9BC Mini Episode: Exploring the Depths: Hyperbaric Oxygen Therapy & Unlocking Human Potential with Dr. Jason Sonners : 1060

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Formerly Bulletproof Radio. You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. This is a short, just a 15 minute or so episode where I'm going to talk with Dr. Jason Sonner's about hyperbaric oxygen therapy and my biohacking conference that's coming up here. It's going to be a major conference and I'm going deep with one of the speakers so that you understand the kind of things that you'll get to experience and learn when you come to the conference. Plus, you'll pick up something if you just listen to the episode. Dr. Jason Sonners, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me on, Dave. It's always a pleasure chatting with you.

Tell me about what you've done with scuba and why that applies to the world of hyperbaric oxygen.

You know, it's funny, I was doing hyperbaric oxygen for probably. Well, at this point, it's been about 17 years and I've been teaching a lot of these classes. And, you know, a couple of years ago I was like, you know, I've never really actually gone scuba diving. There's such a strong connection between scuba and, you know, the history of hyperbarics along with scuba diving. So I felt it was important for me to at least give it a shot. And so my oldest got certified myself, he's 12. So we got certified, we went out to Hawaii, did a little bit of diving. And then my wife got excited about it, so she jumped in, got certified in diving. And my middle son is now certified in diving. And now as like a family, we've been bopping around looking for places to go because, you know, it's actually a therapeutic benefit, I believe, to the scuba diving experience also. But it's pretty cool having a chance to be able to get underwater and kind of see what's going on under there and, and breathe, you know, breathe underwater, stay for long periods of time and experience that other world. Currently, a good friend of ours, Dr. Joe Dori, is underwater right now for a hundred days. And we're actually doing some research with him. He is. He just broke the, like, literally days ago. He just broke the record. So the record was 73 days. I think he's now at 75 days underwater. He's in a dry environment, but it's basically like a, a hyperbaric chamber underwater, more or less. And he's got about another 25 days left. And we're doing a bunch of research on him to see what the effects of extended periods of pressure are going to actually do to a human. So we're excited to see a lot of what's coming out of that.

What do you predict is going to happen there?

So, you know, it's an air only environment, so he's breathing 21% oxygen, but he's at 1.75 atmospheres, more or less. So we're looking at red blood cell count, we're looking at hemoglobin levels, we're looking at methylation, like DNA methylation, we're looking at telomeres, hormones. I mean, we're looking at tons of stuff. I think what we're going to find, I mean, this is obviously a, you know, not everybody can just jump underwater for 100 days and it's not like we can replicate this over and over again. But we also took multiple readings to see, you know, at different periods of time what changes are happening. I do believe we're going to see some actually increases in hormone levels. I don't know if we're going to actually get to telomeres or not, like if that's actually going to be a deep enough experience, but I'd be excited to see if it were. I definitely think we're going to see some changes in the DNA methylation panels, like the epigenetics. We should see a reduction in red blood cell count, actually, because the body should notice that it doesn't need as many red blood cells to carry the amount of oxygen that he's getting. So I think we're going to see decreases in hemoglobin, decreases in red blood cells, but increases in growth factors, increases in hormones, increasing in methylation panels, stuff like that, decreasing in inflammation, I believe. So it'll be really pretty cool to see.

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At the biohacking conference. Guys, that's June 22nd to 24th in Orlando and there are still passes available, but the preferred tickets are already sold out. We're going to have oxy health chambers on hand so you can actually experience hyperbaric. And funny enough, they go down to 1.7 atmospheres, I believe. Are those the 1.5s? The soft side ones?

The soft ones will go to 1.3 and then the hard chambers go to up to and a half atmosphere.

So depending, I've got a hard chamber, an oxy health hard chamber at home, so I can go down to 2.5, but the soft chambers I've had in Oxyhealth for 15 years and it makes a meaningful difference. And we've seen the studies from Israel that say hyperbaric treatments in higher atmospheres like the hard one made telomeres longer. And we've seen people using hyperbaric for wound healing and all that. And we've seen people using hypobaric sleeping in these oxygen deprived tents and even people changing their atmospheric pressure. By going to Colorado to ride their bikes and things. So we have this rich history of manipulating pressure, but no one's ever done this high pressure thing. So the big question is, are the benefits coming from going up and down? Is it the change in pressure that's creating the change, or is it being at pressure that's creating the change? And you're going to figure that out. What would you predict is the biggest variable there?

So the truth is, I mean, it's only been a couple of years where people have gotten outside the box of just the total dosage of oxygen alone and recognize things. Exactly. What you're saying is that this pressure changing component that's playing maybe as big, if not a bigger role. I'm doing another set of research right now out of our clinic and we're looking at comparing 1.3 to 2.0. We're going to look at things like inflammation, we're going to look at things like telomere length. We're going to look at the same methylation panels and hormone panels. Because I do believe, I mean, I've been doing this for a long time. We've used soft chambers for years, We've used hard chambers for years. It's, you know, it's not like we're not getting results using one versus the other. And so I do predict that there's going to be some similarities that we see. I think that ultimately it's likely that it would take longer if you had less pressure. But I still think we can, we could probably create very similar processes. The talk I'm going to do at the conference, I'm actually going to talk about this process of like, low oxygen levels, high oxygen levels, because there's, there's benefits, like you just said, there's benefits to hypoxia, but there's also consequences to hypoxia if you get too much of it. There's benefits of hyperoxia, which is what you get in a chamber, but there's consequences to too much hyperoxia too. And so is there this sort of magical formula for creating a wave of hypoxia and a wave of hyperoxia to ultimately get the benefits that like, you know, someone like yourself or myself are really looking for, you know, or for your audience for that matter. So, you know, I think that's really where most of the science is heading. You know, know, at least the stuff that I'm interested in.

It's, it's one of the things we're doing at upgrade labs and we're opening Franchises across the country. Now, I was just on the phone this morning with several franchisees, the guys here in Austin. There's Nashville, there's Meridian. So these are places that have technology to add or add or reduce oxygen for brief periods of time, but without pressure. And so it. It feels like with AI and with big data, that magic formula you're talking about, it's going to be easier than ever before. This is the last chapter of my last book. Just saying, we have enough data now, and now we have the ability to look at the data kind of like a human would, to find the patterns that maybe we wouldn't see. So I think we are going to, over the next five years, just realize that for this specific body, with this specific goal, here's the dose of hyperoxia, here's the dose of hypoxia, here's the ideal atmospheric pressure or lack thereof. And to be able to dial it in so that you might get profound results, maybe without em. It's been a hundred days at the bottom of the ocean, but frankly, I'm, you know, I'll go do that if it's gonna make me 20 years younger. Like, sign me up every quarter. Okay.

Every six months, twice a year, a hundred days.

Yeah.

You know, I'm excited also just to see. I. I think that the research that we're doing in our office right now, mixed with things like what we're gonna see with Joe going underwater, mixed with, you know, a lot of places outside the US Especially that are like, you know, really, I think taking the reins on some of this information, to your point, you know, there's probably a range that would be considered most likely helpful for virtually all humans. But then there's like the Dave version. You know, Dave, based on his, you know, stress levels, activity levels, past history, etc. Etc. Here's the Dave specific version. Here's the Jason specific version. And I agree with you, you know, working on creating mechanisms for developing those types of protocols, that's absolutely what we need to do for. For the future of this type of field.

I feel like Upgrade Labs is right there at the forefront of coming up with custom prescriptions for which technologies to use, in which order, for which biology to reach which goal. And that's the whole function of it, because I'm still a little resentful of the fact that I spent 702 hours over 18 months working out in the gym six days a week and still weighed 300 pounds. And maybe I could have done a better job there. And maybe. Maybe I should have spent half that time in a hyperbaric chamber and I would have gotten even way better results. And I could have just watched YouTube instead of sweating on a treadmill. Right? So I feel like there's so much we don't know, but that you're really there at the cutting edge. Which is why I wanted to have you speak at the conference.

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And I've got a question, because I know a lot of people listening, they haven't ever been in a hyperbaric chamber. And guys, you should come to the conference and you should feel what it's like. But how would you describe the experience of going into a hyperbaric chamber? What does it feel like to you?

Yeah, I mean, it's to me. You know, what I say to new patients coming into our office as an example is just, you know, the experience should be very comfortable. It should be very relaxing. You're virtually laying down on a mattress with a pillow. You know, the surroundings are typically very comfortable. You're virtually going to just hang out, potentially read most people take a nap. Honestly, the biggest thing to get over is really just the equalization of the pressure. So just like being in an airplane, you'll feel pressure changes primarily in your ears. And so you do need to know how to equalize that pressure via like a, you know, just a swallowing or a yawn. Some people will, you know, take water bottle and just, you know, take small sips as the pressure is changing just to help that equalization. You could also pinch your nose and blow like a Valsalva maneuver. Also equalizes your ears. It's really the only hang up. The only thing that would actually stop somebody from being able to have a successful treatment is the inability to equalize. So as long as you spend a few minutes, and I can count the number of people in 17 years that couldn't equalize on one hand, you know, so overwhelming majority of people can figure it out. And once you have that part down, that's it. The first five or six minutes of the treatment, you're equalizing your ears. The rest of the hour, 90 minutes, depending on how long you're doing, is really just, you know, relaxing and breathing. Sometimes we'll do a meditation in there, sometimes we'll do some breath work in there. You know, there's a lot of things you can do to help sort of maximize that that therapy. But it should be comfortable, it should be relaxing, and there should never be any pain inside the chamber or discomfort really. So I think most people get a little nervous looking at it initially, but by the end of their first session, they're like easy. Piece of cake. That was great.

Yeah, it's if people always say, but it looks so claustrophobic. But you get into one of the. Either the zip up oxy health or the metal one that I have, it's plenty spacious in there. You can sit up in the one I'VE got the other ones. There's enough room for two people if you like each other. So it's not.

Know each other well.

Yeah, it's not cramped and it's profoundly relaxing. And what I've suggested with people who've used my chamber over the years is, look, if you have a head cold, maybe you don't want to do it. Or you can take Guaifenesin or Mucinex, which makes your mucus more runny so it doesn't clog up your ears. Or you can use Afrin nasal spray. But if you can ride in an elevator to the top of a skyrise, it feels about like that when you come down and you sort of feel your ears pop a little bit or you drive through a high mountain pass or something. It's. It's well within most people's ability. Like you said, kind of one hand number of people couldn't do it. And after you've done it two or three times, you actually learn how to relax those tubes in your ears. At least for me, it's a conscious thing. I'm like, oh, I've got a pressure and I just do a thing and then they open up and then I can go up or down as fast as I want without any issue.

Exactly right.

I'm also a weird biohacker, so you probably have the same thing once.

Yeah. Once you spend enough time with it, it just becomes second nature for sure.

Yeah. Beautiful. You reminded me of something I've been studying for 25 years. What we'll call mental athletes do the thing that people can remember stuff. I've had a few of them on the show over the years. And the world's most prolific inventor, with the most patents to his name, believe it or not, is not a patent troll from Microsoft. He's a Japanese guy. And his invention protocol is to take a really deep breath, put on a weighted dive belt, go to the deep end of a 10 foot swimming pool, hold his breath at the bottom of the pool, sitting cross legged with a chalkboard that he invented. He could ride on under underwater. And he would do all of his best thinking while holding his breath for two minutes and writing things. And then he'd swim to the surface, take a breath and go back down. So he invented all of his stuff at pressure. He basically had a pool man's hyperbaric chamber. Right. How many feet of water does it take to equal that? 1.3 or 1.4 atmospheres you get in a soft chamber.

So a soft chamber is basically 10ft of water. There you go.

So the guy was putting himself in a hyperbaric chamber. And I would say, guys, if you have a chance to try out one of the oxy health chambers, and I do recommend oxy health because of the types of plastic they use and the coatings they put on there that keep you from getting industrial stuff you don't want. And a lot of the cheaper things, things out there have uncoated plastics that I don't think are particularly safe. So I like the oxyhealths. But if you were to go in there with your iPad or go in there just with a notepad and just do some deep thinking, you will find that your creativity is much higher. And if you maybe took some nootropics ahead of time, like, I don't know, nicotine, modafinil, methylene danger coffee, you're gonna have one of those times, like, damn, like, I just thought of something amazing. Do you notice that mental edge when you go in yours?

100%. I do. Like, the majority of writing that I do, whether it's for a new book that I'm coming out with or a lecture that I'm doing the most of the writing. I'll go in there with a notebook and I'll just sit there. I do some breath work also. All of a sudden, you know, the creativity starts to flow and we start making some notes and, you know, next thing I know, I'm like, you know, knee deep into my next project. But yeah, definitely, I love that.

All right, well, you guys heard it here first. You want to be a crazy inventor. Heck, you might as well just go all out, because in the type of chamber we're talking about, you can use electronics. You don't have to be naked in no metal kind of thing like in the old days. So you could go in there with a connected device that lets you access one of the AI chatbots and do your creative work and then fill in your gaps by asking AI. So now you've got hyperbaric assisted AI, Assisted human creativity, where literally most of the sum of human knowledge is available and you can query it and put it into your own brain and do it under pressure in a chamber. And man, I don't know, my brain can do stuff that I never, I never would have imagined. So I, I, I think this is the cutting edge of where it's going to happen.

I agree.

Well, I very much appreciate you coming on this short episode. We got to talk about some cool stuff, guys. As you can tell, we've got a top expert in hyperbaric therapy who's going to be speaking here. So Dr. Jason Saunders, thanks for coming on this short episode, guys. Go to biohackingconference.com and you can still get a GA pass. We've already sold out. A preferred GA will sell out. There's going to be almost 3,000 people there in Orlando, Florida June 22nd. You'll be able to learn from from Dr. Jason Sonners, from me, from dozens of other top experts, and you'll get to play with Oxy Health Chambers. This is just going to be the most fun that you'll have all year.

Looking forward to our Fireside Chat, Dave.

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey.

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