4 Dimensions All Entrepreneurs Must Master – Alon Braun with Dave Asprey, Part 2 : 842

Bulletproof radio, a state of high performance.

Let's switch gears and talk about entrepreneurship and mission and vision and things like that. And I have a sneaking suspicion that this may end up being a two part podcast because we're just getting going on this part of it. So we've learned a lot about memory palace and decision making. But let's talk about entrepreneurship. And you hit the most important thing first there, which is you see the I have lots of vision and nothing ever happens. And we all know a bunch of entrepreneurs, crazy inventors, people like that, where you know, they might have the greatest thing since sliced bread, gluten free bread. But they it never sees the light of world because they couldn't execute. And then we see the executors who execute stuff that doesn't matter even if they make money. Yeah, it seems like you're allergic to both of those.

Both. I'm totally allergic. This is why I like your work, I must say, I will say it again because you touch the inner self. You're touching dick psychological and you're exploring psychological places. You're exploring the system area, you're exploring the marketing and you're exploring as a team and collaborative work. All of them are necessary. People all the time neglecting one of them and say okay, this is evil. You know what? I'm only about like a spirituality and marketing is evil. And and then the other guy is saying oh this is like what is not. It's not practical. So all the time it's like there is like a fight and it's actually entities within us. Like the people like judging us, you know, they're judging a specific, a whole world. All criteria they're judging and they never succeed like that. So we need to balance. It's all acting act of balance between all these forces. And this is why I built the framework and the framework guides step by step and looking at how can we what is the best framework for every step? So because you know, I in every step, you know, for example, development now let's say you need to build a product. You know there are masters of development. There are people that build like huge stuff and, and you bring them along. You know my framework just like, you know, it's an integral framework meaning I just get the best guys in the world. I I'm locating who are the best guides in the world for problems that I had with companies in the past and, and say okay, this is actually, this is the best framework in development and this is the best framework in testing something. And this is the Best framework for marketing and this is the best framework for team building and leadership. So you need them all. So I'm collecting all this framework into a meta framework. Just collecting from the step of creating an idea which require, for example, biohacking. The first step. A person need to be receptive. And this is I cover in the book. You need to be receptive for inspiration. Need to be receptive to. And I think that, you know, if you are, if you're deep in the art and this was a great Tori Amos book that just, she just released a great book and she talk about inspiration and the muses and how they. She gets a song and you talk, you, you, you listen to Tom Wade, you see how he built music and you understand it's about like receptive, it's about receptivity. How do you can be receptive to the world when you are in anxiety of relationship, when your body is miss. Is like not aligned, you totally inflamed. How can you be receptive to anything when you are not? The antenna is not working.

Your sensors are your mitochondria at the end of the day and if they're tweaked, you can't pick up the subtle stuff in the world around you. Right?

Yeah. So how can you do creativity if you, you don't have the subtle ability to sense and if you create an armor of masculinity, of like, oh, we need to do something. How can you be receptive to, to anything? And this is exactly the issue that we have in our days. It's like, you know, you have these entrepreneurs that, you know, they operate, they, in their place of operation zero receptivity. They don't have no clue what the client even wants. Yes, they have all the system in place and the processes. It's, it's like the, the attunement, we can say this word is, is very low.

What percentage of entrepreneurs are tuned out would you estimate? I know you don't have a study, probably, but.

I think it's so big, Dave. I think it's so big they're meaning like I think they fail in the first stage. So I think people, they're tuned out totally. I think this will be 99% of population unless they do inner work and bodywork. Yogis, people do like actually hardcore work. They can actually make creation happen when it's a body attunement. So what is the chance, what is the chance of the attunement of being connected to these places? I think it's a modern Silicon Valley and I say us is leading. You see, like these are two. It's happening. People coming with meaningful stuff. They coming more and more. It's coming. It's coming. There are very few of them. We all own them. We all know the names.

Yeah, yeah. And if, if this sounds totally weird, guys, I wake up every morning and I do a half hour of movement exercises with a small group of people over zoom. Because it's not. At least I don't know how to. How to perform at the levels I do and write books and do a podcast and have five companies and all stuff and be a dad. I can't do it. If I don't do that stuff. It doesn't work. Yeah, right. So that's. That's something that, that I'll just say, yes, that's real. But a lot of people don't know it. So you and I would agree. A lot of people are going through the motions. They're suffering a lot. They're not getting the results they want in part because they're tuned out. And in your book, in the Entrepreneur's Journey, it's really cool that you based on Ken Wilber's work and then you tie in Thomas Edison. Can you walk me through kind of the. The parts of the book you. Yeah, I have like pressing.

Maybe you see, you think it's a diagram. If I show like this.

We can cut it in later. So we can cut in. It's on the COVID of the book, guys, and it's called the Entrepreneur's Journey by Alon A L O N Braun B R A U N so if you're listening to this and you want to go to Amazon, you can pick it up or.

And by the way, they either. If somebody want. There is like a self assessment tool I built. It's like on Riverbanks.com Scorecard and the person can score himself like on the. On the different phases of the entrepreneurship or like where you have bottleneck.

You didn't tell me about this. It's not even in my, my prep notes and when we talked. Cool. All right, so. Riverbanks.comScorecard okay, I just went there. I'm gonna have to take the assessment.

Cool. Okay. It's a very basic assessment, but it's like, it's important stuff. It's like the basic components. It's like people fail on the basic. So I tell you the basic. I will the basic now. So first of all, the, the Ken Wilber framework. It's like a dividing the world into four dimensions. We can say and this is how I picture it in the book. I don't know, it's like a four dimension. You have X. Okay. You do not see, but you have the internal world and the external world, and you have the individual and collective. These four elements comprise everything. So everything is either within you or within the collective, or outside of you or outside the collective. So this is like everything in the world will be on this grid. Now, the journey we take as entrepreneur, we move actually each focus area and each, I think, let's say each focus area is a whole world by, by itself. So if I teach my children, I will teach them. Listen, actually, the knowledge is on four dimensions. You need to master the four dimensions. So one of the dimensions will be the internal world. Who are you? What do you feel? What is your muscle? What is your feeling? How is your hand related to your leg? Everything about you, what do you feel?

That's like a five year process though, right?

Yeah, but this is like it's a whole life. No, I think it's like, you know.

It is your whole life.

Yeah, I. I think something is beautiful about people. And this is a brain. We can live with paradoxes. We can live in learning different things and they are still there. Even that even contradict you can have information which actually contradict each other, contradict another information, and you still be with both of them. It's possible that we as a human being, we can hold the paradoxes. And this is the beauty of the brain, we can actually hold it. We can hold many things in our brain. In each one of them, it's networks that actually operating. So what I will say, there is a whole body of knowledge that we learned about the internal of us. And this is critical for entrepreneurship. And in that I put input and output so there is receptive to the world and there is expressing to the world. Both of them you can master. You can. As entrepreneur, I say, you know, I made a conference. People do not. I don't know about me, but people do not know to speak. It's not like I'm the expert. I'm not expert in nothing. But people don't know to give a presentation. You have Entrepreneur, you want $20 million for this amazing thing. But. But he, it's like he doesn't know how to talk.

Thank you for saying that. I. I was coached for a while by a guy who taught most of Silicon Valley senior executive teams how to give their most important presentation ever. 200 IPO roadshows. And I've been through countless media trainings and I taught for five years. And. And people like, oh, Dave, you know, you just came out of nowhere and you went from computers. Like, do you know how much learn how to talk? Right. Thank you for calling that. An entrepreneur who can't communicate needs to do some work.

Go learn from, like, the best acting schools in the world. Do the work. You know, you're missing out. You cannot give a presentation to raise 10 million. You don't know nothing. You do not. You don't know to write a paper, like even a pitch deck or anything to express yourself. Copyrighted, basic. And this is an art in. Artists do it amazingly. So go study is art of expressing. Oh, it's a body art or it's a. And this is a second phase in the internal world. There's a receptiveness and there is expressing. Then we move to the next. I say dimension in the entrepreneur journey. And this. This is with a. With a. It's a collective, the internal collective dimension, which means actually team. Okay, so we have the entrepreneur and he need to build something in the world. You need a team. We need. People need to communicate how to make decision together who, what he need. Like how they operate as a team. So people fail miserably on this point. Miserably. This is a main, and I call it like the entrepreneur journey. It's a movement from the, you know, from, you know, one world to another world. It's like this is like the. You have in every movie, every Hollywood movie, you have like, this as a hero is moving from one world and you go to another world and all the action happening in the other world. Like, this is a Joseph Campbell framework. And like the hero journey. Joseph Campbell. So this is how it's aligned with the Ken Wilber. So what's happening? We just actually. Our journey is moving from inside of ourselves to actually collaborating with people. And every person do it. When you go every day to work, and every person can have more meaning if you understand that this is something that is learning every day. How do you collaborate with people? How do you lead people? How this is working? And this is a journey by itself. So the journey starts from being alone, then being with others. And the others I put input and output. So we're talking about, like, okay, as a team now that we build a team. Like, okay, how do we align yourself to the entrepreneur? How do we listen? How do we, let's say, build the team? And then how we together, how we plan? Because the planning phase is when you build a team, you make a plan. And I put it and Then you have the tool. What is the best framework to plan to make collaborative decision? How do you work together? What's happening when people interfere with your work, when somebody is actually affecting the team in, in a, you know, not good way. How do you deal with that? How do like all this knowledge of teamwork, of leadership, it's a recipe for disaster for people. I've been to so many failures myself. Like building teams that like collapse. Like, you know, argument with partners, argument with that. You know, you take a scientist coming now he's like a molecular biologist. Now we have a team. I don't know the chances of success. Give him the best tools, we learn the best tool to work. How you work with the team. And there are great teachers in the world. I'm not the teacher. There are great teachers in the world. And then I go to the world of the external. You have to know to melt systems. I give the best. What is the best Agile frameworks. How do we actually beside developing and building all the assets that we need in the company and all these frameworks of development which is entrepreneur usually don't have a clue. Then what about like also about testing. How do you make sure that. What about you know, you know, you have a lean startup and you have so many methodologies that developers they know to handle and people in the entrepreneur have no clue. So I talk about this subject. How do you build systems? And that's the world of the system, of the external collective. And then we have the marketing. This is like the understanding the end user. Understand how do you reach the end user and how do you get information back? Input and output again. So every phase of input and output, how do you get to the user which is marketing channels, advertising, you know, it's like it's a whole world and people don't get it. It's every. Each one of them is a whole world that you need who are the best. In every world you need the best. You need to find who are the best teachers. You need to find the best courses and that they work for every CEO.

Alon, you said something there that I don't want to gloss over. Finding the best teachers. What you find over the course of being an entrepreneur or just evolving as a human in a career that isn't entrepreneurship is that some people are more believable than others. And that's Ray Dalio, I think highlighted that best in his book.

I mentioned him in my book as well because he's doing amazing work.

He sure is. In fact, I'll have him on the show one of these days. I've chatted with him once really briefly. And the issue there is that when you're just getting started, you don't really know who's a huckster and who's a good teacher. So you start building discernment, which is the ability to go, ah, I've got something to learn from this person. And they're not pretending to be a teacher to get something from me. They're actually a teacher. Right, and then one of the things that you evolved, at least what I've evolved to, is now I curate the experts and then I bring them on the show. Like, I have you on the show and I put them in the upgrade collective, you know, and we all study stuff because it saves you so much time to go to the teachers. Right. As long as you're going to the good teachers, you know, your elders are people with wisdom.

People younger. Exactly.

Figured out. I will end with, yeah, how do you know? Like, what's your filter for discernment? What's your process for picking a teacher?

It's very simple. I tell you, this is something understood. The answer is very simple. I understood it only like, you know, after so many failures, it's like, you know, take an advisor that's been to the journey, give a few percent, this will make your life so much easier. Just work with somebody that's been there already. Don't be so arrogant to think that you are inventing the wheel. Just like, get an advisor that been to the journey before you. It's okay. It's like, that's. That's the way. Experience. I do not know to say what is like experience and just precious. Don't be arrogant to think, oh, no, I don't need him. No, you need him. You need the advisors that been to the journey, the mentors. In every hero journey, there is a mentor you're working with. Like, you know, the wither, the unleaf. I don't know. You need them. You have to get them next to you. Do not underestimate this line of mentors that. That can coach you, that can tell you, like, oh, okay, I smell. It's this direction. It's not this. I've been to that. What is a big issue? What is like, so this. I did not understand it as a, like, you know, tech startup guy, I didn't understand I need them and now I understand.

And you also need to listen to them, which is not something that I think you have built into your book. At least I'm not remembering that that Part of it, a lot of the times there was a while ago, I had a really destructive executive at one of my larger companies, and I'm talking with a guy who runs a half a billion dollar a year annual company. And I said, hey, his name was Ken, too. Who's your mentor? And he says, jack Welch. Holy crap.

Really?

He says, yeah, we got to be friends years ago. And he'll call. You know, he talks to me all the time. And so I told him my situation, and he says, do you want to use your phone or mine? And he hands me his phone to fire the executive. Just straight up. Right. It took me 18 more months of chaos and destruction before I listened to him. Right. But it's that willingness to listen to someone who has pattern matching systems that are superior to yours, and that's the role of advisors.

Yeah.

So I wish I'd have picked that up earlier in my career because, look.

You can also expect the decision. I will say, okay, sure, let's pack the decision. Let's put all the criteria. It's all this, you know, no, get the advisor. I think it's a heuristic, is work with, you know, human brains and people. It's like, that will be the best solution for this problem. And this is. In the world of the team, it's not everything about. Yeah, that's mine.

So I. I appreciate that mindset a lot. All right, so in. In the entrepreneur's journey, you've got. And by the way, one of the guys in the Upgrade collective, I think it was.

It was.

Don figured out, at least as we're recording this, that you made the Kindle unlimited edition of your book free, which is super cool. So if they're a subscriber to Kindle, where you pay something every month that people can read it, so you're also making this, we'll say, highly accessible. It's like five bucks on Kindle. So you're out to get people to read it. Yeah. Okay, so now we got sensing and expressing, which is the first part of the book, the work you do on yourself. And then you talk about teams, which we're getting into here around partnering with collaborators like advisors, and then you talk about planning, and then you get into developing. So tell me about planning and developing in your book. What's different from using Ken Wilber's framework and Thomas Edison? What do you do differently than everyone else?

First of all, I don't do differently. Nothing from anybody else. I want to say it's. My framework is a collection, and it's Integral work to find the best teachers that I can. My art here is building is like a. It's like a basic mandala. It's a main framework, the things inside. You know, I just try to.

It's a framework of frameworks. You sorted them into the right order.

Yes, exactly. I just sorted in the right order. That's to give organization for everything that I can remember. And also with my die, you're the.

First guy I've met with an actual fetish for sorting. That. That's. That's pretty kinky.

Thank you.

Totally, totally kidding. But it is what you did. And that is how the very best architects, at least software and virtual logic land architects do things. You figure out, oh, this is how you solve this piece of the problem, and you do that, and then you do this and do that, and that is how you create elegant solutions and automation, which is. Which is really cool. So you're saying you just found the best ones for business and. And for learning. Right. And I got to say, you've done some pretty cool stuff there because you just look at all the diverse things you've done in your career, both your ability to navigate through different areas of expertise and then to bring it all together and say, all right, you know, I've become financially successful and all that, so I would say this stuff works. And what you're looking to do is take away a lot of the. The sorting and filtering that a new entrepreneur or an experienced one would have to do in order to figure out what works best, which is actually really hard to do in a book. And I think you did a pretty good job.

I tried my best. I built a book for me, like, 20 years ago to read, like, what mistakes I did all over the years. This is like, basically it.

One of the reasons we write books, and some authors say this, but a lot of them don't. When you write a book, you have to learn the material really, really well. You either learn or you teach. And funny enough, do I write books and do I teach in the Upgrade collective every couple of weeks? Why do I do that? Well, A, I like to help you guys, but B, it makes me lock in and cement the stuff that I'm doing so that I remember better and I can apply it better in my own life and my own companies and all of that. So I think part of your writing was to get. Was to more clearly structure your architecture and your algorithms so that they lock into your brain as well.

Not only that, I will say. I will say that in my man palace. So in my mind palace, I can stand in front of an obra in a project and I can operate my, my mandala. I call it mandala. But I, I will operate my framework and I will say, okay, first question, what do I, what do I vision here? Second question. So I go through my mandala for every, for every project actually who I team with, who is actually the team. This is the question that I ask and actually what we building. So questions like that are the basic for every project. So because I know I have the tendency, for example, to get to too much details myself. So questions like, okay, actually who is in here is a team who I work with on this and questions like that are what I'm running. It's actually the framework. So I'm running the framework for every project. And then I know where I meant with different projects. This is what I do in the virtual palace.

We all know that marketing can be a tool for evil. Insert ad for big Pharma here. Or it can be used as a tool for good. You can market kindness, you can market gratitude, you can market skills, or you can market, you know, cigarettes. It's, it's amoral marketing as it's, it's what you have behind the marketing that, that defines the morality. But you talk about the, the final part of your book about engaging, taking a product or service, I'm going to say idea to market. And because you've been doing a lot of Internet marketing in your career, like you've learned how to do ad buying and media buying and all that kind of stuff. What, what's your advice? It's 2021 now and things have shifted a lot. So what is the best way to take a service to market, given the world we live in now?

Live. Okay, I will say it for every. First of all, I would say for every quadrant, there are people you know in our life. Every quadrant, let's say development, marketing team is actually a network. So it's a network of people. You need a marketeer. The marketeers that you need to work with have a network of like he can tap to the best funds in the world, to the best landing page. You know, he been to the conferences. You need the network alive for you. So your CFO needs a link to the investor. Your marketing guy needs a network for the marketing guys, which is like the publishers and your developer need to have all the other CTOs. So it's, everybody is about the network that they hold. So my advice will be, do not underestimate what you're dealing with. The Competition is fierce. And in marketing, if you're going with your good heart and your inspiration, you are dealing even with fears the world. And I'm not sure that people are aware what's happening because you know when you lie and when you don't tell the truth about your product, it's like much easier. And how do you compete? How do you actually, for example, longevity. How do you make a supplement? And I deal with this problem all the time. I advise, like longevity guys, they make a beautiful supplement, amazing. You know, some take great and they need to sell a supplement now. They don't know what they're dealing with. The guys that are on the supplements world, in Facebook and in Google, they are so fierce they have no clue what they're dealing with. It's like the competition. They have to have the arms and they have to have the network to the best of the best around them constantly. The CRM. So this, I think this is the main advisor, I will say. And this is for every quadrant. For every quadrant, you need the best experts around you and not even expert networkers.

So you need networkers, you need good experts. It's funny, we didn't really have a thesis at Wharton, but sort of the big project that involves way more math than it should have. When I was studying this was 18 years ago or something, I looked at the supplement industry and it went deep on it. I don't think I've ever talked about this on the show before. And I was frustrated because I knew there were tons of crap supplements on the market and I knew there were some good ones. But for the average person who didn't have my level of knowledge, how do you know what's a good supplement? And it turns out there's really only two signals. One of them is packaging. Put it in a pretty bottle, even if it's rice powder and, you know, nothing else. Pretty bottle. And the other one is price. So you make it expensive, put it in a pretty bottle. And the way to make the most money in the business is actually to put crappy supplements in pretty bottles and charge a lot for them. Right. And so that's where the market goes. Yeah. And put them on a subscription. Right. And it's such an unethical, dirty business to do that. So I'm like, I don't want to do that. So my job is to figure out how to do a high quality supplement that signals it enough. And it turns out there's a third way that I didn't prove mathematically, but I proved at least in Equals one, which you actually go out there and you talk about the science and you talk about why it works and what's in there and how it works. And you educate and you bring people along. The only problem is that is we have regulatory stuff where they say, oh, you're not allowed to say what your supplements do because only drugs can do that. So I've run into that where it's just. It's challenging when you have really powerful stuff, but it ultimately comes down to building trust. And what's your advice for teaching people? Assuming you are trustworthy. Because if you're not trustworthy, you can't build trust. But assuming you are trustworthy, how do you teach people that you're trustworthy? Because that's what every marketer who is doing a real thing wants. But they're fighting with people who are trying to build trust, who are not trustworthy.

How do you distinguish between people that are trustworthy and not. How do you know if the Oprah Winfrey endorsement is real or not? This is a question. How do you know that the endorsement is. Because what they're dealing, they're doing the, you know, before they get caught by ftc, they do, like, whatever they want. And the endorsements that you see is whatever you want to see. So this is as far as my. My knowledge of the industry. So I know, I know that it's working this way. So they are taking the find of the, you know, they're taking the fines. And how do you. How do you distinguish between, like, a real endorsement or not really endorsement? And that is a good question.

It's rough. I mean, I have people who take pictures of me at Upgrade Labs, and then they say it's their company. And I interviewed Dr. Oz, who's actually a fine cardiothoracic surgeon and just so knowledgeable, way beyond what most people would believe from the friendly guy you see on TV and he runs you through the ringer before you even get on the show, asks you all kinds of questions, wants, studies. There is compliance there. But when I interviewed him on Bulletproof Radio, he's like, dave, there's hundreds of people using my name without my knowledge, without my permission. I have never endorsed any product. And so there's a huge trust problem with people. But let's take this back down to entrepreneurs. And for people who are looking at that, what's your decision making, your sorting algorithm? For a consumer to know whether something's real and for an entrepreneur to actually project their realness, assuming they have it.

I will say in my Book idea like. And I put it in the end of the book. It's like I put the math of a certain choice. The choice that I put is about choosing the marketing channel. It's not exactly even the content and not even I'm not. It's the game right now. It's in the channel, it's not in the content. I will say like that. So because we have the element of how, what wires, what is running on the, what are the wires and what is running on the wires. Now people can go with crap content. Large media buy so have like a low conversion or low conversion. But still because they managed to buy cheap, their product will be everywhere. And because they managed to process the cards in certain way and they managed to get low cost for the channel, they're just like they will be everywhere in the world. And it's because of the channel is not enough because of the content. Because why? Because the content is really easy to copy. So if you make a Coca Cola, you make another Coca Cola. It's easy. You take a designer, you have the other Coca Cola and you fix that. And you don't put. Okay, you don't put the endorsement. But if the channel is cheap enough then you can make it happen. So it's all about the cost of channels. Now in my book I go about how do. If you have like a 50 channels and we have like hundreds of channels right now, how do you decide if to go with TikTok or you do media by AdWords or you go with like a you know, influencer marketing or you go with like a newspaper and pr. How do you do that? How do you make decisions which channel to go? Now I think this decision of which channels to go in marketing are crucial. I see mistakes, I see mistakes that devastating devastating the business in this part of marketing people not aware to do the marketing itself. So they, they start to invest in a channel that is not scalable. For example, so unaware. So they start to, you know, and this is very common like start to do social. Social media is they. They think that if they post their, their little content in their group of friends they will have like traffic. Suddenly you think suddenly they will have enough traffic. It doesn't work this way. So they have to choose the right scalable. Scalable. For example, it's, it's a really important for channels so scalable channel. So if they put more money, more money it will actually scale. So if you know these email marketing and all these choices and, and I think in my, my opinion it's like channels are a base of decision for the engagement in our world, especially for hackers because we say hacking. So I say like everybody now sitting in the world and everybody can make a lot of money if they have access to a channel. This is the gold, this is access to a cheap channel in our world is equal money, the same as it was in, you know, 100 years ago, you know, Soviet Union, I don't know, this is like 20 years ago or 30 years ago. So the union, break, break and there was like oligarchs being created. They have like a cheap price or cheap, you know, access to land or cheap. Buying cheap today is the main stuff. So buying marketing cheap, it's the main criteria for success in marketing in my eyes. This is besides the content.

I'm not talking about how you're going to get it out there. Okay, yeah, let's talk a little bit about neurotech because that's how we originally met. I downloaded your industry research report. I'm like, wow. So I've got 40 years in, which is my neuroscience company and I talk about that occasionally on the show. But this is the five day brain upgrade thing I've been doing for a while now, mostly with entrepreneurs and some professional sports people and all. And so I said, I want to read this thing. It was a really good report and you saw my name. So we reached out, got to know each other and that's a very interesting, fast moving industry. And I want to know, using your entrepreneurs framework, just your vision of things, where is neurotech going? Where are we going to end up in the next five years? Because I mean, some of it's kind of scary, some of it's kind of cool. So put on your future hat and educate me.

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Yeah. Okay. I will say like this is what I think is coming. I will tell you like the. I will say like that. I will say that we will very soon. And it's happening already. I see it in different places. Tapping in specific network, meaning training specific network. So and I think the people that will able to train the specific network in the brain and read, let's say even biofeedback of specific networks in their brain will have like huge increase in performance. And I think this is happening. So a person that can really be relaxed. Relaxed and can. Can calm down his amygdala because you have a device, you know, you go to, you know a place, you have a place, you understand that because that's the reason you're building this direction. Somebody will go to a place like that and actually can train his amygdala to, to actually be relaxed and another person and then you have another machine that actually train in the sorting. And then you have a machine that train you in like a. I don't know, whatever, whatever. You can train any network in your brain and tap into it and biofeedback into it directly. And this is already game changer. People don't understand like how much is game changer.

It's so big what you can do with that stuff. I couldn't do what I do now had I not spent four months with electrodes on my head. And people. I see that occasionally people don't believe it or it seems out there. I think it's more than spending four months in a cave. Yeah, exactly.

Exactly the cave. Take the yogis, see what they are capable. This is coming. So this is coming for every person. So this is what we are tapping into. Exactly.

So I didn't mean to cut you off there. Let me ask you this. I've brought some crazy power people into 40 years in to scan their brains and when they turn on their powers, they always blink out the gear. Like literally they overwhelm the sensors and we just get garbage data. You ever see that in any of the stuff you've looked at?

What do you mean? Like they, they.

These are guys who, who their teams know don't use wireless mics with them because the wireless mics always break. Like they, they literally make fields with their bodies that cause electronics to mess.

I don't understand it. Is enough. I'm sorry, I don't understand this enough in emf, I don't understand enough.

When I put those guys in, you know, put an EEG on there, you start seeing things change, change. And then all of a sudden you basically, you're having data that, that, that the centers don't pick up. It's junk data. So this has probably happened four or five times where we're looking at people who are experiencing Kundalini transformations and some other. Just very high powered people.

Okay, so this is you doing the work relating these people to the AI people to clean this mess. But somebody need to be educating both of the sides. That's the issue. People that understand, like the Kundalini work and the AI work together, we've had.

To build new tech in order to be able to train some of the states that we know are tied to spiritual stuff. But to sense some of. I, I don't even know what to measure and I think a lot of people don't. So it's acknowledging that the states might be possible, therefore we should look for them. And that's. It seems like that's a big part of neuroscience. And if we blank that out and we think we're meat robots or just meat sorting machines, we're not. And I love that you say we're sorting machines. We are. We're not just sorting machines. And, and it's that just part that seems to need to come into the field of neuroscience from an entrepreneur perspective and from just a human development perspective. So are you, on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being hopeful, bright neuroscience future, 1 being dark, gritty, cyberpunk, meat robot future. Where are you on the neuroscience future? We're looking good. Or are we looking a little bit scary?

I will make a choice and I will be in the romantic part. I think I value romanticism and I prefer to take this, I would prefer. I will make a conscious choice and I will say it's coming great. It will be amazing.

All right.

I can activate another place in within me easily.

Yeah, it's one of those binary decision tree moments. I'm on both sides. Right. Like there are going to be some very bright spots and I think there are going to be some very dark spots as well. You get some of the military uses, probably people that you and I have both talked to who know some of the stuff that's happening both overseas and in North America. And you're going, wow, that looks pretty crappy. And then you look in other spots and you go, wow, wow, you know we might be able to, to turn on some enlightenment pretty quickly. So where it's going to end up, which, which side will win or whether we will always have both sides, I don't really know. But I would encourage entrepreneurs who listen to this who are in neurosciences and neurotech and big data, look at your mission and look at your why and make sure that whatever you're building is in alignment with that because it's possible with any tool you develop to use it for good or bad.

I will say, I will add to that and I say that absolutely. And this point is super important. And what you educating and what you bring, Dave is like the ability to integrate with these two worlds. They so need it. Because what's happening if you give it to the neuro AI guys to make it, to make the ideas it will not need in the good direction. I think that they have to learn the world of the yogis, self awareness, compassion, all these values, they have to learn them as quick as possible possible. We have to integrate it as quick as possible because. But then where is all the magic is. But they do not see it yet. So integrating between the internal world and this external world is the main work right now there are very few people that can handle it and sadly what I see is not the direction. If I look at reality, what's happening. The neurotech guys, they are playing with AI and the algorithm with zero knowledge of what is what a a kid need and what is an autistic kid. You know we have like autistic kids, you know these AI guys, they fix exotic. You need a human connection, you need. It's so far, it's so far right now from this, you know, but it's coming I guess, I don't know. We need more voices like brings a self awareness world to this computer engineers and I hope this is both of us. I think this is a journey we took with the years and I think we need more and more of that and this is my mission here as well.

I have noticed over the last 20 years the best entrepreneurs, the ones who stood out over time. Some guys who've been on the show like Tim Chang has been on. He's a managing director at Mayfield Partners. I've known him since he was an associate in VC just randomly and so we've known each other for 25 years and I've watched him evolve from a relatively wooden young VC I'm in a client VC thing to someone who's done the personal development work and his interview is really Cool. And so you look at that and it's made him a more successful vc. And the entrepreneurs who do their personal development work, they start to grow more and more. But going back 10, 15 years on the whole bulletproof side, the software developers and this was one of the first communities who started drinking bulletproof coffee and using the nootropics that I talk about and all that. A lot of that crowd has gone down either microdosing or holotropic breathing or Wim HOF breathing or anything that gets them out of the bodies. Those are the master level architects, those are the developers who one of them is worth 10 times a regular developer. So we're seeing performance enhancement from mindfulness. So it's my hope that the people who reach the very top are the ones who did the mindfulness work. And I think that's happening, but I'm not entirely sure. But what do you think? Is that a pattern that you're picking up as well?

Yeah, but they are numbered. So the entrepreneurs that making now impactful heart centered decision and like going to make a big change and enhance performance are very few and. But it's happening. They are among, they're there very few.

And I think more than there used to be and maybe they're just more visible but it's our job and it's everyone in the upgrade collect. Everyone listens to the show. You're listening to the show talk about this stuff because it matters. Mindfulness is a part of anything you're building. And an example there, I don't know how many copies of your book are going to get read, but let's assume it's a couple hundred thousand.

I book it directly exactly to this population. I'm trying to integrate them back the self awareness so they will not do a destruction. So whatever I build, I'm trying to give them back.

We're both working on it. But think about this. If your book, if say it takes eight hours to read your book, I think that's about right for the average person.

Right.

So when you have a couple hundred thousand copies, how many hours of human life is that? I don't know, it's a lifetime or two. Right. So bulletproof radio, 250 million downloads or so. So 250 million hours of human life is, I don't know, 100 lives or something, I don't know. But I'm either a mass murderer because I consumed a hundred full lives if my content is crap or I did something worthwhile and at least I gave people back the value they Put you're an Internet marketer, you're an entrepreneur and you build a service that just fritters away people's time and energy because you don't value it it. I think you're a mass murderer and that's my bar.

I can tell you that I already made decision are very clear about what I value and whatnot and where I'm hand said and whatnot. And the fact that I read this show, it means that I value your work. You're not mass murderer. With all respect.

Thank you brother.

I'm sorry. With all respect. You're doing good work and you're doing a heart centered work and your intention. This is what I see. So you know, we are engineer in the end and maybe we are too much marketing. You know, people can judge you on everything you do but anyhow, your work you're bringing something of your heart you're bringing to the world. You help yourself and you try and you're working with others and you're being the joy and you're bringing. I don't know. I. This is what I see about your work. It's coming from the right place and that's all this is very simple. You're not murdering.

It's coming from the. The best place that I know of today. But I believe there's probably better ones coming up. And I see the same thing in your work alon which is. Which is really cool. And that's why I'm really happy to share your unique way of thinking on the show. And guys, listening to this read the Entrepreneur's Journey. Even if you're not an entrepreneur, there's a lot of value in it. And the things we talked about much earlier about the memory palace and understanding, it's not just a way to sort things, it's a way for you to actually do things in your brain in a way that lowers stress and makes you more effective in the world.

Them.

And if, look, if you're a teacher, you'll be a more effective teacher. If you're a parent, you'll be a more effective parent. Right? And if you're a total douchebag, you'll probably be a more effective total douchebag. But maybe you'll fix it as well.

No, you will be moving so you have to do the internal work. So will not be there. Will not.

Awesome. Well, thank you for being on the show. I. I appreciate being on your advisory board with neurotech.com and I love the way you're sorting through all these frameworks and assembling them in a useful way that honestly, for someone who has the wisdom to listen to you and implement at least most of what you're saying, it'll probably save them 10 years of grind in a company. And that's a really big gift for someone. And I wish I'd had some of this knowledge earlier on or at least had the ability and wisdom to implement it. So thank you, man.

Okay. Thank you, Dave.

All right, Upgrade Collective. You guys have any questions for Elon? If you do, here we go. Noel has one.

So I have a question. I heard on a separate podcast that emotion, when you use, when there's something tied to an emotion, you remember it very well. So for example, you go into an accident, you know, you remember it because that induced fear. Do you know of any hacks we can use to remember things better just by leveraging our emotions?

Absolutely. All the palace, it's like you tap into for every object that you place in the palace, you need to connect to an emotion. So how do you do that? It's like, let's say you build a room and you put like the items and so let's say, I don't know, you put a basketball. So you make the basketball. I don't know, something that make you emotional. I don't know, like you make it the head of a monster.

I don't know.

But, but just like to be scary or just put some emotion. Make it very tidy, then make it grotesque, make it funny. So every object that you, you, you place, you need to make it extreme. Yeah. Maybe sexual direction for every object. I don't know, do something just.

Yeah. Tie to an emotion, like make it scary or something like that. Got it. Okay, thanks.

Yeah, I will advise, not advance. We go with the positive emotions and you don't get like a whole. So I try to build like a horror palaces, but it doesn't work so well. It's better. You make funny stuff. Funny stuff. Loving stuff.

Thanks for saying that. Jim Quick has come on, who's a dear friend I spent a lot of time with Jim, who's a memory expert, a learning expert, and one of the techniques I believe we discussed a while back in interview is you can actually make scary stuff because it remembers very well. My experience seems to match yours, which is that it. No, don't do it like there's energy that goes into you. Right. And if you fill your brain with horrific images to remember things better, it might come at an unanticipated catastrophic.

Is you're raising your sympathetic all the time. You're decreasing your ability to remember. It's not good. I don't agree with this, and I.

Don'T want to say Jim recommended fill your brain with horrible stuff, but it was just a passing comment there. But a lot of the book on memory palace techniques, we'll talk about doing that. And like you said, life's too short for that. So you don't need a brain that thinks you're about to die all the time at some supplemental level. Yeah, that was a cool question. Thank you. Thank you for asking that, Noel. Anyone else want to go? Going once, going twice. Everyone says I'm not smart enough to ask this guy any questions. I'm hearing that from a few people.

Don't need to. I'm not an expert.

So, Brandon, you want to ask that? That thing? That's actually a really good question. I'll ask it if you don't want to. I think he's not going to ask. I'm going to ask for him. He's on his cell phone anyway. All right. So he says, all right. What about. What about sex? So you can. You can put things in the memory palace that are titillating. Do you do that? Does that work?

Is it a good idea? This is a good idea.

It's a good idea. All right.

I'm sorry. Sex is something great.

Yeah.

Put it in the palace. We are humans. It's not like I. This is my opinion. Yeah, of course. Yeah, you're right. This is a good direction.

Okay. Good deal. By the way, I totally support that. Even at 40 years, then sometimes when you're stuck trying to get to a new state, like, that's okay. Just close your eyes, have a fantasy for a minute, and you watch people's brainwaves go back to where they wanted them to go.

So the.

Yeah, so there's power. Yeah.

You're connecting to your body.

It's the body. Cool. Well, thanks, guys, for the extra questions. And if you're listening to this going, what the heck is Upgrade Collective? Go to our upgradecollective.com. it's my membership and mentorship group. And you get to log in and actually be a part of the community doing the podcast, which is tons of fun. And if you're not up for the Upgrade Collective, maybe I'll see you at the biohacking conference. Go to biohackingconference.com and if none of that appealed, but you just love Elon Musk. A L o n b r-a u n dot com. Alon Brown is his website, his book is the Entrepreneur's Journey Scorecard. I'll see you on the next episode.

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