Ep.17 Financial Insights: Lessons from Dr. Jennifer Finlayson-Fife's Life

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Hi there, Foodie Ozz. Welcome to the money's not your problem podcast, where every week we talk about how you can become good with money in your pocket and in your mind by using practical life coaching tools and simple and efficient ways to do money math. Are you ready to invest in yourself? Let's dive into this episode. Hey there, Foodie Oss. Welcome to this week's episode of the money's not your problem podcast. I have an incredible interview to share with you today. I cannot even believe that. That she made the time to meet with me. Just starting out on my podcast. I've been listening to Dr. Jennifer Finlayson, five for many years. And when I reached out and her assistant said that she would be willing to participate, I was beyond myself. So exciting. She's an incredible intelligent woman, very talented. She knows how to speak and she knows how to explain things, and she was willing to share her money story with us, and I love that. I hope you enjoyed this interview as much as I did interviewing her. And then remember to go like her and listen to her so you can learn much, much more of other subjects. Now, I know our interview in the beginning got a little messy, but I promise it was just the beginning.

The rest is gold.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Here's my conversation with Dr. Jennifer Finlayson Fife.

Tell my audience a little bit about you.

Yeah, So I. I'm Dr. Jennifer Finlayson Fife. I'm a 30 therapist and coach, and I work primarily with LDS couples around how to create a more passionate and intimate marriage. So a marriage in which one feels happy and free and. And has a good sexual relationship. And so I do that through coaching, and I do it through online courses and podcasting. And so it's a passion of mine, so to speak.

Yeah, that is awesome. And that's how I got connected. I listened to you on Jody Moore podcast. She's a life coach, my life coach. And it was really interesting to see that. I thought you would be perfect. After listening to you for a few years, I thought, oh, I know her, but I don't know her. But I would love to have a conversation with you. And both of us talk about topics that people don't necessarily like to talk about. They don't like to talk about money, and they don't like too much to talk about sex. So I thought that would be a perfect match here. Why do you think people don't want to talk about those subjects?

That's a good question. I mean, there's something personal, you know, about money and personal about sex, and it's also maybe where we are less proud of ourselves. Maybe where we can struggle with the issues of freedom and safety, which I think kind of is alive in both of those topics. And where people can be indulgent in both domains in a way they don't respect or overly rigid in both domains in a way that they don't want others to know about. Imagine too that from with money. And maybe this is true with sexuality also, but with money at least I think there is something about status in money or kind of like, you know, the more money you have, often the more respect you get. And so people may also not want to expose where they feel that they're doing less well than others, even if they're wrong about that. That there is the wanting to appear as though things are good because it's a way of establishing your status.

Yeah, that's true. They sometimes attach value of themselves based on how much money they have. I can see them doing that with sex as well.

I'm.

I'm less sexy or more sexy and, and sometimes image might not be the same thing.

Right. How desirable are you? Yes, exactly.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Yes.

So, but this one, we're not going to be talking about your cup of tea.

Yeah.

We're going to be talking more. Let's talk about you personally in terms of your money and because I heard some of your stories and how you had to pay for things and how you grew up and I think that was such a great story for others to learn from. So, um, tell us a little bit about how your life was growing up and, and how your family looked at money.

Well, I think money in some ways was an over focus in our family. I, I think one could argue and I think because there wasn't a lot of it, or at least my dad oriented to it that way. Now I think he had a point. I mean, he was a professor and there were eight of us. My mom was at home. They were paying tithing. They were wanting to have kids, take music lessons. You know, there were, it was a tight budget. Um, and so there was definitely the feeling of other people, at least for me, growing up had much more. They had smaller families. Sometimes both parents worked, they just had more resources. Their, their parents would pay for them to go get pizza with their friends. If I was going to get pizza, I was going to be paying for it. So there was definitely that sense of having less. And then I think there was also the idea that if you wanted something, basically you paid for it. So that my parents were providing our basic needs. But Anything that was really in excess of what you might get for your birthday or Christmas, it was on you to find a way to do it. Now, at the time, I did not like that. I have to say I'm grateful for that because it got me to think both resourcefully, but also to have more of the sense of that I needed to take care of myself financially and that I had a responsibility that I think was important antidote to some of the messages of feminine dependency on a man. But in our family, from age 12 on, you basically paid for your own clothing. I paid for my own braces, contact lenses, everything. From age 12 on, partly because braces and contact lenses were not necessary. I mean, I wasn't. My parents did pay for my sisters who needed braces. Mine was more cosmetic, and so I paid for it.

But yeah, so from when you were little, before you turned 12, because at 12, you knew you had that responsibility coming upon you. If you wanted extra things, did you have like, did they sit down and did a budget and show you guys or they actually taught you lessons on financial literacy or it was just more caught than thought?

No. Yeah, they weren't really teaching that, like, this is how you can do it. This is the way. I mean, I think we understood that my mom would, if we really needed something, she would pay for it. And then if we were babysitting or doing things, then we would. Could work it off after the fact if we really needed something or something was. But there wasn't really a lot of training. It was a little bit more. What I would say was there was a lot of support for being entrepreneurial and resourceful. And so they weren't necessarily saying this is how you do it, but anything that you want to do that facilitates you having what you need or desire, we will support you in that. So, you know, I, at age 12, wanted things, probably wanted more things than my brothers wanted. So I wanted contact lenses. And I. If I'm going to get them, I've got to come up with a way. And so I was going to the library myself and looking up ways to make money that, you know, and so I started some entrepreneurial things then.

Yeah, tell us a little bit about that.

Yeah, well, I looked up a book and it was talking about, you can make and sell crafts. And it was the fall, and so I thought, you know what, I love doing that kind of thing anyway. And so I got some books on different Christmas crafts and I started to make stockings, ornaments. These were not highly sophisticated things, but they were, you know, you Know, they were fun. They were. So it would involve some sewing, some gluing and all that kind of thing. But I was making them and then taking them around door to door and selling them to different neighborhoods. You know, my parents would drive me to wealthy neighborhoods and I'd go door to door and I guess I was just cute and small enough and the stuff was cute enough. I guess that's. People would buy things. So I think that first year I made, I mean, I don't know, this was 1979. I don't know how much this would be now, but I was like, I made $100 that first year. That's pretty next. Yeah. And the next year I made $400. You know, it was, it definitely. It allowed me to get contact lenses after the second year and. And then I evolved it into making gingerbread houses and going to craft bazaars and things like that. So that was definitely a revenue source for me in that early adolescent period.

That's excellent because you saw the connection of the things that you created and the money that that provided.

Yeah, that was really good.

And then you have that entrepreneurial bug in you that. Yeah, you wanted to develop because some people don't have that and they cannot see. They would not do what you did. They would just settle for the status quo and whatever they get. Right.

Yeah. And my parents, I think, were. They were proud of that kind of endeavor. In all of us. Like all of us have kind of been on. Very few of my eight siblings work for someone else. So there's definitely strong ethic in the family and, and they supported that. So it was, it was a good lesson of learning efficacy and to feel like you can kind of solve your way out of problems, I mean, that was another meaning it had for me.

And from all those experiences that you had selling things and creating your things and buying your contact lenses and things that were needed, was there any specific event or defining experience to help you in your financial journey? Maybe not a turning point because from early age you already selling things, but maybe something in a specific sale that you made or.

Well, one thing that comes to mind is I found I sold a lot more when my 8 year old sister would go with me because she was like, cute and people would, you know, open the door. Yeah, exactly. So they would like open the door and then talk to her and then, you know, and a lot of people were probably buying things for me because they.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Right.

Oh, sorry. Supports you.

Yeah, they're supporting a cause. Yeah, exactly. But, you know, I think it stretched Me, I know that I signed up to do like, a Christmas bazaar. And so it meant I had. This is not a big amount of money, but for me, it was. I had to prepay $10 to have the booth. And I wasn't sure maybe I wasn't going to sell $10 worth of Christmas crafts. And I just. So I remember at the time, like, kind of that anxiety that I was taking a risk and also stepping into a world of adults when I'm not. And, you know, it definitely stretched me, but it was again, a good lesson of thinking about it, you know, thinking through it. It's on some level saying I can. I can tolerate the risk of $10 even if I sell nothing. Of course I did sell. Remember how much? But I. I did make a profit that day. And. But it was just a good experience to like, also have to have enough product for a booth and things like that and.

Right.

And you had to.

Some skin in the game, right? You're putting bucks there. It's like in myself, right?

Yeah, exactly. And I remember just, like, one other story that comes to mind. I. I cared a lot about decorating. I still do, but, like, I wanted to decorate my room. So I had earned this. Some of this money, and I was now going to sew throw pillows for my bed and things that really mattered to me. And I was not a skilled seamstress at the time. I was learning, but so I'd gone and bought this product to come back and make the pillows. And then I didn't cut something on the bias. I guess it was like a. And so I kind of ruined it. But for me, it was like, so hard. Like, I'd worked so hard to earn this money, and now I'd gone and made and it was all about making these pillows, and I'd ruined it. And it was just. It was also lessons in kind of tolerating the process of learning and making mistakes and cutting your losses in a way like handling that things were not going to always go the way you wanted. And, like, you just kind of pick back up and just do it again. Like, okay, now I know you have to cut things on bias. And now I can, you know, go and try and earn some more. So I can still go buy more fabric. You know, they're just good life lessons. I think that I.

Yes. And back then, there was no Internet that you could just market like that. So you had to go to door to door. You had to go those bazaars, right?

Yeah, exactly.

So was there. How was there spirituality play any Role in your financial journey, your financial development journey. Journey.

I can't think of really a direct way. I mean, I think that the idea that comes to mind for me is that it reinforced this sense of doing all you can, you know, like that it certainly pushed me out of any idea that I should be taken care of by others or that if I just do, if I'm just a good girl, others will take care of me. That I needed to exercise a different muscle of kind of my own efficacy, my own creativity, just rolling up my sleeves and being involved. And you know, I speak with people in conferences and things that I think tend to go more towards the passive or the more kind of obedient frame of just that that will keep them safe. But I think I learned made more of a link between creativity and safety, like action and safety, than looking to.

Your capacity to create things.

Yes.

Gifts God gave you.

Yeah, exactly. And so I think whether this experience was just an expression of that or reinforced it, I do think that that muscle got much stronger in me just through that. You know, in fact, it has been hard at times in my life when there's been nothing I can do to make a situation better because I want so much to be able to act and solve. And so like having a special needs child or having issues that are out of my control and belong to other people, it can sometimes be hard to feel unable to find a sense of safety in a way through action. So I think that's maybe an overworked muscle sometimes in me.

Yeah, well, usually our. Our weaknesses. Are our strengths overused, right?

Yes, exactly.

Are there a person or other, several people that were influential in your financial journey?

My husband actually has been, but that's maybe a little bit later. You know, I would say my siblings and my. My whole family kind of was in the sense. My dad was a small business management professor, taught small business management at uvm and. But. But I wouldn't say my dad was like, highly involved in kind of giving advice. I'd say he was more supportive than telling me how to do anything. But I guess I would say it's more of that. I have felt encouragement and validation of that from my siblings like that there's a kind of. That everybody kind of understands that ethos where I think for some people that would be more scary to like, be entrepreneurial as opposed to just working a job that's a little more predictable. So I would say I feel that sense of like, support. And my. My older brother has. Has been quite successful in terms of business and so he's just been a good resource for just bouncing ideas off him or thinking through something. I think, you know, in what I do, I'm motivated primarily by my heart, actually, much more than the financials. But I also don't want to be dumb about anything either. So he's good. He's good at just kind of talking through things and getting his perspective. And then I say just my husband. I think the thing that I. My husband grew up with more abundance than I did. And so we've kind of come towards financials in a different way. Where I grew up cleaning houses at times for people. And so I had this sort of admiration for people who had wealth because I felt like they were living in a different world than I was, a different experience. And so I think I have had at times an over admiration for wealth and my husband, I think, spend the opposite. It's a little bit more like we don't. We don't need more than what we have. Like, we don't need to live like that. I don't feel comfortable living with excess. I don't like that, you know, so he's definitely pushed in a different direction, but I think it's also been good for me because I just feel like my relationship to money has evolved in a way that I feel much better about. Like, I. I feel just more secure about myself and don't feel the need to prove something like maybe I did when I was young.

Right. That's interesting. And when you went to school, did you get scholarships when you went to byu? Yes. Or. Okay, you had good grades and all that.

Yeah, And I just. That was part of the motivation is I had to get good grades because I needed those scholarship.

Exactly, yeah. Because you saw the relation. You learned that from studying, from making money. And then I saw, oh, if I do that, that's kind of like my money. Right? That's your scholarship. Yeah. And when you went on a mission, did you pay for your mission too?

I did, yes, I paid for it. So I was painting houses at that point, painting the interiors of houses. And I could make a lot higher, you know, much more than minimum wage would pay. And so it was. So I, you know, I took a semester off from school, so I had more. I had the summer and a fall semester to earn the money. And then I left in the January of the next year. And then, then my parents just drew from that.

That. Where did you serve again? It was England.

Spain.

All right, okay. Beautiful place, huh?

Yes, it is.

So looking at the. Your past now, was there anything that you. That you needed to reconcile any negative experience or something with money that you had to reconcile? How did you do that?

I would. The thing that comes to mind is maybe just my relationship to it. Right. So that is. You know, I never was somebody who ever had credit card debt or anything. I just didn't ever do that. I did take out some loans for my ph. For my master's program, but those were. Those were manageable. But I would say it's more that it's been an evolution in me, like I used to really want. You know, for example, when we moved to Chicago, we moved into a suburb that's quite wealthy because it had resources for my special needs child. But we were in the smallest house in that town.

Right.

Literally we were. Because it was just like trying to get ourselves into that. That area. And so then for me, it kind of reinforced, and I was home, I wasn't working. And it kind of reinforced for me initially this feeling like, you know, these are all the people that I used to clean the houses of. You know, that sort of feeling of these people were living in exactly less than. And they were living in a different world than I was. And I think I just overly admired it. I think I. It would make me feel some shame. It would make me feel a little bit less than. And that I couldn't relate to people with that kind of resource. And I think. I think that just a lot of that's just gone away for me. And I. I think one of the reasons it has is, well, I've had more financial freedom as I've started to work, so that helps. But I think that doesn't solve it, particularly because you can relate to that by still thinking you need more or going and buying the biggest house or whatever. And I've just. I've just never done any of those things. You had a good anchor, right?

Your husband was grounded.

Yeah, I think he was. And I think it was also my own soul. Couldn't kind of make peace with it either. I think if I had been like, I want this, I want this. My husband would have said, okay, like, if you really want it, I can. I'm not sure, but I think he would have. He wasn't the only break in it. I guess that's my point. He was a break, but I was also. I think that what was happening is I was starting to see people in my office that were coming from these supposed superior lives, and I'm like, wait, they're just like me. There's no Difference here. I mean, and I don't even want their life. And, and they've sold out a lot sometimes, not always, of course, who have all this wealth, but they don't really have any peace and connection and ease in their life. I think the other thing is that as I've developed something that really matters to me, it's like it is so rewarding and fulfilling that I don't feel the need for proving something outside of that. Like I don't feel the need to demonstrate resources to an, an external judge. And so then it really just has become more the question in me of like, what actually blesses my life? What actually is a blessing to the people that I care about? And so how do I use the money that really does make a, a meaningful difference? That just feels much clearer to me. Like that's the goal, not proving anything.

Yeah. And the emotional maturity too, to see that it's not better there. Just like you said that you saw in your clients that came from some of those houses and they're having such a miserable place.

Exactly right, exactly.

So now let's transition to your married life. And you already said that your husband is a really good influence on you. How do you teach your kids? I know you have two kids.

Three kids. Three, three.

And so, and you have a special need child. So how do you teach them about money or the value of things?

Well, you know, I think there's some of this that's a little bit inborn because I don't know that we have been such great, you know, like, this is how you do it. We probably should have been more like that, to be honest. I feel like, I feel like another liability I had was I kind of wanted to take some of that suffering away from my kids that I had, but I just think it was wrong headed to think that to get them something was to make their lives richer. Because it was just such an important thing for me to learn that. So, you know, we, I haven't, I can't say, like, oh, I've just done a fantastic job, but my kids have somewhat of an inborn inclination. And I think when I say inborn, I think it must come from my husband of just being conservative, like being not wanting a lot of things, I think, not wanting to waste resources. So even though, you know, I've said to my daughter, it's okay if you, if we get this, we can afford it, it's okay. She's like, no, I don't, I don't want to, I don't need it. So they just, just kind of are wired that way. I. I really don't think it's because of me. I would love to take credit for that. I think it's a little more just their inclination. Like my son was saying, I just hate spending money at all. I just hate doing it. So I think they are maybe a little more wired towards security where I. The muscle in me was more about going outward. I think my husband's more conserved.

Maybe you guys being content with what you to have also played part.

Yes, I think so. I think so. Because I think they've just not felt maybe similar to my husband. Didn't feel an anxiety that if they needed something, they couldn't get it or maybe didn't feel any sort of need to prove something in terms of status. I think they just didn't have that much. And so they're wise in their decision making and you know, they understand that, you know, we've don't plan on inheriting anything. Like that's not this. It is on you, your financial futures.

Right.

So I think that it's. It sounds kind of mean, but I think, I'm just saying just make sure you understand that this is. This weight is on your shoulders to figure out as you go forward. We pay for their college experiences and stuff. So they're not, they're not paying for their, for their tuition and things like that.

But yeah, it's the, it's kind of like when you had growing up where your parents took care of the food and the school. The important things.

Yeah.

The extras they made you.

Yeah, it's on them. Exactly.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Yeah.

Yeah. And that's true. We sometimes have that inborn more of a spender or a saver. And then I think the whole experience with you guys being content where you are and having the things they need, that. That's really helpful too. Yeah. And so if you ever give. Maybe that has happened. Maybe not specifically with money, but when you give them a direction on something or give your opinion about don't buy this or maybe you should save your money for that. And if they don't follow through with your advice, how do you handle that?

Oh, I just think about that. If there's been. I mean, if anything, I'm the one who's like, you can get it, it's okay. Like, I like the temperature in the conversation. I'm just trying to think if there's been a time. Yeah. Like my son earned money to like buy a 3D printer, you know, and things that he cared about, he built his.

Make money with that.

Yeah, yeah, it's gonna make lots of money with that. Yeah. And I think, you know, he similarly had some regrets. Well, meaning he wanted to build his own computer. But then it was always. There was always sort of issues with it. I'm not saying he made any poor decisions, and he wasn't going against advice, but, you know, watching him try and create and do something economically, but then having some of the challenges that come with getting the less able printer, for example. But then, you know, what he's done is, over time, has earned money to build, to be able to buy a better printer, but still economical, but still a better one. So, you know, it's just kind of watching them learn as they go and. But I can't say that I've had the experience of. Of like, I'm giving advice and they're not doing it with one exception is that just my oldest child. My child with special needs. I just want to be kind of protective of him.

Right.

It's a little harder for him to kind of understand that, calibrate that. And so we've struggled sometimes with how much to really restrict, you know, kind of, because it's, you know, just wanting him to not always be having to deal with cash. But on the other hand, it's been a little hard for him to really keep track of that. So that's been a little bit more of a struggle of how do we make the bottom line real for him so that he can learn this better when it's not a natural skill for him.

That's wonderful, because we have. Some of my clients, they have kids with special needs, and so how do you differentiate between the kids that don't have those special needs and with one.

Right.

Do.

Exactly. And this question, I think, is always alive in me, like, am I being overly protective, you know, so that he's not developing a skill, or am I asking too much? If I'm asking for the same for me. Yeah.

Yeah. And do you have, like, a trust, especially stress for him?

Yeah, we do. Yes.

Okay, good. Yeah. Those are always good things to think in the future, because the other ones, they have to take care of themselves.

That's right.

You understand as a parent, you understand that the capabilities and abilities of the.

Maybe just. Exactly.

You know, we always hear people saying, but I raise everybody the same as well. Sometimes you have to separate each child to child.

Yeah, exactly. Depending on exactly what their limitations are and what their strengths are. Yeah.

So do you continue to learn about financial things or it just keeps progressing without you seeking opportunities or learning books or something like that?

Yeah, I mean, I probably could be a lot better at this. I've kind of had my husband handle a lot of the. Just the investments, and he's just kind of. I'm just sort of out.

He's the nerd. You're the free spear.

Exactly. So I'm sort of earning it and doing things, and then, you know, he deals with. I mean. Yeah, yeah, I'm aware, and I'm in on conversations and stuff, of course, but. But he's really the one kind of handling it and making some of those decisions. And I'm really glad in a way to not. I just glad to get to do what I like to do.

Yeah, you have your challenge. So you used your strengths, right, that way.

Yeah. Yeah. One of my ways of living has tended to be create value, create resources rather than conserve. And my husband's inclination is more, you know, conserve. So in some ways, it's been a good combination. There's times of conflict in that. Right. Where, you know, I want to take a risk or try something, and he's more like, I don't know, maybe you don't. Shouldn't change anything. If it's not broken, don't fix it. You know, so there's. There's a meaningful tension. I think it's a valuable tension because it's. It's allows us to kind of check, is this wise or not.

Right.

But, yeah, that's the way we've tended to do it. And. And. And so, you know, I'm the biggest drain on the pot, but I'm also the biggest input on the pot.

I think it's interesting because a lot of my clients, sometimes mothers or women, don't want to deal with the money, or the man is too protective and he takes the money. And it's not an agreement. It just happens because of the culture. So it's interesting. It's very important that you point out that is an agreement that both of you are in agreement with each one's roles.

Yeah, exactly.

Right. So it's intentional. It's not just one taken from the other or you are not allowed to do your input. Stop. Valid.

Yeah, exactly. I think. I don't even know we made any explicit agreement, but it's an agreement. We've understood how to say it and. And not resent. Try not to resent. You know, I think at times in the beginning, I. Well, I think when it was hard for me was when I was home with my kids and I had my child who had high needs and expenses were high because we were hiring therapists and there was just like no wiggle room at all. And the muscle that I normally engaged, which is go solve, go earn, go, I couldn't engage that muscle because I was choosing to be home and it was my choice. So you know, that was harder time where I feel like John wasn't trying to like overly conserve. It was just like we have a, we only have this much, you know, and it means that there's no wiggle room. And so for me that was a harder time because I had to like really push on a muscle that was not as easy for me, which is not now, not now, not now. But you know, we got through it and it was, it was okay. But it probably was more stressful for my husband then because it was just so hard for me to like not go get that dresser and paint it, even if it was like one at a garage sale. I like wanted to the house to be cute and I wanted to work and there just was like almost nothing to draw from during that time of high expenses.

And this is perfect segue. Talk about to the, to that woman that's going through what you did back then, someone who's at home, you have a high, high needs, it could be special needs or not, but you have.

A high, high demand parenting.

Yes. And talk about that woman that made the choice to stay home, but she sees that situation, what would you tell her?

Well, one thing, at least for me that was very helpful during that period was to just remind myself that I actually had choices. Because otherwise it just felt too constraining. Because I think for me sometimes buying something, creating something, painting a room, it. It made me feel like alive. And it was expressing a skill and a gift of mine. And so to feel like there wasn't any room for that would just make me feel a little bit trapped. And then I had a child with a lot of challenges and that could. And it was very difficult to go out and do things because it was often too overwhelming for him. And so there was this feeling that could come over me of entrapment. And so what helped me a lot was I am not actually trapped, meaning I have a challenging situation. It is not easy to be a full time parent and there's not a lot of resources. But I, and I don't have to do this. I could go work, I could turn this over to somebody else. I could take time away even and try and earn money in some other domain while still being helped. But I have choices. And the thing that helped me is it just reminded me that I. This is a box I've chosen. It's not how to say.

Right, right, yeah.

Part of it was put upon me because you decided to embrace, but of my options. This is still the place I feel best about. And for me, that was very helpful for just keeping the sense of. It's a container that is not my favorite, but it's the one that I feel best about. And it's temporary. It's not here forever. Things will change at a different season. In time, it will feel right to do other things. And so that helped me too, that I understood this was a kind of investment. And so for me, I thought of it as. In terms of like, you know, when I was in school, I was investing. I wasn't making any money. I had no money, but I was investing my energy into creating something. As a young mother, I am investing in my family and my kids, in a reality that right now is. Is my opportunity. And so I don't have those things the way that I want them. But someday I will. I'll be able to make other choices. And so that helped a lot. Yeah.

It's not permanent, right. It's not a permanent situation. And you're planting the seeds. Right. And now you're getting the sowing, the.

Benefit of those seeds.

Right.

That, and at a minimum have that, you know, I don't regret that. Right.

The resentment.

What about those choices?

Yeah.

Yes, exactly.

That is, that's. You show up as you wanted at that time. It was hard and you should did it. Because a lot of times we think, oh, if it's not easy, I'm not going to do it. No, you do it even when it's hard.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: That's right.

And there are blessings and that's. Right. Doesn't last forever.

Exactly. And when we bring our volition to sacrifice, I think sometimes when sacrifice feels brutal is when we feel like, well, we have to do it, you know, we're not a good person if we're not doing it or, you know, and I think when we're trying to prove to other people something that feels entrapping.

Right.

So if we can just remind ourselves, like, I have choices and what do I feel best about bringing your volition to sacrifice. It's still hard, but it makes it easier. It's like I'm engaging in creating something by doing this difficult thing.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: Right.

And, you know, that was an idea that I could relate to. Like I'm. I'm involved in creating something I care about by not doing other things and choosing this one.

That's perfect. Yeah. That is a great advice for anybody for whatever situation or financial setback that you're facing, thinking that's not permanent, that something's going to come out of it. And not what Dr. John Deloney says is choose guilt over resentment.

Right. Yeah.

You feel a little guilty, but it's that you don't want to resent.

That's right.

It feels worse. All right, so I have a few just rapid fire questions for us to finish.

Yeah.

What was the worst financial decision you ever made?

Oh, gosh.

I know.

It's not so much that it had negative consequences on us financially, but it had negative consequences on me emotionally. So this is when. When my. When my husband and I were first looking for houses, when we were. When we were engaged, I really wanted to buy an antique home. Okay.

Like, to remodel to.

Yes, to remodel. And because it had all this beautiful woodwork in detail, and we were in New England, and I grew up in New England, and I just loved that. And it was just my dream. And we had considered doing that when we were dating, but we decided we just didn't need that much house. We. Anyway, it doesn't matter. But we saw some really adorable places, but we just decided to live closer into the city and get something smaller. But then when we were thinking of moving out of the city, as I was finishing my, you know, dissertation and stuff, there was a house that came on the market that was an antique, but it wasn't really as like, the ones we had been considering. But it. I wanted it. And I was pushing my husband sort of against the part of him that didn't feel good about it. And I pushed and pushed and pushed, and I think there's some. I can understand why I was doing this from my own history, but it just. It wasn't a collaborative decision. I mean, he basically relented. But it was based in not the two of us saying we feel best about it. He had it. He made his peace with it. He actually didn't feel bad about the choice. Ultimately, I did. I felt bad that I had pressured something that wasn't really both of us. I don't think it was a great choice. I mean, I think there was limitations in that house that were there and obvious, but I just did not. I just wanted this dream in my head, and I just. I just didn't kind of. I let this sort of fear of not getting what I wanted.

The red flags on a relationship, they didn't want to see it. Right.

Yeah, right, exactly. I didn't want those. Those liabilities to be there, so I just kind of was, like, glossing them. And I think my husband was much more aware of those liabilities or more willing to name them. Okay. Anyway. And so he just wanting to not disappoint me, went forward, and I knew that's how he had done it. And I felt bad about it because it wasn't really what even I wanted. And now we were in this house, and fortunately, because we had a job offer three years later, we weren't there very long. And there was, you know, we needed to sell it anyway. And we were able to sell it and, you know, not at a loss or anything like that, but it was. It just taught me, like, I will never do that again. I am never going to enter into a decision like that that affects both of us and just muscle my way into it, like, because that I. I just. I felt bad about. It was hard to ever feel joyful in that house.

For me, it really was forced on him. Right. Yeah. Okay. All right. So what was the most useless thing that you ever bought?

The most nonsensical, but they've given me enormous pleasure are these fuzzy platform shoes that I wear a lot. They were, like, ridiculously expensive shoes shoes, but I love them, and I am wearing them like, three or four years later now. I've had them for a long time, and, you know, the cost per wear has gotten pretty cheap. But. But one could argue they're rather useless because they. Well, they look useless, I guess.

Right. All right, our last question here. What was something that you bought that turned out to be better than you expected? It might be the shoes.

Yeah, exactly. Let's see. Better than unexpected. I just know there's things like this because there's things we've commented on. Like, this was so much better than I thought it was going to be. I can't think of anything right now.

Okay, that's fine.

Yeah. It's just.

But we.

I've definitely had those things where you buy it and you're like, this thing. How do I live without this? But I just.

Oh, that's funny. All right, Dr. Just. Jennifer Feliza. Five, thank you so much for spending.

Your time with us.

And do you have anything. Any projects, anything coming up that we can share with my audience?

We have. I think the only thing that's. So. We've. We do our live events, and we just wrapped up a couple of them. And so we just have things in.

The Fall all for Europe. I noticed there's some in Europe, right?

Yeah, well, that's right. There's a Europe one. So there's an England Art of desire women's retreat that's sold out. Next year we're going to have two European trips. One is going from Barcelona into southern coastal France.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: France.

And then the second one is starting in Milan and going up into Switzerland and that will be in July of next year. Those haven't. I think there's maybe information on the website about those, but those sell out very quickly. There's only 18 couples in a trip. And then we're also have some live events this fall in St. George.

Yeah, I saw that too.

A men's event and then two. Two couples retreats. I think the couples retreats have sold out. I'm not entirely sure.

I think so too.

Yeah. But it might be worth getting on a wait list. And the Art of Loving, I think there's a few spots still left for that men's Retreat in St. George. But we will start posting events for next year as well in the next.

And you have your three courses available online anytime.

Five online courses. So we have two. The Art of loving and the art of desire are a men's and women's self and sexual development course. So how to develop into a self who's more self authoring and more at peace with herself or himself. And. And how to develop one's relationship to sexuality that creates more peace in one's life and one's relationship. And then I have two couples courses, strengthening your relationship and enhancing sexual intimacy. And they're both to take ideally with your partner, but you can also take them alone. And how to develop a more intimate, passionate marriage. And then how to talk to your kids about sex.

Sex, yes. That's an important one too.

Yeah.

Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.

[CFM COACH ASSISTANT AI ]: And this concludes my interview with Dr. Jennifer Feelings on Five. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode and I'll see you guys next week. Thank you for listening to this week's episode. Remember to like subscribe and share. And if you want to learn more about the attributes that make you good with money, go to my website right now, StrasbourgCoaching.com and sign up for the free 9 video series. I'll be back next week at the Brevio Brigada.