How To Land Manager and Director Roles Faster

And go ahead and say hi in the chat. Today we are talking about how to land manager and director roles faster. Okay, we're in the job market. These roles are competitive. With every level you go up in your career, things, you know, there's not as many roles open in that, in that leveling, and the stakes are higher. Really, these companies are looking for someone who is going to manage people, going to influence strategy, and they're going to get sizable salaries. So how do we land these jobs faster? We will talk about that today as well. As always, we are doing a live Q&A. So the way I do these sessions is I am always looking at the chat. I'm seeing some amazing hellos in the chat from Casey, the Spicy Diva. David's here. Welcome, welcome. So I'm here to answer your questions live. So please put those in the chat. I absolutely love them. So good to see Janice is here. All right. So let's dive in. So keep putting your questions in the chat. Keep saying hi, keep saying where you're joining us from. And we'll keep the conversation going. So if we are trying to land these roles faster, so this means from all the way from a company learning that you exist all the way to them giving you the offer, the number one thing that if you do this wrong, the rest of it doesn't matter, is making sure you're targeting the right opportunities. So when I work with clients, this is such a huge piece for, for us. So as part of our coaching program, we actually, we take off the, the super time-consuming action of finding the right job postings and applying to those. We do that for our clients. We say, hey, there's so many other high-importance things you need to do that take more mental energy, such as building relationships, such as preparing for those interviews that you have coming up. And so what we say is, hey, we'll apply for you, we'll find those opportunities for you, because I mean, scraping through all of these job boards, reading job descriptions, is this the right fit? Is this the right leveling? Is this the right location? Is it hybrid? Is it remote? All those things take so much time. So anyways, so we do that for them. But in order to do that for them, we, in order for that to be really high performing, we're super focused on the targeting. So that means we will say, okay, you know what, what job titles do you want? And they'll say, oh, maybe this one and that one. It's like, okay, There needs to be correct market demand for each role. So what is market demand? That means that there needs to be enough openings, enough companies asking for this expertise in order for it to be worth your time to search for that role. So few of us really evaluate our job search by that criteria. So that's the first thing. And then, okay, so if there's market demand, then let's make sure we get the leveling correct. Let's make sure we get the industries correct. Let's make sure that Then once we have those titles, everything else is aligned. So that is extremely important when you are going on the job search. A lot of, a lot of times we're a little bit too loosey-goosey. We're a little bit loosey-goosey on the leveling. We are thinking, well, I could do kind of this function, or I was also thinking of also pivoting into this. And it's like this distributed attention actually leads to far fewer offers and far less results as a result of it. So I'm seeing a question from Michael. I interviewed for a CIO position. Wow, congrats. What are your thoughts about following up by sending the interviewer a 12-month plan? Yes, I think that's great. I think especially if it's a later round interview, of course, if it was a recruiter interview or whatnot, I would get into the process a little bit deeper. But yes, I think that's great because what it does is you want— and this is, this is really important, especially as you get more advanced in your career going for these more competitive roles— is you want them to picture you in the role. And what so many people do to do that is they focus a lot on their past experiences. And the challenge with that is If your past experiences aren't very close to the role you're going for next, essentially you didn't just do that exact role at a competitor who does the exact same thing. Sometimes there's a little bit of a mental leap that has to happen in order to picture you in the role. So actually to really cross that chasm by doing something like this, you can then start to actively say, well, here's my 12-month plan. Is this what you're seeing me in the role? And then it can actually— this can actually be a jumping off point to a conversation. Which is the best part. Um, and, and that is a really great approach. So I love that. And The Spicy Diva says, I've been interviewed for 3 director roles. The last 2 did not work out after the phone screen. Currently the past sec— past the second round and waiting to hear back. What are common pitfalls to avoid? So if you are losing out after the first round interview, it's because of 3 reasons. Okay, one, they didn't see a skill match. Okay, they did not see you as competent. So whatever they thought they saw on your resume, when they maybe asked you, they probed you, hey, do you have these skills? Do you have those skills? They didn't feel confident in that. The second reason is you— is something logistically Can you start by this date? Can you come into office? Can you have this salary? Whatever it is, something possibly logistically went wrong of, well, that wouldn't work out because she couldn't work for us for 4 more weeks and we need someone within the next week, right? Something like that. And the third piece is communication slash likability. So the way you communicated made you come across as maybe not very much a leader. Maybe you sounded disorganized. Maybe you were rambling. Maybe they couldn't quite follow. Maybe you were not very likable. Maybe they just felt like, I could not really see myself working with this person. So those are the 3 components. So I would say, you know, as a coach, I would audit someone because I actually listen to my clients' interviews. They record them and I listen to them. And I would basically kind of pick out, okay, here's the things. And then once you go into second and third round interviews, that's where it gets to be a bit more into behavioral interviewing, skill-based interviewing, your vision, your, your philosophies, those types of things. So it gets to be a little bit more— we need the consultative approach. You need some more advanced interview strategies. One, one example that comes to mind that I think is really important as you're kind of going for these manager, director, VP-level roles, especially once you're in the interview process, is I currently have a client. He's 3 interviews deep with a massive retailer. You've definitely heard of them before. And it's his dream job. It's the one he wants the most. And he's actually great at interviewing. He gives very specific examples. He communicates very clearly. But because the roles he's going for are at a higher leadership level, and the roles he's targeting around $250,000 to $300,000 paychecks, it's the— this just being good at interviewing is not enough. So the things that I've been really telling him is his skill set is amazing, but he's coming from a different industry than this like retailer industry? And he told me, well, every job I've come to, I've had to learn a new industry. And I've also found that when I come into a new industry, that's actually an advantage. Because, because I, because I have this outsider knowledge, I actually see things that they don't see. They're so close to their own situation that I see these other things that, that another candidate wouldn't see. And I actually really help these companies to, to do a lot better. And I said, you are 100% correct. That is exactly the way companies should think about your expertise. But that is not the way you are going to position yourself to companies. And I will say, this is something I have to coach people through a lot. They think that their advantage is what makes them different. And I'm sorry, because we were always taught that. What makes you unique? What makes you stand out? I, I don't subscribe to that. I don't actually think you should, quote, stand out. I think you should show how your expertise actually completely fits in. Show how what you've done in the past, even though it was a different industry, is actually super similar. And you have to break it down in elementary terms to where— because a lot of, a lot of clients I work with, they'll say, well, I wrote that on my resume because if you know about that, you know that that's actually similar to this, and you would see the connection. I say, nope, too complicated, too complicated. You need to make it extremely clear. You need to make it in plain language how this is the same as this. Do not imply it. Do not blah blah blah, right? So I said, I hear you. I hear that your your difference is actually what makes you amazing. But that's not what we're going to sell them. What we're going to sell them is that you're actually the same, that you're the same as them, that you understand them, that you understand all their problems. You know how to do this. You've studied the way their storefronts and their e-commerce works, all that kind of stuff, that you are one of them. And if you've heard me talk about my past client, Tina, who landed the offer at Toyota, where before she joined my program, they had told her, We cannot hire you because you are from the oil and gas industry and we are only hiring people from the automotive industry for this role. We love you otherwise. Sorry, you have— you don't have the industry experience. And what did I do? Did I tell her to emphasize that the oil and gas industry is actually really going to be a great influence on this and that that expertise is actually great? No, I helped her to be a chameleon. To become the person that actually speaks their language, that knows their stuff, that attends their conferences, that is someone who seems like they're already in the industry. And guess what? In less than 90 days, she was reconsidered for the position and landed a $40,000 salary increase. They gave her a car, all this kind of stuff. And so I, I really want to kind of like knock over our heads that We sometimes get a little caught up in our story, in what makes us this unique mosaic of experiences. And this gets more severe the more years you have in the workforce and the more diverse experiences you have. But I want to really emphasize to you that you should focus on showing how closely you can meet their needs versus trying to paint this picture of you're a unique candidate who's going to bring something fresh into the team. I know that might be a little discouraging to hear. But it is, it is the way that I've seen so many of my clients win. And especially if you are doing any sort of a pivot or change or anything like that, it is a really important, a really important approach. So a question here. I tend to be on the younger end, but I have a lot of industry experience, especially worked in this industry. Always concerned that I sound too young and eager. Any tips? So this is a very legitimate concern. This is a kind of a ridiculous thing, and people get rejected all the time for not, quote, having a certain executive presence or whatnot. And I've even struggled with this in my career because I did climb the ladder pretty rapidly. And even, I mean, even with the way I talk, in some ways the way I look, I had to change that in ways to come across as having more expertise now or coming across as older or demanding more respect. Um, part of it really is a matter of building your confidence, being someone who really can speak to why you decided in a direction, not cowering, um, not, you know, uh, really claiming a lot of things. Like, I would say I won't go too much into how to do this every day in your job because that's outside of the topic, but I would say in the actual interview I have this, I have this tool in my program called the interview ladder. And essentially, you go up each rung. And if you can meet all 7 rungs of the interview ladder, you essentially have your pick of any job you want. And one of the top rungs is vision and being able to speak to, to both your job and your industry. So for example, I interviewed for so many head of HR roles and VP of HR roles, director of HR roles, like these HR leadership roles. And so they weren't at that level. They weren't just looking for someone say, yes, I know how to do benefits enrollment. Yes, I know how to put together a performance improvement plan. No, they were actually interested in hearing, well, what's your compensation philosophy? How should we build out compensation in a company that's that's fair, that's equitable, that's, uh, you know, not ripping the company off, right? All these things. Or how, how do we increase employee retention? That's not just a, well, you know, let me put together a pizza party. No, it's a full strategy. So being able to speak to those things, um, part of that was being very well read, listening to a lot of great podcasts according to my career. according to my profession. And, and really then also obviously working on my tone. Okay, I'm from Los Angeles. The, the valley girl tone can very easily come through. And so you need to talk with authority, with a lower register, going down at the end of your sentences, those types of things. There's, there's so many different things. Um, and then with my clients, a lot of times we'll do Do I listen to their interviews and mock interviews, and I can give them feedback on these things where I'll say, "Hey, did you realize that you say this a lot?" And that's actually happened. One of my recent clients, she's actually a VP, and just the way she talked sounded like she was a junior level employee. And it's it's a very nuanced thing to get coach someone on because. It's not just, hey, you're not— just say these words differently. It's not always just that. So you're right, it is— that is, um, as important. So as we're kind of talking about this, this topic, um, and, and with my example of not being super, you know, the— my client who was really good at Interviewing, but was not being specific enough. I would say that even a big thing I worked with him on was actually his his his tell me about yourself answer. It got really broad. It was very much a summary of his work experience when a lot of times we need to shift what that question is and instead imagine they're asking you. Tell me about, like, how your past experience makes sense for this role you're interviewing for. You have to almost hear them say that question instead. And once I told him that, he started to reconfigure the way his, his brain was working, because companies don't actually care that much about your story, your work history, all that kind of stuff. They might say they do, and in some ways there's always an ulterior motive. They're not— they don't actually care about your story. They care about maybe if they say that they're maybe caring about your character. So maybe they're understanding that the technical skills, the hard skills are not the only thing that makes someone, which is very true. But really, when they're looking into your past, they're looking for character. They don't actually care that you were a lawyer and then you were in sales and now that makes you a great product manager. They actually care about, okay, but when he was in sales, was he a top performer? performer, you know, when, when he was in law school, like what, you know, is there an achiever pattern there? So that's really the things that are important. So what recruiter mostly see when they interview for manager-level role? How to win those? What recruiter mostly see when they interview for manager-level roles? Um, and how to win those. So what do they mostly see? So I guess, are you asking like, what, what does your competition do? What do they, what do they mostly see when they're interviewing people? Um, so I would say at this level, at the manager level, this is where we see a lot of people getting rejected for rambling. Because you can ramble a bit if you're an individual contributor, that's fine. You're not leading people, you're not leading meetings. You know, as long as the actual content seems correct and that you seem competent, that's fine. But once you get to the manager level and beyond, you— that, that excuse is out the window because they now know you are going to be in front of other leaders. You— they now know you're going to be in front of other team members. If anything you say is kind of confusing or rambly or unstructured, they're going to say this person is not going to be worth our time to work with. Because they're kind of all over the place. So I would say that that is a huge thing. Really start getting structured with the way you communicate, with how you view your role, with how you view how you execute things, with very specific examples, very relevant examples. That's really, that's been the hugest thing for folks who do this stuff. So, Regina asks, for what do you recommend for case presentation? So typically I see these in consulting. Um, so, uh, you're given some sort of, uh, you like some sort of case where you have to, you know, come up with your solutions and then present it. So, uh, I would say for these, remember that sometimes that you're given the ability, or, or, you know, see if you're given the ability to ask questions before you dive in. Um, you know, they'll, they'll sometimes tell you like, hey, no questions. Or if you start asking them, it's like, no, just kind of go with your own gut, then that's fine too. I wouldn't, I'm gonna freak out about that. Um, and, um, and I would even say like, especially if, if it's something that's going to happen live, I would try to do practice ones ahead of time because that's what's happening a lot more is instead of you stepping away and doing it on your own, a lot of them are where they'll have you like sit in a room and do it because of— they want to make sure that it's actually your work. And too often people don't do a practice run of this. They don't. They, they'll just like read a bunch about it and they'll come here and they'll sit and they'll listen to me talk about it, but they won't actually sit down and do the hard work of doing a practice run, which I think is really important. Um, so David asks, are you familiar with the giver and taker personality types? Adam Grant describes them in Give and Take. Is that something to avoid mentioning in the job search? How do you bring it up? I have not read that book, unfortunately. In corporate career gap, does career gap really matter? How to handle this? So I would say that I think job seekers think it matters more than it does. Like, I think most employers are pretty okay with there being gaps, and that's pretty understandable that you'd get laid off or you'd have a kid or you would do, do whatever, right? Uh, it's, it's normal not work Every single moment of your life from age 20 till you die. Now, that being said, the the the thing you have to realize, and people don't realize that it's this it's this simple. All companies care about is can you essentially hit the ground running with minimal training and minimal mistakes? That's what can you make us money? Without us investing tremendous resources into you. And if your career gap happened most recently, so you've been unemployed for an extensive amount of time, that's their question. Can you hit the ground running? Are you are you sharp? And frankly, it's normal to not be as sharp if you haven't worked in a year, two years, three years, four years. That's I mean, we can— I think we can all agree if we haven't done a skill for that many years, that it's normal to be a bit rusty. And so you need to make sure that you're finding ways to not be rusty anymore. And that are provable, tangible ways that can show that. So that's really the thing. No one really cares about the gap. They care about you being rusty. And so it's a very, very very practical concern that I see tons of my clients, you know, they're able to, they're able to get beyond that. So we have received the question, how can you convince senior stakeholders that you can do this job? How would you recommend you tackle this? So I would go line by line of the job description. If you're— if you in particular are struggling with this, go line by line. The thing they're asking you on the job description on one side, and then write out examples of how you have done that in the past. And if you can do that for every single thing, or, you know, you can find something comparable or whatnot, You then can almost take it point by point. Like, like one, for example, when, when you're asked, why should we hire you? So many people just start going into some sort of pitch when really what you should do is you should say, well, okay, let's, let me make sure I understand exactly what you're hiring for. My understanding is this role is going to focus on X, Y, and Z with a main goal of this and this and this. Is that correct? And then they might say, Yes, or they might say no. You got this wrong, or whatnot. So you figure that out. Once you show that you understand them, you then can speak to that. Well, so the first piece where you want someone who can do this. Well, I've done that here and in this ways. And as I've been thinking about that piece, here's how I was thinking I would do it at your company. Right? And you kind of go piece by piece. And now you're not just talking about yourself too too often. We're just like. Spilling out. Oh, well, let me talk about myself and all that kind of stuff. No, now you're talking about them. You're talking about what are they looking for and how are you going to match that? And so I think shifting your mindset here and instead of thinking like, what makes me interesting and wonderful and great at my job, instead of thinking, well, what are you looking for? And let's meet your criteria. And how can I match that for you? It's a much more effective mindset. How to handle projects that ended after a short duration because the client was disorganized, didn't have proper funding, or other reasons, um, says Karen. So especially if you are having, uh, especially if it's, if it's more of like freelance work and you have multiple projects, you can either just leave them off, or that's fine, just write that it It, you know, that's— it ran out of funding. I wouldn't, I wouldn't overemphasize that. I think people sometimes are a little bit too focused on, okay, well, that was the most recent one, so I need to put that one first on my resume. But if, like, let's say it's a collection of, of, like, different clients you have and you're kind of putting that all under an employer umbrella of your— of you being self-employed, just don't put that one at the top or don't include that one at all. Like, the great thing is that you're the author of your story, so you can tell them as much or as little as you'd like. Yes. So Donna says, good advice about your story when telling about yourself. I changed my story and it made a big difference with a few questions, with follow-up, follow-up questions. Okay. Also with career gaps, if you can explain them, I have not had issues. Exactly. If you can explain them, if you are already competent, Like if you're showing that you're already competent, that you have no skill gaps, that is phenomenal. I love that. Thank you for contributing that, Donna. Do you have any job— do you have any advice to maximize your job search chances when you are looking for a job in another city, i.e., show up in more recruiter searches? Absolutely, Angel. So if you are targeting a different city, in your job search, you need to make your LinkedIn profile that city. There is 0% chance— well, maybe not zero, but a very low percent chance that you will get opportunities in that city without it. Now, of course, when you put open to work on your LinkedIn profile, you can select cities that you're open to. So okay, it's not a 0% chance. And there is a way to signal this. That's true. But you put uh, your city to be the new one. Now you might say, well, is that dishonest? It's actually helpful. It's extremely helpful because if they'd reached out to you to go to ask you to work at a job in your current city when you were intending on moving, that's not helpful. You're actually giving them signals that makes them waste their time. And If you're saying, oh, I'm in this location, and then let's say you get into the interview and say, okay, yeah, so this, this, this job is in San Antonio, Texas. You know, are you— do you live here? You'd say, I'm in the process of moving there. Yeah, I plan on being there and I can expedite that move should I land this role. And that is helpful because if you're a great person, okay, great. You're already moving here. Okay, great. talking to someone who's a great fit. And it's not like you're— it's not like you're, you know, saying you won't be able to be in the office. You're saying absolutely. So that is, uh, that's a great way to go about it. How do you tell when a director or manager title is real seniority versus an inflated label on a mid-level role? And how should that change how I apply? So leveling at companies is all over the place. And the thing about job titles is that they are free. It costs me no money to give you a C-level job title, even though you're just, you know, even though you're just senior manager level, right? If I just want to make you feel important, sure, I can slap a C on there. And a lot of actually small, really small companies will do that, right? You'll see someone with like 3 years of experience as their CMO. And you're like, how is this possible? And they're like, oh, this is so cool. I've got this great title. So anyways, I don't know that that's exactly what you mean. But what I mean is, because job titles are free, and because leveling can be so diverse across companies, you can essentially go on LinkedIn and look at who, who's in those positions. Who are the other directors? What does their background look like? See what level kind of they appear to be. See if there's any patterns. All right. What are some tips slash best practices to dig into specific things they're looking for to match your experience to? It seems the JD differs from what is really wanted. This is true. This is true. So, so how do you know what, what is they're specifically looking for? So you get on to the first interview, right? And they might say, are you familiar with us? And, you know, the recruiter might be kind of giving you the spiel. You might say, hey, look, I did read the job description, but I would love to hear from you what you feel like is most important for this role. And take very close notes to the exact words they use when you ask that. Because you'll notice the very first 1, 2, 3 things that come out of their mouth might not be the top things emphasized on the job description. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. And then you go into the next interview. Maybe it's with the hiring manager. You ask them the same thing. Okay, I've read the job description. I've talked to this person. But I'm really curious from your, your perspective, what are, what are the most important things When you describe this role, what, what, what are those? Um, you can even ask the hiring manager, you know, oh, I— so this role's been open for, for 3 months. Got it. Yeah, it's, it's tough out there to find good talent. What do you feel like has been missing from a lot of these candidates? And when you ask them that question, some really interesting answers come out. They might say, well, we've been looking for someone with this industry-specific experience. And you go, that was not a requirement on the job description. But yet the hiring manager is so caught up on that one thing, or we really want them to be really good at X thing. And you think, well, I'm actually really good at that thing, but I have not been emphasizing it because I did not realize that was important to emphasize. And now you could say, oh, really? That's a big part of the role. Well, that a lot of my time at my most recent job I'd spent doing that by doing X, Y, XYZ and all that kind of stuff. So you— that by asking those questions, you can unearth some really interesting things that you wouldn't have known otherwise. All right. So Claudia says, I skipped a few career levels thanks to networking and jumped to a head of sales position. It makes me undermine my value a lot, which I feel comes across in interviews. How can I stop this? So I would say it really comes down to if they were to hire you, would you be able to do what they're asking you to do? And if the answer is yes, if you look at the job description, you say, yes, I could do it. Because I will say, I have, I have coached people before where this, quote, imposter syndrome was well warranted. Yes, you are drastically underqualified for what you're going for. You're feeling a little bit weird because you're, you're reaching way beyond what your skill set is. But I think we've been a little bit brainwashed to think that years of experience equate to quality of experience, and that is 0% true. Okay, if I swim every day this month for 6 hours a day Just because you have been swimming a few times a year for the past 3 years, you know, maybe I will get even better because I'm— the intensity, and maybe I'm training with an Olympic-level coach and all this kind of stuff. Like, the quality of my swimming experience will be dramatically different than you who just has a pool and swims every now and then. So that goes to say that a lot of us actually have work experience That is intense. That yes, we may have skipped a few levels, but what were you skipping? Were you skipping some of the things that were, you know, maybe some skills you've already acquired? You know, maybe setting, maybe scheduling, maybe kind of like those things. Then you kind of jumped ahead and then you had to learn very quickly. So okay, so if you actually do have the skills that they're asking for, it would actually be in some ways almost unethical for you to to. Play yourself short. Because if you are someone who could perform the job and could really help this company, why would you deprive them of hiring you when you're playing— while you're playing small? Which is a huge part of my mission when I'm helping job seekers, because I have a lot of people who, who are accelerating their careers and do have these thoughts and feelings. And it's actually a disservice to the companies if you downplay what you do. And so we did talk about this earlier. Um, kind of when we talk about executive presence. But another tip I will give you is I need, I need you to stop saying we so much in interviews. We did this, we built this, we put this together, we landed this, whatever it is. We does have its time and place, but the company is buying your services. They're buying your time. You need to start saying I more often. I had the idea that we should do this. I told the team this. I noticed this issue is happening. And then I delegated duties, right? So just start saying I more because you need to start claiming what actually you do. So Shima says, thank you so much, Madeline. Your advice is always so helpful. I have 2 final stage interviews for senior level positions in 2 different companies next week. I'm so ready. Thanks to you. That is incredible. Wow, final stage interviews. Okay, fingers crossed. You've got this. Keep going strong. All right. So let's see. We got a lot of— we got a lot of good questions here. So yes, Jana says, totally. Job description differs until I talk with them. It switches everything I prep for. Oh my gosh. It's So it's so tough, right? When that happens. Oh my gosh! Hi, Delon. Good to see you. And David says, "I can't recall a recent opening in my field where the GAD and the actual job didn't differ significantly." Okay, so you're saying that it did differ a lot. Oh my gosh! It's it's so tough. It's so tough. All right. So Andrea asks. Should how or should you include relevant slash applicable volunteer experience on resume to help explain career gaps, or should it only remain part of where it of what is shared in the interview? Yes. So here's the thing: I do not believe valuable experience is determined by how much you were paid to do that. Such as if I took on, say, you know, a, a client and I didn't have them pay me a dime, okay? And I'm— I, I, you know, we, we did all the whole thing. We, we helped them to target the right positions. We applied for them, um, using our team to make sure that they're getting applications done. I coached them through interviews, all that, and they landed a job. Could I still talk about that to say, hey, I'm actually a great job search coach? Or because they did not pay me, does that negate that experience? Of course I could talk about it, right? If you're like, hey, the results are there, you did the work, of course that is a valuable data point to know that you are very good at what you do. So that's why I think that doing pro bono projects is great. Doing personal projects is great. Doing volunteer is great. It's just about, they don't care that you volunteered. Unless you just want to say like, I volunteered, but like they don't really care unless like, what did you do that's relevant to what the work that you're doing going for next? And sometimes you don't even need to position it as unpaid or anything like that. Sometimes it's just, I did this work, it was for a nonprofit, I helped them build this great marketing funnel, done. Like you don't have to actually say this was pro bono, this was unpaid, this was volunteer. Just talk about the value. And I think that's great. All right. So hi, Madeline. Love your content. Little tangerine emoji. Love that. If someone has been sick for a couple of years and it has a blow on one's confidence after a successful career, can they still target senior level roles? If yes, how? Yes, I've had this happen for a lot of clients. This is, this is a a normal life occurrence. Okay, this, this happens to the best of us. It's, it's, it's weird to expect that all of us would just have flawless bills of health for our entire adult life or even childhood. So this is extremely common. Um, I think one of the things that you need to start doing is if you are— if you've gotten your energy back, if you're ready to get in the job market, A big blow to confidence is what I was talking about earlier. Is what gives us confidence is doing something and proving to ourselves that we can do it. That's what confidence is. Action always comes before confidence. No one's born confident. You you jump off of this little hill and you can land, and that gives confidence. And you scurry up a higher hill and you jump off, and you know. I'm thinking of my little toddler son who like loves to jump off things, right? And so he's building confidence. And so what you need to do is you need to build confidence in those ways. So you need to start getting some reps in. Friends, you know, that work in different companies or even have their own small businesses, start consulting for them, advising them, giving them advice. And then they come back to you and say, hey, you know, that, that, you know, that Annual planning idea you had that actually was really great and that was helpful. That'll build you more confidence, right? And all again, all this stuff can just be pro bono. It can just be a couple hours a week. But you need to start showing yourself I've still got it. I've still got it. And then that will build your confidence. You need to. I found that some of my clients when they're really low confidence, they start helping other people and that starts to build them up. You're proving to yourself the data points. Hey, actually know this. So be reading more books about your field, your profession, your industry, consuming more podcasts, helping more people, and that starts to build it up. Now, of course, I also have an entire program where we give you feedback on how you're interviewing or mock interviewing. We give you feedback on exactly how you need to change your interview answers. Like a lot of people will come to me and say, okay, well, how do I rephrase this about why I left my last job? And I'll say, well, you say it this way. They go, oh my gosh, that makes me So much more confident. Thank you. Just that rephrasing where I was so caught up in my own story that I was getting too complicated with it, right? So then there's, you know, I can also, I'll put in the chat if you're looking for job search coaching, because that can often be a really good thing if you, if you're really looking to build up that confidence, know exactly what to say. I'll go ahead and pop that in the chat so that you can talk to one of, one of our executive team members, see if see if the program is right for you. Uh, job search coaching. Um, and so I'll go ahead and put that in the chat. All right, so let's see. Um, Claudia says, thank you so much, I feel like I needed to hear that. Oh my gosh, my pleasure. Um, all right, these are great questions. I'm so glad to hear that. Amazing. All right. How do you address 1.5-year gap searching for a job? Okay. I will say I think I've answered this question a couple different ways today. So I will say if you are joining us late, which is totally normal, I think a lot of people joined us a little bit later. I would say kind of go back because I just don't want to— for the people who have been here from the beginning, I don't want to punish them by like rehashing some of the things we talked about. But it's of course, It's a valuable question, and maybe I'll do a whole session on gaps. I think I've done a live before on gaps, but I can also do another one since it keeps coming up. Um, Dolan says, thanks for the shout out, Madeline. Looking to discover the most effective method to tailor the resume to the role I applied for. So, uh, I do have a free master class, um, that you can go to called Resume Revamp, uh, Master Class. I'll actually go ahead and I'll link it in the chat, uh, so that you guys can grab it. Um, so that can help you especially with making sure that your resume is super high-performing. Revamp Masterclass. I've gotten incredible feedback from, uh, from this, from this class. Let's see. I think it goes— hopefully that is the correct link there. Um, sayonaresume.com/masterclass. So I would definitely say check that out. Um, one of the things you have to know is that when, um, when companies are reading your resume, they're not scrutinizing it like word by word by word. They're reading it pretty quickly, and if it's good enough they'll start to read more. And so that class also kind of gives you how to essentially optimize your resume to control where they look. And if they're looking at your resume very quickly, you want to control for that. And so if you are editing your resume, if you're kind of like tuning it to certain jobs, you don't actually have to edit the whole resume. You really just have to edit certain parts where they're going to spend more time. And essentially, if those parts are optimized, you're golden. You don't, you don't really have to overly, uh, edit it. I think that's the thing is like people will be like 3 jobs down, like on the 4th bullet optimizing that, and that's just a waste of time. So I would, I would focus on, um, what that, uh, what, what that session talks about. So Claudia says, I've sent thank you note after my first interview expanding a little on a specific challenge she mentioned, sharing what I've done with a few numbers. Was that unnecessary? Will it come off as desperate? Okay, so here's the thing about this, Claudia. Um, I think it's helpful simply for you to sleep at night, right? I think that this move can sometimes move the needle Um, I don't think it necessarily hurts, and I think depending on the way you wrote the email, I don't think it necessarily comes across as desperate. Though there is an element where it'll just— it's like you have— if they did misinterpret what you said, or, you know, if that was the nail in the coffin or whatnot, at least you had a chance. Like, at least you can sleep at night knowing that you shared that information. So I don't necessarily think that was a misstep. Usually when my clients Do this, I actually discuss it with them and we draft the email together and we make sure that it both continues to build the relationship and also helps my client to sleep at night. Um, though I never guarantee that this is going to be the magic thing that turns everything around. Um, so I think you should feel good about it. I, uh, I think you're fine. I, I don't think you should stress too much about it. All right, let's see. Lots more good questions coming through. I recently started a new career chapter and lost 2 close family members within the span of 8 weeks. Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry. I left my role for bereavement leave. I will likely be out searching for 3 to 6 months. I've not been in this situation before. Yes, that is so, so challenging. It is. It's a— I've had a lot of clients who have had some really tough life situations happen while they're job searching. That's literally like if you even look at my stats of my like success percentages, it's my success is my most recent one is like somewhere in the like 90-something percent of my clients land jobs. And if you look at the percentage of people who don't within the 90 days, Um, it's usually people who have big life events happening during the job search that prevent them from giving it their full attention. Some health thing happens, their, their parent dies, uh, their house burns down. Like, life happens. And I want to say that when you are job searching, it is already such an emotional and financial strain. And you even, even my clients who everything's going really well for them, like, it's so funny. It's like, I do have like a, a Slack channel where my clients can interact. It can sometimes create this dynamic of like some, some of my newer clients be like, oh my gosh, like, I really need more interviews. And then others will say, I'm really stressed out. I have 4 different final round interviews this week. And there's just so much and I don't know. And it's like, And sometimes the other people say, well, this— you're stressed because you have so many opportunities. And then they'll be like, oh, now I got— of those 4 opportunities, I got 3 offers, and this is so stressful. And it's like, okay, so what I'm trying to say is that every single step is very stressful, um, because it's all high pressure, because, um, you really only have one chance at a first impression, because there's so many unknowns. And so when you're job searching, you're actually going through a highly emotional period of your life, which has been a really big thing I've had to learn being a job search coach, is I'm not just helping someone optimize their LinkedIn profile. I'm helping them to navigate a massively stressful moment in their lives. And that comes with a lot of triumph, but also comes with a lot of— it's kind of like why I'm sometimes the punching bag of commenters or stuff like that, because I know that these are people who are really going through some tough times. And so I just want to say, like, give yourself some grace. Um, this— you're, you're really holding a lot of things that are heavy, and you can do anything, but you can't do everything. So breathe, pause, slow down. I love that you're here. I love that you're looking for strategies on how you can work smarter instead of harder. Um, but if you're spiraling in a certain moment or you're finding this all really stressful, I want you to know Unfortunately, that is super normal. All right. Cool. David's sharing that I have videos on how to send thank you notes. Thank you for telling that. That's perfect. Yes. David says overthinking. I understand that. Yes. This was such a helpful answer. I'm so glad to hear that. Um, oh cool. And then yes, David mentions Reverse the Search is available at many libraries. I bought a copy so I could make notes in it. Um, yes. Um, amazing. Cool. Yes, Lori says I bought a copy for the same reason. I know I do the same thing. I, I've actually started buying a lot of books where I'll buy the audio version and the physical version depending on the type of book it is, right? Like if it is a little bit more like a, like a Reverse the Search where there's just like a lot of, um Where it's like a do— like a doing book, like where you have to actually like execute what's happening in the book. Um, yeah, I'd like listen to the audio and then I'll reread it and I'll take notes in the book, and then I'll— I typically won't revisit the audio, but I'll keep revisiting the physical book. So, um, yes, yes, I can relate to the overthinking trap too. Um, okay, that's what Claudia's experience Um, yes, overthinking. Oh, I know. Well, that's, that's, that's one of the whole reasons I built my, my coaching program in the first place is there's a lot of reasons to overthink in the job search. Is this email going to come off wrong? Should I follow up now? Is it worth it to reach out to this person? And those are all very good questions because in a lot of cases the answer is, well, it depends. It depends how you do it. It depends how you reach out. It depends Like, you will get kicked out of this hiring process if you do that the wrong way, but it could accelerate you if you do it the right way. So, um, I, I totally agree. Um, I know I had to, I had to negotiate a contract the other day for something that I never, I've never had to put together a proposal for this type of work before, and I stupidly used ChatGPT to help me to, okay, how much should I ask for? How should I structure this? And I lost the deal. It went to someone else. Um, I think ChatGPT told me just to ask for, for too high of money and all that. And I was definitely willing to do it for, for less for this. And I, and I, I knew in my gut that maybe I shouldn't listen to it, but it's like, why are we listening to these generic AI platforms that don't know really what they're talking about, that they sound really good, but it's like, what are you referencing? So anyways, it was kind of like I felt so stupid for falling for that. I understand what it's like to be a novice in other situations, but I'm obviously so experienced in the job search realm that of course, like every second I'm like, well, no, don't do that. And that AI is telling you to do the absolute wrong thing even though it sounds right. That's obvious to me, but to anyone else who's not in my world every day, it's not obvious. The same as it wasn't obvious how this proposal should be created, and I took freaking advice from a, you know, a generic language learning model, and it bit me in the booty. Probably lost, probably lost a lot of money just because of, uh, my inability to handle that on my own or actually talk to someone who actually has the right expertise. All right. I apply for systems building roles and struggle to balance clear and precise responses with showing vision and full understanding. What's the best approach when you don't know how detailed to get? So if you're struggling with details, you want to give a menu answer. So that sounds something like, and as I, as I built this system, Some of the components I built were X, Y, and Z, and then blah, blah, blah. And then like, and then some of the big challenges I ran into were A, B, and C. And you can basically, you can either just list them or you can even pause there and say, well, do you want me to dive into any of those before I keep going? No, no, keep going. Or yeah, well, can you actually talk more about B? Because that's actually what we're really interested in, right? So just giving a little bit more menu answers. instead of just guessing what they want more details on can really help. Okay, so C. Fran says, I send hiring managers a LinkedIn connect when I apply. How much weight does that carry? And what does that help versus just annoy? I think it definitely, it definitely can help, especially— well, it just, it can help as long as you're sending the right thing. Okay, so I definitely have a tool in my program that writes it for you, and it actually gets really good responses. But yes, I mean, in a day and age where so many people are just blasting out so many applications, not reading any job descriptions, it's showing that you're genuinely interested. So that's, that's solid. Lori says Madeline's book Reverse the Search is a great resource. It explains expands on the concepts in her masterclass. I'm so glad to hear that. I've just been getting incredible feedback from the book. So, thank you for, for saying that. And the currency of the book market is reviews, both mainly on Amazon and Goodreads, and I think Barnes Noble as well. So, if you have read this book and you've loved it and you're able to give a review, please give a review on one or more of those sites, that it really goes so, so far. So thank you for, for calling that out. Um, so Jessica says, thanks for providing the fit to another industry example. How would you address when you're trying to get those managerial level when you've been an IC most of your career, as well as changing industries? So IC means individual contributor, in case anyone Is unaware of that acronym. So going from individual contributor to manager outside of the company you're currently working for is a big leap. Okay, so I just want to emphasize that that is very difficult to do. It is much easier to do when you are internally already in a company. So you may consider getting another individual contributor role. And then transitioning, or getting a manager-level role that does not have direct reports. Because companies are super wary about bringing anyone on who has direct reports who has not managed direct reports before. And if you haven't, but you're still like, I still want to go for the manager roles, then finding ways that you have maybe not actually where you've managed people, just in a more informal capacity. So in a dotted line capacity. All right. So Colton asks, what can you, what can you do with AI to help escalate your next job search? What tools do you recommend? So I will say, I will say that I think that there are a lot of tools out there that you can use. I had to build all of my own tools, um, and a lot of them do incorporate AI, um, because I wasn't, I wasn't impressed by what was out there. Now, of course, things change every day, um, but yes, I have built my own tools, ones that, like, one of the ones that has been crazy, crazily, like, high performing is my cover letter generator. It's like literally coming in saying like, wow, this is the best cover letter we've ever gotten. So that's, that's been nice to hear. I have a, I have a headline generator, LinkedIn headline generator, an about section generator. Of course, you know, there's lots of tools around the resume, interviewing, all that kind of stuff. So yes, I would say, you know, you can use AI, but it took me Took me a long time to get these tools to a point where their outputs were not absolute crap. And now their outputs are great, but it took so many iterations because the actual— the intuition of it is kind of going to just a lot of the slush online that's just like just terrible job search advice we've been getting for decades, which actually some of the terrible job search advice we've been getting for decades did work decades ago, but it keeps showing up in the AI because the AI is pulling from all the resources it can find, and a lot of those resources are outdated. All right. Okay. Valerie says, I just purchased your book. Is the interview ladder steps included in the book? I don't think so. I don't think the interview ladder is in the book. Uh, I would say, uh, you— it is in my course Standout Interview if you want to grab that. Um, you can get a preview of my, uh, my interview course if you want to kind of check that out and see what are like the top offer blockers that are keeping you from acing your interviews. Um, and you can grab that at, uh, selfmadeway.com/unshakable for the Unshakable Interviews masterclass. Um, but then yes, if you do enroll in my, um, Standout Interview digital course, it'll have the interview ladder. There's a whole, um, there's a whole— you, you do like a, an assessment to see how you did on the interview ladder, what areas of the interview ladder you need to do. And then when I have clients And they go through the interview ladder. Like I had someone on a coaching call the other day. We had like a group call and and she said, "Hey, I'm struggling my my interviews." I said, "Pull pull up your interview ladder." It was all scores out of five, and all of her scores were under point two five for every single thing on the ladder. I was like, "Okay, so let's get into the interview ladder. Like let's go step by step, rung by rung, and how you're going to prove each rung." And the great thing is. that you can improve it and then you can retake the assessment and then it tracks how you're doing over time. Unshakable. Okay, so there we go. So I just put in the chat the link to the interview thing and then Colton says, thanks for your answer. Can't agree more. He's the one who asked about the AI stuff. Thanks. Valerie says thank you. So yes. So can we purchase your AI tools? So yes, you can. You can purchase them. So what you can do is we have any, any like AI tools related to the resume. You can buy like my standout resume program, any AI tools around Um, the interview, you can purchase that with Standout Interview. And then, um, I am going to, for the very first time ever, make my AI tools around LinkedIn available to purchase outside of my coaching program. Um, I'll, I'll make that available. So I'm actually going to do a free live masterclass revealing how to essentially get sourced more on LinkedIn to get more inbound opportunities. I will say my clients have been absolutely popping off in our success channel saying, oh, I just got sourced by 8 different companies this week. Oh, I just got another opportunity come in here that, that is not posted anywhere online. And I just got invited to interview there, all this type of stuff. And so I thought, all right, I have to stop holding on to this. I have to make this so that it is more easy for— easier for people to afford this should they not want to purchase all like an entire coaching package. So I would say come to my masterclass, Get Hired on LinkedIn. It's live. It's happening on August 26th at 11:00 AM Pacific, 1:00 PM. Wait, I think that's 2:00 PM. 11:00 AM Pacific, 2:00 PM Eastern. I'll go ahead and put that in the chat here. So that is, let's see, make sure, slash, I believe it's in is what we want to do. So, so yes, so that is the webinar that we're doing. It's going to be a live session. It's going to be, let's see, next week, a little over a week away. Definitely come to that. I have never ever done this class before. I've never made— also, this is, this is free to access, and then I've never made it public and ability to access to get these tools, um, if you want to take a step further after this masterclass. So I'm really excited about that, um, so that you can start getting your LinkedIn profile to passively bring you opportunities and all that. Um, it's kind of something that has been a huge draw. I mean, I wrote Reverse a Search, which really is, I mean, a whole premise of research is like, how do you get opportunities coming to you? One of the key components is LinkedIn. And I'll do a live class on that. And then you can also get access to the tools if you decide to take a step further. So thank you so much for coming. If you could put some Wi-Fi high fives in the chat. This has been my absolute pleasure to be here with you. And, you know, we'll get this going again. I won't be here probably next week because I'll be doing this live masterclass for, uh, for LinkedIn, uh, on Wednesday. So I don't want to, you know, confuse anyone with, with, hey, is this, is this the YouTube live or is this the, the private masterclass? And that other one, the LinkedIn one, definitely register because the, the room does fill up and it's not on, on YouTube like this. Like, it's in a private room. It's You have to have a unique link. It's all this kind of stuff. And it will— I will take it down. You know, it's only going to happen then. It's not like something that's going to live on YouTube or anything like that. But this has absolutely been my pleasure for coming on with you all. Thanks so much for joining us today and all— and for all of your wonderful questions. Keep it up. I see a lot of great momentum from you all, and I will hopefully see you next week at the Get Hired on LinkedIn Masterclass. So I'll give you a