What to Do When You Mess Up in a Job Interview

Well, hello! It is so good to be here. I'm Madeline Mann. Go ahead and say hi in the chat. Say where you are joining us from. And today we are talking about what to do when you mess up in the interview, which when I put out this topic, I got lots of emails and comments saying, "Oh my gosh, this happens to me all the time," and it happens to the best of us, right? It happens. It's so normal to in an interview. To stumble over your words or to say something you didn't mean, or to be answering a question and realize I'm going in the wrong direction, or I don't feel so confident about this, or to be ruminating after the interview. Tell me if this has ever happened to you where you're ruminating after the interview thinking, oh man, had I had a moment to think, I would have actually answered it this way and that would have sounded so good. And I actually had the answer in my head. Why didn't I come up with it in the moment? It is so tough. So today we're going to talk about how to overcome that, how to overcome that in the interview, after the interview, all of that. And as always, these sessions are Q&As. So I'm here to answer your questions live. So I'm always happy to be engaging with you in real time. That's the main part of this session that I really love, I really enjoy. So David said ruminate. No, I never do that. Uh, welcome David, welcome Barbara, uh, Stellar Sky, Typing Drama, um, and we also have Karen here. Welcome, welcome. It's so, it's so good to have you here today. So let's talk about it, shall we? And like I said, keep saying hi in the chat and keep Putting your questions in the chat, we are running for an hour today. So a common thing that my clients say is they'll say something like, "Well, the reason I messed up on that question is I didn't really understand what they were asking." And one of the things I do with my clients is that I they'll record their interviews and I'll listen to them and give them feedback on it. And I'll say, "Well, yes, you didn't you understand what they were asking, but I didn't hear you ask." the interviewer for clarification. And there's this mentality that an interview is like an exam where, you know, if you get an exam, a test, you're kind of expected to just take the questions at face value and you have to answer them on the spot, no back and forth or anything like that. But that's not what a job interview is. A job interview is more of a conversation. If you were talking to a coworker and they asked you a question that you weren't quite sure about, wouldn't you say, oh, what do you mean by that? Or are you asking about this? I guess I'm not sure exactly what you mean. I'm not familiar with that term. Um, I actually remember though, I do remember working with a coworker. I had just started the job probably a week before. I was a bit intimidated. This is also early in my career and I had to create an engagement survey. And one of the leaders had already created it. And once I kind of learned his personality, I realized he really was not the right person to be creating a survey. And he put one of the— as one of the survey questions for employee engagement is like, what is your kryptonite? And I thought, oh, maybe this is a term that people in the company use. This is just like— it's like internal jargon that they use. Everyone knows what kryptonite is. I mean, of course, I know what kryptonite is in relation to Superman. Stuff like that. But, but in a work setting, on a survey, what does that mean? And so we send out the survey, of course, with other questions as well. And we get back the result. People are asking, what is this kryptonite question? And I felt so dumb because my name was on this survey. But my boss had put this kryptonite question. And I was like, why didn't I ask? Why didn't I ask? Hey, you know, in my, in my gut, I was thinking, this doesn't make any sense to me as, as someone reading this from the outside. What is your kryptonite? I don't, I don't know what you mean by that. So anyways, I feel like sometimes we're like that in job interviews where someone will say something like, so, you know, what's your kryptonite? You want to clarify, what do you, what are you asking? Are you asking for what is my greatest weakness, or are you asking for— because there was another question I was asking about their strengths and weaknesses, so like the kryptonite was then also something different. Anyways, It was very confusing, but people use weird jargon like that, and he had no idea. He had no idea that— and he does— he did this a lot in his, his role where he would say things that are very confusing. But that's also a lot of people. A lot of people are kind of confusing in interviews. Interviewers do not think that hard about the questions they're asking and the words they use. And so we need to actually probe deeper in order to understand what they're asking. All right, we have more people coming in. Hi, Tyler. Hi, Marcus. Um, um, Daoud, Mirza. Hello, Diane, Priya, Tyler. Good to see you. Okay, um, amazing. So I also think another strategy is important to interrupt yourself When you're talking to check in. I don't know if you've ever felt this way in an interview, but I've definitely done this where I'm going down a path with my answer and there's this voice in my head saying, you've been talking for a long time. I don't know if they— this is actually what they wanted to hear about. I'm now starting to doubt. They're not nodding at all. I feel like I'm going down the wrong way. And so what you can do in that moment is you can say, I want to pause my answer for a second. I am going to talk a little bit more about this, this, and this. Do you want me to keep going, or do you feel like that's what you were looking for? And they can stop and say, oh yeah, no, no, that's totally fine. Or yes, please talk about that second thing you just mentioned. Or well, actually what I meant is, when have you done this? And then they clarify. And so now you're not burning precious time in the interview giving them information that they don't actually want. and feels kind of off base from what they're saying. Um, as well as you can even do that if you are going deep into an example and you've told them a lot already, and you can just pause and say, do you want more information? And they might say, no, I'm good, or yes, tell me more. Um, yes. So, okay, I'm seeing lots of— all right. So Steve says, this subject is for me, wondering how to recover when you go completely blank and can't and can spit out an answer. That happened to me and it was pretty embarrassing. I know, it's, it's so normal to go completely blank, um, and, and just to not, to not know what to say, right? Um, you really— sometimes a lot of us will also will be asked a question. I think a lot of people don't think about how you should have a notebook out when you're asked interview questions because sometimes they'll ask kind of complex questions. Like, tell me about a time when there was conflict on your team, and then your performance metrics were down and blah, blah, right? Like, where there's like several components, and I want you to tell me the situation, and then the people you talked to, blah, blah. And there's all these different things. And if you're good at taking notes, or I would say even take a, take a note-taking class. I'm quite good at shorthand. I do not write things out word for word. I will write shorthand and be able to reference it very quickly. That's something I'm constantly— when I'm doing coaching calls with my clients, like, they've seen me like a lot kind of like looking down, but it's because I'm like writing down everything they're saying. And then the feedback I give them is so much higher quality because they just gave me very detailed information, but I have it here like quickly able to reference. And it's the same as in an interview. So you do want to be scribbling down some of the things that they're saying. And now some people will say, well, doesn't it seem then like you're disengaged from the conversation, whatnot? I don't know about you. Every business meeting I'm in, I'm taking notes, and I'm fully engaged, but I'm also taking notes. And I think, and I've actually even went around to different executives and CEOs, and I asked, how would you feel if someone took notes in a job interview? Without hearing everyone else's responses, unanimously they said, I would feel more confident that this person is paying attention, is taking this seriously. And, and as long as you're using that information and like checking in and all that kind of stuff, it just makes you seem like a much higher caliber employee because that's how you would do it in, in real life, right? So yes, ask them to clarify. I worked with someone who often used the kryptonite question. She meant it as a weakness, but used kryptonite to see if, if I, if, if they, they knew Superman and see if people would ask. Oh my gosh, that is so ridiculous. Kryptonite is a common term in my social professional circles. It means potentially lethal weakness. It's something that you can't overcome or recover from on your own. Yes, and I hear that. I hear that. And you know, I know, I know kryptonite from, from Superman. And you know, that was, that was the one thing that could, you know, kind of defeat his super strength. But I, I, and I, and I completely understand, but I think in the context of, yes, an interview or, or, uh, as I said, an engagement survey, I don't think you can use these kind of like vague terms without defining them, right? Like, I think if you wanted to use kryptonite, then that would have to say something like, you know, because there was a question about strengths, there was a question about weakness, it was like kryptonite. Okay, so the thing the thing that you can't overcome, you know, the, the one weakness that, um, either you can't be trained out of or you need excessive training for, right? Like, I think you would need to define that. So anyways, I just want people to feel like that. And it's interesting to see folks say this because I'm sure like some people, they're like, oh well, of course, of course it means this. And that's the way your interviewers are, is they, they say things and they're like, well, of course they'll know what this means. Exactly. So I got called about a job I interviewed for a month ago. After 2 weeks, HR texted me saying they were going with someone else. On the call, I asked about— I asked about why the role is reopened. They said the candidate was not the right fit. Is this a bad sign? They invited me for another interview. It's impossible to say. It, it could be a bad sign, yes. Also, the candidate— like, it's tough to say who is at fault here. Was it the manager difficult to hire for? Is the hiring process not very attuned to finding the right people? Or did that person simply accept this offer, was in other interview processes, and then found another offer they liked better and then just left this job? It's really tough to say. That's why I think it's super important to first of all take the interview, and second of all, before any job offer I've ever accepted, I talk to people who have worked at that company in the past. So these are people who no longer work at the company. Why? Because those people have nothing to lose. They will give me their full, you know, unfiltered feedback and thoughts on the company, and And then if the company still looks good after that, then I would join them. So I would say that that's— that would be a good way to do it. I was asked what motivates me and I temporarily froze, could not think of anything. Towards the end of the interview, I circled back to it and said setting goals for myself. Barbara, what a great strategy, because it is— that is a tough question. What motivates you? And I want to point out why this question is so difficult. I mean, it might be difficult for people for different reasons, but it's actually the broader the question, often it actually is harder. Like, you might think, oh, when someone asks for something super specific, that's when it's really hard. And in some cases, yes, that is true. But it actually— if I was to say, like, what is your favorite memory? What is your favorite memory? What? There's nothing. I can't ask for a broader question than that, right? But if I said, you know, what is, uh, maybe what was like a birthday party theme that you had growing up that stands out to you, right? Okay, we're getting more specific. So anyways, um, what motivates you is a broad question, um, and you start to think, well, do I say something personal? like my family and taking care of my family or, or whatnot? Um, or do I say something more professional? The answer is more professional, guys. More professional. I would, even though sometimes people are like, oh, I want to see what kind of motivates you like in your life, lean, just default to professional. Um, but, but setting goals is amazing. That's such a good answer. And I, that is an approach you can do is say, can we come back to this question? Can we go back to it? And that at least gives you a breather. And you can even just be honest about yourself. It's like, you know, that I actually haven't really like sat down and, and had that question asked me in interview. I'm realizing my brain is, is, is going blank right now. So let's, let's look. If it's okay with you, can we loop back to that question? Right. Whatever it is. Yes, I need to use Otter note taker. Is this okay? I, I don't think that's super helpful. I mean, sure, you could. You— so, so anyone who knows about Otter AI, I mean, that's, that's taking transcripts, right? So yes, I guess. But so here's the thing. You should not be clicking around on your computer when you're interviewing. That is a huge no-no. Um, the, the value of, of a physical notebook is that you are showing, you know, there's not this like unspoken fear that you're kind of cheating or not even cheating. I don't want, I don't want to, I don't want to make it like seem like that, but like are distracted or are doing some funky things. It just, it's very, it's, that is distracting. But having a notebook here and, you know, instead of having to like read through a transcript of what someone said, like you have the bullets here, you have the, the quick things, short, short form. I mean, you could. I think having Otter.ai for, um, just to notate your interviews. So I've had like my clients do that where then I review the transcript afterwards. That's valuable, but I wouldn't say that as maybe like a replacement of what I mentioned. How do you respond when they ask to describe a past situation but you don't have a specific situation that aligns with what they're asking? Ask Mary. So what you want to do is you can sometimes propose an alternate, such as if they ask, you know, tell me about a situation where you were in an ethical dilemma at work. Let me know what that is. Right. And you'd use that. Literally, I don't— can't remember being in an ethical dilemma. So what you can instead say is, you know, fortunately, my career I haven't had to face many ethical dilemmas, but I did have to speak up when I disagreed with a direction that my coworker was pushing a project in. Would you like me to hear about that? Would you like me to explain that? And they could say yes or no, right? They might say no, no, but a lot of times say yes, sure. Now we get to hear about you kind of dealing with some sort of conflict. That's helpful, right? So I would, I would propose alternate answers. When you can. Yes. Says, I sometimes forget the question and what I'm talking about mid-answer and draw a blank and then panic. That's exactly what I'm talking about. That is so common, Doug. And exactly, that's why I shorthand write down the question. And like I said, even in my coaching sessions, that's what I'm doing is like someone will ask the question. I'm just like jotting it down and then I deliver my answer. Um, Ms. Model says, do virtual interviews require a different performance skill set than in-person interviews? I'm curious to hear what you all think. Overall, there are dynamics on a virtual interview that don't exist in person and vice versa. Um, for example, in a virtual interview, unfortunately there's a lot more you have to deal with when it comes to appearance. Like, notice here, I've, I've invested money and time into appearing more competent by having a nicer camera, by— I have 2 lights, like professional lights up here. I have the couch behind. I have the blank wall. I, you know, I'm dressed a certain way. And all of that had to be an investment because I'm doing this remote call versus if I was going to meet you in an office, none of that would have to be such a focus. And unfortunately, I hear all the time from interviewers, oh yeah, that person took the interview on their bed. That was weird. Or that person was wearing a sweatshirt or whatnot. Right? Like there's, there's, you would be shocked or maybe you wouldn't be shocked at how often those comments come up. And so that's something, there's just a lot of bias that happens with video interviews. Now, of course, when you go in person, they see your whole outfit, they see the way you look. But fortunately, it's, it's, it's constrained. It's not constrained. You know, you don't have to deal with all this technology and a background and everything like that. It's constrained to physically just like clothing and hair and face. So that's good. And then in person, there is more of a— like there's, there's an aspect of rapport and all that, and decorum that should happen. Such as if you're going in person, you should be showing up approximately 10 minutes early. You should not be walking in like with 1 minute to spare until the interview. And you also shouldn't be getting there a half an hour early and they're saying like, what is this person doing waiting in our lobby? Right? So there's stuff like that that you need to think about within person and all that. Not everyone has the same pop culture references, so that makes sense that it didn't resonate with everyone. Exactly. Yes, look at the camera to see their eyes. Exactly. Yes. And then says, fundamentally no, but the devil's in the details in terms of virtual interviews, in my opinion. Yes, I, I agree. There can also be unexpected issues in virtual interviews. For example, I need to turn off the air conditioning for virtual interviews. Exactly. Or it cuts out, or the audio is not good. It's— it— there's— I feel like there's more to think about with virtual interviews than in person because there's just more, more things that can go wrong. Exactly. What animal are you? A party animal. Yes, this question comes up in interviews all the time, you guys. It's so, so ridiculous. All right, so let's move. Yes, Barbara says behavioral questions are the worst for me. Tell me about a time when you— Yes, I'm sure maybe what brought you to my channel maybe is my videos on behavioral interviewing. If that's not what brought you here, just know there are hundreds, I think actually thousands of comments at this point of success stories on my behavioral interviewing videos. So definitely, if you're struggling with behavioral interviews, go ahead and watch those those free videos on my YouTube channel. All right, Jessica. Hi, Madeline. I just did a digital interview as my first, and unlike an in-person interview where I can read the interviewer reaction, I'm in waiting mode. Thank you for your content. Very helpful. All right. Rooting for you, Jessica. So glad to hear that the content has been helpful. Oh my gosh. Says, in the past month, I've had 6 interviews and only 2 rejections so far. Hopefully I get a new position. Let's go. Let's go. So how do I not freeze in an interview? My mind just goes blank. I just ramble on. I have an interview coming up and I'm really nervous. Okay, Judith. Look at me. Here's the thing: nerves in interviews are extremely normal, and they are extremely debilitating. And I personally have had to deal with this where I I would completely freeze up. The main thing that you have to do is you have to spark. the stress hormones in you. You have to get cortisol pumping, and you need to start answering interview questions when you are not in an interview, right? If I could, if I had the capability right now, you know what I'd do, Judith? I'd pull you up. I'd pull you up from the audience right now, and I'd put you on screen. I'd start asking interview questions. Your cortisol would start freaking out, right? You'd be like, oh my gosh, this is so nerve-wracking. Am I making a fool of myself? And then maybe tomorrow I'd say, hey, Judith, if you were my client, I'd be like, hey, Judith, let's do it again. You know, let me ask you more questions. And depending on what makes you nervous, maybe being recorded makes you nervous. Maybe being in front of other people and other people hearing your answers makes you nervous. Whatever it is, obviously we can't completely recreate an interview scenario because there's no stakes as far as like, you know, I wouldn't be necessarily giving you a job. But you can create other ways that will make you nervous, and you need to practice in those situations. The biggest issue that so many people have is that their interview prep involves them thinking through their answers and writing down their answers and researching. But then, but they haven't actually— the only times that they've ever been in these stressful interview situations are for actual legitimate interviews. And so that is my That is what I encourage you to do. In my program, we have both like, you know, one-on-ones where we can do mock interviews, but then also we have a mock interview tool where you can do it any time of day. And I even encourage people to like, hey, use this tool. It'll give you a mock interview. I want you to record yourself in the middle of a coffee shop so other people can hear what you're saying. So you're extra mortified. Then send me the recording and I'll listen to it and I'll give you feedback, right? And this helps to dull the feeling of, oh my gosh, like, this, this is so scary and this is making me, uh, shiver in my boots. All right, um, let's do this. Uh, and then Diane says, I think a virtual interview may be different as you need the right lighting, you need to make sure you look at the camera, and I've been told to look at the camera more by an interviewer. It's so ridiculous, right? Because you guys can probably see my eyes, right? So I— you guys are over here at the chat, but the camera's here. So in order for me to actually look at you, I'm actually looking down here, then I have to look at the camera. Yes, it is. It's very unnatural. Um, all right, uh, I've interviewed hundreds of engineers and program managers in that kind of environment. A brain fart, especially if you lead back to the answer later, is a good thing. Oh, nice. Excellent. So I, I can wear sweatpants in virtual interviews. I love sweatpants. Yes, exactly. You can get comfortable from the waist down. That is, that is quite nice. Um, what can you do, uh, if someone knocks on the door in the middle of your interview? Oh my gosh, one of my clients actually, uh, voice memoed me last night saying, oh my gosh, in my interview my cat kept coming in the room. What should I do, Madeline? And here's the, the, the thing. Um, what'd you do if someone knocks on the door in the middle of the interview? So if you're cool, I would probably, unless you think it's something urgent, I would probably ignore the door knock. But if you're thinking like, hey, this could be something really important. It could be a really important package, something like that. I would excuse myself. I would say, hey, I normally wouldn't do this, but it's very unusual. Someone's knocking on the door. It seems there seems to be some urgency with it. Do you mind if I pause the interview really quick and just make sure everything's okay? All right. Blah, blah, blah. Right. And I bet you, I bet you if I did that right now on this live and I said, And I think I've actually done that on my coaching calls before where I have like 15 clients on the call and I'm like, y'all, my kids are screaming outside my office right now. Let me just go make sure they are okay and reassure them that I'll be with them in 15 minutes, uh, and I'll be right back with you, right? And people just understand as long as you are clear. And also, like, I try not to be flippant about it. Like, I wouldn't be like, hey guys, my kids are over here, I gotta go, you know? where it kind of shows almost like a little bit of disrespect for your time, but really explaining, hey, this is unusual. Or I've been on a client call before where my husband calls me and my husband usually only calls me if it's something like pretty important. So I'm like, hey, can I— I'm sorry, I would not normally take a call during a client call, but this seems really important. Right. And it usually takes all of 20 seconds and we're back. Okay, so let's see. I have a list of 2, 1 to 2 words for quick reference in an interview. What other suggestions do you have to prep for a great interview? I don't have a prep partner for mock interviews. Yes. So like I said, like a lot of the things I just named, you don't actually need a prep partner. You can, you can generate questions. You can, you know, ask, have questions generated and you answer them. You can answer questions, like I said, with you just recording yourself. If that is nerve-wracking, you can do it in front of a mirror. You don't actually need a partner. Okay. Chaitrak says, I gave 6 to 7 interviews, but I could not convince them that I can make a big impact. Not getting where I'm lacking. Okay. So with my clients, typically when there is a— when we're trying to get to the very end of the interview process, This is where the rubber hits the road. Okay, that means that you're probably pretty good at interviewing if you can get far into the process, but you are losing by inches instead of feet at that point. And so what I would then do, um, is I would go over to— we have a tool called the interview ladder. It has 7 rungs in it, and if you kind of get to like the first 3 rungs That's kind of like the, the ones you have to do to like get to lower level jobs. But you have to climb all the way up to the 7th rung in order to be the person who's essentially getting offers every single time you interview. And so, uh, we have a, we have a, a, an analysis that analyzes, okay, how are you, how do you rank on every rung of the interview ladder? And then based on how, what their scores are I give them directions of how to practice and how to improve. And then I have them retake the assessment a few weeks later. And of course, I also will listen to their interviews with the companies and see like, okay, have you been implementing the additional rungs of the interview ladder? Have you been improving that? And so I would say just like really like looking at the different dimensions of your interviewing Um, you know, which areas in— like, it sounds like they're saying, you know, that could not convince them that I could make a big impact, right? So that might be more on, um, you know, some of the consultative side, maybe some of the visionary side, like all that kind of stuff. Now I'm seeing some questions about the coaching. So if you all are interested in getting coaching, um, I will go ahead and put my— the link to my program in the chat. It's at madelamann.com/coaching. I'll go ahead and throw that in there. Um, so essentially what we do is we handle every step of your job search for you. So we make sure your resume is fully optimized. We give like the full overview of your LinkedIn profile, making sure that's attracting opportunities for anyone who is searching for someone with your expertise. Then we go ahead and start applying for you. So we take that off your plate because we found that that is such a time-consuming aspect. And really, you should be spending time preparing for your interviews. So we are applying for you. We're getting you more interviews. And then all these things I'm talking about of like the interview letter, the mock interviews, the, the prep, all of that is then the main focus because all that other stuff is because obviously we can't go into interviews For you, and so let me go. Let me put this here: coaching. I'll put that in the chat. Hopefully that pops up wherever you are looking. Okay, so have you heard of a company allowing AI assist in your answer in your answer interview questions? I recently saw a post where the author claimed this happened to him. Allowing the company allowing AI assist in your answer interview questions. I have not heard of a company actually saying we allow this, or even we—I even think like explicitly saying we allow this is actually encouraging it. So I have—I actually haven't heard of that. Priya says I've had—I got two interviews, but the hiring manager did not turn the video on, and they. Contacted, and they contacted on G Meet. So I'm not sure if it's the real hiring manager or AI taking notes. Right. Okay. So you're saying that I guess you're— I'm by your last line. It sounds like someone was taking notes. But the hiring manager did not turn the video on and they contacted Contact on Gmail. Okay, got it. Um, I have mentioned that there is construction down the street, acknowledging the background sound. Yes, love that. Um, if I'm genuinely 100% qualified for the position, what should I do differently in the interview that makes that— to make that qualification impossible to miss? So just know that the person who is chosen is usually the one who seems to understand the company's problems the best. Notice I didn't say they, you know, necessarily talk about their experience the best, which I think part of that, you know, if you're someone who's previously worked at their exact competitor and done the exact same work, you might accidentally do that. You might accidentally speak to the company's problems. You might actually accidentally, you know, show them that you really understand their work because you do because you've done the exact same thing. But really, you have to understand that, that it's not just about saying your qualifications, but what does that represent and how can you communicate in a way where it shows you understand them? That can come from research, that can come from talking about your qualifications, that can come from the questions you ask, that can come from the way you think through things and the way you discuss things with them. So that is going to be such a huge component for you, Rick. Uh, okay, so Matt says, I hate when they're using AI to take notes and use your answers to assign weights to your answers. Yes, yes, that companies do that. They do. Uh, they'll transcribe your answers and then be like, oh, okay, and then they'll put through AI and be like, evaluate this candidate. So, so silly. All right. So what other tips do you have for when we mess up at a job interview? Well, keep, keep giving me some, some questions because I definitely— I mean, I'll give you another tip, I guess, but I do want to hear a little bit more specifics. So one thing that people often ask is, should I email after? Right. Should I email after that, that I messed up? And what should I say? My response to that is I think if you email afterwards, it is more for you. It is more for you to feel okay about what happened. I don't necessarily think it's going to fully move the needle, though in some cases, depending on exactly how you respond, which is what I kind of coach my clients through of like, okay, how can we, how can we make up ground after the fact? And I have, we have done some pretty stellar, amazing things after an interview where the interview didn't go well, but we were still able to recover it after the fact. But I will say, you know, I, I don't think there's a ton of harm in kind of correcting some of your answers, especially if you couldn't think of an example but now you thought of it, or you misspoke or something like that. And then at least if that is the thing hanging them up, at least you communicate that information. At least you can sleep at night knowing, okay, I delivered that information. Who knows if it's going to change the game, but at least I have, have shared that. So I recently had a phone screen with a recruiter and had zero rapport with them. Oh my gosh, I know the feeling, Mary. Call did not go great. Do you have any tips for building rapport with hard-to-crack interviewers? Yes, this is unfortunately common. And the thing that you want to do is, first of all, always assume that you like them. I'm sorry that they like you. What you because when you assume they like you, you act a little bit differently, and it's almost like you assume as if you're great friends. I and or not great friends, but that you have this like mutual respect and and interest. And so if they're kind of cold, giving you nothing, I would sometimes that will shut us down. We'll not ask them as many questions or try to. bring them into the conversation. Um, of course, if you try to bring them into conversation, they're constantly shooting you down, like, don't, don't keep trying. But it's really interesting. I, I remember when I worked, uh, one of the past companies I worked at, I— there was this, this one guy who was, who was very— maybe you could call him shy, maybe you could call him introverted, whatever you want. Um, he would come into the office, and every time he'd come in, I'd go, What's up? I'd say his name, blah blah. Um, and he'd be like, hi, hi. Every day he would come in and I would, I would say like, hey. I'd always greet him super warmly. He would barely give me anything back. But over the weeks, his, his greeting got warmer and he, you know, he'd smile at me eventually. And then eventually he'd come over and shake my hand like, hey, good morning, Madeline. And it's just, it's— I didn't let him being someone who's slower to warm up make me stop thinking that he— we were going to build a relationship and that we were going to connect. And that I didn't— I didn't make up the story either that he didn't like me. I just kind of was like, oh, you know, he's— he's maybe not as enthusiastic as me, that's fine. Or he takes longer to warm up, that's fine. I'm still gonna, you know, show him that appreciation, show him that I'm so glad he's there. And he ended up like really blossoming and he had like an amazing personality. But sometimes people with those personalities, you have to act as if they are giving you something even though they aren't. Now, of course, you don't want to be too crazy. Like maybe my example is a little bit too enthusiastic, but we had like a longer-term time to get to know each other. You don't want to like overdo the energy, but I really think that kind of keeping that energy up even if they're giving you nothing is good. Um, I had a 1-hour interview where they were— there were more questions than expected. Although I had performed— prepared well, I still felt I was rambling because I was trying to move quickly through my answers. Any tips? So, uh, I would say that, uh, here's the thing. We don't want to move too quickly Such as like, I don't want you to talk too fast in the interview, um, in a way where it can screw up your answers because people trust people who speak a little bit more slowly, right? I, I'm a fast talker, uh, which I don't necessarily advise, uh, so being a little bit more measured with the way you communicate is good. Now there could be an issue here that you are sharing too much information. This is absolutely possible, which is why I do recommend— first of all, you know, with a lot of my clients, like, I'll actually just give them feedback of like, hey, you include these details, exclude these, because sometimes you're too close to your own situation to know what to include and what to exclude. Um, as well as if you practice more, don't use notes like where you're actually like read— or scripts rather, don't use scripts. Um, often if you practice several times, your answers get shorter every time. And so sometimes it's, it's the lack of practice. So is your interview ladder at a cost? Yes. So the interview ladder and the, the evaluation and the coaching around that, all of that is in my coaching program. So absolutely, I already put a link in the chat, um, if, if you are looking for that kind of coaching. Um, okay, okay, cool. So how can I record my interview when I'm in person? Sometimes I forget when they, they ask to prep for interview 3. No, I wouldn't, I wouldn't record Um, I wouldn't record your interview in person. Um, okay, so I had an interview where they told me to feel free to ask questions throughout. I felt uncomfortable with that, but when there was only 5 minutes at the end for questions— oh, but then there was only 5 minutes left for questions. Should I ask them throughout? Yeah, especially if they say to ask them throughout. I think, Christina, definitely most of my clients do ask questions throughout. Of course, it has to be in a natural way. Like, you don't want to just shoehorn questions in there. But sometimes you'll give an interview answer and then they'll say something and you'll say, oh, well, you know, you're asking about this. Is that something you all are currently working on right now? And they say, yes. Well, yes, because we're doing this. And a lot of interviewers actually love the back and forth. They love it. I've had, I've had a coding interview where I asked if I could use AI and they said yes, and I got the job. In that case, it's a little more of this is what I'd actually be doing. But some of that does happen. Exactly. So it's, it's if it's a skill, if it's a skill interview, and they're saying, well, how would you solve this? How would you go about this? If one of the steps is, well, I'd go to AI and I would do X, Y, and Z. And yes, you'd want to ask, is that suitable? Like, in this scenario, do you want me to utilize these tools? And if they say yes, then great. It sounds like you handled this absolutely perfectly, is you checked, you made sure. And because, yeah, I think using AI is not necessarily something like— a lot of them actually, I have clients in all different professions. say 90% of them have on a lot of the job descriptions that they're targeting, they're asking for AI proficiency. So to show that you know how to use AI in an effective way beyond, I use it to help me draft emails and stuff like that, um, I use it to brainstorm, like beyond that is really important. All right. Should I be encouraged to reapply to a position that I previously fumbled the interview on maybe a few months later? Yes, Steve, I think so. Especially so if you've interviewed with a company. A lot of people will see the rejection and think, well, that's proof they didn't like me. And I look at the interview process and I say, oh, they interviewed— they did 3 interviews with you. That's proof that they saw something in you and you now have relationships with there. I would never, Steve, reapply to a role and just like reapply and just hope that they see it. I would go straight back to those relationships that you built and say, hey, it was so wonderful being in your interview process a few months ago. You guys are really one of my top companies I'd love to work for. I've been watching you from the sidelines and I saw this role reopen. And it would be great to be reconsidered. Here's what I've been up to since the last time we talked. I think that'd be fabulous. I've used AI to speak out my tell me about yourself and answer potential mock questions, and it gives good critiques and even how I can speak my words. It's helpful, says Diane. That's great. Rick says, if I'm fully qualified, interview for the position, get rejected, and then get ghosted. When I ask for feedback, how do I know whether there was actually something wrong with my interview? So if you interview and then get rejected, how do I know that something is wrong with the interview? This doesn't necessarily mean that something was wrong with your interview. That, that's like a— that's, that's true. It could be that they closed the role, could be that they're no longer hiring, it could be that they changed the leveling. And so even though you did well and you were qualified, They ended up reevaluating what they're going to hire for. Like, there's a million different reasons besides just you didn't do well in the interview or someone did better than you, which is a lot of times we don't think about it in that— those terms, right? We always think like, oh, I didn't do well in the interview, but it's like, maybe someone is better than you. Maybe someone is also fully qualified. Maybe someone also did really well in the interview. We always— we always have to think about that as well. Sunny asks, does the order of saying hi to the interviewers matter if one is more senior? Because one of them is more senior, came in later, and maybe I didn't sound as warm because maybe nervous. Um, does the order of saying hi— so someone— so the, the lower, the lower level employee was in there first, and you guys, you said hi to them, and then the person came in later Um, so here's the thing. I, I always think, uh, I, I could see how if there's some— they're more senior, you might be like, oh, like, let me, let me keep it together. I still think you should be warm even if they're more senior. But also, I've actually seen the opposite happen a lot, where if there are more than one interviewer, all of your gaze, all of your attention, everything goes to the most senior person. Which, just remember that people who are, quote, like, you know, lower than the senior level person, you don't know how influential they are. They can be quite influential. They can definitely sway things. And so if you feel like— make them feel like they matter, even if, let's say, it's the executive assistant, right? It's a room full of executives and there's an executive assistant. Still acknowledging them and their personhood and that they— their opinion matters. Because you know what? Executive assistants run the C-suite. You know, like that they actually have so much incredible influence. So just don't ever think that that person is not going to be hugely valuable. All right. The first thing I said in the greetings in my video interview yesterday was, "You guys aren't nervous, are you?" And we laughed. I kind of eased into the report like that. That's so funny. I love that. I showed up to an interview for a position and they had decided to not hire for that position anymore. Exactly, Karen. It's like it wasn't even your fault. You didn't even, you know, you didn't even make that, you know, that wasn't your fault that that happened. Your videos helped me with phase 1 of interviewing. Now I'm heading to the panel interview, but about their principles. I'd like your POV. Can I repeat PAR stories role for manager? Yes, Isabel. So, um, I would definitely say, especially if the panel is with different people, you can repeat your examples. Yes, typically I do say you can repeat examples as long as it's not with the same person. Um, so, uh, yes, I wouldn't, I wouldn't worry too much about that. I do think if there is if there are other options that you haven't already said, I would possibly prioritize those, but not if they are substantially worse than that first tier of examples, because those are probably really good. As a neurodivergent individual, I find myself stumbling and sounding less confident when I have to answer questions I haven't memorized prior. Any suggestions with dealing with this in particular? So Molly, what I would say is You know, what do you like in just everyday conversations? And truly, I, I don't know. I don't know what you're like. Um, uh, you know, being neurodivergent can be divergent in many different directions. So if, if you were sitting with a coworker and they asked you a question like, what is your experience with solving these types of problems? And you're able to communicate with them in a way that's not nervous. Okay, what, what is that? Why, why were you able to articulate it in that situation, yet in an interview situation it has to all be memorized? And so, um, that it— and if that is actually the situation where you are able to articulate yourself in a low-stakes situation, um, with a coworker, but then suddenly if this exact same question is asked in an interview, you would get nervous and stumble and all that kind of stuff, then it would go back to the advice I gave earlier in this session, which you need to put yourself in stressful situations where you're having to answer these questions on the spot. I've been having— I've been having several exploratory chats lately. How would you approach these conversations when there aren't necessarily a defined role yet? And the company is putting feelers out. Yeah. So I have a very— I've basically created like the science behind networking in my program. We have this section called like networking communications where you go in and basically every scenario that you could be in. Oh, I need to— I just applied to a company, but now I want to get their attention. Okay. I've been interviewing with company, but they haven't responded. Okay. I want to talk to someone who I've never met before. I want to talk to someone I've met before, but I haven't talked to in a while. I want to talk to a company that is my target company, but doesn't have an open role. Right? We have every single scenario and like exactly what emails to send, what to do, all that kind of stuff. So this is super, super normal. These exploratory chats, you need to be first of all extremely explicit about what you're targeting. So you can't be like, hey, do you guys have any creative roles open or anything that's like very custom? Customer-facing? No, you need to be extremely specific. You need to know exactly like what you're targeting, and it's it's all about three things. It's about competency, so making sure that they see that you're competent, likability, so your ability to communicate and all that, and then timing. So getting the timing right. So even if they don't have an open role at this very moment, getting a feeler for do you think you're going to hire in the next? 6 months, next 3 months, right? They don't have to know exactly, but is it likely that's going to happen next 6 months? And then you need to stay in touch. And so yeah, I have all the emails and exactly how to stay in touch, what to say, all that kind of stuff. But yes, you have to stay in touch because you have to get the timing to work for you. Um, man, yeah, I worked for a company where, uh, we had already decided to hire an internal person, but there were but we were forced to hire a few people out of outside candidates. Oh, so frustrating. I had an interview and the hiring manager said I would meet his boss as a final stage. That boss then reached out to me himself asking for a chat. He was impressed. How can I blow his mind? Uh, okay, so I, I have this whole— I have like very specific lessons in my program that are for exactly this. This is what's called skip level. This is a skip level interview, which is your boss's boss. And, um, there's a lot to say here and it goes into depth, uh, but what I would say is there's some several different directions that this interview could take. Sometimes this comes into a grilling session, right? Because your boss's boss has your skill set, most likely. Um, they have your experience, so they can ask you skill-based questions. They can ask you scenario questions. They can— this is a sales director— they can be like, all right, here's a scenario. I'm this type of customer. You're, you're selling me this. Go, right? You need to be prepared for that. Um, also, sometimes at this level they don't properly prepare for the interview and they feel like this confidence around their, quote, gut and that they will just feel out what you're like. And so in that case, you need to be absolutely prepared with really good questions to ask in the interview. If this person is like, is a little bit loosey-goosey, they're going to judge you based on how good the conversation is. So you need to have researched this person, researched the company, have deep questions about the organization, the team, the processes, all of that. All right. So I feel ageism is real. We are automatically being judged being 55+ and cannot bring any value to their company. How do we convince an interviewer we are not useless? Sad being judged. For our looks, says Barbara. Okay, so I've done several lives, uh, about ageism, and I would actually say some people have said like, wow, those were the most helpful lives you've done, because I have a lot of clients who feel that ageism is a major battle. 43% of my clients report on their introductory questionnaire that, that ageism is something that they're concerned about. So when I'm when I'm coaching someone, I look at what we control and what we can't. What we can't control is your age. What we can control is the way you you put yourself out there. Such as a lot of my clients, they'll say, for example, I had someone who was interviewing with a much younger manager than her. And she said, well, in the interview, what I told her is that I have so much wisdom that I can bring to the team and I can help her. I can help her to build this team. And I said, no, that is not what they want to hear. Your wisdom is not the currency of this job market. Your ability to adapt and keep learning is all— is the currency of this job market. Okay. So, you know, having a really fancy degree that you got 30 years ago is not appealing right now. It's like, okay, what have you done recently? What have you learned recently? And so that's the first thing is wisdom is not your advantage. Years of experience is not your advantage. It is about your agility and what have you learned lately, your hunger. There needs to be, if you are experiencing ageism, there almost needs to be a college graduate-like hunger in your energy and the way you talk about experiences. And I have so many, like I did a whole session on this. I think I did several hours of sessions on this, as well as I'm constantly coaching my clients on this. There's so much more to say on this topic, but I have seen that actually like my over 50 clients are some of the people who land their jobs the fastest out of anyone I work with. So I haven't really seen ageism that once you have the right strategies, that ageism is something that completely has to stop you in your tracks. So does your outfit really matter? Of course I try to wear professional outfits, but does color or something matter? I'm feeling I, I get usually failed while I'm wearing a black t-shirt. I would say default to buttons. Default to buttons. Avoid t-shirts. Uh, even, even for casual places, definitely wear something with buttons. It doesn't have to be like a formal suit or anything like that, but, uh, buttons are great. Blazers are great. Uh, and, and I would move in that direction because yes, people are incredibly judgmental about your clothes. I've seen it constantly in people's feedback, um, for interviews. Um, if I don't know salary for my job and I told the hiring manager I don't know the answer but I have a figure, what can I do to say that in the interview? So I don't know the salary for my job. So you don't know the salary for the job you're interviewing for. Um, but I have a figure. Um, I would say, um, I would say, oh, Karui says that, that, um, the, the t-shirt, the black t-shirt is with 3 buttons. Okay, I like that. That's better than 0 buttons. That is an improvement. Maybe the next one maybe can go have buttons all the way down, but I will say I do like 3 buttons better than, than 0. Um, oh my gosh, Karen says, I love this, fellow recruiter here, the candidates need this. Thank you so much. Solidarity. And so, so yes, I would say that I would typically ask about the company's salary range. And then if not, you know, give, give a research range. You— the issue with giving your own salary number, it's such a silly game show we play with all this stuff, right? Guess the number we're actually willing to pay you. You can say too low of a number, and if you say that number, they'll go, okay, sweet. This person will take this lower number. What a great deal! And you just lost out on money. If you say a number too high really early in the interview process, they might say, this person's a little bit out of our budget. Which companies will sometimes stretch their budgets for someone who clearly is a high performer, but they don't know that early in the process. So that's that's the challenge with giving. Salary numbers. Now, of course, if there's certain if there's a certain amount you want to make and it's not worth your time to interview with a comp with a company that's not going to pay that, then you can also say your number as well and then save us all time. Let me grab some water. Most companies I interview with, you have the option to appeal. Is it better than emailing the hiring manager as to why I didn't get hired? Hmm. I— so typically you don't get very good feedback if you ask for why you weren't hired. I don't think it's a bad thing to ask per se. It's just not necessarily a very fruitful conversation. But totally, I think if you are going to appeal, you typically want to bring something else to the table. You want to show, uh, maybe an additional work sample or, or really kind of like something that conveys that you put an additional effort and time into this opportunity, um, additional research, additional understanding of their business so that they could really see, okay, maybe this person is great because Oftentimes, if they will accept your appeal and they will interview you again, it's because of this perceived maybe lack of experience that you wouldn't be able to fit in this, or maybe lack of interest in the role. Maybe you're overqualified and they're like, well, this person's probably going to leave this role. But if you're further emphasizing, okay, here's why I'm so excited about this specific opportunity, that can help. All right. Um, so Thanks so much, everyone, for coming on. We are at time. If I could get some Wi-Fi high fives in the chat as well as I'll go ahead and link in my— in the chat, the free resources. So I have tons of free resources. It's resume workshops, it's free email templates. It's a job search assessment that helps you to figure out, okay, what's the number one thing standing Between you and a job offer. So I'll put that in the chat that you all can grab. It's a whole smorgasbord of of lots of different free materials as well as make sure I know you guys are tuning in from all over. It's from from YouTube, from Instagram, from TikTok, from LinkedIn. Thank you all for coming on, and I really look forward to seeing you. I am pretty much live every Tuesday, same time. So I really hope to see you back. And oh, look at all these greats. Adisa, Steve, Claudia, Eon, Stellar, Christina, David, Yakara, Molly. Thanks everyone for your amazing participation. Shafiq, Jane, Priya, Mary. So good to see you guys. All right. I'm going to send you away with a