ADHD Coach vs Therapist: Why Clients Need Both to Talk

Hello there. I'm Danielle Ralston. I am the founder and head coach here at ND Out Loud. What is ND Out Loud? ND Out Loud is a team of neurodivergent coaches. We are neurodivergent, every single one of us. TBIs, PTSD, ADHD, autism, ADHD, and so much more. Bipolar disorder, all of the things. We also have a passion for supporting others like us so you don't have to struggle like we did in our past. We have All taken trainings and certifications and all of that so that we can support you in living a better life and upgrading all of the things that are frustrating about your life. What is this session going to give you? This session is going to give you actionable tips. So yes, we're gonna talk about our programs and all of the things that we offer, but I want you to walk away with something actionable for something that is overwhelming, frustrating, or just plain annoying you right now in your life. Or if you're a parent or a spouse of someone with neurodivergence, To help them as well. I want you to walk away with something today, so please sign up today for a free call. We can learn more about each other. Good morning, good morning, good morning! I hope you're having an awesome day. This is Danielle and Tara with ND Out Loud and ND Hive, and we're talking as therapists and coach. Tara is our therapist on team and licensed in Virginia and Florida and working on licensing all of the places.

Yes.

And I am obviously an ADHD CCSP, ex-therapist and coach, and we are talking about why therapists need to collaborate more with coaches. And this is something that I as a coach actually run into a lot, and I don't know if there— if Tara has seen this on the therapy side, but as a coach, I will have therapists refuse to collaborate with me even though their client wants me to. I've had therapists refuse to work with a coach because you don't know anything and you obviously can't— aren't a professional and can't help. I've had been called some pretty nasty names, like I'm an idiot, things like that, instead of looking at a coach as somebody to fully support their client in ways that they can't.

Mm-hmm.

Especially ND Hive is really a bit different than a normal one-on-one coach. We do one-on-one coaching, but we offer daily, consistent, all-day-long support. When a therapist can't do that, and I don't think a therapist wants to do that either, because I can't imagine the burnout.

Mm-hmm.

And as a coach, the only reason why we can do that is we have a whole team, because I, as one coach, could also not offer that level of support. But what have you seen from your side as far as therapists working with coaches?

That's a loaded question. It's unfortunate that there seems to be such a disconnect between coaches and therapists. And I really saw the disconnect from a therapist side when I went to the CHAD conference last year and saw like so many, you know, LCSWs and LPCs and the comments that they were making about, you know, Why is this presentation run by a coach? Why are there so many coaches here? Why is it the Coaches Foundation? And it's like, we can all coexist in the same space. And just because somebody is a coach and not an LPC or LCSW doesn't make them less than. Their letters after our names, like, yes, they're credentials, but at the end of the day, they're letters. They don't, you know, Quantify what you know, how you're able to interact with people. And I just think that if there was more collaboration, that it would be so much better and a well-oiled machine that it isn't right now, because there is such a disconnect. Because what I've gathered on the therapist side is so many people feel like coaches are stepping into a lane that they're not supposed to be in. But that is not true. However, just like on the therapist side, like there's coaches that cross the line when they shouldn't, you know, and are trying to do EMDR and talk about trauma and things that a coach should not be touching. You know, that is for the clinical therapist side of things, but both can coexist and both need to and should.

So I'm going to talk about it from— and this, I'm going to try not to get on my soapbox. We, uh, we have a very short amount of time today, so I will not get on my soapbox. Coaches don't belong crossing lines. Coaches are not here to treat people. We are not here to treat trauma. We shouldn't even be talking about trauma other than how trauma affects daily life. Like, you have this trauma and you hear somebody else's voice in your head instead of being able to take action, and, and it affects your executive function. That is the only place a coach should be touching trauma. Coaches should not be doing CBT, EBT.

Mm-hmm.

REBT, NLP, which is a huge thing in the coaching world of training coaches in neuro-linguistic programming. We should not be touching that. And this is somebody who has a degree and could be a therapist if I chose to be licensed and do my clinical stuff, which I refuse to do because I'm ADHD and I don't like rules. I'm very open about that, but I could be doing what Tara does if I wanted to. To follow the rules. And I don't like to follow rules, so I like coaching. And that's an amazing thing about coaching, but it's also to the detriment of clients because coaches should not be treating mental health issues. So that is an issue. And I understand from a therapist standpoint why they're very hesitant to work with a lot of coaches. But that's also why here at ND High we have people like Dr. Jessica, and we have Tara, and we have others, and we check in with each other as coaches to make sure we aren't crossing those lines. Because I know it's really hard as a coach to not step in and want to help, like, especially if you're neurodivergent. We just want to help. So it's really hard sometimes to not cross those lines, but it's super important as a coach that we aren't crossing those lines because we are damaging potential collaborations and relationships when we're doing that.

Mm-hmm. And causing harm to the, the client that you're working with. You know, it goes to what I always talk about with a lot of my clients of intention versus impact. You know, you can have the best intentions, you know, but the impact can be harmful. And I remember at the CHAD conference, I don't know if you saw it, but there was a table where it was a university that was doing a survey on coaches. And I had asked them like why they were doing it. And they said, well, we have a lot of concern That there's no like accrediting body slash like regulation. And it's like, but that's also kind of the point of coaching. And yes, there needs to be some sort of regulation because I have met really bad coaches in the same way that I've also met really bad therapists. I mean, they exist in every single field. You're not going to get rid of that.

No, absolutely not. And I think what concerns me about the accreditation is currently the accreditation in the coaching industry is the the new MLM. It's coaching, coaching coaches, coaches coaching coaches, and charging exorbitant amounts of money for it. And I think— I mean, I also think college charging what they charge is absolutely ridiculous, and don't get me started on that. But the coaching industry has just become a cash cow for people who want to change and help and do those things.

Mm-hmm.

We want to put that aside. How can Therapists and coaches collaborate together. And I love what you and I get to do. And this is why we want to have this conversation. And I have a couple other therapists that I actually collaborate with that are not part of ND Hive because they have huge practices and things like that.

Right.

But they refer clients to me constantly and they fill out the forms to allow me as a coach to talk to their therapist and their therapist to talk to me so that we make sure that we're supporting and not crossing lines with one another.

Right. I think, you know, having the collaboration of, hey, this is what I'm working on with this client. You know, if this shows up or if this client starts acting this way, or you see this client start changing behaviors and doing this, encourage them. If you start seeing more anxiety come out because we're addressing trauma and you see it in their executive functioning, let me know. You know, things like that, I think, can be so helpful to the client.

Yeah.

And much needed also, because we're on an uphill battle here and we really, as neurodivergent providers working with neurodivergence, we really need to come together rather than be on 2 opposite ends because that's not helpful for anybody. And the person that's really losing is the client.

And this is where a coach can help a therapist. And I obviously, I have, I think, 9 therapists I work with as a mentor coach. And what does that mean? That means that they're coming to me, hey, I have a client, I need support because I don't fully understand neurodivergence. There isn't enough training about this. Can you help me? And I have 9 therapists that come to me and ask those questions. Because they do trust— I mean, we've worked together. One of them, I worked with her son, and now she comes to me for her practice. And Tara, that's where Tara and I actually connected, is she was coming to me to help fill in gaps that she didn't have in her training. Coaches and therapists can support each other in a fantastic way.

Yes.

And there are things that I will go to Jessica about and go to Tara about. And I've had other therapists I've worked with in the past and say, hey, I've got this client. And this is the wall I'm hitting with them. And I don't want to cross this line with them because that is into therapy, but they need coaching around this area. Can we work together on this? And can you help me create a plan so that you're doing this with them and I'm doing this with them?

Mm-hmm.

I will say in the last year, I have 2 clients I have awesome therapist-coach relationships with, and neither of— both of those clients need One-on-one coaching anymore or one-on-one therapy anymore because that relationship helped them grow beyond it. And I think that's something that therapists and coaches forget is that we're supposed to be working ourselves out of a job.

Yeah, but it gets lost. It gets lost in the mix and it's really unfortunate.

It's so sad to me that, and I see this on both sides, that therapists as business owners and coaches as business owners are so worried about losing that income That they lose the purpose of what your job is. I want my clients to have to stop working with me. Now I have a $19.99 program, a month program that is specifically for those clients that don't need one-on-one coaching, but they need continued support and action-taking space. So I have built that in. And honestly, I will tell 90% of clients that if you've been working with a therapist or a coach for a while, just go to the group program cuz you don't need one-on-one.

Mm-hmm.

One-on-one should be a very temporary thing that you need. Do we all need coaching and support at times?

Yeah.

But in a group program, you can get that at a very low cost and, and do all of those things.

Yes.

Do you need a therapist all the time if you have a lot of trauma? It could take years. I mean, and honestly, it can take, yeah, as somebody who's been in therapy for a very long time because it's trauma.

Same.

10, 10, 20. I mean, it can take 10 years, but the job of a therapist is still to be working themselves out of a job.

100%. And I always, you know, mention that to my clients in the very beginning. Like, you know, my goal is for you to not be here anymore. And to not feel like you need to come see me anymore. And do I have clients that I've been working with long-term? Yes. Is it because there's a lot of trauma? Yes. Is it also because they're neurodivergent and need that consistency, even if it's just once a month, to tell me like, hey, this is how life is going, so that if something goes wrong, they have that, you know, connection kind of continuing? But No, it should not be a forever thing on a weekly basis. I think that just fosters codependency, and that's not what we want either.

Absolutely.

Either service.

Well, yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, we have some cool things that are coming here in D Out Loud and D-Hive is we're actually going to start creating some content specifically for therapists. Tara is taking on creating a better neurodivergent feelings wheel because I will tell you the feelings wheel that exists And this has been, this was a major discussion on our last team meeting of the wheel does not work for those of us that are, especially those of us that are on the autism scale. This does not work if you have a lumpemia, thymia, however you say it. It does, the feelings wheel means zero.

Yeah.

So how do we make this better for therapists to use in their practice? Because I know therapists and I've talked to so many therapists that are like, the feelings wheel, I cannot get my client to understand this.

Mm-hmm.

And we're gonna be creating other neurodivergent-centered trainings, workbooks, templates, protocols, things like that for therapists.

Yeah.

And I know Tara is also creating the coaches on our team some things for coaching that we need that therapist backup for. It is so important for this relationship to be strong, and not just because I'm looking to make money off a therapist or anything like that, but we need to find a better way to collaborate with one another. If you are a therapist and you're like, geez, I wish I could find a coach I could trust. Reach out to us. We have six coaches. We all have other degrees beyond coaching that are in this area to work in mental health and to work with neurodivergence. So we are unique in that aspect in this practice because I don't believe that coaching certifications are enough. Do I have a coaching certification program? Yes, because coaching certifications aren't enough, and the coaching certification industry, especially for ADHD neurodivergent. Well, there is very little for autism at this point. We— that is something that we want to do because so many of those with ADHD have autism as well. We want to change. We want to change the messaging. We want to change the support that's out there for our clients because that's the goal. So we want to support our clients better. If you are a therapist and have questions, reach out to Tara or I. Either of us can answer your questions.

Yes.

If you are a coach who wants more support and wants to connect with therapists so that you can be Creating better support for your clients, reach out to us. We will, even if Tara is not operating in a state that you need her to, we will find you a therapist who is neurodivergent friendly because there, unfortunately, there are more people that put neurodivergence and ADHD on their websites than are actually qualified to do so.

Yes.

Let us know and we will help you make those connections and find the right collaborations that you need for your practice, whether it's coaching, Or therapy. Have an amazing day. Reach out to us at ND Hive. We actually have a deal that kicks off today for ND Hive. We're giving 50% off the first month. So $9.99 for the first month. And to help you get in, see our training and get, start getting support and find the support they actually need.

That's what, like less than 2 cups of coffee worth?

It's less than one DoorDash order a month.

Right.

The cost of DoorDash is getting ridiculous, by the way. But that, that's another—

That is another.

Yes. Have an amazing day, everyone. If you have any questions, please let us know.