ADHD in the Workplace as an ADHD Employee

Hello, hello, hello. This is Danielle and Tim with ND Out Loud, and we're talking about ADHD in the workplace, but from the employee side today. We really want to make sure that we're— it is still ADHD Awareness Month, almost over, and we want to make sure that employees understand how they can create their own accommodations and support themselves and ask for the support that they need.

Yeah. And I mean, you know, employees in general are kind of in a place that they've really never been at before, in which, given the fact that the labor market has a shortage that is only going to be getting worse over the next 5 to 7 years, that they're in a place now in which employers— and not all employers, because there are quite a few that are still not understanding the dynamics of the labor market, and that's a whole other discussion that we've had. several times, but employers in general are kind of understanding that they really need to work better in retaining employees. So you're in a place in which you can perhaps be in a place of requesting certain things that are not really hard-asked, probably more than ever. So, you know, we're going to talk a little bit about like what that would look like and how you may be able to approach your employer. And then we, you know, we at NDLA kind of hit it from the other perspective of really encouraging employers to bring us on to do professional development trainings for management, for corporate level, like C-suite level, and maybe slightly below, and really train them on workplace dynamics and what they can do better from their perspective. But yeah, we're going to talk specifically on the employee side today.

One of the big things that I want you as someone with ADHD, neurodivergent, hidden disability, even maybe a visible disability, I mean, Tim, is a fairly visible disability. He wears hearing aids, so you can tell. So you can accommodate yourself. There are accommodations that you can provide yourself. Maybe you're like questioning, well, how can I do that in the workplace? It's really easy. One of the first ones that I always talk about with most people is— Either noise-canceling headphones or loop earplugs. These are things that most of us that have sensory overwhelm to sound already own. Take them to work with you.

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, it's interesting. I've got a dear friend of mine who is tapping into his local vocational rehabilitation program for employment assistance and job search assistance. But in his previous role that he had, he had come to realize that that program allowed him to purchase some really nice Bose noise-canceling headphones because that was one of his major issues with online meetings in terms of distractions. And not having the right technology to be able to conduct those meetings well. And then he realized the benefit from that point on about how more productive you would be able to be at work and being able to have what was a fairly simple purchase. So the 2 layers that I can add in that is that if you have your own, which many people do, use them. But 2, you can tap into a local program, and within just really a few weeks, you can have That program actually help you purchase whatever it is that you need to be able to be more successful at your job. So there's so many benefits in that. And, you know, a lot of what we're going to be talking about is very simple things that are—

Oh yeah, absolutely. And something, if you're a manager or a leader, like a shift leader or something, something to keep in mind is any of these things that we mention don't just work for somebody with a disability. They're good for all employees. Everybody gets distracted. Those of us with ADHD, autism, sensory overwhelm, all of those things get way more distracted. Yes. But everybody is distracted in the workplace. Noise-canceling headphones, if you work in cubicle farms, are fantastic. And most everybody already owns them. So it's not necessarily something that you as a company have to even invest in. Just allow people to use them. End of story.

Yeah, I have, I have noise-canceling ears where I just can just turn off my hearing aid and then I'll be done. And I know in our childhood there'll be times that I would really get people upset by just turning my hearing aids when you're trying to tell me something. So yeah, I have selective hearing. But, you know, obviously I'm trying to be funny, but there really is a lot of value in that.

There is. There is. I mean, for me, and I had this conversation with one of my other coaches who went back to the workforce, she's working in an office again. She was really struggling. And she's another— she's ADHD. And I'm like, combine your loop earbuds, the earplugs that I already know you own with your noise-canceling headphones. She's like, Oh, yep. I didn't think about combining them. She already owns everything. And noise-canceling headphones, just so you know, don't have to be Bose, don't have to be Beats headphones, don't have to be AirPods. You— Amazon actually has a couple brands that are in the $30 range that work very, very well. Their battery life isn't as good as some of the really high-end ones. But they work fantastic and they can get you through the workday. So you don't have to spend big money on these things as an employer or an employee if you need them for yourselves. Fidgets. If you get distracted easily, having a fidget on your desk— and I have— I'm not going to show you. I can't hold—

You have many of them.

On my desk. I have tons of fidgets, but things like that make it easier for me to concentrate in a meeting. Great. Having the closed captioning on, on a Zoom call or a Teams call.

Yep.

That's free. It's included. It's already in the software. Use it.

Yeah. Um, and, you know, it was interesting, um, in the beginning of the pandemic, the one thing that I really advocated for was to make sure that we had Microsoft Teams because at the time that was the best, um, live captioning that they had at the time. So yeah, I mean, and, um, you know, and then tapping into some of the now AI tools that they have For recording meetings and being able to then recap whatever it is that we learned as a result. So that's fine. I just requested that my girlfriend get me some Kleenex for my cold, and she walked by with Kleenex but doesn't give them to me because she has ADHD. So she probably forgot. So anyways, hopefully she comes back. But yeah, so, you know, closed captioning and using the tools that are already built into all these platforms for the AI recording And all that. It's huge.

Zoom alone gives you the closed captioning now, has an AI companion where you can do a summary of your call with— that'll break it down for you. You can get a full— inside of Zoom, if you have the paid version of Zoom, you can get the full word-for-word transcription, and it's pretty darn good. And these are things you've already got. Teams does all of the same stuff. Google Meet.

Pretty good. Pretty good.

It's okay. The, the closed captioning is good, but the summary and the AI transcription—

yeah, Google Meet is not really meant to be a professional platform for professional meetings. Um, I, you know, I, I've used it more than I've wanted to lately, but yeah, I, I do agree with that. So like, you know, as an employee, I don't think it's a big ask for you to ask your employer if they're using a platform that's not quite as accessible, like I did back in the beginning of the pandemic where we're just doing Zoom. And I'm like, now can we do Microsoft Teams? And it wasn't really that big of a deal. So yeah, that's huge. And then, you know, like some of the other things we've talked about in the past, and that it'd be good to reiterate, is something as simple as maybe a sign by your door that said you're in focused work mode. Or making sure that you have your devices on focus mode when you're really working on a project, and that you— that your supervisors understand that when you're in that sort of mode. Because I know, I know how I am with my ADHD. Well, there are times where I am focused and I want to get the thing done. And I'm super productive. So for that hour and a half, 2 hours that I'm really like focused on that task, I'm doing it. It's being done well, and, you know, understanding the dynamics of your employees and understanding that, okay, for the next hour and a half, I'm not gonna let— I'm not gonna bother Tim because whatever it is that I need can wait. So that, that is fine. And then, you know, maybe put, put in a curtain by your door. You know, I know you've talked about that desk orientation, moving a desk in a certain direction because of Perhaps natural light, or for someone like myself who's hard of hearing, you know, just being able to see people walk in the room is something that I need. And that was something that I did at a previous job, and that worked out really well. So, you know, all simple things that cost nothing or maybe $2.

Allowing employees, like, as an employee, ask about using the conference room when it's not being used for conference like meetings and things so that you aren't in cubicle area. Most companies really don't have an issue with this. If you have a manager that has an issue with this, that's another discussion. But understanding that you can ask for simple things like that. A lot of companies, bigger companies now have mental health spaces. They have a quiet room. Go to that and do an hour of focus work. Sign it out. Use those tools that do exist. And I know that some of that is a mental stigma and having a stigma for using those tools. Use them whether you have a disability or not. If you are a neurotypical and you're watching this and you just— your toddler didn't sleep last night and you need a break from stimuli, go use those mental health spaces. Use that quiet conference room. Do the thing. Get yourself that cup of coffee and, and go focus for a little while. It's for everyone. And, and I think that's something that a lot of companies are getting wrong, is they're, well, if I do it for one person, I have to do it for everybody. Well, yeah, you should be doing it for everybody.

Yeah, yeah. You know, um, I've mentioned in the past that one of my previous employers had a room that you could close the door that was really kind of a— it would, it was like a multi-use room, but it had a couch in it. And it was used for nursing mothers. So like when we had a few in our office that were in that part of their life, it was used for that. But then also just a place where I could bring my laptop and just sit on the couch and work in that type of environment, because for whatever reason, from a sensory standpoint, that was what was best for myself and other employees. Conference rooms, like sometimes I just like to be in a dark conference room. With no distractions and at a big, big long table and just sit in the middle and get work done there. So allowing your employees to be flexible in regards to scheduling out a 45-minute block in a conference room that works free and it's not being used for something, then why not let your employee use that?

Exactly. Allow— I have a client right now who had to ask permission, and don't be this manager. Had to ask permission to sit under his desk to do work.

Okay.

Why was that? Why did an adult have to ask permission to do that, first of all?

Right.

And second of all, he said it makes him so much more productive for him to be able to sit under the desk and be out of the lights. And just, it feels like he's in a tunnel and he can hyperfocus and get work done. He said he got 10 hours worth of work done in 3 hours because he sat under his desk.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, I know that. That's kind of like— I think this is probably a good time to bring up the next layer in this, is in terms of communicating these needs to your supervisors or to your company, no matter what the structure is.

The—

There might be a little, like, obviously every situation is a little different. So, you know, we can't, like, what I'm about to say, it's probably not a blanket solution for every employer. It should be, but it's not. Is don't be afraid to ask. It's that simple. Like, be in a place in which you're confident in yourself to express maybe some vulnerability. And, you know, put out like an authentic self, you know, be your most authentic self and saying, you know, like, I have these issues and if I'm able to get this and that, I am going to be more productive. And there's so many people that are afraid to, first of all, disclose, which, you know, that's a whole other discussion. On the employer side, you need to be in a place in which your employees feel more comfortable enough to disclose that they have a disability because that may actually benefit the whole company. We've talked about that in the past, but also just to be in a place of just being vulnerable and sitting down and having that honest conversation with your supervisor, your direct report, or maybe your HR department, and say, I really need these very simple things, because like what we talked about, none of that is too complicated. But be in a place to do that. I have my Kleenex now. So, you know, I'll let you comment on that.

So one of the big things is you can ask for support. All of these things that we mentioned, being able to wear noise-canceling headphones, asking for transcriptions of meetings, having closed captioning on, you can actually ask for those things without disclosing you have a disability. This would make me more productive if, I would be more productive if, I would get more, be able to focus better if. Just approach your manager in that way to start, especially if you're new. The other big piece that I have is, especially for my neurodivergents who tend to wait to disclose until they're about to lose their job because everything's a disaster, don't wait that long. Disclose before there's an issue because you're covering your butt. I mean, this is covering your butt. Ask, disclose before that happens. Disclose before you're late for 2 months straight. Disclose before you miss points in a meeting and have I totally lost track of tasks. Ask for those things to start with. And again, you don't have to disclose a disability for that, to ask for those things.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That is a really good point. And I don't know. I mean, I really wish that we were in a world in which we could just blanket disclose and it'd be okay. And I think more and more employers are in a better place for that. Not enough, obviously. But like some of the employers that we've talked to are— they're just completely open with us and their employees are as well. And even within that, there's a lot of issues that still need to be resolved. You know, there's never— there's no such thing as a perfect workplace. But yeah, like I really wish we were in a better place for that, which is why that's where NDI Loud comes in to kind of help with that.

I really wish and hope for someday that nobody needs to ever hire me again because my job is a non-issue. I would love that the consulting, my consulting side was not needed. I would love that. And that's what we're doing here, why we go live, why we talk about these things, because we want a better world for all of us that have disabilities, visible, invisible, whatever. So again, you don't have to necessarily disclose. You can just ask for increasing your productivity, increasing your focus, all of those things. And that's where you can start, especially in a new place until you get to know your manager. If your manager is a problem— and again, I've talked about we don't leave jobs, we leave bad managers— if your manager is a problem, I want you to keep something in mind. HR is not there to support you. It's there to support the business. So you need to handle it very carefully. Don't go off. Don't criticize your manager. All of these things. Make sure that you have a note from your doctor and you start the conversation. If you have to go above a manager, you start the conversation with your documentation. Unfortunately, we have to go from, from trying to do it gently to the extreme. But unfortunately, that's where we are now in a lot more companies than it should be. Unfortunately, bad managers can be changed, can be trained. All of those things. But HR, if you don't go in with all of your stuff in a row and all of your ducks and all of your documentation, if you go in there the wrong way to start, you're going to have an uphill battle or a losing battle with HR, unfortunately. And I wish I didn't have to say that, but I do, because HR is not there for the employees. HR, again, is there for the company. And we're really trying hard to work with HR representatives to teach HR representatives to do better. But It's not there yet. So you have to have things in a row. How do you know what to have in a— all your ducks in a row? What paperwork do I need to have? How do I ask for accommodations?

All of those.

Unfortunately, that's a very, very deep conversation, and it's a per-person conversation. It's not a— I can't tell you how to do it because you— Tim has very different needs than I do, and they have to be approached very, very differently than mine do. All of these things. And that's where, like, hiring an ADHD coach, hiring a workforce development person, going and working with the Vocational Center for Disabilities can help you do those things. All of those things are available to you to make sure you have all of the things in place to then go into your company if you, if you can't do it just with your manager.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm a big advocate for the vocational rehabilitation piece of it, um, because You know, I'm the chair of the board that oversees Idaho's system, and I actually just had a whole all-day meeting yesterday for one of our quarterly meetings for that. So it's all very fresh in my mind. But, you know, so I like— I will acknowledge that every state is a little different in how they approach their vocational systems, and some states are not very good at it, and other states are much better at it. And then like Idaho is a state that's in transition right now. But regardless of what stigmas are attached to your local vocational rehabilitation program, I really encourage all individuals that have a disability that has been disclosed, that's been diagnosed. And like, even if you're in a place in which you think you have a disability and you haven't been officially diagnosed, go to your local vocational rehabilitation program.

They can help you get your diagnosis.

Yeah, they can, and they can really help you with so many things. And then what's great in that, if you have an issue, let's say 4 years later after you've entered the Vocational Rehabilitation program, they can help you at that time. So getting into the system and being— having them be there in case something does come up, like we just talked about, having them in your corner is huge. So I, uh, that, that's a big thing that I'm, I'm no matter what, I'm always going to encourage individuals to be part of that system.

And if you are just going to school, if you happen to be going to college and things, I will tell you, as somebody in college, as somebody who has struggled with that my whole entire life, school has always been difficult. They are, they are my biggest advocates. They have helped me so much. They've helped me find the success in my work life, school life that I would not have without them. Even now where I am, they are fantastic and amazing. So I definitely suggest that you do that. And if you are somebody who was diagnosed as a child or in high school, whatever, and having a hard time making that transition into adult job life, they can help you with taking that diagnosis and translating it into work life stuff. So they are really like, I can't speak Highly enough as somebody who has used them multiple times. I've never worked for them, but definitely use them.

Yeah, yeah. So that's— maybe this is a good time to kind of shift gears a little bit to talk about, again, circling back to what the crux of this conversation, what we started off with, it's like self-accommodation and like how you can accommodate for yourself. So, you know, like you can talk about government systems coming in and helping you with that, which is good. You know, sometimes it's needed, but there's a lot of things that you can do yourself. So I put out some, you know, different things here that, you know, and just a little research for this conversation. So things like tools and techniques for focus. So you have time blocking. So break up the day into manageable blocks for specific tasks. This technique allows for focus on one task at a time, and that reduces the possibility of being overwhelmed by the full picture.

So something I'm going to add to that is time blocking requires having good boundaries. You cannot allow— and no employer should be constantly micromanaging and bothering an employee during work time. And this is a corporate thing. We see a lot of memes and jokes and stupid videos on this and all of that. But you as the employee have to have good boundaries and say, no, this is my work time. No, I can't attend that meeting. That I am not essential for that meeting. I need to be working on XYZ. You told me that this was a priority. Therefore, it is a priority. And reiterating the boundaries that they have created for you in expectations and standing up for those and for yourself. Because time blocking does not work if you allow somebody else to micromanage and constantly be adding meetings or telling you, pulling you 12 different directions. Adding you to 12 projects, which is not humanly possible. All of these things.

Yeah, I don't know how many times I've sent memes to coworkers from across the conference table, you know, saying this could have been an email. Like, I did not need to sit down for the 45-minute, hour, hour-and-a-half meeting. So yeah, that's huge. And like, it's okay to ask for that. It really is.

And again, that has nothing to do with being Having a disability at all, that is just— hello? Have good— having good boundaries, not people pleasing, not trying to be a perfectionist about following. I kind of, kind of call it the brown-nosing syndrome sometimes in that you have to have good boundaries. If you don't, you are never going to have good work-life balance, and you're actually not going to have good manager-employee relationship either. If you're constantly not putting those boundaries in place.

Yeah. You know, like, I, I can imagine that most employers would be like, hmm, he really wants to focus on his job rather than having a meeting. I'm, you know, that's not something to be mad at.

So— Unfortunately, mid-level managers don't think that way.

Yeah.

There's a lot of mid-level managers who are not well trained. And, and I think that that's something that, that we as employees need to start speaking up about more is my manager has no idea how to manage a team. Can we get them some training, please?

Yeah, you know, not to distract, but like when you're talking about like fidget things, I'm like holding on to the thing the whole time that we're having this conversation because, you know, it's weird. I just noticed that I'm doing that anyways. So, you know, same thing, kind of the same realm with task prioritization. So using tools, and this is the term that I heard a while ago and I just, I'm hearing it again, the Eisenhower Matrix, which helps employees categorize tasks by urgency and importance. So this was especially helpful when, when, when people with ADHD tend to jump from task to task sometimes. I, I know I do that.

So we also have a hard time even using the Eisenhower Matrix to create that prioritization. ChatGPT, Goblin Tools, those are just 2 free options that are out there, and you can literally put all of your tasks in there with their due dates. And, and ask it, what is my top priority for right now?

Yep.

That's all you have to do. And it's fantastic.

I love ChatGPT. Like, I'm, I'm in a place now. What, you know, remember way back in the day when we didn't have GPS in our phones or in our cars, and we're like, how do we get to that place without our GPS? And now I'm like, how do I go through my workday without ChatGPT? Like, it's so—

Oh, yes. So I use ChatGPT, I use Gobblin Tools, and then I also have an AI tool called Sintra, which is a whole entire team of AI tools. I use them my own. It is my executive function most days. Yeah.

And that, you know, like, let's talk about the executive functioning piece of it, because that's actually what's gonna be my next thing, the importance of executive functioning. But what is it? Because like it's a term that we use a lot, but we don't like—

So what executive function is, executive function is time management, planning, prioritization, emotional regulation. All of that is part of executive function. And when we're overwhelmed in any one of those areas, all of them go out the window. So decision fatigue is a big result of executive dysfunction. And being able to prioritize, being able to manage our time, all of those things. And this is where AI is fantastic. I know that I'm talking to my developer. We're building in some, some AI that is background AI to our coaching app so that people can use things like a, a type of task management and prioritization and all of that within our own app. And a lot of apps are starting to do that and build that in more. Because decision fatigue is one of the biggest pieces of overwhelm, especially if you're neurodivergent. And if you can't make those decisions, can't prioritize your time, can't manage your time. So it's not just prioritizing, it's managing. I think this task is going to take me 9 hours. How often as an ADHDer do you think something— you don't do something because you think it's gonna take you 9 hours. But if I put it in Goblin Tools or ChatGPT, they're like, oh, that's a 5-minute task. And you're like, Yeah.

Yep.

No, it's not. And I have argued with ChatGPT before. Yes, that's me. Um, and, and it's proven to me and broke it down. And I'm like, oh, I have time to do that right now then, instead of waiting 6 weeks to do the thing that will be seriously behind because it feels like it's overwhelming. Removing the decision fatigue, the prioritization, and the time management piece All in one shot makes it a task I can get done easily. And then I'm also trying to beat the clock because I'm gonna choose prove ChatGPT wrong and do it in less time.

Yeah, I know, I know. It's so huge. Okay, so some of the other things like, you know, the things like habit stacking, making sure that you have a good morning routine before you go into your, your, your workday. You know, making sure that you really have like a wind down at the end of your day. So like you're providing structure at the beginning, at the end. You're, you're, you know, like, like that, that would like the work-life balance comes into play. Those are also really big, and those are not necessarily something that would be something that you need to do in the workplace, but it's something that really affects how you, how well you work in the workplace, especially if you work from home. So that, you know, working from home is really big. So like making sure that you have some, you know, just built-in time in your day in which you really kind of provide some structure is really going to help you with completing your tasks that you need to get done.

Absolutely.

I mean, yeah, yeah.

So I don't have much to add to that without repeating what I've already said.

I know. Just trying to think of some other things with this. Structured support systems. So offering clear and written expectations and regular feedback for employees with ADHD helps them stay aligned and adjust as needed. So—

But again, this is something that, that's something you can ask for without disclosing your ADHD or whatever. You can say, hey, I really need more feedback on here. Can we get this, all the tasks in writing so I'm really, really clear on my next steps so there's no miscommunication? Like all of these things are things you can ask for without disclosing anything at all.

Yeah, I know. That seemed to be like where the conversations are going, that you don't necessarily need to disclose.

We need to be able to disclose. Let me get that very, very clear. But unfortunately, I know the reality, but it's mid-level managers that are the reality issue for the most part that I'm seeing in how I work with clients. Mid-level managers are where the issue is. So how can we create better accommodations for ourselves without having to take that scary step of disclosing.

Yeah, yeah, I know. But I keep going back though, that, you know, the— just overall, and I think in our whole world, we're kind of in a place of there's really a lack of authenticity when it comes to how we deal with each other. And when it comes to friendships, when it comes to conversations you have at the store or your employees, coworkers, managers, And like, if you're in a place in which you are genuinely authentic with yourself and with other people around you, it reverberates. And I think like, you know, just being in a place— and I know there are circumstances where this doesn't work when you have people on the other end that are the complete opposite of being authentic. But, you know, like, I genuinely feel that most people are good and they want to be good and they want to be the best versions of themselves. And if you are the type of person that inspired that, then you're in a place in which you're, you're eventually creating that environment that you want in the workplace.

Exactly.

Yeah.

And, and, and it's like I said, it's sad. I know what our reality is right now. We're trying to— you and I specifically, ND Out Loud, is trying to change that reality, but it's not changed yet. So how do we adapt and deal with that right now?

Well, like, when you're in a But yes, I know, I know what you're saying. But like when you're in a place in which that like your authenticity is coming out, then that's where we come in to really kind of help with—

Yes.

The knowledge base that is needed for a good foundational element to create a place that's a workplace that is where you're comfortable in disclosing, culture of disclosure. Then you have a current employee that's done their tenure that realizes, oh, maybe I have ADHD too. That's why I struggle with that, with And now, now you have a whole team that's more productive as a result. So.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, absolutely. And as an employee, so back to the employee piece of this, if you need more support and you're not getting it at work and you're not, I'm gonna be really honest, work is not a place for you to holistically get all the support you need. You need outside support. That's where communities like ND Out Loud come in. That's where having an ADHD coach comes in, whether you're profoundly deaf or autistic or ADHD or bipolar or PTSD or, or, or, or, or, or whatever, having a coach on your side that is there specifically for you to support you the way you need to be supported, to help you be more productive and you grow is really essential.

Yeah, yeah. Um, so, you know, I, I'm kind of in a place where, like, I'm, I'm hitting kind of hitting a wall because I'm in a place of, you know, like, I'm recovering from this cold and So, but yeah, I like, I really, really appreciate this conversation and I really hope that those that are listening really appreciate it as well, which is why we do this. You know, we're generally doing this because we hope that people are listening in. And but what we'd love to hear is feedback from people that are listening to these conversations about whatever perspective that you have regarding this. And—

Where have you been able to accommodate yourself at work? Where, how were you able to disclose at work?

What worked for you?

What was What was a terrible experience? We want to hear the bad experiences, good experiences, everything in between. Let us know, and we are here to help. We are here to help managers. We're here to help companies. We're here to help employees. Let us know how we can help. Again, we are here celebrating, and we really are celebrating ADHD Awareness Month because being aware that ADHD does exist, it is a real diagnosis. It is not an excuse. And we are here to support you in every way you need from absolutely— we have program that is absolutely free all the way up to paid corporate contracts and things like that, let us know how we can help. We're here to support you in so many ways. And if we don't have a way to support you and you find something that you need and we don't offer it, please let me know. I will find the person for you because it is so important for every disabled, visible, invisible, neurodivergent, whatever, to get the support that they need, deserve.

Yeah, absolutely. So we look forward to talking to you next week.

Have an amazing, amazing