Start With Why: Part 4 | Book Club with Simon

Hello everyone and welcome to Start with why Book club episode number four.

So I wrote Start with why Start with why came out 10 years ago. And we're going to come out with a 10 year anniversary edition. And so I have to reread it and edit it to bring it up to date and make all those changes. So I figured why should I read it by myself?

It would be so nice to read it with other people. And that's how we had the idea for book club in these Corona times. We thought it would be nice for people to do something together, to start a book club, to read books together, discuss the books and then we would all get together to answer questions and hang out and talk about start with why, which is really fun. So thank you everyone who has joined us. I want to do a couple little shout outs. Where are the names of those? Gonna do some shout outs from all the book clubs around the world. We've got Club de Lectura de los Dragones. Welcome. The JCI Greenwich Book Club in London. Welcome. Thank you for joining. We have the Virginia Department of Transportation, the Road Ahead Book Club. Welcome, welcome. Rush. No more book club. I think you guys. And then there's the Bubble Readership Club in Oregon. And my favorite, the Dakota Potato Peel Pie and Literary Society are back joining us again. And I know there's folks from Egypt and Belgium and Denmark and London and France and Turkey and Poland and Toronto and Switzerland and Ireland and Durham, North Carolina and Cape Town. It's amazing. It's wonderful. It's a global event. It's so much fun to see you all. Okay, thanks for sending all of your questions.

Last time I talked about. What did I talk about last time we talked about? Well, we got into the thick of the golden circle this time. Section 4 is really about the movement itself, how to build the movement, how to turn the Y into a megaphone, how it all works together. And one of the things I wanted to share with you is this idea of the how type and the why type. These personalities. Now, no one is purely one or the other. There are archetypes. I have a friend named Dash Jamison and when she first became familiar with my work and read this chapter about why types and how types, she decided that she hated me. Because Y types, the visionary idea folks, are the people we usually see interviewed. They're the ones who get all the credit. And so she felt very mad at me because she didn't want to be a how type. She wanted to be a why type. She wanted to be a big idea person. And.

It took her about a bunch of months where she started to recognize that she works with those big idea people. And she recognized that though they have big ideas and though they have have vision of the future, they're completely useless without her. And what she realized was that as a how type and a very high functioning how type, I might add, Dash realized that she had even more value than she was giving herself credit. Unfortunately, our society tends to lionize Y types, but it's completely ridiculous how types are the more functional personalities in our society and they get things done and, and how types can work at much bigger scale, world changing stuff if they find a vision that they align to. And we gave some of the examples. Roy Disney had his brother, Walt Disney, Ralph Abernathy really was the one who was spearheading, organizing all of the pieces behind the scenes for Martin Luther King. Martin Luther King was the Y type, the visionary, but Ralph Abernathy was the one telling people, get on the bus. And so, you know, it's like, you have curly hair, you want straight hair, you have straight hair, you want curly hair. We all wish. I wish I was more functional at getting things done and being more system oriented. But you know, as long as I surround myself with people who are really good at it, then we can get things done together. So all you why types out there, be grateful for the how types, even if they may frustrate you sometimes. And how types, even though the why types may frustrate you sometimes. You guys make amazing teams and those make the best teams. I also talked about Ron Bruder. I thought I would share a story where I learned something else that's not in the book. So Ron, I met Ron and I got to write about him and he became a very, very close friend. And he also became one of my mentors. He's a remarkable human being. And it was from Ron that I actually learned more about what mentorship really means. You know, I get emails from people that say, you know, will you be my mentor? And the answer is no, I won't. For the same reason that if you sent me an email, I just said, will you be my friend? Like, I don't even know you. Like, we can't do that. You can't go up to, we can't go up to strangers and say, will you be my friend? It's a little weird, right? And this is what I started to learn about mentorship. It's exactly the same as friendship. Friendship. I didn't ask Ron to be my mentor like a friend. It evolved and what I learned is a mentor is someone who always has time for you. After I met Ron, I remember I wanted his advice on something, and I called him up, and this was before.

Start with why took off before there was a TED Talk. There was no start with why, because I was still interviewing Ron. And I remember calling him up, and I wanted his advice. And he took my call. He's a very successful guy, and he took my call, and he gave me earnest advice. And I remember some weeks later, I called him again, and he took my call again. He kept making time for me. And eventually what happened is a friendship evolved. And I remember I was at his house once. This is well into our friendship. And I was getting ready to leave, and I put my arm around him as I was getting ready to say goodbye, and I said, you know, Ron, I love that you're my mentor. And he looked back and said something to me that I didn't expect. He said, and I love that you're mine now. This is when I realized that mentor relationships aren't mentor mentee. It's not like it's not just teacher student, but it's rather mentor mentor. That sometimes I didn't realize that though I was coming to him for advice, that he was learning from me too. Just like friendship, sometimes we're the givers in our friendships. Sometimes we're the receivers in our friendships. It's this beautiful. It's this beautiful thing. So mentor relationships are not like champions. You have someone at your company who's your champion. You expect them to put your name forward for a promotion. Mentorship, don't get involved in your. In your career. They're just there and they believe in you. So thanks to Ron Bruder, I learned a lot more about what mentorship means, and it's really much more like a loving friendship.

The celery test, one of my favorite little metaphors, probably more poignant in these times than ever, which is even with the new stresses, even with the fact that we are reinventing our organizations, reinventing ourselves, reinventing our jobs, reinventing so much, even figuring out what our definition of success in life looks like, you know, how we're defining success less about productivity and more about taking time for family, taking time for ourselves, this is. We're learning these lessons. The celery test means staying true to your why. And though the what's will change, and though we can adapt how we do things, regardless of the times, regardless of the situation, regardless of where we work, the why must still remain clear. So I thought that was that was it really? It struck me again I hadn't thought about the celery test in a while and I realized even now as I'm learning new things and I'm doing different things, I've never done a book club before. This is because of Corona that we're doing this. I realized that I still have to stay true to why I do what I do. It's still the celery and I can change what I do. So those are some of the things that reminded that really stood out for me as I read this chapter. It's a this section. I really love that this section is about the building of movement and how it requires a lot of us coming together and these and the idea that none of us can do these things by ourselves, no matter how strong or how clear our why is, it really is about partnership.

So with that, why don't we take some questions? We have some pre submitted questions plus we will take as many live questions as we can. So please go ahead and write them in and I'll get them over here.

Here's one I'll read from Lexi Hi Lexi Gravino. Since the founder's personality and the company's personality are aligned, does the personality or the why of the company get altered when the founder is no longer part of the company? Such a good question. If things are done right, the answer is no. If the founder leaves the company and the why has been properly ingrained into the company, if the founder leaves, the company should still be able to embody the founding purpose, cause, or belief.

From when the founder was there. Unfortunately, what so often happens is we tend to promote the wrong people into the into those positions. We tend to promote, I hate to say it, we tend to promote the how people into a why job. We tend to promote the operators and the people that know how to build. And so instead of looking up and out, to use Laurie Robinson's language, they look down and in. They become more focused on the short term and the why starts to go fuzzy. We've seen this repeat over and over again. I've written about this. You know, Microsoft was a big why focused company. Steve Ballmer came in, it became much more, much more what focused. And we see this happen over and over, unfortunately. But a great example is take a nation state, take the United States, for example. The Y was established in the Declaration of Independence. It's gone in and out of fuzziness depending on the history. But the why has been able to survive beyond the Founding fathers. It's the same for A company. And you'll very often hear that companies will go through hard times or bad leadership, and they'll come out of it. And the new leadership will say, we have to go back to basics. Well, that doesn't mean we're going to make the products that we made 20, 30 years ago. It means we have to go back to our founding values and our founding why. Good question, Lexi. All right, let's take another question. Here's one from the Sorry about the paper rustles there. Here's one from the Pearls of Wisdom Book Club. Hello, folks at Chanel, we love you.

You talk about the alignment of why with regards to corporate cultures. How do you foresee the pandemic impacting corporate cultures going forwards? Well, hopefully this has exaggerated all of the good stuff in corporate culture. Remember, the best of corporate culture is when it's people focused on the why. When founded by a visionary founder like Coco Chanel, in your case, is always focused on people. It's always focused on a visionary version of the world. It's not necessarily just about us. So what I'm hoping the pandemic does, it's forced us all to really reconnect with the people side of our businesses, and we realize how valuable the people are even when our products and our marketplaces have been shaken. So what I'm really hoping when we come out of this is that there will be more focus on corporate culture and more focus on things like empathy, a skill that we've been practicing during the pandemic. So I'm actually optimistic that when things return to whatever new abnormal is going to be, that we actually see much more focus, much more earnest and sincere focus on corporate culture, not just.

Not just lip service.

Here's one from Ignacio.

Ignacio. Yes.

How can I start with why if I'm a how person?

How can you start with why when you're a how person? Okay, remember, everybody has a why, and you're. And you will always start with why, whether you're a why person or a how person, right? The why is the motivation. The why personality. Their whys tend to be things like mine is about inspiring, right? It's very lofty and in the clouds. And, you know, you tend to find the how types, their whys are much more functional. Things like building, constructing, serving, helping, supporting. You'll see that language in a how types, why statement. And by the way.

They love that, you know, when they hear that they're there to build or support, that warms their heart. So everybody starts with why. It's the function of the why, Is that right to say? Yeah, but you still start with why. You still start with your why, even if you're a how type. It's the role your why takes, and it helps you identify the best kind of partners. Because we have complementary why's. We don't have exact whys. We have whys that work together. Good question there.

Here is one from Livia. She's a member of the why is Here book club. I thought why was here. Just saying.

How do you know if you're a why or a how type of person? Are there other types beyond why and how that are needed to ensure people live to their why? I guess I think I probably already addressed that one. You'll know because of where you find. You'll know if you're a Y type or a how type because you'll know what's easy for you. I have a friend.

She is a very, very successful entrepreneur. She's very, very how oriented she's.

And she and I would go for lunch together, and literally, we would get so mad at each other. They were the most frustrating lunches. But could. She would give me business advice, like, why don't you just do this? And why don't you just do that? Why don't you do this? Like, it was easy. And I took it as an. I took it. Like, I got so offended because she touched a nerve because she was telling me to do things that are so easy for her, that are so difficult for me. Like, why don't you just build the structure and figure out a system and do that and then just implement it? Like, and then. And she would ask me for business advice, and I would talk about, you know, these lofty, visionary things that. Why don't you just do this? It's so easy. And she would go so mad at me because those things were so hard for her.

And they were the funniest lunches. We get so mad at each other because we were touching nerves. What was happening? So where is your natural. Where is your natural cadence? What do you naturally find easy? Like my friend Dash Jameson, she's so good at implementing vision, but she can't necessarily come up with it. She can't necessarily come up with a big idea, but if you give her one, she'll make it happen. No, no problem. That's how you can tell, and you'll definitely frustrate each other all the time.

Here's the lime green and tangerine book club. I like that. Is it tangerine the fruit or tangerine the color? Because you said it was lime green. Is it tangerine orange or is it the fruit? Anyway, lime green and tangerine. Book Club we are teachers at the high school level and we are wondering how the Golden Circle relates to public education. We see many connections and want to improve the culture and climate of our school. Great question. So remember, a company is a company. It's a group of people.

The fact that it's a business is just a legal structure, but it's the group of people who come together in common cause. A hospital, a school, it's all the same thing. It's a group of people who come together in common cause. And the why of the school is extremely important to understand. Because not all schools have the same cultures. As a teacher, you know that you've worked in different schools and depending on what the leadership is, you'll have a very different culture. Universities are the same. Just because there's two highly rated schools that you want to send your kids to, for example. The reason we go visit them and the reason we go on tours and the reason we do our research is we also want to understand the culture of the school. Because we want our kids to be good fits in the culture so they more naturally thrive in that culture. And that's really, really important. So a school is the same, A school has a culture, and we want to articulate the why. I've of the school. So what ideally we want to do is if there is an origin story of the school, we want to go back to that origin story. If there isn't, if you have good leadership, then we want to know the why of the principal, the administration, the administrator, or there's another way to do it. You can find out what the if you go through the why discovery process, you can get to the why with the group as well. Different conversation. But yes, we want to articulate the why. And just like a company, we want to write it on the walls, we want it at the beginning of announcements. We want to give awards to both teach.

And people who work in the school and students for people who are upholding, advancing the why and upholding the values. You treat it like any other. It's got marketing, it's got incentive structures. You want to hire teachers who believe in the why. You say this is what we stand for. Do you think you'd like to be here? And then you have all the different personality types, all the different diversity, all of the people who come to a school and make it wonderful and fantastic and bring that cause to. To life. It works exactly the Same way you can replace the word company with school in the book. Start with why and it will read perfectly fine.

Lauren, representing the compass within book Club.

What is your creative process for discovering ways to bring your why to life?

So it's a lot of spaghetti thrown against a wall. Some of it sticks. So remember, a Y is a filter. And when we apply that filter, it's much easier to see things when we see that filter. So for example, if I say, go out on the street and find all the people that you could be friends with, well, you actually know how to do that. You know how to make friends. We all know how to make friends. It's time consuming and it's a little bit like, well, I have to try meet lots of people and some of those people I'll connect with and some of those I won't. But what if we apply a filter? What if we say, go outside on the street and find all the people wearing blue shirts? Easy. There's one, there's one, there's one, there's one. You can instantly find them. So when you know your why, it acts like a filter. It actually, believe it or not, becomes much, much easier to see opportunities and actually to see what are the right decisions and the wrong decisions with. Great. It becomes almost automatic when you know your why.

So I'll give you a personal example.

The things that I say yes to and the things that I say no to. So I'm about inspiring people to do the things that inspire them. So together, each of us can change our world for the better. And my vision, my just cause, is to create a world in which the vast majority of people wake up every single morning inspired, feel safe wherever they are, and end the day fulfilled by the work that they do. So when I get an offer to do a speaking engagement.

My favorite ones to take are when it's an industry organization with 5,000 people attending, representing 3,000 different companies. Because my message is a mass market message that I'm attempting to move the needle and push versus a company that calls me and says, we'd like you to come talk to our top 30 sales reps. They may offer me more money, but I'll turn it down because it doesn't. That's not helping me advance my cause. Talking to 30 people from one organization, I'm not going to move the needle and I only have limited time on this planet. I have to make certain bets and the bets I want to make are ones that advance the cause more. So when you know you're white, it works. Like this beautiful filter. Also, I rely on others, I bring it up with other people. And we don't talk about is this good for the business. We talk about is this good for the movement? And by saying is this the right decision for the movement? What I'm asking my team to do is everyone please filter the this through our filter and see if it holds up. Good question.

Here's one from Dylan Smith. Hi, Simon and team. What do you think is the first step in repairing trust, if possible, if it's been lost between why and how people?

Ah, so good. So the question was what is the first step to take? Thank you, Dylan, for your question. What is the first step to take to repair trust if it's been lost between the how and the why people? In other words, if we got so frustrated with each other, we just brushed each other off and said, you don't get it. That's what we said about each other. You don't understand. You need the details. And I'll say, you don't understand where we're going and we get mad at each other. Well, remember, be the leader you wish you had. One of you has to take the risk to be vulnerable. One of you has to call up and say, I'm sorry.

And the reason that I got mad has less to do with you and more to do with me because you're so good at the things that I'm bad at that when you talk to me as if because it's so easy for you, it makes me feel stupid. And this is, by the way, this is the conversation I had with my friend that when you say those things, the reason I react so angrily is because I feel dumb because it's so easy for you. And I struggle to understand it, that I get emotional and I'm sorry. And very often they'll say something very similar because they'll find the similar insight. So the repairing of the trust and so, and so there's little techniques that you can learn.

To help each other. So for example, I'll give you two very, very simple ones. As a why type, I'm always thinking out loud and I'm always in an iterative process. You can hear it while I'm answering questions, right? You're watching me think out loud. Now, if there's a how type sitting next to me, how types usually think, think before they speak, I just speak. I'm speaking my thoughts. And so this can be very difficult for how types because every word that's coming out of my mouth, they think that that's what I want them to do. And so they're making these big, long lists of things to do. And then they'll bring something to me and say, look what I did. I'm like, I didn't tell you to do that. They're like, yes, you did. You said it. I'm like, I never said it. And they'll show me. Look, you said it. Well, I didn't mean it. I'll say, well. Then they're like, well, how do I know if you said something? So what I've learned to do when I start speaking, I say, I'm just thinking out loud here. And all the how types can put their pens down and allow me to go through my process. And then when I come to a conclusion, I can say something like, I think this is what I want us to do, right? So I say, I'm thinking out loud. That allows people to know that's what's happening. For the how types, what's immensely valuable is at the end of a meeting, at the end of a conversation, the end of a discussion, they say, let me just summarize what we're doing next. And they'll go through their summary. And it gives me the opportunity to say, oh, no, no, no, not that one, not that one, but yes to that one. So I now I prepare them, they summarize. Great little technique. If you can get into that habit, you'll both help each other out a huge, huge amount. Okay, let's take another live question. Should we.

Somebody wrote about, I don't know. Okay, let's anamaria.

About logo and name for a company. Should it reflect the why, intangible, emotional, or the what make it easy to relate your name to the computer you're to the product you're offering. So the question is, should the name and logo be representative of your cause or should it be representative of your product? Okay, there's a danger in naming your company after your product is what happens if you want to make different products.

So for example.

There'S a store in the United Kingdom called Carphone Warehouse. It's really weird that it's called Carphone Warehouse now because it's basically an electronic store. And it seems outdated because it came from a time when they just sold, you guessed it, car phones, those big things that used to get installed in our cars with telephone wire, you remember those.

So it makes it seem outdated. It makes it seem behind the times. Even Apple, Apple's legal name used to be Apple Computer, and they changed it to just Apple because they recognized that they were doing more than just their product. Now does it need to be named after the Y? You can infuse words with meaning, but you're more likely to able to infuse a word with meaning that has no specific.

Meaning unto itself. It's not based on any product. This is why so often look how many companies are named after names. Dell, Boeing, Walmart. I mean they're all Disney. Those are all human. They're all people, they're all people's names and they've become infused with meaning over the years. So I generally recommend naming a company based on nothing. Based on the made up word or based on the philosophy or where you're going or something like that, based on your why. And same with a logo. You really don't want to have a mark that is just a picture of whatever it is you're doing because what if you're not doing that anymore? Something more abstract is a little more flexible and long term oriented.

Simon, a bunch of people are asking what your T shirt message is.

Oh, a lot of people asking because you can see team Mine says team optimist. I thought that was a good T shirt to wear today because that's us. We are team optimist on this book club. Focus forwards, being positive, helping each other out. Yay book club.

Jen Grau. Jen Grau asks.

Should you give trust freely from the beginning of joining an organization or is it something that is earned by the organization over time? Oh, such a hard question.

So the funny thing is we often get this wrong. Leaders often get this wrong. It's the leaders who have to bestow trust immediately, not the other way around. Very often we went to our company and leaders would say to new people, or to any employee for that matter, you have to prove to me that I should trust you. Actually it goes the other way. It comes from us. The rank and file who say to our leaders will prove to us why we should trust you. Because remember, they have the authority, we don't. They're the Alphas, we're not. And so they're supposed to be the protectors. So we're not going to make ourselves vulnerable until we can be sure that our Alphas will protect us. They have to earn our trust, not the other way around. This is why leaders have to lead by example. We won't be honest about our failings, our mistakes and our fallibilities until we see that our leaders do that and offer us a safe space for us to do the same. Because if we just come out and start Trusting and start saying all the things I got wrong and all the mistakes I made. And we're in an organization that. That would actually hurt us and get us fired or get us. Or we won't get a promotion because of it, then guess what? We're not saying a word or we'll get fired. So it's actually ironic. Yes. You want to come in? Not totally cynical, obviously. Like a friendship. You don't show up on the first day of friendship and be like, let me tell you, it's a dance. But the irony is it is the responsibility of leadership to take the risk, to trust first and then we will respond in kind. It goes in that order. Thank you, Jen. Good question.

Why Believers Book Club?

Why Believers Book Club?

Two different types of persons are described. Why persons and how persons are there. What persons is what? Only the tangible output of the why and how person.

Yeah. So the question was there are why people. There are how people are there. What people? There are no what people. What is the tangible product, the tangible work, the countable, measurable something or other that is produced by the why or the how person and best or the combination of those why and how people. So whatever they make do, say is, is the what. So, no.

I don't even have a metaphor or an analogy because they just don't exist. Remember, it's about a perspective. Why folks tend to be more focused.

On the forest for the trees and how people are in the woods going, okay, I see that you want to go in that direction. The problem, there's a big boulder in the way. So I'm going to turn this way and we're going to go around the boulder so that we can get to the direction you're pointing. Because the Y person lives above the trees, the how person's in the trees. And they have to trust each other. Because if the Y person looks down and says, why are you going sideways? I told you to go that way. They have to trust that they're navigating around the trees and through the rocks, that it's not a straight line. It's like a submarine captain says, go to north. Submarine does not travel in a straight line. It travels like this. But the captain doesn't have to say, no, a little to the left. No, a little to the right. The crew knows to go in that basic direction. Same thing. Why person sets the course. How person figures out the path through all the obstacles. That is the best. So that's why they have to trust each other. Because one will be screaming, I told you this Direction. They'll say, can't you see we have to go in this direction? And unless they're talking and communicating, you're gonna have issues.

Devon K. From India.

Asked, what is the difference between why and purpose? So when I wrote Start with why, there were these constant debates I kept having with people like what comes first, vision or mission?

And who cares, right? And the problem was we were having semantic debates. And so I went to people who believed vision comes first, and I said, well, what's vision? And they said, well, it's why we get out of bed in the morning. And I went to people and said, well, what's mission? People who believe mission came first. And they said, well, it's why our company exists. And I went to the people who believe brand comes first or purpose comes first, or DNA comes first, whatever words they used. And they all gave me the same definition. It's why we do what we do. So I decided to call it the why so we could all agree, because I got tired of having these semantic debates, and then we'd make no progress because we're trying to convince people of our definition of words. So I called it the Y. So what is the difference between Y and purpose? Well, I know what Y is because I. We've defined it together. But purpose has so many different meanings. I mean, even if you go to a company's website and they say, you know, you can tell we're purpose driven because, look, we give so much money to charity, that's not purpose. That's just charity. So I tend to avoid those words. And if you see in the definition of why I call it purpose, cause or belief, I put them all in there.

So, yeah, I tend to not use the word purpose unless I'm crystal clear that we all agree that it's the same definition. Okay, let's take a look at some other live questions. Look how many people here. It's wonderful. So nice to see everybody.

Could you be both a why and how type? No. One is purely one or the other. Of course. Of course. Like, if I were purely why, I'd never get anything done. But of course, I'm somewhat functional.

But for me to work in an extreme how environment, like writing a book, it's way more stressful for me.

It's much harder work for me so that you know that if stress goes up, it's because you're in a position of discomfort or weakness. But yeah, of course, of course. Nobody's perfect. It's a Venn diagram. It's not completely separated. We're all, you know, how people can still understand vision and have vision, but we're not, not everybody's, you know, Elon Musk or Richard Branson. I mean those are some serious visionaries. And Richard Branson's the first to admit he didn't know how to read a balance sheet when he started his company. He started surrounded himself with brilliant people. First to admit and you tend to find that, that the best in both is that they have the humility to. And this was the thing that Dash learned as well. The best of both are able to admit what they're good at and what they're not good at and why they need each other. That humility is really important.

This one from the cat from the Big Love, Big Love Club in Cambridge, uk.

Big Love Club in Cambridge. Hi. Cambridge is a lovely town.

My boss is a how type and I'm a Y type. How can we influence in a how hierarchy?

So my boss is a how type and I'm a Y type. What do I do? Well, you, you have to be a.

Remember, it's not a hierarchy. It's just that we tend to have the visionary person stand on the steps to give the speeches because they're, they're good at it. Let's be honest, they're inspiring. But it is a partnership and so you can help your boss find the words that your boss may be struggling to communicate clearly. I find this very often with some really well intentioned leaders who are how types but they're really good people who are trying to do the right thing and they have some semblance of vision that they've cobbled together but they struggle to get it out clearly. And so this is where great speech writing, you know, helps not all leaders write their own words, but rather it's those Y types that may help them write the words. I'll do that for people behind the scenes. There's a bunch of folks that I, that I work with who are fantastic. How types? They're good people. They want to build good organizations and I help them find the words that they're trying to put out there that will inspire people. So help your boss leverage everything that you have you have.

To offer.

Simon, is why really about underlying motivations? Asked Roland Da Silva. Yes, it is. This is, you know, we can be motivated by things externally. You know, I'll give you a bonus if that's motivation. If you don't do your homework, you get no dessert. I can be motivated to do my homework too. A threat of punishment but inspiration is Something much deeper. Yes, it's an internal drive. It's based on our values, it's based on our desire for legacy. It's based of the world we want to leave behind is based on service.

It's something has to be burning bright inside. If we're willing to sacrifice, we're willingly sacrifice something to be a part of something. So I tend to find that motivation is important, but it tends to be much shorter lived. It's harder to be motivated every moment of every day. Sometimes we have bad days, sometimes we don't get enough sleep and I'm not motivated or I or something happened and I'm really not motivated. But inspiration can still live on. You know, I very often equiva what's the word? Make it equivalent to. We'll just skip the grammar. Make it equivalent to like loving your children versus liking your children. You know, you don't have to like your kids every day, but you love them every day. It's the same thing. You can be inspired even if you're not motivated. But internal, external is a good.

Differentiator. Okay, let's see what else we have.

How do we help people find their why? From the professional Resource Center Book club. Thank you, Corey. Okay, so.

This happened last week. We were about finding your why. Okay, so we told you last week that we launched our jumpstart your why workshop and we did it as a little beta and we only told book club about it. And you guys were so wonderful and so fantastic and so eager that you all went to crashed our website because it got too much traffic. So here's the good news. We will be offering more jumpstart your why workshops. Please don't rush over to the website right now. They have been posted. There's a new shop tab. There are new jumpstart your why workshops. You can go there. It's pay what you can, so whatever you can afford. That's the price. It's pay what you can, please. Maybe take a couple days to go have a look and if it sells out, don't worry, we're going to add more because it worked the first time. Thank you. For all those early adopters who tried it. We're going to do it. We also added a bunch of other classes. What we've been doing over the past two, three weeks, going through our own existential flex, reinventing. And what we've tried to do is produce a whole bunch of live workshops. In other words, they're not recorded, they're live and interactive to a lot of themes that are really important to people right now. Things like how to pivot with purpose. Pivot under pressure, too. How do we reinvent ourselves in this marketplace? We have a class for that. We have a class on how to have difficult conversations. That's a big one right now, too. So please go to simonsenic.com slowly. Not all at once. Maybe a few now, maybe a few later. Maybe a few this afternoon, maybe a few this evening, maybe a few this weekend. We've got a bunch of classes and if they sell out, don't worry, we're going to add more. But we have some availability for classes even as early as next week. So please go check it out. We can help you find your why, as well as a bunch of other really cool stuff. Thank you for that question.

What else do we have?

What about this from Chris Salmon? Can a how person transition to a white person and vice versa? Is it possible to have a company?

Great question. Can a how person transition to a why person? And can a why person transition to a how person? Not really. You're really playing to your natural strengths now. A why person can get better at practicing and learning and understanding structure and how to build it. And a how person can get better at learning to appreciate and understand the value of things that are intangible sometimes and.

Big, broad things. But it's what really. If we could just learn the other skill and be as competent in it.

Then we wouldn't need each other. Then there'd be literally no point. For teams. The reality is their natural dispositions, their personality. They seem to be more like personality types. Yes, you can always mitigate. And again, I stress, no one's purely one or the other. We're all combinations, some more or less.

So yes, I'm better at structure than I used to be. Like reading. Start with why. Like, I'm looking forward to updating it. Because I wouldn't. There's a lot of sort of like little things in there that are driving me nuts that I wouldn't. That I didn't do in the later books. Because I learned how to write a book better because I realized it's a highly structured environment. I got better at it. Also, I don't do it alone when I write my books. I have somebody who's an extremely good how type help me organize my thoughts. Remember, I work with someone. That's what produces the better work.

So that's how it is.

Okay, what else do we have out here?

So Issam Sultan has been asking many times to get. He's like the equivalent of the kid in school going, ooh, ooh, me, me, me, me, me. So, yes, Isam Issam Sultan asked, how can I work inspiringly, that is, in a vision of why into a company which has a vision of what if I can apply the vision of why in the company on a level of my department. Thank you. So I get this question so often. Issam, thank you for bringing it up again. I think it's so important and sadly, really, really, really common. I'm in middle management. I work for a company, I'm Y driven. I believe in all this stuff. But what do I do if the company is just numbers driven? If all they do is care about process and they don't care about vision or having an impact? Well, we cannot control that which we cannot control. We certainly can't change people. And no number of anonymously sent books will ever change how they are. The best thing we can do is be the leaders we wish we had. That's the best thing we can do. So you can lead with why in your team. And remember, there's no. It's not like you'll tend to find that the. That the Y types tend to gravitate to things like marketing or things like product development, and then the how types tend to gravitate towards things like finance. Not purely, not purely, not purely. But you tend to see patterns, you know, operations, because that's their natural strength. Now, you very often find Y types in finance, but these are the big idea finance people, the big idea operations people, and inspire the other people in operations. And so what you want to do is lead to your natural type.

Even if you're a how type, you can still, you can still be very inspiring to be around. When you start with your why, your why inspires people regardless of your natural disposition. So Sultan, I mean, Isam, you know the answer, which is be the leader you wish you had. Take care of your team, lead with why with your team, and we'll see what happens.

Here's another one from Sasha from the LA as Lastamente Book Club.

Lastamente Book Club.

Sasha, the importance of why people and how people and how they complete each other. How do I do that? Since I'm a freelancer. Freelancer. I have to do everything on my own.

Ah, so the question was such a good one. What do you do if you're a freelancer and you don't have that partnership where you, where you, you have to be both? Well, the answer is you're going to be working in times of strength and weakness more Often than others. I've been there. I know exactly what it's like.

As a white person trying to build a business by myself, it was excruciatingly difficult. And I ended up relying on force of personality because I didn't know how to build structure.

How types will probably be more successful in building businesses, quite frankly, because they can get the structure right and they get the process right, but they may not operate at a scale that can change the world. And if they quit or retire or die, the odds are much higher that the company will just close.

Because there was nothing. There was no inspirational vision that was holding the people together, that they would want to continue to build the company without their leader. This is very, very common. Most entrepreneurial ventures in the United States, unless they're passed on to family, which is different, because family, you're upholding your legacy. So there's. That tend to go away. In other words, we have about 27 million. I think that's the number, if memory serves, 27 million small businesses in the United States. It's not 27 now. 30, 40. It should be growing if those companies survive, but they don't. So if you're a freelancer, I mean, it's hard now, you can still ask for help. If you have friends who are particularly good at the vision stuff, ask them to help you articulate or write your marketing emails or how you should start meetings, or what's the first page of your PowerPoint when you give a presentation? Ask help. Ask for help. I do that for a lot of folks. I really help with the front pages of things, help with the COVID or the first page of how to open a meeting. And then I let them go do all their structure stuff because they're so good at it. But I help figure out how to start with why. Otherwise they get straight into the details. Like they start a meeting like, okay, guys, so on Thursday we did. I'm like, whoa, let's. Let's back it up. But if you're the how type, if you're the why type, go ask for help from somebody who's really good at structure. You know, if you're. If you're bootstrapping it, then friends will help us. Can you help me build a process? How do I do invoicing? You know, what's the right thing to do? What's the structure to do? And we help each other. It's still a team, even if that person isn't working with you formally or being paid for their work.

Teams come in all shapes and sizes. So we're talking a lot about how types and why types. But I also want to talk about some of the other things like discipline. I mean, remember the celery test was about discipline and the concept of the cone. I just love this idea that the golden circle is actually not two dimensional, but three dimensional. That it is actually basically a metaphor for how a company looks and operates. That companies or whatever it is, even our jobs are really megaphones. And that at the core of that megaphone, you just have the image of the megaphone. A message has to go in to the megaphone. Right? That's the why. That comes from us. We're the representative of the why, the mechanism. Well, how am I going to make it from soft to loud? Well, that's the actual megaphone. And what comes out of it, the words that come out of it, that's the what, right? So a company, what goes into it is the inspiration, the vision, the cause, right? It's all in there. The company itself, it's making stuff, it's producing stuff. And what comes out the other end is a product to consume, words to hear. That's a product to consume. We consume. Martin Luther King's words, that was his product. And I just absolutely love that as a metaphor. And it really helps understand the hierarchy of, of an organization that when you're in the front, if you're on the, if you're on the front line, you're really in a what job? I'm, I'm, I'm right there making, producing, serving, you know, making the french fries at In N Out burger. Best french fries ever. Best burgers every two.

That's right, right there in the front. And then as you go up, you know, middle management is really this, this, this. We have to manage between, between the, both, between the inspiration coming from up on high and getting the actual job done. It's how we gonna do this? How am I gonna turn that into that? That's really what middle management is. I just love that metaphor because it's so true. And the most fun thing is that if the golden circle is based on biology, which it is.

That means there's a biological construction to a business. That there's a limbic component that should be at the top of the organization and a neocortical component, component that's down below. So we have too much neocortex at the top. Too much.

Everything's done with numbers alone and calculations. It loses the inspiration.

But we have to where, if there's not enough of that at the front line. Then we never produce anything. It's all just hippie commune stuff and we never actually make anything. That's what happens when you have too much Y on the front lines and not enough get things done. So it's. It's a nice, magical little combination there.

Here's just a suggestion, not a question. Yes.

Simon, I believe it would be interesting if you would consider to include a chapter at the end of your book when you read the next version with a set of common interesting questions you were asked. Just a thought.

Great idea. Well, so the suggestion was at the end of this revised 10 year anniversary edition.

Of Start with why, that I can include some of the common questions I get about Start with why with the answers at the back of the book. That's a great idea. I think I might actually do that. Things like, what do you do if you're a how person? And.

What do you do if you're a why person in the middle of the organization? That was. Include that one in the back. That's a great idea. Thank you. I think I will do that.

Okay. This is a great one from Paul Moran.

Should a dominant Howe person start a business, adopt entrepreneurial role, or employ a Y person to do this role? It doesn't matter who starts the business. Anybody can start a business. Rollin King, who's a how type, he was the one who actually started Southwest Airlines, but he brought in Herb Kelleher, who was his divorce attorney, who was a better. Who was better at leading with Y. If Rollin King had said, well, I'm the founder of the company. It's my business, it's my idea. You play the second fiddle. You don't, you know, I want to keep you in the shadows. Southwest would not be what it is today. It would just be just another functional airline. So it was actually Rollin King who had the insight that.

The airline business was really for only 15% of the traveling population. It was really only for the elites. And he said, well, what about everybody else? And he was the one who said, we don't compete against the car. We don't compete against other airlines. We compete against the car and the bus. But it was, it was. He had the insight, but Kelleher knew how to. How to. How to preach and how to. And how to lead the people. And I see this very, very often. I can't tell you how common. I see this both in entrepreneurial ventures and even in some very successful businesses where the inspirational founder, because they're such a Y type, they don't trust themselves. And so they ask their friend who. Who's much better at business to be the CEO. And I won't mention some of the companies, but there's some companies that, you know that are like that.

And though those leaders may be good executives and good people and believe in the cause, the problem is we need them to preach. We need them to share the why. And they're not. They're right down and in. In the weeds in the functioning of the company. And even the company will do well in it won't survive, it won't inspire, it won't change industries, meaning it won't profoundly shift the way an industry works. It's really that magical partnership. There's a couple of friends that I have now who.

Where, because one of them is better at business, more structured, they made her the CEO.

And I realized that and I said, no, no, no, no. You have the positions backwards. You have the positions backwards. She should be the coo because she'll be leveraging her strengths much more. And it's really, it's about ego because the titles don't mean anything. You know, we have this false belief that CEO goes first and COO or CFO goes second. It's complete rubbish. It's a partnership. It's CEO and COO. It's not 1 and 2. It's 1 and A. They're. They're equals in rank of different capabilities that work in partnership. And the egos have to be in check for that.

So, yeah, no, it doesn't matter what personality type you are if you start the business, but it will help you determine what role you should play as the business continues to grow.

And a couple people are asking, as you're talking about that, about some examples in real life, like Steve Jobs is the white person. Was Tim Cook his how person?

In the early days, it was Steve Wozniak. Somebody asked about Apple if Steve Jobs was the why person, is Tim Cook the how person. So in the early days, it was Steve Wozniak was the engineer. And even though Woz shared all the same vision as Jobs, Woz imagined a world in which one day an individual could compete against an evil corporation by themselves because of the power of the personal computer. But God bless was he's an amazing visionary person, but.

Sometimes he speaks like an engineer. You know, it takes a long time to get what. To understand what he's trying to get at. I thought that was ironic because it took me a long time to get that out.

Jobs was much more succinct and visionary in his language. But yes, Tim Cook is a how type. He was the COO of Apple for many, many, many years. So that's a whole different discussion where now you have a howotype running visionary company. What happens?

So I realize some of what I wrote about Apple.

Interesting. So that's a conversation for another time. I think we've come to the end of another wonderful, inspiring, fantastic, amazing book club. Thank you everyone for joining. We will be back here. Where are my notes? Here they are. We will be back again next Friday, same bat time, same bat channel at 3pm Eastern. Part 5 the biggest challenge Our penultimate episode, the biggest challenge is Success will be May 1st. Please get together with your book clubs. Read ahead. Submit your Questions to book clubimoncinek.com Remember, the whole point of book club is not about reading the book. It's about doing something with each other. That's the important part. If you want to watch or rewatch or go back and hear another answer that was given before we are posting these on YouTube. Feel free to go back and use them for reference whenever you like. If you have a friend or someone in your book club who missed the live session, they will be up and shared on all our social media platforms. Thank you to everyone again who took the jumpstart your why beta last week. It was very, very successful and we're very happy it did. Sold out. You guys are amazing. So jumpstart your why is sold out. Thank you. We will add more. We're going to add more. As long as you guys are interested in it, we'll just keep adding more classes. We're actually training up some more people so we can do more of them more. And remember, there's other classes up there as well starting next week that we hope you enjoy as well. Thank you for coming. Thank you for joining. Again. This is about doing something with each other. Take care of yourselves. Take care of each other. I'll see you next week.