S2E50 - From SDR to AE: how to prepare with Ashley Zagst, Chili Piper

I thought you were doing the intro.

I said starting off.

This is the best. We're not even.

No. Nope, we're not.

Keep recording it, Keep recording it.

Keep the camera on.

What's up, everybody? Welcome to another edition of the Surf and Sails podcast. I'm your co host, Scott Lees with my co host, Richard Harris, and we are a hot fucking mess today. And by we, I mean me specifically, as we've just discovered that I have barely any idea what I'm doing. Welcome to the Surf and Sales podcast brought to you by Salesforce sales Cloud Gong IO, the game changer for sales lead411.com and our latest and greatest sponsor, Vidyard.com for all things video in your sales process. We are joined today with, luckily, thankfully, by a woman that we are friends with and have known now for a little while. Otherwise this whole lead up to the show could have been quite awkward. But she knows that we are a mess, so this is not news for her. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the show from Chili Piper. Ashley Zakst. Good to see you again, Ashley. Welcome back.

Good to see you and thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to finally be on Surf n Sails.

We should also mention that Ashley is a surf and sales event alumnus.

Yes, true, she is. When she says to finally be on Surf and sales, she means the podcast, not the event itself.

Indeed, yes.

Which actually, there's a rumor that you are potentially one of the returnees to Surf and Sales in November. So you'll be coming back for your second stay with us.

Yes, it was that good. I had to come back.

Love it, love it. Tell everybody a little bit about, you know, who you are and what you're doing right now in your current role. And we know that that role is changing and about to be brand new again. So talk to everybody about that.

So, yeah, Ashley Zaks here. I am.

SDR team lead at Chili Piper, transitioning into the account executive role at Chili Piper. And I came into sales from the marketing side of the house. After six years or so in marketing world and the tech startup land, I decided to switch over, as some people will say, to the dark side. And.

Haven'T been happier, like, definitely. Yeah.

And, you know, we got to know you at Surf and Sales and, you know, I think you did a nice little presentation there around marketing and things. And you talked about sales, right? You talked about it, you know, marketing, but you talked about from a really small, smart sales perspective, right. What finally attracted you to kind of make the jump from marketing into sales.

Great question and I love this question. So it was a couple of things. I was really intrigued to take the skills that I had learned in my marketing career and translate those into a sales role so that like one to end conversation that you hone and craft and leverage in the marketing world and kind of distill that down to the one to one conversation that is sales. I wanted to see. It was more of a challenge to myself really to see like can I do that and can I do it well?

Can you give an example of like hey, here's what messaging sounds like, you know, from the marketing perspective and here's what I've, you know, really tweaked and learned to the sales side.

Yeah. So that's an interesting question because.

In marketing like it really should sound like a personal conversation. Like I hate it when I get marketing emails that are marketing. Yeah. And you know, you talk to our marketing team at Chili Viper and like that's the last thing they want to do. I mean Kaylee, our demand gen manager, she talks a lot about like when she sends our mass emails, she writes it as if she was writing to like just a friend.

Right.

Like you're talking to another human being one on one. But oftentimes like I feel like those marketing emails start to sound just like the more Billy Mays than like a salesperson does. Right. Like they are just like.

Blasting, you know, a thousand people on their newsletter list and it's just generic and boring.

How do you try to define that difference though? Like if you were thinking about writing, you know, and we know Chili Piper, right. Good friends of ours and we've known everybody over there and you know, I get it. I see your messaging at previous experiences. What was sort of the marketing ish version versus what you think a sales version could have been or should have been?

Good questions early.

So I think, let's see at.

I don't know, I feel like I've worked at really good organizations marketing team. So it wasn't too bad. At viral, for example, we would send a newsletter every week and maybe I'm biased because I wrote it, but like it was, we would share. It was a video advertising platform and so we would share. We had coined a term called advertainment. The push was to be creative with your content, not making ads but making entertainment that then like promoted your brand, whatever.

And so you know, we would share content that was performing really well in the ad advertising space. Like we distanced ourselves as a marketing team for being like we are by rule the ad tech company and we have these ad hosting, you know, products that you can use. Like we weren't product focused. We weren't like, you may not even know what we do, but you knew we had something to do with advertising. Like, you know, because we were just, we didn't want to be that salesy pushy.

Like yeah, even, even the idea of advertainment, at least I can paint a picture of that in my head. Or like I can, I can kind of grasp what that means. Not entirely, but I'm like, okay, that's different than advertising. It makes me think it's going to be interesting and compelling. Right. I like that. That's a really good example. So talk to us. So how long were you at. I guess here's the first question. So you transitioned from one company over to Chili Piper. You were coming into Chili Pipers and sdr. Were you nervous?

Yes.

Here you have life experience, you've got business experience.

Do you remember what your nerves were about?

Yeah, I mean it was totally new. I had been immersed in the sales world for a little while. I been to surf and sales. Like I was, you know, hanging out with you guys. I.

I did as much as I could to prepare before going into the role. I even took like a part time outsourced SDR job to like get practice on the phones before I started at Chili Piper.

And I want to come back to.

That, but keep going.

Yeah. So I mean I was, I was like as prepared as I could be and I was still nervous because it was totally new. I knew that I was making a career change. I was excited. I wanted to immediately hit the ground running and just learn as much as possible so that I could then be like the best sdr. I mean I had high goals from, I set a high bar for myself from the beginning. I had very big short term and long term goals that I planned on achieving and like have done. Did you have any of those already?

Did you have any doubt that you.

Would be successful or did you, did you know that you were gonna get good at it?

I guess no, I didn't because I, I mean there's always like I might fail.

And that's okay. Right? I think I just knew that I had made a decision, I was going to follow through on that decision and I was going to do everything I could to be the best. And like if it wasn't going to be a good fit, like it was not going to be because I didn't do the work.

So I didn't really.

I Guess I didn't really have doubts that I would be successful. I'm a high performing human. Like, when I put my mind to something, I'm going to, I'm gonna do it.

Yeah. So do you think that more folks from marketing can make a relatively seamless transition like you? Or do you feel like, you know.

You were cut a little different from.

The cloth, so to speak?

I don't know. I think if they want to, they can, I think. And this goes to, like any transition from any department or any different life space into something else. Like, if you really want to make that transition, then you can. You just set yourself up to do it. You know, you figure out the steps you need to take. And I think some people get turned off by transitions like that because they feel safe where they are. They don't like change, they don't like uncertainty or if. Or maybe they're okay with those things that they see. Oh, it's going to take me a long time. Like, maybe they're like, oh, I. I don't want to go backwards and start over again, you know, like, be at the lower level of something and then have to work your way back up. But, like, in my eyes, I saw it as, like, I don't mind if I have to be an SDR for a year more or whatever it is, because I want to learn that function and get all those skills so that when I do take the next step into an AE role, like, I'm ready to go and I've got those skill sets built up and then I'm learning some new skills and I'm just compounding that. And then I'm going to be the best that I can at that role. Continue moving on.

Did you hear that, Richard? There's still hope for you to leave sales and become a marketer. Still hope.

There's still hope you can do it.

Scott, let's be honest. I am your marketer. So.

You know, let's begin again. You're still in an Excel buddy.

Maybe you've upgraded to Google Sheets. I don't know.

I do know how to use Google Sheets, thank you. Yes.

Actually, I want to come back to this. Hey, I'm going to go do this SDR thing. And you know what? I don't have any experience, so how did you even come to that? I think you're the first person I've ever talked to that's ever said that. Regardless of the podcast, just in general.

How did you even find that role? Did you just call someone you knew in the industry? Because that sort of happens in this world. But you know, what was that like?

I mean, it's a genius way to.

Prepare for the full time gig.

Yeah, I. So when I made the decision just that I was going to switch to sales and I started applying for sales roles.

I mean, there were a ton of them and I applied to a lot of them. And you know, Scott, you and I talked about this a lot at the time. Like I was, I was collecting paper, People were, people were excited that I was making that move and I got some rejections, but I also got a lot of people interested and I turned down a lot of jobs. And this one in particular was one of them. This company was an outsourced SDR company. It was meager pay. It was just dialing. Wasn't that they weren't offering any benefits. It was not what I was looking for. So I had a great conversation. They were really excited. They offered me the job on the first call. And originally I was like, you know, thank you so much. Like, this is awesome. But I am looking for something that has benefits, has a lot more to offer. Right. Like, I just. The next place I go needs to be like, it needs to check all my boxes. Right? So then I, so I turned them down and then I was continuing to apply and then I thought about it and I realized like, yeah, I don't have experience and some people are like, okay with that, but I'm not. Like, I want to be prepared when I go in. And I was like, let me see if this guy's up for this. And so I called the CEO back and I said, look, I don't know if you're down for this, but I would be open to taking on this job part time and.

Making calls for like three to four hours a day, learning, gaining experience, whatever. But I want you to know from the jump, like, I'm going to be applying for other roles and I'm going to be, you know, when I get something that's like, checks all my boxes, I'm going to be pacing out. And he was like, okay, what does that timeline look like? And I was like, I don't know. But at, you know, two to three months maximum is what I'm hoping for. And he was like, okay, I can take a two to three month commitment. And then like, yeah, he agreed. He totally was down for me to work part time, do what I needed to do, learn, and then move on when I got the offer I was looking for.

What were the things you picked up in those two to Three months, right?

Yeah. One thing was huge.

That cold call conversation we were calling for, I could call for like four different companies in one day. Right. And that varied from Like IT companies to cannabis tech companies to payroll companies. Like it. You know, it was across the board, seven. So the thing about the scripts we were given, which, you know, we didn't have to read them verbatim, whatever, but that's a different conversation. 70% were is sales language, just general sales language. The other 30% is product specific. So I didn't need to be like a product expert to have the conversation. Also, my job was not to sell the product. My job is to sell the meeting. And that was a huge point that I picked up and learned. In fact, that's something I share with my team on the regular at Chili Piper. I'm like, you guys aren't selling a product, you're selling the meeting. Yes, you need to have product knowledge. But we're not diving deep in the weeds when we're making cold calls and trying to talk to people and get a meeting set up.

That's really cool. Where did all this come from? Like, you know, sort of, okay, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to figure this out before I do it. If I'm, you know, this sort of. I can't remember the word you use your. It's a highly motivated human. What was that?

High performing human.

Yeah. So what was that like? What was actually like, you know, as a young person growing up.

Wow. So one, I was the kid that couldn't walk anywhere. I didn't walk. I was like running, jumping, like spinning. I mean, I was a dancer my whole life and I played sports and I wanted to be the best at everything.

So like, lots of energy, couldn't sit still. I had a.

I lived. My room was like the whole upstairs in my house and like I couldn't walk through the middle part of that upstairs without doing some sort of like trick, you know, I was like doing some sort of like flip or whatever through the space. So if that gives you any indication energy level. I don't know how my mom survived. I sent her all the love yesterday for Mother's Day.

And then, and yeah, I mean I was in school, I was called an overachiever, which I didn't like that term. So I decided to coin my own high achieving. So I mean, I just wanted to be the best at everything. I like I said I danced. I knew from probably around 15 years old, 14 years old, that I wanted to be a Professional dancer. And then when I got into the Joffrey Ballet School, I went and then went on to be a professional dancer. And like, so again, like, when I set a goal for myself, I achieve it.

Do you still have processes? Do you sort of go backwards? Okay, if I want to do this, I gotta like, did you go back and say, okay, I'm gonna dance three hours a day and that's how I'm going to get into this school? Or you know, how did you set that?

I don't think at the time, I don't think I had that. Like, I could have articulated that. But yeah, absolutely. Like, I knew I wanted to be the best, so I had to be in the studio more than anyone else. I knew that.

Like, and I loved it. Right? So like, if going in and being in the studio before class started or staying a little after class was over, like, that didn't seem like work to me. That didn't seem like extra effort. It was just like, oh yeah, I want to be doing this. And it's the same now, like when. And I know there's a conversation about like, you know, do you love what you do or are you passionate about what you do or are you just doing a job? And some people will argue, like, I mean, I saw Katie had a great post about this the other day. Like, he didn't get into sales because he loves it, but does he love it now because he's dedicated so much of his time to it and has like worked on his craft. Yeah. And like, I get that. I think, like I wasn't like over on the marketing team being like, oh, I really want to get into sales. Cause I just love it so much. But now that I'm in it, I'm like, I do and I'm working really hard at it. And that makes me love the work I'm doing even more.

I got one more question and then.

I'll let Scott ask some stuff.

When you. So you went and became a professional dancer, right?

You are a high performer, high achieving.

What made you. Did you have an injury that made you leave? Or was it something else or the politics of the business that you were like, oh, I don't like how this part of the bullshit works.

So it was a combination of things. I kind of had a back and forth career in dance. I did stop for a little while after.

Like some health issues and mental health issues. And then I got back into it because I went, I went back to school, I went to college for dance and I was in a much Healthier place mentally and physically. Had an amazing experience dancing in school and then moved to San Francisco once I graduated and continued to dance a little bit more. And I was working my butt off and working like bartending jobs to help pay the bills. And I started noticing like a lot of my friends were doing, you know, entry level jobs and getting like fat paychecks. And I was like, what? And I mean, in San Francisco, Silicon Valley, you throw a rock and you're gonna hit a startup. So I was like, I need to get in on this. Like, I'm tired. I'm just tired. Like, I love dancing, but I'm tired of hustling and chasing my money. So.

I wanted to.

Try something else out. So that was like another life transition, career transition that I made. And you know, I took some time. I had a lot, I did a lot of informational interviews. I talked to my friends who were working at other startups in various departments to kind of figure out where my transferable skills might best fit. I landed, I decided marketing was probably the best way to go. In my head. That's what I thought, like where my creativity would come in most like useful. And so I landed an internship at that ad tech startup that I was talking about earlier on their marketing team and then that transitioned into a full time marketing role and that's kind of where that all started.

So.

As a content creator and copywriter, is it easier to write copy for marketing than it is for sales? Is it harder? Is it the same one had to have prepared you?

I think it definitely prepared me.

Do you think it's harder or easier?

I think honestly I think it's easier to write copy for sales. And I say that only because I can. I really enjoy like.

Getting like if I am writing like a personalized email, right? Like I love learning a little bit about a human. Sprinkling that into the email and sending that off like that one to one conversation is way more interesting to me.

So it seems easier.

So if it seems easier, then perhaps that's a little bit why the SDR kind of role.

You know, you gravitated towards it and you've done so well at it, but now that you're being, you know, promoted into an AE role, you're gonna have to get on the phone maybe a little bit more. You're have to do demos and things, things like that, you move into more of a closing role. What are the things that you have done to prepare you for life as an ae? You know, you did a great job preparing to become A str. What have you been able to do to prepare you for this new life as an ae? Now.

That'S a great question as well. I have been.

Watching a lot of demo calls from, like, our AE team right now. I'm also like, I'll be watching a bunch of calls. We use Gong, so it's like, super great. I can, like, go through and find, like, what if I'm looking for something specific to. To learn about? Like, I can go in there. I'm just watching as many calls and taking notes as I can. I've been setting up meetings with AES in our company, just picking their brains again. Is that like, informational interview piece? Like, trying to figure out, all right, how do you do this? If this happened, what would you do? Uh, what's next? Like, just. Yeah, I don't know. Just asking a lot of questions and being curious and trying to soak it all up.

I think.

I think a lot of people who are SDRs, you know, get. Get stuck kind of not knowing how.

To become an AE and how to.

And how to prepare for it.

So I'm other than just, like, listening.

To calls and having conversations.

But what do you think folks need.

To do to position themselves to maybe get in the running even.

And kind.

Of stake their claim and say, hey, I don't want to be an SDR forever.

What do I have to do? Maybe.

How did you do that?

Yeah. So from day one, I knew that was the trajectory I wanted to take. And so almost as soon as I could, when I started to understand our process of how we set meetings, and either they were qualified and so then we could set them on the account executive's calendar or they were disqualified and we had to deal with that. And so instead of there were set. There were a couple of calls early on where, like, they were disqualified because of a tech thing that, like, eventually we would be able to work with them, but just not yet. And so I was like, instead of saying, like, oh, I'm so sorry, I can't set this meeting for you. I have to let you down really nicely, you know, see you again soon, whatever. I was like, let them know, like, I can't. You know, we can't sell to you yet because we can't integrate with this tech. Right. However, let me show you what the tool can do and I'll like, you know, it's a no risk conversation for me. So this was like month two, and I remember Matt kind of laughing, but, like, I was like, giving demos in month two of my SDR role. So basically I was like taking these disqualified opportunities and instead of just sending them an email, I was like, if you still want to learn about Chili Piper, I'm happy to show you.

Yeah.

You know, so I was doing the job.

That's a great, great move.

Great place to practice. So you were basically practicing AE job functionality on non qualified leads rather than just discarding them. That was like your, that was your, that was your practice right there. Have you heard anybody else do this before? Richard?

I was just going to see this, say the same thing. Was like, I mean, I know people go back and they're like, oh, let's call the old lost leads. Right? Like, that's right. But it's not from that perspective. Not.

Yeah, not with this intent right here. Yeah.

Just out of curiosity, one, were people open to having, having that conversation with you? And obviously we gotta ask, did anything actually convert into a deal because of it?

Yeah. So most people were. They wanted that. Like, that's what they wanted anyway. They're like, if I was like, yeah, we can't really work with you because of the tech, like, they'd be like, cool. I still want to see what it does, you know? And then, yes, I actually have. I don't know if it's closed yet, but I had a couple. This was due to our HubSpot integration that wasn't live yet. Right. So these were folks who are on HubSpot now that HubSpot integration is live. I've had at least two or three that had been like disqualified conversations that are now back in the pipeline.

Will you get, will you get full credit?

Not full credit, no. I'll get credit for setting meetings.

All right, Just checking. Promoted. But that, but you know, you also just taught your entire team how to do this. You just created this entire process that y' all should be doing, you know.

Well, she did. She just invented or I never heard of it before.

She just invented a whole new play.

She just invented a new part of the playbook.

Yeah. Yep.

It's genius. Really good. High achiever, Richard. High achiever. High achieving human. So fast forward now into the future. X number of of years. You've had a taste of being a marketer. You've had a taste of being an sdr. You've got a taste of being a team lead, a taste of being an ae.

Is there a world where Ashley becomes a CRO?

Yeah, absolutely.

Will there have ever been a more.

Qualified human to be a CRO, Richard? Somebody who's run marketing and run sales.

Besides You, Scott?

I've never done any.

I've never done any marketing.

I'm just kidding.

Are you kidding?

No, I don't think so. I really don't think so. It's pretty. It's very rare. It's rarefied air, for sure. So I think you're. You're on the right path, which is awesome. And what. Just I. Curiosity. What is. You know, you completely shifted from the artist career to the business career.

So I have two questions around that. One is, how do you maintain your love and passion for the arts? Because I assume that's important to you. And two.

Any. I wouldn't say regrets, but are you like, no, I'm ready. This is just who I am now. That's who I was then.

Yeah. No regrets. I don't ever have any regrets. I maintain that through, like, I take class a lot, so I still dance. I still move. Every once in a while I'll get involved with, like, a project. So, you know, I did a dance for film with a friend from college back in San Francisco. So, yeah, every once in a while I'll do, like, a creative project on the side, but taking class. I'm also dating a dancer and circus artist, so, you know, still very close to me. I'm going to a lot of shows and. Well, when we.

There's also. There's also two drumsticks and a drum pad right next.

That's real.

I mean, this is a real thing, Richard. And I don't know if you've seen the Chili Piper band video with Ashley playing the drums, but this is a must see that you'll have to go check out.

Ashley, you gotta give us a little something right now.

Oh, no.

Oh, yeah. Come on, come on.

This is the first live musical performance on the Surf and Tails podcast. Just one little beat.

Ooh.

This is the drum pad. I'll just do a drum roll.

I'd rather play on my kit for you than on my drum pad. I suck at rudiments, which is what that's for, which is why I have it, because I'm bad at them.

I had no idea you were a drummer.

I know you're a surfer. I know you're a dancer.

I know you're a future CRO. I know you're a high performer, high achiever. So what are.

What. What are the.

What are the things that are difficult.

For you right now?

Because I think you could.

I think somebody listening could get the impression here that, like, Ashley can literally do anything. And that's probably true, but, like, I Know you.

And you know you're not immune to.

Struggling and failing and sucking at something for a minute.

Like, what are the things that are. What are the things that are hard.

For you right now in your. In your role?

Yeah, that's a good, good point. And thank you for. For kind of highlighting that I am not perfect and I do struggle and things can be hard and.

Yeah, so I think most recently, like, being in a team lead role, it's both. It's. It's equally fulfilling and frustrating because working, I mean, Scott, you talked about this the other day, like, leading people. There's managers and then there's coaches. And, like, when you were talking about that, I was like, oh, man, am I just a manager? Like, just kind of, like, reflecting on how I'm working with my team and what we're focused on, what we're talking about, what we're doing. Like, I want to make sure I'm not that. Right. And so that's a. That's an area of like. But I'm so nude. So I'm like, still just trying to figure out the coaching piece versus the managing piece or, like, you know, being invested in the human and also helping them succeed without just being totally, like, tunnel vision on metrics and activities. Like, that's still something that I'm like.

I don't know, swimming in a little.

How do you. And so what are you going to do to sort of prepare for that? What do you do to solve that problem? Just reiterating all the things you've been saying, but I love to hear it.

Yeah. I mean, I have the wonderful luxury of being coached by Michael Tuso at Chili Piper. And I think every week in our meeting, my brain explodes because you share some other, like, tactic or perspective or whatever it is for me to, like, try out or use or just absorb.

Did you go to him or did he come to you? Is that part of the Chili Piper culture? Go to him to say, hey, I want to get better at this?

It was kind of. It was kind of a mutual thing. It was like an obvious. Like, he wanted to make sure that I had time on the calendar with him. I obviously, I wanted to have time on the calendar with him every week, given that I was moving into that team lead position.

Yeah, I wonder. So when you went to. As you were starting your transition, kind of going back a little bit from SDR to ae, you talked about getting on the phone and talking to your. To the AES and asking more questions, Was that you taking that initiative? Like, hey, I Want to learn this?

Yeah.

Which, that's the pattern I keep seeing with you is like, okay, if I'm going to do this, I need to talk to a bunch of people first. Right. Like you talk to your friends who were working at tech companies and then you were talking about it, you know, eventually going into sales and then you took this part time SDR role and all those kinds of things. There's only been like one or two other people I've ever interviewed that really did that, and I think that's a really, really powerful message. I want to make sure we call out for folks listening. Looking back on all this, what would you have done differently? Not necessarily that what you did was wrong, but just like, oh, now that I know this, here's what I would have done.

I don't know, I might have.

I don't know how to answer that really. I mean, maybe, maybe stay in the individual contributor SDR role a little longer. Right. Like, I had the opportunity to move into the team lead role, but I do firmly agree with, like, taking the time. I know, Scott, you said this a lot and I've said it to my newer reps because of you. But like, you only get to ramp once, right. I think that translates into, like your career at large. Like, if you're gonna make the transition to the next thing, you don't often get to go back and like, have that opportunity to learn in that space.

From that perspective. Right. Like, so. So, like, maybe it would be spending a little bit more time in that individual contributor SDR role before moving, like making transitions. I think I, like, I don't regret it and I love that I made that transition and I wanted to and it was an opportunity that presented itself and I've learned so much. And that was part of the reason I wanted to step up into a team lead role is because in my opinion, I think you learn even more about the thing when you're coaching than when you're doing it.

So, yeah, I don't know, maybe that.

Do you ever wish.

Last question and then we'll.

Then we'll kind of give you a.

Chance to ask us something as we.

Get out of here.

Do you ever wish you started in sales sooner? Earlier?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, again, like, I think my path was my path and it got me where I am and I'm so thankful for that. And I love that the skill sets I kind of amassed prior to getting into sales and how I'm able to leverage them. I did not realize I knew I'd like It right. Like I had been exposed to different salespeople and different sales teams and was like, I could totally get down with this. I knew I would like it. I did not realize how much fun I would have doing this. I did not realize how much, like, I don't know, I love my job.

What's the fun part to you? Define fun for Ashley in this role.

Yeah.

A lot of it. I mean learning. So I love learning. I think that's something that I have learned as I've made this transition. Like, I'm just, I light up when I'm learning new stuff and I'm that beginner mindset. Like, like, I don't know how to do this now. I'm learning how to do it now. I look back at where I was before I learned how to do it where I am now and like seeing that journey or that trajectory, that's super fulfilling. So that's like on a personal note on that again that like one to one conversation. I think it's super exciting to like meet somebody from Spain. Like a business development manager. Manager from Spain was like, yeah, we could. We're using spreadsheets right now and like my life is hell. Oh my God. I can, I can help you. Like, let me help you. I think that's awesome. What's not fun is when you know, call somebody and they're like a total D bag on the phone. But I think that's happened to me maybe like three times in the past 10 months. So that's.

She's got a better ratio than you had, Richard.

Yeah, well, that's pretty normal. So. Sorry, I'm too, I'm too anxious and nervous I think when I was doing cold calls back in the day, so. Well, this, this has been super fun. And you know, before we ask our last question, actually, quick shout out to our sponsors of Vidyard lead 411 Salesforce sales cloud and of course Gong IO who is revolutionizing the way that organizations are educating the beginner mindset in sales. So Ashley, what can we answer for you? What questions would you like to ask us now that you've known us more than these 45 minutes?

Yeah.

So, you know, I am just now making the transition into the AE role.

I guess outside of what I've already been doing to get ready for what's coming. Like, do you have any advice?

Yeah, I'm making sure I can be the most successful ae.

You go first. Scott, you're closer to the ground on this.

I don't know how to give Ashley advice Anymore.

She already does everything that she's supposed to be doing, does well.

I think my advice would just be to make sure you protect your health and your head, you know, over. Over everything else. You already know that you're going to be good, you're good at everything you do. But we also know, you know, historically that we can burn ourselves out and get too tunnel visioned on something, put too much pressure on ourselves, expect too soon of immediate results. And you know, you don't have to be superhero. You're allowed to just be a human and have a good, you know, progression, a good ramp and a good successful career with it. It doesn't have to happen instantaneously. It might, and that would be great. But you know, don't beat yourself up too bad if it's a little rocky at the beginning, you know.

Yeah, this is. I'll give you a piece of tactical advice like in the sales role. And I agree with Scott on the mental health side of things.

I talked to a couple of AES and they did something very simple, kind of like what you've done of like, oh, that's really smart to always go to president's club. And one of the things they do is on every call, before the call, they do a real 30 minute call prep. And that means they write down each person, each title who's going to be on the call. Obviously the things that you're pretty sure are important to them based on the role. Right. Then they would write down the objections that they think that person might give them and then they would write down their response to that objection. So that by the time they get on the call, they've already rehearsed a little bit. Right. If they bring up competition, if they bring up pricing, you now have written out based on the perspective that you think that person's bringing. But it also, you know, it also gives you the ability to be flexible because maybe they won't bring up that objection. But then it also just makes a little bit easier because you can just relax your mind and to your point, have that conversation. Right. Just have the conversation that you like to talk about in the beginning. And I thought that was a really smart.

Way to do this. And I've done it on a couple of things and it's really, it's really helpful. It certainly helps me relax because my mind races all the time. So that's my piece of tactical sales advice.

I love that. Thank you.

Thanks for coming on the show, Ashley. We love seeing you and spending time with you and we'll see you live in person in Costa Rica in a couple months.

Heck, yeah. Thanks for having me. This was great. Miss you guys.

Miss you too.

Thanks, Ashley. Bye.