S4E2 - Small Wins = Big Wins with Matt Ferguson

Hey, everybody. It is Richard Harris. Scott Lees with season four, episode two of the Circle sales podcast. We've made it four years. It's probably the second longest relationship Scott's ever had in his life with anything.

Definitely the longest work relationship, that's for sure.

Unless you call our relationship a work relationship. I don't know. But. But. Super excited to be here. Fun announcement. We are part of the HubSpot podcast network, so we appreciate HubSpot. And we actually just saw that we were named the number two sales podcast in 2022 for salespeople to listen to, which is.

I can hear the crowd chanting now. Overrated.

Yeah, exactly. Completely. So how do we pull that off, Scott?

I have no idea.

We pulled them. All that. All the humor aside, super excited to have Matt Ferguson here, who is a sales manager coach, but also means he's going to have to understand sales. We're going to talk to him very specifically. The company is with his MDF coaching and consulting, and he currently lives in Phoenix, Arizona. Now, here's part. Scott, you missed this. We were talking before you got here about how he got to Phoenix. Just so happens Matt's a retired professional golfer. Is that correct?

I. I was a. So there's two different types of pro golfers, right? There's the kind that you see on tv, Right. And then there's the kind that, like, teach and work at a private club or a public course. So I was. I was not on tv.

Got it.

So I. I worked at country club.

That's all right, dude. We will gladly come to your country club and take any advice.

That's how.

When. When this. When the club out here got pitched to me, which is Mirabelle Club, which is way up in North Scottsdale, it was like, called the Ritz Carlton of golf. So if you ever get a chance, you should play there.

It's a good thing we know somebody who can help us get a cheap drink.

My best friend's still ahead pro. So.

Yeah. So that. That is cool. And, you know, the best part about golf is, I don't know, we haven't played in a while is that it's the one sport I can actually meet Scott at sometimes.

So this is why Richard likes it.

Because he can beat me. Like, the only thing I can beat Scott.

I'm working on that. I'm working on it.

Yeah. So, Matt, thanks so much for coming on and having a good time. I know we're gonna ask some questions around, like, golf and sales and management and leadership and that kind of stuff. Before we do that, like, give people a little bit of context of you. Like, where were you in sales? You know, how did you even get to this role? Because golfing is a profession in whatever capacity is a very.

Different.

Venue of what we're doing. Not to say the concepts aren't the same. You're teaching and you're coaching and that. Like, that's the same. But how do you get into sales?

So.

I'm out in Phoenix, and a guy from my country club in Cleveland was coming out to Las Vegas for. Actually, it was the NCAA tournament, so it was probably like 12 or 13 years ago. And went to Vegas, met him, and he was working. He was with his boss. And his boss kept talking about how much money they made, you know, like, that's all he talked about. And, like, he was talking about 360, 400 grand. And I'm just sitting there listening, right? And I said to my buddy, I'm like, jesus, Joe, how much money do you make? You know, I knew what they were selling at the time. And he's like, well, I don't make that much, but I make about 250. Well, I was making. As a golfer professional, you work every weekend, you work every holiday. Like, you work every day. And I'm struggling to make $50,000, you know, so I was asking Joe, I was like, geez, you know, I. I love the club that I work. I actually like being a golf pro. But as I look into my future in this profession, I kind of know how it works. And there's only so many, you know, great jobs. And he goes, well, the guy that I was with actually coming out to take over the Phoenix office so I can get you an interview. And I said, okay, great.

Go down, interview. And they hired me. I had no idea what I was getting into. Okay? Three months later, the guy that hired me, right, that came over to take over the office, he's packing. He was the director of the office. He's packing his stuff, right? Packing up his office. And I'm like, oh, this isn't good. And I said, geez, Brandon, what's going on? And he goes, I'm. I'm leaving companies. I'm moving back to Chicago. I'm like, okay, well, this is an interesting decision. About three weeks later, corporate came in and basically shut down that office. So the office went from, let's say, 60 people to 12, right? So here. Here I am. I got out of sales, or I got out of golf to get into sales. And three and a half, four months later, I gotta have no job thrown.

Immediately into chaos, right?

And here's. I'll never forget these words. Okay? So they send us an email. They send us an email. And you either stayed upstairs or you went in the basement. Right? Because it was. It was a huge office. So I go down in the basement. VP of sales, who I've never met before, walks in, he looks at everybody in the office and he goes, you all have a nervous look on your face, and you should. I'm like, okay. He goes, here's the good news. You all have jobs. It's just not here. And then they told us there are managers here from Chicago to Chicago and Atlanta.

If you choose, you can talk to them and we'll give you a job and we'll relocate you. Or you can take, you know, severance and HRS here and you can talk to severance. It was a Friday. Don't have to make the decision today, but, you know, take the weekend and think about it. Well, I'm in Phoenix. It's October, like 31st, so the weather's just getting nice. And I just remember, I'm like, for one, I. I didn't even really like that job. So I. So I took my severance and that was, that was my, that was my introduction to sales.

That was like just about everybody else, who knows.

I was just thinking, that's happened to a lot of people, I'm sure.

Yeah.

Well, I, I actually think if it hasn't happened to you. You know what I mean?

If you've been. You're in the minority. If it hasn't happened.

Yeah. I mean, I feel like you're just, you're, you're. It's, it's bound to happen, actually.

Yeah. I just like the fact they, like, sent you to the basement. It was a big building. There were probably multiple floors and they sent you to the basement.

Huge, huge sentence to the base like that.

That's old school. Scott would have done something like that.

I would have had my own office in the basement. No distractions down there.

Yeah. So why stick with it, though?

Well, so here's. Here's the one thing that I did get out of. Here's the one thing that I got out of being there. And I was there a short period of time, but I had to go to two weeks of training. You know, there was one week and then there was a. Then there was another. Right. And it was. It was in Chicago. I thought the cool part of what that training was, was the company would bring in guys. That kind of helped start the company. And there was over a thousand reps at the time I was there. And I always thought that was kind of cool. I was like, well, that'd be kind of cool to start a company, you know, or help start a company, be one of the first sales reps. And then a competitor interviewed me, and this small little startup interviewed me. And when I walked in, we were kind of in a closet. It was such a small office. And I swear, I think I sat in a lawn chair, you know, And.

I looked around and I'm like, well, if I want to help kind of start a company, I think I got to take a chance and go with this company. And I'm glad I did, because I was there five years. We had started at zero revenue, grew 150% year over year. I was there five years and ended up growing the company close to $10 million. So that's kind of how I kind of started my career and fell in love with sales.

You, Maybe I'm paraphrasing, but it. It seemed like you sort of said you got into sales for the money. And I don't. I don't think that there's anything wrong with that. My. My question about that is, why do you think that's become kind of taboo or negative to. To just say, listen, I got in it because salespeople make a lot of money. Why is that such a negative thing now?

Or is it.

Maybe it's not. And it's just. I don't. My circle, you know.

Scott, it's funny you say that, because here's. Here's the thing. Like, yeah, I think I look. I think I looked at it.

And I thought.

Because. Because I'm really not about, like, money, you know, But. But I don't know, Matt, you said.

That these guys are making 350 and you were making 50, and you're like, I got to do with guys do.

You'Re actually 100, right? Like, I've literally never thought about that in the last 13, 14 years, however long it's been. Right? But like you, I. I looked at it like I'm working my butt off, right, to make no money. And the chance of me getting, like, a top head professional job, you know, making 150 to 200 is very small because the way the golf business was going wasn't great. So I think I looked at it as, man, I could have weekends off and I. Heck, if even if I could make a hundred, I'm doubling what I was making now. But I don't look at that as negative. Like, especially when I was interviewing reps, I would ask them, like, hey, are you. Why are you in sales? And this and that. I mean, I actually liked the people that, oh, I'm in it to make as much money as I can. I just don't think looking on the behaviors over the years, like, people really do want to make that much money, because if they did, they just figure it out and work a little harder. You know what I mean? So I don't. To answer your question, I don't really know. I think a lot of people think they want a lot of money, but either don't know how to get it or, you know, are lying to themselves.

Yeah.

I mean, it does on some level come back to, like, oh, you say you want to do this, but you're not willing to do the things necessary to get that. Right. But I think that a lot of people are looked down on a little bit, or it's frowned upon to just flat out say, listen, I was making 40 grand as a golf pro or a teacher or whatever, and I got into sales because my friend Richard was making a couple hundred thousand dollars. And I think it's even more frowned upon for people who are doing Fairly well making 350, like your friend Matt was, who then say, like, well, I want to take this new role and move up, because here I can make 500. And it's. It's interesting. Now, there seems to be a big negative connotation around that, and I've never really understood that. Maybe Richard understands it. I don't.

Hold on. There might be a deeper thing I just thought about here in this conversation, because I. I know. I kind of understand where you're going is the negativity. Would the negativity be more on the money that you're making.

Or the fact that you're in sales? Because I think sometimes, you know, people that think they're in sales, it's like a negative thing. Like, I've worked. I've worked for a company before where, like, the sales reps were just looked at as almost like a bad word, you know?

Yeah.

I mean, I think that might be a little bit more of, you know.

I was talking more from a perspective of, like, sales people talking about other salespeople. It's like, no, you know, no, no, Scott, you don't talk about it like you're in it for the money. You're in here to help people. You're in here to solve problems.

So, yeah, like, yeah, it's. It's inappropriate to talk about greed, right?

And it's kind of like. But we would all change jobs if someone paid us double, wouldn't we? Like, everybody's got a number.

I mean, Matt would probably go be a golf pro right now if somebody gave him 350k.

I wouldn't, but I'd go be a golfer.

I'd be a shitty golfer. I'd be the guy like, hey, don't. Here, watch Richard. Don't do that. Do it this way.

I'd be the gong of golf, right? Like, here, watch Richard. Here's how he's gonna. Here's how you should improve.

I think I believe. You know, I read. I went through a huge Steinbeck reading frenzy this summer. And in Grapes of Wrath, he dedicates this entire chapter to the car salesman ripping off the Okies. Oh, the tires are great. And this. And there's any like. And if you read the chapter, it's fast talking, it's really slick and just, you know, you gotta take this car. Oh, yeah, you're gonna be great out there. And I just had this belief that so many people were forced to read that book for the last 50, 60 years that it just built that in of the car salesman. Like, I don't know very many people who haven't read that book in high school, right. You know, in, in. In the worlds that I live in. And I think it just lasted for people. I also think it was probably true back then, but. And I think it's still true now, but I think, how did it get out to the masses about sales and having this negative thing? I think that was a big piece of it. If nobody read that book, then it's somewhere there in their head.

I don't know. I want to know. I want to shift gears and know more about what Matt does. He's teaching sales managers how to be better sales managers, better leaders, presumably. What is one thing straight away that every new sales manager needs to come to terms with and execute.

That?

Well, let's. Let's talk about most people that get promoted. Most people to get promoted are top performers, right? And I think they take. At least, you know, I took the job. I wanted to help people, right? I wanted to help people get better. But I think the pitfall that I fell into in the beginning was.

I was going to save the world and I was going to turn everybody into me, right? And I was going to make everybody a top performer just like I was.

And then about three or four months in.

I. I was like, holy cow. Like, is it Is it me? Like, am I, am I bad? Am I a bad manager? Because I can't get people to perform like I could.

And I was subjective. I was emotional.

And I just struggled a lot with.

Was very hard for me. But like, you can't, you can't make everybody into me. Like, I'm, I'm me. I'm the way that I am, right? And everybody needs to be coached different.

So that is the number. I had a list of.

10 of the biggest mistakes sales managers make. I can't remember which one. That one. But don't try and duplicate yourself as a new manager because.

Everybody'S different.

So that, that was a big awakening for me.

What do you.

So, you know, we talked a little bit offline of that. You really focus on, on new sales managers, right? And I agree with you. Like, we all got promoted because we were good at closing and we were good at handling objections and we were good at following the process and making it happen and all this stuff. And maybe we helped with some interviews, right? Maybe we helped define the new process. Maybe we did a little bit of the training when someone new came on board, like, showed that. A little bit of acumen, right?

The one thing that's never taught, and I'm curious to how you think about it and teaches nowhere were we ever taught before we got promoted. Well, here's how you manage conflict resolution with two salespeople. Here's how you deal with territory issues. Here's how you write a comp plan. Here's how you handle the person whose cat and, you know, significant other broke up with them and took the cat with them and like, just all that soft skill stuff, you know. Any suggestions for people who are like, okay, here's how you're gonna have to navigate some of those things because I don't think prepared for it.

It's. It's funny because, you know, I don't know about you guys, but Scott, when you were promoted, or Richard, when you were promoted the first time, did you receive any.

You know what I mean?

Any training, you just kind of get thrown in there. Absolute.

Absolutely not.

No, no. Look, unless you went to like Xerox or somewhere or maybe Salesforce, right? You get that stuff. But not in the SB world. Like, not in where most people are, you know.

You know what's fun? You know what's funny about that is two weeks ago I had a meeting with somebody. They have over 14, 000 employees, right? New manager.

I mean, you guys would know who the company was. And I was. And I asked him, hey, what's been the biggest surprise for you so far? And he's like, actually, there's no training. When I asked about what the training was, they told me, well, we're trying to put something together, but for right now, you're on your own.

Yep.

And that led me to throw something out. I did a poll on LinkedIn and then I've been, I've done some surveys too, but eight, over 82% of people have told me that in their current management position, they've received little to no training.

Right?

So like, you get thrown into this position that's completely different from what you were doing, right? Because now you're responsible for everybody else and now your paycheck relies on them. Right. And there's no training. And then we wonder why people like I struggled, you know, for at least a year or two, you know, just trying to figure it all out.

What was the first thing you figured out.

For making everything objective?

What is that?

So.

So here's what I like that I have, I have two Personas and managers that I use and I have a slide that I, that I use and teach off of. And I call one a pipeline manager, okay. And then I call other a structure manager. Okay. You're gonna spend time in both. Okay. But like when I started, I was a, I was a pipeline manager. And that's just my word for it, right? But I, all I was worried about was where everything was chasing and help people close deals and try to hit a number. Okay. When I look in the structure manager, the structure manager is more on, you know, sales math, structure, process, putting people in the right place to win, you know, understanding where everything is so you can make minor changes. But when I, when I talk about objective, like I like to lay out the whole, all the numbers, all the math, right? And look at, all, right, we have 10 sales reps, we have 15 sales rep, whatever it is, like what is the number, right? Like are my expectations, right?

And kind of manage off of that, right? Because I want to take the argument out of everything, make all the numbers public, make them all transparent, right? So there is no argument. And it's all black and white. And then I can manage and coach and improve people, you know, off those numbers. So when I, when I say objective, it's more black and white, right? To what the data says versus subjective. Oh, I think that's, I think that's the way it should be.

I think sales managers are, they're just like, are in innately adverse to coaching and training. And getting in the weeds.

Yeah. You're nodding your head yes for anybody who's.

Oh, I was waiting for him to answer.

Yeah, I mean, I, I had a couple conversations in the last few days.

And people were asking for help in a leadership role. And I found myself saying, well, that's your job.

Get in the trenches and, and coach them and help them. And I mean, one, one particular group I'm thinking of had never done any role plays before with their reps and practice their pitch and things like that. What is going on that a top performer is getting promoted into a sales manager role? Or maybe not a top performer, Maybe somebody who's been in sales management a while and they're not doing some of those basic blocking and tackling things. Why is that happening?

Here's the reason that I think now.

I think people think managers and I've had managers that do this before. I've had CEOs that have done this before where they think. A good question to ask people like, hey, how can I help you? Where do I need help? Right? The manager should know where they need help and help them. Right? But if you're not.

If you're not like in the weeds in your numbers and like Kevin Dorsey uses the term that I love that I told him I was going to stall. He told me I could steal it from. But like he uses this term, don't micromanage. Be micro aware, right? And be micro aware of everything that's going on. Because when you're micro aware, then you can stay ahead of your problems and actually help people where they need help versus asking people where they need help, which they usually don't know. And then a lot of times with people I coach, like where they struggle in one on ones is they tell people like it's not objective and where the person needs help and then the other person doesn't need help there. And then it's kind of like a battle back and forth versus it being extremely aware where the person needs help. They're actually open to getting the help, which means they're going to be more open to your coaching, which means it should improve more.

But to Scott's point, do you think a lot of the managers are afraid to do it or is it that they, it was never modeled properly to them, so they don't know how to do it, therefore they're afraid to do it?

I think it's. I, I don't think they're afraid. I think it's the latter, Richard. I think a lot of people just don't know what they don't know. And they were thrown into a position. So the only way they need they know how to do it is the way that they did it. So they get, you know what I mean? They get frustrated. I've been there.

Yeah.

Where it's like, well, how many times do I have to tell this person the same thing?

Right?

And then you get frustrated and then they get frustrated and then, you know, you just end up in a bad spot.

Yep, I totally agree. I, I see that all the time. Is there anything you're noticing.

Generationally these days? Right? Like as the gen. Are the gen. As the gen Z starting to move into management or the millennials versus, you know, those, the three of us who are Gen Xers. Like are you seeing mindset, mindset differences that good, better otherwise I mean they could be great mindset.

The thing that I'm telling you, the thing that's consistent with everybody I coach and this, this is anybody from 26 year old and I have one client that's pushing 70.

They get frustrated.

They get frustrated because people don't do it how they did it.

And then my question always is, well, have you shown them what to do? Have you shown them metrics? Have you shown them expectations? And very few people.

Very few people like have it all laid out into, hey, this is the average touch point per meeting. This is the average close rate. Whatever their sales process is, whatever those metrics, whatever those numbers is, like that's where I spend the majority of my time is trying to figure out people's sales math, lay it out and then they can manage and coach off of that. But like all there's all this data out there, right? But people, people just don't seem to use it right.

Scott, go for it. Say it.

Ah. Richard was on mute again.

Yes.

Atta boy. Way to snick one, sneak one in there, man.

So how do you, how do you coach the manager to, to execute these things? Like how do we get them to adhere to this process, put it in place and stick with it and not abandon it, you know, when we're, when we're not around. And what is it going to take.

At a larger scale to sort of get sales managers improve to a point where they don't need people like you to coach them? As funny as that sounds, that's kind of our ultimate job is if we coach everybody up enough, we play ourselves out of a job.

So Scott, refers caught your attention back in the summer. I was listening to your podcast with Mark Smith. I don't know if you remember that or not, but.

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

I sent, I sent you. I was listening to Mark and I was laughing. I'm like, this is exactly what like I'm talking about in my, the ATM approach, right? And the first thing I do with every manager is, is for one, I gotta, I have to understand what they're working with, right? And I just set out an objective way to rank your team, right? And I call it ATM because I believe that you should treat your team like a bank account, right? You're gonna invest in areas that are going to help grow your bank account and you're going to kind of avoid the stuff that, you know, doesn't help you grow. So I rank them into three categories. A stands for awesome, T stands for typical, and M stands for mess.

And.

And I'll never forget I sent you the book. You read it, you send me like, oh, this is awesome. I love, I love this, right? And, and I, I was like, this is like what Mark's talking about. Because when I, when I got first started, right, I'm looking to duplicate the A player, right? I'm looking to duplicate the A player and like, you know, in five years, it. @ my first startup and we did, we did pretty much full sales. We, we startup, right? We hunted, we closed and we retained, right? And there's not many people that are good at all three.

But it was hard to find eight players. We sold advertising. It was hard, it was a hard sell.

But what I realized was, man, if I can get my, if I can get my metrics right, if I can get my expectations right, those, those middle tier, that B player, they can be, they can be just fine, right? And then I can build some up to A. And then the mess was what I tried to avoid because I want to give everybody the same opportunity to succeed. But as you guys know, sometimes people just take the wrong, the wrong sales job, right? And the sooner you can move off of them, you know, they find a better job and everybody's in a better situation. I've seen that happen a lot. But the first thing I start with is how do we rank our team? What do we have.

And.

Are.

We in a good place or are we in a bad place? And then make sure our expectations and sales math are so we can manage off of that and kind of, kind of go from there. So everything's laid out. So if there's a problem somewhere, if your sales are down, is it a closing problem or do you not have enough meetings like everywhere through the Process should be based on numbers and math. Right? And then you can coach off of.

That.

Just making sure I'm off mute. Completely agree. And, and you know, oftentimes those C players, you need to have a how's everything in your life going? Conversation. Right? Like, you know what? Because usually there's something else distracting them. They're, you know, sometimes those C players may be in the slump and they used to be B players. You got to figure out what else is going on. So I, I agree with you. At some point you have to move off from them and, and focus on that, that mid to high range. So I love that.

We got to move to wrapping this up. But obviously, Matt, you know, we always turn it around and say, you know, what questions do you have for, for us? So I'll give you a second to think about that. Big shout out. And thanks to HubSpot for sponsoring us and putting us in their podcast network and naming us a top podcast. Like, we are genuinely appreciative of that, that we were surprised when we got that call a couple of weeks ago. So thank you very much. Matt, what question you got for.

Us? Actually, Richard, can I add something real.

Quick?

Yeah. So if you guys can see the sign behind.

Me.

Yes. Small wins equals big.

Wins.

Right? So one of my, one of my things is when I go back to metrics and looking at that, right.

Is everybody has a number that they have to hit, right. Whether you're a manager or a rep.

My brother passed away. It's going to be two years ago, March.

1St. Sorry to hear.

That. And we found his. When his wife was cleaning out his car, found that post it note in his right belief right below his dash, like right. Kind of under the radio, right. And that's his writing. And like small wins equals big wins, right?

I, I talked to him every day. He was, he was a medical salesman, right. So he's in the car all the time. He was in Cleveland, I was in Phoenix. So I talked to him every day. And he had never, he had never brought that up.

And you know, when she sent that picture in our group message, when she cleaned out that car, I started thinking about small wins equals big wins. And I was like, man, that kind of, that kind of goes for everything in your life. You know, if you do the small, consistent things each day, right. They add up over time.

And they compound in small wins equals big wins. Right? So like in my six step process that I teach people that when we're looking at expectations, if you think about it in sales, right. It's the little things that you do every day for your.

Reps.

Right. That hold them accountable to those things that equal the big wins. So that's a lot. In my, you know, teaching is doing the little stuff every day in order to. To do that. So I just wanted to share that because it, it means a lot to.

Me. It's a great.

Reminder. Yeah. Super appreciative of that. And, and you've been staring at it and I meant to even ask about it and sort of got distracted because I was on mute. I was trying to make sure I didn't go on mute. So. So thank you for sharing that. And, and I agree. I think it is all about controlling the little things. Right. Control what you can control and break down big things and little things. I like that. I.

Like. Yeah, I think celebrating and celebrating the wins that we do have. We're so quick to beat ourselves up about everything. Sometimes we forget to celebrate anything that we did.

Well. Well, sales is all. Sales is mostly negative.

Right? Oh.

Yeah. It's 100 no's to get a.

Yes.

Yes. Yeah, most, most managers wait till the end of the month to try to get as much stuff in as they can instead of just doing it every single day. I think that's just the best way to.

Manage. Scott sometimes has a problem taking yes for an.

Answer.

What he's trying to say is that I need to read that sign over and over and over because I struggle with that.

Particular. So what questions you have for us, Matt? What can we do to help you? Thank you for sharing all this wisdom and sharing these stories and insights with.

Us. Here's what I'd ask both of you guys, right? I've been kind of on my own for less than a year, right. And I started, I started this part time and then it's grown. But what's the biggest? And you guys have been on your own for a while. Like, what would be your biggest, you know, advice to me?

Who. Diversify would be the thing that comes to mind. And.

That'S a hot topic, I think, for people who are kind of traditionally employed right now is, hey, you've got your regular job, but you also should think about other sources of income. I don't think people think about it as much. For solopreneurs, you've got your main business, which is your coaching business, right? Well, what else are you doing?

There's a lot of different things. Could be monetizing. A newsletter could be monetizing, a podcast could be monetizing events could be coaching Teams instead of individuals or individuals instead of teams. It could be building and running a community. It could be creating a digital asset. You know, that's like a course based on what you teach. It could be a physical asset, like a book that you, that you write. And I think that too many solopreneurs right now who are jumping into this or people who've been in the game for a really long time even have all their eggs in one basket. Right. So I run my consulting business, I run surfing sales. I run Thursday night sales. I can go on and on and on with all these different things that I do, and sometimes one or more of them dry up.

And if one of them dries up and that's the only one I got, I'm in deep.

Trouble.

Yep. When I'm out on my own, big time. So I think that it's wise for people to take a look at what else can you stack on top of that is related to what you do. And it kind of becomes a.

You know, like a flywheel for you. It's like, okay, I create this product that is about coaching, and people go through that product and love it, and then they come to me for coaching, and that's my main thing. And, you know, extensions kind of of who you are and what you do. That. That's. That's something that I would advise you to look into.

Richard. Yeah, I. I see everything as an asset. Everything I do is an asset. Right. So I'm a part of several communities. So I make sure I take time each day to. To respond to things or add comments or answer things, because that's part of the brand. I then take those answers to people's questions and I turn them into a LinkedIn post. I then take the answers to that and make it a blog post and other social places. And one thing I've learned is that not one person in the last six months since I really started focusing on this has ever called me out to say, dude, you just keep repeating yourself this week. Not one person. Because people find us in different channel. Yeah, right. One place we've sucked is we've got 400 episodes of this podcast. We barely ever heavily promote it, and we certainly don't go in and cut it up and snippet it and put in subtitles and do all those things to just build the awareness of it. We're starting to do it. We got 400 of these episodes. How many blog posts could we write off of this today.

Alone? Good Lord. Enough for. Enough for four years worth of stuff. At.

Least. So, so again, you know, that's a piece is just seeing everything as an asset and how, how you can utilize it and stuff like that. So I think that's the biggest piece. And then I think the other thing is.

Just being aware of that the ups and downs are going to happen and, you know, the business will find you. Right. It's, it's, it's going to be an interesting year in terms of people in your coaching and training business. Right. Like, you know, I'm starting to finally see, you know, all these layoffs come along and then it's like, oh, my gosh, they never talked to me about training. It just started, Took a little about two or three weeks longer than normal. Just started people coming in saying, okay, we're ready to do training. We're ready to train who we have left and those kind of things. So I think those are the, It'll find you. But I think you have to go out and put the karma in the world. That's my biggest.

Thing. Yep. No, that's, that's good advice and some, definitely something that, you know, I started on LinkedIn, then I actually mess around on TikTok, which is an interesting platform. I don't think you guys are on there at all, are.

You? No, not.

Really. I don't, I really don't want the Chinese government to find out anymore.

So I'm sure they have plenty, but yeah, I'm, I'm adverse to that one, so. But now what is it like? Just my curiosity, like, is it as obnoxious as we hear.

It? Not you, but yeah, definitely not Matt, because he would never.

Be. Yeah, I actually, I, I, I like it. It's, it's, it's interesting because their algorithm is good and.

I get way more interaction, you know, because I, I do videos mostly. That's why I went to Tick Tock like I do. You.

Guys?

Sure. Yeah, we were in this, we were, we were part of the same a couple years ago. And, you know, I saw him doing videos, so I just started doing them. But that's why TikTok. And I do some YouTube shorts too. But I get, I get a lot of good interaction and, and inbound on Tick Tock. So it's worked out. It's worked out well for.

Me. I threatened to do it for a long time and I just never did it. That's usually my thing.

Right. You know.

What? Here's an idea. Either Scott will run with it and make it better than mine, or I won't do it. And I'LL be like, I should have done.

That. The fun, the funny. The funny thing on Tick Tock is I'll do. I'll do bad manager.

Skits.

Right? I'll have different characters. And those are the ones that get. You know, I have one with over 100,000 views.

Because obviously a lot of people have bad managers. So that's. That gets the most, like, because it's. It's not just the managers. It's to everybody. And that's been an interesting that, you.

Know. I like that. Yeah. Everybody likes negativity.

Circling back to the very beginning. Everybody likes negativity in sales. Right, Right. So, Matt, thank you so much for coming on, man. We really appreciate.

It. Hey, this was fun. I was glad. I'm glad to come on any.

Time. Yeah. So. And for those. What's the the company.

Again?

My website is mattd Ferguson.com. and then all my stuff. So much of my stuff's on LinkedIn. And then my Tick Tock channel is at small wins, big.

Wins. Wait, what's.

The. What's the Tick Tock channel at small wins, big.

Wins. Oh, there you.

Go. At small wins equals big.

Wins. There you go. All right, so follow them on Tick Tock because, you know, Scott.

Because. Because Richard's not.

Gonna. Yeah. Now.

So if I can get a long blond hair wig, I might be Scott lease. As a manager, that's all I.

Need. That's all I need is a fake.

Account.

Yeah. A verified fake account of me on Tik Tok. Great. Here we go. All right, Matt, good luck, man. Take care. Thanks.

Again. Thanks, guys.