S3E33 - 3 Symptoms of Burnout with Emily Johnson

Foreign.

Hey, everybody, it is Richard Harris and Scott Lees. The end of July of 2022, and we are excited with another surfing sales podcast. Big shout out to our sponsors of outreach IO, who are doing Vidyard, Scratchpad and Sendosa. Right, Scott? Did I miss it?

Yeah, you got it, you got it. You tripped on the way, but you got it.

That's all right.

So.

And as everybody knows, we don't really edit or audit our shit, so, you know, it's all there.

That's actually, I think the only reason people listen to the show is to see how many times we screw up.

Exactly. So super excited to speak with Emily Johnson today. I'm going to let her explain a little bit more about what she does, obviously, but she is a burnout recovery and prevention coach, so we're going to have a different kind of conversation than our traditional sales conversation. I think we're going to do a deep analysis on Scott and his burnout issues.

Since he hasn't shaved his beard again in about six months. But, Emily, Emily, thanks for coming on. Thanks for coming to talk about a really important topic. And if you want to give people a little bit more about what you're doing, I know you got something coming up, so go ahead and tell them what's going on because I think it's really important. Say hello.

Hey, everyone. Thank you so much, Richard and Scott, for having me. I'm super excited to be here. I am a burnout recovery and prevention coach for high achievers, the go getters, the doers and the dreamers. I know that from experience. I am prone to burnout. So this is a passion project and just a passionate topic that I can talk about for hours. So I'm really excited to dive in a little deeper today.

Yeah, I think. I think that probably brings up the first question is how did you choose this? You know, or is it one of those things that chose you?

Oh, that's such a good question.

I.

To be honest, it chose me. So a little bit about my background. I was in corporate for years. I worked for one of the largest alcohol suppliers in the world. And I. It was great. It was super fun. But that career path wasn't aligned with my values. And it wasn't until a little bit later, working in the industry for a few years, I. I burned myself out on so many different levels, you know, not setting those boundaries. Events weekly, almost daily, and I just knew that this wasn't the path for me. And so I burnt out in that sense. And then I went back to school to get my holistic nutritionist degree. And you know, going from corporate making close to six figures to being a student again, I didn't anticipate the impact it would have on my mental health. Well, it was huge. And so that transition period of going from corporate to student to full time entrepreneur, that was just a complete roller coaster. And I'm sure there's a lot of people listening that can resonate with that. So during my time, you know, building my business as a nutritionist, that burnt me out as well. And then since my nutrition consulting business, it has pivoted to more burnout and mental health because, you know, I've grown that way.

Right. Like I'm gonna gotta go to therapy. All right, so you, the pattern is you throw, you throw yourself into everything deeply. Right. Without it.

Absolutely.

And so I guess the first question is, when did you kind of realize like, what was the moment where you're like, wait a minute, I'm just doing the same thing again? You know, was there, what was that aha moment for you?

Oh, that's a great question. To be honest, there wasn't really a mo. I mean, yeah, okay. There was a moment I was like, okay, I'm clearly a high achiever. I clearly put this crazy amount of pressure on myself to succeed, whether that was in my corporate job, whether that was a student or you know, being a full time entrepreneur again. And it kind of clicked. It was like, wow, I, I put this crazy amount of pressure on myself. Why do I do that? And you know, I think a lot of people do do that. Like the, the dreamers and the go getters, they, they put this pressure on themselves and they attach their success to their self worth. And that's what I was doing for years. And then once I kind of had that disconnect of I'm not my business, I'm not my career, I'm not an income number. Right. That's when it started to click for me. And I can now disconnect my success to my self worth. And that was the aha moment for me.

I'm waiting.

I was just thinking, how do you do that? Because I have never been able to do that. Yes, I would, I would say that my self worth is highly wrapped up in my productivity.

So most people are, I mean, you're not alone. Everyone feels this way and it's, it takes a lot of internal work. It takes a lot of reflection. It takes a lot of, you know, downtime and that awareness of, you know, maybe you don't succeed in something. Are you going to let that get you down or are you just going to learn from it and move forward? I think that to rewiring your success. So how you view success. So Scott, you might, you know, I'm assuming you're quite successful and you know, maybe you're feeling so high vibe because you are successful. But do you ever have days where maybe you don't sign a client or maybe you don't, you know, achieve a goal and are you going to let that make you feel like shit? Like, you know, if you can, can.

I. I'll pause you, pause you right there. So my response would be, yes, I will let it make me feel like shit. But not for very long. I seem to move through.

That feeling fairly quickly. I give myself like a 24 hour pity party grace period and then I think I move through it pretty well but I definitely will beat myself up for that, that 24 hour kind of period. So am I handling that? Is there a better way to handle that? Are you saying there's a way to not even have to go through that 24 hour pity party phase?

I think, I think 24 hours is acceptable. I think everyone's different, right? Like there isn't a right or wrong way. I think if you're letting that impact you for like a week and it's, you know, making an a negative impact on your work and you can't, like, you know, maybe you're in that freeze and you're just like, I can't move forward. And that's when it's a problem. But if you're blocked, yes. If you're feeling your emotions for 24 hours, I totally accept that. Like that's amazing. You should be feeling those emotions and letting yourself be upset. That's okay. But it's when it's impacting you so intensely that you burn yourself out for weeks that from that one thing, then that's when it's problematic.

That's me. So this is, this is why this is a good session. This could probably go about three hours. You can go deep on us, you.

Can bill us afterwards, Emily.

And you know, and I'm very open about sharing my mental health and my depression stuff and you know what I have to do.

But I'm sitting there listening to Scott and I guess I have a question for you, Scott. What happens if. I have two questions. One is during that pity party, how do you motivate yourself to get done? Because I know you get a lot of stuff done in general. And two, what happens if you have something Every day. So every day you're giving yourself a new pity party every 24 hours, right?

Well, I don't know. I'm just asking. Yeah, I mean, on the get shit done part, I sort of just feel like I have no alternative. So even if I wanted to be blocked and go couch lock myself and put a blanket over my head, I don't have that option. Whether I actually do or not is a different, different story. And I tell myself I don't have that option. I just have to do all these things and get them all done, regardless of how I feel.

To answer your question about how. What would happen if that happened every single day? That would be very difficult. I don't know the answer to that because I don't experience that. But I would imagine that would be really, really hard for me and would certainly change my approach.

So. So, Emily, let's flip it back to you. You know, you. You're hearing. You heard a little bit more about Scott in his thoughts. You have the concept of what I do. Anybody comes to you because you're a coach on this stuff, and they're like, this is where I'm at. I don't like it. I don't know what to do, though. Like, what's the. I mean, obviously the first step is acknowledging that. The second step is, you know, having. Making the phone call. Right, or having that. Where do people start? And I know it's different for everybody, but I'm just curious for people who are listening, who've maybe experienced this, if there's some advice you can share.

Yeah, I think it really starts with the foundations. As simple as this is, are you sleeping every night? Are you eating well? Are you eating processed foods? You know, you really have to have those best practices locked in to build that solid foundation. So then you can work on that mental health piece of awareness. And once we can start identifying, you know, your negative thought patterns that you're probably having every single day, if you are burnt out, then that's what we can. That's where the magic happens. It's the solid foundation practice and then it's the building that awareness. Piece of. What kind of thoughts are you feeding yourself every single day? You know, if you fail at something, are you being so mean to yourself for the next week and just catching yourself instead of just being on autopilot? That is going to be the first step.

And I are mean to ourselves all day long.

And when we're not, we're mean to each other.

Yeah, yeah. It will just lash out, right?

Yeah.

Can I simplify this? Can you help me simplify this? Give me three easy to notice signs that somebody is experiencing burnout.

Three easy symptoms, probably the most common ones are easily triggered. You know, you're really heightened. One little comment can just set you off.

And I would say you're feeling really exhausted and unfulfilled. That would be number two. And then number three is you're feeling like, lack of hope, you're feeling hopeless. This is when you're just, you know, you've been in a chronic state of stress and you just crash and burned. So if you've been experiencing that really long, extended period of stress and you've just, you're done, then that would be burnout.

Is that period of time.

Different for everybody? And how long.

How long would you be having to experience those three symptoms for you to really say, like, you're in burnout rather than just like having a bad moment or a bad day? Like, I don't think you would say to me, and maybe I'm wrong. I don't think you would say to me at the end of my 24 hour period, like, hey, you're in the middle of burnout. But if it continued for X number of days.

How do you calculate that?

I think that you just know internally, like, are you acting like yourself? You know, if you're usually a really positive, uplifted, you know, you know your baseline, right? Like, you know when you're feeling good, you know when you're not feeling good. I hope, like, at least you have that awareness of I'm not myself today. And if you're acting like not yourself for weeks, months, years. I personally experienced burnout on and off for like two years with my transition period. So. And I knew it was really bad, but it wasn't until I was out of it and I was reflecting that I saw how bad it actually was. So sometimes it's kind of hard to identify, but if you're feeling really unmotivated, you just don't care anymore. You're just depressed, you're anxious, you're very triggered, you get annoyed easily, then you might be experiencing burnout.

Are these.

Do people experience burnout the same way, regardless of all of our differences? Like, do men and women experience burnout differently? Do people at a later, more advanced stage of their career experience burnout differently than somebody who's at the earlier stages their career? Talk about that a little bit.

Yeah, that's a good question, I think. Let's say you're an entrepreneur and you're just starting out in your business, it's so easy to burn out because you're brand new to this. And the path to burnout is this. You, whether you're beginning your career or maybe you're, you know, later in your career, but you just got a new VP of sales job, you are going to be really excited, you're going to be really motivated. You're like, I can make a change, I can make a difference in whatever this project is. And then you're going to fill your time with being busy, with all of the things you're motivated about. And then that busyness can be turned into really tired and you might forget your why, like why did I start this new journey? And then from there it'll turn to, you're either going to keep choosing again, like, this is my passion, this is my path, I'm so excited, or you're going to burn out. Most people burn out because it just gets too overwhelming. They forget to rest, they forget to prioritize their mental health or physical health. But in terms of where in your career, I think it just depends on the project, the person. It's not really a one size all fits approach. It's really holistic in the sense where it varies. But I think the more established you are, the more pressure you're going to put on yourself and the more you're going to attach your self worth to that success piece and you might feel like imposter syndrome. Am I able to be here? You know, am I capable of actually doing this job? I think there's a lot of different layers when you're later in your career. You know, you have a lot more pressure, a lot more eyes on you versus, you know, you're 23, you just got your first sales job.

Scott, do you think you've ever had burnout?

Oh yeah, I listening to Emily talk, I have for sure. I think it happens to me usually about six months before I would change jobs.

Yeah.

So I would go through the phase of like, I'm brand new, this is exciting, I'm a man on a mission type of thing. The first year would be, you know, all fun and games. The second year would start to be good, but like a little bit of hell. And then I'd enter year three and I would experience a lot of the stuff Emily's talking about, like this kind of sucks. These things that used to bring me pleasure don't anymore. I now dread going to this or doing that. And I would try to grip it, white knuckle it if you will, for as long as possible. And I'd last six more months and probably everybody around me could see it. And I probably knew even though I didn't, wasn't smart enough to label it as burnout. And then I'd end up leaving and then that cycle would probably start itself, you know, all over again.

So, because I know Scott.

Part of the challenges and I've experienced him going through this and you know, the good thing is that Scott has a very strong network of people that he can lean on like this. And I can lean on him when I feel it too.

Sometimes that burnout is caused by our desire for success and our bosses and leadership not getting it and, or thinking they've got this solved now, even though that's what they brought us in to do. How do you coach someone with that difficult boss, right. Like you have put in the hard work, you've done all these things, you know, is the answer just quit. Which I think Scott's probably figured out at this point is what he should have done each of those times. But I, but I am not advisable.

For everybody, by the way.

No, not advisable, but I, but I know people experience this like part of the burnout can be the work related and can be the balance of work and personal and all those things. But sometimes that trigger isn't the job itself, it's the people around you. Right. And some people can't quit. They can't. Like I got a wife, I've got kids, I got insurance, the economy starting to tank. What do I do? Any suggestions for those kinds of folks?

Yeah, and this might be. Not sure this is the answer you want to hear, but this is when resilience really comes in. And if you're working on your mental health, if you're managing your stress in a way that works for you in a mindful way, then that outside noise of the boss or the outside noise of the money or whatever is causing that stress. You're going to be handling it a lot better with resilience. So you should be. So I teach prevention, right? So before we get to that breaking point of pushing through, I want you to be working on prioritizing your mental health, giving yourself downtime to be with your thoughts, be comfortable being alone, you know, having a dedicated time every single morning before you open your laptop, before you open your phone, give yourself an hour of just you time. And that's really going to fill you up and that's going to promote resilience. So when you are in those stressful situations with a Shitty boss, or you're really over your job. You can handle them in a way that is going to be healthy for you and you're going to feel stronger, right? Resilience is the. Is just being able to overcome difficult situations. And if you're a fragile person in that scenario of a shitty boss, you're doomed. So by working on your mental health, managing your stress in a good way, then, you know, you'll be able to be more clear, like, okay, this isn't the job for me. I'm not going to have a breakdown about it, but this isn't the boss for me. I'm going to start applying to new jobs, do what I have to do to get myself out of the situation, and you're going to feel a lot more stable with that resilience piece locked in.

I think we just found the title of what to do when you have a shitty boss.

Scott, I had this trouble, right? Like, I, I remember the thought of sitting down even for five minutes with no TV on. This is when I was single and, you know, going through my own experiences. The thought of sitting by myself and just letting my mind do whatever it wants to do scared the out of me. Like I couldn't sit and be present with myself. Scott, can you do that? Can you sit down and do that?

You're on mute. Oh, there it is. I'm on mute.

I really, I'm not on mute. I really struggle with doing that in a formal way. So if you were to tell me right now, like, hey, Scott, go into the middle of the living room and just sit there and turn everything off, I would struggle big time. But I don't need constant distraction like I've. For me, at least, I feel like, okay, when I'm walking my dogs, I'm just alone with my own thoughts. When I'm cooking, I'm alone with my own thoughts. Well, I took. I was on the airplane yesterday for like seven hours. I was alone with my own thoughts. I wasn't working on my laptop. So whether I'm full of shit or not, and I can tell Richard's look is like, this is bullshit. You can't do it. I feel like that I have these kind of meditative moments during the course of my day, but I really struggle to sit in this formal way and be like, turn the lights off. Kumbaya. Meditate for five to 10 minutes straight. Like, I'm not good at that.

That's what I got good at. No, I was, I was smirking because I was going to try and Jump in and be snarky and say, yeah. When I'm hanging out with Richard, I'm alone in my own thoughts. Like.

Do those count, though? Am I lying to myself, Emily?

No. The fact that you can just be on a walk with your dogs, like, with nothing in your ears, you're just alone with your own thoughts, I consider that mindfulness.

Wait, hold on, Scott. If you go for a walk with your dogs, are you listening to music or are you really.

No, no, no. Definitely not.

Yeah, yeah, that's definitely form of mindfulness to me. Like, I'll be cooking in the kitchen with my own thoughts. And that, to me, is so therapeutic. Just to be. You're focusing on something. You're present, you're in that moment. That's mindfulness. You don't have to meditate to be mindful. Everyone has their own version of mindfulness. My mom loves playing tennis, and she's like, when I'm on the court, I'm super mindful. That's me meditating. Just because people think you have to meditate every day for five minutes to get the benefits, just practicing, being aware of your thoughts, that's enough.

That's one of the reasons why sports were such a good outlet for me. It's impossible to think about all the bullshit going on in your life when I was playing tennis, like your mom, or when I was playing soccer, or when I'm surfing. Like, when you're surfing, Richard, you're not thinking about all sorts of other things. No. If your mind wanders off, you're going to crash and wipe out on the wave. So you're very present and mindful in that particular moment. And most people wouldn't consider that, you know, meditative or whatever, but it's mindful. The best quote of the day so far, I think, from Emily, is you don't have to meditate to be mindful. I love that.

Yeah. Yeah, that's the one.

Makes it accessible for everybody as opposed to this unattainable thing of like, oh, for 30 minutes in the middle of the room. Totally do that.

Totally.

Yeah. I think that. I think it's also about redefining that word meditation, to your point, Scott. Like, it's. Your version is different than mine. Right. Like, I actually do like to sit for 10 minutes and do that stuff. So.

When you do have someone. Right. So you've gotten them to the point, Emily, of, okay, they're starting to work on their diet, and they're starting to work on creating some space for themselves and those kinds of things. You know, aside from a meditation or, you know, a little exercise or by the way, going for a walk is exercise, folks.

Definitely.

What are the other kind of things that you're like, oh, have you tried something like this?

Yeah. So I think how you start your day every morning is going to be one of the easiest and most impactful ways to tap into.

That energy that you need to have that resilience to manage your stress in a mindful way. You know, a lot of people, professionals, they wake up, they go straight to their phone, they go straight to their email, they go straight to their laptop, and they're just on autopilot. They're not even thinking about the impact that that's having on their mental health for that day. So if there was going to be one takeaway from this whole episode, it would be to create a morning routine for yourself that feels good for you. And you may have heard this already before, might seem cliche to you, but truly it is so powerful to be to just allow yourself you time. It's like, would you let 100 people into your bedroom right when you wake up? Absolutely not. It's the same thing with opening your phone, being bombarded with all those emails, those text messages. Give yourself that space. That's you time. And the more you time you give yourself, the more resilience you're going to have, the more calm, stable, mindful you're going to feel. But if you're constantly being bombarded with texts, with just people attacking you in that sense of this is your energy, you should be protecting that energy. So having that morning routine locked in, Even if it's 20 minutes of silence or 20 minutes of just making your coffee, sitting alone for 20 minutes, or if you really want to get fancy, you can journal, you can do some gratitude practices, you can just free write whatever is on your mind. Affirmations are great. There's so many different things you could do. That's what I do. I'm a big journaler in the morning. And you'll see the power it has of starting your day on that positive foot versus letting all those people walk into your room while you're still in bed.

I love that phrase of like, don't let a hundred people walk into your room, which is what you do when you open your phone. Like, that was really, really good.

Because I mean, the visual of that, the visual of that just instantly gave me so much anxiety.

Totally. I'm like, oh, that's exactly what I do because I don't even get out of bed. I'M like, in bed with my phone. I'm looking for something to do. Like, I just woke up and I'm looking for a problem to solve or something, etc. I think the, I think the hardest thing I'm coming to grips with in the advice is the idea of taking an hour in the morning to get started. Like, I, I don't know about other people, but, like, Like, I'm sitting here going, I could do that for five minutes. I can go make my coffee, just sit there, stare out the window for five minutes with my coffee. An hour is overwhelming to me, but that's me. Like, I don't. I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying, like, And I'm sure you hear this from people. Oh, my God, an hour. Holy. You know.

Well, can I ask, is it because you have meetings happening really early in the morning or you just are, like, in problem solving mode, you want to start work, you're excited? Like, I'm curious why? Why not?

One, I think is work. Two is, I have two kids, so kind of got to get them going.

Right.

Three, this is probably the biggest one. It's habit. I mean, let's think, let's face it, since 2007, when the iPhone came out, I don't think. I can't remember the last time I woke up in the morning and didn't look at my phone within two minutes of my eyes opening. Do you know what I mean? Like, that's like, I heard you go, oh, Scott.

Yeah. Oh, Like, I mean, I'm not amazing at this, but I'm better than that.

Yeah, so. So I think that's. But I also, now, again, Emily, I'm going to keep going. I also know I'm how I'm wired in the sense I have adhd, my meds aren't in. By the time I wake up in the morning. I, you know, I'm constantly battling my mental health of negativity and depression, which, you know, I'm in a good spot on. So I think I have some internal things going on. And on the other side of it is maybe I'm letting that be my crutch of why I allow it. Right. Maybe it's like, oh, well, you're just allowing it to happen because you have. You think this is the reason. Like, I'm looking for something to blame rather than just say, richard, don't pick up your phone.

I mean, if an hour seems overwhelming to you, Richard, why don't you start with five minutes and just allow yourself Five minutes and see, see how that makes you feel. Just experiment, you know. And I'm not saying the morning routine is for everyone. Maybe the night time is your time to have you time or, you know, maybe it's the middle of the day.

Yeah, that, that's. I'm glad to hear you say that because that tends to be mine. Right. Like once the kids are sort of fed and they're doing their thing, you know, I can take a few. Like even last night I was like, I was gone all day and it was like 10 o' clock and people left. We had friends over for dinner and stuff and I just told my wife Kathy, I'm like, I need to go sit in the other room for 10 or 15 minutes.

Yeah.

And that being said, I stared at my phone, read stuff and read the news, but it, that was a, in my head, that was what was going to relax me.

Yeah, I mean, you know what, I'm not here to tell you what's going to be relaxing for you. I'm just simply here to make some suggestions. And if you did want to experiment with, you know, five, 10 minutes of just sitting alone, observing, you know, what's really easy to, to kind of start this practice is just going outside and observing nature. That can put you in a really nice kind of Zen mood and tuning into your senses. So telling yourself this is even easier than sitting alone for five minutes. So go outside, Summer, it's sure beautiful wherever you are. And just tune into your five senses and tell, think in your head, I can see three things, I can taste three things, I can hear three things. Like I can feel three things. You know, tuning into that, like physical, it's a little bit easier than just sitting alone in your thoughts. So that's another way too.

I can see through things, I can hear. Like that's kind of cool. Like, and by the way, I was not saying, you know, I was saying because that's what I was experiencing and I know that it works for other people. Be like, yeah, an hour's great, I got time for that. Like, so I'm just trying to sort of one for myself. I'm being selfish. But also I know listeners, some will be like me, some will be like Scott, some will be like you. And it's sort of different. So I want to make sure those different ideas are coming across.

This is cool. So I'm gonna, we're gonna flip it to you for a couple of minutes, like any kind of questions you want to ask us. So, you know, what do you want to know?

Yes. Okay. So in your line of work, how do you manage a stressful situation? Like do you have a go to thing that you do? Are you still working on how you manage stress? I'm curious how you handle a really high stress scenario.

Want to go first, Richard?

Yeah. I mean, depending on it, I'll go to my wife. I think one of the things for me when I hear something from a prospect or a customer and they're unhappy about something, Scott knows me well enough and I'm willing to be a Richard and that's my first instinct and just go off on them. And I've learned with the help of Kathy and then Scott, once I met him, of taking a breath.

I wait 24 hours before I send the email. Now, like that's the one thing. And then I never send like business decision emails on a Friday because I don't want them to linger. I never ask if the deal, even if they said we're going to close it on Friday, I email them on Thursday and if I don't hear back from them, I don't contact until Monday. I don't want to, I don't want to get a no on a Friday afternoon. So some of these things are like my coping mechanisms. But Kathy's really good at it. Scott's very good at it. When I have a. I don't know how to do this or figure it out. Um, and then I do have my meditation that I focus on probably four or five days a week now, not every day. So that's how I handle it.

I, I think that I.

I tend not to get like super, super high or super super low. I feel like I'm always like middlingly stressed all the time. And so one of the ways that I deal with it is I just kind of expect it. I have, my belief is a lot of the stress and anxiety comes from people thinking that everything is supposed to be calm and chill all the time. And I don't have that expectation. So I don't get rattled by all, all that much. And I think I mentioned earlier, no matter if I'm stressed or sad or whatever, like I still have shit to do that I have to get done for myself, for my family, for clients, for friends, whatever. So I just kind of power through. The other thing that I do is I try to have things to look forward to. If you don't have anything to look forward to, like a trip or an event or something like that, I find that, that kind of challenging. So if I get super stressed, I Got to go find an outlet somehow. So whether that's like a surf trip or go visit friends or go to a game or a concert or something, in those moments that I'm super stressed, I do try to take a look around and be like, I need to go do something. I need to find something to do that has nothing to do with whatever is bothering me right now.

And then I reach out to lots of people. Not like one or two. I reach out to lots I'm very good at, I think at least of just like spreading my tentacles out there and asking lots of people for their take on whatever thing is going on, and then just hearing people's opinions or feedback on stuff. I think I'm good at waiting for the ones that resonate the most with me, and then I take action very quickly. So that's kind of how I deal with it. Now. I want to know why you're asking that.

Those are great. Those are amazing. I would love to add that. Having that community piece locked in like you were saying, Scott, reaching out to people, I think that's so important for preventing burnout. Knowing you have that support system to be able to chat to, to lean on, to ask advice, to chat things out, that's going to be really helpful in your. In your journey of burnout. So. So sounds like both of you guys have a great approach. Um, you know, clearly you wouldn't be where you are if you were. Didn't know how to handle stress or make moves. So sounds like you guys are doing pretty good.

Well, I think the. One of the things that is helpful is it take. For me, at least I could take my own kind of personal hat off. And it's good to get a refresher or learn more about this kind of topic because you want to be able to spot it in others. You want to be able to help other people deal with it and get through it. I mean, if you're managing a group of people, even if you have things, you know, quote unquote, all figured out, they might not. And so you have to reach down and help all of them in order to make their world a little bit easier and a little bit lighter. If you're looking for them to be operating at their, you know, kind of peak potential. Right. So it's important, I think, for any leader out there to, if they're listening to this episode, not just to say, well, I have this all figured out. It's important to say how many people on my team don't have this all figured out as of Right now And do they have the resources and the help around them to start to figure it out beyond just me doing it for them? So that's one thing that comes to mind for me as, as I was listening to you say. That doesn't matter to me that maybe Richard and I have it figured out fairly well. What about everybody else?

Yeah, that's such a great perspective too, as a leader. Thank God there needs to be more leaders like that caring about their employees, mental health, their well being. That's to me the most important thing I think for a leader to just have that compassion, that empathy and be that support system for them.

Now, what else do you want to ask us? Anything else?

Maybe something more fun? What, what do you do for fun?

Well, I was just in northern Michigan this weekend. All places wake surfing and hanging out with friends on Torch Lake, kind of an hour north of Traverse City. So I like to do that kind of stuff, get out in nature, go surf in the ocean, go wake surf on the lake and that kind of stuff. And then every now and then I'll play some golf with Richard and other, other people like that. So try to stay active, get outside a little bit. What about you, Rich?

Yeah, the same. You know, I'm definitely more on the golfing side.

I spend a lot of time with my kids for some reason. That's a really good thing for me. Although it sometimes makes me wonder if I'm, you know, avoiding my own by doing that.

You know, my wife and our kids went out for a week, so my wife.

Yeah, I was gonna say that's good, you know.

You know, doing date night with my wife, which we need to get better at. But we know that's important and we spend a lot of time with friends. When we built our house, in a way during the pandemic, ironically that we now have a big fire pit and built in grill and TV outside. So we can find ways to either do something ourselves or have friends over and be supportive to that kind of stuff. So I've gotten better about exercising, gotten better about my food, which does make me feel good. You know, Scott knows my struggles with weight and food and stuff like that. So movies are good. Like I, I enjoy those kinds of things. And I've been a ferocious reader lately. Like I do a lot of reading, which is really helpful in a lot of ways. So those are my places.

Amazing. What are a book, what's the book you're reading right now? Richard and Scott?

The book I'm reading right now is called no Rules Rules which is about how Netflix, I mean, a little bit of their story, origin story, but really about the origin story of their culture and how they, you know, they don't do expense reports, they don't do, like how they actually have a successful, you know, take as much vacation as you want policy and, you know, explain why it fails in other places and, you know, really giving, really empowering their people. So I find that one really nice and refreshing because I'm like, oh my God, that would have been great. And some places I did work, I did experience that. But that's the one book I'm reading. I did. I don't even know if Scott knows this. I went on a kick this summer and I probably because I never read them in high school, I think I read four John Steinbeck novels. I never read them. Fell in love with his story and his imagery. And it's, you know, I'm in Northern California, so it's all right here in Salinas. And Scott's been to our place down in the beach and there's a river mouth and I think that's the river mouth he talks about in the, in the book. Like it's crazy. So that became like a really nice book series for me.

So I've been reading this book called the road by Carmack McCarthy talking. It's very much a resilience story. It's about a dad and his son kind of wandering around through post apocalyptic world. This is the random things that I read while Richard's reading business books and.

No, but I want to read that. What is it called?

It's called the road by Carmack McCarthy. I'll send it to you.

Yeah, I've heard of it. My dad read that book and I think it's a movie too.

It is.

I only just found that out yesterday that it was a movie. Now I need to watch the movie. Yeah, cool.

Yeah.

Okay, well, we need to, we need to wrap this up. But Emily, this is fun and you know, a shout out to our sponsors of outreach, IO, good yard, scratch pad and Sendoso. As folks are working on their remaining 20, 22 and 23 plans, please go support them because those are the kind of things that will help you hit those goals. And we appreciate their support. We want to support them as well. So, Emily, where can people get in touch with you and also tell them about this event that's coming up?

Yeah, thanks for asking. So you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm Emily Johnson, kind of a common name, so type burnout recovery coach after and Then I should be right there. Also aligned with Emily J is my website. I'm also on Instagram. You can see me in a more fun, exciting light at Align with Emily J. And I'm hosting a master class on burnout. Overcoming it and how to prevent it, how to identify. If you're going through burnout and it's free, it's going to be really fun. It's in two weeks, so we can link the masterclass. Sign up in the show notes.

So where's. When is it going to be? What date?

It's. It's going to be August 9th. It's a Tuesday at 6:30 Pacific Time.

Cool.

But if you can't. Sorry, if people can't attend, you'll get a recording. So that was what I was going to ask. Yeah.

Will it be recorded? Right.

So absolutely.

Good things. By the way, have you ever been to Costa Rica?

No, but I was just in Sayulita in Mexico. It's a surf town. Scott, have you been.

Oh, I know exactly where that is. You nailed that one. That place is phenomenal.

Yeah.

Are you a surfer?

I've been. I grew up in California, so kind of comes with the territory. And my brother is a huge surfer. He lives right across the beach from Ocean beach in San Francisco. He goes every single morning. I think he would really resonate with you, Scott. You guys look really similar and have a really similar vibe. But. But yeah, I. It's in my family, but I'm not like, you know, I can hold my own.

I'm asking because we think we should come. You should come to our surf and sales event. So. And maybe lead a session on Burnout. Like, I think it'd be ideal.

So when is it? That'd be fun.

Well, we're currently sold out of all of our events for the rest of the year, but in the spring of 2023, maybe that's something to take a look at.

Someone will bail. They always do.

Oh, we might have a cancellation. You never know.

Yeah. So you can go to surf and sales.com to check it out. But I think people would, you know, one, I think you'd enjoy it. But two, I think people would. I think you'd be able to.

It's a perfect topic for a setting like that, to be honest.

Totally. That's what I was thinking. So, yeah.

Love it.

Yeah. Emily, thanks so much. Appreciate the time and thank you. And I, you know, really, this was good. Like, I don't need to go to therapy this week.

Thank you. Best compliment ever.

All right, we'll see everybody next time. Thanks.

It's been great. Thank you so much, guys. Thank you.

Bye.

Bye.