Strategies to be the Most Likable in Job Interviews

Back. We are live. Welcome. Go ahead and say hi in the chat. I'm Madeline Mann, and today we're talking about strategies on how to be the most likable candidate in the interview. Oh my goodness! This topic is so incredibly important because people simply do not hire people they don't like. If they don't like you through the process, unless you are someone who is so, so, so amazing at what you do. Maybe you're a surgeon who's, who is a specialist in a certain area and you're kind of a jerk, but they need, they really need a surgeon to save people's lives. Yes, you can get hired, uh, if you have, if you're unlikable, but most of us are going for roles where these companies have options and people don't want to hire people who they don't like. So we're going to walk through strategies today of how to be the most likable person in the interview process. And it's not always what you think. I think a lot of us think of, oh, you know, you need to have really good conversations with them about things that are not related to work and all of that. And that is totally helpful. But that isn't really— if we only rely on that, That isn't really the thing that will get us across the finish line for most people. It's actually some more subtle cues that we need to have throughout the process, and we'll go through that. Now, the fun thing about these sessions is that we are occupying the same time and we are here live together. So ask your questions in the chat. That is my favorite thing about these live sessions is that it's a conversation. between you and me. And so I love to have the— be able to talk to that. So hello, welcome. I see Karen here, Claudia, Rick is back. So good to see you. And Sidhu, welcome, welcome. Good to see you all. And keep coming in, keep saying hi. And we are going to dive in. So about being likable. Now, there's several things you need to think about. And it's not necessarily about necessarily kind of building all this rapport and all of that. It also kind of is woven into your actual interview answers. And so when we're thinking about it, I read this book called The Culture Code. And in it, it's not about necessarily the job search, but there are some really interesting studies in there. Now, one of the studies talked about how it was essentially a study that talked about almost like presentations, like in Shark Tank, right, where you're presenting to investors. And the study measured none of the things that the person said. They completely ignored any words that came out of the person's mouth or the the things on the slides, but they only measured the interpersonal interactions and the prosocial behavior. And so the presentations that had the most prosocial behavior and the best interactions actually got the most investment. And then when those presentations were re-ranked based on purely the content, the ranking was completely different. And what this taught me is it's very simple. It's very similar to a job interview in that if you're pitching your business, it's not that different than pitching yourself and your skills and your services to a company. And so that's what's so important. And so they mentioned in that study several different components that I'm going to tell you about now. So one of them was that the person believed in what they were saying. Now, this one is absolutely crucial. And you might think, oh, of course I believe in what I'm saying. But a lot of us in the interview, we are actually coming across as not so much believing what we're saying. For example, have you ever read off of a script in an interview? Or you've interviewed someone who was reading off of a script? Let me know in the chat if you've done either. I know it's so much to remember, but if you're reading off of a script in an interview, it will come across as inauthentic, disingenuous, because the idea is if this is your personal experience, you should be able to remember it and recall it. And even if it comes out imperfectly, this is your experience. So it almost appears like you're lying if you don't. Also, it's— you're— you want to give them the impression of what it would be like to work with you in real life. In the actual interview, and you're never going to be in meetings necessarily reading a script. You're going to be interacting, and so that's really important. Next, with believing what you're saying, a lot of it comes in as well as your research. So the fact that you've come into the interview having thought very deeply about the opportunity. You've researched the company. You understand why you're there and and what the company is looking for. Those really help them to like you so much more because it feels a lot more authentic. It feels a lot more aligned that you did that research. You came, you looked at that person's LinkedIn profile, and you saw how long they've been at the company, and you ask follow-up questions around that tenure. You looked up what they've been working on so that when you're asking more or you're talking more about your experience, you're referencing, well, here's what I did in the past. And it's actually kind of similar to what you all are working on now, from what I understood, from what I saw when I looked at blah, blah, blah. Right. These all are all making you so much more likable. OK, I'm seeing some folks. So Jowd says, many times I memorize my answers. Memorization is Not as bad as reading a script, so that's good. It is a little bit, it can come across again a bit inauthentic depending on how you, how you really put it across. So yes, I had a script, but I ended up glancing at it as a reminder, but I ended up saying things about me on my own and it came across naturally. That's perfect. Yes, and I think that that's normal. So with a lot of my clients, they will start with a script and I will read that and I will say, hey, I would say more of these things instead, edit this out. And while I'm editing the script for them, my expectation is not that they're necessarily going to say those things word for word. It's more of the general ideas in the script that I'm looking for. And then I recommend to— you have the script as kind of like a baseline of here's in a perfect world how it would come out. But then once you set that aside, you might even have some bullet points, even like Rick mentioned, that he kind of just looks at the script very briefly. And that's fine too. I think sometimes bullet points can be a little bit easier to pick up on those things a little bit faster. But if actually having the whole thing there works for you, that's fine too, just as a quick reference. But exactly, we do not want to be reading it word for word. Excellent. So another thing that they found in this study was how confident the person was when they were talking. And this is crucial. Now, I think a lot of us are sometimes worried about coming across as overly confident. We want— we don't want to come across as cocky, and that, that can actually send the wrong message. But companies really want to hire people who are confident. Why? Because think about any product or service you've ever purchased. If that product or service was like, well, it might not work right, frankly. And I don't know if it's actually going to solve your problem. And I kind of, you know, it's kind of helped people in other situations, but not really in your situation. And you're thinking, okay, I'm probably not going to buy this service. I'm probably not going to buy this product. You have to remember that a job interview is not necessarily hearing about you and your story and all that. It is about a company looking to buy a service and it is your skill set. And so that is why it's so important to be confident because they want to buy something that they feel is going to work. And so if you're saying, if you're confident in, yes, I can do this, here's how I've done it in the past. Here's the ways that I feel like I'm actually a really great fit for this role. You're doing a lot of the mental work that they're trying to do is connecting the dots. And so that actually really makes you likable because it, it makes their mental processes a lot easier. And people are attracted to more confident people. And I don't mean attracted in, in the romantic sense, but in just a— there's a magnetism, there's an eagerness to want to work with someone who seems like they are going to do good work. Right? Yes. Oh my gosh, it's Larry. Madeline's job shopping program has been super helpful and includes practice interviews. Speaking answers out loud before the interview builds confidence for me. Also, Larry, didn't you just get a job offer today? Did I hear that right? Huge shout out to you, Larry. I mean, I hope I I didn't jump the gun here in congratulating you. But yes, you've been absolutely amazing in the program. You've been going all out, following every step of the way, and asking amazing questions. Larry's in my— exactly, he's in my job shopping program, Standout Job Search. So yes, shout out to you. So What if you can't think of a reason you want the job other than you need it and you feel you can do it well? This is where I sometimes struggle with authenticity and confidence. Christina, yes, this is super important. So the 3rd thing on the list that they were finding in this study that is perfectly aligned with what you just said, Christina, so thank you. Is how determined that person appears. I cannot emphasize enough how important this third one is for you in your job interviews, and Christina, this question is perfect for that reason. They there's an element of magnetism you will have if you are 100% on board. You're saying, or not 100% on board, but you are. You've thought through this. You've thought through what you want in your next opportunity. You understand what they do as a company. You understand what they're asking for in a role, and you understand how your your skills match up perfectly, and you feel very focused on this is the right next step for you, and you're able to articulate that. That is extremely likable. Why? Because anyone who's ever hired, and let me know in the comments if you have experienced this when you're hiring. You probably don't really enjoy hiring that much. You probably want to get back to the job that you're actually measured for, and it takes so much energy, so much time. You also probably feel awkward rejecting people, and so you want whoever you hire to stay in that job. You don't want to have to retrain a bunch of people every few months, every year or so, and so you want this person to feel confident. So that makes you very likable of, hey, yes. I know I want this opportunity for these reasons, and I like your company for these reasons. And they go, wow, this person is intrinsically motivated. We don't have to make sure this person stays longer than 3 months. And instead of leaving for an opportunity that is, you know, closer fit to what they're looking for. And, and so what Christina is saying is, if you don't really have a reason other than you need it and you feel you can do it. Really, Christina, I do this with my clients a lot, is I help them to reframe the way they're saying things. A lot of times they'll say the reasons that they left their previous role are quite negative. And I say, well, what if you say it this way? Or they'll say, you know, I was just listening to one of my clients. They just did an interview and I was listening to the recording of it. And he was mentioning that his most recent role is essentially him doing consulting, right? Where he just has his own clients. And he kind of says something like, yeah, I got a few gigs right now. And it's just side work until I land my next thing or something like that. And I was like, hey, that all sounds diminishing. What if you say, so currently, you know, once I left that previous company, I was really fortunate to have quite a few people I've worked with in the past come inbound and ask for my help. And so I ended up serendipitously spinning up a consulting firm just, just to address these, these inquiries. And that's been really rewarding. But I'm really excited to get back into a team environment. Right. Something like that. Now, instead of saying, yeah, I got a couple of gigs. You know, I got some gigs, whatever. We need to, we need to shift that. And so, yes, you do need to reframe. And it would be interesting if, like, if I, if I was coaching you, I'd specifically understand your situation. I'd give you the exact verbiage. But your answer cannot be, well, I took this role because the pay is all right or because you all are remote and I'm really looking for a remote role. You have to dig deeper. You have to do more research. And if not, and if it doesn't feel aligned, then you kind of have to dig deep and find something that you could connect with, or maybe potentially look at shifting your path. So, ah, yay! So Larry is saying that he's still reviewing his job offer. Good for you. Lori's saying congrats. Rick's saying woohoo! I'm so I'm so glad to hear that. Yes. And yeah, Larry, let me know if you, if you need any help with the negotiation or anything. I'm very, very excited. Let's get you to the finish line. All right. So, what should I do differently when I leave the interview feeling confident, the rapport was great, but I never got a callback? So essentially, Fran, what I do is I, first of all, like when I'm trying to audit what happened in an interview, I found that a lot of times the person who is the candidate has often inaccurate guesses of what went wrong, which is extremely normal because you're sitting in the bottle and you can't read the label. You are too close to your own experience to know what went wrong. So there's essentially several, like I would say 3 major approaches. So the the first is to listen to the recording of that interview, and that's usually with 95% certainty. I can usually analyze what is exactly happened and give you peace of mind and say, okay, well this is what happened. And so any of you who are thinking about joining my coaching program and whatnot, where we like— we've now added where we do the job search for you, we apply to jobs for you, all that. We optimize everything for you. Um, start recording your interviews now so that when you join the program, I can listen to them in hindsight and be like, okay, let's get this going. Okay, so anyways, um, so that's the first piece. Now, if you don't have it recorded The second thing is going through the interview ladder. So that's an, uh, that's an analysis I put my clients through where they answer a bunch of questions. And there's 7 rungs to an interview ladder. And there's certain areas that we all have weaknesses in and that we need to increase, um, depending on like what are, what are we struggling with in the interview. And so based on that, okay, you're low in vision, but you're high in you know, likability or whatnot, right? So let's, let's work on the things that you're, you're lower in, that kind of stuff. And then the third approach could be, um, doing like more mock interviews and then getting feedback on those mock interviews, uh, as well as getting feedback on, okay, just walk me through the interview. What did you say? How was it? How did you explain things? And all of that. Um, so yes, I, I think, I think that's super important. Oh, there's lots more. Uh, uh, congratulations in the chat. I love to see it. Um, okay, so job interviews are so hard nowadays, says Nancy. I've gone through extensive interviews doing assessments to only get the same thing at the end. We've gone with another candidate. Yes, Nancy, this is the number one struggle that the people who follow me have. Put same in the chat if you have had these times where you have gone through entire interview processes and gotten to the end and they say no. This is extremely demoralizing, and it's, it's so promising that you're getting this far, but it's actually harder to get the rejection after you've done a bunch of interviews because you've spent so much time preparing. You have, uh, you've invested all this time, you've invested all this, this research. You have also imagined your future in this direction. So emotionally, it's extremely damaging. And so I completely understand. So many people in the chat are also saying same. This exactly, this is, this is extremely common. I'll actually pop y'all up on the screen here. Um, So yes, this, this is super common, and, um, it's because you're going for roles where you have to win by inches, not by feet or meters. And that's typically why I see a lot of people who will kind of transition from following my YouTube videos to actually getting individualized coaching, because at a certain point, I think the videos are so, so helpful in getting people from really maybe like not getting through early rounds or just not doing well to consistently doing pretty well in interviews, which has been so amazing to see. But at a certain point, there's the fine-tuning that needs to happen. There's the, you know, there's little things that we tend to drop into interviews that can mess us up. I think about my client. She just accepted an offer from a major credit card company. And she, she had started the program where she wasn't getting sourced on LinkedIn at all. Within a couple weeks in the program, she was getting sourced by 8 to 10+ recruiters a week. Then she started getting into interviews and got into final round interviews. I think I think, like, well, she got into final round interviews twice, and then maybe she got a little bit farther third time, which was amazing because before I started coaching her, she never got past the first, maybe second round. So she started getting final rounds, and, and after, like, her second final round rejection, she said, should I just give up? Should I— am I doing everything wrong? Should I throw away my job search? And I said, absolutely do not. I said, this is Extremely promising. All signs are saying you're going to get an offer very soon. But it was all about these very incremental fine-tuning aspects. When I first started working with her, it was large changes. Okay, you know, do this, do that, all that kind of stuff. But then within 2 weeks of those massive like final round interview rejections that demoralized her, she had— she got the offer and then she had one other offer that was pending, um, that she ended up declining for this other one. So I just want you to know that it is, it's absolutely possible for you and you can make it happen. There are just like smaller, smaller tweaks that very much dependent on you, you can make it happen. So I've had 5 to 6 interviews in the last 3 months and zero offers. I totally agree. Yes, yes, this is so, so So common, and I'm so sorry. How do you show strong confidence in your experience without crossing the line into sounding like you're overselling yourself? Ooh, good one. Especially when you're talking about why you're strong fit for the role. Okay. So here, here's the thing is something. First of all, they do want to hear what you've done. Why it was effective, all of that—that is important information. So you're right; we do need to say those things. It you first of all cut out every single adjective. Okay, so that's the first thing you do. You don't say, and I was an excellent leader, or I was I was very creative in that project, or I had a lot of innovative ideas. All of those things they can deduce. Okay, so instead of saying I was very creative, you might say, well, the challenge we were having was X, and what other people suggested were these things. But I thought, what if we do something differently? Because I noticed these 3 data points were pointing to this, so I suggest an alternate route, which was this, and that ended up getting you know, 20% more results. That is— that's showing creative problem solving. It's implying it. Um, I don't need to say I'm seasoned. I don't need to say I'm experienced. You just talk about the experience. So that's the first thing is you sound a lot less like you're selling yourself if you're keeping things a bit more factual, but always making sure that the facts you're saying show your character and aren't simply listing tasks. Okay. So that's the first thing. It is important to say I a lot in the interview. Don't— a lot of us say we too often, and then the company thinks, well, what are— who are we— whose services are we getting? Are we getting your team's? Are we getting yours? What have you done? But the other side is I've had— I think about my client Matt. He's come on one of these lives before and shared his story. He's a sales leader. And what he said, that he felt interviews were too salesy. And so what I did is I coached him through how to feel like he was a coworker on these interviews. So instead of going, well, you should hire me because I've got all this great education, I've got all this great, you know, work experience, and that makes me better than everyone else. Instead of that, he more went on to the call of, Well, I've been studying your business and studying your sales process and understanding this and like looking at your competitors and how have you been thinking through this? And let me ask you this. And when you— when I saw this on the job description, how are you thinking of working through this? Offer, offer, offer just start dropping from this guy, right? And I think he ended up making upwards of $80,000 more in his next offer because he came in with that energy instead of being like, I'm gonna sell you. So that's hugely important. What if the interviewer is not that likable? I feed off of people's energy and it makes it hard to build rapport and turn the interview into a conversation. Christina, yes, having an unlikable interviewer is unfortunately a common occurrence and we have to push through that low energy. So first of all, what you have to do is you have to assume they like you. You assume that they think you're great. They— you assume that they want you to win. Now this comes with a little bit of lying to yourself, okay? And but you make different decisions when you think someone likes you. You might ask them more questions. You might, uh, you know, uh, get, get more excited when you're talking to them. Now, of course, you don't want to overstate your energy. You don't want to get a little bit— you don't want to get too like worked up in a way that they're going to say, oh, this person's too high energy. So you do want to match their energy a bit, but then also take it up 10%. I had an interview where unknowingly they use a third-party company called Fathom to record transcribe the interview. I did not know until after. and I got an email, the transcript Zoom recording is fine, but this is— I did not agree to. Got it. Yeah, I, I do think that, that— I like that they sent it to you though. At least you now have a record. But yes, I, I could see how, um, that, that wouldn't feel— that wouldn't feel great. So I'm guessing this is more of like an ageism-related question. So a lot of A lot of my clients are above the age of 50 and have fabulous success in the job market. One of the best things about having— being a bit more of an experienced professional is that there's so much more what I call glory to work with. So you have— there's so many different things in your past that you can spotlight to make yourself a more compelling candidate than someone with little experience. So There's a lot of great things there. Now, as far as your hair color, I have never told a client or even thought in my head they should really be dyeing their hair. That has never, that has never gone through my mind. Um, I, I think that there's— if, if you're not landing job offers, I don't think that's the issue. I would say a lot of my clients who feel like ageism is what's holding them back, it is a lot of things that either are the same things that all of my other clients are dealing with and it doesn't have to do with age. Or if it does have to do with age, I coach them through an energy shift. So the way you talk, what you choose to talk about, and the energy you have in the interview, that can transform it. A lot more than, say, your hair color. All right. At my last company, I did about 50 interviews. I looked at it as hiring my new coworker. Yes, absolutely. And so you— this is a huge component of likability, is that if the person comes away from the interview feeling like, wow, That felt like a meeting with a coworker. That felt natural. That felt like they, they are tapped into what we're doing and ask good questions. All that, that dramatically increases the likelihood that you will get the offer. So that is absolutely huge. Lisa says, I just lost what seemed like the perfect role because I got too nerdy and excited in the interview. How can you appear more senior when you're more quirky, creative? Lisa, so I'm curious if you can also, uh, also respond to this potentially in the chat. I know we have a delay, so just so you guys know, I'm always at least 10 seconds ahead of you in case you're ever like, what's happening? And like, people are responding to her at different times and all this kind of stuff. It's because we're all on different timelines. Depending on our connection, all that kind of stuff. People always saying things like you planted someone in the chat, or this isn't live, or something like that. People people get at me. So anyways, put this in the chat, Lisa. Is what do you know this for a fact? Is this the reason you you did you get any sort of feedback? I want I'm very curious. So let me know in the chat. I this absolutely happens. I remember there was one candidate. Who, who she came on the call and she was so excited about the work we were doing and the role and everything. And she wouldn't stop bringing every answer back to her excitement and her, this, this energy. And it was so distracting at a certain point to where we couldn't get past the surface level. So this has absolutely happened before. But It is tough to say, obviously, from out— from without having full context or without hearing from exactly what happened in your situation. Um, but I'm curious if this is a, uh, if this is a hunch you have, or if you got that feedback of, hey, you know, you, you got— you, you kind of threw us off with your energy. It was a little much. Um, I'm curious. Um, So let me know in the chat, Lisa, and I'll get back to you once— oh, here we go. Here we go, Lisa. I don't know it for a fact, but I sensed I overwhelmed the interviewer. She sent me a personal rejection email saying it was an easy decision and to check back for future roles. Okay, so I will, I will answer your question. And, and then also, know, give some, give some other thoughts. So you said that you feel like you got too nerdy and excited in the interview. Um, I mean, overall, showing interest and enthusiasm is extremely positive, so I don't want to coach that out of you. Um, I'd be interested to hear exactly kind of what you said in particular, but you're right, there's a lack of professionalism at a certain point where it almost feels like you're beneath them because you're like almost like It's it can be sycophantic at a certain point. So you do want to show interest without necessarily some sort of I don't know like like they're above you like you're praising them. And a lot of your interest comes out of the the nature of showing how much you've you've researched them, showing how much you understand about the industry. And taking a sincere interest versus saying, oh my gosh, this would be so interesting. I really enjoy doing this. I can't wait to do that. I would love to work with you. Should we work together? Should we start now? Right? That comes across the wrong way. But instead of saying, well, before this interview, I actually took some time to understand your competitors and what you all have been doing. And here's why I think what you all are doing is actually way stronger and how I feel I could contribute. Right? That actually shows a lot of passion in a way that It doesn't lower your position. All right. I noticed one of the things I struggle with is being able to formulate good questions to showcase my interest in the job outside of what's already spoken, even though I strongly feel that I'm good at it. Okay. So yeah, this, this kind of goes along with what exactly what I was just saying of if you do want to have those great questions. And so I I say that with great questions, you typically want to focus on 4 areas. You want to focus on people. So who would I work with? Who does this? All this kind of stuff. There's processes. You know, what's the process for this? How does it get done? Does the process need to be built? Then there's what's the current state? So how are you currently doing this? What is— who's currently in this role? What is— how is the team currently built out? And then the future of like, what do you want to happen in the future? How would this look in 90 days? How would this look in a year? Okay. So if you are oscillating between those 4 sections, that can often lead to a very robust conversation as well as tools as well. Tools is good to ask about as well. What are you currently using? Tools and processes can kind of be in the same one. Every time I enter an interview with peers, they literally read my resume and start asking questions about my background. How can we make this more of a conversation? Um, yes, so I would say it's, you know, at a certain point you do just want to answer their questions. I don't want you to force questions into it. Um, it really— you have to start thinking through of if you've really thought through this this role pretty thoroughly, as well as research them and who they are, it might come across naturally. You might say things like, and I did this, which I know is, is similar to what you are working on now, or might be similar to something you did your previous role. And I typically do things this way. Is that how you all do it? Right? Like, you might even just integrate some of those questions like that, not in a, in a way that feels forced, but in a way that Um, that is, is helpful to kind of keep the conversation moving in, in a way that, that feels authentic. Um, cool. All right. We, yes, we are multi-streaming currently across LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok. So I just wanna say howdy across all the different platforms. It's so good to see all of you here. And yes, let's see. I'll try to put in the chat. I'm seeing some questions about, um, coaching. So yes, I have a coaching program that can help you to land offers very quickly. I will say one of the things that people have been really liking about it lately is that we essentially handle the process for you. So we will make sure everything about your process is optimized. Your LinkedIn is attracting recruiters. Your resume is firing on all cylinders. We apply to jobs for you. We help you with your networking strategy, and then we prep you for your interviews. So if you are really someone who's tired of doing all the reps yourself, not knowing if what you're doing is working, and just wanting someone to take that over and someone who's, who's damn good at this and has data points across thousands of different job seekers in this very job market, I will go ahead and link this here. Job search program. See if there's open spots on our calendar. I did not check before this session. Sometimes we run out of spots pretty quickly. So if that's the case, then we can get you on a waitlist. All right. Let's see. Is it too presumptuous to change your Zoom Teams background to the brand of the company? So here's the thing. I like this idea. I think it's nice. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do this situation, but I like the way you're thinking. Such as one thing I often recommend my clients do is that if they are doing, say, a presentation, this is a very normal part of an interview process where maybe in the final round you have to build some sort of deck and do a presentation. I recommend for those presentations, when you're choosing the font, the colors, all that, it should match the company's branding. It kind of subconsciously sends this message that you're already one of them. So I love that you're mind goes to this. I would say it— I think presumptuous is kind of the best word. It feels maybe a little bit presumptuous, maybe a little bit, uh, a little bit, uh, rushed to intimacy there. But I like the way you're thinking. You're thinking in ways that just give you a little bit extra nudge. Um, and, uh, so while I personally wouldn't do it, I think it's— I think it's, uh, your, your head's in the right place. What is— what do you think is the best way to figure out if a recruiter is real on LinkedIn? It seems like there are a lot of scammers. Oh, and this job— oh, this job needs— this job needs— requires this document. Let me send you this to the person to do the document. Then that document costs hundreds of dollars to get an interview where there is not an actual person on Teams, just the picture of the face. Yes. So 100%. If anyone ever responds to your resume and says, hey, there's actually some adjustments that I would make, like I actually know someone who can make those changes for you, and then you have to pay them to make those changes, that is 100% of the time a scam. There is not a single exception when that is not a scam. Okay. Anytime also when you're emailed or texted about a role and they're not super specific about the role title, they'll say something like, hey, we saw your experience. We have some roles that we think would be a really good fit for you. Let me know when you can talk. That's, that's a scam. Um, if they're emailing you from a Gmail email address and not an actual company email address, it doesn't necessarily have to be like this of the company they're recruiting for because, um, because third-party recruiters are very common. Um, but, uh, but yeah, I would say that focusing on, uh, checking that because I, I just had a client she sent me, she was like, oh, I just got this recruiter And what they had done is the email of the recruiter. So you know how when you get an email, there's the person's name and then there's the email address next to it. The part that was their name was an email address from a Korn Ferry. Korn Ferry, which is an executive recruiting firm. It was a Korn Ferry email address that was the name, and then the email address was a Gmail. That is clearly they're trying to spoof the person into thinking that this is a Korn Ferry recruiter when really it's just a Gmail email address. So stuff like that we have to look out for. Lisa says, my idea kept branching out into new ideas. I didn't let it— let anything land. Thank you for your response, much appreciated. Yeah, I mean, that, that sounds like you just need interview training. I mean, I— and, and it sounds like you have a ton of potential. Like, the fact that you have lots of new ideas is wonderful. Um, uh, rambling is one of the top reasons, especially more experienced Leaders get rejected, so it all everything you're going through is completely normal. It it just takes practice and training to improve. So that's the good news is that that there is absolutely hope, and and not only is there hope, but there's it sounds like there's a lot of potential there. Um, all right. Um, okay, okay. So Kara says, and this is I think this is in response. Response to I think this is in response to the is it presumptuous to have the Zoom background? Kara says if I were conducting an interview, this would not be something I'd like to see from a candidate. It's a cute idea, but it could come across as desperate. Okay, Kara and I are aligned. Thank you. Thank you for for sharing that. When doing a deeper dive on a company, I found some. serious headwinds from competitors and some safety violations. Should I withdraw? It's really up to you. I mean, in the end, I think it's good to get offers and then make the decision once you get the offer. And I know that that comes at the cost of time, right? That's— time is our most precious resource. So I understand if you want to pull out for the sake of time. I think like what I typically coach my clients through is we try to collect as many offers as possible. And then use those offers to get the other companies they're interviewing for, which are sometimes their more desired companies, to get them offers. Uh, offers beget offers. Even if it's like not an offer that you're super excited about, that can still spin out other offers. So, um, it gets you on a winning streak. It gets that company— other companies more attracted to you. It speeds up their process, all that. So, um, but yes, if you evaluate the opportunity and it doesn't seem as good as you would hoped, you can do that. I also recommend if you're really on the fence thinking, oh, maybe this is not going to be a great opportunity, talk to the people who have formally worked at that company. Okay, emphasis on formally, uh, former— formerly, formerly. So they've left that company. Um, they'll give you the most unfiltered, uh, information. I was recently advised that if I want to switch out of my specific role, event marketing, and industry, legal tech. I should decide one or the other to switch. What do you think? So Jacqueline, the more you change your career or you pivot your career, the harder it will be, 100%. So yes, if you are switching your role, that's already challenging. If you're switching your role and industry, that will be even more challenging. So You really pick your hard, okay? So just, you know, expect that it will take more effort, it will take more time. Um, so it's, it's not impossible. I've, I've had clients make incredible career changes, um, that, that did include both industry and role, but they also had me behind the scenes helping them with everything. So it is Uh, and even that, it can be tough. Um, do interviewers have the mindset of next like a salesman or a talent show judge? No. Um, because interviewers want to stop interviewing. They're not just like, next, let's go to the next person, because they're thinking, I don't want there to be a next person. I want to get back to my job. My job is not interviewing. My job is And even if your job is interviewing, if you're a recruiter, closing the role as soon as possible gives you less work. You want to close it. So everyone's motivated to hire quickly, except for the fact that they don't want to hire the wrong person. If you hire too fast, you hire the wrong person, then you pay for it on the other end with that person being a troublesome employee. So no, they're actually rooting for you. They want you to Uh, they want you to win. Yes, right. If they mean if they're not impressed, the interview just can't wait to say next. Um, though, I mean, in, in a certain way, like, if, if they, if they truly don't like you, yes, there is an element of, of sometimes they'll make up their mind fairly early in the interview. Um, and that can be demoralizing. Um, but just know that you— that doesn't— I don't want you to get that in your head and think, well, this is This is a foregone conclusion. You can still make it happen, and people who seem like they don't like you sometimes behind the scenes will say, "Well, you know, Shafiq was the best person that we talked to today or whatnot," and you'll go, "What? I can't believe can't believe they're rooting for me." Thank you for addressing the recruiter scam. I started to fall for one and asked for a video chat. They disappeared. Go figure. Yep. Ain't that the truth. I've heard that we can practice interviewing with AI as if you were really talking to an interviewer. I don't know the specifics. Do you have any suggestions? So yes, there are, there are tools like that. Uh, in my program I have built one where it's not necessarily where you're talking to the AI and there's like not some like AI person there, but my tool generates specific questions based on your situation. So based on the type of interview you're going into or, or training to go into, um, the role that you're, you're interviewing for, the type of company, all that. And it generates questions one by one and you answer them and it gives feedback. But most of all, I like to have my clients record that and then I listen to it. So yes, while the tool also gives them a report card and it, it has a dashboard where it's tracking their filler words and their body language and the how compelling their answers are. And like, it tracks them on all those metrics and gives them a report. I also too like to actually give feedback as well. What are your thoughts about using a little humor during the interview? So I think that humor is wonderful. I think it's great to get a chuckle. It's great to be a bit lighthearted. You would do that in when you're a coworker. Don't do sarcasm. No sarcasm. That is, it falls flat. It's confusing. It can be misinterpreted. And it's also, it's, it's the least, it's kind of like the lowest form of comedy, of joking, right? All you have to just say is The opposite of what you mean. And oh, now, now it's sarcasm, right? So, so it's just not a great, uh, it's not a great look. But otherwise, yes, I think if it's playful, and I think if it's neutral, such as there's no, there's no undertones of someone's, someone's at fault, or like you're taking a jab at someone, you're not taking a jab at yourself, you're not taking a jab at your previous employers or people. Um, it's just all in jest, then that could be good. I have been in, in IT application support and want to transition into admin assistant. Is it a possible pivot? That sounds very possible. I've had clients do very similar pivots, maybe exactly that exact one, Janet. Um, yeah, there's a lot of transferable skills. What we put our clients through is We'll typically look at their skill set and we can give them real realistic idea of if we feel like they could be a good fit, as well as we put them through the Glory Formula, which helps them to only talk about the things to their past that is relevant to this next role. So with IT application support, there's gonna be a lot of things you stop talking about that are huge parts of your current role. Um, but it's going to make all the difference. So yes, I do think that's very possible. I don't think that Glassdoor is reliable for job company reviews. Thoughts? I've been at companies who have encouraged us to write good stuff almost monthly. Uh, and there's— oh, that's a relief. Thanks, Madeline. Uh, my pleasure. So, uh, I I think you're right. That's— I actually see typically the opposite is Glassdoor is often a place where it's only the people who are disgruntled post there. And then maybe like a few people who are, you know, trying to help out the company to post something nice. I mean, and it can be definitely authentic, but Yes, I would say that Glassdoor should just be one data point. You shouldn't make decisions based on if you're going to accept an offer or if you're going to take an interview based purely on Glassdoor, because exactly, it's, it's tough to say if that's the right picture. It's just not a representative. It's not representative. But I still think that it's worth taking a look at. I was laid off and I applied to open recs at my last company but was rejected. In the layoff, they said I was not blocked from internal positions. Should I assume I'm blacklisted? So the interesting thing about this question is I'm curious to know if you worked at that company previously, why is this an application and not a conversation? So if you already, and this is important for all of us, if you already know people at a company, you don't have to be shelling out applications. You just talk to the people at the company, say, hey, can I, you know, do I, am I a good fit for this job? Would it be good? You know, can you, can you flag my application? Should I apply? What's the best place to, way to, you know, uh, be potentially considered for this role? So I would, I would make it more of a conversation. Um, I wouldn't assume you're blacklisted. I think it's— it would be a little weird if I had a coworker who, who left and then they just started applying and they just didn't even think to— if they had all these relationships with the company, like, why aren't you talking to us? Like, did you accidentally apply? What's happening, right? So to have a conversation. I hate small talk and I know that, that the beginning of the interview sets the tone. Any suggestions? Yes. So I would say the first question you're often asked is, how are you? Or how was your weekend? Some form of that. Choose something that is not good, great, fine, right? Choose something. So first of all, I like to choose— always make it positive. And I like to choose a word that's a little bit richer. So maybe something like, oh, it was wonderful, right? Just whatever, whatever feels authentic. But Wonderful, right? And so that's, that's nice. You could bring positive energy and then give them something. And this, this piece here is how you kind of just snowball it potentially into a conversation. Sometimes it ends up being a dead end, other times it doesn't. So you can say something like, oh, it's wonderful. Um, I, uh, I just, I heard a bunch of thunder this morning and I love thunder. Something like that. That actually happened this morning. Um, but it's just It's it's like it's a stupid piece of information. You guys didn't need to know that, but maybe you might say, "Oh nice! Oh well, where are you located?" Oh yeah, it rains a lot there. Oh yeah, I love. Oh yep, yeah. You know, I used to like thunder, but now I have a dog and and my dog goes crazy. Right? It just starts a conversation, just giving them something. Now, of course, if you say that and then nothing else happens after that, don't feel bad. Don't feel like oh that was my that was my attempt at small talk and it completely failed. No, not everyone always. takes the bait. You just need to give them something to hold on to. I have a job interview on Friday. Hey, congratulations. Um, but the recruiter sent me online forms to do before the interview and it is not motivating at all. And, and she said if I'm hired, I will have, have work courses to do. Yeah. Well, I think that the thing is, is that I think people often wait for motivation, but action comes first. So sometimes you need to just start doing the thing and not wait for motivation. So there's things in life that we have to do. Um, I've been unfortunately getting a lot of these types of messages a lot more in the past few years. Um, there's kind of like this like unwillingness to, to do things that are, are in my career like fairly normal. Now you don't— I don't necessarily have to always fill out online forms before an interview. I do think that that's quite annoying. Um, but like doing courses when you get hired I mean, I, I think that we, we, we should expect being trained, and I think that that's actually admirable that they are training you, um, and that might even advance your skill set. So I think, uh, instead of maybe viewing it all as, oh, this is so annoying, so annoying, I think maybe even reevaluate your career path. And if you're, if you're going to kind of do things begrudgingly, maybe you're in the wrong path, or maybe uh, just kind of shift your perspective potentially. Um, but yeah, I understand filling out paperwork is, is not the best, I guess. I don't know. I grew up in like the girl boss generation where you just put your head down, you get, you get shit done, right? So I guess I don't have a ton of empathy for this. Um, but I, I, you know, to each his own. Um, okay, so, uh, how do you minimize rambling when you are in an interview? So I would say, uh, the, the first thing you need to do is a lot of us answer questions for the first time out loud in the interview, and that naturally leads to rambling. Because if I was to ask you a question right now of, you know, tell me about your job 3 jobs ago, You tell me it. And what if I asked you then, okay, thank you for telling me that. Now I want you to tell me about that job 3 jobs ago again. Tell me about it again. I bet you the second time it would be more concise. And I bet you if I asked you about it a third time, that answer would be even more polished. And it's not because you're, you're trying to make it more polished or anything like that. It's just naturally the more reps you get in of verbally saying it out loud without referencing notes, the better you get. And so thinking through a lot of these ideas and also practicing, that's why I really emphasize practicing and giving feedback so much in my coaching program. And that can make a huge difference. It's also really important to use structured thinking. This is something I train my clients on a lot is, and you probably even notice it in this session, I use a lot of structured thinking. I'll say, well, there's 3 things you need to focus on if that's the case. 1, 2, and 3. And that helps to ground the listener. It helps ground me as a speaker. So, and there's a lot of other strategies as well, um, but, but those, those can, can be really helpful. All right, um, I have an interview with a comp— a government agency. Good job. Um, and currently part of the state government who funds the agency. How do I answer the question on why I want to leave, uh, to want to leave to government job? Okay, so you're part of the state government who funds this agency. Um, got it. So I would really focus— I would first of all say how much you like your job, like your current job. I would acknowledge it. I really like what I'm doing. But as I've gotten to know more of how you all do and your side of it, I thought what an amazing growth experience it would be to work on that side as well and do X, Y, and Z, right? So I would, I would confirm what's really great about what's working now and talk about the things that are pulling you instead of being like, well, I don't really like what I'm doing now. And it's a push, push, push. It's like, get me away, get me away. That's a low performer answer. All right, so. All right, I had an interview today. Goody, but wasn't really that enthusiastic about the commute. Would be six hours daily. Oh my gosh! Still. I was invited to the interview at one point, and I was completely transparent. I didn't want this to this. I did not see this particular job that I was interviewing for work. I asked them if I could remain in their job pool rotation. How would you tactically say this to them? Okay, I asked them. So you asked them. Okay, good. So are you saying, um, so you're saying that you— I asked if I could remain. So how would you tactically say this to them? So are you saying that you did say it? Okay, so I'll assume that maybe you didn't say that last line there where you said you actually asked if you could stay in the rotation. Um, so yeah, I would say, I would say the commute is, is unrealistic for me. Um, but I mean, I don't know if they have— I would maybe talk to them about remote roles, or if you have some sort of timeline of when you might commute, or if they might open other offices. So you could have that active conversation. I think once you know that you want to reject an opportunity, it really kind of removes any facade, and you're able to just have a real conversation about what you're looking for. But what I love about this is is that you are— you're seeing it as potentially like continuing the conversation down the road, that this is not a shut door for you or for them. And I love that. Yes, Belle asks me, could you share the book research you mentioned about being likable? Yes, that research that I referenced was from the book Culture Code. Culture Code. Um, so, um, yes, I did ask them. They didn't look happy. I know, I know. Um, well, thanks so much everyone for coming on today. Uh, I do want to remind you that on my website madelinemann.com/free-resources, I just have a lot of free resources at this point. I've kind of been building a bunch of free resources as I do different videos and all that kind of stuff. Um, so, uh, you know, if from on there you have, uh, a resume free resume workshop, you have the best questions to ask in an interview. You have follow-up email templates. You have the phone interview cheat sheet so that every interview, phone interview, you have that there. You have a LinkedIn profile checklist to optimize your profile. It's just a bunch of stuff there. It's not even every— it's not even all of my free resources. I'm actually a little bit behind in even adding even more there. But there's something for everyone there. So make sure you, you grab that. And if I could get some Wi-Fi high fives in the chat, it's always a pleasure to be here live with you. I am going to actually take this session in person next week. So if you are in New York City or in the New York surrounding area, I would love to invite you to Career Lab. So I will be doing essentially this, but even more in-depth, but where I'm actually interacting with you in person. Um, I, I'm being flown in by LinkedIn, um, and I'm doing their conference there, their Talent Connect conference. And I thought, while I'm there, why don't I give back? Um, so I rented a space. I am opening up tickets to my audience for 100% free. Um, so this is something really special I'm doing. Um, I don't know that I could really afford to do, uh, that many free in-person sessions. But fortunately, because LinkedIn is flying me out there, I did decide to allocate some of that as something, as a way to give back. And so thank you so much for coming. And hopefully you can come to that session. I think if you just Google or if you go like Career Lab NYC, that, that event is online as well as it's on my, all my socials. I posted about it today. And so I hope to meet you there. Oh yes. Rick says, another great session. Really appreciate the insights. Oh my gosh, my pleasure. Thanks, Lori. Thanks, Jenny. Thanks, Barfington. Thanks, Christine, Shafiq, Helium28. Good to see you all. All right. Hopefully I see you in New York City and I'll send you away with a Wi-Fi high five.