Coaching vs. Therapy: Which One Do You Need for ADHD Success?

Good morning, everyone. I hope you're having an awesome day. It's Danielle and Britt here today, and we're talking about— I didn't actually put the title on our screen because I forgot that part, but we are talking about coaching versus therapy and what coaching really is and what it isn't, because even though coaching has been around a long time, People still really aren't sure what a coach is and what it isn't. They really compare that. I think there's too many cross lines between us and therapists a lot of times, at least in people's minds. So what is— so what is it? I'm gonna go what a therapist is. We'll just tackle what a therapist is first because we're not going to talk about it anymore after we approach that. So they focus on your mental health. Emotional well-being. They're going to work on your trauma, your anxiety, your depression, your RSD, emotional regulation. Now, coaches can work on some of these concepts, but they're going to work on them in a very different way. But they're working on underlying psychological and mental health issues with you. That's what a therapist is there for. A therapist will be— is licensed. They tend to have psychology degrees of different— there are so many different versions out there. Whatever. If you are an ADHD person that is looking to work with a therapist, make sure you're working with one that is ADHD-focused, please. That, that is the one piece that I'm going to tell you with the therapist, because not that other therapists can't help you, but an ADHD and a neurodivergent-focused therapist is going to help you a whole lot more than someone that doesn't have that specialized training. And it really is some specialized training. So done talking about therapists. That's what a therapist does. Now, what do coaches do? So what do we do as coaches, Brit?

I like to say I coach coaches to goals. You know, and there's so many different things that a goal can be. But my clients do not come to session just to shoot the shit. Yes, we are not just willy-nilly talking about, whatever may come to their mind. We have a very distinct focus. Now, with ADHD coaching, goals tend to look one of two ways with my clients. And that is like, I have this one goal, right? Like maybe I want to write a book, but my ADHD symptoms are getting in the way. Or my overall goal is to reduce my symptomology and like increase the amount of ADHD tools that I have. And feel practiced with, so that moving forward I feel like I can make my life easier or more manageable.

Absolutely. I always tell people that what I do as a coach is I am your practical life. I help with practical life. Can't get your house clean? Can't take a shower? Can't remember to eat? Can't remember to get dressed, brush your teeth, uh, can't figure out how to create a schedule for yourself. And while that's very goal-oriented, it's more like life skill building. That's— and that's how I always explain it, is a lot of life skills building, because we don't do things like 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. We don't do things that way. That's not how we operate.

You know what other book drives me nuts?

What?

You Are a Badass.

Oh, hate that book.

I, I got 2 pages in and was like, I'm gonna throw this across the room.

I'm pretty sure I did throw it across the room at least a handful of times. I made myself read it because so many ADHDers were coming to me and telling me, my therapist told me to read this. Hence why you need a therapist that understands ADHD. Um, or my therapist told me to get a planner. That's gonna solve nothing. Um, so again, make sure you have a therapist who understands ADHD. But a coach is really strength-based. We're really, really strength-based. We're gonna find where your strengths are and provide the— as Coach Vita says— the scaffolding around you to create strengths where they may not exist.

Absolutely.

And one of my favorite explanations for that is everybody understands who Captain America and the Hulk are and Iron Man. The Hulk just has always got this anger issue and can't get around it and is always feeling it and is always struggling with it. That's pretty much most of us with ADHD. We're always struggling. We've always got the thing. And then you've got Iron Man, who is an ass. He's a very smart ass, but he's an ass. And is it— other than making money for himself, he doesn't really do much. And then he designs the suit because he is really smart. He's got this thing that he creates for himself, and the suit itself, while amazing and creates a structure around him to make him Semi-indestructible actually isn't until he adds a second brain in his head. Once he has Jarvis in his head, he becomes unstoppable. And the things that make him annoying and obnoxious and a horrible, not a very nice person become superpowers by adding a second brain to his head. And that's really what a coach is doing for you. You can buy a planner. You can buy that book, 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. You can read You're a Badass. You can read Atomic Habits, all of these things, and you can get all of this knowledge. But until you add a second brain to your life that can help you apply all of those things, they're worthless to you.

Yeah, they're just collections.

I can, I can have collection. I mean, I have collections of planners and books. And stuff, uh, and none of it does me any good unless somebody helps teach me to apply them. And that's what your coach is for.

Exactly. How do we take what we have and use it appropriately? Um, for people who aren't familiar with superheroes, um, my favorite understanding is, um, if you are into athletics at all, Your coach is like your— Pick a sport. Soccer coach, right? They're not the therapist who helps you deal with injuries and underlying physical problems. They're aware of those things, but they relate to you as well and capable, and they figure out how to take your strengths and weaknesses to maximize your Time on the playing field.

Thank you for a different illustration. I'm a movie buff, so I go to superheroes, and you're lucky you didn't get a Star Wars illustration, basically. But the big thing to really know is your coach is there to be that practical side of life. We're there to help you, and we can actually be your executive function. On days when yours isn't working. We can be your emotional regulation sometimes, believe it or not. We can be your— we could be your organization, your mentor, your motivation, your affirmations, your habit builder. We can, and we can also walk around and hold your hand so that you don't feel alone while doing it all.

Yeah, coaching is a really safe place to experiment with like getting it wrong.

Yeah, because there's zero judgment. Zero judgment.

Zero. I cannot tell you how many times. So like when my— I call them next steps. Um, so when I have newer clients and we discuss, hey, here's what they're gonna do between now and their next session, sometimes they'll show up to their next session and they'll be like Apologizing or criticizing themselves or just feel really bad that maybe they didn't get to a next step or they didn't complete it or they didn't do it in the timing they said they wanted to. And they're like, apologizing to me? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. First of all, there's no gold star for getting it done. And there's certainly no punishment or shaming if you don't. My job is to just get insanely curious about what happened, what made it happen that way, and how can we use that information going forward. That's it. Yeah, that's it. We're—

we've got a lot of advice because you're good. You're— and I'm sorry for people who have— who are coaches who aren't neurodivergent and you're trying to work with neurodivergent people, your heart is in the right place. But let me tell you, you don't have the same experience as those of us that are and live with this every day. And I often joke with my clients, they'll come to me with an issue that they've got to deal with or something that's going on. And I'm like, oh, I know, I know what will work. Have you tried this? And they'll be like, well, you, you're better than Google. You came up with that really fast. I'm like, oh, I've had to try it for myself.

Nope.

No, I'm not. It's not that I'm faster than Google. It's that been there, done that. And that been there, done that, and know how to modify it for myself, for my clients. Of course, I can modify it for a client any day of the week and probably can't do that for myself. I have to ask another coach for me because I struggle with the same things. So it's not— and that's part of why it's such a safe space is because we get it.

Yeah. I find myself laughing in sessions all the time and I have to always feel like I'm not laughing at you. I'm laughing because I'm relating to what you're saying.

Yeah. I tell clients from the beginning, if I giggle, it's because I've been there.

Yeah.

Not— I'm not laughing at you. I'm giggling because I just did that. Probably the same way you did it wrong the first time too. Or maybe the first 9,000 times I tried to do the same thing.

What is a misconception that your newer clients come to the coaching relationship with?

That I am going to heal their ADHD.

Oh. That's a tall order.

Yep. Or that they are so broken that there is no hope. I get both, both people, both sides of that.

That's— I love the second one because by coming to you, they are, whether or not they realize it, they're admitting there's hope.

Yes, they just don't realize.

Yeah.

So yeah, it's, uh, very much a— they come, come to you as a last ditch ever, or they're coming to you because they expect you to solve, solve world hunger and peace and all of those things. And they're always— I, I had one person who did one session with me, and I've only had this happen once, but they got on and they expected me to be able to solve their ADHD for them in less than 90 days. And I said, "Well, no." Whoa! Hold on. No.

Hey, one second. My dog is freaking out. Kevin. I don't know what. Okay. Every now and then, doesn't just have freakouts. She's fine. They expected you to solve their ADHD, and I said, "Nope, can't solve it.

You're not broken, first of all. And number two, ADHD—you were born this way." This is a neurological difference in how your brain is, is created, built, wired, however you want to look at it. And can I help you create a better life with ADHD? Abso-freaking-lutely. If you are willing to work with me and willing to try tools, then we can work on anything together. But I'm not going to fix it for you because I can't.

Right.

They hung up on me and I never heard from them again.

Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.

But this— and I think that's, that's one of the things is that we've been told that we are broken, and broken things can be fixed. Broken things can be glued back together. Broken things can get a medication to solve the problem. All of these things— we're not broken. Yeah. We're not broken. We just haven't learned how we work yet.

Yeah. And I think, you know, something that I believe was Dr. Jessica Meiczak said, when it comes to autism, and specifically what she was speaking of, was like, you know, she said having autism is like being left-handed. It's not that there's anything wrong with you. It's just that most of the world isn't built For you. So you may need to create some accommodations to make things make sense. Mm-hmm. Yes, people who are left-handed can write at a right-handed desk or cut with scissors made for right-handed people, but they're doing a lot of extra work and it's probably uncomfortable. But if you just shift things around a little They can have the same amount of effort as everyone else.

Exactly. And it's— I, I like that left-handed reference. If you wanted to learn to play guitar and as a left-handed person you were handed a right-handed guitar, it's always going to be confusing to you. It's always just not going to feel right. It's always going to feel backwards and upside down and discombobulated. But if you were, the minute you're handed that left-handed guitar, everything starts to make sense. And everything starts to fit together. And now you've got to relearn how to do things the correct way for you. And so many of us that, well, not me, but so many that have been diagnosed as adults or didn't know until they were adults, or I've got, I've got a client who's 70 plus, I won't give her away her actual age and just learned she's ADHD. She's like, my life now makes so much more sense. And she had to go through a grief process because she spent 70-plus years thinking she was just broken and horrible and nasty and stupid and lazy and all of the things that we as ADHDers have heard in our life. Like, she's heard all of the same things. But she didn't get help she needed until she was over 70 years old, and that's just heartbreaking to me. It is heartbreaking to me too, because once you know one, once you know what what's wrong, and again I put that in quotation marks for anybody watching on the podcast. Nothing is wrong with you, but once you learn why. It answers so many questions and solidifies and justifies so much for you that you then can move on and start to learn things to do things in a way that makes more sense for you. And that's all ADHD is, is learning to do things in a way that makes sense for your brain.

It's that simple.

It really is that simple and easy. Amen to that. But the other thing to know is, if you've met one ADHD person or one autistic person or one AuDHD person or whatever, you've met one. We don't all operate exactly the same. So I can't say that this is exactly how you have to plan and this will make you successful every day. No, because I have, I have in my toolbox probably 9,000 ways to plan your day. We just have to find which of those things is going to work for you today. And I will tell you, I have 24 ways to plan. I plan 24 ways. And yes, I've counted. And yes, I've written them down. And yes, I have this all laid out because that's what I switch between. Because some days one type of planning works for me. Some days this works for me.

Yep.

And this works great for me and it keeps me on track. Other days, Post-it notes work for me and writing on my whiteboard. Other days, Bullet journal works for me. Other days I want a different texture paper, a different kind of pen, a different kind of— like, I can't work at my desk. I need to work at the dining room table. I have to work on the couch. I have to lay on the floor on my stomach and work. I need to know what do I need in that moment, understanding my energy levels, understanding my mental capacity for the day, because energy levels and mental capacity don't usually go together for me.

I get that.

And if you have autoimmune disorders or any other chronic illness, you understand what I mean when I say that my brain wants to do things someday and my body is just like, nope, stop. You're— nope, nope, we're not doing anything today. But ADHDers need to know how to recognize this.

Yes. Yes, I've been talking— a conversation that's been coming up with my clients a lot lately has been like the different kinds of rest. Not all rest is created equal. And, you know, so many times we find we're exhausted and it's not because we needed physical rest, but we needed cognitive rest or sensory rest or creative rest.

Or for me, I may need a squirrel day, which is none of those things and is me going purposefully giving my brain every sensory experience it needs all at the same time.

I love squirrel days.

I love squirrel days. I really need one. That's not happening anytime soon. I'm going to Disney World next week, so that'll— that's good enough. Uh, but squirrel days, when you have a squirrel day, because a lot of ADHDers are very confused when I talk about squirrel days. What is your squirrel days? What do— what does a typical squirrel day look like for you?

Uh, I usually don't have a plan on a squirrel day. I don't have a solid plan, right? It's not a day where I've got like meetings set up. Um, or if I do, it's, it's very few. I call my squirrel days whim days, and I just follow my whims. Whatever I want to do, I do it. And I literally just let my brain do what it does.

I love that. I call them squirrel days for a reason, because I literally feel like a squirrel who can't remember where their nuts are and pretty sure they don't want the nuts today, but they might want the nuts today. So they should find the nuts today, but probably don't actually want them and might want something else to eat. And my squirrel days, my typical squirrel days, and I usually do this on Sundays because my husband is gone for about 5 hours on Sundays. So I will watch a movie, read a book. I usually have my video game console in my hands. I might have TikTok on my phone. I could be fidgeting and I'm fidgeting with something, whether it's fidgets or a stuffed animal or my dog or, or, or I've got 12 different drinks and 9 different snacks. And, and I bounce around between the things, and it's absolute chaos, and my brain loves it.

Fantastic.

But if I'm really exhausted and I need complete quiet downtime, all of those things, Then I give myself that. And complete silence for me could be putting on noise-canceling headphones with no sound in them and staring at a wall for 5 hours. Or Coach Vita bought me the best thing in the world, and I have an R2-D2 lava lamp, and I spent 45 minutes staring at it yesterday. Oh my gosh! That's fantastic. I just needed to disassociate and stare at something for a while.

I find that once a week I kind of need to have a do-nothing day, and I mean nothing.

Just in bed. And it's understanding what your energy level is and what you need. And that was— that's, I think, one of the biggest gifts I feel like I can give a client, and maybe it's not, and some of my clients might argue with me, but is giving them the gift of understanding what they need in the moment.

Yes. And the tools to figure it out for themselves.

Yes. Well, not even that. If I can understand what I need, I can ask for the help.

Fair.

So sometimes if I understand what I need, I can provide it for myself. A squirrel day, a total silence day, whatever that looks like. But maybe I can't figure it out because I'm so exhausted and just so— I just can't do it. And that's where having a coach, my own coach, comes in. Or I can complain to the team and go, I can't think today, somebody think for me, and somebody will think for me. And that's where a community comes in, of having a community of people who get it. And I know Brett and Vida and I will all say something to each other, and one of us will have a piece of advice or a tip or a trick or a tool or something for that person when we can't operate. And we're all coaches for other people.

Yes. Yes. This brings me. This reminds me of one of the biggest misconceptions that I have clients come to the coaching relationship with, is that I'm going to teach them how to function as an island, to be so self-sufficient they do not ever need anyone else, ever. And listen, I. Completely understand the desire to be a control freak and be hyper-independent. Like, I understand a lot of the ways we get there. That is not reasonable or possible in any sort of sustainable way. Yes, I can absolutely help my clients become more self-sufficient. Yes, it can help you learn more tools and strategies to get through your day that you can use with yourself, by yourself, whatever. And you're a human being. You can't escape that we function best with each other.

We do. And there is so much— so I don't care how you think you were designed, how you came about, don't care about your political or religious leanings here. We were designed to operate in community. We were not designed— and, and, and this is mostly a uniquely Western culture thing. A unite— I'm not gonna even say Western culture because that's not true. In Europe, they do not operate like this. They operate in community. Everything is better in community. They operate in community, especially in countries like Italy and Spain and South America operates like this. Nobody operates as a lone island. And you want to know what those other countries have is a much lower mental health, serious mental health issue. Diagnosis rate.

What a concept.

And it's about asking for help. It's about having a community. It's about having a group of people that understand who you are, how you operate, why you operate the way you do. And our families are rarely— I mean, sometimes some of us have full-on neurodivergent families and they get it and they support each other and it's amazing. Until, until I think my son was an adult, I didn't have that in my home family. They didn't get me. Yeah. Now that my son is an adult and my husband has accepted he's neurodivergent, and we operate as a neurodivergent family, and it's the best thing ever. But having community— and I need— I, I built a community for other neurodivergent people because I freaking needed one. And I couldn't find a healthy one online. Facebook group toxicity, you know, the the worlds that we live in here in the U.S. I had to yeah, don't get me started on that. I had to create my own. So that's where N D L Loud came in. And by having community, my life is so much better because I can say. Today sucks. I give up. And people aren't gonna necessarily jump in and tell me I have to do this or have to do that. Most everybody's going, uh-huh, uh-huh. Send me memes, send me jokes, send me crazy Star Wars thing videos. Somebody sent me a Star Wars video that was Thumb Wars the other day that was all Star Wars stuff, and I laughed for 20 minutes watching that stupid video over and over again. And that's what I needed to get me out of my phone.

Yeah.

And just because I shared with my community that today sucked, that was it. Yeah. Having community is a huge part of it. And I think when somebody comes to a coach and they expect the coach to teach them so that they never need anybody else again, any coach that's teaching you to be super self-sufficient, well, there is power in that. There is power in understanding how you operate and knowing what tools to use and stuff. I don't always need somebody else to point out what tools I need or what be my executive function. But on the days that I do, I do, I have to have that community. So where are your favorite community spaces? Because Britt has some really cool local ones that she has. You have friends that you get together with, you go to the coffee shops, you do Oh yeah, I do, I do, I do, I do.

I was like, I do? It's so built into my life that I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about, Danielle.

And I moved 1,200 miles away or 1,000 miles away from all of that. I had that previously where I lived. I don't have that now. So mine is mostly all online, but without them, I would not get through most of my days.

Yeah, I live in a really— I, for those of you who don't know, I live in Richmond, Virginia, which is Really big on community. It's really cool. Like, if you want to volunteer, there's a million opportunities to do stuff. The city is big on mutual aid. There's so many get-togethers. And then just our friend group is really communal. And because neurodivergent people tend to flock together like poorly regulated Sometimes just being with your friends is enough. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes it is.

Some days I don't want to talk to people. I mean, there are days I don't want to talk to people and I want to isolate, self-isolate, and I want to be alone and not talk to anybody. And that's fine.

That was me yesterday, but I still needed to get stuff done. So like I joined If anybody's familiar with Shimmer, I joined a Shimmer body doubling session and I just turned my camera and my microphone off. But so I didn't have to interact with anyone. But I was like, all right, all these people are here to get stuff done that they don't really want to do, or that is like really hard to get themselves to do. So like We're all in this together, right? I don't have to talk to them or look at them, and they don't have to talk to me or look at me. But like, just that tiny thread of like, all right, we're all here, we've all got ADHD, and we all have something we need to be working on is enough.

Abso-freaking-lutely. And we have body doubling all day long, every day here at India Loud. Starts at 7 AM, goes to 5 PM, and without that, there are days I would never get anything done. But there are days I don't want to be embody doubling, and I don't need that, and I do need to self-isolate. But again, learning— learning that tool of learning what I need was a big thing, and it's something I don't want others to have to spend years and years that it took me to figure that out. That's why it is one of the first concepts I teach a client is how do we recognize our patterns and how do we recognize what we need so that we can not have to be with others all the time or ask somebody else or sometimes depending on what you need. Again, every day I need something different. I'm highly social. I'm very extroverted and I need other people's energy in order to get through the day some days. Other days I don't want anybody's other energy touching me and please get away.

Also, Tim touched me. Exactly.

But it's understanding that and knowing that is a huge deal. But it, it made my marriage better too by understanding I have days where I literally don't want to be touched. I don't want to be talked to. I don't want to have to cook food. I don't want to have to think about whatever your needs are.

I just want to be right. And it's not A personal front, right?

And, and that was, that was a big thing that my husband and I had to learn for each other because he has days like that too. He has days that he don't want. It's not just me, um, and that's okay and that's healthy and it's fine.

So I'm learning how to ask for that and like, yes, it's such a valuable skill.

I had a really, really rough day client-wise yesterday and I needed to totally disassociate and just not exist last night and my husband sat on one end of the couch, did his thing. I sat on the other end of the couch and did my thing and we were perfectly happy and that was good.

Fantastic.

We spent the whole entire night together and I didn't have to say a word. That was awesome.

Delightful.

It was. I love night nights. Like that. And my husband's like, oh, I needed that quiet too.

I didn't even know it.

So what do you need? A coach can help you figure out what you need, how you need it, how to recognize it in yourself, and then help you build the community that you need and the support system you need. Sometimes our support systems is a Roomba and Instacart. Okay?

Yes. That's the other thing. Oh, support comes in so many different—

It doesn't have to be high. It doesn't necessarily have to be like meeting with a coach every single day or something like that. It can be a Roomba. It could be an ice maker. It could be an app. It could be— I mean, there are so many things out there for us. Some days it's ChatGPT and that's all I need. That's the support system I needed for the day.

I have clients who it's a cuckoo clock because that helps them with their time blindness. Oh, an hour's passed.

I don't have a cuckoo clock, but I have announcements on my laptop that tells me every hour if I'm not on a call, it will be silent if I'm on a coaching call because it knows. But outside of that, every hour it announces that it's 9 AM, it's 10 AM, it's 11 AM. And oh, that helps me. It's the same thing as a cuckoo clock. And there are so many options out there and phone apps and desktop apps and things out there that can help you. And you— but talk to your ADHD coach. Talk to your ADHD community before you go down the rabbit trail of trying to find apps that you need.

I think that's the other thing that a coach can be really beneficial With is like narrowing down those options, right? Because I have gone— I'm constantly weeding through information. One, because I like it, but two, because it's literally my job. And constantly receiving feedback from my clients. So I will be able to more adequately make suggestions for you based on your needs than if you just go to Google.

Right.

Because I've already done the work. Um, I, like, for example, I literally just posted on Instagram the 3 books that I most recommend to newly diagnosed ADHDers. There's thousands of books out there. These are the ones that my clients tend to most resonate with and that I think are the most accessible based on working with hundreds clients and doing this for years. This list may change in the future, but hey, if you're like, hey, I just need someone to give me not 1,000 options and whittle it down, hey, we can do that with almost any type of tool.

Oh yeah, apps, books, tools, notebooks, pens, like ask me, planners, uh, all of the things, fidget toys. Timers, um, all of these things. We, we, and we always have a pro-con list. Well, this client liked it like because of this and but didn't like this thing because of that. We have this knowledge pool that Google does not have. And a freaking Facebook group, I saw somebody ask, I need a planner that's going to help me with my ADHD. Yeah, yesterday in a Facebook group. She got 780 responses. How does that help ADHD people? I mean, granted, the other ADHD people in the group wanted to help, so everybody answered because we want to help each other so bad. But I think something that— this is why Facebook groups drive me nuts— is there, there should be a 20-message response level limit.

Like, that's such a great idea.

Because It gets overwhelming. That doesn't help anybody with ADHD. No, it's like I'm planning, I'm going to Disney World next week. And I, I'm, I have a million questions right now because I'm going to Disney World. I'm going to be in a walker or a wheelchair for the first time. So I've had a million questions. I made the mistake of in a big Facebook group for people with disabilities, I asked one question. I'm sure there's some good advice in there, but I had to leave the group because it was too overwhelming.

Yeah.

Um, so it— that's one of the big problems with asking in a Facebook group, and that's why building your own small trusted communities is so much more helpful for us. Facebook groups are the bane of existence as far as I'm concerned.

I don't mind a closed Facebook group.

Yes. Curated Facebook group, controlled Facebook group, moderated Facebook group. Yeah. All of those things. But that's again, I created what I needed because I couldn't get that on Facebook. And we often do that, especially when you get those of us that are high achieving ADHDers, we tend to Say screw you, I'll fix it myself. Um, you and me. So what do you need today? What do you need to ask for help with? What do you wish someone can solve for you? Ask away. I want to hear what your questions are. Brit and I are always happy to answer your questions under these videos. Always. Please ask. We're happy to answer your questions. If you have something that you can't solve for yourself, if you are neurodivergent and really frustrated in life, Work life, personal life, business life, pet pet parent life. Whatever it is, ask the question because you you might be surprised at how someone like Britt, myself, or any one of our listeners can help you. Just ask some questions. I hope you have an amazing day today and have an amazing week. Britt and I will not be live with you next week because I'm gonna be on vacation in Disney World.

So, gonna be.

And I am so looking forward to it and so having a hard time concentrating on doing anything else this week. Just so y'all know, I do have that problem too because I have this thing and I want to focus only on that thing, but I can't because I have to be an adult. So if you want to entertain me this week, feel free, because I need all the entertainment I can get because I don't want to do things. So, okay. Yeah, have a good week, everyone.