Stop Saying Yes to Everyone (Find Your Bread & Butter Client) Ft. Kendra Duke

My specialty is the bride walks in with her dress on wedding day and that's all she does. Noah answers the phone and starts crying and there's a person on the other end and they're like, "I'm giving you $10,000." The exact amount we had just said. I wanna say we did 13, 14, maybe 15 weddings back to back. The event and wedding industry is not what it used to be. Mm-hmm. And so one of the things is that the industry in general, sadly, is not set up for the bride or the event, the person who's throwing the event, to succeed. If you don't have a coordinator, someone is going to end up being your coordinator. Yeah.

Please don't make it your maid of honor either.

I haven't seen a wedding for less than $30,000-$35,000 in a long time.

All right. Welcome back to the Brand Builders Podcast. My name is Darren, the host. Today we have Katie Grace, a co-host, on the mic with me and Kendra Duke Designs. How's it going, Kendra?

Hey, it's going great.

So I know you're involved in a lot of different things, so kind of tell us what it is exactly that you do.

Yeah. Okay, Kendra Duke Design is a wedding and event company, so wedding planning, wedding design, decor. Um, I kind of feel like my niche here in Abilene has become weddings, although I do other things. I posted today about like a Christmas party we did, and so we do all kinds of things, but mainly What it has become is really focusing on weddings, and my specialty is— the verbiage I always use is the bride walks in with her dress on wedding day, and that's all she does. So in a perfect world, that's what happens. Yeah. Um, so my husband Noah Duke is a contractor, so builds, remodels, that kind of thing. And we got married over 10 years ago, and his dream was to always live downtown. In my mind, that was not downtown Abilene.

Where y'all are now?

Yeah. You're like, that's not— well, and I just thought like downtown. I was like, no telling where we'll be, you know, like, this is awesome, Dallas or Fort Worth or Austin or whatever. Um, and then when we were, I mean, when we were po', when we were first married, our like date night thing that we would do is we would walk around downtown. And at the time, over 10 years ago, you know, half the buildings are empty. And we would just literally look in the windows is all we did and dream about what a space could be.

That's so cool.

Yeah. And so—

So y'all both were like visionary like that? Yeah, we are.

Yeah, we are. I would say so. Yeah. And one day Noah called me and maybe we had been married for like 2, 3 years and was like, hey, I found a building downtown that we have never seen. And I was like, I grew up here. I don't— whatever, you know? I was like, no, for sure. Like at the time, Soda District had just kind of started being revitalized and he was like, it's in the Soda District. And I was like, okay, well, maybe that's possible. And he was like, and there's trees. I was like, what? There's trees? And he was like, yes, there's like 6 or 7 trees at this downtown building. I was like, okay. Again, in my mind, when we're saying we're going to live downtown, it's another somewhere else. So I was like, okay. So we go by and look at it. And I was like, you're right. I've never seen this building before. Like, I wonder who owns it. I can't remember how we found out who owns it. Maybe, I don't know, maybe we just looked it up, the taxes or something like that. Anyways, we found out that it was— Noah called me one day, he was like, hey, some guy named David Cranfill owns the building. I was like, I know David Cranfill, I used to go to church with him. Um, and so anyways, that was probably like on a Saturday. The next day, uh, we're at church And at the time we went to Beltway, and I walk into the sanctuary, pull the door open, this little kid runs out. And I haven't seen the Cranfields in 10, 15 years. This little kid runs out and I was like, that looks like a Cranfield kid. Mm-hmm. And I just thought to myself, like, wouldn't that be crazy if Noah was sitting beside them? Because he doesn't even know who they are, you know. And the night before he was like, some guy named David Cranfill owns this building. And so I walk in and sure enough, they're sitting right behind us.

Oh, that's so crazy.

And so I get in, into like right beside Noah. I'm like, that's David Cranfill. And he was like, what? I was like, yes, that's David Cranfill. So we talked to him afterwards and anyways, he was like, well, I'll show it to you. But just so you know, like this, artist has already talked to me about buying the building, living upstairs, turning it into her studio downstairs, which would have been super cool. Um, and I was like, but we have better ideas, so sell to us. No, just kidding, just kidding. We had no idea at the time what we were going to do with it. Yeah. And, uh, I was doing— I was working in like the next few weeks, I was working in— or the next week I was working in California. And so we were kind of trying to like maybe get him something on a whim. If this was even what we were supposed to be doing, I have no idea. And, um, so he calls us while we're in California and he's like, hey, just so you know, this lady took an offer and I'm gonna take it. I just, you know, I know you guys, I love y'all, so I just wanted to let you know. And Noah, on a whim, just tells him a number. Didn't even— like, he's looking at me and he's just like, oh no, no, no. He was like, if I can give you an offer on Monday would you just wait? And he was like, sure. And this is like Wednesday, we're in California, we haven't talked to a bank yet.

Luckily, yeah, yeah.

And he's just like confidently like, if I give you an offer on Monday, I'm like, how are we going to give him an offer on Monday? We haven't even talked to a bank. So anyway, Monday rolls around, obviously we're in another state on Wednesday, like there's no way we could get him an offer in anyway. So he calls him on Monday, he's like, hey, I will get you something on Wednesday, we just started talking about it. He was like, yeah, Wednesday's fine. So Tuesday night we were talking about it and we're newlyweds, the loan we could get versus what we think maybe this other lady was offering, we just didn't know. And Noah was like, I mean, obviously we felt like the Lord told us to buy this building. But we were also like this logical side of our brain of like, but also like we're also called to be financially wise and like not go into a lot of debt. And so what does that look like? And so we were like, in order for us to feel better about it, we really need another 10 grand cash. And so we just kind of had thought like, and that's that, you know, money's money. Like, and if it's there, it's there. And if it's not, it's not. And so I go into the kitchen, Noah gets a phone call, and I knew someone on the other line had given us money. I just knew it. Like, I just felt it in my spirit that that was what happened. And Noah answers the phone and starts crying, and there's a person on the other end, and they're like, I'm giving you $10,000, the exact amount we had just said. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Won't he do it? Yeah, yeah.

So that's how we ended up buying the property downtown. Wow. And we have renovated it now. And it is outstanding. Yes, we've renovated it now and there's Airbnbs upstairs, event space slash living space downstairs, and then that's where we run our businesses off out of. So office space slash storage slash event slash housing.

So are y'all living upstairs or downstairs?

We live downstairs.

Okay, that's what I thought. We went to an event and I was like trying to picture, I was like, this is like where her kids play is like where we're playing music right now. And then just like watching, it was so cool. I love that.

Yeah.

So y'all are so creative, and how cool God gave you all that vision and it was like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Okay, so you, so you have the house, you have the things, you have the business. How have you gone about marketing your business and promoting your business? Like, what does that look like for you?

Yeah, absolutely. So Obviously social media, doing a lot of social media aspects of it. And then as far as Airbnb goes, like, it's on Airbnb and Airbnb handles a lot of that, which I highly recommend. I know that, like, boutique stays are super popular right now, and a lot of times boutique stays, although they are listed on Airbnb, are also kind of their own entity. Like, you can book off-site, and, um, that's kind of how we have marketed things as a boutique stay, uh, but we haven't dove into complete, like, off of Airbnb. So currently we just do Airbnb, um, we love it. They handle a lot of stuff for us. Could you make more money off doing it off Airbnb? Maybe. Um, but the way we have it set up right now, and you know, like, um, Dallas, Austin, they're seeing a lot of city legislation kind of coming up against them for different zonings and different things like that. And so like, you can't put a tent in your alley.

Yeah, and list it for $200. Well, I swear we stayed in a place, it wasn't a tent, but I was like, we're literally in an alley, like Yeah, we're going to die tonight. But we paid like $300.

Some of it could be a safety thing, but honestly, it's not. It's about money.

Yes.

And the hotels don't like Airbnbs. Yeah. You know, and so—

Well, Abilene needs it all now.

Yes. Yeah. Well, and for a long time, like Lubbock is oversaturated with Airbnbs. Abilene was a little bit becoming that way. And so with anything, right, you have to find your niche and find What are you selling? You know, and are you selling what a million other people are? And if so, is your thing better?

Yeah, is it set apart?

You know, is it set apart? And so it's like, well, we could have a 3-bedroom, 2-bath and it could be the bombest in town, but if there's a million others, it doesn't really matter. And so what we do is we do like smaller stays. So that's kind of our niche is 1-bedroom, 2-bedrooms. Because in Abilene, if you are booking an Airbnb and you're looking, like, 3/2s are what everyone is doing. And so— and we knew that before we even started, like, we need to find a niche. What are we going to be good at? And so that's kind of what we decided was the smaller stays. And so that's what we do. And, and I feel like the same with events or weddings or construction, of like figuring out what you are doing and then doing it well.

Yeah.

So like, I mean, like, do you have the grit to get it done? Yes. But also, and are you working hard enough? Yes. But if you can do that, because a lot of people aren't even willing to do it, they're not even willing to work at it, you know. It's like if I added up the number of sleepless nights where I just didn't go to bed, you know, and, and are other people willing to do that? And what I found is like, I don't— they're not, you know. But not only are you willing to hustle and get it done, but if you can pair that with a level of excellence, yes, you're unstoppable.

Yep, absolutely. And everything that you've touched, like, we've only been here for like 7 years, but I saw your stuff pretty immediately because, you know, college-age friends start meeting people and they start getting married and you just see like, oh, like Kendra's my wedding planner. Oh, Kendra's my wedding planner. And it's like you do your events and everything with such a level of excellence that when we're talking about like content creating and marketing, I feel like it's so— and I don't want to, I don't want to say it's easy for you, but when you've put in all the work on the back end, like marketing is, it just Does it? Yeah, because like people come and they're like, oh my gosh, who did this?

Well, and you had asked about the marketing piece and getting your name out there. And in Abilene anyways, and obviously every market is so different, but in Abilene it is still word of mouth. It's word of mouth for Noah, it's word of mouth for me. Even, even Airbnbs, well, people message us through Airbnb and say my friend told me, and that's how they got it. Like, yeah, our like If you were to Google like wedding planner Abilene, Texas, it's not like my name doesn't pop up. Or if you're like searching one bedroom, two bedroom on Airbnb, ours are popping up. Like we're still doing all the things. But even so, because our market in Abilene is unique, you still have to do the word of mouth thing along with the other things. And you know, like we do weddings in Austin, DFW, Lubbock, Odessa. Wow. And a lot of times, like if I'm getting an inquiry from Austin, they're like, "I saw you on social media," or "I saw you because you were tagged in something from my venue," or whatever. So like there's still, I'm still getting a lot of people that are coming through my funnel through traditional, not traditional marketing, but yeah, yeah, yeah. But in Abilene, a lot of it is word of mouth. I would say maybe I would should say in West Texas.

So how many events have you had going on at one time? What is the most that you've been able to handle that's all going on at the same time?

Too many. I think I did a couple years ago, I want to say we did 13, 14, maybe 15 weddings back back, just boom boom boom.

So like back to back to back, weekend after weekend after weekend.

And I have learned a lot. So obviously when I'm first starting out, saying yes is just a big part of it, and absolutely throw yourself in. Like, um, your naivety takes you a long way, but eventually you're not naive anymore, you know. And so, um, but Now, so I've been doing wedding planning for like 8, 9 years. And so now, 3 weddings a month is what I can do. I won't do any more than that. But then even then, if I can pick and choose, like sometimes that's like 3 small weddings, you know, maybe that's 1 big wedding, 2 small weddings. But in a perfect world, if I can pick and choose, which I'm getting to that point where I can, which is amazing. [FOREIGN LANGUAGE] It would be 2 big weddings a month. That's kinda like— Sweet spot. Yeah, sweet spot.

Okay, so just like for the viewers and people, there's a lot of people like me that are like, oh my gosh, I wanna do this event or I wanna do this and I think I can do it all on my own. What are the benefits of hiring a Kendra?

Yeah.

For the people that think that we have a Pinterest board and we're like, we can do that. But really working with you, like what are the benefits with that?

Yeah. Okay, so one of the things I'll say is that the event and wedding industry is not what it used to be. Mm-hmm. And so one of the things is that the industry in general, sadly, is not set up for the bride or the event, the person who's throwing the event to succeed. And that's just a sad reality. And some of that is, some of that is money. Some of that is just what things have morphed into. Like, I mean, you know, you're about to have a 1-year-old and probably your 1-year-old birthday party looked a little bit different than what your 1-year-old birthday party is going to be, you know, right? Yeah. And so, um, some of that is just like what it's morphed into. And in order for the vendors in the event world to meet expectations and to rise up to these like, hey, here's my Pinterest board. Like, our moms didn't have a Pinterest board. Yeah, you know, like, here's my Pinterest board, this is what I want to do. And in order to execute that with a little bit of creativity too, so you're not just copying what everyone else is doing, there's a price tag that comes along with that. There is a time amount that it just takes this much time to actually do what the client is wanting you to do. Yeah, um, but for example, on wedding day, to answer your question, let's say your venue lets you in at 9 AM until midnight. That's pretty normal. And maybe you can come in like at 8 or something for hair and makeup. Let's say 8 to midnight. Um, and some venues are way less, but a lot of venues, 8 to midnight is your standard time frame. And you're like, I have until midnight, I have all day, I can get this done. Yeah, you know. And by the time you get there, and maybe you're running a little late because you always are, it's wedding day, so maybe you get there at like 8:30. And leading up to your wedding day, you're still thinking, oh, I have all day, and then you get like, you have 8 hours of photography, and you choose your ceremony start time, and you choose what time you want to exit, and you choose how much time you need at the end of the day to actually clean up. So maybe you're exiting at 10:30 so that you can actually start cleaning up at 11, and then you have a full hour to clean up. And then, so if you're exiting at 10:30, maybe that means your ceremony's starting at 4:30 or 5. And then if your ceremony is starting at 4:30 or 5, then that means photography is starting at 12:30 or 1. And you're like, okay, let's say photography starts at 1, I need to be dressed and photo ready by 12:30. I need to get my hair done, which takes an hour, so that's 11:30. I need to get my makeup done, which takes an hour, so that's 10:30. And you're getting in at 8:30 AM, so you have 2 hours to set up and decorate an entire wedding. Yeah, it's impossible. Yeah, I couldn't do that with a team of people and a trailer. Yeah, I couldn't do that. Yeah, it's not enough. And so some of it is the industry is not set up to make the bride succeed, sadly. And some of it is what the bride wants to do cannot be done in 2 hours, right? You know, and so it's, it's a both. Like, weddings are luxury, no matter what, no matter what scale your wedding is at. Um, back in the day, it was a nice wedding. You got married in a church and you walked down the aisle and you took some photos at the end, and everyone went to the reception hall and had cake, and there were tablecloths and punch, punch, and that was nice, and that was nice, and that was standard. If you had dinner, if you had a reception downtown, you were wealthy.

Wow.

Wealthy, wealthy. And that is just the standard baseline level that everyone is doing now. Yeah. And so at least, yeah. And so you have to understand that weddings in general in today's world are luxury.

Yeah, they look like People magazine.

Yes.

Question: do you think social media has done that.

Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure.

You're like, oh, I see them do that, I want that.

And some of it is amazing because it's like we've given the opportunity for anyone, if they want to, to have a wedding the way they want to have it, which is amazing because it's like before you didn't have the tools, or there wasn't like a million DIY videos on YouTube, and so you were just kind stuck with like, well, I don't know how to do this, so I'm just not going to. But now you have all the tools and everything so that anybody can do anything they want to do. But it also comes along with now everyone wants to do all of the things. And it's pretty rare that when I'm walking into a wedding day that most of your vendors are not professional vendors. And professional vendors come with a professional price tag. Yeah. And so every vendor is a couple grand plus, yeah, you know, starting out at 2 going up. And you have a venue and you have cake, photographer, videographer, florist, photo booth, marquee lights, coffee cart, cake, catering, alcohol. I hadn't even mentioned DJ. And everything is multiple grand and up. And, and like, and that's affordable, you know. Like, if you can get a if you can get these vendors for a couple grand, that's pretty good. Yeah.

But you actually, in our area, you leave Abilene and it's like, I went to a wedding show when we were like planning because my mom and I and my mom's best friend like planned my wedding. And we went to a vendor show at a big barn in Weatherford.

Yeah.

And the first booth I walked up to, she was like, oh, I'm a photographer. She was like, my wedding packages start at $10 grand. And I was like, that's like my wedding budget. And that's like, that was a lot for us. And so we were like, that's like my whole everything. And then we go to the florist and they were like, oh, our packages start at 5. And we were like, yeah. And that's like everybody gets a bouquet.

Yes, right. Well, and a lot of vendors in DFW, Austin, even Midland, Odessa, Lubbock, it's like they have a baseline starting point. And a lot of times they won't even work with you if you can't meet that. There's some good things about that and some bad things about that. You know, I would love to be able to work with every single bride that comes my way, but when you have the backend costs and you're like, in order for me to do several weddings a weekend, for example, a lot of florists do that, I have to have a team. I have to team up with multiple people. And I have to be the designer and I have to be the one that does all of them and then they're bringing it out, they're doing the installations, and it just comes with a price. And so there's definitely a reason why people, people do that for sure.

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Weddings. I keep saying weddings are luxury, but if you are doing a wedding and all of your vendors are professional and you're having a 200+ guest count and you're serving everyone dinner and you're having an open bar, all those things I just mentioned are standard. Like most people are doing all of those things. Yeah. And if you're wanting all of those things, and then on top of that, you're wanting a few bells and whistles, easily you can spend $75,000, easily. You don't have to do that. But people are just not willing to not do that. They want to serve everyone dinner. They want to have the open bar. And they want to have it at a really nice venue. And then you start adding things on and then you get yourself in a pickle and you're like, well, I can't actually do this wedding I wanna do, I have to rent the venue the day before too. And now your wedding, now your venue, which was already $8 grand or whatever, and renting it the day before, like maybe they give you a little bit of a deal, but they could book a wedding the day before. Yeah, they could make another $8 grand. So it's not much more of a deal. And now your venue cost just doubled because you need the wedding, you need the venue to do the day before in order to create the wedding that you have now wanted to create. And so it is crazy how fast fast, wedding costs will add up. But you don't have to do that. Um, in Abilene, I haven't seen a wedding for less than $30,000-$35,000 in a long time. Wow.

Hey, we did good.

That's not $75,000, you know. And I also think, I also think like sometimes people will say, okay, my wedding was X amount of dollars, and I know who did their wedding and I know where it was, and I'm just adding up the cost. Oh no way. I'm like, that's not true. But sometimes it's like, you know, grandma pays for something and someone else covers this, which is amazing, I love that. And then like the last month of your wedding, your bank account drains because of all these little things that you have to get.

Oh, I gotta go buy these table frames for this.

And it's $100 here, $200 here, $400 here. And then your aunts and uncles are covering a few things here and there. But if you were to truly add all of that into your wedding budget, which people don't do. But if you were, that number is a lot more than 30, 35. Yeah. You know, that's so—

that's crazy. Well, okay, on this podcast a lot we talk about highs and lows in business and try to bring awareness to that because we feel like most people just live in this world of like, oh, we're always doing like really great as business and there's like no slow seasons and we're just like killing it. Why aren't you? And so Darren and I are like, Hi, like there's actually businesses where we like have a hard time and we're trying to start and push through all the things. So what do you feel like, you know, have you had any of those seasons? Has it been slow with weddings? Like COVID, like what in the world? How did you kind of navigate all that?

Yeah, I mean, absolutely. Um, I feel like, uh, sometimes business owners It's not like we're trying to be dishonest, but a lot of it is like just the assumption of like, well, duh, you know. But when you're starting out and you don't know these things and no one really talks about those things, it's interesting. But like, you know, getting through the hard times and working really hard and having the grit, having the tenacity to actually stick through it and do just whatever it takes to make it happen. Just most people at that level are not willing to do that.

Yep, we talk about that all the time.

Yeah, they're not willing to do that. But the business owners that are, we never talk about it because it's just like, well, didn't everybody do that? Yeah, it's part of the job. And other people get into it and they're like, wait a second, what? Yeah, you know, and you're like, dude, this is like, this is normal stuff. And I actually, like, growing up, my parents were business owners, and I had always said, like, I'm not going to do that because I saw how hard it was. Yeah, you know, like, my parents had rental properties, and we would— they would have to make a make ready, and they'd have to repaint and whatever else, and 3 kids sleeping on the ground in this rental property that night so that they could finish. Yeah, like normal. Yeah, you know, like totally, totally normal. Um, and so, but, but those are hard times, you know. It's like, that's, that's tough. Like, I didn't go to bed last night and I have to work today, you know. It's not like I'm gonna call in sick.

Like, I'm kind of like running this show.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Me and Katie were talking about that earlier today. Like, if I broke both of my legs and I couldn't work anymore, we would be screwed.

Yeah, I'll be calling Gary.

And that's a great point. Like, we haven't even mentioned the risk.

Yes. Yeah, for sure.

And what that does to you, even just physically. But, you know, like, um, risk, fear, anxiety, like All part of it, all normal. And so I feel like that's one of the reasons why business owners don't just talk about it, because it's just like, well, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, there have been times where I've been like super stressed. For us, our slow time is November, December every year. Now that I figured that out, yeah, I can prepare in advance. The first year this happened, I was not prepared. And so I was like, okay, payroll is coming out in 3 days, but I have to pay out $3,000 to my employees. But I don't have $3,000 to pay them. Just figuring out those types of things are stressful, but it's just a part of it.

And other people are probably hearing that being like, oh my gosh. Yeah, but like all other, ever other business owners were like, yeah, yeah, we've been there. I've been there. Yeah, I've been there multiple times, you know. And so our slow season for events is January, February, and then July and August. And so used to, again, I would even fill in those months with other things, and I still do. Like, I do some design work on the side. I know we were talking about earlier, we're like, what does on the side even mean anymore? We don't know.

We're just all the sides.

We're all the sides. Yeah. Um, but we do some design work, like, um, somebody needs interior design. Yeah, interior design. Or I need help with X, Y, or Z, do you do something like that? Um, and when I have someone that wants me to do that, I will schedule that in, in January, February, or July and August. And so it kind of has some fill-in. But honestly, even now where I am today, of like, I'm okay with letting that be a slow season and just taking that time off, even though I'm still meeting with clients. Good. I just don't have an event that weekend.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? So yeah, but that's a great question. And like, you know, there is like, there for sure is hard times and how do you push through on that and keep going? I think it's like if your business can get past like the 5-year range, then it's not smooth sailing from there. Pushing through. You learn a lot.

Not as hard as year one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure.

So at this point in your career, you mentioned you kind of have the option to work with who you want, and I feel like that's a spot every business owner wants to be in. What would you say to the person who is trying to get there?

You have to say yes to a lot of people before you can get to that point, and I think that's just part of it, you know. Um, I think you have to know once you have reached that point and probably not try to reach it too quickly. Um, but also like being honest with yourself about your capacity and able to still do a job with excellence. Um, and so I don't know, keep— I don't know what my advice is. I guess just keep, keep going, keep pushing through, and then trying to figure out like who, who you're like kind of bread and butter client is. And, but, and I, I think everyone kind of struggles with trying to figure out who that is, and it's like you're saying yes or trying to do something because you're helping someone out and then knowing in the back of your head like, am I gonna regret taking this event? Like, I know better. This is even like, this isn't my bread and butter client. This isn't what I do necessarily, but you're trying to help somebody out and do it anyways. And they're still paying you, but you're like, this isn't actually my niche thing. This isn't what I do really well. I'm gonna try to do it to help you out, or can you come and just do this part of the day? Or can you come and just decorate this or whatever? And it always, or, this is my budget, can you work with it? And then you're like, okay, this is what I can do for your budget, and they really need more. Are you going to offer it if you know they need more? Yeah, you know, I'm, I'm the professional, they're not the professional. You know, I know based off of what you're telling me, you need X, Y, and Z in order for it to go well. Yeah. And if I can't give them that Am I just gonna do it halfway?

They have an expectation and you can't meet that person.

And how do I, it's not right for me to offer a service if I only know it can, I can only do it halfway. Yeah. You know, it's like, it's actually not beneficial. A lot of people ask me if I do day of planning and I don't. No one should, no one should do day of planning.

Yeah, what does that mean?

Essentially a planner shows up on day of, the bride gives them everything to do, not necessarily setting up and decorating, but like, hey, here's our plan, you just execute it so I don't have to. But you have no idea. That's a great theory, but most people— not everyone, but most people who are getting married have never been married before. So you expecting them to create a perfect event and hand it off to you? Bomb is going to explode in your hands. It is.

Yeah.

And you having a different expectation, it's not even the bride's fault. You having the expectation that the bomb's not going to explode in your hands, that's actually the problem. And so I— the smallest package I do is month of coordinating, because me walking in to allow a bomb to explode in my hands doesn't help anyone. No, it makes it worse. They didn't know that. Then it's not fun for you. The bride hasn't thought through the fact that she does not want a first look. Ceremony time starts at 6. Sunset is at 7.

Like, uh, ceremony, uh, they're gonna have no pictures.

Yeah, the sun's gonna be gone down and they haven't taken a single photo of the bride and groom.

And then they're like, oh crap, and everything on the day of, they gotta rearrange everything.

We've done— so Darren and I, we learned very quickly that weddings, um, like, I think this is important too, realizing your giftings and being like, it's okay if I'm not doing what everybody else is doing. So I think when people think photo, video, they're like, oh, you're like a family photographer, wedding photographer. Like, they stress us out. Like, we've tried and we're like, heck yeah, like family or like a close friend. And, um, and it's like, you didn't sign up for that.

Yeah, you didn't sign up for that. And they didn't even mean for you to sign up for what it ends up being. But weddings are weddings are weddings. And people are like, oh, I'm chill, oh, I'm simple.

And I'm like, until they get their files and they're like, oh, you did care about.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, I think that price point, at least from a vendor's perspective— say we're going to film a wedding, do photos and videos— the big mistake that we have made is we don't charge enough. When you're first starting, obviously you have to do those things in order to get where you want to be. We show up the day of for these lower-priced weddings, and we end up having to be the coordinator, we end up having to be the DJ, all the above. Whenever they— we're just there to do the video.

I told Darren, I was like, I left that night and I was like, I feel like I could puke, fall over, and I never want to go to another wedding in my life. And it was like, we showed up and the ceremony's being like 45 minutes, and it was like they needed Kendra. They needed Kendra so bad.

But I feel like that's also why a lot of vendors raise their prices too.

Absolutely, yeah. And there's nothing wrong, there's nothing wrong with brides having certain priorities and spending their money in those areas. Yeah, that's absolutely fine. Everyone should do that. And if your priority isn't coordinating or having a smooth day and you want to spend it on flowers or the DJ, or you want the best catering price— yeah, coffee, open bar— that is totally okay. But you have to know that like if you don't have a coordinator, someone is going to end up being your coordinator.

Yeah. Please don't make it your maid of honor either.

And usually that is the mom, the sister, the best friend.

Yeah.

Somebody.

Absolutely. Isn't a wedding planner or a coordinator. And price point is huge because, you know, obviously you get what you pay for, but also, well, my brain just went blank. Went somewhere else. I don't know.

It's okay, I squirrel all the time.

Yeah, I don't know what I was gonna say. Maybe I'll come back to that later.

A whole pack of squirrels in there.

Yeah, because that's kind of what we do for pricing now because we don't do weddings really anymore. I don't promote it, but sometimes people will ask and I'll just put out something crazy.

I know, we make it so outrageous that it's like, please don't book us. We just don't need to promote that we do that. Like, it's—

I don't promote it, but sometimes people will ask.

Yes.

Yeah, and I'll just put out something crazy.

Well, but also, like, I think this is what I was going to say. The price point is huge because, like, I'll have somebody— and even, like, people reach out to me all the time, I want to work for you, I want to do this, blah blah blah. And I'm like, okay, here's a wedding, here are the times I need you, come in. And they never work a wedding with me again. And It's because weddings are crazy. They're insane, even when everything is planned down to a T. Yeah. And you're not gonna sign up willingly the next weekend to do that again. Again. Yeah, it's a lot, you know. What, it's like, yeah, that was insane and I'm gonna wake up tomorrow and do the same thing again? Like, no way, no way. And so one problem that a lot of wedding vendors have, or event vendors, you know, events just in general are insane too, is that they're not priced correctly. And so they're like, it's not like a, it's not like there's a recipe and you know your ingredients and how much your ingredients cost and then you're charging your labor for it. I mean, essentially that is what you're doing, but there's so many other things that you cannot control. Like, I don't know how many times I've been yelled at by a drunk person, but that does— I mean, that has a price tag. Yeah, and it's high. I'm not going to sign up the next day to get yelled at again by a drunk person. And that drunk person, that might have been the only time they got drunk all year. That might have been the only time they yelled at someone all year. But you know what? I'm doing that again next weekend, and somebody has another— I've never been drunk before and I'm yelling again. In and it's gonna be at me, you know? And I'm like, who's gonna sign up for that willingly? Yeah, every single weekend there's a price tag that comes on it, and that has nothing to do with the bride, that has nothing to do with the groom. Hopefully they don't even know that that happened. Yeah, you know what I mean?

Whenever you first started, did you do much for free? How has your pricing structure grown throughout the years?

Yeah. Free, no.

Good.

I didn't. So I do think the event world is different because it's not like I'm gonna give you an hour of my time. If that was the case, absolutely.

No, it's like 10 PM, you're thinking of this idea.

It's like if I were to add this up, I would be giving away $5,000 and would you give like, and maybe you're gonna do it for a friend for free. But would that friend ever give you a gift for $5,000 on your wedding? No. And so some of that is like, well, you know, services and pricing and whatever, but even like $1,000, you know? And so it's hard to give away something for free when it's at such a high price, but for sure discounted, for sure. But I mean, I don't know if I've ever done a wedding by myself. So I'm paying for other people to help come in, set up, decorate with me, help me get from point A to point B. There's 4 different locations. The groomsmen are getting married at one Airbnb, the bridesmaids are at another, the ceremony's one place, the reception's one place, cocktail hour is at another. And I need a person to be at those places when vendors arrive. Yeah. To help them get set up. I need a person at the ceremony location making sure the bride and groom are walking down the aisle. I need somebody at the reception location when guests are arriving And so it's hard to do that for free because so much is coming out of your pocket. I've broken even a lot. I've been in the hole a lot, for sure. But it is a different— it's a different game.

That's awesome.

So did you just like— okay, how did you get started with all of this? Like you said you were working a job and you were like in California. Were you doing like design work, event planning, or like—

No. So I, um, So we got married, and then after we got married, people that were at our wedding, or a friend like, I went to this wedding and my— I went to your wedding and my cousin's getting married, and she saw photos, or somebody saw photos from online, somebody shared something, and they're like, hey, my cousin went to your wedding, or I was at your wedding and my sister's getting married, and blah blah blah blah blah. 'Can you come help me X, Y, or Z?' Or, 'Can we rent this from you?' So the way you plan and executed your wedding, people were like— and a lot of it, like, we for sure like broke even on a lot. But like, let's say like someone was renting something from me and I needed to like go and take it to them and they were getting married in Lubbock, like just charging them for my time and taking the items there and back or something like that. So I for sure did stuff like that. And for friends all the time, they're having a baby shower or they're doing this, like, for sure I absolutely do things for free. But it's not— my industry is not something that— I don't know. So I don't know. I don't know if I have. That's a, that's a great question. I don't know. Yeah, yeah. For free, no, but for super, super dirt cheap, yeah, for sure. Of like, I'm losing money off of this deal, for sure.

I think some of the first videos that I ever made were like $50.

Or we walked in amongst them. We're like, can we make a video for you for free? Just for fun? Like, I really want to practice this style. I really want to.

Yeah.

And so we've definitely done that.

So we talked about AI a little bit before we started recording. How do you implement and use AI within your business?

Hmm. Every hour of every day I'm using it for something. Even just like I'm typing out an email to a vendor or to a client or a proposal of something. I'm just plugging that into AI and just bare minimum having them reword it for me.

Yes, I do that too.

You know? Yes. Yeah. And so, and then I'm sending it off.

What's like your number one tool that you use for that?

Oh, I use Gemini.

Gemini?

Yeah, Gemini. Yeah, yeah. What do y'all use?

I use ChatGPT.

No, no, Gemini. Use Jimmy. Jimmy's so much better. Yeah, all my team, all of my team, when something goes wrong, I'm like, that was probably Jimmy. Sorry about that. That probably wasn't even me, honestly. I couldn't tell you.

It's just overworking and underpaid.

He's stretched to the max.

He's like, this is my unpaid employee.

I feel like I abuse ChatGPT sometimes.

Okay, you should try Gemini.

Okay.

I think it's better.

I feel like I've spent so much time talking to ChatGPT.

Okay.

He really has.

Yes. Knows literally everything about me.

Yeah.

I've tried to switch to Grok and Grok is great. It just doesn't know everything about me. So that means I would have to start over.

I love that you call him Jimmy. That's great.

Yeah.

I need to come up with a name.

Well, Chad.

Chad.

Yeah. Yeah. Any kind of error, I'm like reading through it or my team's like, it says this. I'm like, that was Jimmy. I don't know where that came from.

My most recent fail, I'll put like my captions in there and I'm like, hey, like tweak this, make it shorter or whatever.

Yeah.

And the most recent fail I had was on my daughter's 6-month, like Mark or whatever, it changed her middle name. It's May, and it took my spelling as incorrect, and so it changed it M-A-Y. And my mom immediately texted me and was like, you misspelled your daughter's middle name. And I was like, ah, I was like, actually it's chat, but it's fine. Yeah, like over here. I know, I know, I know.

But I use it, I mean, every day, every hour for something, even just bare minimum. I'm about to send an email or a text through and I'm like, I'm just going to run that through.

Have you ever used it for advice?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I have literally like talked to it and I'm like, hey, I have this conversation and I'm trying to like come about it in a way that's like respectful, but I'm really angry.

Yeah.

Like, yeah, it's like a therapist. It's like, yeah, well, that's a great point, but I can— I could see how you—

for sure. Like, how do I— how do I reword this? To get my point across.

Yes, or create urgency, or like without being a total— because sometimes I'm just like a direct person.

Well, and that's like talking about the wedding world or event world, like it is a, it's a, it's a tough industry. Yeah, it really is. And in order to be in the industry, you have to be, you have to be pretty tough. Yeah. And there we are directing all day. Yeah, yeah, I mean this, and there's a lot of like people that get into the wedding world, and they're like, I will not do weddings because everyone is so mean. And it's like the photographers, the videographers, the venue owners, the coordinators, the florists, or whatever. They're like, I'm not touching that, you know, which I, I understand. I understand that point. But on wedding day too, it is like, I mean, you're so crunched for time, you just get in and do your job head down. And like, and all the other vendors are doing the same thing. And when you're used to that and you're used to working together and you're used to like a florist and you are friends and you're like, don't put that there, put that there. And they're directing you too.

It's not all these personal shots.

Yeah, yeah, so someone coming into the industry and seeing that is kind of like, whoa, you didn't even say hello.

Yeah.

And I'm like— Y'all work together. I was like, no, I didn't. Yeah, sorry. We're working, sorry. But to their credit, like to me, you can say everything that you need to say nicely. Yeah, yeah. You don't have to be, you know, a B-word.

Yeah, for sure.

To— in order to communicate, in order for things to happen that you need to happen. And so, I mean, they have a point, but again, you're still needing to communicate harsh things that have a time crunch. And but throwing it into letting Jimmy do that for you, you know, of like, how do I reword this and say this better. And a lot of it is just communicating, like, hey bride, I know your dream idea is to have this ceremony outside, but we're not doing— I'm about to show you this torrential storm that is headed your way.

Yeah, no, these are such real things.

We have to move it now, you know, like you don't have a choice, like this is what's happening, but you have to do that and it still needs to be their choice because it's their wedding and they paid for it.

Yeah, they're paying for you.

And if they want to get it, if you, if it need, if it, if they want to get rained on, they can. But I know every single vendor is going to cry, die. They're literally, and all of their, and all 200 of their guests are going to hate it. And I'm like, as a planner, I'm like, them, I can't let that happen. For sure. You know, and so, but how do I get them for it to be their decision and for them to still make the decision that they need to make, but then ultimately be like, but if you want to get torrential rain and we want to get poured on, it is your decision. Because it is, it's their money. Has it ever happened?

Have a wedding in the rain?

Oh yeah, yeah, for sure. So crazy thing about Abilene is that if you have a wedding of over 200 people, Almost every single venue in town, you are doing something outside. Even if you're flipping ceremony to reception, your guests are gonna have to be outside for that. Or the ceremony's outside, or cocktail hour is outside, or the reception is outside. Something is going to be outside. But in Abilene, typically, it is a, like, it's raining, the ceremony's supposed to be starting, we have someone in the parking lot with umbrellas saying, "Hey, We're actually just going to wait for this storm to pass and then we're going to start. No. And so a lot of times it's— you're like, yeah, a lot of times it's like you're just waiting like maybe 20 minutes for the rain to pass because it rarely rains all day here. And so, but for sure have been rained on, or right after the ceremony it starts pouring down rain. So we lose some of our guests because a lot of things are still outside. That's why it's important to cut down on your guest list. And truly whatever your venue is, maybe, and I'm not saying like don't book a certain venue, just have smaller guest count. So that way no matter what happens, you're ensuring that your day is going to be okay. Like if all of your guests cannot fit inside, if your ceremony and your reception cannot fit inside with your current guest count, you have to cut down your guest count.

I think it's good too, like when you think about it, okay, Personally, if I have 300 people come to my wedding, I'm like, you're either like a really far acquaintance or like, like really, when you think about, okay, if I'm inviting these people, like if it does rain, they love me and we're gonna have fun through it. Like those kind of people. Yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

It helps.

And it is okay of like, hey, if it rains, what's gonna happen? And if the bride looks me dead in the eyes and says We're gonna get wet. Then I'm like, awesome, then we can do this. We're gonna embrace it. But if your thing is like, well, we're gonna have to have a backup plan and we're gonna have to move everything over here, I'm like, then you need to cut down your guest count.

That's a good piece of advice.

And then there is a little bit of a science to it too. So there's a book that Priya Parker wrote called "The Art of Gathering," and she talks about guest count numbers and how it changes your event no matter what. No matter, like your event could be at this like swanky homey place and it could be big enough and it could have X, Y, or Z, all of these things like catering to a super intimate experience. But if you have 300 people there, there is no way for you to have that experience because it's a science. And so it talks about guest count and anything over 150 people, You get into this like, so anything 150 and down, you can have this like more intimate experience. But there's something that happens when you have over 150 people, 200, 250, 300 people, that you go into, in the event world, what we call a conference. So if you want to have a conference and it be your wedding, that is okay. Yeah. Absolutely. We have lots of conferences here. Here in Abilene that are weddings, but there's no way for you to get around that feel. No matter what you do, your grandma could make every single pie and it is still gonna feel like a conference if you have 300 people at your wedding. There's no way to avoid that. And it's just like a science and it's in that book, which is an amazing book. Everybody should read that book. I know, now I'm like, I'm wanting to read it. Yes, it's called "The Art of Gathering." And I don't even post that much.

Sorry.

No, go ahead.

Speaking of books, I know at least for me, entrepreneurs read books and listen to podcasts. Yeah, all day long.

Yeah, yeah.

What are some of your favorite ones that you've listened to or read? Do you listen to podcasts very much?

I do, yes. Yeah.

What are some of the most influential ones that you've listened to?

That is a great question.

I'm not a big reader, so I'm like, just tell me what you're learning.

So I I read a lot. I love like, I think a lot of my stuff isn't, although I do love The Art of Gathering as far as an event book by Priya Parker. That's an amazing book. Other stuff is more just like business entrepreneurship, like even just like Rich Dad Poor Dad. Maybe Rich Dad Poor Dad. That's a great book. I'm trying to think. I love, like, um, I always, I tell my dad all the time that I think I married Dave Ramsey. But I like Dave Ramsey. Like, I like, I like all of his stuff. I listen to all of his stuff. Um, what is his name? John, the guy that does a lot of stuff with John Ram— or Dave Ramsey. John somebody.

His name might not be on the Dave Ramsey Show.

Yeah, he's on the Dave.

Darren would like me to listen to Dave Ramsey.

Yeah.

I mean, honestly, Dave's cool.

He's not the end-all be-all, but maybe he'll be on the pod one day. Yeah, I love it.

Sit here and audit my wife.

But he's a counselor. Yeah. And but he kind of like Dr. Phil.

Dr. Phil for finances.

But he's good. On fire too. And then I love Rich Dad Poor Dad, man. I'm going to like go home today and be like, oh my gosh, this is my favorite book and I didn't even mention it. I read a lot, but I read a lot for pleasure. So like, I read to escape. I'm like, my real world is Rich Dad Poor Dad, you know? Like, that's how I feel. Like, my real world is so like, you know, it's like we're running, running multiple businesses, raising a family. I have two little kids. Um, and so I definitely read to kind of escape.

That's a healthy thing to escape with. Some people don't have healthy—

yeah.

Yeah, that's kind of what I do. I like to read a lot of kind of like what you said, like self-development, just like personal growth stuff and a lot of spiritual growth stuff too, just because it's something different from the day to day. Then there's like a business book that'll come around and completely change my trajectory of my life. So yeah, yeah, I always like to ask those kinds of questions. Hopefully it's the Bramble Brush Podcast if you're listening.

Yeah, absolutely. Yes.

So thanks for being on the podcast today. Yeah, where can people find you online?

Yeah, um, I do a lot of social media and Pinterest. I don't know if you have people coming on here saying Pinterest. No, Pinterest, so important. Pinterest, Pinterest, Pinterest, it's bomb.

I didn't even know you could post like your Reel videos and stuff on there. Yeah, I got to think of like Instagram Reels, but like, yeah, I've been seeing that recently.

It is wild to me because like I'll have brides that don't even follow me on social media and I go to their Pinterest board and it's my weddings. Wow. That they have pinned. That's— and they look at it and they might not even know it. Yeah. But it's like, I pull that up and I'm like, look at, look at who posted that. And they're like, that's you. I'm like, yeah, that's me.

So is it all under Kendra Duke Designs? Yep.

My website, Instagram, Pinterest. That's—

that just happened to me with a friend. She was like, I really want you to paint a Bible for me, and sent me an inspo. And it's my friend that paints Bibles in Comanche. And I was like— so I texted my friend, I was like, you're going to flip. I was like, you are the inspiration. I was like, can you just paint it? So, but it's a, it's a really cool thing I think we don't think about for creatives.

Yeah, so go check Kendra out on all the things— Pinterest, Instagram.

Absolutely.

Um, thanks for coming on the podcast today.

Thanks guys, appreciate you guys in the next one.