, the movies you love and the novels that you love and the way they kind of pull you in. I think when we talk about being bolder, especially we talked a lot about storytelling, it's not just about like, oh, I quit my job one day and then I started my business. We need to start stories with, like, a bang. Like, I'm sure you remember, like, opening lines of, like, some fiction stories where you were like, whoa, wait, we're gonna start with that. So it's just think about the things that you actually genuinely enjoy reading. Like, take your mind out of copy and then think about how you can use elements in your copy.

Especially, like, I'm noticing as well with, like, Netflix series where they go to, like, this.

Back.

Back to this pivotal moment in the past, and they start with that, and then they're like, oh, but four years later.

And then let's backtrack it.

Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting, but it grabs your attention and that. That's the thing is, like, we've got to have that Attention grabbing, which is really important because it's just so over saturated with so much content that we've got to be the one that cuts through the noise. So yeah, I love that. Amazing, Amazing. Oh, Lucy, this has been such a fun conversation. Tell us next with what's. Tell us a little bit more about my right hand woman and how we can work with you.

Yes. If you listen to this, anyone who's watching the video. I don't know if you do a video podcast or it's just. But you'll see the sun setting on me. It's perfect timing. But for working with me, if you really enjoyed this conversation and want to keep it going, find me on Instagram at my right hand woman. Honestly, just say hi. Even if you tuned into the episode, I'd love to know like who's listening. If you have questions. I'm always on Instagram. I also have in the show notes my quiz link to what's your brand messaging superpower? That one is so fun, especially if you're someone who, when I started talking about the authority piece was like, I'm gonna actually throw up. Because what I do is I tell you your actual superpower in your messaging and how to leverage it so you're not gonna be someone that you're not. I also tell you the gaps in your messaging and the room for expansion. So it's a really in depth resource that gives you like a full messaging diagnosis that's. That's custom to you. And then if you listen to this conversation and you're like, actually, I just want to work with you. I really want you to write my copy. Go to my right hand woman.com on the contact form. Reach out to me directly there and we can get the ball rolling and I can get a feel for what you're looking for. And then we can book in a project.

I love it. Amazing. I'll make sure I put all the details in the show notes and all the links that easy for people to find. But before we jump off, I would love for you to share with us if you were listening to. Sorry. If you were hearing from someone that really wants to take their business to the next level, what would be one piece of advice you'd give them?

Oh, that's such a good one. I think I would say don't lose sight of who you are. I think is the biggest one is just like whenever we're scaling, we try and become something that's outside of us, whether that's more professional, more bold, more provocative, and it's like, stick to your roots, stick to what's been working, and then build around that instead of trying to find that next level of success outside of yourself.

Oh, I love that. Great piece of advice. Thank you so much for being a part of the podcast.

Thank you. It was so great chatting with you.