Skill-Based Hiring & Education

I think we're live.

Yes, we are. Hello, hello, hello everyone. This is Danielle and Tim from ND OutLoud, and we're here talking about skill-based hiring today.

Yeah, we, we got a lot on this, um, and I, I think maybe to provide some foundational elements for, for us to maybe just kind of really jump into the conversation. Um, we know, and the, the numbers are a little skewed with us because, um, there are some, some things that really can't be quantified with numbers, but we, we basically know that in this current economy that 85% of open jobs do not require a bachelor's degree. 75% of those jobs don't even require an associate's degree. This is an economy that's based upon certifications and the slow, methodical skill-building process. And the reason why I say slow, methodical is like, you know, they're trying to look at this, you know, and this is where really where the numbers come from, from sort of a vacuum of a high schooler that is in 11th grade and how they can build skills through the— many high schools in this country have certification-based classes that are built into the last 2 years of school. Basically, if you take that 11th grader and you build those skills, you're starting the slow methodical career process in which you have an 11th grader that's building a career in high school. So, you know, when you have a 40-year-old that's sort of in a dead-end job, that's kind of in a place in which they're looking for the next best thing, that doesn't really work in that vacuum. But it's basically like that's what it comes down to. You need to slowly build a skill set in a specific field that you're interested in and then go from there.

I, well, I have personal experience with that. My son, we homeschooled my son, and he started getting certifications at 13 years old. And by the time he was 18, he had a full-time job as a VoIP engineer for an IT company, just based on certifications alone and, and a portfolio. He had a portfolio of sandboxing this kind of thing and building his own version of this and all of that, and being able to do those 2 things combined was huge. But the other part of this for me personally is when I went back to college. I did skill-based college, so I tested out of all kinds of things to get a master's degree because the skills were way more important, even in the eyes of an accredited college, than me taking all kinds of classes that meant nothing for my eventual degree.

Yeah. You know what we're seeing? We're seeing a lot of colleges, not nearly enough, but we're seeing a lot of colleges that are pivoting toward that concept of marketing degree programs that have certifications built in when these colleges full well know that you're in a place in which you may get 2 or 3 certifications and the employer down the road says, hey, come work for me. And they drop out of college or they maybe drop from full-time to part-time because they have some type of sustainable gainful employment.

Mm-hmm.

With the, with the idea of— I don't know if I'm coming down with a cold, which I cannot have a cold this week. I have so many things going on. But with the idea that education is now a long linear pathway instead of it being just a 4-year degree, you know, you graduate high school, you get your 4-year degree, you put your life on hold for 4 years, and then you, you gain employment. That model does not work anymore in today's economy. So there needs to be—

I think it's worked for a long time. I think we've held on to that for way too long. Way, way, way too long. I know when I worked at IT and was running a whole entire IT team, that I learned really quickly after hiring my first person directly out of college that that was worthless, and they were no good to me at all. And we started looking for people who didn't even necessarily have certifications, but had great portfolios and had done personal projects and had worked on and volunteered at and things like that, that was way more valuable to us as a team. And we ended up building an extremely strong team just looking at things like that and asking them to get certifications before we would consider hiring. And most of these people, especially in the neurodivergent community, would pull off an 80-hour certification in a week.

Yep.

And know everything about it.

Yeah. Yeah. So, and then, so the, the, that piece about the certification piece, which is basically abbreviated degree programs into like a concentrated period of time in which, like, they're concentrated. So they're not easy. It's not something like, you know, like you gotta really put yourself into it. But, you know, you have a certification. So like, for example, one of the programs that I helped facilitate back in Connecticut when I was working for workforce Development Board was a 6-month CNC machine certification program. So it cost, I believe, like $8,000, and the state of Connecticut covered 80% of that. So you really only had a few dollars out of pocket. And like, it was 6 months of Monday through Friday, 7 to 8 hours a day of class, labs. Like, it was quite involved. So like, when I was selling this to potential clients, I'm like, this is not like some, like, you know, like something that you can breeze through. But it's 6 months and then you have a job that's paying $85,000 a year right off the bat.

Oh yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, my husband is a CNC machinist. That's how he did it because— and he actually did it 3 months. So he was doing 12-hour days, 6 days a week for 3 months to get his certification. But he was instantly earning really good money in less than 90 days.

Yeah. Yeah. So like that was a sacrifice on his part. You know, it was quite involved. He probably had to be away from his family more than he wanted to. But, you know, it's just a temporary thing. Like, there's a very, very important person in both of our lives had a very important quote when it comes to, you know, you can always do something, especially if it's temporary.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, like, that's where it is. There's a lot to be said about, you know, like, way back in the day with our father. Like, he was kind of in the same boat where he did a certification program and he had a job for 35 years working at a subsidiary for General Motors and, you know, earned a pretty good career doing that. So, you know, that's the sense of— and this is hard, especially in today's economy— that a lot of people probably need to take that temporary sacrifice of maybe having to work a full-time job in the evenings and go to school in the day for a 3-month or 6-month period. And then you have a career on the other end of that, and you're filling a need that employers need.

And I know, especially for the single parents out there, things like that, and if you're neurodivergent, that's really difficult when you're neurodivergent. Speaking from somebody who has done this, I have changed careers so many times, and I will tell you, 90% of the time when I change, I'll get a degree. I'll do the hybrid version of going to college. I will get a certification. But it's not easy. It's really not easy. So when it comes to skill-based learning, it's about understanding that it is a short period of time, but the light at the end of the tunnel is Huge. And I think there is a connotation that skill-based learning, I'm not going to be able to earn anything, that trades have fallen out of fashion, going to trade school and things like that. But they earn more money coming out of the gate than somebody who has a 4-year degree.

Yeah.

Or even a 6-year degree. If you have your master's degree or something, somebody with a skill-based certification program or trade program earns more money out of the gate than anybody with a degree.

Yeah, I mean, I, you know, going back to Connecticut, the average salary for a Connecticut manufacturing employee, I remember, was $108,621.81. And so, like, I know— no, I'm a little off with that number, but it was in the 6 figures after, you know, and that's basically 3 years after you have started your certification program and have had some gainful employment.

Mm-hmm.

So yeah, the numbers and the proof all over the country that—

And most certification programs are under $20,000. Almost everything out there is way, like, probably under $10,000 where we're talking my college loan was for $130,000. I had to pay $130,000 back. My certifications, $6,000 here, $5,000 there. That was something I put on a credit card and had paid off in less than a year.

Yeah. Yeah. And then, yeah. So you have that, but then there are many, many, many, many states that provide programs that basically cover the cost completely free of charge. So even here in Idaho, which is a pretty red state, that's pretty like, you know, no government sort of state, they pay 80% of a certification program. Um, if you're a resident of Idaho.

That's amazing. And I know that, uh, vocational services will help pay for things like this too. If, if you are, again, for those of you that work, I, I work with because I work in Neurodivergent Out Loud and all of that. If you are, if you have a disability, ADHD, dyslexia, being hearing impaired, something like that, you may get your costs 100% covered for one of these things.

Yeah, yeah. So like that, that was gonna be my next point. I'm intimately aware of that because I oversee— I'm on the board that oversees Idaho's VR system. So like, I'm aware of that. And nationwide, every state has their own program for that. And then there's scholarships that these programs have. And then on top of this, there are employers that will recruit you day one from the certification program. And say, well, you know, come work with us part-time. You have a mentor. You then go to school as well. And, you know, you don't get paid much, but you get paid something. But on top of it, the employer said that they will reimburse you for the cost of school if you work with us for a period of time.

Mm-hmm.

So programs like that out there. And that's one thing that I've talked to some of my client employers about is here's the structure for how to develop a program like that. So that, and the legal language that goes behind it as well, that there's a lot of employers that are doing that because they're hurting for employees. They need skilled labor. They need it now. It really comes down to skills. Employers will hire you if you have the skills. The employer may not— some employers actually may hire you if you don't have the skills and send you to school to get the skills, but they need you. So like they'll work to To make that happen.

And, and that— this is a plus to employers. If you're looking for better employees, if you're looking for some of these things, look at some of these certification programs. Like, connect yourself to them. Somebody like Tin can help you connect to all kinds of certification programs. And, and because it's so important, skills Way outweigh college degree at this point.

Oh yeah, they really do. And then, then let's kind of take this to another level. So like, being the workforce nerd that I fully admit that I am, my previous role, the company that I worked for bought into a study that was done by a company called America Succeeds, which is like a workforce think tank based out of Denver, Colorado. And they studied 17 states and like what— this was in the middle of the pandemic or so, but they basically looked at open jobs that were available in those 17 states and tried to assess like what were the key skills that were needed for those open jobs in those states. And Idaho was one of them. And there were other states like, you know, Mississippi and Kansas and Louisiana. Alabama, Florida. I think South Carolina was on that list, and New York was another one. And it was so interesting that the key, the top 2 skills that were required for over 80% of open jobs in all of those states were leadership. And what was the other one? Leadership and Communication. Communication. So like, it goes a little bit further in terms of like employers are really looking for people to have those qualities, because then at that point they can build the skills. So it comes down to communication and leadership. Like, are you, are you a good communicator? Leadership is the piece of it. And do you accept leadership so that the constructive criticism comes into play with that? But then, are you someone that shows up on time? Do you, you know, do you have a good attitude? You know, like things like that. Like if you have those finite skills or what was referred to previously as soft skills, but now we call them durable skills because they're transferable to really any job that you have. But if you're someone that has those qualities, you're employable.

And oh yeah, absolutely. And if you are not sure if you have those qualities, learn them. And how do you learn leadership and communication skills? Certifications. There are so many certifications. Go to Udemy, um, and learn some. I will tell you, the best leaders that I know, that I have worked with, that have been my mentors, are constantly learning how to be a better leader. They're not looking at being a boss. They don't want to be a boss. They want to be a leader. There's very different skills involved with both of those. So read every leadership book that you can. Go to leadership summits, online things, like do as much of that as possible. That is, those are both skills that you can really learn. Communication skills. One of the best ways that a lot of my clients, I have them learn their communication skills is join Toastmasters.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And I've been a guest to a few of those events that they have weekly. And yeah, that's huge. And so the communication piece plays in that because like you need to be a good communicator if you utilize Toastmasters. So yeah, that's huge. You know, networking, like that's big. Your online presence is really big in that as well. But like in all of this, like it seems that like our conversation has been— is about skills and like building skills, but it seems like it has slanted towards, you know, like the employee piece of it and how they can get that job that they've always wanted. That's a big part of it. And because I think, as you— as I'm sure you agree, that there are so many people, especially those that are neurodivergent, that are really disenfranchised from the workforce. or they feel hopeless that they can't get that job because of whatever barriers they're facing. These are perfectly attainable things in terms of the certification piece of it. You have a lot of programs that will cover the cost, potentially free. And then on the other side, you can learn to be a better communicator no matter— like, yes, neurodivergent individuals have those challenges, but that's something that they can learn. And then—

oh yeah, absolutely.

Yep.

Um, if you're neurodivergent and you're struggling with those things, this is where one of the worst skills that are taught— and maybe they're taught through trauma, they're taught through— there's a lot of things out there— is not asking for help and not having the right support systems in place. When you are— I don't care whether you're neurotypical or neurodivergent or disabled or, or whatever, wherever you are— if you are a human adult looking for a full-time job, if you don't don't have personal life support, then you're go— you're gonna struggle more, especially if you're neurodivergent, especially if you have a disability. One of the best things that I did for myself to become successful and to have less struggles in my marriage, in my life as a parent, and all of those things is get myself a coach. And I, what I don't— didn't just get a life coach that told me, taught me mindset and affirmations and stuff. No, I looked for a practical skills coach who taught me how to organize, who taught me how to time manage, who taught me executive functioning skills. And then when you learn those executive functioning skills, those become those durable skills that you need in a workforce.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So the key in that— and we've talked about this in previous conversations— is you really need to be true to yourself.

Oh, yeah.

So like that, you know, being honest with yourself about like what your shortcomings may be and really lean on your community to help you with developing those skills. So like, you know, talking to friends, talking to Your current employer and saying, you know, hey, I really want to work on this, this, this, and that. Like, and so you have to put yourself in a place of vulnerability. Like, you have to. And I think, you know, the key to success is really being vulnerable, one of them. So like, if you're in a place in which you're true to yourself about like what it is you need to work on, and then you also make that sacrifice that you need to make in terms of, you know, maybe having to go back to school and get that certification while you're working full-time. Many people do it. You can do it as well. It's really that simple.

Well, and we say it's that simple, but maybe you need support to be able to do it. Maybe you need an online— maybe you need a body double. Maybe you need to have a coach to help you be accountable or community to get those things done because we don't have those people in our personal lives or we feel bad relying on on people in our personal lives to do that. And it's having somebody that can help you through it because you can do it. And I don't care how disabled you are. I don't care how neurodivergent you are, what mental health issues you have. If you commit to doing something and get the support around yourself that you need to complete the skill, then you can do it.

Yeah. And that's where NDLR comes in, is that we and our team can help you with that.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, daily body doubling. We're body doubling right now. I've got a whole entire screen full of people body doubling right now because we— it is such a huge part of what we do. But the other part of it is understanding and having a clear picture and having clarity of what skills you need to build. And that's something that we also help with. You could talk with Tim. You don't get just one person on our team. You get everybody on our team when you, when you need something like that. So do you know what you need to do to build your skills out? To get a new position, to grow in your company, to get— just plain find a new job, all of these things, we absolutely can help you with that.

So I can sit down with neurodivergent individuals and really anybody and kind of get an assessment of what their current skills are. There are assessments that can be taken to kind of get a sense of like what you might be interested in. And so like maybe there's a career that you've never thought of that is Going to be your dream career that popped up out of nowhere. And then, okay, now here are the skills you need to build. Here's your local program that can help you get those skills. Here's your local vocational rehabilitation program that can help you with potentially covering the cost completely 100%.

Mm-hmm.

So that's the type of conversation that I can have with you about that A to Z of like basically a roadmap of what steps you need to take to get there.

Absolutely. And something that I found when I was like researching to talk about this, because I know that skill-based hiring is huge and for client retention and all kinds of things from the employer standpoint. But did you know that according to the U.S. Department of Labor, so the best version of where they can get that data from, individuals with disabilities have a higher retention rate, 91% of employees with disabilities that were only hired based on skills, not education, perform at or above expectations. 91%.

Yeah, I've heard that number before, and I believe it truly. I've seen it. So yeah, and it's interesting because there are other structured programming that's out there that Also has a success rate of about 91%. And when you, when you, when you look at the number 91%, the other 9% are, you know, like something happened, some extenuating circumstance, a family issue, a health issue. So 91% is basically perfect. It's basically saying that it's a fail-safe way for you to have a career pretty much right off the bat. And like, it's a guarantee.

And for a company, When you have diversity and inclusion in your team, companies that accentuate that and champion disabilities have a 28% higher revenue.

Yep.

Double their net income and profit margins by 28 to 45% in the first year of having skill-based hires.

Yeah. And then there's also a lot of studies that have been done, and I don't have the numbers in front of me, but about the innovation that happens within your company when you hire someone with a disability because you have that different perspective. You have a particular need that that employee has that, oh, we can help you with that. And oh, wait a minute, here's a market for it. And then they sell this potential, this service, this product. And then, yeah, so like there's so many individuals with disabilities that actually invented something within their employer that helped them you know, increase the revenue or even have a tweak in the business model as a result of the innovation that happens.

So a 45%— a 30 to 45% increase of profit margins in a year of hiring somebody. That's huge.

Yeah, that's insane. Like, most employers are looking to maybe hopefully get a gain of 4 to 5% in profit per year. So to have that sort of jump is— yeah, that's—

So if 91% of your employees with disabilities perform above or at expectations and they increase your profit margin by 30 to 45%.

Yeah.

And these are people without college degrees. They're skill-based learners.

Yeah. Yep, exactly. So here's some talking points that I want to bring up. I'm going to do kind of the same thing that we did last week, if you don't mind. That worked great. I'm going to start reading down the list of things that I've developed in prep for this conversation. And so here are some key reasons why you need to have skill-based hiring practices. So like, we've had a big conversation about the other side of it, the employee side, which is very key. Like, it takes two to tango the situation. So like, so we— I think we've covered that fairly well. So on the employer side, and it doesn't matter if you're a large multinational corporation or you're a small mom-and-pop that just has business with them, in your, your region. So there needs to be a focus on skills over degrees, which we've already talked about. So skill-based hiring emphasizes evaluating candidates based upon their capabilities and experience rather than formal education credentials. So that's key. And this approach opens the door to a broader talent pool.

Yeah, absolutely. You've expanded your talent pool easily by 40 to 60% by looking It's skills only, and not just only analyzing college education.

There's a company here in Boise that I tried to have a conversation with, and it really didn't go anywhere. But I'm talking to the VP of the company that it was an IT outsourcing company. And I said, you know, I noticed that your website says that bachelor's degree is the minimum requirement for your IT positions, for your entry-level IT positions. And she said, yeah. And I said, I gave her a bunch of numbers as to why you may want to tweak that approach. And that conversation never went anywhere. And I keep checking whether either they don't update their website or they just have open positions all the time that they can't fill. So that's an example of my money.

Yeah. And you're limiting, you're limiting your income potential when you do that. End of story.

Yeah. So, you know, the reason why we want to have skill-based hiring is that it addresses talent shortages, which we've already talked about. Just kind of reiterated the previous point that many industries are facing talent shortages, and skill-based hiring can bridge this gap by recognizing non-traditional talent. So number 3, diversity and inclusion. It's kind of a—

Yeah, I hate that these words are words that are— shouldn't say those words anymore because they mean they've politically been stolen for other things that don't actually mean that, unfortunately. But diversity and inclusion and equity, DEI, and I know that those are a lot of people, especially older People have major issues with hearing those words. But you want to know what? 30 to 45% increase in your bottom line if you implement DEI. End of story.

You know, like I said, like what I put out here for this, by reducing emphasis on degree, skill-based hiring promotes diversity and inclusion. So now you're hiring non-traditional talent pools. It helps level the playing field, particularly for underrepresented groups. That, you know, kind of going back to Connecticut, we'll really tap into inner-city Hartford, Connecticut, Tamopore. So these are multi-generational individuals, multi-generational poverty individuals that, like, they have a mindset of, it is what it is, you know, I'm not I'm not going to do any better than mom and dad. And we can go in and say, actually, if you go to a local community college, 6 months to get a certification, you're, you're making $80,000 a year to start. And the light bulb goes in their head. They're like, really? I can do that? And it was always wonderful to see that.

Absolutely.

Yeah. It improved workforce agility. So employers gain more adaptable workforce when they're hiring based upon skills. Employees who are hired for their actual capability tend to be more versatile and better suited for dynamic business environments. So, you know, that kind of goes without saying.

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, there's nothing I can add there because yes.

Yeah. Now this next one, like, I did some studies on this and that came up and I'm not 100% sure I agree I agree on that piece of it because there's so many employers that I see that are not doing well in this area in terms of reducing the time to hire. So when you have skill-based learning, you are speeding up the recruitment process by focusing on core competencies needed for the role rather than waiting for candidates to meet all degree and credential requirements. That's great, but then there's a lot of employers that still wait 3 to 6 months before they even tell the applicant that they They've been accepted or rejected for the job. Yeah.

So, I mean, having a shorter hiring process is necessary. We need to re— again, add the human touch back into it. Have a hiring person, have a hiring person with a clue. Um, and the comp— companies, I don't know if fear of missing out, FOMO, is a big problem for companies these days or what the heck the problem is, but a 3 to 6 month hiring process is ridiculous.

Yeah. You know, you know, having multiple, multiple, multiple interviews with different panels and on top of the assessment that was done that was whitted out by AI. And—

You want to know what? They've been doing this for a good 3 to 5 years that they have been doing this process that they're stuck in and they aren't increasing their bottom lines. They're not hiring better employees. Like this process that somebody decided that should be instituted isn't netting them better Employees.

Yeah, yep, absolutely. Um, now this one I know you're gonna agree with 100%, and that's, that's kind of goes without saying, but we're gonna say it anyways, is, um, you get better performance and retention when you hire based upon skill base.

Oh yeah, because when you hire somebody that on paper looks like they might have— they learned about it in school, that means they don't know how to apply it, they don't know how to do it. But when you get somebody who already has the skills One, they're most likely to expand their skills. Skill-based learners are always learning.

Yeah, absolutely. You know, that brings up a really great point of how I tried to structure in my previous role where I helped coordinate a registered apprenticeship program here in Idaho, which is one of the most successful in the country now. And the thing that I really would try to teach students and employers is that let's get away from the linear pathway of you go to high school, you graduate high school, you go to school, get a 4-year or 6-year degree, and then you work. That makes learning a parallel pathway with your career. So you start your career potentially while you're still in high school. You're constantly learning, so you never, never stop learning. So you're always going back to school every few years and learning the new skill, especially in the IT field. You're always in a place of like having to learn the newest thing that comes out, the newest technology, the new security issues. And so that's the kind of a mindset that employers need to have is like, you know, like learning never stops and employees need to have that same mindset. That's really the state of the economy as it stands today.

We could, if we went back to skills-based, and it used to be skill-based hiring, that is what mattered more than anything else. If we went back to that, I would guarantee we would see a decrease in unemployment, an increase in profit margins for almost every company. I mean, just start people young, start people— start them in high school. I did my son, and it was one of the best decisions ever. And the skills that he has are now carrying over into his big boy— I call it his big boy job. Don't— he gets mad at me. He's 20, gonna be 27 this year. Uh, but All of those skills that I made him learn in high school are ones that— those are the ones that are the most important for him in adult life.

Yeah, you know, like, there's so many thoughts in my head about that. But, you know, basically, like, you, you know, like, I don't even know where to begin with that. Just kind of like understanding that, like, as an employer, you really need to tweak how you go about approaching of hiring sustainable talent. And then there are tools out there, you know, we keep referring to registered apprenticeship, and that piece is becoming very nationalized now for a very good thing because there are over 2,000 occupations that are considered apprenticeable. So you're in a place of being able to hire and build like a roadmap with skill sets over the course of a long period of time. Some apprenticeships can be 6 months, some of them are 4 years long. But though, you know, it's basically that framework really needs to be the mindset of all employers, no matter like if you're white collar or blue collar. It's the whole idea of building a roadmap, hiring people with low or little skills, and like implementing an education pathway as part of it.

Oh, absolutely. I mean, that— I just— the fact that companies don't want to build good employees, they're just hoping that they appear out of thin air just boggles my mind because I hear employers, big companies, big CEOs complain all the time about the talent pool that they get to hire from. And I'm like, but you're not developing your talent pool that you already have.

Yeah. Yeah. So now, now here, here's something that— now this is big. Um, there are incredible industry examples of skill-based hiring. Companies like Google, IBM, Apple, Microsoft have adopted skill-based hiring practices and reduced reliance on formal degrees and instead prioritizing practical experience. Their success has demonstrated long-term benefit to that approach.

Absolutely. I mean, you can't even argue that. All of those companies have done that. HP, Used to do it. I don't know if they still do. Um, most IT companies and development companies, companies that write some of the biggest software, at least 95% of their staff is skill-based, not degree-based.

Yeah. So then why, why are smaller employers that are doing remote IT tech support, um, still requiring bachelor's degrees?

I have a buddy who is a developer. And he works once a year. He goes in, he gets hired based on his skills and his portfolio. He makes $200,000 on a project, and he will work himself to death to get this project done. And then he takes the whole entire rest of the year off and travels and does all kinds of stuff.

Yeah, yeah. I think I know who you're talking about. And then, so there are challenges to implementation. So like that, that's the big thing here, and probably kind of the crux of this conversation is there needs to be a cultural shift within your organization to be able to do this. So like, and now circling back to the comment that I've made many, many times over the course of our several conversations that we've had, you know, these weekly conversations have been quite fun. is the idea that we are in a worker shortage. So we are in a demographic drought where there are more people that are retiring from the workforce than being born into the workforce and working towards developing a career. So we are in a place where the economy is constantly growing, so that unless there is a major, major Great Depression type of crash, It's the economy that's going to be constantly growing. So there's going to be a constant increased need for skilled labor in an economy in which we have less people being born into the economy. And then on top of this, we know on a worldwide scale, China is on a downturn. China is losing more workforce. Like just in 2019 alone, they lost more people due to retirement, deaths, That sort of thing, which is, you know, that—

Wow.

It is what it is. They lost more people than the entire German workforce in one year. And that's the kind of thing where now Chinese manufacturing has started to come back to Germany, the UK, all across Europe and the United States. Africa is starting to boom as well. That's another thing that's happening in parallel and layered with all that. So our economy, the American economy, is going to grow even more. Because those are going to be highly dependent on that manufacturing for the economy to keep turning. So you need to have a cultural shift and you need to have it now.

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And again, you're missing out if you're not looking at skill-based learners. You're missing out on people with more experience than somebody who just graduated from college. Experience trumps learning any day of the week. Sorry. And as somebody who was back in school to get her PhD, I'm still telling you experience trumps pretty much anything. 2, you're missing out on all of the neurodiverse population because your path to hiring is ridiculous. And this comes back to— we've talked about this multiple times now— put the human, take the AI out of the hiring process and shrink your hiring process to 1 month or less.

Yeah, you know, I read a while ago when I heard a presentation by a fellow board member for my State Rehabilitation Council that I'm the chair of this council and for one of my subordinates. He did a presentation on hiring individuals with autism and it was absolutely mind-blowing. I actually think he may actually be a good guest for another conversation. One of the things that I was reading up as he's presenting because he was just blowing me away with some of the things he was talking about is that the unemployment rate Among autistic individuals in the United States is 85%. So 15% of the autistic population in the United States is gainfully employed.

Yeah. And you want to know why? It's not because they're not employable. It is not because they're bad employees. It is because people won't accommodate them in the hiring process. 90% of that is hiring process.

Yeah. Yeah.

Because I will tell you, as one, as an autistic, and 2, as someone who hires autistics and has worked in companies with multiple autistic people on, on staff and ADHD, you wanna know who your best employees are, who will go and work themselves to the— and I don't promote this with my clients. I tell them work-life balance, but they will work themselves to death to figure out how to solve a problem. Because we hate unanswered questions. We hate. But that also means that employers have to do better in training their managers and their staff to support these individuals. And you want to know what kind of support I need from an employer? I need to be able to ask why and get an answer to the question.

Yeah.

You know, I need a transcript. I need to have transcription in a phone call so that I have notes for after, so I don't have to keep notes. So I can focus on the conversation. That's it. I don't need major accommodations. I need to be able to ask why I'm doing the thing. I don't care whether I like the answer or not. That's not what I'm looking for when I ask why. I just want to understand what the point of this is so I can put all of the dots together to do the thing. I might not like your answer. That's not the point. The point is I just need to know why so I can dive in and do the whole thing.

Yeah, I know someone who's very autistic that works for an IT company that She literally just, you know, put in the proverbial room, and anytime a big emergency happens, they bring her out. She solves the problem immediately, and then they send her back. And, you know, she saved an insane amount of money for this company. So like, there's many examples of that where they just have a skill that you may have to adapt how you go about develop, like team up invitation. But you have something that, like money, the amount of money that you save and the amount of value that that person brings, it's something that you can't really count.

And an autistic person and an ADHD person, for the most part, if you say, we have a skill gap on this team, who's willing to fill this gap? You want to know how long it takes for an autistic and an ADHD person to do it? Half the time that it would take a normal neurotypical person and They'll actually research every single thing about it that ever has ever existed and know way more than just the certification program will give them.

Yeah. Yeah. So tell me, like, like in terms of us, like, what did, where did NDI Live come into this? And like, how can we help neurodivergent individuals or help employers with that cultural acceptance that they need?

So for neurodivergent individuals, so we'll handle it from the employee side first. One, we can help you get clarity. We can help you put skills together, help you fill gaps with skills to get good jobs. Tim is going to work with you to help show you a good career path, help you create the career path, help you get the training you need. So Tim comes in at that aspect. How do I come in? I train your managers on how to work with individuals with disabilities, neurodivergence, being hearing impaired, all of the disabilities. We come in, we train your staff. Staff to deal with it. 2, we look at your company as a whole, find all of their strengths and weaknesses, and help you adapt to them so that you increase your bottom line 30 to 45% in your first year doing this. And then we support the individuals one-on-one. We give them, and we can be part of your benefits package at your company to help your neurodivergent disabled individuals get all of the mental health and life skills support that they need.

Yeah, yeah. And, you know, it goes without saying, because I've said this to some of my clients and former clients, is the key in this is that I don't have a former client. All of my clients, they stay my clients for as long as needed. So, like, you know, we come in for either online or even in-person support to help you with creating that internal structure that you need within your team or your whole company. But it's not like we're done, we go away once the contract is done. Like, we're—

Absolutely not. We're there. I mean, I have a client who— I had a manager who emailed me last week that I haven't talked to in 3 months. She's like, I have this new individual we're looking at hiring. Can you please look at their resume? Tell me what some of their strengths, weaknesses may be, any red flags to you, and would you be willing to come into our first onboarding meeting and talk with them and make sure that we're accommodating everything that they need?

Yeah. So, you know, please reach out to me or Danielle on LinkedIn and/or, you know, we have many, many other ways to be contacted. And we would really, really, really love to help you.

Yeah, we could help you. Again, let's increase that bottom line. Let's hire better employees and give you a better talent pool to pick from. I hope you have an amazing day and we'll talk to you again next week.