6 Messages to Get You Through Tough Times by Spiritual Entrepreneur Gabrielle Bernstein : 747

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You're listening to Bulletproof Radio with Dave Asprey. Today we're going to talk about being a spiritual entrepreneur. And you could say, Dave, have you gone off the deep end or something? But no, actually, I haven't. Because the secret to being especially a mission driven entrepreneur is you have to actually care about what you're doing. And you can't just think you care about it. You have to actually feel. Feel like you care about it. And you have to actually have some kind of hard to define spiritual thing that's a part of it. So I. Who could we bring on to the show that's going to talk to you about those kinds of things? And I'm talking about Gabby Bernstein. She's a number one New York Times bestselling author, a big motivational speaker. She teaches meditation, Kundalini yoga. And she actually just straight up says, I'm a spiritual entrepreneur. So I want her back on the show to be able to talk about this aspect of what it's like, especially during the pandemic and just during normal times to be turned up spiritually like that. And she's gonna be presenting at the virtual biohacking conference that's coming up here. So, Gabby, welcome to the show.

I like being back here with you, man. It's nice to see you.

It's been about 300 episodes. You were on like episode 455 where we talked about Judgment Detox.

That's a long time ago. I've had several books since then.

Yeah, exactly. I probably should have had you on since then, but.

No, it's all good.

But you've evolved as a person, even just over the last couple of years there. And now I want to talk with you about sort of being your own guru. And your message for people is that they are their own guru. Which is weird because I've had these times, especially when I was younger and I was getting going, like, I'm going to go do this yoga thing. I'm going to go to this monastery and I'm going to kind of get on this path. But eventually, like, oh, I'm not going to follow that guru anymore. I've learned and I'm still interested and I've still been able to benefit. Right. But it's like, that's not exactly my path. It's part of my path. So my first question for you here, when you talk about you are the guru, how do people know when they're their guru versus when they're just in learning mode?

I think that you are always your guru, you are always your own guru. When you are in learning mode, you are welcoming in information to the filter that is you, through the teacher that is you. So I believe that we all have a voice of a higher wisdom, a inner sense of knowing, a greater sense of awareness within each of us. And that's the part of us that needs to be the leader. That's the part of us that needs to direct our personal growth journey, our physical health journey, our career, our relationships. When we rely on another teacher or a self proclaimed guru or some yogi or whoever, what will happen? And this is actually quite metaphysical. It's if you make somebody an idol and that idol falls, you fall with them. And this is a key principle in the metaphysical text, of course, in miracles, don't make idols of others because that idol will fall, you will fall with them. So it's about accessing and recognizing that presence of the teacher within yourself and beginning to cultivate and trust that sense of inner wisdom and intuition and the voice of inspiration within you. And when we begin to be more reliant on our own inner guidance system, that's when we can one just feel more free and feel a little bit less like we have to do it this way or follow somebody else's guidance. But we also can begin to feel a sense of certainty and safety because we're now trusting in the own intuitive voice that's within us. And that's when a real sense of safety begins to set in.

Lots of people call you a guru or what do you say to that?

I love that. Even in this audible original I wrote called you are the guru at the end of it, I say, I am not your guru. I am not your guru. Yes, I am a self identified teacher, but I am not your guru. And I mean that because I think that the concept of making somebody special is dangerous, super dangerous. It's funny, Dave, because it's pretty controversial, but I won't get too into it. But there is a part of my bio that I was like, oh, I gotta have to ask him to edit that out. Maybe you will, maybe you won't now. But because there was a path I was on in my spiritual journey that was very transformational for me. But the guru of this path turned out to be a bad dude, right? Turned out to be a sexual predator and a rapist. I mean, these are awful things, right? Things that we see unfortunately in the world. That is something that this is a transformational spiritual practice. A path that I followed that I spoke so highly of. And I was like, really out there and really promoting it and really looking to that as a source of, oh, now I feel good enough to teach, or now I feel. And it's not that I was lacking the trust of my own inner teachings and my own wisdom, but I was putting emphasis on someone else. And I witnessed that. And this book that I wrote for Audible originated with these sutras from that teacher. And right around the time that I was meant to submit the book, I know a lot of this information came forth. That's when I had this major redirect where I went and I looked back at the manuscripts, and while each message was. Was based on these sutras, the actual every single word and concept and teaching in the book was mine. And so it was really clear to me that not only was I able to just adjust the messages to be more mine, but to really to recognize I didn't have to change a single word in that manuscript because it was all my teachings. And then I only added one extra message in the book, which is, you are the guru. And it was telling that story of don't make someone else an idol, because that idol can fall.

It's a very odd situation. But this may be. In fact, I'll tell you, I feel uncomfortable saying this, but sometimes people who do bad things can also teach good things. And that some people are a mix of bad and good. But we have this cancel culture where if someone did something bad 50 years ago, we have to destroy everything they've ever created. Which I find it bizarre, right? But we have this incredible polarized, reactionary environment that we're in right now. And I don't really know what to do with that, where you're saying, okay, clearly you look back at Nietzsche or any of these people who've kind of done, well, okay, some bad things, but also some good things. And if you just wanted to study them to find the wisdom and find the mistake, it's almost like, no, you're not allowed to learn the wisdom. But because there was a mistake, right?

I would definitely suggest not denying the wisdom or the transformation that you may have had. I've even said this, and this was the second time that that happened for me because I had another spiritual, a male spiritual guru, for lack of a better word, that was really, really influential for me. And I'd written about him in multiple books. And that path was life changing for me. That path was one of the most transformational paths of my life. Then very similar information about this dude came out right around the time I gave birth to my son, it was super triggering for me. But I remember even saying then to my husband, I said, listen, this guy's a horrible human for what he could have done, but I will not take away what that works meant to me.

There you go. That's so healthy.

That work changed me as a human, and it gave me a sense of the greatest spiritual awakening of my life. So I wouldn't ever change that. So you have to. It's rough, but that's why you don't want to make anybody a guru, because then you can't actually take the teachings because the teachings now are too associated with the teacher. I don't want anyone to call me their guru because God forbid one day I really vote a way that they don't vote now. They can't, you know, they can't love me or, you know, it's like, it's not about me. Let the teachings be the teachings. And if you don't like the way I dress or you don't like the way I vote, who cares? The work is there to serve you.

That's so beautifully put. So maybe if you're listening to the show and you're like, I hate that person because they did X, well, hey, maybe there was something you could find that was a value in there and you don't have to throw it out. And I've seen this over and over. Even if you go to India, you'll find there's stuff like that almost everywhere. There's very few people who are completely pure through and through and have never made a mistake and sometimes have done things where you're going, how the hell could they do that? Well, it's because there's different sides of people. Even semi enlightened people, they do whatever they do when the lights are off and we just don't know. Okay, I accept that and I actually share that perspective with you, which is why I thought it'd be fun to talk with you. I wrote Game Changers, my book, because I'm like, what if 500 gurus, and they're not all guru types, but leaders who've done big things. What if we looked at what they all agreed on so we could kind of throw out the outliers and the things that maybe didn't make sense? Because then instead of following a guru and like, you don't call me a guru. It's. It's not a good place to be. It's bad for your ego if you're the person who's being called A guru, anyway. But I'm like, what would happen if we just kind of summed all that up? And for me, it was transformative to write the book because I had to study all this stuff and be like, oh, why do these guys disagree? Why do they agree? And then just to boil it down, what you did here, though, with your Audible Original, and I'm calling it that because it's not really a book, because it's an audiobook, only that's not a printed book. So that's.

It will be a printed book in a year.

I will print it.

Yep.

Oh, awesome. All right. I'm thinking about doing an Audible book as well, which. There isn't the right language yet in the world to say. I recorded something that wasn't a podcast and it wasn't a documentary and it wasn't a video, and it's going to be a book. So whatever you call that, we'll call it Audible Original now.

Yeah.

Did you retitle that to youo Are the Guru? That was part of your experience with the guru who will say let you down? Yes, actually, that was a retitling. All right.

Yes.

And you talked about moving through difficult times with certainty and faith, and I wanted to zoom in on those words with you because right now, most people listening would tell you this is the most uncertain time in history. Whether they're all wrong. World War II.

I think they're wrong.

World War II was uncertain. Okay. There's bombs falling. I don't know if I'll be alive tomorrow. Okay. Someone might sneeze. But you have a 98% chance of living.

Right. And you absolutely can stay in your house. Exactly. You're not.

Oh, and Amazon will still deliver if you can afford them.

That's a very, very good point.

It's bad, but it's not that bad. But we feel this incredible lack of uncertainty. So how do you turn on certainty when it doesn't feel like that's real?

Well, you don't turn certainty on. You ground yourself in a spiritual condition of your own understanding. When we develop a faith of our own understanding, and I always say it doesn't matter what you call it, it's all that matters is that you call upon it and you develop a sense of trusting in. Whether you call it a higher power, whether you call it God, whether you call it the universe, whether you call it my intuition, my own intuition, just as we were speaking about before. Intuition, inner guidance system, inner wisdom. But developing a faith in a wisdom beyond the fears of the world, a wisdom beyond the logic and reason. A wisdom that is based on spiritual solutions rather than problems, a wisdom that is based on creative solutions, it's a surrendered state, truly. And it's a way of living that requires of you to really set aside the practical and to really set aside the logic. And it's not saying in any way, shape or form that we ignore the realities of the world. That's not at all what I'm saying. I don't live like that at all. But I maintain and sustain a belief system that is open to creative possibilities, trusting that obstacles can be opportunities and even trusting that those obstacles can be often detours in the right direction. So it's just a different way of living. I mean, we live in a way where we're thinking about things only with our physical sight. But when we start to develop a spiritual sight, a vision beyond what it is that we can actually see. I know I'm speaking in really esoteric phrases, so I want to really bring it down to a grounded way. But think about it this way, if you can. Instead, let's say you're struggling right now because you lost your job. Every single day you wake up and you're just constantly in this mantra, I can't get a job, can't get a job, can't get a job. I'm in lack of. So many people are unemployed. How could I even find a job? We all know that we in that energetic state are not feeling very good. You're in a pretty resistant, low vibe place. That energy of resistance is going to create more resistance in your life. Imagine, though, you wake up and you just started to say and affirm to yourself, yeah, I don't have my job, but I'm open to creative possibilities. I'm open to creative solutions. Even the subtle shift of the openness, the willingness to see through a creative lens is going to shift your energy. It's going to change your attitude, and it's actually going to open up your consciousness to receive new information. So what will happen is maybe that day you otherwise would have been in a shitty mood and you wouldn't have played this podcast right now. But then you were in a better mood because you were open to creative possibilities. You started your day with a different attitude and you're cooking your breakfast and you're drinking your bulletproof and you're like, let me go listen to Dave. And then you hear this podcast or you hear any one of your podcasts, and there's something on that podcast that gives you a spark of inspiration and that Spark of inspiration gives you another idea. And that idea leads you to send your resume to somebody who just said that they needed a new so and so.

Right?

So it's a ripple effect of really expanding your consciousness beyond the limitation and opening up to possibility and more. When we speak of possibility, that's when I speak of spirit, that's when I speak of the universe. Because that is an abundant flow of possibility that is available to us even in the most uncertain times.

I feel like certainty or uncertainty are just code words for fear.

Yeah, totally.

Okay. Now, in my view of the world, being a Silicon Valley guy, what a feeling of fear does is it tightens up your firewall. So anything that comes in will be repelled, right? And a few things will get through, but they're usually things that are useful for detecting a threat and then countering it, but things that are useful for getting a new job, finding a new love, you know, doing the things that you actually want, those are specifically excluded by fear. So it's not that you chose not to do them, it's that you cannot see them because that firewall repelled them from your consciousness. So even though your eyes got the photons, your brain didn't get the message because it was safe, safe, safe, safe.

You have to be safe enough to receive that kind of inspiration, right? So when just to really piggyback off what you're saying, because I know there's a question coming, but I want to really add to what you're saying. When we are in that hyper vigilant state and the amygdala's alarm system is constantly going off, we absolutely are not in a vibrational state. This is my language now. We are not in a vibrational state to receive inspiration. We are in a place of resistance. We are in a place. And just exactly to your point, what you see cannot be received as even possibility, right?

I can't receive it, I can't see it. It's not there yet. It could be there. So there's some kind of a. And you said you can't turn on certainty. But you talk about trust and you talk about openness. So if someone's sitting here going, okay, I don't feel trust right now because no matter who I vote for, I'm screwed. Which is a common belief right now, and I don't have a job right now. And this other list of internal things that are actually mostly not true statements, they're beliefs that, that we assume to be true, so they become a part of our reality. Is there a breathing Exercise? Is there some weird esoteric dance you do? How do you go into a state of trust if you're genuinely not feeling it based on what you see?

I lived for 39 years of my life in a place of hypervigilance and lack of trust. I am 40, almost 41 now, so it was most of my life. Yes, I know. I'm a survivor of childhood trauma. So PTSD will destroy your nervous system until you can claim your trust in your life back. So for me, yes, these practices that have saved my life originated with a spiritual foundation, which was the willingness to. To become new, the desire to be led, and the openness to the grace of God that would lead me to the next right doctor and therapist and teacher and whoever you may want to refer to. And so what helped me get back into a place of trust was not just prayer and meditation, but radical transformational spiritual and psychological practices such as emdr, which I think is something that I want to talk about as much as we can here. So we can really help people today that are feeling unsafe, somatic experiencing, ifs internal family systems. I mean, I practice these practices regularly. I practice and teach eft Emotional freedom technique. We can even tap on the show today. There's so much work out there that can help with self regulation. And what's happening right now is that, number one, everyone's traumas are getting kicked up because we feel out of control. In addition, people who maybe thought they'd never lived with trauma are actually experiencing a trauma in this moment because it's a collective trauma. It's a collective trauma. Now, if you're listening to bulletproof radio, then you're going to get out of this, okay? Because even if you're just listening right now, there's a willingness to grow. There's a willingness to grow. And so this can be a time, and I keep saying this, this is either a time of one of two things. One, we're going to numb out, eat the non bulletproof chocolate and drink the coffee with the real sugar and whatever, or we are going to wake up. And sometimes when we have the privilege of being uncomfortable enough, that's when we crack open to the possibility of what can be.

Yeah.

So the getting back to safety can start with a prayer. It has to be better than this. And that prayer cracks open your consciousness to listen to this podcast today. And on this podcast you hear about somatic experiencing, whatever it might be. Right? So you see how I'm talking about how one thing leads to the next. And that's all Spirituality.

To me, that list of things you talked about, you talked about emdr, somatic. I'm reading from my list here. Internal family systems, all things. I have done all of those things on my path. And I want people who are listening to know that stuff. So, you know, here you are, you know, attractive. Gabby Bernstein, Spiritual non guru. Here's the thing. It doesn't matter what your background is. If you're feeling that uncertainty and things like that, you have stuff in there that's going to be invisible to you. And those are some incredible tools. And I do want to go deeper with you on those tools after we. We talk a little bit more about a surrender. But I want to acknowledge that you said that. I want to call people's attention to that, because those weird things that make zero intellectual sense are incredibly valuable tools. And they don't have to make sense. They're about feelings, not about thoughts.

And in fact, the more you apply them and practice them, that is the only thing that makes sense. Yeah, you start, you know, and also when you even start to unpack the neuroscience behind some of these techniques, it makes a lot of sense.

It really does. Right?

It makes a lot of sense. Just really opening up your ability to be safer in your nervous system because of the changes in your brain. So we can talk about all that.

Yeah.

Okay, let's talk about surrender.

We're going to go deep on some of those technologies and techniques and things like that. But you said another word here that could be triggering for people, and it was surrender.

It is triggering. That is the most triggering. It's funny. I wrote this book called Super Attractor, and it's methods for manifesting a life beyond your wildest dreams. And I mean it. And it works. It works. And people would come to my book tour and they were like, show me the manifesting methods. You know, like, give me the tricks, Gabby. Right. And when I get to this part about how surrender is the key to manifesting, everyone in the room would go, right, and nobody wants to let go. No one wants to surrender. But frankly, surrender is the key.

What is surrender? And I know what I think it is, but for someone who's listening, who doesn't know what surrender is at a visceral level, just at a cognitive level, what does it look like? What does it feel like? How do you do?

Surrendering to me means that we forget what we think we need. We start rather than praying for an outcome or hoping for an outcome or obsessing about an outcome. The shift is to pray for the highest Good for all. And really, even that simple adjustment is a radical act of surrender. It's a radical act of surrender because every day we wake up and we're like, okay, actually, I'm not in this place anymore. I want to really, really drive home that what I teach works. Okay? And what you teach works and what, you know, the practices that we're speaking about here work because I don't wake up anymore thinking about the future. I don't wake up anymore worrying about the how to. I don't wake up anymore. And it doesn't matter how successful you get or how, you know, great your family is or whatever, you can still wake up with that loop of the when I haves, right, and the controlling behavior. So it doesn't matter. You know, you can say, oh, that's easy for you and Gabby. You seem happy in your life. No, no, no. I've lived many years with a lot of outside successes, but very unhappy in my life because I was still in a clingy way. When we learn and practice and embody what it means to give over, it's not a giving up, it's a giving over, okay? And sometimes giving over is requiring of you to let go of the ideas of what you think things should be and how you think things should be and when you think things need to come into form. And often our expectations of what things should look like are actually very limited in comparison to what they can be. So welcoming in a practice of surrender really can begin by simply shifting from what you think you need to that intention every single day. So I know I want this thing. I know I want to change. I know I want this health. I know I want this outcome, and I want it. And it's okay to want it, but I also turn it over and I pray for what's of the highest good for all. Because when I do that, maybe there's something better coming. Maybe there's something better coming.

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It's. It sounds weird, but that is exactly the, the path as far as I understand. I mean, we've, we've come to our, our awareness via different paths to get there. When I'm meditating or whatever else the other practices I have, I usually say I'm grateful that things happen the way they're supposed to happen.

100%. You're saying the same thing. We're saying the same thing.

It's similar, right? It's also on its face, flat out stupid. As a computer science guy, I have no actual evidence that things happen like they're supposed to happen. And I have no direct knowledge of some overarching intelligence that says that this is how it's supposed to happen. I do have some thoughts and some things around how there is an emergent algorithm that's a distributed system that I could go down with. And I can also at the Same time be like, yeah, I was doing that drumming ceremony and I saw these things. Maybe I did meet God, who knows, right? Because you can't know. That's the idea, is that it's ineffable. There aren't words for that stuff, but. But it's got a feeling to it. But I say that and I practice the sensation of gratitude for things happening for the right reason. Because even if I'm wrong, that sense of self deception that I might be turning on is still valuable and useful. So no matter what, I win. Even if it's all bs, I win. And if it's not bs, which I think is true, I win.

Well, let me help you see how it's not bs. Okay, so I write in Super Attractor that it's good to feel good. So you know very well that when the greatest things that have come in your life, inventions, butter in your coffee, whatever it was, was something that came out of a sense of feeling good. Sometimes maybe it was, maybe you were feeling bad, but then you got on a kick to get better. Right. And so it was in the space of feeling good. Inspiration, intuition, being in a high vibrational state is when the greatest things in our life start to occur.

Absolutely.

And it's when things fall into place. So even being in a place of trying to control something that we want doesn't feel good. It feels like shit. And this is what I call a manic manifestor. So that manic manifester is just strangling their dreams. That doesn't feel good. In that state of not feeling good, you deflect opportunity, you deflect the inspiration. We get back into what we were talking about with the fear and the uncertainty and how you can actually even see what's possible. So it's really simple by you playing that game of saying, I'm going to focus on gratitude rather than what I don't have, actually just puts you back into an energy of gratitude and an energy of feeling good. And then you become more of a magnet for what it is that you want want, rather than a magnet for what you don't want. It's that simple. So that's where surrender, that's the value of surrender. It allows you to feel better, gives you relief.

Yeah. It is actually less work and less pain to be in that state than far less pain in the state that you and I were both in. You were successful though, when you were feeling a lot of pain and struggle, right?

I was successful in the areas of my life that I didn't have any Disbelief.

Right.

So you can have success in certain areas. I always had career success because it was where I was most inspired. It was where I was most excited. It was where I was most deeply moved, actually, in many cases and throughout my life, it was the place that actually saved me because there was so much else going on in other areas of my life that were so difficult that thank God, I had this successful, not even the successful career, but a career that was healing me as I was helping to serve others. And by writing these books or getting on a stage, I would borrow the benefits of reiterating and really putting out again and again and again the same message, because it was something I was living for myself. But in that same period of time, I might have been struggling physically with inflammation or gut conditions or PTSD symptoms. So it's not that you can't have good experiences while you're going through tough stuff. It's not that you can't have good times. But there is a way of living that is far better than the way that many of us have lived.

You talk about sutras. There's six sutras in your audible book. And what is a sutra for people who don't know what sutras are and why are the things you have sutras versus the big sutras that we've all heard about.

I refer to them as messages in the book, but they're similar to sutras in that they're simplified messages that you can take with you even saying them out loud. I choose to see creative possibilities. I welcome creative solutions. Saying I see through the lens of love. Saying these messages out loud, similar to a sutra can have a benefit just with the phrase. And a sutra was a common phrase that you could memorize. And often when a sutra was used was when people couldn't read so they could memorize that concept so that it could become a guidepost, a prayer to return to, or an affirmation. I'm just using my words. But it's a foundational belief system that gives a sense of inspiration. So the sutras, the messages in this book can be very related to the type of ways that sutras would be used.

The first sutra, see through the lens of love. You just mentioned the first one in your book. And help me understand. Okay, I'm going to put on my I've been there kind of situation where I used to weld Toyota truck frames for a living. I put auto parts in boxes and I scooped ice cream at various times in my life. Bet you guys didn't know that, did you? All right. So when I go back to those times in my life and I say, all right, things are a little bit desperate and I'm feeling lonely, and all of the things that we go through as we evolve as people, what do you do to see through the lens of love? You're like, I think I'm going to make it to my next paycheck as long as I don't mind eating beans for a couple weekends. And I'm not feeling a lot of love right now, and I'm not feeling a lot of success or safety. What's the way to see that through the lens of love?

Totally. I always say that when we focus on what's thriving, we create more of what we want. So if you're in a situation, particularly a situation where you feel very desperate, is the absolute time to rely on these messages more than ever. Really, when things are working out, they're highly beneficial as well. But when stuff is really tough, that's when changing your perspective can redirect the course of your life. So I've had many instances where. Let me just give you an example where I've been on the phone. Even about a few months ago, I was on the phone with a woman who was doing customer service at Zara, and I was calling because something I ordered for my son was the wrong size. And, you know, I don't love. No one loves getting on a customer service call to get a refund or whatever. It's just annoying. This woman was so excellent with the energy that she extended through the phone. Was so positive, generous, kind. She changed my entire day.

Wow.

At the end of the call, I said to her, I know you're being recorded right now, but my name is Gabby Bernstein. My website's Gabby Bernstein dot com. If you're ever looking for a customer service job, you have to reach out, because I think you are fantastic. And if that woman ever reached out, I will hire her. Yeah, I will hire her. I don't know if she took me seriously, but I 100% will hire her. And so. And I really, really mean that. So it's. It's. You may be in a situation where you're in a job that you hate, right? Or you are unemployed, but when you focus on what's thriving, you create more of what you want. So even if you're like, well, nothing's thriving, well, maybe you have a roof over your head right now and nothing's thriving, Gabby, but actually, you have something to eat this morning. Nothing's thriving, Gabby. Well, you're Listening to this fucking podcast, right? You have some form of Internet, right? So it's not like it's easy. Sure, it's a lot easier to do, but it's not. Let me tell you something. It's not that easy for. For, you know, celebrity rich people either, right? It's probably, in some cases, even harder to focus on what's thriving.

People have no idea. I mean, you and I both know enough. Very highly successful people. A lot of them are so miserable and so afraid. Some of the most miserable people I know.

Some of the most miserable people I know, so. And some of the happiest people I know are those who just. Just have whatever they need to get by. So I am in no way wanting to minimize the terror and the fear of what it could be to go through this pandemic without the resources that you need. I don't want to minimize that, but I do not want to reinforce the resistance. I want to inspire the shift. Because when we make that shift, that's truly when invisible doors open for us.

It feels to me like when I do turn on that lens of love, and I generally am there, I would say 90% of the time. I mean, people get pissed off and kind of forget it. Certainly I do. But it actually creates that feeling of safety. We're like, oh, yeah, even though there's X, there's a lot of good stuff and people are worthy and people want to help and all those good things. But if you forget that lens, you. Those exact same people can look like people who want to harm or want to take from you or whatever else. It's always the same set of actual facts, but it's all just the interpretation. And so you're suggesting, at least my interpretation of that first sutra or first message in your book is you get to choose how you interpret it. And that lens of love is the.

Way to do also is about interconnectedness and recognizing, seeing yourself and other people, really giving yourself permission to step outside your programming.

Yeah, yeah, there you go.

And say, hey, what would I be doing if all the. I'm the mother of a little boy. How would I be acting if I saw the white boys being shot in the streets? What would I be out there? That is that. That thinking, that willingness to see through that lens of interconnectedness, recognizing myself as a mother and every other mother as me, to give me a far greater sense of awareness of who I want to be in the world.

Okay, I like that. Your second one, Surrender to creative solutions. There's the surrender word again. But I've never heard of surrendering to creative creativity or to creative solutions. Why do you have to surrender to them versus seek them out or find them?

Well, when you're in a state of fear or uncertainty, We've said this over and over now, you can't find the creative solution because you're controlling. You're trying to manipulate the situation. You're obsessing about what's not working. That's where we need the surrender. Because you can't invite in a creative solution through force. You have to allow it to come through a state of freedom. So when we pause through a meditation or through an intentional prayer, or even saying out loud, I surrender to creative solutions. Even just saying that out loud is affirming that you are letting go of your control and allowing something else to come through. We've unpacked surrender already. And that's where this whole message comes in. When we surrender, we get out of the way so that we can allow a solution beyond our logical mind to come forward. We can't do that unless we step aside. Kat, step aside.

Okay. And that's why the surrendering happens. My experience definitely matches that. Some of the creative solutions I come up with are just. It feels like I'm getting out of the way. And Bulletproof won the Forbes Top 20 Most Innovative Brands award a couple years ago, which was unexpected and really cool. So I'm going to say, based on external factors, we're at least in the top 10% there. But a lot of that, just like you're saying, the creativity, it isn't forced. You can't force creativity. You. You stop and you relax and you think about something else. And it comes. But things don't come when you're not surrendered. If you're armored up and seeking and questing, it's harder to find than letting it come to you. For lack of a better word.

You are exactly right. You can't force creativity. Creativity is a force. It's its own force that's ready to move through. Through you when you get aligned with it.

I really like that. And it flies in the face of all the linear Western rationalist things. However, even in those domains, you look at Steve Jobs. Oh, yeah. I kind of dropped acid to help me figure out what I was doing. There was a spiritual side, and there always has been. To the great tech innovations of the last couple hundred years and probably before that, we just have less of a division between rational thought and between the spiritual side. You go back to the alchemists four or five hundred years Ago, they couldn't tell the difference between science and nature, and now we feel like there's a difference. Do you feel like they're coming back together again now?

Yes.

Why do you think that's happening?

I think that when everything falls apart, people come back to what they know to be true in their course and their center. I think that. I believe that all humans have the same desire. They want to be loved and give love. That is the core desire within every human. We just forget. We forget because of our upbringing. We forget because people forget because they had racist parents, or they forget because they grew up in poverty, or they forget because they were taught that they were better than others. They forget because. Whatever. Whatever. Whatever.

Right?

When we have our comfort and systems dismantled like we have recently, we're left with ourselves. That's when we can either wake up to the truth or we can stay numb and stay stuck. I think a lot of people are waking up and saying, there has to be a better way. There has to be a better way. As it relates to innovation and spirituality. I also think that people are realizing the negative effects of stress more than they ever have before. You speak about this a lot and how that stress is actually not only a physical issue and creates a lot of physical issues, but also a block to success. And I think that when people see meditation as a pathway to a more successful career, maybe a launchpad for them, maybe a starting point, that's great. However. However. It can happen however people get there.

You're talking about stress. How old's your son?

He's 20 months. 20 months, almost two years.

Oh, my goodness. That's like the most fun age.

That's also so fun. Oh, by the way, I gave him a bite of the bulletproof bar the other day, and he was like, literally, like, mauling it. And I think about you sometimes when I pour butter on his food, I'm like, well, Dave says it's a good idea. It's good for his brain.

It so is at that age.

I remember that in your kid's book about feeding your kid pounds of butter. And I was like, yeah, it's good for the brain. Anyway, sorry.

I look at all of the other stress that kids are going through everywhere, right? Oftentimes a little bit more than 20 months old, but even then, and it feels like there's a lot going on there. What could parents do with the rules from you are your own guru or the messages, not rules. But what can they do with those things specifically for kids to reduce stress, either as a Parent or for a kid.

Yeah, there's a lot from this, but I also want to just give the most important reference for all parents, and that's Dan Siegel. I'm not sure if you've done any of his work, but it's the most profound work about really understanding the child's brain. The whole brain child is a must read for all parents, Dan. You can record my voice saying that and repeat it over and over and over again because it is. And you should have him on the podcast. I really think you should. I mean, he is profound, if you haven't already.

I think I've had him on. I'm 99% sure. And he was at the. I think he was at the last biohacking conference, if I'm probably. Probably seven conferences. So which dates get scrambled in my head. Right.

Yeah. Dan's also written a book called no Drama Discipline, which I would highly recommend right now, and Trauma Proofing youg Kids by Peter Levine, who's the founder of Somatic Experiencing. So let's put all these in the show notes. Those three books are must reads for all parents living through this pandemic with their children.

In the show notes.

We're doing that most importantly, because what happens is that your child can be taught resilience through your ability to connect to their big feelings and emotions. But when we disregard a child's big feelings and emotions and just try to focus, force them into problem solving, we create a attachment breach. We unconsciously say to them, f you, your feelings don't matter. Shushing a child and saying, you're fine, you're fine, you're fine is literally like giving a kid a middle finger. And it's extremely disruptive, particularly when a child is going through such big upheaval as what they're experiencing right now in the world. So our work is. And there's another one called hold you'd children close, or hold you'd kids close by Gabor Mate, who was just great.

The other guy, Dan Brown, whose work on attachment. Dan was just on. And also I found it. Dan Siegel's on episode 587.

You found it?

Yeah. I knew that. I'd interviewed him. And he. He was at the sixth, not the seventh, conference, where he was on the main stage. And you're gonna be on the main stage on our virtual conference this year, which is really cool. So I love it that you're bringing up his work, even though you probably didn't know that he'd been a fellow speaker at the biohacking conference.

There you go.

So thank you, by the way, for sending people to the world's best. Dan Siegel's work is profound.

Yeah, it is.

And so for parents, you're listening to this stuff. All of the biohacking applies doubly to kids. Cause the ROI on doing something right when you're 20 months or 1 year or 5 years, the ROI is 10 times higher than doing it when you're 20 or 30. So healing a 30 year old is possible. Right. It just takes work. Physical healing, hormonal healing, or emotional spiritual healing. But just doing it, it takes so much less when it's a child.

Right. If you can get it right for your kids, you can save them a lifetime of therapy and you can save them a lifetime of, of addiction and ptsd. And it's not that I can control what happens to Oliver, my son, but what I can control is how he learns to process his feelings. And I can't control it, but I can affect it. I can support how he learns to process feelings and emotions. And so we have a big phrase in our house. We love your big feelings. Show us those big feelings. And then really, the simplest thing I've learned from Dan's work is connect and redirect. You can't say a child from 0 to 25, their brain is not fully developed. So the lower part of their brain is where they live most of the time, and particularly the younger guys. And they can't get into that low brain, into the upper brain for problem solving that fast. They can't just switch like that. They can't. They just physically, their brain cannot do it. So you have to connect with the lower brain before you can redirect with the logical part of the brain. So I'm not going to. I could go on an entire podcast on this content. But let's send them to the books. They're out.

Yeah, those are great books. And there's one exercise that actually adults can use that I've used with my kids that I think I vetted it with Dan, but it didn't come from him. My daughter was just freaking out. She must have been five or six or something. I don't know what's going on. And I'm like, oh, you're having feelings. Really? I said, can you draw your feelings? And she's artistic. So she comes home and she draws this red ball with a black dot or whatever it was, and she's, oh, this feels so much better. So that idea of creating a lens. So the way that I generalize that if I'm talking with adults is like if you're feeling freaked out, what does it actually look like? Not the world around you, but what does it look like inside you? Where in the body is it? And this comes from the neurofeedback training that I do at 40 years of Zen. Because a big portion of what that 40 years of Zen program is at least the first three of the five days before we get into the performance tuning it is around identifying patterns that don't serve you. It's easier with a computer and then going into this reset mode so that you can go through a defined process that we have where the computer helps you. And then you say, ah, I'm going to turn that off. Right. And I'm going to cancel out this thing so it doesn't keep triggering you. And that should sound like another kind of technology that you already mentioned your list of stuff you've done.

Emdr. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You read my mind good. That's one of the other abilities that you've developed, right? Mind reading?

Yes, mind reading.

So tell me about your experience with EMDR and then I'll share one of mine.

So freaking life changing. So EMDR really expands our window of tolerance. It gives us the. And it opens up our brain's capacity to reprocess. Because when you hold a, in my case, I do it with buzzers or you can have little vibrator things, little vibrating buzzers in either hand. So it go right, left, right, left, right, left. You can do it by tapping your shoulder. Right, left, right, left. You can do it with somebody moving their hand back and their finger back and forth. Your eyes are moving. And EMDR stands for eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing. So when you practice emdr, what's happening is it's stimulating this bilateral brain functioning which really opens up your brain's window and capacity. And window of tolerance is what it's called to regulate past locked up emotional distress and memory and trauma. And it can be something like trauma with a big T, like childhood sexual abuse, or it can be trauma with a small T, like I was on a plane that almost crashed. Or that's actually a big T trauma. But let's say a trauma with a small T of I was bullied in the playground and I want to clean it up right now. Again, that could have been trauma with a big T2 we'll find a small T trauma. I think all trauma is a little big. But there's little things in our life that somebody called me stupid Or I saw this thing on the news that really freaked me out.

Either it hurt or it didn't. But if it landed, it doesn't matter how small it seems, doesn't matter how big or small. If it left a mark, it was trauma.

Yeah. Emdr. I've been practicing for six years. It's been a major part of my trauma recovery. And it has given me tremendous freedom and emotional freedom. I have my own buzzers. So I'm at the stage now where I don't think that this is something that's recommended to do without a practitioner, but I'm definitely, for myself, safe enough to do it on my own. So I buzz when I'm activated or whatever. But it's changed my neural pathways. And it's interesting when you think about neuroplasticity, we really have the capacity to adjust our brain. And I'm living it right now. I'm living it right now. I'm experiencing the full blown experience of seeing myself in situations that once used to activate and trigger the you know what out of me. And now I'm like, okay, okay, there it is.

Okay, it loses its weight, right?

Yes. And it's an interesting thing because I also really have had the benefit and the privilege of practicing EMDR while simultaneously working with ifs. And IFS is internal family systems, invented by Richard Schwartz, who's an unbelievable guy. And Dr. Richard Schwartz really invented this kind of concept that we're all multiples, that we are all.

Walk me through an IFS session like a typical one, because a lot of people listening have never heard of ifs.

Sure. So first, just to unpack ifs, it's internal family systems. And Dick Schwartz was a family therapist. And he then was working at one point in a clinic with women who had bulimia. And I believe what happened was he started noticing them talking about these different parts of themselves, like the part of me that wants to binge and then the part of me that wants to hide. And then he also started to notice that when they would get to a calm place in the session, there was a realm where they could resource themselves. It was like what he calls the self with the big S. And I was calling it inner wisdom or inner guidance system, but the part of ourselves that that can be the carer that really can take care of all these other parts. And the concept is that we have. They're all multiples. That multiple personality disorder is not a disorder. We all have it. Just some people got so blown out to the point where they believe they're different people because of such a traumatized event that they got so blown out that they actually did separate and can go into different personalities. But the concept being that we have lots of different parts, right? So I've got the 10 year old who sometimes freaks out. My 10 year old wants to freak out. I've got knives out. I've named my parts Knives out. When I feel like someone's attacking me, knives out. I'm going to attack back. I've got the self part of me that is the loving part of me that can bring all the other parts back to safety. That self to me is resembled by me holding my son. If I see an image of myself holding my son, I see that that's the same way I can care for myself. So in an IFS session, it begins with really getting to know your parts. So your therapist would work with you to notice how you're feeling and start to describe your feelings in your body. And there's three different parts. There's the protector parts, there's the exiles, and there's the firefighters. So the protector part is knives out. Right? You know, you mess with me, I'm gonna mess back with you. Right? The firefighter is the part of somebody who's like, oh my God, I can't feel that. Let me go pick up a drink right now. The addict, like, let me go put the fire out with whatever addiction I have. Right? And then the exile is the part of us, the shame of being abused as a child, that shameful part, or the exile is the kid who was overweight, that I never want to see, that I never want to touch that feeling ever again. Right? So we've exiled these parts of ourselves. And the protectors are the parts that just manage. They're just managing all day long, keeping down those feelings of those exiled parts. So it's getting to know those parts. And so the therapist would ask you or whoever's in the room, would the protector step aside so I can hear from this other part? And for so many years, I'd be like, who the hell am I stepping aside for? You know?

Right.

But then I've had experiences in IFS where I've actually become the part. It's trippy, Dave. Okay. I've been like, all of a sudden I'm like this like, terrified little girl and I'm speaking differently. It's crazy what can happen. You can just. Your whole physicality can change.

Everyone has those parts in there. The problem is that it takes a certain degree of surrender in order to be able to allow one of them to come forward. And I mentioned I've done ifs work and all that. And you're like, wow, there really is that kid who was bullied and the overweight kid. And there are components of your personality and for you to have awareness, which one, which one is stepping forward, which one is. What's the ratio? What's the mix of these things? So if you're a mixologist at a bar, how much of which ingredient you have in there, there's always some of everything in there. And when you're fully put together, you're operating the way you want to and every now and then something pushes and all of a sudden you way over poured the vodka and you're like, why am I acting this way? So there's great value in that stuff. And, and these are things where if you're listening to this and you're 25 or something going, what? That sounds like BS. Look, this is not what Gabby's saying. This is not what I'm saying. These are based on huge amounts of research and huge amounts of research data. And it matches traditional Chinese medicine, it matches shamanic teachings, it matches ancient Gnostic knowledge from Christianity back in the days. So every great tradition has come come upon these in their own way, they have their own language, but this is actually the human condition. And I like it that you're just out there and talking about this.

I'm writing a book about my own trauma recovery and so I'm really in my. I mean, I'm just like nerding out and listening to listening and learning everywhere. But even though that's not out until 2022, I really want to have these conversations with people like you right now who have audiences like yours, because I want to even just slightly introduce these types of modalities so that people who are suffering know that there is relief. The same way you feel about neurofeedback, you're like, I want everybody to know about this because it's like you can have relief. One way to get that relief is even eft. It's like if you can't get an EMDR therapist, you can go on YouTube and do a Brad Yates video. An emotional freedom technique and tap along and tapping, similar to EMDR just unlocks that fight or flight and allows you to open up your window of tolerance.

Yeah, I've had a variety of people on about eft. I think Nick Ortner's been on. Let's see, Dawson Church has been on. I know I'm going to forget two or three other people who have talked about it at different episodes. But tapping is another technology. And my goal has always been to bring these advanced transpersonal derived, transpersonal psychology derived techniques into the world of biohacking. I didn't put them in at the very beginning just because I thought it would make people pretty much just say, this is crazy pants stuff. See, even light therapy was too much at the beginning of biohacking.

Not anymore.

So now we've got light therapy in there, we've got peptides, and it's time for the transpersonal stuff. And neurofeedback is certainly a part of that. Let me tell you about my EMDR experience because I think it's illuminating for people listening. Just so you guys understand, this is real stuff. Gabby is a very successful person. I'm doing all right as well. And so we have done this and are willing to talk about it. And for everyone in our situation, there's hundreds or thousands more who just do it and don't really mention it. I went to the therapist's office, but I was doing EMDR because they just. It's not public. So I primarily process my old traumas through neurofeedback and there aren't a lot of them left. But the problem is you don't know about them if they're hidden. You wouldn't think about it because it rationally doesn't make sense. So a few years ago, I had a major podcaster. Now probably the top podcaster in the world, came after my reputation for financial benefit. It went from one day, hey, Dave, thanks for bulletproof coffee. My brain works again. To Dave, you're a lying bastard. 25,000 bullies. Go destroy day of social media. And so I will tell you, it pushed buttons for me and I was really rocked. And I couldn't really figure out why, but all I knew is this isn't all right. And what it was, it took me about six months to figure this out. It was a sense of injustice where I did everything right. I was helping people, and now I'm getting punished and I didn't deserve it. And I had not had a chance to go do my 40 years of Zen stuff. But we had a great EMDR practitioner who used to be a hostage negotiator near us. So I said, I'm just going to try this. And I hadn't done a lot of EMDR before that. And in one session I sat down and she did the thing with your eyes where you move back and forth. And this situation from first grade Popped into my head. I told the teacher a kid was doing something destructive. He then told the teacher, no, I had done it. And then I get punished when I did the right thing. And it was that sense of just, like, first grade rage and then lack of safety. And like, this podcaster who was just trying to make a buck because he's an investor in a brand that tried to steal my work. And everyone knows who he is anyway. But anyway, it really pushed my buttons. And I was like, I was uncentered by this. And as soon as I recognized that during the session, I kind of saw it shrink in value and all that, or shrink in importance. Importance. And then I went and I followed that up now that I knew what to work on with some neurofeedback. And after that, I was like, wait a minute. Every time he says my name, I sell more coffee. Like, it doesn't matter that he says I'm a bad person. But, man, I couldn't see that for six months. I was like, my team's like, Dave, what's wrong? And I'm like, I just don't want to post anything right now. I'm just tired of all these bullies coming in. That was what EMDR did. It let me associate.

Little Dave was triggered.

Yeah, it's like my current. My feelings now were identical to first grade feelings, but I didn't know it. So that first grade pissed off thing was emerging, which I probably could have done. Some internal family systems, but that's biohacking. Like, that's what's the tool to turn off the emotion, the behavior that isn't serving you, that you didn't choose, and that feels like it's in charge when it's not supposed to be correct. So that was my story there.

But it's also important to recognize from an IFS perspective that there's no bad parts. So that First Grade Dave has had a really important role in your life. First Grade Dave might have been a driving force behind your business. And first grade, I like First Grade Dave. That's like, you could write a whole thing about First Grade Dave. But, like, First Grade Dave may have kept you safe at times when you felt like you were being attacked. And so it's about letting yourself really resolve and support First Grade Dave, but at the same time, not in any way shunning him and really welcoming him to the conversation, welcoming whatever he needs to feel heard and supported the same way you would with your kids. So really the same way a family system would work in terms of welcoming all the parts and not exiling any of them. A healthy family system. We would do that for little first grade Dave. So yeah, yeah. And the next thing for you, if you haven't done it, we'll get into this on another show. Probably is Somatic experiencing. Peter Levine. The se work is really rocking my world.

Oh yeah, you're working on it right now?

Oh yeah. I'm like studying all these things. I'm like in the trainings.

Nice. I'm excited when your next book comes out because your next book about trauma stuff. I just have to say, if you're like, I was the, the invulnerable, highly successful, super smart entrepreneur, I'm going to go take over the world and buy a fry or whatever. There is a 100% certainty that you have trauma that's driving your behavior and your motivation.

100% certainty.

And you're not supposed to see it. It is meant to be invisible. And it doesn't feel like it's doing anything harmful to you. In fact, it probably feels like your source of energy. And all of that is painful beyond belief. It's just all wrapped up in there. So once you kind of put the key in the lock and you have the right tools, techniques, the right support, the right people, the right belief systems, whatever else, magically everything gets easier. Like 10 times easier. And that was why I started the neurofeedback company. For me, that was the thing that moved the needle the most to make everything easier, faster. And that involves being vulnerable. In fact, it involves all six of the things that are in your brain book. Which is why I wanted you to come on now and talk about it. Because this is actually how you make it better, faster and easier. And it's by stopping being in your own way. And I thought you did just a fantastic job of pulling out six things that really stood out. And all of them are mushy sounding because they're sutras. But your explanations of them, I think are worthy. So just encouraging people like it's. It's an audible thing. Download it, listen to it.

It's called you are the guru. Pretty much you get it for free. Yep. When you're an audible listener, if you do the 30 day trial, you can get these. That's why I think you should do it. Because it's like a lot of people just. Just get it for free.

Yeah, I think I'm going to do an audible only book. I have to chat with my publisher and agent and all that because I have one that's like ready. But I don't know that it's quite a written book for me yet. So, guys, if you want me to do an audible audience only book, actually tell me on Instagram, send me a quick DM just like Dave.

Do the audible book. Yes. They're all going to say yes. Yes.

If they do, I'm just going to count. I'm going to count those and send them to my agent as evidence that I should do it. See, that's why I'm stacking the deck. All right, I want to ask you one more thing. For listeners, and you've talked about eft these tapping techniques, is there a specific, specific tapping sequence or something you should say when you're tapping that you think would be most useful for listeners or most useful for one of the messages in your book that you could teach us now?

Yeah, I'd like to give people two practices for feeling safe, because I think that a driving force right now is this feeling of uncertainty and being unsafe. So one tapping technique is there's this one point that's right between your pinky and your ring finger. And it's like that meaty little spot right there. Can you see what I'm doing, everybody? Okay, so tapping that point, that's the gamut point, otherwise known as like the holy shit point. Like, you know, you're on the plane and you're scared of, that the plane's gonna crash, or you're scared of spiders and there's the spider. So this is when you're feeling, feeling unsafe. This is your point. And you can tap this point and just breathe deeply. And on the inhale, let your diaphragm extend. And on the exhale, let it relax. And as you breathe in and out, you will just simply say to yourself out loud or just silently to yourself, I am safe. Breathing I am safe.

Say, I am safe. All right.

I am safe. Safe. You could do this for 10 minutes, 1 minute, 30 seconds. I am safe. Teach this to your kids. I am safe. This point, and the words and the breath will stimulate the vagus nerve, give you a whole new regulation. So beautiful. And you can just start to feel that safety come over you.

And it doesn't matter which hand, not at all.

And then, and then the other one is a hold. I think it's called like a jiuitsu hold or something. This is something I learned in the se work. It's your right hand over your heart, your left hand over your belly. And you just breathe in and again, breathing in through the diaphragm and exhaling out through your mouth or in through your nose and out through your mouth. And this is a hold I like to do when I'm meditating. I also do this hold while I'm scared before I go to sleep at night. And just. You can go back to that affirmation, that mantra, I am safe. Or you can just. Or you can just focus on your breath. Focus on the in breath and focus on the out breath and just really sit with this hold for a while, for as long as it feels like it's regulating you. And that hold in itself is really regulating. And then the breath is. The breath is the answer. The breath is the key to safety. And then if you feel ready, you can affirm it. I'm safe.

I am safe.

Yeah. Yeah. Two tools.

Awesome. So these sound like kind of soft spiritual things you do wearing white robes with candles. I'll just tell you, they work. And you don't need to have white robes and candles or rainbow, you know, unicorns or anything like that. It's. It's actually just techniques that talk to the body at a level the body understands. So I. I want you to. To suspend disbelief if you decide to do these things. I have seen the most hardcore Silicon Valley grizzled engineers who believe that we are meat robots do these kinds of exercises and literally burst into tears. So, like.

Well, what's happening also is, is it's stimulating the vagus nerve, which regulates your entire entire nervous system. So there is actually a biological thing happening. It's not just this. Woo, woo. Okay, what am I doing? There's something happening in your physical body and even in your brain. So it's important to accept that as well.

It is. Now, Gabby, your work in its total is@gabbyburnstein.com your newest book is on audible. You could just go to Audible and Google Gabby Bernstein and it'll show up, obviously. And I believe that it's worth your time to listen to that. Certainly if you think it's worth your time to listen to Bulletproof Radio, this is more detailed things. Gabby and I just spoke about the things that came to mind. We both prepped for the interview, but it was not the same as writing a whole book, which is thousands of hours. So if you got something out of an hour and change with us, I promise you that her audiobook will have a higher ROI than this episode just because of the prep time that went into it. The other thing that's going to have a huge ROI is the virtual biohacking conference, because you're listening to this a few days before it happens October 10th, and Gabby's going to be a featured speaker at the conference. She's going to have a new topic for you, so you'll get a lot of gab Gabby goodness this week. So if this show spoke to you, you need to go sign up for the Virtual Biohacking Conference. You'll also hear from Jay Shetty, Susie Batiz, Dr. Perlmutter, Mark Hyman, Maria Shriver, good friends, people who are teaching resilience in the world. And yes, I did name it. It's called how to Stay Bulletproof. When the fit hits the shan, there'll be breakout sessions, speaker meetups, abilities to actually interact with people, even a virtual tech hall to play with the toys. So I'm really excited to see you there.

The Human Upgrade, formerly Bulletproof Radio, was created and is hosted by Dave Asprey. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider carefully read all labels and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call or see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Bulletproof Media.