This Could Save Business Owners THOUSANDS in 2024... (Tax Strategy)

Thanks for listening to the Howdy Podcast. In this show, we'll be talking to creatives, small business owners, entrepreneurs, and many, many more. My goal with this business is to show to the world the power of the internet, the power of social media, and the power of learning a new skill. Again, thanks for watching and enjoy the show. All right, we are live. Welcome to the Howdy Podcast. Today I have my guest, my aunt, my business— she's a business owner. She's QuickBooks expert, bookkeeper, tax strategist on the podcast today. We're going to be talking about taxes, small business owners, what they need to be doing, how they can most efficiently take care of their tax situation. So glad to have you on, Sheila. How are you doing?

Good. How are you?

Doing good. Good to have you on the show. I kind of sent you some questions and some topics I wanted to cover. So basically, Sheila's helped me in my personal business save money with my taxes. She's helped me organize all my books, make sure they're good and legal, most importantly. But it's been super helpful. She saved me already in the first year of business 2023 was my first year of business and she's already saved me thousands of dollars and we didn't even make that much in 2023. So for the new business owners out there, I kind of wanted to start off and just talk about what are some things if you're, if you're going out to start a business, if you're taking a side hustle, starting to make some money, what are some things that you would encourage those people to do at the very beginning and not to wait?

Well, first of all, you need to be informed to understand what things are deductible, what things aren't, what you count, what you can't count. I've had a lot of people that'll come to me like a year after starting and they've not kept receipts. They have no form of bookkeeping, they intermingle their individual accounts with their business stuff. And then I tell them, you know, now it's a matter of sifting and sorting and figuring out. A lot of people think that whenever you start a business that they can't afford to have somebody help them, but the exact opposite is true. You can't afford not to have that guidance from the very beginning because you will miss out on a lot.

Yeah, so let's say somebody wants to go out and start like a cookie baking business or something, and it's just like a hobby at first. When is the point that they should open up an LLC or open up a DBA or anything of that nature?

Well, to be honest with you, the IRS says if you're making money, you have to show it. So, um, I know a lot of people look at things as a hobby, but to be honest with you, whenever you file your taxes, there is a place for a hobby on a Schedule A, which is the itemized list, and they will allow you to have all your— all of your income included on there. Or you put your income on there, actually, and you can deduct up to the amount that you made, so you zero out. But if someone does not show it and they're not keeping track of it, then to be honest, it's just simply not the right way.

Okay. So even if somebody makes $1,000 the whole year, would they benefit at all by having like an LLC or anything?

No. An LLC is intended to be— it's a limited liability company. It's intended to create a separation between the individual and the business. So if you're in a high-risk business, you know, say you have a place where people come to you to do things and you're at a high risk. So even like a trucking company, a hotel, a restaurant, any of those things, you have a lot of people coming onto your premises or your driving equipment or things like that. If there were to be any kind of accident or something were to happen, The limited liability helps to create a separation between the liability that the owner holds versus the business.

Got it. Okay. So let's go ahead and go into like the differences of the types of businesses like S-corps, just a regular LLC, sole proprietor. I started off as a sole proprietor pretty much all of 2023. And so the tax structure was different. I had to pay more in taxes because there is like the— what is it— self-employment tax and all the like Social Security and everything as well. So yeah, kind of break down like what the differences are, what your options are, that kind of thing.

Okay. So let me just kind of explain the different business structures first of all, because there's nothing wrong with any single one of them. It's really going to be a matter of where you're wanting to take your business and how much income that you're making. So especially if you're, if you're young and you have no Social Security built up, it's always good to have self-employment tax so that you can, because you can't draw Social Security unless you've earned a certain number of points. And so for anyone who has like a sole proprietor, if they make $50,000 and they spend $50,000, they're never going to pay anything into Social Security because you're only going to pay tax on the profit. Now, as a sole proprietor, whatever your profit is, you're going to pay self-employment tax up to, of course, the threshold with Social Security. So I believe for 2023, the threshold was like $100,000 and $62,000, maybe more. I honestly have to look those numbers up, but with a sole proprietor, you will pay self-employment tax on all of your profit, okay, up to that threshold. And then with a partnership, that's where you basically take two sole proprietors and you put them into business together, and so each of them will pay self-employment tax if they are actively involved in the business. It's, it's different if you only have an investor that has no part of any kind of business activity decisions, nothing like that. Then they're, they're considered a limited partner and they will only pay federal. But if you have someone who is a part of the everyday business, helps make decisions, does any part, even if it's behind the scenes, um, and nobody— he never actually interacts with anyone if they have any part of it, they're going to pay self-employment tax as well, up to the threshold based on their percentage of ownership. Okay. So then we have— and most of those are going to be set up as an LLC. And a lot of the misconception about an LLC is that it has to be a partnership, and it doesn't. You can have a single-member LLC that operates exactly the same way as a sole proprietor. Okay, but then you can have a multi-member LLC that is going to default to be a partnership. And one of the things is that whenever I usually tell people, when you're making a profit of anywhere from $50,000 to $60,000, sometimes a little less, just depends on their business and how fast it's growing, I usually then turn around and will recommend, hey, it's, it's time to become an S corporation. But the S corporation, it's a lot more strict. It does require payroll of the owners and it does require that you have books that are taken care of. Very, again, very strict. And you also cannot intermingle funds, which means you cannot take personal funds and business funds and have them always, you know, being coming out of the same bank account. What I usually tell people is when you become an S corporation, If you need money personally, you can take it out as a distribution to a certain degree, put it in your personal account, and then do whatever you want with it. Let me explain what an S corporation is and how to become one. So a single-member LLC, a partnership, those, those can actually become an S corp at any point. If you're a brand new business, it has to be done within the first 45 days of creating the business, or sorry, 75 days. And then if you are already established, then you have to, after January 1st, you have until March 15th of that year to decide if you're going to become an S corp for that current year. Does not mean the IRS will approve it, but more than likely they will. So an S corporation makes it to where you are no longer the owner. Of your company, you become a shareholder. And, um, you can have, um, you, you would put yourself on payroll and you put yourself on what's considered a fair wage. Um, or you put yourself, uh, if, if your business isn't profiting a whole lot and you title yourself as a manager within the business operations and a manager makes a national average of $75,000 a year and your profit's only $50,000, it doesn't make sense to put yourself on a $75,000 salary. So you do it either based on a percentage of your profits, um, and, and there's, there's not anything that's really written that says what that percentage is. I usually kind of default to, you know, at least 50% of what you're profiting, let's put you on payroll. The remaining 50% then is only subject to federal.

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March 15th.

March 15th. So we filed to become an S corp before that date. We were— so it was kind of weird. I set it up way too late. I was a sole proprietor all last year. And then Sheila was like, hey, you should probably set up as an LLC, which I had meant to do before. I just forgot about it. Honestly, I wasn't thinking about it. I was thinking about getting new clients and that kind of thing. So I was a sole proprietor and then I think in December I applied to become an LLC. I was an LLC for like a month and then I was like, Sheila, hey, what do, 'What are we looking for taxes?' And she told me, and I think it totaled up to like, what was it, $12,000 or something. And that was like the smallest year I planned on having. And so I was like, Sheila, how do we not do that again? How do we avoid this? Because I mean, $12,000, $12,000 is a lot of money.

That's a lot.

And, and so she's like, okay. Let's go the S corp route, put yourself as the CEO and pay yourself a percentage. So that's where we're sitting right now and having, so it's me and we have, I guess, 2 other people on payroll right now. And already in our profit and loss reports, it's showing like we've pretty much on the track to double revenue this year, but we're making, I, I want to say we'll probably make around the same profit on paper because we're, we're using that payroll as an expense towards the business anyways. So that's kind of where we're at, and that's one of the many examples. So if you're— so would it be beneficial if you don't have any other people on payroll to be an S corp? Like, if you were the only one, like, what would be a scenario where you'd be the only one in an S corp. And can you even do that?

Yeah. So it's allowed to have one shareholder and to convert to be an S corp. Some, some CPAs, things like that might say, no, you need to have at least two. The IRS does allow one for, for partnership. They don't. But for an S corp, they do. But you have to be really careful.

So the difference in partnership and S corp. So like partnership, you mentioned shareholder. Is it 50 and 50 for a partnership as far as like ownership?

Oh no, it's so a partnership can have a 1% owner and a 99% owner. It's dependent on how it's set up. Partnership just means more than one owner.

Got it.

And that, that they are considered two basic sole proprietors come together to operate one business.

And they're still taxed like a sole proprietor.

Yes. And they get what's called a K-1 at the end of the year when the tax return is filed. And it's going to split their K-1 based on percentage of ownership. So the profits are going to be split. So if it is a 50/50 owner, then 50% goes to one and 50% goes to the other. And there's a lot of— there's some married couples that file as partnerships. There's some crazy things where you don't have to file as a partnership if you're married. Um, but I've had some that, that do. And so if that's the case, then it all goes on to the same return. It's not going to make a difference than if there was just one person. But it does help, um, to build Social Security for each person if it's split that way. Uh, so now an S corporation is different because the profits are put onto a K-1 as well. And it's— and they're both called what's— they're both what's called a pass-through entity. Okay, a pass-through entity means that the business itself does not pay taxes. Um, it files a tax return, but it plugs all the numbers into a K-1. It flows through into the individual returns, plugs in, and the taxes are paid through the individual tax return. So then you're responsible for your percentage of ownership and you are required to put yourself on payroll. And that way you have Social Security and Medicare coming out. The company matches it during the year. So instead of you having to come up with a large amount at the end of the year, you're actually getting to pay it in increments. So it doesn't hurt. It doesn't feel like it hurts as bad. And you can have federal withholding taken out. So whenever you go to file your individual return, your W-2 from your own business is going to plug in. You get credit for any federal you've already paid in, and then the remaining profits that come off of that K-1 from the S corporation are going to plug in, and those you will pay federal tax on and not Social Security and Medicare because you've already paid that through your payroll.

Got it. Okay, so we've talked about sole proprietor, partnership, S corp. And are there any more options?

I mean, there's a lot of different business structures. There's also the option for a C corporation. A C corporation is a completely separate entity. It has, it has shareholders, but they're not seen in the same light as an S corp. It will pay its own taxes and it will pay out dividends. The owners don't have access, easy access to the money. It's, it's a lot more strict. You're going to see mostly large companies.

Yeah.

Yeah, mostly like Apple.

Are they a C corp?

I'm sure. Yes. Oh, yes, for sure.

So that's when, like, you start thinking about, like, going public on the stock market and stuff.

Going public. Exactly. That's the difference. Because— yes, because a C corporation is not limited by the number of shareholders where an S corp is. An S corp is limited to 100.

Got it. Got it. So you can only have 100 shareholders. Okay.

That's right.

So which—

which is the reason why it's a pass-through.

Got it. So you would recommend if you're starting a business today or this week, as soon as you have the intent of making money to go open up an LLC, correct?

Yeah. I mean, an LLC is smart from the beginning anyway. Okay. Now, if you're, if you're just baking cookies, that's a different deal. But someone could sue you for burning their mouth. I mean, yeah, you know, so yeah, there's been situations.

Yeah. So whenever you have an LLC and so like for real estate, for example, I've kind of juggled around the thought of investing in real estate through my LLC, and I have friends who create an LLC for each individual property. So is that smart and why is it smart?

It is smart because what you're doing is, let's say that someone is renting your property and it catches on fire. And what if someone is killed in that fire? By— if you had an LLC and everything you owned is under that LLC and they come to sue you, that puts everything at risk. So everything that's under that LLC, by creating separate LLCs for the different properties, then what you're doing is you're limiting it to just that one single property and whatever is held whatever is profited from that. Now, I'm not an attorney, so I don't know if there's probably loopholes around that. There could be, but that's supposed to be the basic idea of an LLC is, is the limited liability. That's why it's there. Now, here's something that you need to keep in mind, though, if you're going to do real estate. If you have 100 different properties and 100 different LLCs, you're going to have to keep 100 different sets of books. You're going to have to file 100 different tax returns. They— so I was actually reading on series LLCs, and they're very complicated, and there's actually been some limitations put on what's allowed and how to handle those. Again, I'm not super experienced in that, but I will tell you that if you're going to have properties I think having one property on there, if you have a— especially if you have 100 different properties per LLC, is a little overkill. I probably wouldn't recommend more than 5 under one LLC, just— and, and it does put those 5 at risk if one happens to the other, but it's going to, it's going to protect the remaining 95. So it just, it really depends on how you want to structure. You could have one LLC with everything underneath it. But just be aware that that limited liability is going to be, cover all properties together.

Yeah. Okay. So you've been doing this for how many years now?

Since 2007. So 17 years.

Oh, wow. Okay. So you've seen a lot. So what is one thing that you see that business owners do that like kind of crawls in your skin and makes you feel like just want to cuss a little bit?

Oh, oh, there's so many things. So, so many. Um, I would have to say so many things. Um, I would honestly have to say like I thrive in fixing books, but it is the most frustrating thing to also have to do. Um, I I will tell you that if you think you cannot, especially if your business is doing well, if you think you cannot afford to pay someone who knows— not, not someone who thinks they know, someone who knows what they're doing when it comes to keeping track of your books, your income, your expenses, your assets, your loans. I mean, there's so many things. If you think that you cannot afford that, you're wrong. Um, because what an what a bookkeeper is going to save you is way more than what they will ever cost you. Besides, they're, they're deductible. Why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you hire someone to help you? And if you want to do it yourself, have them teach you. Find someone who is willing to teach you. So, um, I know in my business I don't demand that we do your books. Honestly, I don't have enough manpower or time to be able to do everyone's books. But I do not mind teaching it or being available to answer questions, you know, because so I would have to say that's probably the biggest frustration is the ones that, that excuse not, not running their business like it's a business.

Yeah. So for any of you watching or listening, that's kind of what Sheila does. She, like she said, she's been doing it for 17 years. So if you're needing help with anything, If you're looking for a service like that, all her contact info will be in the description. So feel free to reach out, whether it's your books, whether it's filing your taxes.

Yeah. And I was going to add to that, I am a wholesaler for QuickBooks. So especially if money is an issue, then call me. If you don't want me to do your books, fine. I can help you to at least get QuickBooks at a cheaper rate. I can give you options. And because they're raising the rates constantly, it's going to happen again August 1st. And, um, so the thing is that where, where I can save you even in a software is worth it. So, um, and, and then also you'll be in contact with, um, you know, people that are certified in QuickBooks. So I have my daughter working for me, she's certified, I'm certified. And we, we offer help, uh, if you, if you need the help, if you're going to do it yourself.

So either y'all can take over that part, or are you going to be doing any teaching or any courses that people could attend?

So that is my goal. Um, currently, uh, just I would say there's, there is a little bit of a fear of delving off into something new. I know QuickBooks very well. I've done it for a long time, but I want to make it a little different. And my goal is to start having— offering Zoom courses and also in person. I actually would like to get to doing that hopefully within the next 6 months, maybe even sooner.

Yeah. Yeah. So when that happens, well, I'll have to come back in and update it and put a link to where you can go sign up.

Sure. Yeah, just need a good IT person that can help me. And I think I found— Yeah, yeah, that's funny.

So what are some things in 2024 that business owners should think of as far as saving on taxes? What are some tips and tricks and thoughts on that?

Um, so sorry, my phone was ringing. Um, So honestly, I'm going to keep probably saying the same thing over and over. Um, one of the things that you can do is keep good records. Um, and don't throw away— wait, don't, don't throw away receipts. Um, okay. And I'm not aiming this towards anyone particular, but I have a lot of husbands that are like— they look at their wives and their wives are like, well, where's these receipts I don't know. So yeah, don't be afraid to put like an envelope in your vehicle. And if you're— if you are terrible at keeping receipts, as soon as you get a receipt, go stick it in an envelope. Just do it. Don't let it sit in the sun, um, but stick it in an envelope and save it. Uh, and then again, just make sure that you're well informed. Make sure you know what you can deduct. Oh, another big one. So this, this one is probably my most asked question and the hardest thing to explain because, and it's also one of the number one most audited things, vehicles. A lot of people think, oh, well, if I go spend, you know, $75 filling up my vehicle and I drive my car to, to go take care of business, I'm going to write off $75. Wrong. Um, the IRS does require that you keep track of your mileage of your vehicle regardless if you're going to use mileage or actual expenses. So keep that in mind. Um, and then Darren, also I would like whenever you put up my information to reference my website because I have, I have a lot of forms on there. One of them is a mileage tracking sheet, and I also have some interactive forms, things like that. that are helpful. But I have a lot of different links, and in there, whenever you fill out that mileage tracking sheet, if you're going to do it by hand— which there are plenty of apps, but you can do it by hand— make sure that you keep track of everything related to that vehicle. Year, make, mileage, um, your make, model, mileage, um, first select the odometer reading. I have some men that they're like, no, I don't like anyone to change my oil. Okay, well then you need a way to improve your odometer reading, take a picture that's dated, um, or get it changed at least once a year professionally just for the sake of them checking your mileage. And you have a receipt with your odometer reading on it. Um, but what I'm getting at is there— so you can either do actual expenses when it comes to the vehicle, or you can do mileage. So if you have a vehicle that you are driving 100% for business then you can use 100% of everything related to that vehicle, from insurance, tires, repairs and maintenance, parts, uh, car washes, uh, the, um, actual depreciation of the vehicle, interest if it's financed. You can use all of that. But if you're driving a vehicle that's used business and personal, then that mileage sheet is going to tell us, because at the end of the year, if you have driven 30,000 miles and 15,000 of it was business, then it's a 50% deduction, 50% of all those actual expenses. Not— you can't just take your $75 receipt and use it. You can only use 50% if that's how many miles you drove was 50% business. So just make sure that you keep track of that. Mileage is a huge deduction and there's a lot more benefits to tracking mileage. But if you're audited, you have to make sure that you've done it correctly.

Got it. Okay. Yeah. And that's, that's been a confusing thing for me to learn because it's confusing. I mean, I have one car. I started this whenever I was in college and it was mainly for personal use until this year, honestly, which I still use it for personal use, I guess, when we go out of town and stuff. But yeah, I, I've been curious, like. Is there any point where you can say, hey, I'm using this 100% for business now?

It has to be 100% for business. You have to have another vehicle available for personal use.

So, so you have to have two vehicles basically.

Essentially, yes. You can't— you cannot have one saying that it's 100% business and say you don't have personal life. It's just— it doesn't make sense. And so nobody's going to buy that, you know what I mean?

Yeah. So for example, if I were to go out and buy a scooter, like a Vespa, like a little motorcycle scooter thing, and I was to put like our logo on it, use it as advertising, is that a way to kind of consider that a business expense?

The logo is.

So if we were to have it wrapped in, in our— well, I'm not going to reveal our new name, but let's just say Flights and Sites Media logos and advertising on it— the actual scooter, scooter is not deductible, correct?

I'm not saying it's not, but you cannot tell me you're only going to use it for media. But if you do, let's say that you do, let's say you put a GoPro on it and that's all you're using it for, then I mean, yeah. So you just basically, you just have to have— yeah, you just basically have to justify your deduction. So no, no, no lying about it. There's really no point. And you're— there are gray areas, you know, and I say gray areas, I'm not saying something that's wrong. I'm just saying that there are things that you can do that make things deductible. And to be honest, and I thought about this while ago when you were talking about a vehicle that I didn't touch on as an S corporation. One of the benefits, another benefit to being an S corporation is you can actually, like as an individual, you can own a vehicle, but your business could lease it from you. And that's a whole nother thing. I don't want to go into all the like, details on how that works and all that, but it is a possibility. And, um, or as an employee, if you're driving your vehicle for work and your boss, okay, allows you to turn in mileage as an employee, you can keep a mileage log, turn it into the company, and reimburse yourself based on the standard mileage rate or whatever the company agrees to pay. As the owner, that makes it easy because of course you're going to want the biggest deduction that you can get. And the great thing about that is it's considered, uh, it's, it's deductible to the business and not taxable to you. Another benefit too is, uh, if you, um, if you have an office, even if it's in your home, okay, and you have an office and it is 100% used for business— it cannot be a shared room, you cannot have a bed in there and put a desk in there and call it your office, you just can't— so it has to be specifically an office only used for business. And you can— the company can rent that office or that room from you as an individual. And then there you can basically what I call double dip. You can have the business deduct the rent and then you as an individual, you claim back that rent as income, but then you can deduct all the expenses related to that office. So you can, you can deduct them on both sides. I do that. I built an office behind my house. The office is built under mine and my husband's name, but my business rents the building from me, and that is exactly what I do. So I get to deduct the rent, and then I turn around on the personal side, I claim back the rent as income, but then I get to depreciate out the building, write off the utilities, any kind of insurance, anything related, any kind of repairs, maintenance, anything related directly to the building.

Wow. So anytime you make money, and you just got to be thinking about like, because the government's going to get its portion, and there's ways it's designed to promote building a business like this because there's incentives, tax incentives to help you save money. So You know way the heck more about tax saving strategies than I do. So how much do you think you would say you've saved over the years using these techniques? Like just a range.

It's thousands. A lot. And I'm honest.

Thousands? Hundreds of thousands?

Probably tens of thousands. And not only that, but when you change your business structure and you give your business more of a flow of revenue, um, guess what you can do? You can grow. So you can actually take the money that you would be spending in taxes, reinvest it into your business, and expand and grow, put it into people You know, so I feel like small minds create small businesses. If you're willing to step out and have the trust and faith that, you know, you're— by doing things right, okay, now not cheating the system, by doing things right, that you're actually going to grow your business. It's going to make— your goal is to pay taxes. I know that sounds terrible, but a true business owner is not going to say, well, I don't want to pay taxes. They're going to say, my goal is where tax is just a side thing. You know, you want to be able to make enough in your business to where it's— it sustains itself even after you pay your taxes. That's the goal. And be prepared for it. Don't, don't get to the end of the year and you've not even bothered to look at your profit and loss and ask questions and then think that it's someone else's fault. You know, I've actually had that happen to me. And, and I'm like, wait a minute, you know, I do your books, I take care of things, or maybe I don't do your books. I've taught you how to do them. I'm not going to go in and monitor your books and tell you what to pay. You have to actually either get the guidance when your previous year tax return is filed or during the year. If you know your business is bringing in more revenue, keep an eye on it. And ask for that help, ask for that guidance, get that number, get the analysis done, whatever it takes. So it's— I would really— I would have to say just make sure that you stay on top of things. Take care of estimated tax payments, which we haven't talked about. But when your business grows, it's going to be a requirement. And your goal is at the end of the year, you're either having to come up with very little because you've done so good or you actually have extra that you can start applying to the next year to stay ahead.

Got it. So estimated tax payments. So what does that kind of look like?

So it can be done a couple of ways. If so, let's say it's a business that's established that basically has the same cookie-cutter revenue and income— I mean, income expenses every single year. Okay. And so every year they know that they're going to make X amount of profit. They— if their spouse works, their spouse is going to be making the same amount of money. It's going to be based on the tax return from the previous year because the IRS says that you have to pay estimated taxes based on a look-back period. So they're gonna— so for '24, whenever we get to the end of '24 and we file, um, if your income is comparable to '23 and you have not met your same tax obligation that you had in '23, the IRS will penalize to you. They're going to say, uh-uh, you knew last year that you made this amount of money and you knew how much tax you owed last year. You should have at least met that for this year, and since you didn't, we're going to penalize you for making us wait on our money. That's essentially how it works. Um, so in that situation, an estimated tax will be put together whenever you get your taxes done. If you look at your tax return, you will have a 1040-ES, which is coupons or vouchers that have it divided out with due dates. And you, you're going to already know that dollar amount in order to meet your tax obligation. Does that mean that the next year that you're not going to owe? No, because what if you do make more? You just won't have a penalty. You just have to make up the difference of what you didn't pay. But let's say that you are like in your situation, Darren, what you were talking about, how you were a brand new business and in year 1, you had no idea where you were going to end up. And you and I did. We went through— we— you did take care of estimated tax payments. In the end, you still had to owe, but it's because your business picked up quicker in the last part of the year than what we had anticipated when we were doing those, right? But you still had been preparing for that. That's the smart thing to do because then you're not having to look at $12,000 all at once, you had already taken care of the bulk of your obligation, right? And so the thing is that by you doing that, you wouldn't have been penalized regardless. You just prevented yourself from having to come up with a large amount all at once. Well, then let's look at year 2. Okay, so let's say that you hadn't changed your business structure because that changes so many things. We still are kind of in the same situation, but let's just say you hadn't, then what happens is that you actually, if your business is growing, let's say that you double your income from one year to the next and you have not stayed on top of it, then first of all, that's going to be, that's going to hurt. But whenever you get your tax return done, when they do that lookback period, as long as you have met that tax obligation for the previous year, you're okay. And even if you owe $20,000, they're not going to penalize you unless you don't pay it on time. Okay, um, so those estimated tax payments probably might have been set too low, but you didn't know where your growth was going to be. You're okay. There's still no penalty as long as you, you're prepared for it. So that, that's the key— be prepared and Stay on top of your numbers. If you don't understand them, find someone who does.

So what would be one, I guess, advice whenever looking for somebody to either teach them or like if they're trying to find somebody local, where would you start?

Oh, well, honestly, I've seen a lot of like I'm not— I don't want to like put anyone else down because that's not my goal here, but I have seen a lot of people who simply advertise themselves as knowing and they don't. So I, I think that being able to either find references or find someone who has reviews, read their reviews and, and know that they know what they're talking about, go sit and talk to them. Like in my business, I offer a free consultation. I'll answer their questions before they ever even consider what they're going to do next. And the reason that I do that is because they need to know who I am, what I do, and what I know. I think that if you just go hire someone blind and you've never taken the time to essentially— I can't say interview them because I don't want to be interviewed, um, but at least ask the questions and see how knowledgeable they are, then, um, you're you're not doing your business any favors. You have to make sure that whoever you hire or you consider hiring, that you have taken the time to do essentially what you're doing here— ask the questions and see if they can answer them.

Yeah, so don't go just find Uncle Bill in the back who used to have a business in 1982 for like 6 months in Ireland.

No, definitely not.

I know a little bit about that.

So I'm gonna kind of circle back to a question you asked me earlier because you saying that just— it made me think. What just crawls under my skin? Someone that comes to me for advice and I'm giving them the advice based on my knowledge and experience, and then they come to me, well, I talked to old so-and-so and they told me this. Well then, have them do your stuff, because honestly, I don't, I don't I'm not going to lead someone astray and I'm not going to make things up. And I'm also— it— the thing is that the IRS is never just a yes or a no. It's always a yes, but, or a well, maybe, you know. And so it depends on the circumstances. Everybody is different. So you can't just take what someone says and go, well, you know, so-and-so told me this, or I was talking to so-and-so about that. Quit telling everybody your business, you know, go to somebody who knows what they're talking about. Make sure you know what they're— that they know, and, and then heed their advice. I have not found one person that has taken the time to listen to what I've told them that has come back and been mad at me about it. Um, and it always falls in line. And to me, doing taxes, doing books, it's numbers, and numbers always make sense. If something isn't making sense, something's wrong.

Yeah. That is very true. Even in my business.

Yeah.

People are like, hey, how much does it cost to get these pictures done for this house or something? And I'll tell them and they're like, oh, okay, I'll just use my phone. I'm like, okay, a lot of words I want to say, but have fun. Do your thing. Anyway, I'm like, if you're running a business and you're not willing to put a couple hundred dollars in investment into making your pictures professional and you're making $6,000, $7,000 off the sale, that's just— I don't know.

So I have a saying.

Seriously.

Yeah, I have a saying for you. Don't pinch a penny and cost yourself a dollar. Yeah. Simple as that.

Because then, like in that situation, they're like, why is nobody looking at the house? I'm like, well, you took your pictures on iPhone 6. Like, I don't know what else to tell you.

Right?

Like, like we, yeah, we get questions and we'll be teaching somebody about social media and they'll come back, they're like, oh well, somebody else told me that this worked instead. I'm like, well, okay, it's a little different when it comes to taxes, but because I mean, you know what, I'm legal.

But what I've discovered is if somebody else tells them something and they want to believe that more, that's what they wanted to believe anyway.

Yeah, it's what they want.

So here, yeah, I mean, it's, it is what it is. And when you become a professional in what you do, or you are the professional, you just kind of have to let those people go because they're really not worth it anyways. Um, and the ones who are willing to listen, they're the ones going to be around in 10 years.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And those are the clients we like to have.

That is right. You need, you need, uh, people who have longevity.

So here at, I guess, Flights and Sites, we We do a lot of social media stuff. Have you used social media very much in your business?

I mean, a little bit. Um, I'm not a huge social media person. Um, I, I do for like important announcements, things I feel like people need to know. Um, I— but I only use Facebook, and I know Facebook is not the go-to for most people. Um, So honestly, the answer to that question is no, I haven't. Um, you can ask my girls. Instagram, like, I'm like, how do you do this? What is this? Yeah. And I'm a very technology-based person, but social media is not my kind of technology. Yeah.

And it also helps that you've had 17 years of history and references built up So, you know, that's right.

Most of my business does not come from social media. Mine comes from, like, mouth, you know, word of mouth referral. I've had people from all over and they're like, oh, well, my cousin went to you, or, you know. And so that, that's usually where mine comes from. Yeah, yeah. For new businesses, I think social media is absolutely the way to go. Um, I'm going to use You know, your, your cousin, as an example, she's been— she's had her business for 6 months and she's shipping all over the United States, you know. So, um, social media has been her platform. I hopped on her TikTok Live last night. She's like, Mom, what are you doing here? Yeah, fine, I'll leave.

That's funny. So you have TikTok?

Yeah, because she sends me TikTok videos and I can't view them without it.

It's a trap. It's a trap. Get out while you can.

It's a trap. We have to work.

We have to work with TikTok. Oh, go for it.

I'm going to say if I was in a position where I needed to expand my business or I was looking to grow, Absolutely, absolutely. I would do it in a minute. I would do it, and you'd be the first person I would call because I'm not good at it. Just— I'm just simply not. But kind of at capacity in my business right now, and I just hired someone new. Once I get her trained, I might be able to bring on a few more, you know, clients. So, uh, and that's why I say, like, we just simply don't have the manpower to do everyone's stuff, so we do not mind teaching it and teaching it right to people.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's one of the things that I can see in the future for you working out really well is with your, the education side of things. And the only platform you'd really need to use would be YouTube, honestly. And like, you don't have to have a massive following or anything, but if you can get some courses made online that you could put up somewhere. And kind of have a funnel going towards those. So like, first of all, you spend only a few hours recording these things. Second of all, you don't have to be there every time somebody wants to learn about it. So you get all that free time, but you're still reaping the benefit of that income on the side.

I love that. And I want that. Yeah. Yeah. And you could help me with that?

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Yes. Okay, that's it. That's a yes.

I am currently working on like a basically like a Media 101 or Social Media 101 type thing where we're just going to break down the basics because we've been doing trainings and stuff and people are eating it up and they love it because a lot of people don't know about like the SEO stuff you got to do. All the backend stuff, the geotagging, what hashtags do, like how to reach certain audiences. And people are loving it. How to find trends, how to get more eyes on your stuff. And we're taking these accounts with like 50 followers and we're getting 4,000 or 5,000 views on every video just because we know how to post it correctly. And so people are just like, whoa. And that, we were talking about the value thing earlier, just like, the last 3 years of learning and building up this knowledge in itself is worth, like, if we can, if I could have paid somebody $1,500 to teach me what I know in an hour, like, I would have paid that 3 years ago and I would have been 3 years ahead. Like, it just makes sense. So yeah, that could be something cool for, for you in the future.

Well, you got, you got my mind going now because when we get done here, I have some questions for you. Yeah, hey, I actually have some ideas. My mind never stops with ideas, ever.

Same. I'll be in— I'll be getting ready to go to sleep and I'm like, Katie, uh, what do you think about this? She's— I was like, what if we— what if we like completely rebrand? She's like, it's 11 PM, I'm going to sleep.

Go to sleep, Darren.

I'm like, sorry, you're right, you're right. Anyways, Well, thanks for coming on the show. Hopefully, if you're listening to this, you found some value that came out of this. And like I said, we're going to leave all her— all of Sheila's contact info if you want to reach out to her, if you want to set up some time to learn, some time to get set up where they're running your books, that'll be there. But other than that, thanks for coming on the show, Sheila. Um, hopefully we'll have you back out again sometime.

Okay, thank you, Darren. I enjoyed it.

Yeah, no problem. You have a good one.

You too.