He Missed This For 10 Years… It Took 26 Minutes

Today's session features a married man of 10 years who admits he barely communicated throughout the entire relationship. Now, his wife hasn't left the house, but she's told him she's lost feelings and no longer feels emotionally safe. He believes the problem was withdrawal, not listening, and trying to fix everything. But as Cody starts digging into the conversation, a deeper issue begins to surface. What looks like self-awareness on the surface quickly turns into vague answers, generalities, and no real plan for change. As Cody presses further and uncovers the truth, it becomes clear the issue isn't just communication. Is that he's not actually working on anything at all. And the gap between what he says he's doing and what he can prove he's doing is the real problem. Let's jump into the session.

Yeah, I've been married now a little over 10 years. This is both of our second marriages. Yeah, we have children. And I'll be honest with you and transparent, I've not communicated at all through the whole marriage well.

Yep, hence why you're here.

That's why I'm here. Yeah.

So if I, if I was speaking to her and said, why are you le— so I assume she's le— what's the status? She le— has she left? Is she in the house? Are you separated in the house? Separated, separate? What, what's the condition?

We are in the house. Um, she has not left. Uh, about a month and a half ago is when she told me that, um she lost her feelings for me, um, and that, uh, she didn't feel safe with me emotionally.

Okay. Why do you think— what do you think? Did she tell you why she doesn't feel safe, or did she just leave it at that?

I, I, I, I would withdraw a lot and held a lot in, and, and not— I would not ever listen to her. I would just always be that, try to justify my thinking.

Okay, so it's going to be more around the— like, not listening doesn't destroy emotional safety. Like, if I just don't listen to you, that doesn't make me feel— or if you don't listen to me, that doesn't make me feel unsafe. It's when something comes back in the other direction. It's going to be— it's not going to be just ignoring somebody doesn't necessarily cause you to feel it.

Yeah, it, it wasn't just ignoring, it was just every time there was something brought up, I would always think I knew the right answer or how to fix it.

Okay.

And so it was very, very argumentative in a sense that I never made her feel like she could talk to me. Um, I had trust issues there too by how much I withheld.

So you, you basically punished her in both directions. You withheld communication And you made communication painful simultaneously.

Yes, yes, sir.

So really, we're looking at a complete, complete failure of emotional safety within, within the marriage. So what would you have to believe, Eric, to behave that way?

Let me turn you up there. I didn't hear the question. Sorry.

What would you have to believe to behave that way?

I believed I was right. I believed I knew my, my way of thinking was correct, and I was— I'm trying to learn and realize I was totally wrong at that way of thinking.

So let me, let me get a bit more pointed with it. So what you would have to believe to do that— so I'm guessing, like, I'm guessing it just wasn't necessarily like just super calm, peaceful, I don't agree with you. It was probably confrontational as well.

Yes, sir.

What you would have to believe to behave that way is that it's okay, that it's okay to behave that way. Yes, that's what you'd have to believe. So basically what, what I'm— what we're looking at is a man in the current format that believes it's okay to be aggressive in communication, that it's okay to be dismissive, and it's okay to withhold requirements. Yes. So communication for a woman is the equivalent of sex for a man. To, to withhold communication from a woman is like— let me ask you a question: is it okay for a woman to withhold sex from a man in a marriage situation? Is that okay? That basic need? I don't mean like on a on a case-by-case basis. I mean more like, would it be okay for a woman to withhold sex for 10 years?

No.

If you were married to a woman who said, I believe that it's perfectly okay and acceptable to withhold sex from a man, from my husband, indefinitely, how would you feel about that woman?

That she didn't have deep care for me, or any care, or any care. Yes.

Would— how would you look at her in terms of wanting to be in a relationship with her, a marriage? Like, she's gone— she's gone, I, I, I believe that it's okay to withhold sex, and that's actually what I'm going to do indefinitely. What would you do with that woman? Would you keep her? Would you want to get into a marriage? If he's in a marriage, would you want to stay married?

It would be hard. Yeah, probably not, be honest.

No is the answer, like, if we're being honest.

Yeah.

And then we add to that, on top of that, she's not giving you sex. She's also extremely disagreeable. She's extremely disagreeable. So you're now in a relationship with a woman who refuses to give you sex, uses, uses it against you, and is, is very— let's just say obnoxious. She's obnoxious as well. How are you feeling about this woman?

Pretty, pretty upset. Um, really upset, really hurt, really confused, really a lot of, lot of emotions there.

Does that describe your wife currently? No, she's not upset.

Oh, she's upset at me. Yes, yeah, yeah, yes.

She's not hurt. I mean, like, the emotions that— how you would feel about it, does that describe your wife? Hurt, upset, and so forth. Angry?

She was, yes.

So she's not anymore?

We, we are, uh, in, in the process of both working on things, and she sees that I'm, um, trying to just reinvent myself, rebuild from the ground.

She's apathetic. She's just given up on the relationship and giving you a story so she leaves you alone is what's happened.

Not now, not currently, no.

So, so she— what, what's going on then? She's working on the marriage?

Yes.

So why are you here? What's going on?

Um, I'm still working on the marriage. I'm actually, um, again, like I said, I'm trying to, to see every angle that I can communicate better, that I can improve me, because that's where it's got to start. So I can—

what are some things you've come up with?

Stop talking and listen. Hear her. Hear what she's saying. Hear— go past just the words and really find— trying to understand and learn all I can learn. Uh, from people like you, uh, others I've been listening to, uh, reading books, listening to podcasts, listening to your stuff.

Yeah. What else?

Making notes.

What else you doing? Make— making notes? Do you think that— do you think that's what she thinks is wrong with the marriage? She's got Eric, you don't make enough notes?

No, I know what— I know what she thinks is wrong. I know it's about me. It's about becoming the man that I should be. And I think I am a Christian, and I do believe that it's got to start with, uh, my relationship with God.

So what, so what are you looking for from me today? Like, you sound like you've got it figured out. What, what do you need from me?

No, I, I, I started this journey after I was that me and her had that talk, and I started listening to you and some of your, um, teachings. And, uh, and that's where my journey started a month and a half ago.

Awesome. So that doesn't answer the question though. The question, the question is, what do you want from me today? What are you looking— what's your outcome? What are you looking to get from this?

More, more understanding, more learning, more of how I can communicate better as a man, how I can be there better as a husband. I don't think the journey ends just because I started a month and a half ago with you, with your podcast, with your, um—

yep. So really, I mean, the best advice I can give you then is, is build that emotional safety, which can be summarized as to what extent can she be herself? What, what, what percentage of the time? So the gold standard is, can she be 100% of herself 100% of the time without needing to pull back, right? If she, if she has to censor herself some of the time, like if she has to censor herself 50% of the time because she's afraid of the reaction, that means that, that her emotional safety, for all intents and purposes, is diminished by 50%.

So you're right, that's happened.

Yeah, that, that's, that's this based on what you're telling me, that, that's the path forward for you is like, is really be focused on, on that. You know, guys ask me all the time like, can this marriage be saved and how long is it going to take? Well, the answer is, can you re-establish emotional safety and how long is it going to take for you to do that?

Yes.

I mean, give me one thing you're still doing right now that you need to stop. Specific example, not a generality like, I need to listen more. Like, give me, give me one thing, one behavior that you need to remove from this marriage immediately.

Immediately remove, um, I need the example you— I, I just had weakness of questioning, uh, of that I used to do a lot of because of my insecurities. And, uh, that flared back up without, uh, with in the questioning of just in generalities of why is this, why is that. I don't know if that makes sense. Put it—

no, it doesn't. Put it in, put it in, in straight language. What do you need to remove? Give me one thing you need to remove. You're at like anger, aggression, alcohol, something, something tangible.

Tangible.

So you're working on nothing. You can't— you're not really working on anything. You've just— you've talked yourself into the belief that you're working on something. When asked the question directly, what are you working on, it's like you've got a word salad or nothing. If you said, Cody Butler Butler, I'm working on my language, I use foul language, I use aggressive language, and that has to stop, that, that's something that you're working on. If you go, I'm working on my drink, I drink too much, I need to stop, I'm working on drinking, like Yeah, you have, like, yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to speak over you.

Go ahead.

If you can't articulate what you're working on, you're not working on anything. Yeah, I'm, I'm working on speaking calmly and not irrationally, and I'm working on not just blurting out Yeah, it's like, it's like if I went to an employee, if I had an employee at work and I said, what are you working on right now? And they go, oh, business in general. Yeah, that's awesome. Can you be, can you be a little bit more specific than business? Marketing. Okay, can you be a little bit more specific than marketing? You know, it's like You know, the, the versus going to an employee and saying, what are you working on right now? I'm working on reconciling the financial ledger for week 4, period 3, and I'm about 40% of the way through it, so if you could just leave me alone so I could finish by the end of the day, that would be great. Like, which, which employee is actually doing something? Which one? Which one's— which one? Specificity gets results. Specificity is a force multiplier.

So the, so the one that's actually doing, doing something, not the one that's talking about doing something.

Exactly. Most people will make the mistake, and this is useful for everybody, like you say, what are you working on? My mindset. Well, that's a category. What aspect of your mindset? Like, that, that, that's not, that's not an answer to the question, right? People, what are you working on? I'm working on myself. Well, that's huge. What are you working on? Your finances? You working on your body? You working on your, your mental health? You working on your mindset? You working on your business? You working on your— what, what, what, what does that mean? I'm working on myself.

Like, yeah, it's Go ahead.

Yeah, no, go ahead. Sorry, over to you, Eric.

Yeah, that— and you're helping me understand the question better and what you're looking for. And honestly, I'm working on a lot of those categories you mentioned. It's just when you're recreating from the ground up, that's a lot. So, um, my mental health— yes, you hit that. I'm working on that. I'm speaking to someone weekly, um, in that realm.

Uh, I'm just asking for one special— you've gone back to giving me general— you're just repeating what I'm saying to you.

Yeah, I was saying—

I asked you a question and then I gave you, I gave you an example answer, and then you took the example answer as your answer. You've done that twice now. You don't have answers to these questions, Eric. You're just taking my answers and repeating them back. Give me something you're working on that I haven't given to you already.

That, that you've not given to me yet?

That I've not given you as an example?

Showing up for my wife, showing up for my family, showing up, being, being present in mind and What does that mean?

What does that mean?

Well, again, I am learning. I, I'm, I'm starting my journey over. So what that means to me, whether it means it to people that's been much further than me, um, what it means to me is, hey, I'm stopping to listen to you more. I'm stopping— I'm, I'm starting to see how to communicate with you better.

Yeah, awesome, brother. Any questions for me?

That, that was my whole goal of getting on here, is to see how I can improve myself as a communicator, as a specificity.

I've given it to you. You, you've given nothing but generality. You speak in generalities. I'm going to go to the store sometime this week. Awesome. I'm going to, I'm going to spend more time with my wife. Awesome. I'm going to be more present with my children. Awesome. What does that mean? Like, it's like saying, hey, we should get together and have dinner sometime. Yeah, that's awesome. That's a generality, and it means it's never going to happen. We should get together and have dinner sometime, Eric. What? Yeah, I agree with you. How's your Tuesday looking? What about Thursday night? Okay, 7 PM Thursday night, we'll get together. Like, that, that's mean. That's That's a meaningful specific versus a generality. What are you working on right now? I'm working on going to the grocery store at some point. Okay, when? At some point. Like, it's escape language. It's like it's committing to absolutely nothing.

So I need to be more specific in my, like, specific in my commitments. And what I say.

So you said you're committed to showing, being present. Okay, well, give me a time, give me something I can put in a spreadsheet and mark it as yes or no. Give me an example of being present that you commit to.

Just being present in the evenings at home for the meals and in the mornings at getting ready for work.

Okay, all right. So how many days a week do you commit to that?

5.

Okay, at least. At what time?

Every, every more— well, the time, the time has changed because we're all, all my whole family is busy.

All right, so this is what I'm talking about, right? So 5 days, like 5 days, I, I I will have— I will be present at mealtimes in the evening 5 days per week. Okay, do you see that's specific?

Yes, sir.

Versus going, I need to be more present for my family. Well, I knew that, you knew that, everybody watching this knew that. Like, but the question is, how are you going to do that? Yes, you have no plan. You have no plan, Eric. Like like we're starting to formulate a plan a little tiny bit here, right? Because I'm pushing you and pushing you and pushing you. But before, before we get to that and go, okay, well, I commit to 5 PM 5 days a week to have meals, and like, that's, that's a yes or no. Now, now presence is measurable. Okay, if I was to talk to you again in a week, I can ask you, how did you do with presence? Like, like before this conversation, like, you just go, well, I think I did all right, I think it was pretty good. It's like, well, What is the measurement of success and failure? What's your measurement? It's whatever you decide it is on any given day versus going 5 days a week. It's lunch, it's dinner time with the family 5 days a week. And if I'm— it's pass or fail, right? I either do it or I don't. That way, if I was to speak to you again next week, I would have— I would have a clear map. And I say, well, you committed to being more present with your family, Eric. Did you achieve that, yes or no? Versus what you just said, right? Like, I just— I'm committed to being more present, but there's no— you have committed to nothing. You've committed to an idea, right?

That makes sense. Thank you.

And if you take that in every area of your life, or every area of the marriage, I commit You know, I, I commit to listening to my wife more. Okay, well, what does that, what does that mean? How can we measure that? Okay, well, what about we're going to set aside 45 minutes, 3 nights a week, where there's no TV, there's no internet, there's no distractions. We sit down and I let her talk for 45 minutes without interruption unless she asks for my input. Like, that's measurable then, right? We can come back next week and go You said you were going to listen more to your wife, Eric. We put a plan in place to where that's documentable, documentable, measurable, observable. Did you do it? Yes or no? Did you do it? Yes or no? Versus going, I need to listen to my wife more. Well, I need to listen to my wife more too to tell me something I don't know as well. Who doesn't need to listen to their wife more? But to say, I need to listen to my wife more, I need to eat more salads, I need to exercise more, I need to watch less TV— there's a lot of things I need to do. Do you see, do you see what I'm saying? Unless you nail it down, brother, as a meaningful specific, it's just going to be a pointless generality.

That makes so much sense. It's just an idea.

Just an idea. You've got it. You've got to give it flesh. You've got to give it blood. You've got to give it a heartbeat. Like, you've got to make it measurable, demonstratable and measurable. How do I know if I'm succeeding or not? My goal is to create emotional safety with my wife. How do I know if I'm succeeding or not? Just opinion. Well, I feel like I am. Well, Feel a lot of stuff. This is, this is what happens in the workplace, right? You have to be here at 9 o'clock in the morning. Were you there or were you not there? Well, I feel like I was there. No, this is not— there's no feeling. Well, if this is measurable, right, like when the clock hit 9 o'clock, were you in the office, yes or no? Not I feel like, you know, versus I feel like I was on— I feel like I was at work on time. Nail it down, Eric. Get specific. Like, if you want to achieve an outcome, define what that outcome is, make it measurable, communicate it to others, and have people hold you accountable. Okay, I have, I have committed to having dinner with my family 5 nights a week. All right. Who, who can you, who can you share that with and go, this is my commitment, I need you to hold me accountable to this, not let me off the hook. Next week you meet with that person. You committed last week, Eric, to having dinner with your family 5 nights in the next week. Did you do it? Yes or no? Well, pretty much. I hope like, it's like, no, it's not pretty much. This is binary. You either did it or you did not do it. Like, there's no feelings, there's no thinking. There's no sort of. This is a yes or a no. You did it or you didn't. And if you did it, pat on the back, well done. You're serious and you're committed to actually being present with your family. If you didn't do it, you're just full of it. You're just that. You're just that. Jibber jabber, jibber jabber, jibber jabber, jibber jabber. Does that, does that make sense?

That makes so much sense that That opens my eyes to see how I need to be more specific on a lot of things.

Yep, it will transform everything. Like, this is, this is what your wife needs, right? It's what everybody's wife needs. If she's unhappy, like, same, same with Joe, right? Same with everybody. If your wife is saying, I'm unhappy with this, just going, I need to change that, in yourself, I'm working on it and I need to change it. No. No, not enough. Not enough. Document it. Okay, what exactly specifically needs working on? Anybody watching this, any given point, if I ask you the question, what are you working on right now, you should be able to give me a very meaningful specific. If you ask me, Cody Butler, what are you working on right now? I'm working on getting foul language out of my vocabulary. I use too many curse words. I swear too much. That is the very specific thing that I'm working on. Specifically, to say I'm working on my attitude is not enough. To say I'm— if I just say I'm working on my attitude, all that means, Eric, is I'm actually not working on anything. I like the idea of working on my attitude, but actually, I, you know, I like the idea of doing it more than doing it. Awesome. Does that, does that help you, brother?

Yes, sir, it does. Thank you.