How He Went From 0 to 300k Followers In 12 MONTHS | Ft. Zach Windahl

And so I spent all of my attention in 2023 on TikTok, and we ended up growing to like 300,000 followers. It became the number 4 fastest growing consumer product in all of America.

Yeah, if you're listening to this, don't ever be too full of yourself or stuck up to answer the DMs yourself.

I sold half a million copies of a book before I ever told anybody I was an author. Because I wasn't confident that I was a good writer, even though—

Hey guys, welcome to the Brand Builders Podcast. I'm Katie.

I'm Darren. And this is Olivia.

This is our other half. We're so excited you're here today. We bring in Zach Windall to talk about his new release and just behind the scenes of his business and how he's grown it.

So the book is 10 out of 10. There's going to be a link in the description if you want to snag the book to read it for yourself. And let's get into the episode.

Do it.

The Bible Simplified.

Come on, let's go.

Is— I'm not gonna lie, I don't usually do that. I don't usually like tag authors, um, but we were— we straight up, we had a new Barnes Noble open up in our town, right?

Yeah, that's— that shows how small Abilene is.

Huge for Abilene.

Let's go.

And we saw the COVID and we were like immediately drawn to it.

But wait, there's like even a cool thing. In our living room, like 2 weeks prior to finding this book, I looked at Darren, I said, I'm studying the Bible and I'm like, man, sometimes this just doesn't make sense. And I'm like, the timelines, the stories, like when did this happen and why are these people important? Like I was frustrated. I was like, like, I want to go to seminary but I want to understand it. And for sure Darin was like, oh, there's a bunch of books out there, you know, whatever. And then we found yours.

Let's go. No way.

The branding, the branding of the book itself was on point. It is on point.

Thank you.

Thank you. And then I was like, okay, who is this guy? So I go check out your social as any Gen Zer would do.

Yeah.

And I was like, dude, this guy is killing it.

He's killing the game.

This is what we talk about all the time. We, we help with video stuff. We help with content creation, building brands.

Yeah.

And that's what this whole podcast is about.

So yeah, your content's life-giving and entertaining. I watched the one— I was creeping on you before I got up here—

but the one where you're like taping up the poster under the highway, it's like, yeah, let's go, you know, just trying to vandalize a little bit in the name of, you know, Rage Against the Machine style.

So let's get into the first question, um, And Katie, Katie wrote it down. I don't have this one written down. The content creator or the author first?

Oh yeah, um, so I was really curious, did you start like building content on your social media before you even wrote The Bible Simplified? Or like, how did that journey kind of happen? Did you write the book and then you're like, man, I got to promote this?

Like, yeah. So, uh, yeah, great question. In 2015, I wrote a book called The Bible Study, and it was basically, uh, it held— holds your hand as you read through the entire Bible over the course of a year. And I made it so that it was kind of like a coffee table book, essentially. So it was like beautiful on the inside, but then also like you would learn a lot. I feel like with most Bible studies, people throw them away when you're done with them, but I wanted this one to be like something that you put out on your table and, and have it be a conversation starter as well. So I wrote that book in 2015, 2016, and I had no platform. I had no experience with a publisher or anything. And I was like, you know what, I'm just gonna do everything myself. So I— and, and I said I was gonna do everything by myself because no publisher would give me the time of day, and also no church— no churches would give me the time of day because I didn't have a platform. So I was like, I'm gonna go direct to the consumer. And so we ended up doing this Kickstarter campaign in 2017 that was a successful campaign, which allowed us to go to print with our first round of books. And over the next 4 years, we actually took that product, we built a whole business around it, and it became the number 4 fastest growing consumer product in all of America, out of all consumer products, which is like insane, um, according to Inc. 5000. And in 2022, we ended up selling that business to a bigger publishing house. And from there it was like, okay, I have some followers, not a ton, um, and I have the time available now to do something new. And I was like, if I want to release any new products, I need to have a platform first. And so I spent the following 2 years really building out a platform as big as I possibly could. Uh, I was like, I'm gonna post 3 times a day on TikTok for an entire year, whether I gain 1,000 followers or 100,000 followers. I'm gonna do the same thing no matter what. And so I spent all of my attention in 2023 on TikTok, and we ended up growing to like 300,000 followers. And then I was like, oh, that's kind of crazy that that worked so well. And I was like, let me try that on Instagram. So in 2024, all of last year, I did kind of the same thing on Instagram, and we ended up growing a couple hundred thousand followers. And I was like, wow, this is like— it's amazing how much you can break it down to a science a lot of the times, uh, when it comes to like expanding your audience and then bringing people in and, uh, potentially selling them a product if that's what you want to do. And so I was like, let me, let me grow this audience as much as I possibly can, and then, uh, and then sell them, uh, my books so that they can go deeper, and hopefully their life has changed even more than just from a 45-second video. And so, uh, that's like where this— the new book comes into play, uh, came out in July, and it was like, uh, now that we have the audience there, let's get them something that they can go deeper with.

Dude, yeah, that's awesome. So what would you say grew faster, Instagram or TikTok?

Uh, honestly, they, they both grew at about the same rate. There was a year difference, uh, and then like when TikTok growth went down, that's when Instagram growth went up. So I think there's kind of like a pendulum with them a lot of the times where it's like, okay, when one of them's killing it, the other one might not be. Might be a little more stagnant, and then vice versa. So I'm just always trying to post on both platforms to see, uh, which one's working at the time. And either way, I'm always going to post whether it grows or not, because I think the repetition and the consistency of it, over time you're going to hit spurts where you get a ton of followers. Like, I posted this one video last year on Instagram and it brought in 90,000 followers from one video. But it wouldn't have happened if I wasn't consistent the 6 months prior to it.

Yeah. So what do you think happened, and what was the biggest difference from that specific video that caused you to get such traction online?

I think the biggest thing when you— with, uh, getting people to follow you— so I'm, I'm always fascinated by what makes people follow you. And then also, just because you get a lot of views or a lot of engagement on one video, you don't necessarily get the followers from it. So like, I posted a video last week that got 80,000 views, but I grew like 1,600 followers from it. But then I'll post another style of video that gets 500,000 views and I grow 20 followers. So there isn't really like that much of rhyme or reason with them. Usually it has to do with something that's shareable. So like, shareability has been everything for me. And then with that, it has to be something unique enough for them to want to follow you. So I'll post these things which are like, like handwritten signs, or I'll like drop them off of like, um, bridges and stuff like that. And they're cool and they get a ton of followers, or they get a ton of views but they don't get a ton of followers. Uh, but when you— like, I posted a video last week that was like 4 things to pray for your kids as they're starting school this year. That's something that— that's what makes people want to follow you because it's something that is a little bit deeper. So I would say like with most of my content, I'd say like 50% of it, I look at it as like from a marketing funnel. So like 50% of it is like top of funnel, which is like, let me throw my net as wide as possible and get people into the, into the funnel. So it's not going to be super deep, but it's going to be a little more relatable, a little more shareable. And then maybe 30% or 40% is middle of funnel, so you're going to go a little bit deeper with the Bible. And then about 10% might be bottom of funnel, where I'm essentially selling a product or sharing something that I have created to help them go deeper in their faith.

Yeah. So when it comes to funneling them down the funnel, right, and they're at the point where they followed you, they've been watching you for a while, they trust you, they see your product, what does that process look like of like capturing them as a potential client or a lead? Do you have like an email list or how does that work?

Yeah, so I use— I'm a huge advocate for ManyChat in chat funnels. And so I have, uh, like word triggers for, uh, comments or for DMs or for replies on stories. And I have them set up where it's like, uh, comment the word book and I'll send you the link. But then from there, I worked with this incredible company that I recommend for everybody to work with. They're called, um, uh, School of Bots, and they, uh, help you build out what that conversation is in the chat. So instead of just like you comment the word book and all of a sudden you get a link in your DM. Now when you comment the word book, I get— I, I grab their, their name, I grab their email, and then I, I provide them with the links. And by grabbing their email, I have it set up using this program called Make.

Hey, really quick, I wanted to let you guys know about a 5-day challenge. It's called 5-Day Build Loop Video Challenge. There's we put together exactly for you, because if you're watching this, you're probably an entrepreneur, a business person, or a creator who's looking to monetize. And so if that's you, there's going to be a link in the description. We're going to be going over all of the things that I've learned and took away over the last 4 or 5 years to figure out how to make content work for your business and not against your business. And so for us, this is how we get about 90% of our clients with on our business and it's 10x, sometimes 100x our engagement and views and even leads. Same exact thing goes for all of our clients. And so if you're interested in this, click the link below and apply today. There's only a limited number of spots because it is one-on-one. And so hope to see you in the challenge. Let's get back to the episode.

Or Zapier is another one. It does the same thing, but it essentially—

automation, baby.

Yeah, it just Yeah, so that, that by, by acquiring their email in ManyChat, Make automatically sends them an email from my ManyChat account, which is like a, like a intro email that gives them a little bit of info on me. And then from there I have, uh, 2 newsletters that go out every single week. So one on Monday and one on Thursday. And those are kind of like your, your like Seinfeld emails or your emails that are just like can want, uh, helping you become like at the forefront of their mind throughout the week. And they're just like little punches of something that's either encouraging or helpful in their faith. So then like, because you're top of mind all the time, when you do have something to sell, then it's like bang, bang, bang, send out a bunch of emails at once and they'll most likely convert.

Dude, that's awesome. So having all these automations in place, um, have you found the, uh, what do you call it, the conversion rates go up?

Yeah.

Or did you ever try to do it manually?

So when you're, when you're just sending emails, like, conversion rates are pretty low most of the time. But when it comes to DM automation, your conversion rates are insane. Like, your open rates are like 98% usually, and whereas an email might be 20, 30, 40, 50%. Like you're almost doubling your open rates alone with email or with, uh, ManyChat automations. And so that alone is huge. Conversion is there, and then if you double it up with the emails, I think it works really well. The first time I did an automation, actually, I was doing these like free little devotional books that I printed, and I, I had it set up as like a free plus shipping campaign. So like I made the the, these little books for free. They paid for shipping and I would send it to them. You could do the physical or the digital version. And over the course of like 2 weeks with that, I acquired like 17,000 email addresses. And that was really what allowed me to continue the newsletters and maintain that relationship with people for a year and a half later when I had the book coming out. So I'm typically like at least a year and a half out, like, in my thinking. It's like, okay, if I'm going to release this book in a year, I need to start working on these things now to help, uh, shift their mindset to, uh, want to purchase it when it actually comes out.

Dude, that's crazy. So lead magnets.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, 100%. And like, that can be, uh, something super simple, or it could be something really intense. And I don't know if lead magnets work as well today as they did in the past, especially when it comes to ads. Like, when I was running the brand Sunday, our entire business was built off of ads, and I, I just don't think ads convert the same today as they did back then, especially for like a religious product. Like, you have to have such big margins, and we did have pretty big margins at the time, which was amazing. But like, if you're running ads right now for a product that's $20, It's just not worth it. So I'm like such an advocate for just focusing on organic content because that's what's actually going to convert most of the time.

Dude, it's huge. And just building that trust, like the relationship through organic content, that's what a lot of people don't really— so in Abilene where we're at, um, yeah, they're like 5 to 10 years behind of like any Metroplex, any big city, right? Um, I think there's about 150,000 people here, a bunch of cowboys, a bunch of rodeo.

Yeah.

And so one of my goals has been to like kind of show people these tools, like exactly like what you're talking about. ManyChat, um, that's huge. We've been using that for like a year and it's amazing. It blows people's minds whenever they can just comment on a video and I send them a whole thing.

For sure.

So So that's awesome that, that you're using, and you're using it on a bigger scale than me. And I've seen, I mean, creators with millions of followers utilize it and they get thousands of comments.

Oh, for sure.

Never running out of leads again.

Yeah, literally, right? And so I don't think people, like, I don't think people realize the importance of like giving free content away. And I, I think a lot of people are like, no, I want to hold this like close to me because I'm gonna sell it to them later. But like making stuff free for people for extended periods of time, that's really where trust gets built. I mean, look at Alex Hormozi, did his book release this weekend and he sold over 3.5— no, uh, I like tuned in a few times just for a little bit, but like, I mean, he sold almost 3.5 million copies of his book in like 48 hours. And it's because he spent, what, almost 10 years putting out free content for people and providing them so much value that they feel obligated to purchase from you. And I think that's like a really key factor, is like providing value constantly so that the obligation comes once the, the product is actually available.

Dude, yeah, that's awesome. I was about to ask you if you study Hermosi stuff because I'm— yeah, I'm for sure that he is 100% genius.

Yeah, absolutely. I, I like— I'm literally looking at everything that he's doing and figuring out, okay, how can, how can we do a Christian version of that? How can we do, uh, something on not as big of a scale? Like, if he's got— if he has 5 million followers, I don't know how many he actually has, but But if somebody has 5 million followers, how do you convert that to my business? And I think when a lot of people are starting out with content, they're like, let me just look at my direct competitors and then figure out how to do what they're doing at, in like with, at my scale. Whereas I think people would really succeed if they chose people that were outside of their actual competition and figured out how to do their version of it. So I might look at somebody that's a motivational speaker that I think is crushing it on Instagram, and I'm figuring out how can I make the Christian version of that. Or I'll look at somebody that's like a singer-songwriter artist that's growing rapidly, and then I'm like, okay, how can I take pieces from what, what's working for them and work in, uh, in my lane as a Christian author? And so I think learning to pull pieces from all these different lanes is crucial, dude.

Yeah. So let me ask you this. So content is obviously a huge part of your marketing for your book. Is that all of your marketing, or do you do other things? Do you do like any local ads, or what does that look like for you?

So we're running some ads, but mainly, uh, content. And then, uh, TikTok Shop is like massive. Like, if I could do anything in the world, it would be like TikTok Shop and just push stuff, like push content towards that all day long. But then, like, when you're working with a publisher, it's different than if you're doing things on your own. So back in the day when I was doing it on my own, I had a team of 17 people that worked for me, and like, they were running ads, they were doing everything possible to get the book out there. But now it's different because now I have a whole, uh, machine behind me that is able to get the book in places that I'm not able to do on my own. Uh, they really focus on distribution and marketing in places that, uh, aren't my strong suit. So I'm such an advocate for working with a publisher because then it's like best of both worlds. If I can just focus strictly on content and the digital side and then allowed them to grow on the distribution and partnership side, then it's like a breeze.

That's awesome. And you worked really hard to build that content. Like, you were talking about your year of building for like each platform. And we had another guest that we pulled on— actually, a lot of our guests that we brought on, we kind of like, here at the Brand Builders Community, we kind of focus on like um, it doesn't just happen overnight. Like, success sometimes— fluke things, video goes off and you get 90K followers or, um, whatever. But it takes a lot of hard work and you posting consistently all the time. Like, ups and downs. Were you ever like, man, do I really want to do this?

Oh yeah, yesterday. Like, literally all the time I'm thinking that. Like, is it— is it— like, I'm always questioning, like, is this worth it? Because it takes so much time. I mean, yeah, now my system is kind of set up where it's like, okay, now maybe I'm spending 15 hours a week between, uh, research, uh, writing, shooting, editing, and scheduling. But the last 2 years, I probably spent 40 hours a week on like studying, seeing what works for other people, writing, shooting, uh, editing, scheduling, the whole deal. So it's not like something that you can just do super easy. Uh, I think people are like, oh well, it's just social media, like you just post it. But there's just so much more that goes into it, making sure that what you're saying is actually gonna convert. And if you want to grow at a rapid rate and be successful at it, you have to study the data points more so than just posting just a post.

And you're so wise to too. Sorry, Darren, if I cut you off. You're so wise too to like look at other people's content that you said was like performing really well. We encourage people to do that all the time for whatever their niche is. And like you were saying, you were gonna just flip that and focus on like the Christian and like how you can like spread the gospel through your content, you know. And that's so smart, is it takes away some of that time of like sitting there and trying to create like all of these brand new ideas. When there's already some out there that are doing really well.

It would be crazy not to look at people that are crushing it because they've already tested the market to see what works. So if you look at somebody that is consistently getting 100,000 views on a video and then all of a sudden they get 3 million views on a video, there's something about that video that stands out. So look at the hook, look at how they continue to, uh, keep engagement through the whole video. Look at how it's shot different. Look at what the, uh, what the text on screen is during the hook. How does that change? Look at the lighting and the, like, their, their positioning in the video. Look at, uh, if it's like structured in a specific way, if it's like 3 things about this, or, or like you've heard it said this way but I think it's this way, or like whatever the case is. Like, there's a reason why that video popped off and their audience wanted more of that. And so if you can take all of those heavy hitters that all these other people are doing and figure out your version of it, it's like hack, it's cheat code.

Yeah, for sure.

Absolutely. And if you're listening to this and you're a business owner or building a brand of some sort, I want to emphasize how much Zach is talking about, um, studying and researching what it is you're doing. Um, because that's literally— I feel like I spend way more time researching than I do filming on camera, researching and planning. And so that's huge. Do you ever, whenever you're creating content throughout the week, do you utilize batch creating much? So do you do like—

yeah, 100% one day. I do one week at a time. So on, uh, Tuesdays So this morning was my writing day. So this morning I wrote everything for all of next week. And then, uh, later after this call, I will— I'll prep all of those posts for the week. So I'll go through and edit them, change things up if I think I need to. Um, I'll make the props or whatever it ends up being. Uh, tomorrow morning after, uh, after I've had my coffee and I look presentable, um, tomorrow morning I'll shoot all the content for for next week, and then tomorrow afternoon I'll edit all of the content and schedule it at the same time. So it's usually like a 2-day process right now. And then the rest of the week, just throughout the week, I'm throwing ideas together, I'm, uh, studying other people, I'm looking at what they're doing, I'm writing down notes. And I have a Notion document that's like— that has probably 300 posts prepped right now, and then I'm like going through those and, uh, choosing like, okay, uh, like every week I have a specific structure where I'm posting, uh, 2 posts a day. And it's like, okay, on Mondays I'm probably going to do a devotional in the morning, and Thursday mornings I'm going to do a devotional. And then Wednesdays I'm going to teach Bible, uh, Friday I'm going to do something lighter because Friday night usually doesn't perform well, so I'll do something that that's more like, uh, viral-focused. And it's like, based on throughout the week, I, I have like a template and then I just kind of replicate that every single week.

Yeah, that's awesome. So you're basically— what you're saying is you're a one-man team. You don't have like social media managers, editors, like you do everything yourself?

Yeah, 100% in-house. And then my wife will send me like funny videos that I should replicate sometime. Same.

Yeah, that's why it's really important, just letting you know.

Yeah, 100%.

Have you ever tried to use a team for this stuff?

No, not at all. Well, actually, uh, uh, sorry, I, I should say yes, I have. Uh, like 3 years ago I hired somebody and then fired them within a month, and then about, uh, 2 years ago I hired somebody and fired them within a week. So I tried it. Dang.

Who did you like? What position did you hire?

Or like, is it just an assistant or— no, it was more like a social media manager in the sense of like, uh, helping with content ideas. And it was like, it was like, yo, I could have come up with these like as I was making breakfast this morning. Like, not worth it. And so like, I think you know your content more than anybody else. So to try to be reliant on other people is like, ah, a lot of the times it doesn't even make sense for me at least. So I'm just like, I'll do it all. And yeah, like, it's a ton of work and it's not easy, uh, but you maintain control of it and it's free. That's the cool thing about social media, it's free. Like, we literally can post something that like can impact millions of people and then sell a product that can impact millions of people too, and it's free to do it. Like, why not take advantage?

So do you feel like you felt like a tug in your heart and a call from the Lord to use a platform like for his glory? Like, talk a little bit about that.

Yeah, I think like just from the beginning was like, how can I get this book that's getting people into the word like, how can I get that in more hands? And I think the best way to get something into people's hands right now is to be where they're at. And where is everybody? On social media. So it's like, if you, if you really believe in the product that you're creating and what you're, what you're putting out there, and really believe that it's going to change somebody's life, like, at a spiritual level, that's a huge deal. And you shouldn't just like post it on your story once to— because like, you just spent a year working on this, you should be screaming about it from the rooftop. And yeah, so that's what I do with all my stuff is like, how can I get the most eyes on this? Because I truly believe it'll change somebody's relationship with the Bible and their relationship with God. So it's like, let me, let me be where everybody is to make that happen.

Yeah, that's awesome. So Let me ask you this. If you had to choose one, would you consider yourself a content creator or an author?

Oh, great question.

On your book?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I, I sold half a million copies of a book before I ever told anybody I was an author because I wasn't confident that I was a good writer, even though the industry told me otherwise. So I said I was only a content creator and stuff until probably a year ago, and I've been doing this for like 8 years now.

Uh, so when did, when did the Bible Simplified release?

Bible Simplified came out, uh, July 1st of this year, but the Bible study came out in 2017. Yeah, yeah, yeah, month and a half. Yeah, it's been— it was literally the same week that I had my firstborn son. Like, it was a crazy week.

Yeah, so, so working with the publisher, and I kind of want to talk about the book for a second. Um, so we found it at Barnes Noble. So yeah, are they just distributing it all across the country, or how does that work working with the publisher?

Yeah, typically it depends on how well it's selling, and so they'll like test out different markets for books. And so they might have like one or two in stock, and if they continue to sell well, then they'll continue to, um, keep it in stock. Um, but yeah, the nice thing about working with the publisher is they have all of the relationships for distribution like that. So you might see it in Barnes Noble or Target or Hobby Lobby or at the airport or wherever. That's like strictly the publisher, the publishing team, and the places that they get it. And then as like from my perspective is like I'm going all in on content and like personal brand and things that I can control. And then they get the, the bigger deals that I have no right, like, being in the room for.

So, okay, so whenever, say, because that's what we did, we walked into the bookstore, we bought the book.

Yeah.

So do you get like a percentage of that, or is there like an upfront thing that it— how does that like deal work with the publisher?

So there's 3 different ways of doing books for the most part. So you can do it self-published, where you have like a much greater percentage that's yours, but you're putting all of the money up front. You're putting all the money into marketing, into creating the product and everything, but you get a, a bigger percentage. That's what we did for the first 5 years. Um, I've done a book where it's hybrid, so it's like kind of— it's like working with a publisher to distribute it, but then also you're still doing all the printing, you're you're doing all the marketing yourself, so, uh, you're getting a little bit less. And then when you work with a publisher, there's usually an advance that you get, uh, right out of the gate in order to write the book, and then that's split over a few different payments. And then once your advance is paid back, then you start making money off of every copy sold. It's kind of like in the music industry, like you get an advance to make the album, and then once that's paid back, then you start making Cash.

So did you, did you write this book and then have to send it to the publisher and say, or did you like apply, or how does that work?

Yeah, yeah. So working with a publisher, it's, uh, so typically you have an agent and your agent will be your like your middleman between you and the publisher. And then they will, uh, you'll, you'll essentially present them a book proposal, which is, okay, this is what the book is going to be. This is who, uh, uh, what other books it's going to compete with. This is who my audience is. Um, a breakdown of every chapter plus a few sample chapters to show how your writing is. Uh, most publishers won't give you a time of day if you just send them the manuscript or like the whole book in written form. Uh, they want to only look at the, the proposal first. So I did the proposal, ended up, uh, getting the deal, which then allowed me about 8 months or so to write the book. Uh, every deal is different, but with our release schedule, it was about 8 months to take all my thoughts and everything that I had already put together and actually put it down to paper. And then, uh, you work with the publishing team once you submit the whole manuscript, and you go through a ton of rounds of edits, and a bunch of people read it, and you cut a bunch. I think we cut a third of the book, um, within the first month just because we needed to shorten it up a bunch. Um, and so yeah, it's like, it's, uh, at that point it's an ever-changing product that a bunch of people have their hands on. And like, like you said, the, the COVID of it was like really what drew you in. And for me, like, branding and, and the COVID was, is like one of the most important aspects for me. So I, I hired one of my friends that's an incredible designer, and we, we went through probably 150 variations of the COVID before we chose this one. And like, we did everything from taking photos at Barnes Noble to see how it would stand out on the shelf compared to the other books that are popular at the time, and like making sure, like figuring out which colors would pop the most and which ones wouldn't. And, and so like the design for me is, is just as intentional as everything else because I know that like, yeah, we say don't judge a book by a cover, but we all do. And everybody, everybody, everybody does. Yeah. And so I want people to look at it and be like, wow, that actually looks super cool. And it, it feels super simple, but it feels super intentional as well. And so like I, I would hope that the content was the same, especially whenever it's like in a religion section.

Yeah, like, I don't know why, but there's not a ton of cool designs in that section. And so that's immediately when we saw this, we looked at it, we're like, oh shoot, it was like, you know, all the other ones, the spines are showing, and this one was like, you need it.

Yeah, awesome. It was great.

I love it. I feel like I make a lot of YouTube videos, and I'm as— I think you— I just subscribed to you, actually. You do make YouTube videos.

I, you know, I used to. I don't anymore, really. So, but I've been feeling convicted that I need to, so maybe that'll be my push.

So you just make short-form content right now?

For the most part, yeah.

Okay. Well, hey man, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Yeah, exactly right.

Um, but it reminded me of creating thumbnails and titles for YouTube because, yeah, for sure, it's the way you present it, it's the way you package it. And it's like totally way almost, or it's significantly more important, especially on YouTube, because if nobody ever clicks it, right, they don't see what's inside. And if nobody ever looks at it or finds it, they don't see what's inside.

Um, for sure. So yeah, yeah, you can have like, you can have an incredible product, but if you don't package it well, then it's just going to remain unused. And so I'm always like an advocate like for whether it's a book or whether it's an album that somebody's releasing or whatever, is like the actual product is 10% of it. Like the most important thing is how you brand it and how you market it, because if you don't do that well, then it's just going to remain a great product on a shelf that's unused.

100%. Um, okay, so the Bible obviously is a very like complex book full of lots of different stories, scriptures. And so whenever we were reading it, I was blown away by the way that you were able to communicate these very complex ideas in such a simple way. And so awesome. What kind of went behind that, and how were you able to just lay this stuff out? What was your thought process? How much studying was required to pull this off?

Yeah, crazy amount of studying. I basically wrote this book for my younger self because I know that if I read something like that, it would change who I am today and I would be so much further along. And I think if— I think you can do all the studying in the world, but if you can't figure out how to simplify something to explain it to a 10-year-old, then you don't fully understand it. And so I'm always trying to take really complex things and break them down, almost like even though you're just reading it, almost like visually. So it's like, okay, this is, uh, like, this is how simple it needs to be in order to understand it. And I think if you do that, and like what I tried to do with this book is like make it so simple that even, uh, whether you're a 10-year-old reading it or a 60-year-old that's read the Bible 10 times, you're still gonna get a bunch of cool stuff out of it. So I wanted to add like a bunch of little kind of like treasure pieces in every chapter. So it's like, oh, I've read the Bible all these times, but I've never like caught that before. And so yeah, uh, every chapter was intentional like that.

The first 10 pages, me and Katie kept looking at each other like, I had no idea we've been reading the Bible for the last 15 years of our life, and we have never thought about it in that way. And so, yeah, man, that's awesome. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

No, no, that's fantastic. That, that's exactly what, uh, I wrote it for, and that pumps me up more than anything. So thank you for saying that.

And the illustrations and stuff too, I'm like, man, that is helpful. There was a picture of, uh, the temple. What temple was it, Katie? I guess I should ask you.

You're— yeah, Solomon's Temple, Tabernacle, uh, the Tabernacle, the Tabernacle. So helpful to see. But it's like, it's like, why aren't these things like shared more? Because I think when you see that, it's going to make so much more sense when you're reading it. So I think I'm always approaching things like kind of like playing devil's advocate, if you will, like Okay, but like, why? And like, why, why, why? I'm always asking the why and trying to break it down as much as possible. And it's like, okay, we're talking about the Tabernacle for all of these chapters, for half of Exodus, but nobody— like, most people aren't going to look it up to like see what it looked like. So it's like, why not just include those things in? So it's like, oh, that makes so much more sense now. I understand what the Ark of the Covenant looked like, because if you can visualize it, then when you're reading it, you're gonna see it in your mind's eye.

That's funny because I'm, I'm kind of like that as well. I like to visualize things, and so things like the Ark of the Covenant, I have Googled that so many times.

Totally, so for sure.

Yeah, I'm like, this, this object that could kill people, like, I don't know, it was crazy.

Yeah, crazy idea. Insane.

Um, so communication within the book, communication throughout your content, how important um, do you think that is whenever creating whatever it is that you're doing?

Yeah, it's everything. I think we have like the curse of knowledge, like Donald Miller talks about all the time, that we have like the, the curse of knowledge that as business owners or creators, we know so much more than our audience about a specific topic, and you need to like dumb it down. He has this whole thing where it's like the caveman grunt test, where it's like You have to break it down so simple that the other person isn't burning calories by, uh, consuming, trying to figure out what you're actually saying or teaching. And so I love that. I take a bunch of like his, uh, content and bring that into my messaging a lot of the times, um, like using his StoryBrand framework and everything. And I have for like 10 years, uh, because I think it's so helpful and so true. That if you can take these things that may be obvious to me or may be obvious to you with media stuff and you break it down as simple as possible, then anybody can understand it and, and actually know what you're talking about or what you're trying to promote. And so communication there is huge.

That's a skill that is— I thought it was going to be a lot easier than it actually is, and And now that I'm like having to teach stuff, like if we hire somebody on to help with editing or like they all learn in a different way, they, they don't have any experience in this world. And so like I have to go way back and even with Katie, my wife, I'll be at home because she's not as involved in the business as I am.

Yeah.

So I'll be trying to explain something that we have going on or like a new product or something that I'm excited about.

Totally.

It'll be 5 minutes in the conversation, she'll be like, yeah, hey, you lost me about 3 minutes ago.

And I'm like, okay, yeah.

And so, no, I think that's awesome.

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's it. I, I get it. And I think if you can learn to do that, uh, you can be successful in anything.

Yeah, absolutely. So for people listening, what would be— or actually, actually, let's wait for that question. Out of all of the scriptures, what was your favorite to study whenever you were writing this book?

I think I'm so interested in the cultural, um, understanding of what was going on at the time with everything. And so just learning about like how, how would you approach the text from a Jewish perspective is so important considering like we believe that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Testament and that like he grew up like with the books of, of our Old Testament, like the Hebrew Bible. And so I think everything that he did or said was a fulfillment of something in the Old Testament. So I'm always just so curious about, okay, what was like, what was going on and why did he say it this way? And so like with Matthew, for instance, you get a lot of that because Matthew is written to a very Jewish audience. So I'm reading that book and trying to pull out all the little, like, details that you would normally skip over but were actually included for a specific reason. So that's been— that's, that's like the most fun thing for me to study.

Yeah, absolutely. Um, so obviously, along with this content creation, along with being an author, there is a business side of things. And so how do you incorporate your faith with what it is that you're doing, with how you handle business, how you handle hiring, firing, all those things? Um, how do you approach being a faith-based entrepreneur?

Yeah, yeah, that's a great question because right now I'm a one-man show, so I'm not hiring, firing anybody, thank God, um, because those conversations are never enjoyable.

Or even like whenever you're choosing publishers or choosing events to go to? How do you just manage your business and your brand?

Totally. Um, as a faith-based entrepreneur, I think, uh, staying rooted in prayer is massive, and staying rooted in the, the truth of being able to get your product out to as many people. So I want to always be working with people that are the best of the best because they're going to get my message of Jesus out to— in more hands. So in the past, I've hired people that weren't believers, but they knew what they were doing with marketing better than anybody else I knew. And even though they weren't believers, they were essentially spreading the gospel message without even realizing it, which is like super cool, I think. And so I think just staying rooted in your Uh, habits, your time with the Lord, your time in, in the Bible and in prayer, and, uh, staying true to what he's called you to be is like the number one thing. And then secondary, like, I don't think there's any issue with working with people that are also going to help get your message out there faster if they are masters at what they do.

Absolutely. Have you ever turned down opportunities because you felt like the Spirit was like, hey, maybe this isn't a good route?

Or— yeah, 100%. I, I have probably once a year the last 4 years or more. And it's never easy, especially when you're looking at things from like your, uh, your physical, like, worldly sense, where you're like, man, this could be a game changer for our family, but Uh, sometimes you just feel like a lot of US dollars. Yeah, totally. Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's like, man, okay, if, if the Lord doesn't want me to go that direction, then I know he's going to provide in other ways because I've seen him provide in so many ways in the past. And so just being true and, and sticking to your guns and believing that, um, that his ways are actually the best ways are, are what's going to take you forward, I think.

Absolutely. So we like to always bring up, um, just some real stories of building a brand and business. And so have there ever been any times of where it's like there was a massive stump in the road that you were like, man, I don't know that we're going to be able to keep doing this?

Yeah.

If so, how did you overcome that?

Totally. Yeah, I mean, we were— when we were starting, uh when we were probably halfway into our business, maybe like 2 and a half years in, I mean, you're putting in orders overseas for like absurd amounts of money. And when you have like to owe all of this money to a, a manufacturing plant and you may not have the money and you don't know where the money's coming from, you're fully reliant on the Lord to provide. And so we had this one moment where we were like, we had a huge check to pay and we didn't have the money for it. And I felt like the Lord just kept saying like that he was going to show up, that he was going to open the door, that he was going to do it. And every day that I would get stressed out about it, he would just say like, read Exodus 14. And then the next day, read Exodus 14. And the next day. And it was for like a month of me like, God, I don't know where this money is going to come from. And he just—

what does Exodus 14 say?

Like, like in front of the Red Sea, like he was going to part the waters and he was going to take, take them through on dry ground. And for me, that was like, like I felt like he was saying, like, I'm going to take care of it even though you're in front of like these raging waters right now. And I just had to keep believing it every single day. And it was literally after like a month of me stressing out and being told like, I'm gonna take care of it, that all the money came in in like 24 hours from 3 different places in ways that like didn't even make sense. Like, like randomly, here's this account that has like a quarter million dollars in it that like we didn't even realize. And then like over here, how did we forget about it? Yeah, yeah, literally, like it was like an Amazon account that like for some reason wasn't automatically set up and transferring over. And then like these two areas over here that had like a ton of money available. And it was like, oh man, God, you provided at the time when I thought we were about to go bankrupt. And like a year later we had a similar situation, and it was like, how did I forget? I felt like the disciples where it's like, like the Lord provided for the 4,000, and then they're on the boat and they're like, We don't have any bread. We like, what are we gonna do? And it's like, yo, you literally just saw him multiply like and feed 4,000 people, and now you're like later in the afternoon you're worried about not being provided for? And I think same day, always. Yeah, the same day. What are we talking about? And so I feel like I'm always just reminded of that, like anytime that I get stressed about money, because I do all the time. Because like my worldly side is like always fighting, trying to tell me that I need to do it all myself. And so when I'm in those moments of like, okay, what— like, where is it coming from right now? The Lord always reminds me like, hey, I've taken care of you so many times, remember that. And I think that's like a key thing all throughout scripture is like, remember what I've done for you in the past and have hope and faith that I'm gonna do it again for you in the future. And so I stick true to that.

That is so real because there's been multiple times like that in our business, and it's like, sometimes I didn't— I didn't— I— on paper, we weren't going to make payroll, or it wasn't even gonna be close. And so I was like stressing. And then like, this has happened, like, these situations come up multiple times throughout the year.

Yeah.

And every single time, the Lord shows up in ways that I didn't even think would be possible, and it still happens. Like, even this upcoming season, we're about to move into a new studio, like a lot larger lease, and it's like, I'm worried, but at the end of the day, I'm like, he put this on my heart. Just like, remember every other time that he saved what you were doing?

Like, yes.

So, yeah. Do you have a question?

No, I, I just think it's cool, and I'm, I'm so grateful. Like, this morning I was studying in Ecclesiastes, and I've been like going super slow because Sometimes I just like go through the motions. I'm like, need to get the devo, I got a newborn, like all the things. But this morning I like was studying for a couple hours and yeah, I loved like one of the last things I read in chapter 3 or 4 was talking about just the importance of two and just like balancing each other out. And then like God gave us these people for a reason, whether it's your friends or your spouse or whatever. And we talk about in business owning all the time, like sometimes in the moment, like you were talking about with financial provision and all that It's like y'all are running the business, y'all are seeing all the numbers, y'all are— it doesn't make sense. And sometimes I'm grateful for the lack of knowledge so I can be just the one that's like, hey, like, totally, it's just, it's kind of cool to be that role. So like you and your spouse, I'm like over here all airheaded, like, it's fine, like, I have no idea what like really is going on. And but I'm like, just the aspect of like faith and trust and relying on your spouse, so How has that been for you guys, just balancing like your business and faith and like relying on each other? Like, what has that been like?

Yeah, yeah. You know, so I worked in the hospitality industry for like 12 years, and the thing that it taught me the most is how to be cool under pressure. And I think that has really led into my life today with my wife and not necessarily like always being like Hey, we're about to lose everything tomorrow if God doesn't come through. Like, she would have no idea sometimes, and I'll tell her later on and she'll be like, she'll be like, but you like played it so cool, it didn't even seem like it was a big deal. It's like, yeah, because I also have like a lot of faith that God is going to pull through, and I learned how to be like even keel and, and cool-headed in moments where it feels like everything might be falling apart. But not allowing that to negatively impact my home life, but realizing that, hey, God called me to this. And if I'm like, if I'm going to be able to continue doing it, amazing. But if I lose everything tomorrow, then I know he's still good and he's going to provide something else for me to do tomorrow.

That's good right there. She's just like, for somebody on this stuff. Mm, so good.

So to wrap this thing up, thank you for joining the podcast today, by the way. Yeah. Um, it's been awesome to get to know you, to get to talk to you. Um, if there was one piece of advice that you had for somebody who is currently trying to build either like a brand, a business, uh, write a book, doing something that requires some risk, what would be that one piece of advice that you would share with them?

Do one small thing every single day, uh, whether it's like— it seems like a big thing or not. And the consistency of doing something small every single day is going to pay off so much greater later on. Instead of you spending like an hour on a Tuesday working on something, if you spend 20 minutes every day of the week, you're gonna be— it's gonna like compound so much more because it's always just going to be at forefront of your mind. And I think that's been like a massive thing for me. And then realizing that like success does not come as fast as we want it to, especially like in like today's day. It may seem like people just release something and all of a sudden they blow up, but I mean, I wrote my first book in 2010 and I didn't see any success with it until like 2019, probably. And so it's like things take time. And so if you can be consistent for really long periods of time and do it with a smile on your face, you're gonna outwork everybody around you, and you're going to actually be the one that sees the success when most people just skip from one thing to the next every 6 months.

So good, man. That's good.

Great.

That's good.

Well, do you have any other questions? No, I mean, I could ask a million questions. We've been so stoked about this. When, when we were reading the book, we were like, man, this guy's so cool, like, I wonder what he looks like. We looked you up, and then Darren was like, I'm gonna reach out to him about being on the podcast. And I was like, yeah, seriously? And he was like, yeah. And then you answered.

Come on, of course.

I love you answering. So a lot of people don't realize the power of you personally answering, like these DMs. Yeah, like, yeah, whether it's like comments, even if it's through ManyChat, like, it, it just still feels personal. And so respect to you. A lot of people who start getting a certain threshold of followers, they just hand it off. They're like, hey, I don't want to mess with this.

But it's like, that alone is the weirdest thing ever for me because literally nothing changes in your life. Like, if I had 5,000 followers, I would be the exact same person as I am now. And so like, yeah, I might like, I get a lot of DMs every day and I respond to every single one of them because it's like, unless you're like super full of yourself, it makes absolutely no sense to me because nothing changes in your life. Like as a like content creator or like somebody that does content and like nothing changes in your life. Like if you're out speaking, doing things like that. That might be different, but if you're just making content, not much changes.

Same. So yeah, that is so real because I, I have only started to see some like traction on my views on my personal Instagram within the last year because that's— I've really in the last year and a half started posting like actual consistent content. And so I think I had my first video that hit 250,000 views.

It's huge.

And I was like, whoa, for a second.

Yeah.

And then it's like, oh, okay, I gotta go. Yeah, I gotta go to lunch.

Or like, you still gotta change a diaper.

I gotta go mow the lawn.

Like, yeah.

And so anyways, I just know a lot of people do like hand that off. And so, uh, Gary Vee, he also talks about this. He has like millions of followers, right? Yeah, and he answers every single DM. I'm like, totally, I don't know how you do that, but full respect.

Yeah.

And so yeah, if you're listening to this, don't ever be too full of yourself or stuck up to answer the DMs yourself.

Amen, amen, agreed.

But anyways, well, I guess we'll wrap it up right there. Um, where can people find you and connect with you?

Yeah, on Instagram, TikTok, uh, books are available everywhere books are sold, Amazon, wherever. Zachwindall.com, all over. All the things. You guys are awesome. Thank you so much for having me on. This has been like fantastic. What a great combo. I love talking about like the business side of things, and I don't get too often, um, but like it, it is so fascinating to me, like what makes people tick and like data behind things. And so I love it. I'm stoked on it. I actually wrote a book called Launch with God years ago that was all about like the business of this stuff because It's fascinating to me. So thank you guys for having me.

We're gonna have to go buy a couple more books and devos and all the things that you have because this has rocked our world.

Let's go!

So yeah, thank you. And we've shared this with so many of our friends because, like, you were talking about your, um— I have the baby, but you were talking about your, um, audience, like who you were writing the book for.

Yeah.

And there's So many people, Zach, in our world that need this, that need it simplified. I told Darren, I'm not comparing you to this book by any means, but you know the book where it's like Algebra for Dummies? Yeah, like, for sure, I could use that for every book of the Bible.

Like, totally, 100%.

I need— yes, Matthew for Dummies.

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, yes, there's your next series.

All right, man, well, thanks for coming on, and we'll see you guys in the next episode of the Brand Builders Podcast.

Peace.