736- From Personal Brand to Media Empire: What It Really Takes to Become Iconic with Jen Szpigiel

Back in 2025, I had the absolute joy of traveling across to Toronto to attend the High Vibe Women event. And I was so, so lucky to get to meet this beautiful woman, Jen, from becoming iconic and see her present twice. So you were on stage both the VIP night the night before as well as on the day. And I just loved absolutely everything you shared. So I asked her to come on the podcast and I'm so excited for today's conversation. So thanks so much for being here today, Jen.

Thank you for having me. And the feeling is very mutual. You were on that stage and took my breath away. The way you articulate yourself and lead big, beautiful conversations, you are such a breath of fresh air. So that again, that attraction and feeling was very mutual.

Oh, thank you so much. I feel like Christina curates such an incredible group of people and she just knows what she wants for that stage. And I just love, love, love Christina because she always is so connected to so many incredible people. So I'm so glad that we had the opportunity to connect and even get to dive in de today.

Thank you.

So, as we dive in, before we dive into all the fun questions, I'd love to know, being the beginning of 2026, have you chosen a word and if you have, would you mind sharing it with us and the meaning behind it?

Yes. I love choosing a word that North Star, that focus, that intention. I'm very intentional person around a year and mine is excellence for the second year in a row. Because last year when I chose the word excellence, it was really about embodying that in all that I do. But my business was actually going through a bit of a shift in transformation where we really needed to work on the back end. And so the excellence was the not sexy part of business last year. And we did, you know, follow through on that word. This year, it's about seeing that come to fruition, standing into the posture and power of that. So it, it's calling me up and calling me in.

Oh my gosh, I love that. And I feel like that's the most important piece of choosing the right word of like how it calls you forward. Right, like, rather than it be like, it's like setting the tone, setting the expectations, setting your commitment for the year. And I love that you've stayed with it. It's such an interesting, like when I think back to my word from last year, like my, my word was overflow last year and I felt the need to like that. It was almost like a year of like foundational setting for the receiving and so this year I'm like, I feel like that doesn't fit anymore. But I definitely have had years before where I'm like, actually, I think I want to stay with the same word, but I didn't. So I love that you shared that. That's awesome.

Yeah, it just. I wanted it to look a certain way. Last year when I chose that word, it didn't look that way. Hindsight, I realized what that meant for me in a different capacity. But that feeling that, that first initial thought of, like, excellence and how I wake up and how I move through my day and the choices I make, I thought, this is the year. I just, like, you needed to lay those foundational pieces out so that that could come to life. Yeah. So it's. It's going to be fun to see how that all unfolds this year.

Yeah, I love that.

So good.

And so as we dive in, I'd love for you to share with everyone a little bit of your background and about becoming iconic, what it means to you. And before we even dive into the branding and all the things in the magazine, I really just want to know what becoming iconic means to you.

Well, that was definitely a bit of personal accountability as I started to bring this brand forward. And also a little like a nice story that I'd love to share, actually. I had built a massive personal brand with my name in the health and wellness space and beauty, and I had done that for a very long time. It was an eight figure business. It was, it was highly, highly successful. But I was really tired of a lot of the conversations happening in the wellness space for women. I feel like we had outgrown a lot of what we were teaching and. And I just. It wasn't aligned anymore. So I wanted to have a broader conversation with women. I wanted to help women across different industries with different topics of interest. And so I knew I wanted to call it a company name, I wanted to reinvent myself, but my name was so well established in that industry that I was really deciding to go into the company route. And the word icon and iconic just was not leaving my brain space. And I pushed that out. Christine. I did not understand it. It felt so uncomfortable for me. I. Who am I to say iconic or icon? You know, Beyonce's iconic, Oprah's iconic. Like, I'm Jen over here doing my thing. And so I really didn't feel much attachment to it, but it wouldn't leave me alone. It was like this nagging, nagging word. I joined a mastermind, went to Laguna beach in California, as I was really having this unfold and really discussing with the women in the room, like, I, I know I'm supposed to lead this, but I'm really having a difficulty with, with this word. And, and back then, you have to remember too, it wasn't popular like it is today. So I want to say I popularized the word iconic because now you see it everywhere. But you know, in 2019, that wasn't a common word on the Internet. And someone said to me, it was such a beautiful, like, moment. I'll never forget it. She goes, well, don't you teach women to like, become the best version of themselves? And as soon as she said that, I was like, it's not become iconic because it's not a destination, it's becoming iconic, which means pursuit every single day of becoming that great version of yourself, being fully expressed, going all in for the things that are important to you, expecting the best, reaping the rewards. And if it's being a stay at home mom, become and be that becoming iconic mom that is just soaked in the experience of that and pursues exceptional parenting. If it's an entrepreneurship, you know, really look at that leadership. How can you become the leader that others want to follow? So the through line for anybody, whether an entrepreneur or not, is that pursuit of the best self. And as soon as that hit me, there was no turning back. I actually still get God bumps thinking about it because it really is not only what I love to teach, but it is my life's journey as well. And it holds me accountable to waking up every day and being the example of that.

Mm, I love that. I love that so much. I. Last year I had Lindsey Marie from Powerhouse Women on the podcast and she shared a little bit similar in a way of like, she didn't feel comfortable using the word powerhouse, but now when we look at her, it's like, well, of course, right? But it's funny how like, she was like, it was almost like a becoming for her. Like, she was like, I had to step in and own that and allow myself to be seen as that. So I imagine it's, it's been a journey for you as well to really step in and own that and feel comfortable and confident in being able to be like, yeah, I am Jen from becoming iconic.

Yeah. And it's, it's funny and I say this with all humility. People say to me, like, you know that your name on the Internet is iconic Jen, because nobody knows how to say your last name. So basically on the Internet, I suppose when people Are. Are describing me. They're like, you know, iconic Jen. And I, I say that again with humility because I am a woman like everybody else, you know, growing and learning and fumbling forward some days. But at the same time, I do feel how I live my life and what I've built is pretty iconic. I, I wake up happy and full of pleasure and desire, and it's. It's so breathtaking. And really, to me, what I, I feel so many women are wanting to grasp but can't put their finger on it. And it's that again, that pursuit of self that really is the antidote to that feeling that we all want to embody.

I'm so glad that you said that because I feel like so many women downplay what they actually have created for themselves. And whether it's, you know, just a unique way of living, whether it's you evolving beyond the way that your parents parented and you're parenting a new way, whether it's the way that you run your business as a woman, whether it's just being an entrepreneur with a side hustle, like whatever it is, you are choosing your design of life. And I just love that, like owner, allow yourself just to acknowledge that because it is not easy. It is not easy to make change or to do something so different to past generations, like allowing yourself to really own that and acknowledge yourself through that process, I think is really powerful. So I love that you shared that.

Now it is.

Sorry, go ahead, go on.

Yeah, I just, I feel like a great addition to that. So that maybe the listeners can almost contemplate this for themselves is it's never a better than. For me. I don't need to be better than anybody else. It's a different than. I seek differentiation. I seek unique qualities. I seek my specialties that are uniquely mine that were God given. And so that removes competition, that removes ego, that removes pedestaling. Because I don't need to be better than anybody else. I just want to be that great expressed version of myself. And so people listening in as women, especially the idea of us owning our success and, you know, sharing that we are proud of our success can be so uncomfortable. But I believe it's because often it's been through the lens of like comparing and wanting to be better than. We don't have to be proud and better than. We can be proud and different then. And that to me is so sexy. Like, I see that and I get so attracted to a woman in that posture because she, she's liberated, she knows herself and she's not again, like proving she's just being love that.

Yes. That differentiation is massive. And I often talk about like whenever I hear someone pedestaling someone else, it really like irks me and it's, it's so quickly I'm like, no, no, no, don't make yourself less than because you think they're better. Right. Like when we pedestal someone else, whether they have more experience, more knowledge, whatever. But if you pedestal them, you're making yourself separate to them and you're also making their achievements or their success something that's so far out of reach. And I think that that doesn't serve us as a, as a woman, as a human being. If we allow ourselves to see them as human just as we are, we allow ourselves to see like we can create what we want to create and also be celebrating each and every one of us. Like it doesn't have to be that someone is better than them. I think that's just like the old paradigm of like looking at successful, celebritizing people in a way.

Right, right. That's a great point. I love that you teach that and thank you for sharing that because it is just such a great visual. Even when you said that thought, yeah, you're, you're almost like putting somebody out of reach. Whereas we're all in this together. There's just some people that are further down the path than you that have some wisdom and experience to share. But you know, who's to say what you're capable of doing, you can surpass that. I think sometimes we even cap ourselves in what's possible in our success because we pedestal someone's story. It's like, okay, she had a million dollar month. That's incredible. Thank you for showing me that's possible. But what if for you that's small.

Yeah. So good.

Right? But we give so much power over to that. Like that's the be all and end all that. You know, we dim our light, we dim our experience and we don't see what we're capable of. So I love looking at things as inspirational and evidence and what's possible. But who's to say what's possible for us? I mean, I, I haven't met, met anybody who could say what I can and can't do. Because when I put my mind to something, I'll do it. And I know you're the same, you're that type of woman who, you know, you know when you say something and you're going to acquire or achieve or build, you're going to be behind your word. And I. I really wish we had more of that belief in ourselves. Yeah.

It's so needed and so need. And that's why I do what I do. Honestly, I feel like it's all. What it comes back down to is just I want you to believe in yourself like I do. That's so good. So I want to come back to the brand piece because I feel like that shift from personal brand to then business brand would have been such a big decision. If someone else is listening to this and they're like, well, maybe I should do that. What. What would you say are some of the benefits or some of the reasons that you felt like that was the right choice for you to make?

Well, I would say, where are you going? You have to really kind of look at the future of what you're building. There's certain questions you can ask yourself, like, is there an exit strategy? If there is, then a personal brand is difficult to exit because you are the brand. So how can somebody acquire that, take that over? So you have to look at that and really think of like, what am I building? Am I building a legacy? And for me, it's always been a bit of a combination. I don't have a clear exit strategy or plan. I love what I do so much that it's not about how am I going to get out. It's always been about how can I make this bigger and create a legacy? Who knows what the future holds. So from a strategic point of view, that's a really simple answer. Are you wanting to create an exit strategy or are you building this as a legacy? You want to be the faith. That's a really easy decision in terms of being a personal brand or company. And yet what I love and what I'm seeing and I love branding so much, and I think you can probably see it with all of my. My visuals, is the fact that even if you're a company and act as a company, there is a requirement to have a personal brand within that. Now, you know, people really want to buy from someone they trust, from someone who inspires them. So as much as I have a company and an enterprise enterprise called Becoming Iconic or on the other side of me, Iconic magazine, which is a media company, I really still am the face in. In many ways because that's what the connection is. Most people that come across my page feel like it's a little untouchable because my art, like sort of my artistry and the way I like to create is through that visual and it is very polished. And it is very, you know, beautiful. But sometimes that works against me because it's. People assume, women assume that I'm untouchable, that, you know, oh, maybe she's not for me. And I had a lot of that feedback in 2024, coming into 2025. So what I started to do was bring myself back into the company, back into the brand, and that did bridge it, created that connection again. So whether you're running a company or a personal brand, your presence is always required. It's just really more of a strategic direction, to be honest with you, of what you want to build.

Mm, yeah. Okay. That makes total sense. Total sense. And so talk to us what your predictions are for 2026 when it comes to personal brand, because I'm sure that you've had some insights about what 2025 was. What are you going to say or what do you see is going to happen or transpire in 2026 when it comes to personal branding?

Absolutely. Owning who you are and expressing that out loud. I feel like we are all so tired of things looking the same, feeling the same. I, I, I. I'm fascinated, especially in the coaching industry, of how everybody speaks the same language. It's almost like they all just went to the same class and took the same caption writing I got. It's fascinating to me, but where I know that comes from, because I've just crossed into my 20th year, so I was a mentor before there was a coaching industry, and I kind of just fell into it because there became a coaching industry. But what I noticed was this is a little bit of what we just spoke about, where there's a bit of pedestaling. They're learning from their mentors, aspiring to be like their mentors, and so they feel like they need to speak and look and behave like that person in order to have that success. I get it. I understand how that can be sneaky and alluring and seductive. But she's already taken. She's already out there doing her thing. And so what you end up doing is creating a diluted version of her and as well as a diluted version of yourself. So there's no potency in that. There's no attraction in that. It's like, it's just kind of fluffy. And so, as a woman in 2026, I dare you to be audacious. I dare you to find your voice and not in a, a way of, you know, being triggering and, and, and sort of splattering on the Internet, but more of that posture, that poise that I Know who I am, I know what I have to offer. I actually like a little edgy graphic or I like the best thing you can do is stop looking at people in your industry and start looking outside of it. I follow very few people in the coaching industry. Why? Because I don't want to see the same thing all the time. I want to be inspired by creatives and brands and artists and musicians because that's what keeps me thinking and growing and contemplating. So in 2026, there's an absolute. It's not even you should, it's, you must develop your own voice, your own unique way of expressing that. And also I would say another really important piece is like what we're doing right now. Having your face to camera, using your voice in as many ways as possible in a very AI curated world that we live in right now, cynicism is at a rise. I don't blame the, the, the consumers. Is that really gentle speaking or did she just do a really great chatgpt caption? I tell my audience all the time, if it's my voice, I wrote it. I write a lot, I create a lot of content. But I know that that's not true for everything. And so anybody can act like a seven figure mentor, but it's like, where's the meat behind that? The way to show your experience, the way to show the way you give results or transformation or breakthroughs, is to actually use your voice and show your face. Because that cannot be AI gener rated. You'll build trust fast. People will really lean in because people are craving it right now. So that's one of the things you could easily inject into any brand, no matter where you are right now, to really cross that bridge into trust, reputation, identity and growth.

Oh my gosh, absolutely. Like a thousand, thousand percent. We need to like just cut that little bit of the podcast and let that be shattered from the rooftops. A thousand percent agree with you. And I feel like, like this year I feel like, like Instagram lives or live versions of anything, like live in person, live podcasts, like all of this type of live recording I think is going to do really well this year because people are going to crave it because of that skepticism. I 100 agree with you.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, use your voice and, and good for you. I, I love pausing too, and, and saying like, Christine, I host a podcast, you host a podcast. You know, I don't know if people always understand the investment that goes behind this for something that's complimentary for them to tune into, but there's money and time, scheduling and contemplation and thought and preparation and product. Our product that didn't want to come out. Production. There we go. Editing, you know, the, the marketing around it. There's so much effort that goes into this podcast for others to listen to that is completely free. I mean, all you have to do is hit subscribe and download and listen. And so I just want to honor you because I do feel podcasters are leading the way for people right now within branding to show the importance of this and how it can really add that depth and meaning into marketing and branding.

So good. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I 100 agree. Like some a client said to me yesterday, she's like, ah, Everyone keeps telling me to start a podcast, but she's like, that's too much work. I'm just going to go be a guest on everybody else's podcast. I'm like, you do you? But I also just love the medium of doing a podcast. Like, it's so fun. But you're right, it is a lot of work. So I'd love to hear your thoughts as well. Like, on top of what you've just shared, if there's someone who is an established business owner that already has a personal brand, what would you say is something that they need to focus on now to become more iconic? So if we're like taking it to that next level, what then makes them like, if they're already doing all the things that then they would deem themselves to have a personal brand, what would then take it to that next level?

That's such a great question. And you know what gets me excited is I think what's like, what's getting her excited? What's turning her on in life? Like, what makes you feel good? And so her really paying attention to like, what those things are in her life. Like, pay attention to how you're getting dressed. Is your wardrobe outdated? Where you open your closet and you're like, are you wearing sweats because you can get away with it because you're working from home? Are you cleansing your face, putting on a little lippy, putting on a little mascara, doing your hair? Like, what are you neglecting and not doing? Or better yet, maybe the better question is, what would you like to invite in that would up level you as a woman and the way you feel? And why I lead with that is because every time I audit my life in terms of the way I wake all the way through to the way I go to bed, naturally I start to become this version of myself that I want to invite in. When I start to feel that feeling of, ooh, like, I'm really into denim right now with heels like that just. It actually exudes itself into my brand. My voice kind of gets a little more swagger. My voice amplifies. A lot of people have said to me recently, like, Jen, oh my gosh, there's something going on with you energetically, like, what is it? It's so magnetic. It's so attractive. I did such so much work on myself in 2025 with a very well established brand, by the way. And because of that, my brand is now evolving. It's almost like at a grow with me. My. The way I see aesthetics is changing slightly. So I'm like, oh, I'm really liking this, I'm liking that. So we have to be more open to creation and innovation and exploration in our brands. What worked yesterday is not necessarily going to work today. So getting stuck in, you know, well, it worked last year. That's wonderful. I'm so happy for you. There's going to be still things that work this year, but also as a business owner, we must continue to refine. I don't like the word reinvent because it almost assumes, like, you have to like, burn it down and build something new. It's not that when you have an established business, it's refinement, refinement, refinement, refinement. And it gets you excited in your business because it looks better and it feels better and everything flows from there. But it does start with you. And I. I feel like a lot of times people want the brand to lead so they can follow into it. In my experience, the best way, the best way to have energy and magnetism in the brand is you lead and then have it focus, follow, because it will be a true representation.

Yes, I love that. And what I'm also hearing from you there almost is like, allow, like whether you're speaking to women in general or not, like, allow the sensuality, allow your feminine to come through in a way, like tapping into your joy and tapping into what makes you you. I 100% agree with you. When I think about the people that I'm really drawn to at the moment, like on socials or on TikTok, like, it is the people that are really embodying this grounded confidence that makes me gravitate towards them. And you're right, it's in all forms. Like when I even think about. And I'd love to hear your take on this a little while ago, I think it Was, like, a month or two ago. Cody Sanchez, do you follow Cody Sanchez?

Yes.

So Cody Sanchez was on the Diary of a CEO podcast, and she says, women want to make more money. They need to wear makeup. And I was like, wow, I absolutely agree with you. And it's so, like, can be polarizing because I think for a lot of time, we went through this phase of, like, authenticity. No makeup, no filters, like, all of that. And yet I always felt uncomfortable with that. And I don't know whether it was from my corporate career of, like, we were expected to, like, you dress up. You show the respect of your clients with the way that you show up to work. And so I don't ever wear sweats to the office. Even though I work in a home office. I always get dressed for work. And so I'd love to hear your take on this, the way that you, like, like, leading on to what you just mentioned there of, like, how you show up for work.

Yeah. I have this mantra, and it is, I want to be Oprah ready every single day.

Oh, my God.

It comes. Yeah, it comes from my childhood. I had this grandmother who. Who was just so good at making sure things always looked presentable. And what I learned, Oh, I didn't even put two and two together. I'm getting a little emotional. I've actually never thought of this until, like, this very moment. Huh. Ah. What she taught me was paying attention to detail and how details matter and how a lot of people don't pay attention to the detail. And so how that has led into my life now as an adult. And being Oprah ready is I. I've always felt like I want anybody to show up at my door, and I want to open that door and invite them in and not be ashamed that my house is a mess. The floors are dirty. There's dirty dishes in the sink. Like, I want it to be company. Oprah ready. If Oprah were to knock on my door right now, I telling you, even with four kids home on a snow day, she would be able to walk in, and I would be proud to have host her in my home. That also started to be with the way I got ready in the morning. It was like, get up and cleanse my skin. And I don't wear a ton of makeup, but I like to put a little bit on my face. I like a healthy glow. You know, do my hair, put on my earrings, get dressed for success. Because it does ripple into how you show up in the day. And again, if Oprah showed up at my door, I'd be so confused. Proud to be like, I'm ready for you. Not in my sweats. With, you know, so many women have like a messy top bun on their head and, and use it as, like, I work from home. And I've always thought that's such a disservice because even during COVID I would, I would hear this. And again, it's, I'm kind of aging myself in this industry, but I've been around for a while. And how they would say, well, just wear pajamas on the bottom and business on the top. And I'm like, but how do you teach a woman? Like, which one is she? Like, the energy clashes. It's like, are you cozy on the couch watching Netflix and chilling, or are you businesswoman building a multi million dollar business? I don't think you can be both simultaneously. There's nothing wrong with either of those, you know, positions. It's just, what are you right now? And show up as that great version. So you're absolutely right. Like with Cody, I think some people would, women would hear that and think, well, I don't wear makeup. We're not saying that you have to wear makeup to be successful. But do you cleanse your skin and put on beautiful products and spritz yourself with your favorite fragrance and, you know, put on pretty underwear? I teach all the time to my clients, like, you want to be a millionaire, but you're wearing boxed underwear. It doesn't match. It's not. It doesn't work. Everything matters how you do one thing is how you do everything. Put on a pretty pair of underwear. It's the very first thing that touches your skin. And if you do that, I guarantee you're not going to put on a pair of sweatpants, or if you do, it's going to be fun. But at the same time, it's going to encourage you to, like, finish what you've started. And, you know, and so that to me, just to speak on that matters so much, and it fuses into everything you do. You're absolutely right to show up like that for your clients. I believe in that they are paying us for a service, and our responsibility in that service is to give them the best we've got. And I don't believe a sweatsuit, no makeup, your hair not done, is the best you've got for that person who is looking at you to change their life. So you better believe I show up dressed for that.

And it's also not going to change your own life for you. Like, you're not going to Feel energized to show up and lead in a way that needs to be. You need to be leading. It's not going to help you make positive decisions for your business. Like, it's the energy that goes with it is so impactful. So you've got to be conscious of that. Like, you know, I can't sit on the couch and work for my laptop. I am lazy. Like, no, it doesn't work that way. I need to be in my office and I. And whether I'm working a full day or not, like, I am on. So being conscious of that, I think is so incredibly important. And yeah, I feel like I so glad that we agree on this because I went. We went through that phase in Instagram where it was kind of like, it feels like you don't even. You don't even care. Like, you've got no effort, you've not put any effort in. Now, your ideal client really resonates with that look. Or do you? Do you? This is just the way that we're doing us. So, yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to touch on the losing of your Instagram account, because I know that that was a massive transition for you. Can you tell us, take us back, Tell us a little bit about what happened and what it ignited within you.

Yeah, that was. It was awful. It really was. And there's been people on the Internet that tell me I'm awful, that it was so awful. But you have to know what we do and how much time and thought leadership and consideration goes into what we do day in and day on the Internet to build what we've built. And as the solo income earner, I'm responsible for it all. So when that got taken from me, I was hacked. I fell for it. I got an email, said, click the link. You've done something like illegal on the Internet. I clicked it and before I knew it, it was just gone. And I worked really diligently to get it back. I think it would be a different scenario today than it was in 2022, I think, think, well, I hope Meta has done some. Some work to support us because there certainly wasn't anybody. I was relentless and shameless. I was talking to meta employees on LinkedIn, like, literally searching meta employees on LinkedIn to try to get help to get this back, because it was years upon years of thought, leadership and memories. I treated it like my photo album because back then I did have a personal brand and so a lot of it was based around being a mom of four and wellness in that sense, space and beauty and so on. And it was gone and stolen from me. And it felt like a massive, massive betrayal. And also, I was so afraid, Christine, because my, like, my family depends upon my income. So instantly my mind went to, oh my gosh, like, how am I going to pay my bills? Because I put so much leverage onto Meta. Now here's the great news for everybody listening, because I wish I had had somebody that, like, held my cheeks and told me it was going to okay, but I didn't. As a matter of fact, I went viral through that moment because it was everybody's worst nightmare. So everybody had. I had, I think I was on at least one podcast a day for months. Like, I'm talking hundred. It was, it was, it was a viral moment just because so many people feared this happening to them. And so I was this, like real life example of it happening. But here's what's so exciting. What I didn't realize was that I had built insurance in my business. You see, doing email marketing and really caring for my email marketing, I had built this loyal community over here that I could tap into because I had a top rated podcast, I still had access to the community, the most loyal listeners over here on the podcast. So I, I really did realize, like, I have an insurance policy here. If this were to go away, I still have ways to touch my audience. So lesson number one, and I know your audience is seasoned, but let this be a reminder to pour your efforts and thought into these things and build yourself multiple streams or channels, I should say, of marketing so that you never are a sucker to Meta. So I. That was really exciting for me to realize the importance of these things. Then I had been doing it without realizing the importance, so that that took a lead in my business. And also what was really fascinating is I assumed by sending an email and saying, oh my gosh, I lost my Instagram, come follow me over here, that people would, but not everybody did. So that was a really interesting lesson in business to realize, no, they want to play where they want to play with me. If it's email and they love getting an email, they don't want to be on Instagram because they don't like Instagram, then let them be there. And if they want to listen to the podcast, but they don't want to hang out on Facebook, let them be there. So that was a really interesting moment just to realize when we build these channels, your audience will also pick the channels that they appreciate within you, so do a good job at all of them. So losing it was an interesting thing. And I curled into the fetal position. I cried many days and I thought my. My business was going to. To crumble. Suddenly I went back to the. The company name, becoming iconic. And I thought, how dare I. How dare I say this is how you become iconic and teach this and ask women to follow me and. And pour into women and give them life and breathe life into them and belief and not be the lived example in this crucial moment. So it was like literally like Phoenix Rising. I just got out of bed and I thought, I've done it before, I can do it again. And I owe it to all the people that I have asked to follow me or who have entrusted me to show them what I've got and what I mean behind this brand. And that's when I really took on the word iconic. That's when I really took on what it means to become or becoming iconic. And there's been no looking back. I also just. It's an important piece. And that I want to, like, kind of tie this up is I also remembered the importance of quality over quantity. I had quantity, and people would hire me just based on the quantity of followers I had. They weren't discerning. It was also a different culture in the industry back then. It was a popularity contest versus discernment of is this the right person? But I got comfortable. If I'm being very honest, I got comfortable in that. It was easier, quote easier. But all of a sudden, when you don't have that and one person follows and then you have a hundred followers, you really start to appreciate those heartbeats. I actually started calling them heartbeats at that time and not followers because I realized how important that was and what is. What a beautiful thing that someone hit follow and chose to be a part of this with me. And that has never left me. The deep appreciation for every single person that decides to come over. I literally pray over it every single time because it. It matters.

It really does. It really does. And I think that we can get so caught up in the metrics and the data and forget that they're real human beings. And I remember having a conversation with a client recently about this, and she was saying, look, my content's just not doing anything. I'm getting no engagement. Everything's bombing. And I'm like, let's be radically honest. Is it boring? And she's like, yeah, I'm bored with it. And I'm like, do you think if maybe you're bored with it, your people are bored with it? And she's like, yes, oh my God, I get it. And I think sometimes we can get into the constant rhythm of the quantity, right, instead of the quality. And so we have to take a step back and be like, let's actually create stuff that people want to see instead of actually just creating for the, for the fact of creating. And I, I, that's very much my focus this year is this energy of, like, quality and presence and allowing myself to, like, really create unique content that really feels like me, but also is really unique for my ideal client. And I think that we can, you know, take from that what you will, but allow yourself to go, like, what is you coming back to what we spoke about at the beginning of the podcast? Like, get really curious of your personal brand and what your unique flavor is and think about how you can create that unique quality content. Really cut through the noise. Because I think that with AI, there's going to be even more content, even more quantity, which is going to be insane.

It's true. And, and how can we be entrusted with a hundred thousand followers if you don't care for a hundred?

Yeah.

If you don't care for them.

Yeah, yeah. And I always say like as well. Like, if you say that you want 10,000 followers, 100,000 followers, you've got to show up like you have them now. Like, don't wait for them to be there and then go, oh, but then I'll be consistent or then I will show them some love. Then I will be able to give my best stuff. Like, no, no, you've got to act like it is now, otherwise they're not going to show up for you. Do like, I always come back to that level of respect for the people who are following and connecting and reaching out and dming and all of that, because like most people don't. They don't have to for one and majority of people don't. In the way that socials works now, like, people just are just like stalking and like watching. They're not really engaging. And I think that we've got to respect that and know that, you know, it takes a lot for people to like a post. Takes a lot of people to comment, so really honor it.

It's true. You're so right. And also one of the things that's really interesting just to again to talk about the social media piece, I will leave voice notes for new heartbeats that come over and I can't tell you how many responses I get where they're like, first of all, the fact that you left this Is like, you've got me now. Like, I'm, I'm, I'm in. But also all I get are automated messages. I'm not treated like a human being. And the fact that you left a voice note, now I love me a voice note. I'm voice noting all day long. Wrong. But I. It's that those little things that we can do that count and matter, that sometimes I feel like we neglect. It took me losing my socials to understand that. Learn through my circumstance, learn through my experience. Don't have to have a radical thing like that. But how can you go back to, like, what you did to grow it? How can you go back to the way you treated your very first client when you thought, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I have a client like, you know, and you were so worried about impression addressing them. And not that you need to go into that people pleasing mode, but more into that, like gratitude mode, celebration mode. Yes. And be more of that in 2026. If that's all you did, success is inevitable for you, period.

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Oh, my gosh. So good. So we need to get away from socials because you stepped away from socials and created a magazine right. In times where, you know, magazines were kind of like losing their energy. So talk to us a little bit about that decision and talk to us about the magazine because I think what you've created is, I hate to say, but iconic.

It is, it is. And I'm going to own that because I'm really proud of it. Well, that was from losing my socials. I had had lots of people reach out to me and it was just the right question at the right time. God's intervention. And she said to me, Jen, in some ways, like, she was a little cheeky about it. She said, you have a clean slate. Like, nobody's going to know you now. That comes and finds you. There's no history. You can't scroll back. And I do miss that because I wish people could see Jen circa 2016, very different than who I am today. But, you know, letting that go. She goes, what's like something you've always wanted to do that you've never done? And I could feel that she was like almost talking about rebellion and my personality, but I didn't. That's not what I received from that question. As soon as she said it, I was like, I've always wanted to have a magazine and I went to school for fashion. I thought my. I knew from a young girl that I was Supposed to support women to become confident. Like, I just, I, I, I, I remember hearing that, like, it was just given to me. I thought that was going to come through fashion and styling to. I, I always loved watching one of my friends put something on and where she just, like, felt herself or you could see that confidence and where she recognized her beauty and, like, stopped looking at the flaws and started looking at, like, what looked good. Like, I, I, ah, I love that moment. So I thought that's was gonna be how I served women. Well, the, the fashion industry ate me for breakfast. It was way too cutthroat for me and, and just not based on the morals and values that I was really sort of focusing on. So I went back to school for PR in hopes to start a magazine. And then I got married very young and I got pregnant very young, and so those dreams just kind of got pushed aside. I had talked about a magazine sporadically throughout my career. Every time it was shot down. Oh, that, that's like, totally a waste of money. It's not going to make sense for your brand. You know, print is dead. Nobody cares. And so it didn't take much to talk me out of it because I didn't have a big vision and belief. It was just like this thing that was humming. But when I got asked that question that day, something sparked. It didn't even spark. It actually ignited in me, and I was ignorance on fire. I had no idea what it was like to publish my own publication. I had no idea what the role of editor in chief was. I had no concept, clue of any of this. But what I did was do it. And it started 2022. And really, when I look back, it was just really for the brand. It was, I was on the COVID It was full of, like, becoming iconic articles and a really great asset for the brand. But eventually my eyes opened for what was possible. And that, that feeling that I had as a little girl, I was like, like, what if I built this not for me anymore, because I kind of got that, that itch scratched. What if I built something really meaningful for women? What if I got to be, oh, I'm getting really emotional with you today. What if I built something where a woman saw herself through a different, like, set of eyes for the first time? What if women heard themselves on the podcast and were really proud and heard themselves through a different lens? Like, what if I was part of her seeing herself? And so that's how it started to become the iteration we now know of it today, and it's reached millions Globally, I think now I don't even know what we're. We're at. But it was like in 2025, it was 10 million and it is gaining its reputation and people are putting it on their coffee table like I hoped it be. And it's just become not only a beautiful piece for women to gift themselves, to remember, to pause and savor and remember and flip pages, the nostalgia of that, but also I've built a platform that spotlights women and gives them something really meaningful for visibility and that type of opportunity as well.

Oh, my goodness. I. I just want to take a moment just to really acknowledge you in what you've created, because that. That level of vision where it's not just like, I just want to have a magazine like, it's that true mission to really see women in the way that. Because you're so right that they don't see themselves, they don't see their power, they don't see their potential. We hold ourselves back. We don't really see how other people perceive us in such beautiful lights. And so I love that you've created a medium to be able to do that. It's so beautiful, so beautiful. So thank you for taking the time to create that. And I'm sure it's not an easy thing to continue to. To create. And I am absolutely love that. What you mentioned at the beginning actually of the podcast today, around your unique take on visuals, I feel like that is. It shines. It really does shine through, like your attention to detail and you real care behind it. So I think that, that's why I think it does so well as well, because of the meticulousness that you have around the imagery and how that is really felt in the pages. So really honoring you in that. So talk to us a little bit about the leadership shifts that you feel like you've had to have to create this level of expansion with the magazine. I'm sure that that's been challenging every step of the way. And I. You can take where. What you want, what direction you want to go with this question. It can be leadership in effective like leading team, or it could be leadership in the way that you lead yourself. Whatever feels right for you to share.

Well, it's interesting because my brain did split in both directions when you asked that question. I was like, there's personal leadership and there's team leadership. Let me start with team because again, knowing your audience have seasoned businesses, so I assume they have team members, I. I feel like I could add some value through the experience that I've had in my leadership of this. So, you know, I feel like as women, specifically, we. We make things mean more and we add drama to things that don't need to be dramatized. It's just. It's just who we are. I love that part of us, but I also think we can do better. So I had to learn leadership and leading a team without wanting them to always like who I am and being okay with the discomfort of them not necessarily seeing what I'm seeing, and also just realizing sometimes you're just complete. It doesn't mean anything went wrong. So I had to let someone go on the team. And again, it was like nothing went wrong. She wasn't doing a bad job. It's just as the business started to exponentially grow, she just wasn't the right person for that growth. She was a great person for a small business, not a great person in a within a team environment. And so I had to let her go. One of the hardest things, because I loved her, I appreciated her. She did a great job. But what I learned in that, one of my greatest leadership skills and what I was able to really take with me is, number one, you have to have crucial conversations. Don't avoid giving feedback. I wish I had given more feedback. I don't think that there would have been a different result. But I do feel she was a little stunned in this, the separation when we decided to separate. So I took responsibility. That's personal leadership. I took the responsibility to go, okay, you avoided giving feedback because it was easier just to brush it under the carpet than it was to potentially have a bit of conflict or discomfort, effort. So that's the first thing is we can't be leaders and want to be liked all the time. We've got to be great leaders wanting the best for others all the time. And sometimes the best for others is giving hard feedback, crucial feedback. So that was that. The other thing too is just, you know, there. People wanted to create drama in that, but there was none. And so how I led that was. I'm really proud because I just didn't feed into it. It was like, there's no drama, there's no story, Nothing, you know, crazy happened. It was just time for us to go our own way. And so that. That's a great thing just to remember too. It doesn't have to mean too much if there's someone on your team that did a great job, but that chapter is closed. You've graduated from one another graduate. I think about that even by friendships. It doesn't mean something went wrong. We just had this wonderful, beautiful chapter together. That's what it was meant for. And now, you know, we're kind of going in different directions. So that, that leadership with team, the ability to hold standards, to really have hard conversations sometimes, to not always be liked, but I always am respected. I know they respect me because I'm going to tell the truth in a loving way, has really created a company culture now that I feel is so special and wonderful. It took a minute, it took some people, it was a bit of a revolving door, like early 2000 and twenties. But I got to a place now where I have the most stunning, beautiful team and we respect, appreciate and celebrate one another daily. The personal leadership is that personal belief when the evidence isn't there. It's so easy to give up. It really is. It's not easy to keep going. It is easy to say this is just not working. This is self, self funded ignorance on fire. Like I said, I didn't have the skill set for this. I didn't go to, you know, I went to school for PR years ago. That's, I don't even remember what the courses were. So, you know, that personal belief and the willingness to see it through is something I, I really celebrate in a world where I feel like a lot of people want quick hits, quick dopamine hits or money wins or validation. I have not, not gotten a lot of validation with this magazine until it started to gain its reputation. There was a lot of issues and iterations that went out where you were like, does anybody? Yes. See. But I, I believe the leadership required in those moments is to let your vision be bigger than your excuses or all the reasons why to quit. There's always going to be reasons to quit. Always. Every day there's something I could find about, of why not to. But my vision's so big and I hold myself so accountable to that that I believe that type of leadership is really what creates legacy businesses, businesses that stand and withstand the test of time a thousand percent.

And I feel like the perfect word is time. And I feel like we can get so caught up in exactly what you said, like looking for that validation or recognition too early and expecting people to see your vision, believe in your vision, back your vision in the early days when they aren't seeing it all just yet. And that's okay. Like, I literally had a conversation with a client yesterday who's building a YouTube channel and I think she's up to like six videos and she's getting disheartened And I'm like, how many videos do you think it's going to take before people are paying attention and are showing up consistently for you? And she was like, oh yeah, a lot more.

Yeah.

I'm like, yeah, like what are you really building? And you, what vision are you holding? Like, you've got to keep taking the action and don't judge it. Yes, you want to measure it and get data from it and learn from it, but don't judge it too early and give up on it too early because that's just what happens. And then you leave the legacy way behind where it could have been built because you didn't give it the time that it needed.

Absolutely. And it's not up to our audience to prove that this is going to work. It's none of their business. It's up to us. You know, it took me 10 years. Oh, agonizing years. Actually, I think it was even longer than that, if I'm being honest. Yeah, it was, it was about 12 years. I wanted to hit that million dollar marker with every pore of my being and not for the accolades because back then we weren't. Nobody was even doing what people are doing now. And it wasn't to scream it on the Internet because I don't really talk about my income on the Internet because I don't want you hiring me because you think, think because I make this, you're just, just to me is just not the way. So. But for me, it was more of a personal goal and achievement that I wanted to know. I did it. You know, there was that piece of me that's like I built something. And because of this, how many people were changed? Anyway, what I want to bring in the story is it was 12 years of literally dying on the treadmill. There wasn't a better student than me. There wasn't somebody putting in more hours than me. If you told me to do something, I got it done. And I did it with excellence. It was not for lack of effort. It wasn't for lack of growth, personal growth. My journey just took that long. And as soon as I hit was like the lid popped off and there was no stopping it. And I often look back and give so much thanks to Jen in year 11, month four, who just kept going because if I had stopped, I would have missed all of these beautiful years that were bigger and better than I could have even fathomed. And so I wonder how many, well, I know how many women quit before payday, right before that turning point. There's a great Book. Anybody listening who feels like, oh my gosh, Jen, but I've been working so hard and when's this gonna happen? I feel you. I know you. I was 12 years in. Three feet from gold is probably the most precious book. I read it all the time. When I feel like I am not seeing the fruits of my labor, when I'm feeling frustrated with my results, I read that book. And to not give the storyline too much away, it's really a story of a gentleman who was digging and invested to find the biggest gold mine. And he was digging and he was digging and he was digging. And eventually not only his team left and gave up on his vision, but he did. And someone came in and bought all of the machinery and they decided just to keep digging because he had done so much work. And three feet from where he had stopped digging was the biggest gold mine ever found in history. 3.

Oh my God.

And that story, God bumps. That story stood out to me and pierced me so much that I, I believe it held me accountable to going even when I felt like I don't think this is ever going to work. Where I had negotiated my goals and thought just, Jen, just be grateful for your multi six figure business. You know, Jen, just relax. Like where I wanted to talk myself out of my dreams, that book was that nudge that like, like you keep going until. And that's one of my favorite sayings and mantras I give to everybody. You do it until. We don't know when that time is, but when the time comes, you'll be so glad you stuck to it.

So many people are going to really resonate with that and needed to hear that and I even am receiving that on so many levels. So thank you for sharing that. I know that's, I'm going to have to get that book asap.

Such a good book.

Such a good book. Yeah, I'll have to check that out. My goodness. Where do we go from here? So tell us a little bit more about becoming with the magazine Iconic magazine. What's happening for 2026?

Well, we have some covers that are gonna blow your socks off. They certainly blow my socks off. The women that I've been adoring and learning from and inspired by for many, many years. We just actually got back from New York for shooting Jess King, who's the current cover, a peloton instructor that was just, just my absolute lifeline during COVID I mean I, I, her classes gave me life literally during lockdown. So to be in her presence and to honor her and her Effect on my life and many others and put her on the COVID was pretty fascinating and wonderful and just a gorgeous experience. And that's just the tip of the iceberg of what's coming. What I would say with the magazine is our commitment to, is that it's coffee table worthy. Our intention is that you will learn things. So there's beautiful storytelling from very successful, wonderful women telling their story, just like I have today, like you do on the podcast. And also we really infuse that lifestyle component to continue to up level you, whether it's style, food, interiors, because like, we've kind of like rounding up this conversation really. And I think what the through line has been is the details matter, you know, how you do one thing is how you do everything, paying attention to the way you wake up and all the way through until the way you go to bed. Intentionality has been one of my greatest gifts in the, in this lifetime. And my desire is that every issue, not only does it is it visible, but it's felt. And so that's, that's what we're doing is we're really letting it shine. It's definitely gained its reputation, but our promise is to not rest on that. Our dedication is to continue to deepen that.

Amazing. Well, I'll make sure I put all the links in the show notes so people can find the magazine, find you on Instagram, find the podcast, and connect with you further. I'm going to finish with one question. If, if someone was listening to this podcast and really wanted to take their personal brand, their presence online to the next level, their leadership to the next level, whatever feels right for you to share. I'd love for you to share one last thing. What is something that they need to be focused on to take it to that next level? What really feels right for you to share in that place that really would help them ask, what's the word? Escalate.

Escalate.

Yeah.

Yeah. Be seen, be heard, be felt. Stop trying to fit into an industry and lead it.

It.

Stop trying to look a certain way and just be it like, we want you, we crave you. There is someone in the world right now praying for what you have to offer. Answer her prayer. And the only way to answer that prayer is for you to show up each and every day without thinking about what's in it for me. And instead that responsibility of what can I pour out? The world needs goodness right now. I talk a lot right now about being a faucet or a drain. There's a ton of drains out There, they're just sucking the life, the joy, the pleasure, the hope out of this world. Don't be a drain nor pay attention. Plug the drain. Get yourself off of things that are pulling you out of your joy. And now turn on that faucet like a fire hose and go out there and be that person that adds light and hope and your genius into the world. Because we, we want it, we desire it, we, may I say, need it. It's required. You are required. So get out of your own way. Be more of yourself. Be willing to be seen, be heard through the kindness and the depth of your words and let people feel you. I would imagine the very thing they're avoiding is the very thing that will turn on the ignition. So perhaps that's what I leave them with, is turn on the ignition and allow. Just try it. If it doesn't work, no big deal. It doesn't. But if it does, what's possible?

Oh, my goodness. Jen, thank you so much for pouring into us today. Honestly, it's been such a joy chatting with you and I feel like we've felt so many God bumps all the way along and it's been such a joy hearing your journey and hearing you pour into us and so such a beautiful, genuine way. So I really appreciate you sharing everything today.

Thank you, Christine. And the feeling is very mutual. Thank you for hosting such a beautiful conversation.

It's been such a joy.