Leaders with ADHD: Insights & Strategies for Improving Your Credibility

Hello, hello, hello. This is ND Out Loud, and I have James D'Amico with me today. And I want to tell you, I met this man completely by chance at chat, and we just hit it off and then realized that we're both from the same hometown after we had talked for probably 45 minutes. Um, it was nice to talk to somebody with the right accent, let me tell As a New York girl living deep south, it's nice to hear the right accent. But it was pretty cool that we realized 2 Rochesterians sat next to each other just completely by chance in the middle of a CHAD conference in my very first session. So it was so nice to meet you, and I'm so happy to have you on the podcast today. So it's just— it's so cool that we ran into each other just completely I— By chance.

I agree with that. It's proof that everybody leaves Western New York and moves to different parts of the country, I suppose. But the fact that we both left the towns in which we live and ended up in California sitting next to each other, it does speak to the randomness that is this world. But man, as soon as I heard you speak, it was this wonderful hybrid of nasally Rochester A's and a little bit of a Southern drawl. It was wonderful.

I've only been here 4 years. Darn it, I picked some of that up. So tell me, I'm going to let you tell us what you do and why we connected a bit here.

Oh, okay. So I do executive coaching and leadership training. So I pretty much help individuals and organizations achieve the success and happiness that they're after. And through a variety of means, whether it's one-on-one work, workshops, team coaching. And I ended up at the ADHD conference, uh, really because, well, 2 reasons. Number one, trying to figure myself out, uh, but number two, because so many executives, especially entrepreneurs, have ADHD. And it was really to try to become in better service to my clients. And I have to tell you, What I took away was far more personal than professional and was kind of life-changing in a variety of ways. A big part of it was the way the whole thing was kicked off. I found out immediately, oh my gosh, number one, I'm surrounded by my people. And number two, my people really want to help. And by the way, that very first session, I am referencing you there. It started it off on a great note.

Yeah, we tend to not be able to not info dump. So yeah, info dumping is pretty easy for us, and, and we truly do want to help, especially those of us like me who are of the Audi HD persuasion. We tend to definitely jump into that a whole lot more. So you have 20 years in marketing. Tell us a little bit about where your marketing background comes from.

Okay, so I found my way into the tech sector doing marketing. I thought at the beginning of my career that I was going to be a salesperson, like, Hey, I like talking to people. And then come to find out in hindsight, uh, the rejection sensitivity was way more than I could take. And it sort of felt like every time somebody hung up on me, it's like I was thinking, oh, they must hate me. Um, couldn't work with that. So I decided that what I really wanted to do was the— Let's say the psychological end of sales, which is marketing. It led me to that, and I kind of cut my teeth during the dot-com boom. Do you remember that? Of course.

Oh my gosh, yes, yes, we are the same age. Yes, I remember that well.

Yes. So I came out of college, I went to work for a dot-com, and that's when I started realizing that my passion was really in psychology. And social psychology, which is a big side of marketing. So after 20 years of doing that, I started realizing that I wasn't having as much fun, if you will, doing it as I had previously. I found that putting money in the pockets of venture capital firms wasn't really doing it for me as much as when I really stopped to evaluate it. Interacting with my colleagues, problem solving, helping people. Those conversations just nourished me in a way that my profession hadn't. And that led me to actually do a program at Georgetown University, which in, in leadership coaching, which led me to the executive coaching and the leadership training, which is where I am now.

So you also have a side quest, and I call these side quests. He has Jamie D and Big Newt, which is a Buffalo Bills podcast. So for those that don't remember, if you've seen us live, seen Tim and I live here, who is part of ND Out Loud, and also my baby brother, is a huge Bills fan and never shuts up about it. So the fact that you also have a Bills side quest is, is very cool to me. So definitely check that out. We'll have links for that below. But I listened to an episode the other day and it's hilarious. And I don't like football. I don't like football. And it was still hilarious. So go listen if you like football. Even if you aren't just a Bills fan, you will enjoy the podcast, I think. So definitely check that out. We'll have links below. So first thing I want to ask you—

Yes.

Is I want you to define what is leadership, because I think there's a lot of misconceptions of what that is.

Right. I, and I, I think that's very observant of you because when people try to define what a leader is, normally they start throwing characteristics at you as opposed to an actual definition. And really, a leader is, especially in a professional organization, is a person who can be trusted for their performance, decision-making, and communication ability. And you'll notice what I did not say there. I did not say it's the smartest person in the room. And I did not say that it's somebody who's charismatic and can give soaring speeches and, you know, somebody who is always directing people. You know, those are not it. It comes down to trust in 3 main categories. The performance and productivity side, The decision-making and the communication. And so much of what I deal with falls into just those 3 categories. And when it comes to how you, how you interact with people or your emotional quotient, they seem to find their way into those categories.

Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think as an ADHD coach, because I've been an ADHD coach for 25. Okay, it's longer than 25 years, but I stopped counting at 25 years. 25 years. And it's so much of what I do for entrepreneurs, people who are working in corporate, is just only covers those 3 areas because those 3 areas affect kind of snowball out, have that ripple effect on everything else. I call it holistic coaching.

Mm-hmm.

But I think leadership coaching is a big piece of that holistic So when one of the big things that you talk about a lot is credibility in your workplace to prevent your ADHD from harming your reputation. So what? How do you do that? Because so many of us with ADHD are always playing the shame game, RSD game. Oh, I know all my coworkers look down on me. All of those kinds of thoughts are a constant for those of us with ADHD. So how do you really attack that?

Um, you know, before we get into the how, I would love to talk about the what that causes it, if you don't mind.

Absolutely.

Because the— and the reason I want to do it in this order is I think it'll make, it'll make more sense to you.

Yeah.

Um, I— when you talk about the RSD, that's a big part. And so many of the personality traits that we have as ADHDers can show up in ways in the workplace that people don't necessarily appreciate. Now, of course, there's the, the productivity issues and performance issues, the, the missed deadlines, and we understand that at work that, that doesn't That doesn't fly, right? But there's the other things that play into it that are a little bit more insidious that people don't necessarily realize. And a lot of it comes down to the communication. And what I wanted to talk about specifically is the dreaded meetings. Because that is a place where I think a lot of us do the most damage to ourselves. And, you know, I want to hearken back to the conference where we were. I spoke to a woman who worked at one of the tech giants that's out there, and was there for 15 years, believed she was untouchable, and then got laid off. Couldn't believe it. And she said, well, maybe it's because they're really going in a different direction. But after thinking about it, she told me that she narrowed it down to one meeting that she was in, where she went in knowing that she was dysregulated. And the way she presented herself was so damaging that it ended up costing her her job after 15 years. I've been there. Yeah, and I think a lot of us have. And there's, there are pieces of the puzzle that, that really get in the way. What are some things you would think are problems in meetings? Like, I don't want to go on a monologue here.

I mean, I know from talking to my clients, I have one client who actually is working with the ADA right now because she lost her job because she took too many notes in meetings.

Took too many notes?

Mm-hmm. And held her team accountable, her boss accountable for what was said in meetings. Because she would take a ton of notes in meetings and then she would send a follow-up email.

Doesn't that sound like good practice to you?

Oh yeah, it does.

Well, those are amongst the things that I coach people to do.

I know, me too.

So obviously she has a winning suit on her hands right there.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

But I'll give you an example. Somebody who was— and there's a couple of things people I've worked with, things that I've done, um, but I worked with one person. It was a very large organization and she was a VP who aspired to get into the C-suite and stalled out at the VP level and could never understand it. And I became a more trusted advisor, started sitting in meetings and you could tell why right away. She interrupted people constantly in meetings. And the interruptions, I brought it up to her. I said, do you realize every time somebody was speaking, you just started talking over them? And she said, yeah, but if I don't do that, I'm going to forget what I have to say. Well, okay. But she was coming off poorly, even though what she had to say the majority of the time was pertinent. It was, it was important and it was on point. the majority of the time. But, you know, finding ways to not interrupt. There is the tendency to get off topic. A company owner that I worked with, he certainly had ADHD. And in any meeting, you could absolutely be guaranteed that that meeting was going to run over by 25% because he was going to start telling you about something that reminded him of something else. And it was a walk down memory lane. Well, you know, 15 years ago when we were starting the company, we went to this conference and it didn't have anything necessarily to do with the meeting itself, but it was taking people off track and people would start looking at each other. They'd roll their eyes. They'd start grumbling. These are the things that start costing you credibility. This is the owner. People weren't going to tell him to stop. But what do you think was going through people's minds when that was happening? So how do we overcome those things? How do we make sure that when somebody rejects our idea in meetings, that it doesn't shake us to the core? Well, I mean—

There's so many options here. So I want to go back to how you go in and let's talk about the mechanics of how you are coaching somebody and watching them. supporting them, because I think that's important before we go to the solutions to these things. So how do you go in and help an executive that's really, really struggling and take a look at their productivity and process?

Okay, well, typically a person is coming to me because they feel like they have an issue, right? So we sort of get that out of the way. But we begin by sort of going through their perspective on what's happening day to day and what they believe is an issue. There are sometimes opportunities to go in and observe. You know, sometimes I can be a fly on the wall. I'll occasionally be on a— in group meetings, but I'll have my camera off so as to not be distracting. And, you know, they'll introduce me, hey, this is somebody, this is so-and-so, they're uh, just observing us today. It's for me personally. Don't worry, you guys aren't, uh, you know, you need to set people at ease when there's a stranger present, obviously. Um, so we begin there by talking about what the issues they're perceiving are and then trying to get themselves to put themselves, to put themselves in other people's shoes and say, okay, well, what do you think other people's Perspective is on that. Now there is also the possibility of doing the 360 assessments where you talk to everybody around the person and ask really everybody the same questions that I ask my client and find out what their input is. Occasionally you get unbelievable insight from that. People will say, oh my God, I never knew that when I did X. Why was the result of it? So that's, that's the beginning of it. Um, but really focusing in on the self-awareness and, and trying to come to solutions through that. But that is really a big part of the assessment process. Hey, was that— did that make sense?

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay.

So what, what is one of your What's one of the things that people— the realizations, I guess, is what I'm looking for. What's one of the realizations that most people come to after working with you with just a little bit when it comes to these things?

Usually the first realization is that underneath it all is there was a small lack of self-awareness, usually not big, but a small lack of self-awareness in how what, how their behavior is affecting the people around them. Because it's hard to build credibility. It's very easy to tear it down. Just like motivating people is tough, but demotivating them is very easy. And so often people are costing themselves credibility while demotivating their colleagues. And that's, you know, that becomes an issue. So it's the eye-opener of I never knew A equals B equals C.

It's often how that goes. And I see it in my clients, but not surprising at all. So, okay, so when it comes to what is— you go in, you help them with those self-realizations. What are the practical things that you work on with them? Because we've always heard, well, you have to do more mindset work and you have to do more leadership work. And that is so freaking vague. Um, and people get, get lost in— they think they have to read a Mel Robbins book and that that's going to solve all their problems. What are the practical things you do?

Okay, so I, I love that you asked that question. You are so right about that. Number 1, slow down. I'm not saying work slowly. I'm saying slow yourself down. If you're leading a meeting, have an agenda, stick to the agenda, know what the topics are going to be ahead of time. If you're not leading that meeting, when a topic comes up, just quickly write it down. And what that allows you to do is when that thought comes to mind, you write it down so you don't blurt it out right away. You're avoiding the interruption there. When somebody pushes back on you, don't have an immediate response. Write it down again. Write it down. You're writing a lot of things down. You're taking a lot of notes, but you're doing it in a way that makes sense to you. You're slowing down. You're writing it down. You're coming back to topics. First and foremost, that's the practical move that I have to work on with a lot of people.

It's so important because we are so impulsive. I mean, that's part of being ADHD is we're super mega impulsive. And when we're creative, especially as a visionary or a leader, it makes it even that much harder to do things. I think one of the biggest things I had to learn, I mean, I run a company, I've run multiple companies, built, sold, um, and worked in corporate as a leader. And I think one of the biggest things I had to learn to do is one, take constant notes and two, doodle.

Doodle. Tell me about that.

By doodling, and I didn't realize that there's actually a sort of a training out there for this. It's called Zentangle. By doodling, one, I'm associating the doodle with the conversation that's going on. And I will tell you, by looking at a doodle on the edge of a page, I know exactly what all my notes are on the page.

Get out.

It helps with recall. So it helps that memory, that, that brain fog memory issue that we have as ADHDers. 2, it helps me concentrate because it's just another form of fidgeting. There are days I'll have other kinds of fidgets in my hands. Um, but doodling helps me stay more focused and get less distracted. And 2, by taking the notes in between the doodles, I'm staying on track. And then when it's my time to speak, I can speak instead of one, blurting it out, 2, interrupting because ADHD, and 3, really understanding that there is a process, there is a system, and there are habits that have to be built around even being in a meeting.

Yes. Like I said, meeting— meetings can be the killer of all killers to careers. Because there's a lot of eyeballs on whoever is speaking at that moment. So I'm glad we're having this conversation. And what I'm interested in is asking you, somebody who's been a successful entrepreneur outside of doodling, what helps you wait your turn?

One, I'm in control in 99% of meetings, so I actually have in my agenda asked Jamie what his questions are at the end. Danielle, this is your time, Danielle, to put in your responses, questions, answers, whatever here. And I actually write that into my agenda, and it's something that I needed to learn to do because I would want to interrupt with the inspiration or something like that. And if somebody asks me a direct question, then obviously that's my time to speak. I can, I can answer. answer questions. But if I don't have an answer to the question, did you know saying, let me check on that and get back to you, is an acceptable response? And learning that I didn't have to always have the answer was the second part of that.

That is so difficult for so many people because, again, there's this belief, oh, if I'm in a leadership position, I have to be the smartest person in the room. You know what? The best leaders are the people who hire people that are smarter than them.

Yeah, I was going to say that one of the— I had to— my family, my bestie all call me walking Google because 99% of the time I do have the answer. Because one, I have to become an expert of everything that ever crosses my eyes because I have to, and there is no getting around that. But That doesn't mean I always have the right answer. And if I haven't processed something fully, I'm not— my initial answer might not be the best option.

Mm-hmm.

Um, perfectionism does creep in there a bit, but understanding that in that perfectionism, pausing my response for a later time is essential For growth for my company. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. So who do you lean on? I'm, I'm, and I'm curious about this because typically, and I've experienced this when I've been in executive positions, I see this with a lot of my, with a lot of my clients. There's always people in your lives that you do have to lean on for certain things. Where do those people come from for you?

For me, and I'm having to learn this really, especially right now, I'm becoming less mobile and I'm having to learn some new lessons here. Number one is my husband. My husband is always my best cheerleader, advocate, bestie. I could talk about— he's also an entrepreneur, so I can discuss all of the things with him and I need to. Don't try to not do it myself. Never do it myself. And I think that was one of the biggest things I had to learn way back is I was failing as an entrepreneur. I was failing as a business owner, a freelancer, whatever I tried until I got support. Once I got support, then I succeeded. So my husband is number one. Number 2 is I have my own coach. I always have my own coach. It is a necessity. As an ADHDer, especially as a coach, to have my own coach at all times. And, and for those that are wondering, no, I don't have a coach for 2025, and I have not found one yet. So working on that. I always have a coach, and then I always have a VA. I have a virtual assistant who is specifically for me so that I can brain dump. And 90% of what she does is she takes my brain dumps, writes them down, verifies that this is what I want to do, and then delegates it to other people.

You found—

She works an hour a day. That's all she works. And she is perfect for me for that.

You have found yourself a wonderful system. And there's a variety of different ways that people go about these things. And how— I want to ask how long it took you to discover these things.

It took me about 5 years of being an entrepreneur to discover those things because failures, bankruptcy, Almost lost my house. Um, it took me— I had to do things wrong a few times, and I'm ADHD, so doing things wrong is not acceptable to me over the long term. So I had to try. I tried 5 ways, it didn't work, and then went, I need support. And my support, like I said, I have my husband that I talk through everything. Poor guy gets his ear talked off.

Um, but he loves you for it.

He does. Some days. There are days he might not. I have my own coach because I do need to process out loud. I'm a verbal processor. I need that person. And then I have my VA. But that's not all. I have a community of fellow ADHDers just like me. And while I happen to own the community, it is my community, it's part of my group program, I will tell you, I get just as much from them as they— I I think that I give them. I think they all say I give them so much, and I'm like, you guys do the same thing for me. I have body doubling, unlimited body doubling from 7 AM to 5 PM. I attend those sessions because I need them.

Yes.

We have weekly group coaching sessions, and we're all having good mastermind discussions on each other's issues and how we can support each other. Those are essential to Growth, not falling apart, staying on track, all of the things that I need as a business owner.

And, you know, these are things that I end up speaking with my clients who have ADHD about fairly regularly. And the, the real challenge for a lot of them is trying to do it without the help, like you said you were doing early on. And it's sort of my goal To start working with people before it becomes dire, before you're looking at losing your house. And to to me, I feel like a proactive approach, having a coach like you said, is in a lot of ways the way in which you can start achieving the success that you're looking for. It Without actually laying out a lot of money or looking for investment. It's just really getting yourself up to your potential. Now, I'm not here just to try to say, wow, yay, coaching is great. But, you know, the reason I got into it in the first place, outside of what we had already discussed, is I had a very personal experience with it. My father, who has ADHD, a serial entrepreneur, I watched him in his 60s flourish because he got a coach at 59 years old and the company doubled in size. He became happier. I knew a bunch of his employees. His employees became happier. The entire family was happier. And here he is, uh, we're 15, 16 years later now. He is the happiest he's ever been in his life. He sold the business, um, got 3 times more for it than he ever thought he could. And it all came down to the coaching.

Amazing. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, so like you, I have a coach too. So it's like you can't get into coaching unless you're a believer in the first place, right? And, you know, his coach was not an ADHD coach. I'm not specifically an ADHD coach, but it is a part of my clientele. So you and I are different that way. We come— we sort of come to the same place from 2 different directions. But I think that's really effective too.

I think so. Because just because I specifically work with ADHDers, because I just decided a long time ago that I wanted to only work with ADHDers, but obviously, I actually work with people who are not ADHD. I actually have 4 neurotypical clients that I do the same exact thing with. They're just burnt out and exhausted adults.

I had a conversation with somebody 2 days ago who is an ADHD coach who said, you know, if it's good for people with ADHD, it can be good for anyone. You know, uh, regulating your emotions, noticing what you feel in your body, time management skills. Who can't benefit from those things? And the interesting part about it is while we were having that conversation, I said, I'm so glad you said that because when it comes to leadership skills, who couldn't benefit from the skills that I impart? Like nothing I do is specific to leaders. Literally anyone can benefit from, well, you know, how do I have a better mindset? How, how can I communicate better? All of these things, yes, we will talk about them specific to leadership situations. But I wish I knew all of these things early in my career.

I wish that somebody taught us that we needed these extra supports of things. And I think it's the support thing I use. And I'm not in my office, so I don't have my little illustrations. I use Iron Man often.

Oh.

As an illustration because Iron Man on his own, extremely smart, rich, whatever. Tony Stark is rich and mouthy and has whatever he wants, but he's not a superhero. He's really nothing special other than mouthy. And but once he puts that suit on, the structure around himself, he makes himself better then. His structure, part of his structure is Jarvis. It's not the metal around him. It's the other brain we always need. And anybody who is really successful, 7 Habits of Highly Successful People, all of these things, is having other brains to rely on and not your own.

Yes. I sat through a session at that, uh, at that conference, and it really got through to me in a way that nothing ever had, because I have always tried to fight against my ADHD instead of work with it. But this applies to just about anything, and I love the analogy. The, the presenter said asked, who here in the room thought, thinks, or thought that if they just tried harder, they could overcome their ADHD? And I mean, my hand shot up in the air because that's always been me.

Yeah.

And then he showed a picture of a woman in a wheelchair in front of a large staircase and said, now, would you tell her that if she just tried harder, she could get up those stairs? Where are you going with this, huh? He said, no, she needs a ramp. So why aren't you building yourself a ramp? Oh my God, you got me. You absolutely got me with that. But you know what? It applies to everything. It does.

It very much does. And I think one of the disservices we have as ADHDers is the world has really tried to tell us that We're just not trying hard enough. We're lazy. All of these things. And not— and even us as ADHDers denying that we are disabled. ADHD is a disability and it sucks. Not gonna deny that.

Yeah, it does.

But if we don't start looking at us as we are, our brain literally does not work like a neurotypical person's. It does not. It is not wired the same. It does not. Except chemicals, the same. It does nothing. We are clinically disabled, and we need to look at it as a disability so that we can start accepting support systems.

Yes. And I am here to say that with the right support system, you can be as successful as Danielle here. But you just need, you need to build yourself ramps.

You have to have ramps. And again, we need other brains to be part of that because that is the thing that is broken for us. And I, I say broken, but I don't mean that you are broken. You are just not wired the same as everyone else. We are not broken. We are just different, and we have a different way of doing things. Somebody who is in a wheelchair is different. They're not broken. They're just different and have a different way of doing things. All of that goes across. So when you're working with somebody who is stubborn and doesn't want to accept support systems and help, how do you work with them?

Well, I, you know, I really appreciate that question. Usually people like that are a combination of analytical and emotional. They don't want to be different. That goes back to the, the rejection sensitivity, right? So it's sort of a start from the perspective of, okay, well, let me tell you what is actually happening here. Did you know that people with ADHD are 2 times more likely to be unemployed?

Hmm.

Did you know that tip— that on average, people with ADHD lose 22 days of productivity per year. What will your life look like if you can have a— that 22 days, that's a full month. That's adding— if you can become more productive, that you're adding a full month to your calendar of things that you can get done.

Mm-hmm.

So now when you're looking at it like that, say, okay, now if you look at it from an ROI perspective, because it's always okay, the people that don't want help, sorry to say this, 9 out of 10 times it's men.

Mm-hmm.

I have just found that in my experience. If you can get through to them on that level and talk about the aspirational facet, of what you can be if you're open to small things. But then I have to let them lead the way. I cannot push them beyond where they are. Meet them where they're at. So that combination, that opens the door, but I have to walk alongside them. I cannot pull them along.

And who—

Okay, so question.

We lose 22 days of productivity a year, and I know that stat, and we talk about it all the time over here. But how do you, without getting yourself into bad habits— because this, this is a toxic productivity, toxic mindset— issue that we see in the world, especially the US, of how do you help people become more productive without overcommitting and burning themselves out?

Oh, I am so glad you asked that because a huge part of what I have to focus on is work-life balance because nothing works right unless, unless you're eating right, sleeping right, Getting exercise, having downtime, letting your brain expand. I, I would say that one of the absolute largest issues that every executive I talk to has is work-life balance. A lot of people, they got to where they are because they're workaholics.

Mm-hmm.

And ADHD or not, they are burning the midnight oil. And the overcommitting aspect is something that, you know, it's very common for people with ADHD. But it's also very common for people in executive positions. So it's, it's convincing them of the fact that when they take care of themselves, everything gets better. They don't lose productivity by being healthier, by having better relationships with their family. They don't lose productivity. In fact, if they're really good at their job as a leader, they're delegating. So a lot of that comes down to, do they even know how to delegate? When should they delegate? To whom should they delegate? How do you follow up? You know, so many people, especially those with ADHD, want to be the nice guy. Like, oh, you know, I miss deadlines all the time. What kind of person am I if I hold other people to deadlines? No. You're in a leadership position. That is your job to make sure people are doing their work. You can't be successful by playing patty cake with people, and they respect you more when you are— I'm not saying rigid, but when you have standards and expect them to be met. People live up to or down to expectations.

Yeah, absolutely.

And the other side is there's an inverse relationship between Between a person's, 2 people's effort. The more one person does, the less the other person does. It's just, it goes back and forth like that. When one person overfunctions, it causes the people around them to underfunction and vice versa. You have to have the right balance because if you're taking on someone else's tasks, you're doing them a disservice just as much as you're doing yourself a disservice. So those are things that we really need to, to address. And I don't know if you noticed, but I just got really passionate about this.

Just a little. So one of the biggest things that I talk to a lot of my people still in corporate careers about is they constantly feel the pressure to do everything themselves.

Yeah.

So in that delegation realm, but they feel like that expectation is on them. How does delegating more increase your reliability and your stance as a leader, or even just as a cubicle drone? How does that learning to delegate increase your Stance.

Okay. So that, that's a really wonderful question because a lot of times people hold on to tasks because they feel like the only way to get it done right is their way of doing it. Now, unfortunately, when people begin to get promoted into leadership positions, it's usually because they are a good individual contributor. As a football fan. Are you a football fan too? Okay, then I won't use that analogy.

You can. Well, no, because I will say most of our, our users are not.

Yeah, okay.

Not, not sports addicts. How's that?

Okay. Um, okay, so the accountant gets hired to be an accounting manager because that accountant is Reliable. They get the work done fast and it's always accurate. Okay, great. Now their job is to manage 6 other accountants. Well, your job is not to do accounting anymore. Your job is now to delegate. It's to support. It's to coach. It's to double-check. Your job as you raise up in an organization becomes more strategic. and supervisory. And it's not about doing the day-to-day work. I have one client, he's in an organization, he's— there's 4 owners. The 4 owners were managing everything in a 200-person organization and they said, okay, we realize the only way we're going to grow is if we put in a level of middle management so that we can work on the business and not in the business. So they promoted 4 VPs. What ended up happening? The VPs had not figured out that they cannot reach down 3 levels and do a person's work. And it was taking the company backwards. Obviously, that's why I was brought in to sort of help out with that. But they saw it, which is great, but they had no way of getting that across to their new VPs who needed to be relied on to set the strategy, to be decision makers, to be motivators, to help people get better at their jobs. How can you help somebody get better at their job if you're doing it for them? Did I answer your question?

Absolutely answered my question. So when we need to tie this up because we've been going for a bit. What is your one tip that you want to make sure people walk away with today on being a leader and on being ADHD as you are learning yourself? Because you're still learning about being ADHD yourself. So I always love to hear what your current tip is to help you be successful each day.

Okay. So for a leader with ADHD?

Yes.

Okay, so it's kind of a— I think my tip is sort of twofold. It is be regulated and slow down. Impulsivity is going to cost you more credibility than anything else you do. Impulsivity gets you fired. Impulsivity causes people to look at you sideways. So regulate, slow down, and be professional. Because if you take emotion out, you always know what the right answer is.

And if you take the time to answer a question, if you can't process it immediately, in the other part of that. Take the time to process.

Yeah, slow down.

Just slow down.

So I couldn't do that here, could I? I had to answer right away.

You had to answer me right away. But that's why I have you on here, because I know you can. So when you're looking for a leadership trainer, if you're looking for someone who's going to come in and really dial into what you're struggling with, Reach out to Jamie. I will have all of his information below this video, below the podcast if you're watching on the podcast, and you can reach out to him at any time. I've really enjoyed talking to you today and I can't wait. We actually— Jamie and I are gonna be talking about some new things coming to the ND world, ND Allowed world here over the next few months. And, uh, we have our conference coming up in 2026 and Jamie's gonna be part of that. So you'll see a little more of him around here. If you have questions, Please always ask. We're here to support you and help you live a more successful life and do it out loud, not hiding in the background. I hope you have an amazing day today. Please, please