Rat Race to Real Estate with Mark Updegraff

All right, welcome to Ladies Kicking Assets. Robin and I are super excited to have you here. And we are joined by our fabulous guest, Mark updagraph, who I had the honor and pleasure of meeting in Raise Masters. So we are in another group together. He has got a company called Raise Capital. He's got kind of a similar story, and we will kind of dig into that a minute. But he does awesome, lives on LinkedIn. And thank you so much for joining us. I. I love that you have kind of gone through some trials and tribulations of life and figured things out and have shifted. And I want to kind of dig into that. So thanks for joining us.

Welcome.

Yeah, thank you, Courtney. Thank you, Robin. I'm really excited to be here.

Okay, so you are in New York, right? In Rochester.

I am in up, Up, Up Upstate Rochester, N.Y. most people don't even consider Rochester upstate now. If I tell them I'm in upstate, they think I'm nuts. They're like, that's. You're in a different state.

Right. That's awesome. Well, I do know, and one of the things that I. That really kind of piqued my attention and got my curiosity going was when we started. Started chatting, you had talked about how you lost your job and you pivoted and shifted into syndication. So can we kind of talk a little bit about what that looked like and what that time frame looked like? You know, a lot of people talk about, you know, moving into syndication, but they don't ever really get into, you know, what the that time frame looked like. And people think that it's just an automatic transition, like just going from one job into the next. And there's really kind of some time and learning curve that goes into that.

Right?

Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I was fortunate enough to have started purchasing some investment properties while I was still in college, before I came out with a master's degree and got into industry and then ultimately got laid off. So I had a good track record of purchasing smaller single and multi family homes and then being the active manager for those properties. And when I got laid off.

Yeah, I'm sitting here thinking about who, who mentored you, what got you. Let's start there. I mean. Yeah, so 18 to 22, essentially.

Well, I was in. I was in for my master's. So I had, you know, gone through my undergraduate degree. I had gone to work for industry. You know, I've always been entrepreneurial and. But I just never knew about real estate. So when I went back to get my master's, you know, I was A little bit older. I was in my mid-20s. Okay. So I had some. I had some good experience. And yeah, I was investing in the stock markets. And it was during, you know, a good bull market cycle where my investments did pretty well. But, you know, I was checking it all the time and, you know, I didn't really, you know, it was more luck than anything else. Right. I wasn't really digging into these companies. I was just kind of following trends and making some money. And I could. I saw things go up, I saw things come down, and it just. It didn't seem like a very scalable business model, in my opinion. So I got into reading some books about real estate specifically and how, you know, over time, real estate really is one of the best asset classes that you can invest in. And so I decided to take action. And that's when I purchased my first single family home in 2008 after the market crash, when every. Everybody was just saying like, this is that you're. You're being stupid. Don't do it. And, you know, I was. I'm really.

Exactly. When you move into the asset is when everybody else is scared. That is when you go in and buy. I don't care what it is. That's the time. So good for you for recognizing that.

And I don't really know what my underwriting looked like when I did it. I was more, you know, going for a benchmark. You know, obviously it was a risk in that, you know, I didn't know exactly how much rent I would get because I had never managed a property. I could look on the Internet, but the area that I was looking in was pretty repressed as far as rental values. So I could easily see that, like, on average, the rent was probably like 6, 700 bucks for that type of product. But I had a feeling that if I came in and I put my spin on it, I could attract a better tenant and I could get higher rents than I was seeing in the market. So I think that's part of why people thought I was a little bit off in my decision making was that, you know, I paid 55,000 for a single family home that, you know, the Internet might tell you is renting for like 700 bucks. And they're like, it's not. Doesn't really look like a great investment. You know, you're probably going to be tight with. You have. If you have a mortgage. I was able to come in. And then, you know, I added, you know, at least 10, $10,000 worth of value to the property through Kitchen cabinets, paints, refinishing the hardwoods, and then, you know, not including my labor. So I did that, recapitalized the property and leased it out for 925. And then by my second term, you know, my first turnover, I was up to 1125. So that really gave me the motivation to say, okay, this is a really good benchmark. My first one ended up being one of my better benchmarks. And then I kind of checked on both sides, like, okay, I'm going to go towards more cash flow in a little bit riskier of an area. But then you realize that you're not going to hit those rents that you thought you were going to hit, and you're going to have more evictions. But then if you go to the nicer area, you're paying a little bit more. You say you're paying this premium, but you have less evictions. So I tell a lot of investors, like, the pro forma is just a jumping off point, but really, as you own things and you operate them, you're going to understand better how they perform, more so than your pro forma might dictate. So the pro forma is kind of like a back of an envelope for me. And then my expertise is where I'm going to come in and say, okay, I'm going to make a buy decision. Even though the pro forma might look a little weak on this, I know that the location's superior. There's some businesses moving in, maybe some gentrification happening. I'm going to get an upswing on appreciation, so I'll be able cash my equity back out. And plus, I'll be able to get a boost on my rents where they're going to be higher than what the average rent in that neighborhood is right now.

I love how you just jumped out there. And the. One of the. The statements that you made that was. Is powerful in any aspect of our wealth development is you took action. Now, your evaluation of that product evolved through time, but you took action. And that right there is the key difference between we all have the same amount of hours in the day, we all have the same amount of time. We can all read the same books, but if we don't jump out there and take action, nothing else happens. You know, and some of our greatest learning moments are from our mistakes. And so you've been able to really home that into the rest of whatever's, you know, navigated the trajectory of everything else that you're doing. But you took action at a really young age. So I love that. That's great.

Yeah. So when you decided to buy that first property, what kind of mortgage, like, how did you pay for that? Because this is something that I get asked a lot by younger, younger people is, you know, I really want to get started. I'm not even sure where to go or how to do that. And I didn't even know we were going to talk about this. But, you know, what did that. What did that look like, that process to acquire that property?

Sure. So in 2008, I went with bank of America, and they gave me 9010 terms, so 10% down. And they also allowed me to do 6% sellers concessions. You know, I could check my paperwork just to verify, but I'm pretty positive I came out of pocket, like $7,000 on the closing. You know, that was all my prepaids, minus my concessions, which was a really good entry point for a $55,000 house. As far as cash out of pocket, you know, today I advise people that are just starting out, if they haven't already purchased a home, they might as well maximize their FHA loan, which is going to be their lowest out of pocket. They have available at, you know, three and a half percent out of pocket to get into an investment. And then I'll also tell them, why don't you go ahead and position yourself in a really good area, because you're never going to have an opportunity to purchase a nice asset with 3 1/2% down. Except for now with your FHA loan. As soon as you own that, you know, your next loan, you're looking at 25% out of pocket. So I think I may have gotten lucky back then that that's what the lending terms were. You know, 10%. I know as things have progressed, you know, Now I'm paying 20 to 25% down for multifamily or commercial and sometimes even more, depending on the product.

Yeah. And I've been trying to talk my daughter into buying like a quadplex, because she can go out and get that, you know, utilize that FHA loan, but then, you know, rent those other three pieces out so that it will pay for the entire property. So I think that's a great way to get started.

Absolutely. Yeah. I helped two individuals that were not yet married, and so they each had an FHA opportunity which they took advantage of on four unit property. We orchestrated it off market. You know, I knew the seller from the neighborhood. He was a slumlord. The property needed some work. But my clients were young and handy and they knew that they could fix it up with a little sweat equity. So we did that twice on two different properties and they exited within two years and resold both off market to a new investor coming to the market, taking on, you know, the, the improved property with the improved rents, still getting a good cash flow. So it was a good deal for all parties. And they pocketed about $225,000 in profit that they use to launch their, you know, to launch their businesses. You know, now they have a, they have a farm, they've got lakefront short term rentals. And so they're doing really good in real estate. And it was really those first two FHA deals that set them up for, for future success to give them the capital they needed investing and, and making smart decisions with real estate.

Fantastic. Oh my gosh, I love stories like that, don't you? I just love it.

Do. All right, so, okay, so let's fast forward a little bit and you know, you've, you've been acquiring properties and then I guess when you got out of college, obviously you went into the workforce.

Yep, that was the plan. You know, your, your parents tell you, go to school, get a good job. You know, they want to invest in you. My father's very entrepreneurial, so he's always kind of like built that in. But he never said, hey, go out and be an entrepreneur. You know, he, he was kind of with the mantra that everybody else has, which is go to school, get a good job. But what I realized early on was that there was the earning potential in the short term, wasn't there? Right. As a scientist, I was capped. I came in at 70, and if I spent my entire career there, I would still be under a hundred. And if I went into management, that was kind of like a schmoozy chain of just, you know, trying to climb the corporate ladder. And it didn't really seem like it was based on the merit of your work. It really seemed like it was based on who you knew and what connections you had outside of the office so you could bring in government contracts. And I just didn't want to be part of that, like brown nosing crew, you know, to, to make more wages. And I really didn't know if it would pan out or, you know, if the company would start shedding jobs, if some of these management positions would go away because they really don't add much value to the organization. You know, the real values comes from the scientists, whether the managers are willing to admit it or not.

Sure.

So what, let's move forward. So at what point in time, like how long ago did you, were you, did you lose your job?

Oh, that's a good question. It must have been at least 10 years ago. I'd have to double check, but probably around that time frame.

Yeah, yeah. And it's at that point in time you said. Yeah, I'm done with this corporate nonsense and I'm doing, you know, real estate syndications or whatever. Full time.

Yeah. How did you go from, you know, you were in single family homes, so let's use that benchmark. 10 years. What made you decide to switch into syndicating? Because a lot of people don't really quite embrace that for some time.

Yeah. So I live in a market where there's so many investment opportunities that make sense. I knew right away that I would never have enough money to take down all the deals that I wanted to take down. So I knew it would be important to surround myself with other investors that were well capitalized, that wanted to see some of these opportunities that I was seeing in the marketplace. So after I got laid off, you know, we had to decide what I was going to do. And I didn't want to have to rely solely on my passive income to pay my bills because that would squash my passive investing build. Right. I wouldn't be able to build my unit count because now all those funds that I was earmarking to go back into that business were now paying for my food and my, my housing. I didn't want to do that. So I really knew that I needed some active income to supplement my, my W2. And then also I wanted some to contribute back into my passive investing. So for a brief stint I went and I worked for my father because, you know, I told you, he's an entrepreneur, he's a trucking company. And his, his thing that he had in his head was that like, his employees are going to have to respect me. The boss's son can't just come in and have some highfalutin job getting paid a lot of money. He had. I had to work my way up. So he literally had me on a gas well pad, you know, bright and early every morning, you know, crack of dawn when these guys are getting ready to drill and I would be backing up tractor trailer trucks to get them to hook. They had the sand and then the sand would go down in the well to push the, the gas back out. And I would stand next to a diesel engine all day. They call them hogs. There's these things that like shoot the sand down a conveyor belt to get it ready to process down into the hole. And I would come home every night, you know, after, like, 15, 16 hours of doing this, and I would have just the most massive headache you can imagine from breathing this carbon monoxide all day. And I told him. I'm like, dad, like. Like, no offense, but, like, this is. This is not cool. Like, I've got a college degree. I'm educated. I almost got ran over by a truck when it was, like, raining and pouring. And, you know, they've got all these mats, and they've got these sandbags to keep the mats down. Well, I tripped over a mat because I was walking backwards right next to the truck where I could have easily just been crushed. And so I'm like, I'm having all these red flags, and I'm like, look, I. I get it that you want me to, like, work my way up and show my worth in the company, but this is not going to work for me. I need. My health is important to me, and even just, like, doing something where I feel like I'm actually adding value, and I'm more than just telling this guy to back his truck up. So, you know, I said, don't pay me. I worked for him for, like, a month. I was like, I don't want any wages. But what had happened when I was down in this Marcellus Shale region was I saw the activity of all these people going to the county and looking up the land deeds, right, to figure out who had the mineral rights on all these properties. And I was like, okay, there's all the there. I mean, it was packed. It was just swarming with people checking all these papers, you know, because everything was paper and books, and they're going through it, and I'm like, this is interesting. I'm like, I wonder what the foreclosure market's like down here. If the gas is so important, then, like, maybe the property is important, too. Well, I went and checked out one of the foreclosure auctions, and there was nobody there to bid. It was just like the bank and. And no bidders. I'm like, this is interesting. And I had had some experience with foreclosures back in Rochester. I think we had maybe purchased one up here. And it was completely different down in Pennsylvania. And I had to kind of get the lay of how that whole process worked. You know, it was very archival. I'd have to go in and, like, print paper. There's, like, a list that would be hanging on the office door that I'd have to Go take a picture of. And then to find some of these properties was almost impossible too because it was like Rural Route 12, 47, 9, 8, 4. And it's like there's no signs. So.

Right.

Finding the surveys and finding all that stuff, well, I ended up finding a parcel that I could tell was like in, it was really in a nice spot as far as where the Marcellus, because you can see the Marcellus on a map if you Google it. And I'm like, this is prime. This isn't like a really high concentrated gas area. And it was 10 acres and it was a house that a woman had paid 250, 000 for. And she had one of those loans that were originated back when, you know, they would just underwrite anybody. And she couldn't, she couldn't afford it, she couldn't pay it, she never paid it, she got, she lost it. So she might have paid a little bit of a premium in that market that was booming and anybody could buy a house. But I saw the potential and I went in and I formed a partnership with my father and I said, why don't we do this? I don't have the cash to buy 100 plus thousand dollars foreclosure, but I can do the legwork, I can do the groundwork, I can find it, I can help us identify it. And you know, if we get it, you know, we'll also, we'll lease it out so we can get some rent coming in on the residential side. And so that particular house, you know, she was a mess. The whole basement was filled with dogs. And I'd tell you there's like an inch to 2 inches of just like solid, solid feces and dog waste that we had to like scrape off. So I threw away so many sets of clothes just being over there. But we ended up acquiring that foreclosure and going through the eviction process with her to get her out and getting it back online and then leasing it up to the gas company directly who then just put their service workers there for a number of years. So we would just get checks right from like Chesapeake. And you know, we got a huge premium on that because everybody wanted that house. It was four bedroom, two bath, it was a log house with a great view, 10 acres. So we got a really good rent and they, they drilled a well across the street, you know, within the first year that we owned it. So over, you know, the last 10 years, we really got small checks because they're only going to take gas out if the gas price supports Their, you know, their need for that gas, otherwise they're going to keep it under the ground. Right. And store it. So we knew that with our, with our projections, based on my digging through the Internet and trying to figure out, you know, how much we could make on this investment. We just knew like, okay, we're going to make money. We just don't know when it's going to depend on the gas checks coming to us. And so for 10 years, we got really, really small checks. And it was kind of like a joke. My dad would just laugh like, yeah, this gas, whatever. But when the price spiked not too long ago, we had a couple months where we just had ridiculous checks where like, he sent me a copy of the check to look at. I was like, what is this? Like, is that for like a year? He's like, no, that's one month. And we were just really blown away. So that, you know, started our relationship as more of partners versus employee employer. And we've had a really good relationship following that trajectory.

Wow, I didn't know that you did that with your dad. That's amazing. So is he part of raise?

He is not part of raise, no. So, you know, we did a lot of investing early on on, on smaller, smaller deals, but he really doesn't have the time to put into the corporations. So he was more of kind of like he knew he was acting as a lender more so than as a partner. And eventually, you know, after I had built various companies, I probably have like 30 or 40 different LLCs, we decided that he would take more of a lending role versus a equity partner role because, you know, he, he could see that I was doing a lot of the legwork and he really wasn't contributing and he felt like it wasn't fair for me to have to do that. So that's kind of how, you know, I paid him back early on by making him equity partner and then sourcing the deals, getting them leased up, doing all the, doing all the hard stuff, and then, you know, he could sit back and collect checks off of that. Now we've got a structure where he's getting paid based on his lending versus based on equity in, in the property. And then I can be free to run my business the way that I want. So if I want to refinance a property and deploy that capital towards other things, I'm free to do that without really having to explain to him the inner workings of how I operate as a real estate professional.

Right, right. Well, that's awesome that you acquired that property. And got the mineral rights. Because a lot of properties in Texas, you can buy the property, but the mineral rights don't trans. That's awesome that you got that. Well, so what is your primary focus now as you've kind of transitioned through these different phases?

Yeah, so I am the active developer and general contractor for a 16,000 square foot office conversion that we're turning into 10 luxury apartments in downtown Rochester. So that's my project for 2023. In conjunction with that, we're moving our operation out of that building and into a new building that we're just wrapping up here in the city. So that's taken up a lot of my time. It's given me a lot of valuable insight into the development process and working with lenders on, you know, a construction loan that converts to a perm loan. So that's what I'm doing now. But I've also launched my syndication company, raise capital. So I'm underwriting deals. I'm focusing on things that I know really well. So I still have opportunities that come to me in Rochester. You know, like I've got a 54 unit distressed seller that I'm working with. You know, we're not to terms on price, but I'm confident that he knows he's in a position where he's, he's got to move on because he's just bleeding cash. So as soon as he understands that, like I am the buyer, there's not, there's nobody else that's going to want to do this huge heavy lift for him. And I'm happy to represent him as his broker to try to find another buyer, but I'm just giving him the reality of the situation that he's in. So, you know, I'm working on deals like that where we'll come in, we'll add the value, we'll get the thing leased up and you know, we're, but we're not going to overpay on the acquisition. So even though he purchased it for a price that he shouldn't have, you know, he kind of trusted his broker when he bought it. And it was fully occupied. But we have a feeling in hindsight that it was some kind of scam where they weren't real tenants. And as soon as he purchased it, you know, there was nobody there. So he's owned this 54 unit, then it's almost completely vacant. He's got about five tenants in the entire thing. And he's just, yeah, he's, he's bleeding cat. And it needs, it needs a Ton of renovation. So if, if he comes to me, which he has for management, I, I just politely say, look, your asset's not in a condition where I would even consider taking the management. You know, it's, it's not something that we want to put our name on. If you're willing to spend, you know, $20,000 per unit plus some curb appeal money and some money for the commercial space, then yeah, we can talk. But if you don't have that capital or you don't want to deploy that capital, then no, I don't want anything to do. So, so that's kind of, kind of my focus, you know, just keeping my ears to the ground for opportunities. I, I tend to look for things that are off market. So I've got another seller where I've, you know, it's fun to find older people that have like, been there, done that. So this gentleman I'm working with now, he's 87 and he's amassed a huge portfolio of investment properties in a class A neighborhood. And when he was buying them, you know, the prices were reasonable and he could cash flow, but he hasn't really updated them. But the, the location is so good, it doesn't matter, right? You're always going to get a tenant, you're always going to have high occupancy. But his rental rates are pretty suppressed compared to what he could achieve if he were to go in and put in some shaker cabinets, some fresh, fresh paint and you know, maybe update the bathroom. So my pitch to him is like, yeah, you could, you can sell it to me for a multiple of your rents, that's fine. But we got to keep it on the lower side to give myself room to be able to improve the properties, get a higher rent and then take it to the bank. And then I think he would also be open to some con, some creative finance because he doesn't want to get whacked with this massive capital gain either. So I think we can structure a win win where he helps me and I help him at the same time.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

Yes, I do too.

Wow.

Well, that's really cool that you have access to kind of some of those off market deals and people are bringing those things to you. And I think we're going to see so many. We're already starting to see a lot of distressed properties and people that bought things over the course of this last few years. Especially as you know, things were just going up and up and now they're finding themselves in hot water. So I think there's definitely going to be a lot of opportunity out there, for sure.

Yeah. Yep. So I'm trying to get positioned so over the next two years, I can seize those opportunities. And I've got my. My contacts ready to go. So I'm going through the investor list and really making those relationships really strong, where I say, hey, look, I'm not in a hurry to buy something. I want to buy the right things, but I want you on my side when we find something that we can pounce on it and really seize that opportunity. So I haven't. I haven't created a blind fund, but I've been considering it. I do have a number of investors that I think would come into a blind fund, given my track record with them.

You know, Mark, I love the fact that you're talking about just some basic fundamentals going back to your investor database and just following up with those folks and seeing really where they are right now, what their needs are. And just making that heart connection, you know, is so critical so that when you do have a project, they are, you know, listening for what you've got out there, and you're. You've heard what they're looking for. So I think that's. That's a great piece of advice for all of us. No matter where we are with our businesses, no matter how successful, never forget the basics. And the basics are our investors and what are their needs. And so you're really doing that. So I think that will take you far, far, far on your wealth journey and just pouring back into the lives of others, really. So I think that's great. I like that.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Well, let me. Okay, so I have a quick question. So what is probably one of the greatest challenges that you've had to overcome through all of these learning experiences? And, you know, starting off, you know, back here, you know, 12, 14 years ago to.

To now, that's a really great question. I think it will come down to personnel. Right. So when you first start out, you're very sensitive to how much money you're spending on payroll, and you want to get a good bang for your buck, so you probably end up hiring somebody on the cheaper side. That's not always the best idea. Right. Sometimes we just have to suck it up and pay a higher price, maybe even pay a premium in the marketplace to get the right people. So I think over the last 15 years of just building a business from scratch and having zero people on payroll, the hardest part is managing people and dealing with people, hiring people, keeping them happy, knowing when to fire people, knowing who not to hire to begin with. There's a lot of times when your business is growing, you have a dire need to get people in the organization because otherwise you're not going to be able to provide the level of service that you're accustomed to providing to your clients. So the need is real to get a body in, but sometimes you don't have the right body. So one of the key things that I started doing after reading E Myth a number of years ago was just always having a marketing channel for employees. Even if I had absolutely no need for an employee, because we just hired, you know, three or four and we just, we were totally staffed and we couldn't afford another employee. I'm still going to market for people because when you find that real exemplary, I can't talk today. The perfect employee. You find the perfect employee. Even if you're completely staffed, you just hire them because they don't come around that often. Right. And you know, my father says, hey, there's always somebody coming in, there's always somebody going out, there's somebody leaving at any given time. So that's just part of the business. I want to make sure that if I find somebody that's awesome, I grab them and, you know, I'll, I'll figure out how to generate, generate more revenue to pay for that person after I have them on staff versus not even, you know, taking the. Taking advantage of that opportunity. So I've had a few key people where, you know, my, my staff specifically in counting is like, hey, you shouldn't hire this person right now. And I'm like, hiring them. I had the interview with them. They're going to be here and chances are they're going to dance circles around somebody here. And then if you're still having an issue because we haven't improved our revenues, then somebody else is probably going to have to go. Bye. Byes.

Well.

Yeah, yeah, we had a guest recently that talked about, you know, having the right team in place and how, you know, it really is specific to the type of properties that you are managing and taking care of that, you know, the different types. He, he kind of broke it down into, you know, Walmart and, you know, Nordstrom, you know, people taking care of those types of properties. And so, and it really doesn't matter what you're doing. Having the right people in place are really those key factors that can really help you grow and, and accomplish what you're trying to do so much better and so much faster.

Absolutely.

Yeah, I, I remember that Interview. And that was a good one. Yes, it's a great one. So true. But I love the fact that you said here, when you bring them on, even if you can't quite afford them, you'll figure out another project, another way to tweak your business line so that you can. Because people, great people, are unicorns, you know.

Right.

Very different, difficult to, to acquire. And if you find them, grab them, you know?

Yep.

Yeah. So when you, when you said you, you'll find another way of coming up with some income to pay for that, what does that look like?

Oh, there's, there's a mountain of different ways depending on how your business is structured. Right. So I'm running three different corporations. I've got a general contracting firm, I've got a management firm, and I've got a real estate brokerage. So there's a lot of crossover where I might have one person that works on three companies, I might have one person that works on two, one person that just works on one, you know, so in my line of work, as far as generating more revenue, it could be as simple as going in and changing our fee structure or it could be the output of work that we're doing. Right. So lease renewals would be an easy example. Right. Sometimes when we're so busy with lease ups, because all of our management stuff happens between like May and Let's say August, 90% of the volume is going to turn over during that time period. And if you also have lease renewals that are happening at the same time, you know, they might go to the, to the back of the line, back of the queue, while we're doing the lease ups to make sure we minimize vacancy, I could easily just say, okay, you know, I hired you to do xyz, but at this point, because revenue isn't quite there yet, I just want you to go through and do all these lease ups for me real quick. And, you know, it's a very simple task. It generates $75 per renew and it's something that, you know, I've got them in the door. I've explained to them the vision, I've shown them what I think ultimately their position is going to be and where, what I want them to be, to be doing. But at this point, you know, just jump on board and help me out a little bit so I can get us to the point where you can really fully take on that role. You know, it might mean that you're doing a little bit of XYZ in the meantime, while, you know, we're churning and when we get back to our slower season, you know after we go out of the lease lease up peak then we can really figure out okay let's re integrate this role and take some things off of this plate, some things off of that plates and then figure out you know where, where are we looking revenue wise and where are we looking as far as capacity to generate more revenue? Even if it's easy as just like completing the lease ups or, or whatever there's a lot of simple things that can be done.

Very creative. Very creative.

This totally makes me think about that book. Who not how. So whenever you're trying to accompl something that's always about, you know, you don't ask how do I make this happen? You know, who do I need to, who do I know that can help or who do I need that's going to help me.

Yep.

Which is absolutely true. Well Mark, we are coming to an end with our time. I just really want to thank you. You have like really shed multiple golden nuggets for our listeners. How can, how can our listeners and viewers get in touch with you?

So I'm at Raise Capital R a z e capital.com and then my cell if they want to reach out is 5853-1497-9058-5314-9790. If they shoot me a text that's usually the best way to communicate with me and then I'll get over my calendly link and we can schedule a time for a call.

I love that personal touch.

That's a personal touch that's very different than many of the folks that we talk with.

Yeah, yeah. I've done a lot of marketing over the years and you wouldn't, you wouldn't believe how many people are just, you know, they're in this and they spend so much time working on the perfect marketing and the back channel and the CRM and the drips and all this and they, they, they don't close and they get the lead and then it just goes nowhere. You know I've, I've sent so many emails to people where their follow up has just either been non existent or just like so far late that it's even today. I got an email response from an email that I sent in January and it was somebody, you know, it was early on when I probably right after the raise masters thing and I was thinking that I wanted to be an LP versus a gp, you know, just to do, do an LP deal. And I sent this individual I was like, hey, you know, I came across you on this podcast, xyz and I like what you're doing, I like what you're investing in. You know, I would, I, I want to hear more. You know, I'm a prospective investor. And then today, this morning I got a response. I'm like, I didn't even remember who it was. I had to go back and read my original email. But yeah, I think part of the secret to, the secret to closing anything is just being real with people and being able to deliver on what you say. So, you know, if I get something coming in and I'm gonna react and I'm gonna to do the follow up and if I don't have the capacity to do the follow up, I need to have a system, right? I need to have people, I need to have who's in my pipe and I gotta have a good system for those who's to be able to deliver on all this incoming stuff. So I think really setting yourself up for success means finding those who's. And then, you know, I treat everything like ping pong. So if something comes at me, then I just hit it right back, right? I don't want to wait to hit it back. If you wait to hit something back, then the person is just left wondering if did they hear what I said? Are they going to respond? Is this the right person? Why is it taking so long? So it's so simple. You just hit it back. You don't even have to have the answer. You just have to say, hey, I'm going to get the answer. And then, you know, if you, if you can't get the answer yourself in a timely manner, then you have a system where that answer is going to get answered and it's going to move on down the chain. And you know that the people that you put in place are going to handle the same way like ping pong. So that's why I try to teach everybody in my organization like we're ping pong players.

It's such a simple, it's such a simple practice, but so effective.

Yes, it really is. Well, thank you so much for your time today. Really appreciate it. And I love the personal touch on the phone number. Just shoot you a text, certainly go to your website, but you're going to respond. And so I think that's, that's key. Well, thank you so much again. And we are Robin and Courtney with Ladies Kicking Assets and you can always like and subscribe to our channel. Please share this podcast today with your friends. I think Mark has shared such great takeaways today that just anybody can really implement in their in their line of business at any point in time. And you've been very successful with just the basic strategies. So really, thank you so much for sharing those things.

Thanks so much for having me on, guys.

You are welcome. Thank you.

Have a great day.