9BC Mini Episode: The Age Reversal Blueprint - Unlocking the Secrets of Functional Genomics for a Youthful, Vibrant Life! : 1062

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Formerly Bulletproof Radio. You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey. Our guest today is Kashif Khan, who is with the DNA company. I've been an advisor since the very, very early days of the DNA company and he's a multip times guest on the show because he's really helped to pioneer with his company how we look at your genome functionally, how to actually make use of the data in it. I was more than a little skeptical of all the DNA tests when they first came out. I was likely one of the first thousand people to get my whole genome sequence, but knowing it had a 2% greater risk of Alzheimer's disease or having more. More hair on my back or less hair on my back, which was the gene I got, was not actually something that changed my life. So when Cash came to me and said, dave, try what we've got at the DNA company, I said, all right, fine. And they came back with very actionable information. And since then he's built out an AI model and become a leader in the field of functional genomics. So Cash is speaking at the biohacking conference, which is happening June 22nd in Orlando. You can go to biohackingconference.com and he's going to talk about his brand new book, which is called the DNA Way, and he'll actually be doing a book signing there. So I thought I'd have him on for like maybe just a short episode to talk about functional genomics and reversing aging by 10 years, which is what he's done. Cash, welcome back, my friend.

Pleasure, man. Good to talk to you again.

All right, how long did it take you to reverse your biological age by 10 years?

So first of all, that wasn't even an intention. I didn't even know that was going to happen. So it wasn't very purposeful. Like I'm on this mission to be younger than myself. It was more of a byproduct of just doing everything right.

Exactly.

Yeah. And this is where a lot of what we see, you know, that's sort of sensational out there, is not practical. You're not going to do a lot of these things that you hear people doing. How do you just change your existing habits, what you're going to do anyway, which is eat, exercise. Exactly what you, you know, scream for the rooftops, make it easy. Right, like your new book. So that's what I did. And it took me, I would say, about two years, completely unintentional the same biological age testing that I did in the beginning, I thought, you know what, I never checked, I might as well check. And it was, the delta value was actually a 15 year difference. So when I started I was 38, and there was a 15 year difference between the two, but the total biological age drop of 10.

So how old are you?

Actually I'm 43 now.

43. All right, and when you did your first biological age, how old were you?

38. And like as of today, I'm 43 and my age is 33 internally, so there's a 15 year difference.

Okay, beautiful. So that's possible. And when people know what to do, it works better. And I know and you know, we've talked a lot about enhancing mitochondria. Seems to be a really good anti aging strategy. Telomeres probably matter. And there's five other things in, in my anti aging book, which is called Superhuman, that I identified as the seven pillars. I've seen another book with 12, another one with a seven, and two of them are slightly different. So we're still teasing out in the world of anti aging what are the things that actually matter the most. But what we do know matters unequivocally is your DNA and how it's aging. Because it either gets damaged and has mutation or it doesn't. So what do you look at with the DNA company that's, that's different than you would see with someone else? And how does it apply to aging?

So I think it's what you said, what's actionable, what genetics shouldn't be what people think it is, which is, hey, you have an 80% chance risk of breast cancer or Alzheimer's. Good luck. You know, let's just see what happens. That's kind of genetics right now what it should be is why did 20% with the exact same genetic profile not get it? What did they do? Right, right. And let's learn their habits. And so all we're doing with the genome is trying to identify what job does your body not do. Well, here's all these biological functions. Let's start to learn biology, like understand how this thing works that we walk around in. And if I know this thing, this part, maybe it's a detox path, maybe, maybe it's some production of some hormone or maybe it's a neurochemical. I just don't do that job so well. So this is the hub from which all of my problems, the spokes may come out. And we understand longevity is rooted in. So your cells Maintaining health like you said, DNA, not getting damaged mitochondria being resilient and plentiful and large and all that stuff. The opposite of being in a state of inflammation. So why would you be in a state of inflammation? Because some job is failing. Your genetics can identify that. And then there's habits, nutrition, environment, lifestyle, the epigenetic load that you have to start choosing that are matched to your genome as opposed to conflicting. And the conflict is where the problems come from. And they're not the same choices for all of us.

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What were some choices for you that were different?

So I learned that. So the one that stands out the most is my gut. So there's a gene called GSTM1 and we just talked about this the other day on the live. Right. So it's, it's possible to have what's called a copy number variation. It's a very unique type of variant where you don't even have the gene. Forget about a spelling mistake or a snip. Like I'm truly missing this entire chunk of code from my human instruction manual. So my cells aren't told to defend my gut from incoming toxins. So the autoimmunity and the inflammatory conditions I was suffering from are both rooted in this sort of sieve, sieve of a gut that I had that just let everything in complete dysbiotic state. So I knew that I need to be supported in two ways. One, reduce the load. Here's something that I have to prioritize. Here's where I have to have the right habits and also supplement and add with whatever I could think of. And I learned a lot from you in that area that would support the jobs that my body didn't do. Right. That was a big one. A huge one for me was neurochemical. Yeah, yeah. Big, big one. And I, and I learned that the way I perceive the world caused me to behave in a way that made me sick. It was, it's very hard for me to experience pleasure and reward because of my dopamine pathway. So I actually don't bind dopamine efficiently.

I think we both have that, don't we? If I remember right.

Yeah, yeah. And a fast neurochemical clearance also we both have. Which is typical of someone that has entrepreneurial spirit. You're constantly seeking reward.

I manage my dopamine very, very carefully. And I've noticed just huge improvements in how I show up in relationships in the world. And you know, a lot of the biohacks, in fact a lot of the biohacks in Headstrong in my brain book, a lot. But not all of them had to do with dopamine. Even some, some things like L Depranil in low doses. Low doses, it's an anti aging thing that protects your dopamine neurons. But it Also makes you more dopamine sensitive. So I take that stuff on a regular basis.

Right.

Stuff like that, where if you know it, you could just kind of poke around the way I did and, and look at all these things and go down, does this work? Does this work? Or you, you look at the data the way you are now, which is a much newer style biohacking.

Go.

Huh?

Of all the 2,500 different things I could do for my brain, given the way my brain is wired, these are the things that are most likely to work. So now you erase all of the nootropics that aren't dopamine centric, focus on those until you get results, and then try the next one. So it's a lot more of a scientific and logical approach versus where I was, which was, I'm just going to do all 2500 as long as my brain works, thank God.

Right.

And then I could start taking out the ones that didn't work to see what worked. And that is a rational approach. When you don't have data, but you got the DNA company to get your data, there's tons of other labs, there's neuroscience, there's the 40 years of Zen stuff. You can look at electrical activity, you can look at VO2, max blood flow, nitric oxide, all these crazy things you couldn't do 15 years ago. Yeah, but if you, if you turn everything on, you think, but you don't have the genes to make the things you're turning on, what's going to happen?

It's not going to work out too well.

Doesn't work.

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Another big thing we've learned when it comes to neurochemicals and mood and behavior is that there's no good or bad. It's all context based. So the thing that I thought was a problem was also my superpower, which it is for you too. The reason we do what we do and we're out there leading and building is because we seek reward. But try and take that on a family vacation, it's not going to align very well. So when it comes to. Here's the things I'm trying to get, my supplements, my treatments, whatever, it's also highly contextually based. What is the goal today? What am I trying to be today?

So I will admit, when my kids were really young, family vacations were horribly painful for me. I love my family, love the kids, love spending time with them. But sitting around for a week or two with no agenda.

Yeah.

For me and just nothing to do, it wasn't relaxing at all.

Yeah, right.

So how do you handle that? I know you're wired that similar.

Yeah. So that, so what we just talked about with the dopamine pathway plus serotonin dysregulation, which means that your brain is firing at a higher level of detail and it is sensing incoming stimulus at a higher level of detail, which often gets categorized as adhd. It's not an attention deficit, it's More a hyper attention. You pay attention to every little incoming stimulus so you notice it all, which kind of gives you that squirrel modality around yourself. But it's, it's a true superpower. So combine that with the dopamine dysregulation. It leads to this high functioning anxiety type drive constantly needing to do more, do more, do more, do more. Try and put that on a beach for two weeks, you're going to crash and burn. So there are supplements you can take, and the supplements you take on that day are very different than what you take when you're thriving at work. For example, regulating serotonin through five HTP or breathing exercises or whatever puts you in that zone that you need to be in. So you know, it's only who am I? But what's the context?

So you can use a combination of your genetics and supplementation or other lifestyle practices called biohacking to put yourself in the state you want for a specific activity. And I certainly do that. And I think people who've been listening for a long time pick up those skills to say, well, what kind of a day is today? If I'm going to go on stage with Dave at the biohacking conference, you might not want to be too mellow, but if you're a super high anxiety person and you have stage fright, maybe you do want to dial up the mellow and you don't need more dopamine right now. So you have to know yourself, know your activities and your energy levels. Like, I woke up this morning, I'm playing around with specific types of protein peptides. And so I took some later than I normally would last night. I woke up this morning going, God, my brain is running at a 7 out of 10. And I don't really want that because I've got three interviews today. So I took a microdose of modafinil, about 50 milligrams, half the normal dose. This is a dopamine affecting cognitive enhancing drug. They call it the limitless drug and I've made it. People know about it largely because of an episode I did on ABC Nightline years ago talking about it. So I did that based on my activities and my state when I woke up. If I hadn't have had the protein before bed, I would have had a better state in the morning and I probably would have just stuck with Mother Nature's original nootropic danger coffee. So we can all dial it in. What I want to know though is you got your genes right, but you also, and we've Talked about this over dinner lots of times. You grew up in an immigrant household, and how did that affect your health, given your dopamine and your serotonin, things like that.

So I grew up around illness. Like, everybody was sick. Like, truly, it sounds like hyperbole, but my dad had cardiovascular disease, diabetes. All of my uncles had either gut issues, depression issues, alcohol issues. Because of the reward seeking behavior is also addictive behavior. It's one of the two. Right. I mean, my dear cousin, who was like my best friend, died when he was 19, you know, so I didn't realize until I got sick at 38. Five chronic conditions all at the same time. That was the first time that I actually had to deal with healthcare. Right. And I just thought this was. It just happens. It's innate. Yeah, but if you aren't born with something, if you don't have, like, sickle cell syndrome or a rare form of, know, autism that you. A switch was turned on. If it's chronic in nature, it's a choice. It doesn't have to happen.

You're saying it's my fault?

The choices you make got you there. We are. We're misinformed. And the clinicians that are supposed to quarterback us also don't have the right toolkit. Right? So they're not designed to teach us how to not get sick.

The good news is that it's your fault.

Yeah.

Which means you can change it. And the bad news is that it's your fault because people who didn't know what they were doing told you to do the wrong things. And why? Those people didn't know. Either they were bad at their job, or there was an organized cartel of people selling a certain type of substance that infiltrated the education institutions and taught them to tell you things that weren't true.

Yeah.

But nonetheless, it's your fault because you believe the wrong people.

There you go.

That means you're in charge. You're in control. You get to decide. And it also means if someone tries to force you to do something you don't want to do, you have the right to say no. Because I'm in charge of my own biology, not you, thank you very much. It doesn't matter if it's your insurance company or some government cartel or just a doctor who's like, I really want to force you to take statins, but my genetics don't say, I need statins and I'm going to change my diet first. No one's in charge except for you and the DNA company. The way you're doing it, I feel even though I have an enormous amount of data about myself, that it really helped me to prioritize some of my biohacks by knowing what are my highest risks and what are the pathways. I know how to manipulate those. So I found it to be really useful data.

So, you know, speaking of statins, I want to use that as an example to paint a picture of exactly what you just said. Cardiovascular disease is the number one killer right now. Still, it's also probably the easiest killer to prevent. Does not need to happen. And statins are now the number one sold medication in the United States. Most of them are not needed. So what's going on there? When we study this genetically, it's not show me the cardiovascular gene or show me the cholesterol gene. That's not how the body works. The body works in systems and cascades. We understand. So we can predict genetically the quality of your hardware. Here's your artery, the inner lining, the endothelium. Is it stainless steel, resilient, or is it paper thin and highly prone to inflammation?

So if you have a lace doily for an endothelium, according to my DNA company test, yeah, you were doing well.

There, but you're doing things right, which is why you don't have a cardiovascular disease. So now let's talk that you're born with a doily like Dave. You could potentially get sick a lot faster if you do things wrong.

I did in my 20s. I mean, literally, they said, dave, you're at high risk of stroke and heart attack. Your thrombin and fibrinogen levels are very high. Like this isn't good. So I fixed it.

Yeah, you fixed it. So now something that thing you fix is an inflammatory insult. Something has to cause inflammation here. But you weren't born sick, right? You do everything right, you're not going to get sick. So something has to cause inflammation, whether it's in an inhaled or a consumed or created toxin, like from a hormone or kale something.

Right, because that was a joke. Oxalic acid actually could damage the lining of your arteries. We don't have great evidence that it's a primary cause of that kind of calcification. Anyway. Keep going.

Yeah, now you have that toxin, whether it is kale or whether it is your mit, your. Your oxidants from your mitochondria, whatever, something coming in, something you make causing inflammation, your body's response. And so now there's thing, there's things to look at. My genetic quality of my hardware, my glutathione pathways, my antioxidative pathways, you can start to figure out again what to prioritize. Like you said, here's the job. My body doesn't do well combined with bad hardware. Now, if I don't focus on this job and I let these toxic insults in or I don't supplement to block them, I'm going to cause inflammation here. And if I get inflammation here, my body's response is to actually deploy cholesterol as a hormone to mitigate and reduce the inflammation. It's sent there to save you, not to hurt you. And now genetically, we can determine how would you do that job, that the ability to transport cholesterol around your body in simple terms, that's also genetically determined. So now if that is deployed, it's sent there, it's healing you, and that cholesterol meets the toxicity, it actually oxidizes and hardens and gets deposited. And then 10 years later, your doctor tells you you have a cholesterol problem, you need a pill. Right? That's an example of it was a choice, but you weren't told what choices to make.

I like that you weren't told what choices to make. You made the wrong ones and you're not going to feel the difference. So you ate, you know, the deep fried whatever the heck in restaurant oil. And, you know, you just do that a couple times a week because it's delicious and you like your french fries or whatever the heck it is, or my favorite, oh, it's a vegetable. We're going to deep fry Brussels sprouts for you, therefore they're good for you. Like, guys, sorry, Brussels sprouts was like a plus 0.05 and the fried was minus 100. But they're good for you because the 0.05. So sorry you did either one of those, but you didn't the next day necessarily feel bad. Maybe you had a pimple or something. You didn't notice that it was correlated, but over time, that's what's doing it. So if you know that's a weakness for you, then you would make better choices, ideally, right?

And. And you would even know where to intervene, because for some people, they need to intervene at the hardware level. Let me take a supplement like arterosol, for example. That really helps me with the glycocalyx and builds it up. Or some people need to focus on the glutathione pathway or the methylation pathway, like, which is the red flag for me. Let me focus on that. Which is going to give me the biggest roi and Then start doing the other stuff.

It's totally true. It's funny, Arturo. Still, they've been on the show a couple years ago, but that's a supplement I've been on for, I think, seven years because of my specific genetics. In fact, it was because you guys at the DNA company pointed out, like, hey, you might want to actually pay more attention to your arterial linings, because that's one of your weak spots. And I said, well, I know about the clinical research. I'm going to add this stuff. And I had them on the show years later. And glutathione, the first ever liposomal glutathione. I actually helped to get that thing launched back in the late 90s and because it made such a difference for me. So now people get IVs, but aren't there some people who shouldn't take glutathione because of the genetics?

Yeah, all supplementation you can personalize, including glutathione. So the GST1 gene, it's also possible to have what's called a copy number variation there, meaning you don't even have the gene. So if you don't have the genetic instruction driving the function of glutathione, not only is it binding onto toxins, but also the minerals and nutrients you need. And I can't tell you how many times we've had somebody that went, that got a heavy metal or a mold test, that went to a naturopath with good intentions, was told, take this glutathione iv, and they got worse. They feel horrible after because they just can't function. There's no nutrition being delivered to where it needs to be delivered. And so they need precursors, nac, other things like that, you know, so we can highly personalize. When I say we, I mean you. Whoever's listening, your genetic code will tell you what to do and how to do it. It's very clear.

It's actually really different from back when, when I was creating the biohacking movement. And the definition of this, the algorithm really was find all the things that are likely to work, do them all at one time. That was art and science are changing the environment around you and inside of you, so you have control of your own biology. I must have said that like 10,000 times now. But what's happening now is the art and science of changing the environment around you. We know more about what changes to make, so you have to make fewer changes. And the goal is that over the course of the next 50 years of biohacking, we use AI like we're doing at upgrade labs and like what you're doing very, very specifically. We have a huge amount of data now so that it gets easier and easier to know. Here's what's most likely to work with a 95% confidence, you need exactly 47 milligrams of curcumin.

Right.

So maybe that's better than what I would. What I did do for a very long time, which was I know that curcumin likely is going to help because I know I have these five things. I'll just take three a day, right? And I got results and it was great, but maybe two was better. And there's no way I could really tell. So I think we're getting there. And the data that you're using is a major part of the data set.

Yeah, for sure. When even the simplest thing like vitamin D can be highly complex if you don't understand the genetic cascade.

In fact, it was you, Cash, with my first DNA company report. I think what you guys said was, Dave, you have the vitamin D receptors of someone who should be living on a tropical island. Because I burn through vitamin D much more quickly than most people and my receptors aren't particularly good at sticking it in. So I need about 15 to 20,000 IUs of vitamin D a day to get my levels where they should be, where most people would need five. But you might have noticed I appear to come from northern Europe or I'm an albino. So I'm super white, right? And so that means if I'm on a tropical island, I'm probably going to cook myself. So without supplementation, without knowing that I would just take 5,000 like everyone else. So every morning I open up vitamin D, which guys you can go to vitamind a k e.com that's based on research from my latest book. But I take three or four of those. I kind of alternate. Some days three, some days four. The average person needs one a day. And knowing that is a huge gift. And that was a DNA company finding. I titrated the amount I needed, but I didn't know why. And you guys explained why. It was two things in my genetics. If I'd have had my test when I started this, I wouldn't have had to spend five years playing with my amounts to figure out how much to take.

And just that one thing. Of the 22,000 or 24,000 genes that make up your genome, 2,000 require vitamin D to express properly. So 10% of your human biochemistry is dependent on the adequate Amount, like the precise amount that your body needs of the right vitamin D dose. Right. So you wonder why. Mood issues, bone issues, hair issues, all these things are connected to vitamin D, which is actually a hormone, as we know. So, yeah, 10% of your body fails and falls apart if you don't have the right.

You're right. We should ban it and then sell it as a drug for 10 times more. That's a good idea. You suggested that.

So just. Health Canada right now is trying to make it so that doctors cannot recommend vitamin D because it's not evidence based.

Right, Because Health Canada is not evidence based. We already knew that.

Yeah, they, they missed a couple words in their, in their.

Health Canada is not evidence based. Totally gotcha. Right?

You go to PubMed, there's 11,000 publications on Lipitor, the drug that I mentioned. There's 99,000 on vitamin D and they're saying it's not evidence based.

Well, you need 100,000 for it to count. So, guys, if you're listening to this, you're going to love Cash on stage. If you're on the edge of getting one of the few tickets left for the biohacking conference, go to biohackingconference.com this is the first, the largest and the longest running a biohacking conference and it's where actually I launched the movement. So go to biohackingconference.com cash is going to get to talk about some of this stuff and more on stage. You'll get to meet him. He'll be walking around playing with all the biohacking toys. So you'll be able to probably catch him in a hallway and ask him crazy questions. And same with me and all the other speakers, this is some of the most fun you're going to have. So I hope to see you at the conference. Kash hopes to see you. And Kash, thanks for taking time on this little mini episode today.

No, it's a pleasure, man. It's awesome what you're doing. And the conference truly changed my perspective. The first time I went on what's possible when I saw the community, like, here's all these people that are truly building a new healthcare system outside of our failed healthcare system.

Yeah.

So we can actually be healthy. And it just. Since then I've been in it and I'm offline. Elite cool guys.

Same with the conference. If you don't make the conference, there are more than a thousand episodes of the Human Upgrade available for you, so you don't always have to listen to the current one. Although I do share the most current stuff. If you look back, you'll see Peter Attia and you'll see Andrew Huberman before they had shows, and you'll see Jack Canfield and you'll see Stan Grof, the father of holotropic breathing. You'll see episodes with Tony Robbins and with Tim Ferriss and some of the people who are Lumina in the field. Because this conversation about living forever is something that is not new. We just now think it's more possible than before. But there are even ancient practices like Taoism where we've been looking at this, like traditional Chinese medicine, like Ayurveda from around the planet. So some of these ancient practices are now being proven, and they're being proven by the stuff that the DNA company is doing. Like, oh, that's why this worked. So this is a very intriguing time to be a biohacker. Whether it's about feeling better now, about getting your energy back, about losing weight, feeling good, having really good love in your life, being smarter, all those things are possible. And they're easier now than they were 10 years ago or 20 or 30 years ago. So thank you for listening and I will see you at the biohacking conference or on the next episode. You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey.

The Human Upgrade, formerly Bulletproof Radio, was created and is hosted by Dave Asprey. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider carefully, read all labels, and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call or see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Bulletproof Media. A Human Upgrade, formerly Bulletproof Radio, was created and is hosted by Dave Asprey. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider carefully, read all labels, and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call us. See your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Bulletproof Media.