DAY 4 - Open Doors with the Right Conversations [Reverse the Search LIVE]

Hello, welcome to Reverse the Search Live. I'm Madeline Mann. Go ahead and put a 4 in the chat because it is day 4 here. So good to see you. And we have been going for 4 days straight. Today's session is all about how to open doors with the right conversations. So we're talking about, okay, we know that networking is important, right? It's always talked about. But people say, oh my gosh, networking feels terrible. No one's responding these days. It feels really inauthentic. It just is not worth my time, all those things. And we're going to address all that. And you're going to walk out of here way better at networking and finding those opportunities that others are not finding. So let's see who is here with me today. Oh my gosh. Okay. Welcome, Connor, Dustin. Nap— napturial. Yes, Columbus, Ohio in the house. All right, Cuatro, welcome. Sergio, yes, welcome. Karui, good to see so many familiar names back for day 4. Welcome back, Ryan. And let's talk about what we are doing this week. So you know the drill, at least a lot of you by this point. Day 1, we talked about what's costing you job offers. So really, we were figuring out, okay, a lot of us are not so good at diagnosing what we're doing wrong in the job search. So you learned all the different aspects that you should be measuring and seeing if you measure up and figure out exactly how to fix that. Day 2, we get companies to compete for you. There were 9 strategies of job shoppers, and you learned which ones you were strong, which one you're weak in, and how you're going to improve. Day 3 was how to win in this job market. You learned 4 strategies that are winning in this job market that I had not shared 4 years ago because it was a totally different job market. Day 4, here live, and then Day 5 tomorrow is the culmination. So many of you say, I'm getting interviews, not offers. What is the secret? How can I break through? We're talking about that tomorrow. No more silver medal— silver medals, only gold. Okay, so today's agenda, we're gonna do a couple announcements. Which, first announcement, hello, have you made sure to register for this masterclass? Because a lot of things happen. You get the bonuses, you get, uh, you get the including the workbook. Hello, there's a workbook that goes along with this thing. Make sure you are registered. Okay, we'll put the link in the chat. We'll put the link under the video, all that. So grab your workbook and all of that. Make sure you don't miss anything. And as well as I opened up my coaching program and I did a sweet, sweet discount for you. For anyone who enrolls by May 25th, that's Monday, you get $1,500 off my coaching programs. So go ahead and enroll. And we're doing a really special fast action bonus that's closing on Friday. So what you have to do is to pay in full for any of the plans and you will get a LinkedIn VIP session with me. We hunker down, we go over the different parts of LinkedIn profile. I give real-time feedback to each person in real time. It's really— we get such incredible results of people getting their LinkedIn profile performing so much better after that session. So for sure, grab it. We're including that absolutely free. If you just enroll and pay in full on Friday. Perfect. Perfect. Now, we also have the 4 networking shifts that you are going to make after today. Then we're moving into a case study. And oh my stars, I love this case study so much. You have to watch this case study. It's with Kathy. She went from someone who thought that networking was essentially useless to basically getting access to every top person at every single sports company. It was wild. And she tells us how she tells us how she did it. So stay for that. And then we have Insights: Standout Job Search. I'm going to talk a little bit more about the program for those of you who are still interested in learning the full picture of the coaching program. And then we're going to do the interactive Q&A. Keep throwing me your questions. I'm happy to answer them. All right, I want you to put in the chat, when I say networking, what comes up for you? What are the feelings and thoughts that you associate with networking? Okay, share that, share that with me here. Because, you know, I did this eye rolling emoji because you might know, I don't know that you really study my content that closely. But if you look at my content, I don't really post that much about networking. The reasons is because it doesn't get good views. I'm not going to post things that no one is going to watch, but it's because people are very avoidant about it. They, they don't search for it. And so some of my best strategies are on networking, and I have never spoken about them because no one's listening. So I'm very curious to hear what you have to say. Michael says not enough time. Ooh, Good one, good one. Okay, creating opportunity, says Josh. Ooh, I like that. Fear, says Mrs. Shunab. Not sure what to say, says Naptera. Yes, that's super fair. Creating alignment with those around you, Harold says. Ooh, I feel like there's a lot under that answer. Kristen says, I'm an introvert, so talking to people is scary. There you go. So, I wish I could network without feeling weird. Yeah, yeah, that's super fair. It does, it does feel weird to talk to people you don't know. And yeah, we're listening. Yes, awkward, says Rose. Mm-hmm. Being interested in people, Tereng. Very good. I like that a lot. It takes a while to connect with people, says Ashley. Yes. Too many people not sure who to even talk to, says Sean. Yes. Okay. Constantly told that networking is the best, only way to land. Yeah, that's, that's, I feel like, yeah, you just hear networking, networking, but you never really understand. Okay, but how do I do it? Why is it not working for me?

All that kind of stuff.

Might look transactional. Totally true. Can feel stuffy to people. Oh my gosh. Yes, David says talking to strangers can definitely feel awkward. Okay, these things are exactly what we're talking about today. So this makes me really happy that I feel like you all have been telling me this for a while. So I feel like I have a pretty solid pulse on the way you've been feeling. Though it was heartening to, to see a couple of positive ones as well that you guys are feeling. So close your other tabs. Mute your phone, lock in. Truly, multitasking is a waste of time. Okay, we're not going to get our, you know, our value out of this hour if we are multitasking. So mind clear, all ears, offers near. It's been 4 days. I'm sure you know it by now. Mind clear, all ears, offers near. Let's go. All right. I saw, I saw someone say this, like, not enough time, which I associate with this idea of networking feels slow. And no one used this word. It's kind of a strong word, but it can also feel desperate. So put a plus one in the chat if you have felt this way about networking. I hear this all the time. The response I get from folks is, Madeline, I cannot network. Because I need to land a job quickly. I don't have time to network. Huh, isn't that interesting? But yet networking is the fastest way to land a job, especially as you're getting to more senior level positions as well. So why is that? Why is networking the fastest way to land a job? Because a lot of times networking is Basically, you're kind of skipping to the part where you're talking to humans. An interview is talking to a person like that is always how you're going to get the job. Almost always these days things are getting a little funky, but in today's world and for these types of corporate jobs that I'm helping you with, you're going to talk to someone. So immediately when you are talking to humans who then either like or know other humans, this is actually the fastest way to find opportunities. And kind of make sure that you're actually being noticed and seen. You just have to go about it the right way. I consider it like farming, right, where you're, you're planting seeds. And so the first day you start networking, don't expect your plants to sprout up high. But once it gets momentum, oh my gosh, you are going to have a full farm.

Let's see.

I also want to see if anyone's saying plus one. Yes. Okay. So, all right. I'm seeing lots of plus ones. Oh, okay. So I'm scrolling up to All right. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Okay. So there was a lot of plus ones earlier. Okay. Got it. And so your networking is helpful to others. And now if you're multitasking, I want you to lock in right now because this is something that I've told quite a lot of people and they go, wait, I had no idea. So when you network with people who work at companies, you are doing them a favor. Okay. So first of all, like, let's say someone really, you know, came to me and said, hey, I can do this type of work for you. Actually, I'll give an example. Courtney's in the chat right now. This is exactly what she did. This is why she has her job today. She met me at an event and she said, Madeline, I want to work with you. Kind of like, here's, here's some of my skills. Please, if there's an opportunity, I would like to work for you. I didn't give her a job right away because I didn't have a job for her. But you know what I did is when I did have an opportunity, I opened, I created the role. I didn't have to write a job description. I interviewed only her. And I was like, okay, if she's the right person, then I'll hire her. If she's not, then I'll do the whole folder, all the job description, the this, the that, the multiple rounds. So she was the right person. I brought her on. And that just saved me dozens of hours. Right. And so that's actually what's happening when you're networking is if you can be that right person at the right time, it's super helpful as well as people want to network. You are an interesting professional, even if you're not currently employed. You— they know you're going to be employed. They know you're going to end up somewhere and they are excited that you reached out to them because they want— like most people want to network, but they would rather have the networking fall on their lap than them having to do it. So you are doing a big service there. And then become first in line. This is another thing that a lot of people don't think about. We had a coaching call, we call them our strategic advisories, and we had a coaching call a few weeks ago in my program. And one of the clients said, I got an introduction to someone who works at LinkedIn and he would be essentially my manager if I If I worked at LinkedIn, he's in my function, all that. And we talked, but there's no open role. But, you know, I'm glad I met him. And I said, this is perfect. I said, stay in touch and you are now first in line for him to hire when a role opens up. And she said, I didn't think about it that way. And that's the whole, that's the whole idea of you are now becoming first in line. So make sure you're setting yourself up for these things because again, she's planted the seed, she's going to stay in touch. And then as soon as that role is open, maybe he never posts this job on job boards. Maybe he just goes straight to her and maybe a couple of other people. And guess what? This is one of the reasons why so many of my clients like land so many offers is because they're not actually competing against you and you and you and you. They're competing against fewer people because they're doing some of this really good networking work. So, uh, I like to kind of pull this message that one of my clients posted. Who said that she was rejected by a company and she took Madeleine's advice and stayed in touch. And the recruiter called her for another interview at the company. And so, so many people just— again, she was first in line for the next opportunity. People don't think that way. You don't think about how that is important relationship building. All right. Networking feels inauthentic. Oh my gosh. Put me in the chat. If you've ever felt this way. Networking feels inauthentic. This is maybe the number one complaint I get about networking is like, oh my God, how is it even natural to reach out to people I do not know? Like, this feels so weird. Um, and so, uh, yeah. Okay, let's see. Still no slides. Is this true? Can you guys really not see my slides? I'm seeing messages that say no slides. Let's see. Oh, it's just an orange background. Oh no. Hey guys, hold on. Let me— I'm sorry, guys. That's so annoying. I'm so sorry. Wow. Here, let me get you back to the slides, guys. Let's see. I was just in my own world here. So Let me pop over. Can you guys see the slides now? Let me know. Let me know if you can see the slides now. Here, let me look at the chat. Have not seen any slides today. Oh my gosh, no, no slides. Are you serious? No slides. Still no slides. Hmm. Still no? Oh my stars, because on my side it looks good. Oh my stars, you guys, what is going on? It's a nice orange background. You guys, this is, this is, uh, is your, is your camera covered? Can you guys not see me either? You guys can't see me as a human? Oh dear. You guys can't see me? Oh my goodness. Okay, this is, this is really, uh, quite the conundrum. Okay, so, um, add a scene, media. Oh my stars. Okay, so here, let's see. Oh my goodness. All right, is— can we— we can see you. Oh, we can see you. Okay, so you can see me, um, but still, still no slides because I have the slides up now, but maybe it's not working. Is this— can you guys see it? They were at the start but they disappeared. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. OK, so this is— it is black. It is black. What is going on? OK, so sorry about this, guys. So here's what we're going to do. So what we'll do is I can see you on the laptop now. Black screen. Hmm. All right. So I'm going to re-upload the slides. What we're going to do is we're going to head into our our case study while I troubleshoot this, because frankly, our case study is super relevant to everything we're talking about here. So we'll— I'm going to re-upload my slides. We're going to go into the case study and then right after that, we'll come back and then hopefully the slides will be working. I am so sorry, you guys. I do not know what is happening, but we'll go into the case study and I promise we'll come back. So here we go. Kathy, thank you so much for joining me.

Thanks for having me, Madeline. I'm honored really to be here. Thank you.

So I am really excited to talk to you because you had such a journey. You really wanted to pivot into sports and you truly took the job shopping method to heart and really thought a lot about the networking side of it. So I'm excited to get into all the different things you did there. But before we get into all of those juicy details, take me back to where was your job search before you joined the program, before we met?

Yeah, so it's kind of funny. I got laid off after 5 and a half years and I hadn't been in the job market, I mean, maybe 8 years, Madeline. And so really had no idea, but the funniest part I think about all of this was I actually got a job, a transition company in my layoff package included for free. And I used it a couple of times and it just wasn't clicking when I was— and right off the bat, I got a couple of really great interviews and I'm embarrassed to say it after everything I've been through, but like my tell me about yourself was like 12 minutes. I'm embarrassed, embarrassed. But so obviously it wasn't clicking and I just wasn't, I just wasn't connecting with them. And so I wound up always going to your videos and checking you out. And finally I was like, I really like Madeleine way better than this other service. So I wound up, you know, getting your service, even though I had a free service, which I thought was kudos to you. Like what a compliment because I already had something. So, so it was, um, the first 2 months were terrible. Like I had, was getting interviews, but I just obviously didn't know how to interview anymore. And I knew that I didn't know how to interview. And the second thing was, I had 3 job titles that I was going for because my career has been not only in sports and hospitality, but also been a project manager, also been a chief of staff. And I like all of those roles. So they told me to pursue all of those. So I had multiple resumes. I had, I was all over the place. And so when I came to you, you were very honest and said, when you do that, you look scattered. You don't look serious. You need to dial it in. And so I took a minute and I said, I really want to do sport. I really want something cool and fun. And I want to pivot into sports because at my heart and in my early career, I started sports companies. I love sport. I believe in sport. And so I thought professional sports would sort of be that pinnacle in this sort of— but not this last stage Kathy, thank you so much.

Thank you so much for joining me.

Thanks to come and talk to you because a while ago, maybe a lot of people watching who feel networking focus, because getting focused is really tip from you to real— what do you want to do to really be focused? Because then I can turn all my attention on, because my LinkedIn looks a mess because it says all this different stuff, and my resumes are— and so no, I mean, once you cast, it kind of weighs on you with all these different things and all these different choices. I think no, I would say it's much easier when you're actually finally focused on what is really going to make you happy in that next stage of your life. So it's not— doesn't make the job search easier, but it makes it, okay, now I'm focused and now I'm dialed in. I know what I'm doing.

Yes, I love to hear that. Okay, that makes me happy because, yeah, you follow the processes. We have very specific steps of, okay, here's how you get focused, because getting focused is really tough. Like, the people watching know that if you, if you don't know exactly what you want next, that can be sometimes the hardest part of the job search. And so we have the very specific steps. And I love that you really took those to heart and you said, all right, I'm going to dial in. And then you especially like, especially on your LinkedIn profile, I think that's a really great tip that you gave is that is that needs to feel really cohesive in order to get that attention, to make the right impression with your people you're networking with, to get sourced, all of those things. So that is, that is a huge tip. I love that.

Yeah.

So I would say You come on our calls, right? Our coaching calls. And we have, you know, a group of us on there. And so often I'm like singing your praises because I'm like, everyone be like Kathy, okay? She really has taken this idea of networking seriously. And I want to dive into that a lot here because, you know, we have a lot of people watching who feel networking feels kind of gross, right? It feels forced, or it feels, you know, you're, you're at a high level in your career, you know, should I really have to be doing this at my level or whatever it is, right? There's all these emotions and feelings and fears around it. No one's responding these days. You know, everyone is overwhelmed and no one wants to help. I want to get your your perspective on this in your job search and how you were able to take the job shopping method and really just absolutely blow it out of the water.

Yeah. So I was thinking back on the same question when you first asked me to come and talk to you, because a while ago, maybe 5 years ago, I actually took a different program on networking. And so I had tried it, but I was networking with people that I knew, but they're in completely— they're in like medical devices or this had nothing to do with what I wanted to do. So the networking was very awkward because I didn't even really, I wasn't really interested in what they were doing. It just wasn't serving the purpose. So fast forward to now, of course, when you read, you know, you have to network and all this stuff and yeah, it's, Madeline, it feels like somebody's like ripping your heart out. You know, it's like, oh my God, I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna talk to anyone. You know, no one's gonna, all those things that you said. So, but anyways, I talked to a couple of people who did the program and they said, do what Madeline says, do it. So I said, okay. So with sports, I just went on LinkedIn and looked at a couple and just started sending messages. And yes, plenty of people did not respond. Madeline, you also said join organizations. I joined Women in Sports and Entertainment, like, you know, a great resource. So I started just poking around, but all of a sudden people started responding and would say, yeah, I'll be happy to meet, I'll be happy to talk. And so then the panic really sets in because then you're like, oh my God, I really don't want to look like an idiot and I want to make sure. And I remember my first big one was a great man who has planned the last like 30 Super Bowls now. Like this guy's like the GOAT of sports and entertainment. And he got right back to me. And so I had a whole agenda and the push comes to shove, Madelyn, once you just say hi and tell about yourself. They just want to talk about themselves and it's 20 minutes later and I didn't even really ask a question. And so then, so then you're like, you're really enjoying it. And then, so the end is that tricky part because you don't want to ask them for anything. So you give great tips on just how to keep in touch. So I've really perfected that. But on that, I've gotten incredible people that they've sent me to and stuff like that, just for reaching out or sending an email. But The best tip that you ever gave me was— so I've been doing that and I've had great success, but the best part about it is when we talked about it, because you said you keep the conversation, it can't just be one and done, keep the conversation going. And so at first it was really hard because I didn't know what to say, even though you gave me some great tips. But when I got some interviews, not jobs, just some interviews, like that was it. So I'm sending them notes saying, hey, "how you doing?" You know, you would say things like, "Sorry, I haven't been in touch," whatever. And I just had a great interview with the Tennessee Times, like, and just a general update of where you are in the process. That's it, nothing more. Have a great day, hope the winter's going well. Well, they're still responding to me, Madeline. They're like, "That's so great." And even maybe if I already knew I wasn't going forward in the process, but I would still at least let them know that I, for me, because I was like, I was honored that I had been interviewed at the Tennessee Titans, or I got an interview at Las Vegas F1. And so with that, I've just been able to keep these conversations going, and these follow-up emails have almost 100% return. I talked to last week the woman who is the head of events at NASCAR.

Wow. Yeah. Like, Incredible. I mean, and she couldn't have been.

And again, I had my, I had my agenda. I was all right. I didn't even look at it, Alan. It was, hi, tell me about yourself. And half hour later, and it's 2 email follow-ups and let me know. And she's got a big event coming up. And so we can't wait to talk about it. So I think it's just getting over that hurdle. I think it's realizing that if people don't respond, like, that's okay. I still follow up like 4 or 5 times. And like on the 4th time, they respond. Like, eventually, I'd say 85% of people respond. But with that, I have some great recruiter connections that even after maybe I didn't go farther in the interview, um, they're responding to me now. Justin, hey, I'm at FIFA, things are going well, you know, let's keep it, all that kind of stuff. So it really changes your whole mindset about reaching out to people. Like, and now, like, every time I don't make it an interview. That's okay. I got all these people are now on my list. They all go into it. And now I follow up with all of them. Even if I got ghosted in a third, fourth round.

And I still, I still say, hey, that Kathy, it's just so I, you know, being on these calls and then other clients are like, Kathy, what are you sending them? You're like, you're just this template. Madeline wrote it.

Madeline told you exactly what to write. And I just change it a little bit every single time. And when I'm I'm on a roll, I cut and paste and I change it just a little bit. I'm like a machine. And people have said this to me about sports, like a lot of it is right place, right time. And so I am of course hoping that somebody remembers me or a conversation or thinks of a job. I have no idea, but it, you know what I know, Malin, it can't hurt. There's no, I have nothing to lose than by reaching out and making these. I had another call last week with the guy who built, worked for Mercedes F1 team and then built the European F1 partnership at Amazon. An hour, like I had to go because I was like, André, I have to go. Like, I don't even want to end this because, but an hour we were just, and he's like, let me, what do you, what do you want to do? And, and a lot of the times they try to flip it back to you, Madeline, to say, what do you want to do? What, you know what I mean? And so it's, it's fun. It has turned from panic to fun. And who else can I get to talk to me?

I love this so much. And this is truly what I see when people take my networking advice seriously and use the tools that I provide. It's scary, right? You said you followed up with people 4+ times. Okay, I teach that, like, and I give the follow— exact follow-up emails. But you did it. And then, you know what they say, the first time you follow up, Thank you. Thank you for following. I would love to say sorry.

Sorry, I have—

let's talk. And because it's clearly, they're like, they're like, Kathy cares. Yeah, Kathy cares enough to talk to me. This is not— I'm— she didn't just blast this email out to 50 people. Kathy cares about me. And so I love this. And it's been really cool to see the caliber of people you've talked to, um, how eager they are to, to talk with you. And it really is from going through these job shopping strategies, using them, and just genuinely being someone who is open and curious and also targeted. Like, I think what you said at the beginning, yeah, absolutely is true, is you're not just, you know, you really are. You're there because you are genuinely, you know, about the industry. You've, you've taken time to learn about, you know, whatever they're doing. And it's fun for them to talk to someone who's similarly passionate. To they are.

So it's fun. And yeah, it's, and it's also, it's a learning thing, right? Especially in sport, all these teams, they call the jobs a different thing. And so it's also a little bit of a learning. You still use it for learning because when I asked the question, I got the entire understanding of the events department at NASCAR.

And I know you mentioned earlier in, in this call that you said that when you— before you got coaching, that the interviews were tough for you. What kind of transformation did you see there?

No idea. And I never got any coaching. I never learned. This other service didn't tell me anything. And so they were really just, here are some tips on your resume. But I wasn't getting any structure. But I knew it just didn't feel right, which is why I kept going, because I definitely am a learner. So if I know, like, why am I not getting you know, what's wrong with my opening or whatever. And I would come up with your video, Tell Me About Yourself, and I'm like, oh my gosh. And so I kept doing it and doing it. And, but to me, to be able to have access to you, to have access to all this stuff, it just, you can do a lot with the video, but you can't do enough to really, like, I can record myself and I can show you my, and I can just have that, that I can't put enough value on having access to you and your expertise and what everybody else is doing, that really put me over at the top.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

And then your results were— you landed a role at FIFA, right?

Yes.

Amazing. Like pinnacle of just incredible results. So, yeah. Tell me a little bit about that, about how you were able to land something that was such a big name.

Yeah, so I landed a role with On Location. They are the premier hospitality company. So they do the Olympics, they do NCAA Final Four, they do the World— they do everything. But what was really unique about it was after I did the tell me about yourself and the quick with the recruiter, she said, you know, I think you— I know you put in for this role, but I really think you'd be perfect for this role. And that has never happened to me. And I was like, Okay.

And that's job shopper stuff right there.

I know. Yes, you hear it. It's like the unicorn.

And people—

but it actually happened to me. And I said, okay, so she, she— whatever it was, she wanted me to move forward and they needed this role in Miami. So what, what you did for me with the prep, with the, um, interview, um, you know, create a, create a job interview where you'll ask me what phase are you in, who are you interviewing with, you know, you give it as much information as you you can. And it really starts to script out. It's not perfect because of course you never know what they're gonna ask you, but it prepares you, right? I've got my story toolbox. I've got, I've got every scenario possible. And what you've taught me is to be able to pivot but know those stories like this. So I can turn any of my 6 stories, you know, my Mark Zuckerberg story, I can make it into when something went wrong, You know, tell me about a time you collaborate, whatever that it is, like, because I have that story and you've made me memorize it and just be so— but I have to say, Madeleine, the best trick that you ever gave me was it's not an exam on memorization, so have some notes with you. So it was— so the prep, the confidence. I don't always make it. But I always feel really good about what I'm— how I'm presenting myself in the interviews.

Amazing.

Yeah.

Well, thank you so much for sharing your experience. There's so many great key takeaways here, and hopefully everyone is now energized to go network and also go, you know, really refine their approach to the interview. So I'm going to send you away, Kathy, with a Wi-Fi high five.

Woo!

Thank you, Madeline.

I owe you everything. I can't say enough. It changed. It changed. I'm your biggest fan. I always tell everybody, like, you have a question, ask me, call Madeline. You know, I— yeah, I love it. I love, love the program. So thank you.

Oh my gosh, you rock. Thank you so much, Kathy. See you. Bye. Woo! Perfect. All right, guys, let's see if this all works. What a thing. Now, Kathy, how phenomenal was that, right? Really is someone who, who the proof is in the pudding. She went out there, she reached out to folks, and like Kathy is not someone who is this super unique person. I mean, she's phenomenal, she's amazing, but she's like you, right? It's not like what she was saying was something like really special or, you know, she had a specific pedigree that made her irresistible. She actually wasn't from the sports industry. This is her first— these are her first interviews and her first offers from the professional sports industry. So it's just really cool to see how she fully embraced her curiosity and her interest in other people to really build those relationships. And so let's see if I can get this going as far as another presentation. I re-uploaded my presentation, so we will see if it works for you. Um, go ahead and put a yes or a no in the chat if you can see this. But yes, it's so good to hear Kathy's story is amazing. I agree, I agree. Great case study. Yes. Oh my gosh, yes, that was neat. FIFA was really good, says Josh. I, I agree. It's been such a blast to have Kathy. It just— because I think when you're doing networking, it can feel like, you know, you're planting your seeds and there's nothing's grown yet. And so it can feel really demoralizing of when is it going to happen? Still no slides. All right, guys, this is ridiculous. Oh my gosh, this is so silly. Okay, so let's see. Um, let's see. How about this, guys? Can you see this? Now we have a different thing here. I'm sharing my screen. Yes. Kathy's story is an amazing case study. All right. So now I— that worked. Someone says that worked. Someone said that worked. Yes. Oh my gosh. Thank the Lord.

Okay.

Oh, you guys, what an adventure it's been. You guys are the best. Thanks for coming along with me. All right, let's rock with this, guys. We got a black background now. It's not my favorite, but we're gonna rock with it. Let's do this. All right, so, all right, so networking feels inauthentic. This is the one I hear the absolute most, so let's dive into it. Uh, perfect, perfect. That's what y'all are seeing. So Networking feels authentic. Okay, inauthentic. So let's take a page out of Kathy's book and do some of the things that she was doing. Okay, Kathy would definitely back me up on this. Is the first thing is you don't have to know people, you have to notice people. All right. So what that means is people like to feel like you notice something about them, that you are curious about them. People love to be seen. Okay, Lord knows I love to be seen. Okay. Hello. But even people on a micro scale like to be seen as well. And so noticing things about them can make them feel really good and much more likely to want to talk to you and help you. So just take time to notice things about people that is unique or special about them. Hey, like I was on LinkedIn, I noticed that like we both you know, speak Russian or whatever, right? Like just noticing people. The second thing is to focus on them. So Kathy made this wonderful point in her case study, which I'm so glad you guys are so jazzed about it because I was really excited to share hers with you. I almost didn't want to save it until day 4. I wanted to show it earlier. But you notice Kathy was like, I barely say anything on these networking calls. And that is why she is so successful. She is not trying to sell herself. And so many of you guys are trying to sell yourselves on these calls. And so you want to focus on them and they love it. They love to talk about themselves and they feel really, really good about it. And then you also want to focus on value. So, you know, it— and when I say this, it kind of clams people up. Okay. They're like, oh my gosh, how am I supposed to add value? Like I could see Kathy thinking, I'm talking to these top people at NASCAR and, you know, all these different places. What value can I give to them? Well, it's not about necessarily giving them some grand gesture, but actually doing a strategy I called 60 seconds of value, which are small pieces of value that make a huge difference, super thoughtful. And on my platform, my coaching platform, help me see if I can show you guys. We'll see if I, completely mess up the technology. Actually, yeah, let me replace it with a different window. So here's, here's my 60 Seconds of Value tool. So basically, you put in information about someone, I kind of put in some, some dummy information here, Trevor, he's hiring for his sales team and training junior sales talent. What's going on with him personally, he's you know, keeping his kids busy because school's out and it's been rainy days or whatever. Okay. So, you know, the thing about adding 60 seconds of value is it can be for personal or professional, but you have to be able to ask them these questions in order to get this information. And then it comes up with a full list of great ideas and they're not that hard, such as send over a list of potential interview questions for candidates that have worked well in the past. It's like, oh yeah, we hired a few sales professionals recently, like, I'll send you over the questions that worked really well for us. That takes you all of 60 seconds, but means so much to Trevor. So just finding things like that, that can make a huge, huge difference. And so that tool is just, again, that's part of our, like, our suite of tools that Kathy was using religiously in the program to message people of, you know, and she talks a lot about direct messaging people, but we also have a lot of features that have to do with also— there's 8 other strategies that are not, you know, having to reach out cold. So we have a lot of strategies. It like generates your messages for you, but it tailors them. Like, you notice how it wasn't just like, oh, here's like ideas in general for how to help people. No, it's like, how can we help Trevor specifically? That's, that's my entire platform is all about how do we make people feel special? How do we make companies feel seen? How do we make people feel special? That is what it's all about. I love to hear it. I saw this comment in my networking chat for my coaching program. She says, I was doing some LinkedIn networking. She met a professor who we took a liking to each other's profiles as fellow therapists. He was especially interested in my background. He was interested in collaborating. This is what I'm talking about. He noticed— it's all about noticing each other. It's not about knowing people. It's about saying, hey, here's what I noticed about you. This is what I find interesting about you. And people go, oh my gosh, here's what I find interesting about you. And they get excited. That's, that's exactly what we're talking about here. And I love to see them putting this into practice. Um, I now have a coffee meeting with a new connection. Uh, connected with a new healthcare recruiter. It's so exciting to get responses to my outreach messages. It's motivating me more. It's all about building this momentum. That's so important. Okay, put me in the chat if you've ever felt this way. No one responds anymore. Everyone is overwhelmed. No one helps. Okay, I have heard this now more than ever in this job market. It's like, no, no, everyone's overwhelmed. You know, no one responds, no one's helping. What is the purpose of doing all this if, if, you know, it's just all noise and no help? Let's see, has anyone felt that way of, you know, this? Okay, I'm seeing Matthew says me. Yeah, totally. Lady Sarah says yes, definitely. Um, yeah, true, says Heidi. Yeah, Karui says no one, no one, no one's helping. Um, Mikey says yep, yep, true, Jennifer. You guys are so funny. Everyone has their own unique way. True, true. Okay, right on. Yes, and, and so this is like a really common thing that especially this job market is what I've been hearing the most. Um, and so, oops, here Guys, okay, here we go. I forgot which page we were on and I was about to be like, are we going through this terribleness again? So no one responds, everyone's overwhelmed. So I do want to challenge this because in my perspective, coaching hundreds of people in a given year, there's responses all over the place and people are so, so generous. You know, this person says they, they connected with 3 people. Immediate response for one. We exchanged several messages. She would highlight my resume with them to ensure they schedule me. Fantastic, right? Reached out to 3 people. One responded, and now we're moving. Contacted the hiring manager. She wrote back in a couple of hours saying she appreciated and respected my proactivity. That is right. They respect it. And they appreciate it. And this is what I see every day happening. I had a great coffee networking meeting. She told me that she loves to find jobs for people. Okay. There's people like this everywhere who want to help. And I think a lot of them are here right now. Like, if you think about it, if someone asked you for a little bit of career advice, or if you could introduce them to someone else, you'd probably be like, yes, I would love to contribute to your life and your success and make a meaningful impact. People are largely generous, and if they're not, they are an adult. And what can adults do? They can say no if they don't want to do something. So you might as well ask. So people are responding, but why aren't they responding to you? And maybe they are responding to you, but let's pretend like maybe you are one of those people who's struggling with networking and you're not getting responses. So I hear this from my clients all the time. They'll be like, Madeline, I don't know about this networking thing. And the first thing I'll ask them is, well, how many people have you reached out to? And they'll usually say, well, Madeline, now that's a good question because I've reached out to 2, but neither of them responded. It's like, okay, maybe, maybe that's too few, right? Maybe we should aim for more around a 20% response rate from folks. So let's reach out to more people. Let's not expect that every single one's going to hit. Kathy even said people don't just respond the first time. I follow up, I do all these things. Like, it's usually, you know, not just like an instant thing. I should have counted how many times Kathy said follow up in her thing. She said it so many times. But yes or no in the chat if you follow up for networking conversations when someone doesn't respond. She had such a high success rate. I mean, I remember it was January and it was like the second week of January and we were on a coaching call and Ed Cathy was like, I sent all of these emails like January 5th, no one responded. And I followed up like the following week, the second week of January and everyone has responded to me. I got 5 out of 5 response rate and everyone on the call was cheering for her and all that. But it's, It's, it's like, and then they have wonderful chats. Your message is about you. Okay, so, so many people with their networking outreaches make the message about them. And actually, I want to see, I want to see what people are saying in the chat because I don't want to miss it. Okay, yes or no? Okay, so yes, I do follow up. Jeffrey rarely follows up. No. Naptorial says no. She said 4 times, Rose says. Yeah. Josh, yes, he does follow up. I used to never follow up, but I do as of like a few months ago, says Eric. Okay, that's good to hear. That's really good to hear. So your message is about you. I can't tell you how many networking messages I've edited that are so long. Oh my gosh, they go on for ages. So it's, it's too much, too long of messages. And don't make it so much about yourself. And your, your message could go to other people. So make sure you're customizing it so that that exact same message couldn't just go to the 5 other people you're reaching out to, that you are, you are thinking about the person and making it so that they can recognize that, okay, this isn't some mass email I just got. And you're also non-specific, so you may be not specific enough about what your ask is or what you do or why you're curious. Kathy kind of hinted towards that where she said she was doing informational interviews with like random people and she was like, I don't, I don't know what's going on. Like before she joined the program and they can pick up on that and it leads to really low response rates. Okay, so this one's kind of interesting. I've heard this one a little less, but I have heard it quite a bit lately, especially with a lot of my work with higher level, you know, VP, C-level people. It's like, oh my gosh, I should have to reach out to random people at my level. I built a career. Why do I feel like I'm starting over? This is exhausting. Because a lot of us maybe have landed a lot of roles just naturally, right? One role rolls into the next. And yet now you're in a job market where you're like, okay, why aren't we rolling into the next? What's happening? A few things here. Definitely, especially for folks who are more senior in your career, make sure you're getting sourced on LinkedIn. Okay, that's a huge thing. That is like one of my— that my clients really lean on. Two, a lot of these senior level roles are not posted online. Okay, or it's kind of filled in the kind of the backchannel ways I was describing earlier. So really, like networking is really important, right? And yeah, it's, it's, it's so many people actually want to meet you and want to talk with you. Just approaching it the right way. It makes all of the difference. And so here this message says, I had a great third networking coffee with a well-connected healthcare executive today. And so there's kind of this misconception that executives are like not responsive and you can't get access to them. But that's absolutely not the case. Executives are also accessible, so you can reach out to them as well. So how are you going to frame networking in your mind going forward? So you use certain words at the beginning. What are your thoughts on it? Maybe your words are going to stay the same. Maybe they're going to change. What do you think? How are you going to frame networking in your mind going forward? Go ahead and put that in the chat. Now, we already did our case study. Thank goodness for Kathy. So that was a blast. So I am going to share a bit about my coaching program, Stand Out Job Search, and we'll talk a little bit about, okay, what is it? Right. So when you're— because we've been getting a lot of questions about what comes inside of it. Does it cover all the job search? Only part of it? So truly it is adapted to you. So we have, we have people who come in who are like, I'm getting, I'm not getting interviews. And then we have other people come in and saying, I'm getting lots of interviews with no offers. And it doesn't matter kind of where you're starting. It'll, it is, it is to adapt to you. So first you get a custom plan. So you have to stop wasting time. Things move a lot faster. Then you get your exact targeting. So I think every single case study— we've done 4 case studies so far this week— have brought up the exact targeting, which has actually been really interesting because a lot of them are more senior professionals who know themselves very well. But they said like that, that really helped them reduce rejections and increase confidence of knowing exactly what they're targeting and, and really make sure that they were using their time wisely. You have, you have help getting noticed. So get custom feedback on your resumes. Your LinkedIn profile to get more interviews. You're also going to unlock hidden opportunity. That's really kind of the topic of today. Mainly what Kathy was talking about is being able to meet seemingly unreachable people and be first in line for these roles and get opportunities that you're like, whoa, I thought this was kind of untouchable. You're going to master interviewing. Okay. This is truly what I pride myself on, is listening to people's interviews and giving them feedback. We have advanced mock interview tools that will give you on-the-spot feedback, but then you can also get feedback from me and other coaches as well to fully round it out so that you are absolutely unstoppable. Just like Kathy said she is, just like Navneet said he is, just like Tuong said she was, just like Paul said he was. And then negotiate the best offer. So really make sure that you have us in your back pocket to make sure that your offer is the best it can be. So that you can sleep at night knowing that you didn't leave any money on the table. So there's 3 tiers. This is the first time we've ever opened up the core because our, our tools are so advanced that we're like so excited that if you want to kind of focus more on the core, the core is, is the more of like having all the tools to yourself and being a bit more self-guided. You still get the job search plan and all of that. And it's more self-guided and you get all that. Now, the guided part is really where all of the testimonials and all the case studies. This is my flagship. This is my, this is my everything. This is what they did. So they got the unlimited asynchronous one-on-one coaching. You know, Kathy and I were going back and forth on her interview answers and she was showing up to the group calls and sharing things about like, okay, here, here's how I'm refining my networking. And then we go back to the one-on-one and I'd be like, okay, no, say this next time about the Mark Zuckerberg thing, blah, blah, blah, right? We would, we built a close relationship with this. You get feedback on every single document you create. You also get the weekly VIP coaching calls, the group coaching calls. There just isn't like this, like if you really want like that private, like kind of done with you calls, like on a Zoom or something, I would say go White Glove. And that's especially good for executives who really want that, their handheld. They want kind of everything kind of done with them, done for them. And that's really great. A lot of like quality time there if that's more of your speed. So just you have the all your pricing here. You, we are $1,500 off right now. There's also payment plans. So you can split up your payments across 6 months to make it easier to pay over time. And we— it's open until May 25th. Okay, that's Monday. Okay. All the prices are going back to normal after May 25th. So I really do recommend if you are looking to land your next role and you know that you could use a lifelong skill like this and you don't want to waste any more time, you don't want to miss any other opportunities, you don't want them to slip through the cracks. And that opportunity that you were dreaming of, that they kind of led you on to think you were going to get, now is gone. Please, please, that is like the most painful thing is that people will come to me and join the program after that happens. It's like, okay, let's, let's talk about this before, before you get your dream interview and it ends up not working out. So we also have a zero risk promise. Just give it a try, hit the milestones, do the work. And we promise you'll get value. If you don't, we'll give your money back in 90 days. Okay, you get the Show Don't Tell idea generator. We're adding this tool completely free to help you stand out in these interviews and even between interviews and getting interviews with this idea generator, as well as you're going to get the LinkedIn VIP workshop if you pay in full for any of the plans by Friday, evening. Okay, so that's a fast action bonus. You gotta get it done. Gotta make it happen. But I would recommend doing it because you get to be in a session with me. And we will go over your LinkedIn profile, get— you'll get feedback on it. And we've gotten incredible feedback on this. Like a lot of our, our, our top clients have been like, yeah, that session rocked. My LinkedIn profile dramatically improved. I was getting more interviews. It was so productive. So You just get that for free if you pay in full by Friday. That was my suggestion. So, so we'll go ahead and put the link in the chat to enroll and also email it to you. Just make sure you're enrolled in this or you're registered in this masterclass so that you can make sure that you're getting all this information emailed to you so you can peruse it over. All right. Let's roll into the Q&A. Thank goodness we can see my slides and we made it through to the Q&A because now it's all about just me and you. Now we're just going to hang out. So let's talk about it. Let's see. Okay, Josh is asking, how long does access to the program last? We actually— that's interesting you asked this. I was— I quietly just extended it to 12 months. We've never done that before, but we just said, you know what, as long as it takes you to kind of land your offer up until 12 months, go for it. So you're not going to need 12 months, but you have— you will have access, which is like insane. Like, my business coach was like, no, no, no, you're underpricing everything if that's how much access. But it's really about— I'm only caring about the result, right? And the idea is that we're trying to help you land a role as soon as humanly possible. So it's not really— it's like people, you know, you want to get the result as fast as possible, but for some people, they have to take a break because there's a health issue or they go on vacation or something like that. And so we wanted to allow for room for that. So So, are the website tools open outside of the program, says Josh. Um, I don't know what you mean by open. Uh, they like— there are like specific modules that you— that like at certain times of year I do, um, open those up for sale. But yeah, so, so yeah, so you could, you could like buy individual modules, um, at certain times of year. All right. Can you walk me through what the first 2 weeks of guided SJS would look like? Sure. So what that would look like is you, you join, boom, you get an email from our team because you, if you do the guided tier, you get a concierge. So they're going to email you and say, hey, Brennan, Let's hop on a call. Like, let me like make sure you understand all of our tools and let me like in real time answer all of your questions about the program. So within your first few days, ideally within your first 24 to 48 hours, you hop on a call with your concierge. Okay? You go over everything. Then a few days later, we're going to have a group call. So I'm going to welcome the new folks in. I'm going to be on that call. We're going to, like, hunker down, answer lots of questions, get into the nitty-gritty too. I'm not just going to be like, hi, this is orientation. No, I'm like, all right, let's get down to business. You're going to have access to everything. You're going to hop on the platform. You're going to see your job search plan and be like, all right, like, if I'm ready to go, let's start going. Let's start making this happen. You are going to also get introduced to your mentor. So your, your first networking conversation is going to be done for you. We're just going to hand it to you on a silver platter just to get your momentum going. And this is someone who's been in the program before. So they're going to be like, hey, Brennan, here's what you should do, here's what you shouldn't do and all that kind of stuff. And then we're off to the races. You're going to have full access to the unlimited one-on-one asynchronous coaching. You can immediately start asking questions and all that. And then from there, it's really dependent on what you need as a job seeker. All right. So let's see. How do you network with large organizations with over 10,000 employees? So I wouldn't think that it would be any different than networking. I mean, sure, maybe there's, there's some, there's some elements of maybe some differences, but I think what's great is that with that many employees, you know, there's so many more people you can find something in common with. Like in that case, you know, I've volunteered for Make-A-Wish Foundation. If it's a company that has 10,000 employees, I bet you I can just type in Make-A-Wish Foundation into the search bar and that company and find someone else who's volunteered there. And boom, instantly, that's my intro with them. Oh my gosh, we both volunteer for Make-A-Wish, blah, blah, blah. How are you liking working there?

Boom. In.

So I think it's actually, it's a lot easier in my, my thought.

Okay.

So what's the success rate of the core program? How long does it take to land an offer under this plan? So this is the first time we're opening up just the core. So the, the amazing thing is that this plan has access to Madeline AI. Okay, so that is the, the AI coach that has over a million words from my own intellectual property. So you will have all of these tools. Everything has been really built out deeply. And so if you are, you know, if you're really looking for like that deep, deep, deep coaching, probably go for the guided tier. But if you are someone who's self-guided, who is self-motivated, it could be really good for you. So let's see, how do you turn networking conversations into real opportunities instead of just small talk? So actually, if you're able to do a lot of small talk, that's pretty great because I feel like small talk is actually a really good foundation of rapport, of just being able to be friendly. So I actually, I think that that's great that you're focused on building relationships. I think that's phenomenal. I actually think the opposite is what people are not so good at, which is they will, they will be a little bit too formal and they'll kind of get down to business a little bit too much. So I actually like where you're coming from here. Um, but really when you ask them curious questions and you tell them, hey, I wanted to reach out to you because of X reason, and they understand why, like what you're curious about, what they do and all that. They naturally kind of goes in that direction. You need to be a student of your industry. You need to be really like eating, sleeping, breathing what they're doing and just being like, I think that's one of the reasons why people like talking to Cathy is because she would generally be like, I'm interested in what you're doing. Like, let's talk more. And they would not stop talking. So take a genuine interest in folks and what they're doing. How long does it take on average for your clients to land an offer? About 60 to 90 days is the average.

Okay.

Some people fall a little bit shorter. Some people fall later. But I would— that is, that's what we're seeing largely, 60 to 90 days. All right. What's your networking advice for C-level? If you contact an executive search recruiter, what does the perfect first message look like? So, so I'm guessing what you're asking is like, what's your networking advice for when you are a C-level professional or when you're trying to talk to C-level professionals. Because overall, they— it's, it's very similar right now. The thing is, the long messages to C-level professionals is not going to work. They're not going to read your whole thing. Let me tell you about me. You need to cut to really why you're reaching out to them. Follow-ups are really important with C-level because they are busy. Their inboxes are And actually what the follow-up does is they show, oh wait, this person's serious. This person actually cares to talk to me. And so if you contact executive recruiter, what does the perfect first message look like? So executive recruiters, their job is to fill positions. They make their money on that. So you need to make it as easy as possible for them to do that. So if they have any sort of like they've listed the positions they're sourcing for, Or if you're just, you just know based on their profile or whatnot that you are the type of professional they are trying to source. You should either like include the job req number or like the title of the role or anything like that. And also give a very clear intro. Do not make it vague. Do not be like, I'm looking for innovative companies who need an influential leader. No, that's way too vague. Be specific, be what you bring to the table, only a couple of sentences so that they can place you if they have an open role. I don't think that's like the best use of your time. I think, I think optimizing your LinkedIn is a better use of time. But yes, I think that that's great. All right. Let's see. All right. Apply to a job on LinkedIn. Do I also follow up with a hiring manager? What if I see the person has looked at my resume? Do I reach out? What do I say? So you applied on to, to, to job to LinkedIn. Should you follow up with the hiring manager? Yeah. I mean, what we talked yesterday about focusing on not just applications, but also interactions. So that would count as an interaction if you're speaking to the hiring manager or corresponding with hiring managers. So I like that. What if I see the person has looked at my resume? Do I reach out? What do I say? So I'm not sure. In what situation can you tell that someone has looked at your resume? Like, are you— when you are applying to jobs, are you seeing like a notification that they viewed your resume? I haven't heard that to be too common, but that's great. If they have and they looked and they didn't necessarily like what they saw, I would maybe take that as feedback as either I should probably get a referral or I need to like revisit. So remember it was, it was day 1 when I was like, okay, there's 3 different things that are happening. Either the timing was off, right? Like they maybe already have enough people. 2, no one saw it, which in this case it looks like they did. Or 3, your application is poor. So I would maybe also look into that, kind of get some feedback on that.

All right.

So let's see. I see some other great questions here. What do you— what advice do you have for older people looking for mid-level jobs? So I, I mentioned this, I believe, yesterday. 40% of my clients report in their, their intake questionnaire that they fear that ageism is an issue for them in the job search. And so, and I have quite a few strategies. I'll give you actually an anecdote. So I was, I was coaching someone and she, she said she was on a call and I think it was for a mid-level job and The hiring manager, who was significantly younger than her, said, you know, there's— the average age on this team is 25. And my client said, my client said, hey, to me, she was like, that, that seemed like ageism, right? Like, that was such an ageist comment that she would bring up the average age is 25. Here's the thing I said, yes. Yes, that she is acknowledging your age. And yes, that could be interpreted as ageism. I said, really what she was doing there is she was seeing if you were okay with it. She wasn't saying I'm not okay with it. She was saying if you are okay with it. And that's the thing that's a little bit on you guys. Like I have a lot of clients where they're interviewing with leaders that are younger than them. And I say, you need to be the one who is making it so that they know that you're okay with it. So I'm always coaching people through how to do that and how to convey that, because that is super important. And then they go, "Oh." Because that, I was actually, I think it was actually kind that that woman said that, because she was giving my client the opportunity to reassure her that like, "That's not going to be a problem for me. That's not going to be an uncomfortable dynamic that some of the people who have higher titles than me are younger." And so you really need to like start opening your mind to that of, again, we're trying to reduce risk. And we're trying to position ourselves as a great team player. And so they just don't want you to feel awkward. Now, of course, there's— I'm sure there's tons of alternate examples where maybe they were just blatantly rude to you and all of that, but this is what I'm seeing very often.

Okay.

All right. Let's see. Let's see. I want to make sure I didn't Let's see. Jennifer says my interview was postponed due to meeting a meeting on their end. Should I email saying I'm looking forward to it? I would, I would respond to the thing that you— that the meeting was postponed. Be like, okay, got it. And I think repeating that you're stating that you're excited is phenomenal, right? Companies love people who want the opportunity. So I think that's, that's excellent. And but if you already responded and you're like, great, I'll, I'll see you all soon. That's okay too. I wouldn't stress too much about that. Okay, cool. All right. So this has been absolutely a blast. Thank you all so much for your working with me, being so responsive, telling me what's up. I'm really glad we figured this out and I will be better tomorrow. But y'all, you'll see me 3 days in a row, no technical difficulties, and then Today, tragedy struck, but I really appreciate you. This has been fun. Now come back for tomorrow. Put some Wi-Fi high fives in the chat. Um, and we're coming back tomorrow. It's all about interviews, guys. And I know that this is such a hot topic, so we are going to dive into the strategies to be that job shopper, to be that one where even Kathy, she was like, oh my gosh, you know, I, I was, you know, all of these, the companies were like, hey, like, even though you're not best for this position, let's put you into this other position and all of that. Really, how do you make yourself irresistible in this process? So this has been so great. Oh my gosh, you rocked the fourth day. Thanks a lot, says Carol. You guys are so nice to me. Oh my gosh, it says, thank you, WiFi High Five, your book, has helped me get a new job. Oh my gosh, that makes me so happy, you guys. Uh, you guys are the best. Um, seeing lots of, uh, Wi-Fi high fives. Thank you all for coming back day in, day out. It is my absolute pleasure to be here with you, and we're just keeping it real. We're going with it. Uh, and I am sending you all away with a big old fat chunky juicy crunchy Wi-Fi high