https://www.listennotes.com/e/c0386bb871184a32a0b0a12d9200f29b

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the surf and sales podcast. It's been a while, and it's only been a while because I'm here with my co host, who's finally back in this time zone. He crossed the. What is it, the meridian? Is that what it's called? I don't know.

International date line, maybe?

That's the one I was looking for. Right, yeah. Scott. Scott went down to Australia, New Zealand. Scott, say hello and give people. Before we introduce our awesome guest, just a little bit about how Australia and New Zealand was.

Well, first of all, hello. Good to see you. Good to be back.

Me too.

I had a great time. That's my first time that far away. I've never gone to Asia or Australia, New Zealand before. I had a really, really difficult time with the time zone and jet lag and calendaring and all that, because it's not just a. It's not just a time change. It's like a date change. There you go. Richard baited me. He baited me. He asked me a question just to make fun of me. Well done. We've definitely missed you.

Yeah.

Yeah. But what was your, like, favorite parts like? Seriously? Like, I know you went and you surf a ton, which was amazing. You sent me some pictures and videos, which was cool, but, like, what did you learn anything about how people do business down there? Did you learn anything like, oh, I never thought about it that way or. That's good to know.

You know, I can understand a little bit more now why it takes a while for that part of the world to catch up on certain trends and, you know, things that are working or technology or innovation or whatever, because I. I really felt like, wow, I'm at the edge of the world. Like, I'm really far away from home. So I understood it in a way that I hadn't before. And listening to them talk, especially in New Zealand, like, it's so insular, you know, and such a part of their culture to not stand out, not be different, you know, not. Not rattle the cage or ruffle anybody's feathers or whatnot. So it's really interesting to hear about how they perceive and utilize communities and, you know, social media and stuff like.

That.

And test out new technologies like AI and things like that. You know, there's a lot more reservation about these things than there is here at home.

Interesting. Which is why I think we all want to move there, right?

Yeah.

It sounds less chaotic.

Yeah. If you want to retire to a. A countryside life that's very quiet and absolutely beautiful. New Zealand is The.

To go, let me tell you. Nice. All right. Well, it's. It's still on the bucket list. And now I have a tour guide, but let's get back to the show. Why we're really here is to talk to a good friend of ours who we've known for. Lori, I think I've known you about 10 years now.

Forever.

So it's. It's been a while. So with us today is the founder and CEO of Score More Sales, Lori Richardson. How are you, Lori? What is your latest? She is dialing in from Tucson because she made the move down there. So bear down.

Yeah, bear down. Yeah. Staying warm this week it's. Yeah, we're breaking 100, so it's. But it's a dry heat, as everybody knows.

Yes, indeed. Yes, indeed. So. So tell everybody. For people who don't know you, which would be shocking, what is Score More Sales. So they have some context for the stuff we talk about today.

Yeah. So we're a sales consultancy, and the. The difference that we do compared to some other folks is that we start working with leaders and companies to help them evaluate their existing sales team. And we use data to do that. And we look at the people and the pipeline, the process. And then with data, we give them feedback and then would coach, train, consult, or work with others, such as yourself, Richard, because you've referred us folks before, or Scott. So. And then, you know, once I started using data, it was really a game changer for me. I encourage everybody to do that. I think most people are doing that more now, but they weren't even a few years back. So the data doesn't lie. And we can't just hire from our gut and use our best guesses in sales. We don't need to because we have data to help us. So that's what I primarily do. And then I also work to get more women into sales and sales leadership through a community I call Women's Sales Pros.

Yep. I know that one very well. So talk to us about the data piece. Right. Because look, we've all done the assessments, you know, the Myers Briggs and you know, you know, the what is it? What's the truth finders and all that stuff. Right.

Four box models.

Yeah, Box model, whatever it is. Right.

Yeah.

What kind of things does the data really help us understand? Because, you know, I have an opinion, but I want to hear.

Yeah.

Jading the conversation. What's really helping us understand what I've.

Learned over the last 10 years and that I started 10 years ago to use tools I did not create, but we wrap services around them and they're based on core sales competencies, not personality, you know, not mental acuity. I did a test one time to be hired at Xerox, and, you know, it was like, if you turn the faucet on and you put the spoon out, which way will it make a splash? You know, stuff like, it's not asking those kinds of things. It's looking for will to sell. Do you have the will to succeed? And do you have DNA in things like rejection? Are you rejection proof and things like that? So there's 21 of those. And I've. I've seen it serve companies very well over a number of years. I'm curious to see how AI will change things in the future. But for now, it works really well to help hire stronger sellers and stronger sales managers. And. And then it gives a really good level playing field for when you have a team of salespeople. You have a good reference for where people's skills are at.

Do you, do you ever find that, you know, and I would assume this might happen where the team already exists, where you go in and you give them this test. And someone who's successful doesn't necessarily score well on that test. And how do we balance that? Because we don't want to over rely on the data. Right, right. And to your point, you can't always trust your gut. Right. Where's that balance?

Well, in hiring, I never hired better than 50% successfully. I don't know if any Scott might, because he's most.

Most people, if they're being honest, would.

Tell you, I'd say it's 30.

You got about the same success rate.

Yeah, yeah.

Somebody told me 70% and I was like, wow, you should clone yourself.

I would say if you hire 10 people, three of them, you can get. Right. And be like.

Because we do our best sales to. When we interview.

Right, right, right. So, so how, how do you balance that, though?

Yeah. So sometimes there, there will be a sales rep that it does not have a strong score. And we look back, we find out, you know, they were given accounts and they came in with, you know, some special arrangements. It just, it. It tends to almost always make sense when you kind of filter through the issues. You know, if someone. Because they'll say, well, this guy, he's way better than. It shows. And then we ask a series of questions. Now, mind you, this is tailored to the role that they're doing. It's tailored to the company that and the industry. So it's not just a blanket bunch of questions. So. So it's very interesting. And. And it's not 100% accurate. So there can be, you know, we can be like, you know what? Yeah, I don't know. Let's keep. Keep working. But it's very accurate. So. And what I love about it is it gets a conversation going, you know, gets. We have. Sometimes there will be a sales manager that scores poorly because, you know, know, sales managers were never trained. They were usually reps that did really well and suddenly became managers. A lot, A lot of sales managers don't want to be manager. And once the data comes out, they'll say, I hate this job. I don't want to do this.

And they wouldn't weeds it out.

It's like, it's like they know, you know, and so then they'll talk about it. So I find it to be a really great communication tool in addition to. To coaching tool. And, you know, it's. It's just. It's changed things for us.

Yeah, I'm gonna. I want to flip this real quick, and then Scott, you can ask a question. I want to flip this over to Scott. For those who don't know, which. I'd be shocked. Scott's very good at hiring people. I know this. I've worked with him. He's taught me a lot. He hired me, which also says he's very good at hiring smart people. But, Scott, one of the things you and I have always talked about is you're like, you know, you're. You're not necessarily a fan of using recruiters. You know, have you ever done. I've never. I've never had this conversation. Have you ever done these kind of tests? Do you like them? Do you not like them? You know, you certainly have enough experience in life to know what works for you and the teams you built. But.

Yeah.

What's your opinion of them?

I've. I've used them before. They've been used on me. Well, let me. Let me start over. They've been used on me originally, and I fail them right now. This was 20 something years ago, but as I filled it out 20 years ago, I failed everyone. And the feedback would be like, wow, you're not a salesperson, according to this. And, you know, this was when I was. Well, I was an account executive and I was the number one rep in the company, so that tainted my initial impression for sure. And this was like a disk profile.

And. Right.

I can't remember the names of all these. These different things. And then you Know when I got into leadership I experimented with a couple of them because to Lori's point about data, I'm just looking for additional data points. I wasn't looking for a data point that was like a clear cut winner or a guarantee because I don't really think there is one of those things. But I never wanted to pay for it. And I also was in very, very early stage startups and had like no budget. So this was a non essential tool in my mind. A nice to have thing that maybe one day you know, we could afford. So you know, if I could could utilize it, would I be curious? I'd be curious. I don't think it would really.

Make.

Me hire or not hire somebody more than what I got out of the conversation though.

You know one use case that's kind of interesting, we have VPs of sales and CROs, we have a few of them that whenever they get a new role they put that in their package that they want to evaluate the existing team so they know what they're walking in with so they can observe but they can also get the data and then make decisions based on that. They learn quicker. Otherwise you can figure it out in six or eight months probably. But what if you figure it out in a couple of months? What's the difference in the savings? I mean that's a lot.

I just get concerned if anybody uses one single data point as their end all be all. I worry a lot about this. Lori mentioned AI. I worry a lot about this in the utilization of AI in hiring processing. Right. And if we start to trust AI's model and Lori takes this test and it's like nope, Lori, you're not going to be good at XYZ job.

That's happened for a while, right? I mean AI people screen and they candidate if you don't have a personal connection to a company. I mean there are people that never get interviews.

I just worry that it's going to get more and more like extreme and, and just black and white and there's. If you don't pass their model of whatever it is, then you have no chance. We're not even going to have a conversation with you. Right. And the assumption would be that the AI is now intelligent or good enough in terms of its algorithm that there are no mistakes. So there is no margin for Scott, who on this test doesn't pass to ever have a chance to prove it wrong.

I'm sorry Scott, but you're not fit for this role.

Right?

Yeah.

That worries me that we would never give Certain people, opportunities. Right. That is a concern.

That's the part I know about Scott. He knows how to find those people who've never been given a chance and have the grit to get this done. Like, I think that's one of the things I would. I would say that's probably the biggest thing you hire for, maybe, Scott, is grit. It's probably. Or one of the top three.

Yeah.

Coachability.

Coachability. I'm really, you know, always looking for somebody who's just at this place in their life where they're like, enough is enough.

Right.

You know, whatever you want to call that. It's like, I'm tired of getting whatever I've been getting out of.

On your shoulder.

Like, chip on your shoulder. Yeah. Just enfranchised folks, marginalized folks, people who just have not had somebody take a chance on them or given them the opportunity that has been put in front of others. And I like to say, well, here's your chance if you're ready.

Yeah.

And I like to put energy and effort into those people and, you know, it's extremely rewarding when those people do well and thrive and go on to do amazing things. Like, those are some of my fondest, you know, kind of coaching memories, if you will. And I'm sure that's partly why, Lori, you've been so active in building communities.

Yeah, Right.

And now you're part of, you know, I think you're leading the Phoenix chapter of Pavilion. On top of the women sales pros thing. How have you seen these micro communities evolve? Because you're one of the founders of micro community. I don't know the right phrase in my mind at least.

Yeah. I started women's sales pros experts group like, 13 years ago and ran it for 10 years. And, you know, people just want. People want to be seen and they want to feel like they have a safe place to. To share what they're feeling. And. And they want, you know, you can refer people better when you know them. And even with this, a group that I ran, people didn't all get to know each other because I think there were too many people. If you have a core group and subgroups, people can. Once they understand, it's like, oh, I know what Scott does. I know someone that could probably benefit from working with him and same with Richard, and. And they'll actually do it. So I think it's about being seen and. And just we need the human connection now more than any time. I mean, I see kids just scrolling on their phones and I have grandsons now that do that, you know and, and I guess because I'm older, I just look to when we, in fact when we got on this call I didn't tell you guys this but. And you were laughing and talking amongst yourselves and I was thinking this reminds me of my old sales pit, you know that years ago that when, when we were all joking around, you know, through the day. That's. I loved that so much and, and I miss that. And so if you can get that from anything and community of like minded folks can be a really great and diverse minds as well.

Do you think that there's a direct correlation between us losing some of that authentic in person human connection in our professional life and the hyper growth of online virtual communities?

Well, I would say yes. I mean I saw things take off during the pandemic. That's when women in sales group started that Alexine mood war runs and that's when sisters in sales started and you know a bunch of other organizations which we, I support all those folks because my idea is, you know, everybody wants the same thing. We want to see more Women in B2B sales and sales leadership. And so to that end I talk everybody up that's doing that and, and certainly people missed that when they weren't in person and then even when you could get back in person. Those online communities are so powerful and, and most of them do get together at some point in micro meetups and things like that.

Yeah. Dude, you mentioned your grandsons and, and we've touched on AI a little bit. What do you say to them, if anything, about the future of work and the future of our profession and is it a good profession for them to go into? Have you had any of those conversations?

Oh yeah, absolutely. And I mean I'll tell anyone that sales is an admirable profession. We're always going to need sales professionals in one form or another. The roles will not go away. They may get more limited, but now's the time where we can utilize all these skills like our communication skills and our empathy skills and our listening skills skills and our collaboration skills that I think AI is a ways away from in terms of putting that into to use. So I think it's the coolest to be able to think. I mean just think about it. Any of us could be dropped into any city and you could sell your way out of town. Right.

It's a great way to describe it.

It's a great line. Yeah.

Yes.

You never have to worry about oh, the factory's closing, what am I going to do? You know, it's like, we don't. We've never had that problem. We can always sell something. And I, I love that. And, and I just love the helping aspect for people.

Yeah.

So is it safe to assume then that your enthusiasm for the industry and the profession is just as high as it used to be or even higher?

Absolutely. Even higher. Because I know these skills are critical for success. You can't just rely on, know, an agent to do everything. It's just not going to happen. And maybe you're going to manage a mix of salespeople and agents. I don't know. That's. That's what I heard most recently.

I, I got, you know, I got asked today by CEO what I thought about, you know, one of these great new data tools that's out there and how it's going to change the outbound. And I said, well, I think you're asking about four questions, right? There's a tools question, there's a skills question, there's a compensation question. Like, it's not just this one thing, Right. And again, particularly with this, I think Scott, you said it the other day. So we were, we were goofing around online. You said something, you know, we essentially found fire. Right. Or the wheel. Right. Like, that's what AI feels like right now. And right now we're, you know, if you talk about a wheel, you know, okay, we can now move a bunch of rocks a whole lot easier. That's what we can do. But that doesn't necessarily know we know how to build a house yet. Doesn't necessarily mean we know how to build gears that interconnect to lift heavier things. Right. Like, so we're at that stage and everybody's looking at it as this one solution, and it's just not and it never has been. Right. We went through the same sort of thing when, you know, the outreaches and the sales loft came about. Oh, my God, this is great. And it was. And they still are.

And CRM before that.

Yeah.

You know, I remember when Salesforce launched.

Look, I was on goldmine. You know, Laurie, you and I have been around long enough to know what Lotus Notes is, okay? So, yeah. So for those who don't know, it was a CRM created by IBM and.

I sold computers with floppy drives.

Yeah, exactly. Right. Scott, have you ever seen a floppy disk?

Yes, I'm. I'm old enough to see a floppy.

Not, not the square ones like this. I mean, the big ones. Yeah, the big ones, yeah, the big one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just.

Just software In a box Software.

Exactly. So, so where do you think people are getting it wrong? Right in the sales world or, you know, if I just said it all with AI, where do you think they're getting it wrong right now?

Yeah, I mean when I came back from Saster, which I had mentioned ahead of time that I just been to it, the takeaway I heard was that you've got to work seven days a week now to level up your, your offerings. And I, I, it just sounded like, sound very healthy.

Why would it be seven days? Like who was, who was preaching that?

Maybe the head of the, the event.

Oh, Lemkin. I hate that guy. He's got such thin skin. He blocked me on LinkedIn once. So whatever, I'll say it out loud.

We gotta work, we gotta grind. You know, it's back to this. You know, we're gonna have to do this to, to, to, to get ahead and you know, companies are splitting their technology teams and some are working on this and some are working on the AI version or some are going to have all, all AI incorporated. It was very heavy. It's, it was somewhat exciting because I like, I'm not opposed to change so I like to see innovation and I'm all for that. But it, there was this message of you got to work really hard now to, to catch up or just to stay up with all the changes that are happening with AI. I, I don't think that's healthy.

I don't, I don't disagree that you've got us to learn more seven days a week. I have a problem with, you know, I think, I think what he just, I think what that sounds like is, yeah, everybody needs to stop with their side hustle and only hustle. For me, that's how I interpret that. You got to work seven days a week. So what do you think they're getting right though? What, what are they getting right using? We always talk about, well, there's some good stuff out there. What do you, have you seen anything that you like?

Well, the, the idea that you've got to be good in sales, you need to be good at follow up, you need to be good at your messaging. Mediocrity will not, will not work for you in the future. I, I'm, I'm all for that because we saw a lot of lazy sales people when the pickings were good and you know, money was everywhere to grab. And since things have tightened up, you gotta be, you know, you gotta have your follow through. You need to get back to people and, and prospect with messaging that's buyer focused and things like that. I mean, we, I think that's changing. I think it's getting better. I don't know if you guys notice that.

Well, I think the thing is that, you know, all AI is really going to do is accelerate the sock if your people don't know how to have good communication skills or if they don't have good communication skills. Right. If they don't know how to ask questions. I think the higher, the bigger the deal, the, the longer it's going to take for AI to replace you.

Yeah.

You have three or four different types of buyers that are involved in the decision making process. The human's going to be involved. I think AI enhances you along the way. I think a challenge could be on inbound is that you're going to get shortlisted without even knowing it because of AI. But I don't know that that's any different than a Google search used to be.

Correct.

Right.

I agree.

I don't know. So.

I have a, I have a. I have a theory and I'll see if Lori can debunk this theory or not. And pertains to work that you do with Harvard and teaching and sales. So there's this. When all of us were in school and getting into business, nobody taught sales in university at all. There was zero courses on, let alone a major. Right?

Correct.

And in the last 10 years or so there's been some like certifications and a school or two minors in it. And now there's actually a decent chunk that have a major and it's part of the business program and core curriculum and whatnot. So here's my, here's my theory. There's all these salespeople that sort of started, if you will, in the COVID era and a bunch of them had a difficult time if they picked the wrong horse. But a bunch of them made a lot of money and perceived themselves to be really good because they happened to work for Zoom in 2020 when everybody needed to buy Zoom. Right. And now they've gone through like a little bit of a tech downturn and now they're dealing with AI kind of revolution and all this kind of stuff. And they really didn't have to learn core fundamental sales skills. They didn't have to prospect, they didn't have to like grind and suffer. They didn't get taught it in school. So there's this like five or six year like period of professionals that I guess they would be, you know, mid-20s to early 30s or so. Now that really didn't have to learn the same way that we did. And they're also not learning the same way the students of today are learning.

Right.

Because I've given a few talks at universities this year and I was very, very happy and surprised to see that they're studying this stuff. They're getting good at it, they're implementing it. They're, you know, I was just like impressed basically. And I'm thinking to myself, these folks coming up have studied this stuff in school for a couple years. They might even be majoring in it now. And they're going to enter the workforce way better equipped than that last Covid era group was.

Yeah.

And I wonder if some of these core skills that are missing in some of today's salespeople will be there in this next group coming up. That's a theory of mine. What do you think?

It's very interesting. I agree. Except there aren't enough sales programs. You know, there aren't enough people in them. There are 200 schools around the country that have some sort of a program. They're not all majors and.

Right.

They're not even all minors, but they have sales clubs and other things. I think we need more of that and good professional teachers and professors, which many of the ones that you and I know of do. And I agree that during COVID it was like money was just being thrown around and it was like, wow, this is great. So I think, I hope to see that. That's always my hope.

I think there's also a lot of opportunity for universities, if they're smart, to shoulder tap a bunch of people like us and say, hey, we are looking to have some sales related classes, entrepreneurship related classes, whatnot. We could use an adjunct professor or two. Right. And then for people like us who maybe are at a season of life where we want to give back or being around young students will like invigorate us again and inspire us. And maybe some of us need some extra cash as well. Like there's an opportunity for us to go participate in that, that type of work. I would, I don't know if that is going to happen or not, but I can certainly see a need for that happening and we kind of have a chance to educate the students who become tomorrow's tech salespeople.

Yeah, we're the bridge to the real world.

Exactly. The bridge to that. To that real world. I don't know, Richard. Do you. You want to go shoulder shoulder tap St. Mary's University around the corner from you and see if they can Have a sales class. You can go.

I've actually. I've actually coached an entrepreneurial class once a year for the last couple of years. One of the professors brings me into to actually talk to his class about entrepreneurship and starting and sales and stuff like that. So I've done that. And then last year, I got to go to Columbia to speak. So. Yeah, I agree with you. I think it's. It's probably upon. Here's what I do think if we want that to happen, it's upon us to make it happen and reach out to these schools, because they don't even know. They're so caught up in their curricula and identity of a school that they. They know these things exist, but they're probably looking for some head of sales from, you know, a VC or, you know, the VP of sales of, you know, some Fortune company to come in and do that. They're not looking for. They don't think to look for people like us who actually do it. You know what I mean? So. But I. I agree with you. I think they should.

And, you know, there's a few folks out there, like, Obviously, our pal Dr. Dover.

Yeah.

And Stephanie. I can't remember.

Stephanie Boyer.

Yeah. I can't remember what school she's at, though.

She's at Bryant.

Bryant. That's. Yeah. So there's a couple people who are. I think they're actually the true bridge between, yes, academia and, you know, privatized industry and stuff like that. And they know all of us, and they do a good job. But, you know, their colleagues should be listening and paying attention because there should be 200 other, you know, schools that are reaching out to people, especially people who live nearby. Right. Lori's in Tucson now. It's like, hey, U of A.

You know, I have volunteered there to help them with it. They have a sales club. They don't have a program yet, but they're working to build one. And I also drive up to asu, and I have come co. I, I. I haven't coached there, but I have been a judge in there. They have a very impressive sales competition, which, by the way, many women are finalists for. I want you guys to know that. That you'll see fact at. When I was at ASU a couple years back, there were 10 finalists. Five were women, which is not, you know, it's way more than the norm in. In B2B sales that there'd be that many women on a team. And then it got narrowed down to five people, and only one was a woman. I was like, oh, this is horrible. And then the woman won it all. But what happens is that these women excel. And you'll see pictures like I've seen ut, Dallas, Post them and other schools, and they'll show their finalists. And you see so many women. So they go to corporate, they get their entry level roles, and then the men get promoted more than women do. And that's where the disparity starts. Because I would expect with so many strong women in these sales programs that we would have strong female sales leaders to the same amount. So that's what I'm working to see, is that gap narrow to where these great women are able to rise within the organizations and be leaders.

Has it narrowed in, let's say, the last five years?

No, not much. No. In fact, we lost a lot of. We lost women because of the pandemic. And then people didn't want to go back to the office. Lost some women that way. But I have hope still, you know, and there's some great women and there's some great companies that care and that are doing the right things to be good allies and to be supportive. So we love that.

Cool. So, Laurie, this is that part where we sort of, before we wrap up, we always like to turn it over to the guest and see if there's a question you want to ask us. We forgot to prep you with that at the beginning of the conversation. So now you're. Now I put you on the spot.

So I'm just curious, are you excited about the future? Are you. Are you both excited about. I mean, I heard, Scott, your concerns, but what makes you excited? Excited about it, too?

I gotta be honest with you. I'm not super excited about it. I. My concern outweighs my enthusiasm at the moment.

Interesting.

I unfortunately am friendly with too many people who. Who are very, very deep into the actual building of the technology, who essentially have told me we are past the point of no return and we are screwed.

Well, my ethical issues and your deal.

That I just heard about, so I have lots of those people in my sphere and it's difficult for me to. You know, you mentioned the word heavy from the event that you went to. It's like I feel the heaviness right now and it's. I'm scared a little bit. I'm nervous more than enthusiastic.

Good to hear.

You know? Yeah. And I. I don't know how to share that in a way that makes people think without, like, paralyzing.

Right.

I'm not trying to paralyze anybody or freak anybody. Out or. Yeah, you know, I don't have any kind of agenda in saying this. It makes my life harder. But I, I, yeah, I would say I'm less enthusiastic and more nervous. What about you, Richard?

I think I'm 50. 50 and it depends on the day you ask me. Right.

That's fair. I think that's fair.

Today. Today I'm feeling pretty optimistic because I'm focusing on some things around AI that's supportive. I still have this belief that we're far away from large mid market enterprise deals being salespeople being replaced by AI. Right now AI can do the transactional pieces of the, of the sale. Now it's getting better at the transactional piece of the follow up email and the additional insights on stuff. Right. It's slowly creeping into that world. I think that that's just going to be, and, and it will get into that mid marketplace. Right. Where if a, if a customer has a question, a prospect has a question and they email me at 10:00 at night. Well, I would like my AI to respond to them. Right. I want it to be that good so that we can move the deal faster. Right. So that stuff I'm excited about where it actually takes over, you know, that's just not where I'm sure like and I think AI could probably do a very good job of discovery. I think the question is is the buyer ready to do that yet? Is the buyer, buyer ready? On the one hand, buyers hate talking to salespeople. On the other hand, how many buyers want to sit there and answer 20 questions in a form? Right, right. And so I think the, the buyer is going to be a part of this and I, and I do, you know, now I'll speak out of the other side of my mouth. I think the buyer could be forced into an AI purchasing decision. But that's still at the low end. Right. Like that's a product led growth approach. That's an easy transactional sale. It's you know, some of the stuff we've already seen. You know, it's sort of like Amazon plus one do not be to B2C but B2B. Right.

And the sales professionals have to be ready. Like even if screens them first, you can't get on and be like oh Richard, who are you?

What do you do?

You know, I need to know everything about you when I, when I engage.

Yeah. I think the part of the answer too is the salespeople are going to have to be smarter. We're going to have to be more tech savvy. We're going to have to have studied more. We're going to have to know the answers quicker and faster, to your point, Lori. So I think that's going to be, you know, an interesting part of this equation.

What's jobs for all of us? For sure.

Let's hope.

The challenge that I see with your and other people's point or argument of over a long ways away from that is it's the same argument that people have used about climate change or, or other things that it's like, it doesn't impact me today.

Right.

So who cares? And when everybody has that so who cares mentality, all you're doing is kicking the can down the road, avoiding the problem until, bang, it's too late and we've screwed generations. You see what I'm saying? Yeah, that's the problem I have. So you're like, oh, it doesn't impact me right now. The more complex, the bigger deals you do, you'll be fine, or whatever. Okay. Until were. Not until you're not needed anymore. And all you're sort of saying is like, well, that doesn't impact me, so who cares? And I just, personally, I don't like that. It doesn't sit well with me. It makes me feel selfish and I don't want that kind of situation. I don't have a solution for it. But that, that's, that's my concern again.

Right. And to that point, I mean, I'm trying to be an observer and trying to figure out, okay, what do I need? What am I missing? What do I need to know? What do I need to be doing so that I can transition in a positive way, maybe have a positive impact. But I agree it's way bigger than all of us and there's no turning back. And I think your, your comments at the beginning, Scott, were more about the bigger issues behind sales. Right?

Yeah.

We're about AI.

It's existential.

Yeah. Somebody pushed a button somewhere and we're like, bye, bye.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's been super fun, Lori, to catch up with you.

You too.

Interesting conversation as usual. I'm very happy to see that you're happy, healthy, feeling good out there in Arizona. So.

Yeah. Thank you so much, guys. It's so good to talk with you.

Tell everybody. Before we go, tell everybody about your scholarship, involvement with the scholarship program for Barbara and all of that.

Absolutely. So through the Sales Education foundation, which po, they create a list of all those schools that we're talking about. If anyone's interested, they can reach out to me. I can share that. We launched a scholarship to give thousand dollar awards to women in university sales programs that apply. And then we have kind of a rigorous process to award them. We do this every fall and a company just gave us a very healthy donation and other people are talking about it. So I wanted to mention it, that we love donations because it's a 501C3. We don't handle the money. It's paid directly to the schools. And it helps let women know that we see you and support you in the B2B sales world. And it's been very. We've given out 50 of them since 2020.

That's awesome.

Yeah, very cool.

So anybody who's. Anybody who's listening, who's a student out there, you can reach out to Lori, find out more.

Yeah. Companies that might want to get their name out there as well as us as a donor.

Yeah, that would be huge. Well, thank you. Laurie. How can people get a hold of you on LinkedIn? Lori Richardson. Is that the easiest?

Yes. Four more sales. That's me.

All right.

Yeah. Thanks, guys.

Thanks, Lori. We appreciate it. Always good to catch up with you.

You too. Bye. Bye.

Bye.