Beat Sugar: The Glucose Goddess Method – Jessie Inchauspé : 1137

You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey, formerly Bulletproof Radio. All right, Glucose Goddess. You guys probably follow Glucose Goddess because she has like 3 million followers, but you may not if you don't. Her stuff is really good. And so I've been a fan of blood sugar for a long time. In fact, in maybe 2014, after I started the first blog, I opened a package one day and in it was a Dexcom glucose monitor. I used one.

Nice.

And it was from. With this really nice letter from a woman who said, dave, I'm a type 1 diabetic. Your bulletproof coffee, this MCT oil especially, has made such a difference in my life because now my blood sugar goes low. I don't. I don't like go into seizure because I have ketones as a backup and it's been life changing. I got a new monitor. I know you'll want to geek out with this one. Wow.

So one of your fans.

Yeah, it was just a Dexcom gift and I was like, this is cool. So I played around with it, but it was an older one. The newer ones, I work with Levels. Do you work with Levels or a similar company?

No, I don't work with any of the company.

Okay. So I'm an investor in Levels now. And Levels does the stick on white thing that you see a lot of.

People wearing the Libre?

Yeah. And I WORE that on Dr. Oz. And he's like, he's like, what's that? I'm like, oh, that's my cyborg arm. Because I have like an aura ring and like my little white thing. It looks weird on the camera.

I love it.

So, like, we're both nerds on that and many listeners, you guys are nerds too, but some of you aren't. So we're gonna talk in details about Glucose because you're not just an influencer.

No.

You're a scientist. Yes. Right. And by the way, guys, everyone says I'm not a scientist. Number one, fuck off. Number two, I'm a computer scientist, so. Okay, anyway, I am a scientist also. But you're like, you're a scientist.

I'm like a proper scientist.

Yeah, because you went to like Georgetown.

Winter Lab, you know, and worked on like rat models and stuff like that.

Yeah, I worked on rat models once.

Really?

I bought them at the, at the store. And you like, glue them together and paint them like little rats.

What?

That rat model is like Legos but for rats.

What are you talking about? No.

Oh, God, you're easy to pull. This would be a Funny.

Okay, I'm going to be better now. I'm not going to be full. Next joke. I won't be full.

I think I've got you. All right, tell me about glucose.

Well, Dave, as you know, glucose is your body's favorite source of energy, right? So as we're laughing and joking around, our brain cells using glucose are. Which brain cells are using glucose. Wait, when you hang onto that water bottle, your finger cells are using glucose. Right. So in most bodies, all of your cells are using glucose all the time.

Even the neurons?

Even the neurons.

We're going to have to talk about that one.

Well, it just depends. Right, But I'm just talking in general.

For most people, it's a primary fuel source.

Primary fuel, yes. But please, you know, add some layers and some complexity. But I like to start from the beginning. Okay, Right. Primary fuel source, principal energy for the body. And then we can talk about what happens if you don't want to do that. But the main way that most of us currently give glucose to our body is by eating food, by eating carbs, mostly. Right. So starches, bread, rice, pasta, potatoes, oats, and anything that tastes sweet from.

Except for stevia.

An apple. Yes, except for stevia. Correct. Except for sweeteners. So anything from an apple to slice of cake. Right?

Yeah.

And what happens.

What about broccoli?

Broccoli? Well, broccoli is mostly fiber and water. Very tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny amounts of glucose. But that's not going to spike your glucose levels.

So when you eat broccoli, though, doesn't a meaningful amount of the carbohydrate eventually become.

Well, the thing is, in broccoli, most of the carbs are actually fiber.

Right.

There's very little starch. So the fiber is not going to turn back into glucose molecules. There's a very small amount of starch in broccoli that will turn to glucose. But if you eat, you know, a pound of broccoli versus a pound of bread, it's not at all the same thing.

It's negligible. And what about the protein in the broccoli?

Yes. So some pro. There's not much protein in the broccoli.

There's about as much glucose forming starch as there is protein. But vegans believe it's high protein.

Well, listen, protein does turn to glucose at a much higher rate. Okay, but so when people hear this like, okay, so glucose energy, I want lots of energy. Carbs give me energy. So I should eat loads of carbs. Right? That's a, That's a common conclusion. You might reach.

That was me in the 80s, that's for sure.

Is that what you thought?

Everyone thought that. So like before doing a hundred mile bike ride, you would literally go to Dunkin Donuts and get the low fat muffins because they had more carbs Wild. And I wonder why I was fat as a kid. But that's what we believed because we believed all these, like nutrition researchers and scientists, the American Dietetic association, the people who make hospital meals today. You did that to me. And I've got your number.

I grew up on orange juice and Nutella crepes every morning.

Where did you grow up? In France, I was going to say. But was it really Nutella or was it like homemade?

Oh, no, no, no. Real Nutella. Oh Yeah, yeah, the 70% palm oil kind. Yeah.

Palm oil is not that bad for you, is it? I don't think.

No, it's really good for you.

Is it hydrogenated?

No, but it's really, really good for you. Of course. No, guys, it's not good for you.

Hold on.

Nutella is not good for you.

No, no. Nutella is bad for you, but palm oil is not bad for you.

Palm oil is bad for you.

We have to talk about this, really. Why does your body make palmitic acid? It's the only saturated fat you manufacture.

Okay, but not in the same quantities as you. Nutella.

I will eat palmitic acid all day long before I eat. Before I eat canola oil.

Sure. Okay, but you're not going to recommend that people start drinking a bunch of palm oil.

I wouldn't supplement it. I would do butter instead.

Okay, but if you say that, people might think, okay, Nutella is actually not too bad for me.

Not my people. My people are smarter than your people.

Okay, good. So I grew up in Nutella crepe. Every morning I'm chopped and orange juice.

I'm channeling Bobby. What's her name? Bobbi Aloff.

Yeah. She's amazing.

Yeah. For some reason I just feel like I'm channeling her right now and I'm just making all these comments to see if you just get uncomfortable because it's making me laugh.

I'm super uncomfortable right now.

You don't act like it.

I'm really uncomfortable. Can I leave?

That was our Bobby skin.

Can I leave? I'd like to leave, please. So, yeah, so carbs are not actually a good way to give your body energy because it's like a plant. Some water. Good for the plant. Too much water. Plant diesel, human body. Some glucose is fine. Too much Glucose, Lots of problems start happening. So you gotta giving your body a little bit is fine, but too much is not gonna be.

What if it is zero sugar? Nutella, Would you eat that?

Honestly, I'm so over all of these processed foods that call themselves no added sugar, vegan, gluten free, just to look healthy. Like, if I'm gonna eat Nutella, I want the real Nutella. I don't want keto ice cream. I want the triple chocolate fudge brownie ice cream. If I'm eating something sweet, I want to eat the real deal.

Do you like glucose?

I do, I love glucose.

Okay. And so you like sugar?

Yeah, I love sugar because you're French.

You have like baguettes and all that stuff.

Yeah. But also, I think this is what got me into this because I didn't want to have glucose spikes, but I still wanted to eat the carbs. That's so good.

We're going to have so much fun talking about this because it sounds like you're hacking a problem here.

Yeah. How do you eat the stuff you love and get all that dopamine from the sweetness with less impact on your body? That's kind of the whole gist. Do you like sugar?

People are going to be shocked. Yes.

Do you eat sugar every day?

I don't eat processed sugar every day, but I eat sugar most days. But that comes from fruit or honey.

If I was going to buy you like a cake for your million followers when you hit it, what kind of cake would you like?

I found this thing at Erawan here in town called Karma cakes. Ooh, they look like. Are they Ding Dongs? No. Ho Hos? Whatever the round. No. Hostess Cupcakes. You wouldn't know this because you didn't grow up here.

No.

So it's like the 1990s, processed little chocolate cupcakes that would come like at a 711 that you would never eat, but they're made out of. I think it's sorghum. And there's grains I don't normally eat. And there's definitely sugar in them. And there's probably some palm oil in the whipped filling.

Ooh, your favorites.

But they're actually. I have one in the fridge over there. You want one?

Yeah, kind of. We'll try. Enough.

Okay. At the end of the show, we're going to have a karma cake together.

Okay, cool. But I prefer like proper, really unhealthy.

Oh, this is like made by some sort of like hippie vegan person. It'll be unhealthy.

Well, come on. It'll pretend to be healthy.

It's from Erewhon.

I like stuff. Yeah, but so what?

Everything at Erewhon's healthy. Everyone knows that.

No, that's bullshit. When I eat sugar, I want to eat the real stuff. I want to eat the. I'm a chocolate person. I'm actually chocolate fudge with chocolate sprinkles and chocolate sauce and a brownie on the side.

I want everyone listening to hear this. The sprinkles I would ditch because they're gross. But if you're going to eat what we used to call a cheat meal, which is a dumb idea, don't make it out of industrial processed crap. Like, eat the sugar. It's better for you than the sucralose and all the other crap. But don't do it all the time. And use what you're going to learn here.

Exactly.

To keep your blood sugar from going crazy.

Can I ask a question?

What?

What's that molecule tattooed on your arm?

I mean, you studied all this stuff. Do you know what that is?

No.

It's trimethylxanthine.

What's that?

Caffeine.

Do you like caffeine?

I like caffeine.

Nice.

You know why? It lowers my blood sugar.

Oh, really? Interesting. In some people, it spikes their blood sugar.

It depends on how long you wait, really. If your adrenals are tweaked and it raises your cortisol, and cortisol breaks down muscle and releases blood sugar, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, but so does an infrared sauna spike of blood sugar, right?

Yeah, but I still haven't figured out if that's from the heat actually causing the glucose monitor to slightly malfunction or from the dehydration in your body. Like, what's going on there?

Oh, I. It actually is releasing cortisol.

Really? You think that's why?

It's the equivalent of a workout. It raises your heart rate, raises your blood pressure.

What about dehydration? Is that a thing, you think?

I don't think so.

Okay.

You couldn't raise it that much. Imagine how much blood you'd have to draw if you're going to raise your. It'll go up by 20 points. Yeah, like from, you know, 80 to 100 or something. So that would be a 20% or. No, 25% dehydration.

If you're 20, you'd be like, properly not. Okay. I've been practicing my cold plunging in sauna and I can do three and a half minutes now in the cold plunge. Are you impressed? Do you think I'm cool.

I'm very impressed. I think you're cool. Mostly just you have 3 million followers. I mean, everything else, whatever.

Makes sense. That's how I also think about people, like, coolness and number of followers.

Do you, like, walk into a bar and just be like, I'm the glucose goddess. I have 3 million followers. And they give you free drinks all the time? Yeah.

I don't pay for anything.

Man. You're giving it back to me. I don't know what to do with this. When we're talking about the infrared sauna thing, I've. I mean, I've seen mine hundreds of times in the sauna. And the length of the sauna does affect it. I just think it's elevated heart rate and cortisol. I would bet money on that. And it always goes back down pretty quickly afterwards.

Yeah, it does.

But what does the cold plunge do to your blood sugar?

I don't know, actually. I haven't tested it with a glucose monitor.

Interesting. I don't. I've never.

Does it a similar thing?

No, I don't think so. You get the endorphins. I've never seen a spike from it, but it doesn't seem to bring it down either. How long. How long of a cold plunge do you want to be able to do?

20 minutes.

Why?

Because I want to be badass.

The benefits really happen after six minutes.

I thought it was two minutes. No, I don't want to go much longer because then I'm like, I don't feel my body anymore. And I could stay longer, but it doesn't feel very healthy.

It's not.

Yeah.

I was at an event, and they had the ice cubes in the water. Yes.

You're like, it's really cold.

It's 1 degree centigrade or whatever, and I was in a Celsius. What's centigrade? Celsius. What's the difference? That's the same word. Like, different countries in Europe. Yeah. You should try traveling around Europe. You learn a lot.

I'll try.

So I'm in this evening for 15 minutes.

That's a long time.

Because I'm doing an IG live, and I got an exciting question. I started talking, and I got out. I'm like, I feel so freaking good. Yes. Yes. And I'm starting to walk back to my room, and I'm giving a talk at this investment conference, and I'm walking and I start shaking. I'm like, I have hypothermia. This sucks. And I'm trying to Drink warm coffee, but I can't because I'm spilling it on myself. I'm like. It's like I got in the shower and turned on hot water and like laid there and twitched. Because you're not really supposed to be in hot water either. To warm up.

Yeah. You're supposed to let your body warm up.

Yeah. But I figured even if the blood sugar or the blood sugar, if the blood left my organs to the skin because it was hot, eventually it would make its way back. So I just like. I didn't pass out, but I was miserable. So, guys, cold plunging, maybe two. Excess is not good for you. And it's not. Especially for women. Especially for women in their fertile life.

It's a stressor. It's a stressor. So only do it. For example. Let me give you an example. Yesterday I went to the place that does the sauna cold plunge. And after my first minute I was like, today my body just can't deal with it. It's too much stress. I just got out, didn't do any more rounds. You have to also do it. Be conscious that it is a stressor. Like fasting for women, like caffeine, a stressful job, kids hiit workouts, all this stuff. You have to be conscious. It's a stressor.

Turns out you should be kind to yourself whether you're a man or a woman. And that the stress tolerance levels for women and men are not the same on average and they're not the same at different times of the month. So being aware of that or of your life. But we get andropause too.

Really?

You ever see that movie Grumpy Old Men?

No.

It'S a comedy about the two old guys, but it's a documentary on testosterone deprivation.

Interesting.

So, yeah, low testosterone guys are cranky and bitchy and all. So, you know, the typical old men stereotype. That's a testosterone thing. So we go through andropause, we just don't.

So you have to supplement with testosterone.

Yeah, I just have to start hating your life.

Not fun.

Yeah, but same thing. You know, a lot of women in menopause, it's like, look what happens when you do bioidentical hormone replacement. It also helps them regulate your blood sugar, whether it's testosterone or the other one.

Absolutely, Absolutely.

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It's giving me interesting questions. How much of aging is caused by blood sugar spikes?

I don't have an exact number, but glycation, which is the process that your body goes through, like the chicken in the oven, going from pink to brown and it cooks, it glycates. The human body also cooks and glycates from the moment it's born and then when you're fully cooked, you die essentially. And if you look at the cartilage of babies, it's white. If you look at the cartilage of a 100-year-old person, it's brown that cartilage has glycated over time. And glycation is quite similar to aging. And the more your body has glycated, the more you'll see signs of aging. Like on your skin with wrinkles, cataracts, it's, etc. And then on the inside, your organs also slowly deteriorate. And glycation and glucose, they sound quite similar. It's because it is the glucose that is doing the glycation. So when free glucose molecules bump into other molecules in your body, they damage them and those molecules become glycated forever. Collagen is a really good example. Right. Glycated collagen is going to impact your skin, your hair, et cetera. So I don't know what percentage, but glycation is a big, big driver.

I don't have a percentage either. It was one of the seven pillars of aging in my longevity book where you have to control this. And this is why that postprandial spike in blood sugar is such a thing. And postprandial, if you're new to the show, it means after eating. So let's say that we're gonna celebrate me getting to just a million followers and we're gonna eat this triple chocolate fudge. We're gonna go to a French bakery with real butter. Cause none of these fake oils. And they're gonna bake this big old for me gluten free cake. I know that your French toast gluten free is like wrong for you. Yeah, I knew you'd say that because you ate real gluten growing up. So anyway, we've got this giant cake, really, really giant. And we're just going to eat it until like our kid lunches just shoot. Yeah, with fucking spoons. It's going to be like in my hair and everything.

And then we're going to feel really sick.

Yeah. So what do I do to not get old from doing that?

Few things you can do. Number one, don't eat the cake on an empty stomach. Have it after a meal after bacon. After what?

Bacon.

After bacon if you want. Or after a full meal would be better with like some proteins and some fats and some fiber. I would go like for some chicken and broccoli, your favorite, and some.

You eat chicken?

Yeah.

Gross. What? Compared to steak? Why would you do that? Are you poor?

I'm very poor, yeah.

I could not laugh at my own joke.

I don't know. I think every once in a while.

Yeah, yeah. Okay.

But I don't know, man. It's just personal preference.

Okay. By the Way, guys, the are you poor Comment, that's a reference to this idea that in ancient France and every place we've raised animals, the peasants, when they're allowed to have anything, the first animal they get is a chicken because it gives them eggs. And chicken meat. Yeah. And eggs, if you're not allergic, are so good for you.

So good for you.

And then, like, if you get a little bit more peasant dollars, then, like, oh, you're allowed to have a pig. Cause they can eat everything. And then a goat and then a sheep and then a cow. And as you go up, each of them is more nutrient dense and more nutritious, but requires more in order to do it. And I promise you that if chickens were the healthiest food, then we'd all be eating chicken at the highest ranks. But chicken has that reputation, and it has to do with the type of fat and type of amino acid availability.

Interesting.

So that was my joke about being poor. And yes, chicken's more affordable. And guys, I worked in an auto parts warehouse for a long time, so this isn't like, you know, one of those things. But I'm just saying, if you can afford beef protein, it's a superior source than chicken protein. And it shows the amino acid scores and all that.

It's just personal tastes and preference. I mean, I love fish and eggs and cheese and chicken. And I'll have, like a steak once in a while, but it's not. It's not for my palate. It's not my favorite, you know.

Have you. Have you ever been fat?

No.

You're French. None of you guys are fat. It's not fair.

No, I've never been fat. I've been really unwell mentally.

But tell me what happened.

I broke my back.

Oh, my God. How do you do that?

Jumped off a waterfall.

You know, they always tell you not to do that, and then we always do it, and then sometimes.

I know. Go figure. Yeah. So, broke my back. One of my vertebrae exploded.

Ow.

Yeah. Ow. So intense surgery. I got a lot of metal in my back, but I was young, so, you know, your physical health, you kind of heal fast. After two months, I was walking again, but my mental health went crazy. Depression, anxiety, depersonalization, which is this feeling of being a stranger in your own body. It's terrifying.

Oh, my gosh.

So I had that for 10 years.

For 10 years?

Yeah. Wow. And that's what led me to study biochemistry, because I want. I was doing math. I was studying math at the time, and I just wanted to understand what the heck was going on with my body.

Can I just high five you?

Yeah, baby.

You did something about it.

I did, Yeah.

I was in the same. The same boat, right? I'm like, I'm fat. I'm tired. Nothing works. I'm just going to have to go do it. Yeah, right. Oh, my God. I did not know that part of your story. I'm sure you posted about it, but I just started following.

If you had read my book, you would know.

You know, I have people do that for me.

So, yeah, broke my back. Mental health was terrible. That's why I went to biochemistry. And then I worked in genetics, blah, blah, blah. And then I had this realization about five years ago that the days where my blood sugar was unsteady, my mental health was worse.

Respect for figuring that out.

And that opened the door for me to finally understanding how my lifestyle was impacting my mental health. And that's the reason I got into this space. Because I needed to heal myself first. And then what I had learned, like these hacks that I will talk about, I found that they were just too powerful to not tell people about them. So there's the eating the cake. Not on an empty stomach, but after a meal.

And so. And you're saying some fat. Isn't the cake full of fat? Anyway? Shouldn't I just be eating protein and a bunch of fiber?

Yeah, you could. I mean, fiber is going to be the most powerful thing to eat.

So have some psyllium and some protein.

Yeah, maybe some real vegetables.

Gross. Okay, how about kale? Should I eat kale?

I know you love kale.

I love kale.

I actually brought you a bunch of kale as a kale.

I actually had a kale facial this morning. Yeah, that's why I have a pimple.

Yeah, I know you love kale. You gotta stop talking about kale. We get it. It's your favorite food. Like, we get it. Just relax.

It's an inappropriate relationship with kale.

Okay, but wait, I'm tying these hacks because they actually.

I want to know what vegetables. There's a real vegetables. I was just teasing about kale.

Okay, okay. Any vegetables are fine.

Okay? It doesn't matter.

Any vegetables. And some protein will be great because that way the sugar from the cake is not going to go so quickly into your bloodstream.

Okay?

Okay.

So you're going to slow the rate of release.

The whole point is eat the cake the same amount of cake as you normally would, but slow the release of the glucose and fructose to the body. That's One second. One is, after we have the cake, we want to go for a little walk or do some exercise. Okay, so maybe we'll go for a run after eating that cake. Or we'll do some stuff.

Run? We're talking about eating, like, cake in my hair. I'm not going to run. I'll get cramps.

Really?

If you eat as much cake as I'm envisioning. I mean, they always tell you don't swim after you eat because you get a cramp and drown. Your mom didn't tell you that?

I think that's bs.

Yeah, that's what you said before you jumped off the waterfall.

Good point. Good point. Okay, fine. We'll do some squats, we'll go for a walk.

Okay. I like air squats.

Another thing you can do before eating the cake is having some vinegar and water. Apple cider, any type of vinegar water.

Oh, interesting. It all works. So it's acetic acid is the trick.

Exactly, exactly. Acetic acid. Also, it just slows down your alpha amylase enzymes. Again, just slowing down digestion. Right. That's the whole point.

So there were five apple cider vinegar pills in that handful I took this morning for a reason.

Really?

Yep. Do the pills work?

There's no studies supporting the pills work, so.

Don't they contain acetic acid?

They do, but we don't know if in that form, that dehydrated form, they actually work. We just don't know.

Okay, so like, you're a biochemist, you add water to acetic acid. What do you get?

Yeah, but we just don't know. And you have to take three and I'm actually making a pill that does work.

Interesting. So when you say we have no evidence they work, we also have no evidence that if you jump out of an airplane without a parachute because there's no double blind studies.

Totally.

So, but how could it not work?

Because perhaps when you dehydrate it or you do something to it or you process it, like, we just don't know. Right. Personally, when I've tried the acetic acid pills instead of the regular vinegar, it hasn't worked in my blood sugar.

That's so interesting. Okay, I believe you. I'm just like, why?

Yeah, I don't know why. I don't know why. And you also have to take three and to get 800 milligrams, which is about what you would get in a tablespoon of vinegar. Right. So that's a lot of pills. I have a pill that I'm just launching tomorrow. Actually, it's called anti Spike, and it actually has clinical trials showing that it reduces the glucose spike by 40% of food.

Have you seen the studies showing that the other spike, protein, increases glycation meaningfully? No, there are studies.

Interesting.

That's actually probably one of the many things it does. So your anti Spike pill. Great name.

Thanks, baby.

We're talking about blood sugar spikes, only regulators, just to be really clear. Only blood sugar. There is no other kind of spike that even matters.

That's the only spike. Blood sugar spikes and insulin spikes are interesting, too.

Okay, let's talk about this. You're one of the people who really would understand this. So insulin is not blood sugar. And in common health discussions, people oftentimes confuse the two. Walk our listeners through, what is insulin? What is glucose? And then talk about high and low insulin versus high and low glucose and how you would feel those.

Okay? So when you eat a bunch of carbs like that cake, the glucose molecules arrive into your bloodstream and they make a spike. This glucose spike has consequences. Glycation, inflammation, mitochondrial stress, et cetera. Your body knows this glucose spike is not good for you, so it calls up your pancreas, and it's like, yo, we need to send out insulin to get that glucose spike down. So your pancreas releases insulin, which is an amazing hormone, and she grabs the excess glucose and stores it away in your liver cells and your muscle cells and in your fat cells. Okay? So your glucose levels come down thanks to insulin being released. Now, what's important is to understand that the first time I drank coffee, it kept me up for two days. Two months later, three cups of coffee could not even keep me awake anymore. I had become resistant to caffeine. Okay? You become habituated to something, and you need more and more of it to get the same effect. Your body can also become resistant to.

Insulin, but not in the same way as coffee, though.

Not in the same way. But I think it's a very important image.

As an image. Okay, I got you.

It's an image. So over time, your body's going to have to pump out more and more insulin to get that same amount of glucose into the storage units in your body. You will become slowly resistant to insulin. And then as this resistance gets worse, you get what's called prediabetes and type 2 diabetes as your fasting, glucose levels increase. So one thing that happens if you have high glucose levels is that your doctor might tell you, just inject insulin to get those levels down. That might work short term, but actually it is the excess of insulin that's causing the issues. So it would be so much better to be able to measure insulin levels.

You're saying it's an excess of insulin causing the problem?

Yeah.

But isn't it the lack of ability to use insulin causing the problem, not the existing excess?

Well, the. The excess of insulin creates the resistance, and then you can no longer use it properly.

So you think insulin causes insulin resistance?

Yeah. Excess amounts of insulin over time in your body, that's what creates insulin resistance.

We'll have to talk about that. Okay.

There's other things that can create it. Right. Like specific stuff going on in your body, but generally, this is one of the main pathways. More and more insulin creates more and more insulin resistance. And so when you talk about reversing type 2 diabetes, for example, people focus on getting your glucose levels down, but actually, you want to get those insulin levels down.

That's correct.

That's the key. Right. So glucose is actually a proxy for insulin, if you will. It would be so much better to have an insulin monitor than a glucose monitor.

Wouldn't that be crazy?

Would be cool. No.

Now, Gary Taubes in Good calories, Bad Calories, wrote a lot about what insulin's doing to us. That's a problem. And shout out Gary. When I interviewed him very, very early on in my show, he introduced me to the person who was my agent for the Better baby book, my very first book. So, Gary, thanks. And I got really into this insulin versus glucose thing because I was trying to figure it out myself. I. At the time, I'd already solved my high blood sugar issues.

Because you were pre diabetic.

Yeah, I was pre diabetic, yeah. I think that's just another American word for diabetic. Like, you're. You're in the sales pipeline.

126 is technically pre diabetes, right?

Yeah.

You were at 117, you said.

Yeah, 117.

Yeah.

And so. And this is when I'm like, 26 or something. Yeah.

That's wild.

And I don't believe that having high amounts of sugar causes or even is related to diabetes.

How so?

I think that it's bad fats, because bad fats break cell membranes. You can't express insulin receptors through them. So blood glucose builds up, the body makes more insulin. So you have high insulin, muscles become.

Fatty, they can't upset glucose anymore. Absolutely, yeah.

And you get broken cells. And broken cells are going to cause all sorts of problems that way. And based on those ideas, I can have carbs. In fact, I have 2 to 400 grams of carbs a day and probably more rice than I do sugar. And I don't eat white sugar, but I will have some honey or some fruit or whatever. And I'm six and a half percent body fat. My visceral fat is at the very low end for an 18 year old and it gets higher as you go. My liver fat is 0.8% and I'm not on a low carb diet and I don't eat bad fats ever. I haven't for 15 years.

Yeah, but Dave, eating rice and eating fruit, that's not the problem, Right? The real issue doesn't come so much from the starches, especially if they're not refined and processed. The real issue comes from the sweet foods that not only have a lot of sugar in it, but also have bad fats in them. Right. So all of the processed junk, you could eat rice every day of your life and never good. Diabetes, because that's just pure glucose. But when you.

Even if you ate three pounds, right?

Yeah.

I mean, do I have to use kilos for you or.

Yes, please, convert everything. I mean, listen, I don't know exactly how many pounds you'd have to eat, and I think that's a bit besides the point. But it's not so much about the rice, it's more about the donuts, the orange juice, the breakfast cereal, the smoothies, the dessert, the cookies. You know, that's the issue.

Is it because of the sugar in them or because of the trans fats in canola oil?

I think it's both. Honesty. It's the sugar that's spiking your glucose, spiking your insulin, but it's also the fructose that's in the sucrose that's causing VLDLs to be created in your liver. And also the bad fats, which are calling all sorts, causing all sorts of insulin resistance because they're making all your muscles in your cells fatty. So it's important to understand that I look at glucose as a really interesting window through which to enter better health. But it's not the only thing, right? It's not all about glucose. For example, you could add 15 pounds of butter to a meal and that would lower the glucose spike of the meal. But that doesn't mean that meal is better for you, right?

Sure does. Butter's great. You're French. Come on. You're violating your country ethos.

Or canola oil.

Okay, canola. Now we're on the okay, canola oil.

Geez. But so I think maybe Also, your audience is probably much more educated on this. But I try to teach people these very basic, important physiological principles that are going to allow them to reverse the diabetes and go from drinking orange juice and eating granola to having eggs in the morning. So I think we're operating maybe on a slightly different level of expertise.

No, I don't think we are, actually. I think that you're used to. And I'm going to sound a little bit rude here, but used to dumbing down what you say.

Exactly.

And that's a really valuable skill. In fact, that's why you have 3 million followers. And like before I ended up on Dr. Oz, I went into his office, introduction from a friend, and he had two medical research people in there, and he's like, tell me about collagen. And it was like a PhD advice. Like, the amount of diligence that goes on behind the scenes was crazy, but I know what I'm talking about. So I nerded out and blah, blah, blah. And he goes, okay, fine, but can you tell that to normal people? And I go, oh, you don't want me to use doctor speak? So then I switched into that, and he goes, okay, you can do both. Go on the show. You actually are plenty smart. I can already just tell from our conversations, you know how all this shit works. So I want you to flex your brain on the show so you don't have to dumb it down here.

Okay? Okay. Okay.

Okay. And some listeners, if this goes over your head, like, there's, I don't know, hundreds of episodes. Listen to the World of Gary Topp. Like. Like there's. There's tons of info here for you, but, like, let's get to it.

Let's get into it.

It's like, explain it to me.

Well, people, when they think about carbs, right? They think like, okay, rice turns to sugar or donut turns to sugar. It's not at all the case. Right? You have the starches, which only contain glucose. That, of course, spikes your glucose and your insulin levels. But then the real issue comes from stuff that contains sucrose, which is table sugar, because that contains half glucose, half sucrose. And then on a glucose monitor, if you compare a donut and a bowl of rice, you would see the same glucose spike, but you're actually missing a whole other part of the story.

This is the thing you guys need to know. Starch only makes glucose. Glucose you need. Glucose doesn't glycate your tissues the same way fructose does.

Yep, exactly. And then usually when you Take a donut. There's also a bunch of your favorite bad fats in there, of course, right? So if you were just to compare a donut and a bowl of rice on just a glucose monitor, you would think, oh, they're the same, right? Not at all the same. Which is one of the main limitations of wearing a glucose monitor and optimizing your whole life around it, because it's such a small fraction of what's truly happening. Right? The fructose in that sugar in that donut is causing much more damage to your body. It's glycating things much faster. It's making your liver produce bad fats. It's just, it's inflaming your tissue. It's not good for you, right? So that's a key, key piece of information.

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I have a little story for you.

Tell me.

Late 90s, I'm probably £250 and I've lost some of the weight. I've learned I can control my weight and I've read all this stuff about whatever we knew back then. So I went out and I bought a bunch of fructose because the American Diabetes Association. By the way, guys, thank you for perpetuating the illness that you say that you're treating.

Told you it's low glycemic.

Yeah, it's low glycemic, so I'm loving. Yeah, well, agave is the modern version of that. But I literally put fructose in things because it wasn't going to raise my blood sugar.

Like fructose powder.

Yeah. And it's the most harmful thing you could do because it raises triglycerides and it causes this advanced tissue aging. And after a couple months I'm like, I don't feel good on this. It's gross. And I stopped it. Thank God.

I didn't even know you could buy powdered fructose.

Wow. Yeah. And this is because, well, blindness to the fact that fructose does something and it's not what blood sugar does.

Yes.

So then later when I got smarter about things, I said, well, if I'm going to work out or I just, I'm really wrecked, or if someone in the family's like right on the edge of getting a migraine or something. I have a 20 pound thing of dextrose, which is straight up glucose. You can get glucose powder. Right. And you take that stuff before, put that in your pre workout. Right. You're going to kill it. I mean, your blood sugar will go up, but it won't.

But don't have donuts. Don't, don't eat the donut. You don't need the actual sweetness before a workout.

Is there going to be a glucose goddess pre workout donut you could make? That would be good.

How did you know? I'm actually launching it today, exclusively on.

Your podcast, Little Six Pack. Of, like, frosted donuts. Just eat them and go lift. You'd be the world's hero if you could.

You think?

Okay, great. I'm just going to cancel all my other plans and work on that. I think it's genius.

It would probably taste like dog biscuits is the problem.

Totally. You know, another interesting thing? When you wear a glucose monitor, if you add alcohol to a meal, it's going to lower the glucose spike of the meal.

Of course it will.

Of course it will. But, like, it's quite shocking.

Explain why. Go through the steps.

So, alcohol. Okay, so your liver is the organ in your body that is responsible for making sure your glucose levels stay nice and steady. Right. And when you drink alcohol. Alcohol is a poison, and it's not good for you. Newsflash. Your liver is going to be busy dealing with that toxin. And so it's no longer going to be able to push out extra glucose into your bloodstream to keep your glucose levels nice and level. And so on the glucose monitor, you might see, hey, if I add three glasses of wine or three shots of tequila to this bowl of pasta, the glucose spike is so much smaller. But that's not a good way to reduce your glucose spikes. That's a terrible way to reduce your glucose.

And you'll preferentially burn the alcohol calories before all the other ones, which is going to change the slope of the curve. Right. But then you have to pay for the alcohol. Okay. Do you drink?

No, I don't drink, actually.

Not even red wine? What about, like, baguettes? Fresh creamery butter?

My person of choice is sugar. I don't care about alcohol. It doesn't make me feel too good.

But I love sugar, so I love this one thing that I'm.

Do you drink?

You know, if it's older than me, you're all.

They don't make alcohol very, very old.

Yeah. They don't make alcohol that old. So that makes sense. Yeah, it's. It's one of those things where maybe twice a year, yeah, I'll have something. It's just. It's not worth it. But what I'm finding that's actually really exciting is that all of my friends in their. I would say, like, mid-30s, I have a big group in Austin I hang out with.

Yeah.

And either they drink a little bit or they don't drink at all. And for me, oh, my God, we drink all the damn time.

The alcohol industry is making so much money.

Yeah.

Selling you this product that quote unquote helps is very important in your Social life. It's bs. It's marketing. It's a poison. You know, you have to be conscious about these things and not making it. Not make it automatic.

So psychedelic. Mushrooms or wine, which would you take? Mushrooms, MDMA or wine, which would you take?

MDMA.

Definitely 31. That's all I'm saying. Because me too, by the way.

You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm not a big wine person. Alcohol person. I used to drink a lot of alcohol. Margaritas.

All.

All. All day? Not all day, but.

Where do you live now? I.

Between Paris and New York.

Okay. I guess New York, you could get good margaritas. You're not going to find those in Paris. Okay, cool. When you hear Americans talk about the French paradox, what does it make you think?

It makes me think. One, they don't realize what's going on in France. More and more people are sick. Okay? People are getting sick. There's a lot of rates of infertility. There are a lot of problems. Cardiovascular health is a nightmare in France. People are getting diabetes. Like, it's not the paradise that maybe it was once seen as. And second, I do think it's quite obvious when you go to France why we are marginally healthier than Americans. We have a much better culture around food. We still. Every day you come back from work, you go to the grocery store and you buy fresh produce. You go to the cheesemonger, you go to the butcher, you buy fresh food, you go home and you cook it, and you spend time eating with your family. And it hasn't been replaced by junk food or frozen meals. There's still a strong culture around actually cooking. And all of those bad oils, we don't really use them. We use butter and olive oil.

I just read there's 30,000 bakeries in Paris. So you're getting fresh bread made with real grains that mostly don't have glyphosate. But Monsanto, Bayer, SL, slash AG Farbin, if you go back to World War II, those are. They're making inroads to getting glyphosate. And if you guys allow that in Europe, you'll look just like America in another 25 years, except your infertility rates will be higher because there's other chemicals involved too.

So let's hope that doesn't happen.

So 30,000 of those things and you.

Can'T get pastries from the previous day. So if it's 2am and you want a pastry, you have to wait until 7am for the pastry.

What happens to the ones they don't Sell.

I think they sell them all. No. I don't know, actually. Good question.

I mean, I know that the way it would have been is kind of like it was on my farm. You feed them to the pigs or the chickens, right? They go back into the food supply, I'm sure. I don't know. Maybe they give them to people who need food.

Maybe. Yeah.

But it's one of those things where in a healthy, functioning ecosystem, that's what you do. That's one of the reasons you have, like, chickens. They'll eat everything. They're carnivores or omnivores, so. And then you also have a much higher intake of saturated fat. And in America, especially in the 90s and early 2000s, the French paradox was all over the news. Well, why don't French people get heart disease when they eat all that butter? Which cause. Butter doesn't cause heart disease. But I always laughed. And in my head after I learned how this stuff worked, I'm like, it's the American paradox. Why don't Americans just eat like French people?

Exactly.

Like, if that works. And so.

Because it requires cooking time and it requires, you know, I think it's a culture, culture shift that it really requires.

Is it a culture shift or is it an ingredient shift? We have so many weird chemicals that aren't allowed over there. I feel like they. They hijack our brain.

But also, people in France just don't eat in their cars. So it's both.

Is that because the cars are so small they don't have room for their elbows?

No, it's because it's just not a thing. You don't go to drive throughs. You see what I mean?

Drive throughs. I haven't been around in so long.

They're fun. I used to go to, like, Krispy Kreme drive throughs and get a big box of Krispy Kreme. That's so good.

That's like the worst oil.

So good.

If, and I'm just going to say this for the entrepreneurs listening to the show, if there was a donut shop that would use beef tallow and you'd make donuts out of rice flour or something gluten free, I would actually eat them. I would come in and I would get like, I would get a whole box and I would just, like, rub them on my face. So good.

So seriously, somebody comes through and is like, dave, I'm doing that. I need an investment. You're gonna back them, right?

We're gonna have to talk about what grain do you Use white rice flour. Guys. You can do it. I know I make all kinds of stuff with it, but a lot of the gluten replacement flours, like they spike your blood sugar just as much and they contain a lot of toxins like oxalates.

People don't realize gluten is a protein.

That's a fair point.

Right, so actually it does reduce the spike of starch.

Well, you know what else is a protein?

What?

Sarin. Nerve gas.

Sure.

So maybe different proteins do different things. I'm just saying.

True, true, true, true, true.

That's my anti vegan. So plant based protein. Oh, wait, and then I'm. Oh, but snake venom. So like we just have to be conscious of which proteins.

Another thing I hate is when people say, oh, this is 100%. Well, for example, vegan. Yeah, right. It's bullshit. Or it's not because sugar comes from a plant that it is good for you. It's not because something comes from a plant that it is good for you.

High fructose corn syrup is plant based. And vegan tobacco.

Yeah, I mean, you know.

Wait a minute. You're telling me you've never smoked?

Of course I've smoked, but I'm just saying it's not good for you. And it comes from a plant.

Are you sure it's not good for you?

Tobacco? Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure it's not good for you.

Now I don't remember the episode number, but I interviewed.

Do you have somebody promote cigarettes on the show?

I call him Dr. Nicotine.

Okay.

He's from Vanderbilt.

Wait, nicotine is not the same as.

Oh my God. I'm talking to a qualified scientist. This isn't fair. Yes, you're correct. Tobacco is not good for you.

But nicotine is a neuro something.

It's a nootropic. But more importantly. And we're talking like 5% of what's in a cigarette and it stops. Alzheimer's disease. People who smoke don't get Alzheimer's and Parkinson's. It's massive reduction. But then they get lung cancer and cardiovascular disease like you're getting.

So what would you rather die from? You know?

So what I do is I do 1-3mg of nicotine on a regular basis.

And how do you ingest it?

I spray it under my tongue.

No way.

Because if you go to France.

Yeah.

Or anywhere in Europe or Mexico or Canada, you can buy a spray that's 1 milligram goes under your tongue. Do you want to try it?

Yeah, kind of.

Okay. I'm grab a thing. It'll be awesome. Okay, give me one second. I'm going to get this. Okay, here's how it works.

I think I'm gonna figure it out. Show me.

Okay, well, actually, here, try it.

Okay.

It's not as easy you think. Everyone gets confused. You don't want help. I've sprayed this in hundreds of people's mouth at Burning Man. So there's a lock thing. You click it up.

Oh, cute.

And then you spray it like this.

Okay. Just keep it close.

Don't breathe in.

Okay.

There you go. And you can, like. Don't swallow it. Yeah, just like, you can close your mouth and slide it under your tongue. It's minty.

That's very minty.

Guys, you can't buy this in the U.S. lucy, gum in the U.S. is the cleanest source. One milligram.

And how many milligrams are in a cigarette?

20.

Oh, wow.

It can actually be between 12 and 20. Oh, it's pretty amazing.

It doesn't taste so good. I feel amazing now.

Does it hit you?

Whoa, bro. Can you feel it?

Oh, when it hits you, I'm gonna laugh because you'll be like, I did this on the Almost 30 podcast.

Oh, I love them.

They're so cool.

Yeah.

And I sprayed them both, and one of them's like, I feel like I'm rolling now.

Really?

Yeah. Cause it's a pretty potent nootropic, and it stacks really well with psychedelics. But as a longevity compound, think about niacin or nicotinic acid. And then you look at niacinamide, which goes to nicotinamide riboside, or nr, which goes to nmn, which goes to nad. So this affects the nicotinic acid receptors in the brain.

Very cool. Do you become habituated to it? Do you need more and more?

You don't need more and more, but if you use more and more because it's so damn good, then it can. Yeah, you can. So I did one milligram a day for five years.

Wow.

So you just have to be disciplined.

But that's why you're so smart.

I take a lot of nootropics, but then I also maybe wasn't so smart. I'm like, I just love.

Okay, imagine you have this decision to make. Either you keep taking your 200 pills a day, or, okay, so you have to choose between exercise and those pills for the rest of your life. Which one do you choose?

I think I would choose the pills.

Really?

Exercise takes a lot of time. I'm busy. Right.

It's incredible for your health.

You don't need to exercise to get the benefits of exercise. Now people are going to be really pissed about that. Especially like all the, like, you know, weightlifter bros.

But it makes me feel so good to exercise. I love exercising. Yeah, I've been working on this bicep for like 18 months.

Nice.

Pretty good, huh? Tricep.

Can I throw some electrodes on there?

I don't like the electric stuff.

Yeah, but we could add an inch to your bicep right now.

No, I don't want to do that. I don't need more bicep. I'm pretty happy with it. So. Look at the tricep.

You do have a tricep. Michelle Obama arms.

I've been working on these babies. It's not easy.

Is it like pure glucose that did that?

No, it's weight lifting.

How much protein do you eat per day?

I try to get a lot. I try to do one gram per pound of body weight, but I don't get that much.

So how many grams is that?

I'm 70 kilos, so that's 150 pounds.

See, I was trying to ask that question because you're not supposed to ever ask a woman how much she weighs and you're just.

I have no problem with that.

I, I appreciate that.

I have no problem with that because.

People need to be open about it. I love it that you don't have a problem with that.

I have no problem with that. It's like asking how tall I am. I'm six feet. I'm taller than you are.

You're six feet?

Yeah.

You're not taller than me. I'm six, four. But this is gonna sound really funny. I have no idea how tall you are because when you're, when you're the tallest person, almost always everyone is down. If you were 5, 4 or 6ft, I wouldn't see the difference. Like, it wouldn't register with me. Unless you were wearing heels that put you as tall as me. And then I'd be like, oh my God, I'm looking. I love them.

I used to do that. I used to wear heels all the time, but I don't anymore. Yeah, when I first arrived in Silicon Valley, I was like living the Silicon Valley dreams. I was on my bike taking the Cal train, going to Mountain View, and I was wearing heels every day. And I thought I was the coolest person.

Do you ever go to Red Rock Coffee, Mountain View?

Yeah, all the time.

I used to test out the very early formulas For Bulletproof at Red Rock.

Amazing.

Yeah. So what city did you live in in the Bay Area?

I was in San Francisco.

You're in San Francisco. Okay.

But I was working at 23andMe, and they were in Mountain View.

Okay.

Five years.

I. I was there yesterday.

No way.

On the Mind Pump podcast.

What's Mind Pump?

It's apparently a really big show. These are guys from the fitness industry. It was really fun and they're like OG Silicon Valley people. So let's see. I interviewed Sal, who's one of the big fitness leader guys. You should be on the show. I'll introduce you to him.

Cool. Thanks.

And it was neat, though, because I'm like, oh, my God. I know the three companies that were in that building before. It was whatever it is now. And I feel like I have roots there.

Nice.

And it's funny. Red Rock. We were talking about that yesterday on the show too.

I remember they have the entrance and then there's a side door to exit on the left. And I would sit in the little tables.

You go upstairs where all the nerds are working?

No, because the office was really close by. So I'd go get a coffee and go back to the office.

Of course.

Of course.

Wow. Totally good times. What'd you learn in 23andMe?

I learned everything. I learned how you make a product, how you build software, how you a b test stuff, how you give your customers what they want. I learned everything.

So, guys, this is what I wanted you to see. She's freaking smart, right?

Not just pretty. I can think.

So what makes you a goddess?

Just my aura.

I'm trying to channel Bobby off.

You can't do it. You have to be really dead.

I'm trying, but, like, you're funny.

I'll be like, I really want her interview. I want her to be like, so.

She'd be so fun, wouldn't she? I think I gave it back to her.

She'd be like, so self proclaimed glucose goddess. Explain.

Yeah. And whatever you say, it's gonna be wrong. I know.

I love her.

It's an art. Okay. I'm a fan. Put it that way. All right.

Do you have any other serious questions for me or are we just gonna talk about random stuff?

This is a podcast.

This is a very specific type of podcast.

Did you think this was like a news show or some kind of science education?

I thought it would be like a serious podcast or talk about serious stuff.

This is the human upgrade. If you're serious about upgrading yourself, you have to laugh.

How many episodes have you done with this show?

1200, 400.

What was your favorite? Apart from this one, obviously.

It's really hard. One of them that stood out was Daniel P. Brown from Harvard University. You heard of the guy?

No.

He's one of the fathers of attachment theory.

Ooh, amazing.

He studied hypnotism clinically at Harvard for 40 years. And he's near the end of his career, I think almost 80, and has a neurodegenerative thing starting. So he translates 13th century Sanskrit meditation books into English for people. And I just asked him, hey, was this MK Ultra stuff real? And he goes, dave, I spent a hundred hours with Sirhan Sirhan. This is the guy who killed one of the Kennedys. And he said, as an expert in hypnotherapy, like the most credentialed expert on the planet with 100% certainty, he was programmed to kill.

Wow.

And he said, we know how he was programmed, we know who programmed, we know when it was, we know where it was. And I'm like, on my little podcast, it's not that little, but it's not that big. I'm like, this is proof from a direct witness of one of the biggest conspiracies ever talked about. And I go, they should do a documentary on you. And he goes, oh, they did. And then they deleted my eight minute segment and audited my taxes for seven years. So, wow, okay. That was an epic podcast because, oh, my God, like, this guy's just a modern master, but then you've got like, Robert Greene, laws of power. His work changed my life. And then Eric Kandel, Nobel Prize winner for discovering neuroplasticity. He's 94 in New York City. You should meet him. And he's still got a lab doing genetics and, like, running around like the happiness of a child.

I want to do that when I'm 80. 80 or 90, you said?

I think he was about 90.

That's great.

And he was 94, right? And then Stan Grof, the guy who used LSD on his patients legally in the 50s and created really transpersonal psychology. So I don't know, it's Sometimes I'm just, how do I get to be so lucky to talk to these smart people who are doing stuff, including you?

Thanks, Dave.

Appreciate that. And I mean that really, because talking about science in a way that people understand so that we understand what's being done to us. I don't like the passive voice in that sense, but what some bad people, and we all maybe know who they are, maybe we don't but someone's doing bad things. And if people know what you're teaching them, I think you're making a really big difference.

Thank you. And that's what I care the most about. Giving people their agency, their freedom, their education back. And that's the sort of individual level work. We also obviously need way more regulation in the food industry, but I think both things.

Do we need more regulation?

Yeah, we need to not be able to advertise junk food to kids on tv. We need to not put cartoons in cereal boxes. We need to not be able to put no added sugars on a product that has 50 grams of sugar per serving. Yeah, we do need more regulation.

It feels like when you ask for regulation, you get what America has. You think, well, the regulators actually not only allowed this, they mandated it. Cheerios are heart healthy.

Yeah, that's crazy.

It's crazy. But this is what happens if you give people the power of regulation. What I want is education and recommendations from my government that I'm free to ignore.

Sure.

Like in France right now, shout out to the French protesters and farmers, whatever is in your DNA. You guys are the best protesters on the planet. I am so inspired when I see just like full on manure blowers, just shooting it all over. Hopefully the politicians themselves, but certainly over their residences and all. Keep burning tires, doing whatever you gotta do, like farmer rights and all that. So I'm always inspired when I see French Protestants.

Do you go to France a lot?

I can't say a lot, but I really enjoy going to France. Mostly because I'm going to say this. My kids speak French fluently. I don't. So I don't. I can't hear the sounds of French. Like my auditory processing from being, you know, I was autistic. Like I had. I was at Asperger's syndrome. So my auditory processing's a bit weird. French and Swedish just sound like I.

Was in an Uber yesterday and I was speaking French on the phone. He's like, are you Swedish? Swedish? I said, no, I'm French. He's like, what? Really?

I could hear that. Your accent could be a little.

Maybe it's the accent. Yeah, but in French I don't have an accent.

Of course. Because it's your native language. Right. So it's. So it's so interesting. So anytime I go there, I can eat a croissant or two and I take gluten enzymes and there's no glyphosate and it's a different species of wheat. And so I kind of Have a.

Because generally, you can't eat gluten here.

In the U.S. you know, I tried it. This. I. I might have talked about this maybe a month ago. I'm at beautiful restaurant Austin. They have sourdough, and it's with, like, mushrooms and stuff. So I'm like, I don't have two bites of sourdough, and the next day, like, pimples everywhere. Guts wrecked. This sucks. But last time I was in France.

You're fine.

Yeah. You know, I'll eat.

It's not the same.

I'll eat three croissants. Like, don't even stop me. Yeah. And. But when I do it, I'm like, do you have more butter? And they're looking like, these Americans are gross. And I'm just, like, putting.

You want to, like, open the croissant, put some ham inside?

You know, I just put butter, like. Like four big things of butter. And they're just. Because I know it's for my blood glucose. Is that a bad idea or a good idea?

It's a better idea than putting a bunch of Nutella in your croissant.

Okay, fair point.

But it's all relative.

It's all relative.

I don't think you need to put more butter in a croissant.

Just like it.

I get it, I get it, I get it. It depends on the intention and what you would do otherwise.

I would eat the butter anyway.

Okay. I have a question. Would you. Okay, slab of butter unsalted, on a plate. Like, the big ones, not the thin ones. Would you be able to eat that with a fork and a knife? How much in one sitting?

I can eat half. It would be hard to digest a whole stick of butter. Do you mean like, the Kerrygold double sticks or. I could do half of one of those. I remember I was at south by Southwest a while ago, and I was just getting the bulletproof thing going, and I was starving, and there was no good food there. So I bought a stick of butter at a local store, and I was just eating it, and someone, like, someone was interviewing me, and I was just taking bites of it, and they were just horrified. I'm like, I'm in ketosis right now. I need food. But what I found is eating butter does something entirely different than blending butter into a sauce or blending it into coffee or tea or whatever. And that's to do with lipid and water chemistry. And it, like, why should coffee work if you blend it for 20 seconds, but you can't eat the butter and drink the coffee? And it turns out there's a whole reason, and in fact, it might be interesting for you and for listeners, something about.

What's it called? Not osmosis, but the thing that happens.

Tell me, have you heard of exclusion zone water?

Probably, but I have no recollection.

Okay, so there's a guy from the University of Washington, a researcher who's also been doing this for decades, Gerald Pollock, his name. And he's doing research on water in cells. And he identified, he has a well known book called the Fourth Phase of Water, where when you put water up against a lipid membrane, it changes the viscosity of the water to make it more viscous and it's not absorbing the fat and you can see it on a microscope. This is not fanciful quantum water, although that might work also. But okay, it's real. And he says for you to make heat, for you to make electricity, or for you to fold a protein in a cell, you have to have this kind of water inside the cell. So what our bodies do is we drink water and then we hold the water up against our cell membranes, we make 1200 nanometer light body heat, right? And then that transforms the water from bulk water into exclusion zone water, and then we can use it to make energy. Hmm.

What do you think of the hydrogen rich water that's all the rage, you say? Is that a legit thing?

It's legit. I interviewed Tyler Baron, I believe is his last name on the show probably six years ago, about that. And I've, I've had hydrogen makers. My buddy TK makes life force water now, which is repackaged. It's actually what I'm using in upgrade labs. The reason hydrogen matters, though, is it turns off peroxy nitrite in cells, but leaves the other oxidants that are stimulants for mitochondrial growth. So if you were to eat like that crazy cake, you should have some hydrogen water with us.

We have to eat that cake, by.

The way, I'm super up for that cake. All right. We just have to find a free cake. Yeah, right. And no almonds either. Stupid oxalates.

And no kale.

We'd have one piece of kale on top. I kind of like throw away the little decoration on the top. Just throw the kale against the wall.

Nice. Love it. Fucking love it. I really want cake now.

You could eat the kale just for the fiber.

Okay, thanks.

All right. Yeah, I'll save it for you.

Appreciate it.

So this water thing, and it really affects cellular metabolism. And the reason that the Tibetans make yak butter tea. I was so kind of tortured when I went to remote parts of Tibet and I went to Mount Kailash. And I was feeling really bad because I hadn't fixed my metabolism all the way. I'd lost a lot of the weight. And I drank yak butter tea at high elevation. Felt really good. And I watched this little Tibetan woman, they walk like a quarter mile, break ice on a river, get water, bring it back, heat it up over yak dung to make tea, and instead of just drinking the damn tea and eating some butter like sane people, they put the butter in the butter churn, pour the boiling water in, and this lady sits there for, like 10 minutes, like, mixing it by hand. Cha chunk, cha chunk, cha chunk. And I'm like, why are they doing that? And then you drink it because it works. They're making the tea into exclusions on water, like fruit juice would be.

That's incredible.

And when they drink it, they can make body heat right away because they don't have enough food.

Wow.

And you see these little guys half my size carry three times as much as me wearing T shirts. And it's 10 degrees below zero, and all they eat is a little bowl of barley and yak butter tea.

It's amazing when science starts to uncover some cultural traditions and why they actually work. I think it's amazing anything like we made. Humans created boats before they understood how boats even worked. I mean, we've done so much stuff before understanding how it works.

Well, even fire.

For sure. For sure. Everything, really.

Do you think we know how fire works?

Fire is actually a conspiracy.

Like birds. They're not real.

Yeah. Fire is not real. Don't know if you knew that.

Fire is just a lack of cold. Right?

Yeah.

Yeah. Very scientific. The whole universe is actually on fire. And it's coldness that allows life.

Exactly there. Exactly. Okay, you got it.

You went to the same conspiracy school I did. Tell me about your 2700 person span. It's actually really cool.

Thank you. My second book, the first book, 10 Hacks. That's the one that was not a New York Times bestseller yet. I know, it's really embarrassing, but the second book was so. Second book. Four core hacks. Savory breakfast, Vinegar, Veggie starter, and movement after eating. And all of these are based on lots of studies that have been done across the world.

They totally work. These are great recommendations.

They're amazing hacks. They really, really work. But I also wanted to run my own little experiment. So it's not a placebo controlled Double blind randomized control trial. We're just talking about self reported data from these 3,000 people that I recruited off Instagram to go through the four week method and tell me how they were doing. So you add these four hacks and you don't change anything else about your life. You eat all the stuff you usually eat. You drink all the stuff you usually drink. You just add the four hacks, savory breakfast, vinegar, veggies and walking. And after the four weeks, the results were incredible. We see 90% of people have more energy and have fewer cravings, 67% of people sleep better, 40% of people with diabetes start putting the diabetes into remission. I mean, stats that are, you know, pharma level stats just by adding these four hacks in and doing nothing else.

I would like to believe you, but did you do a double blind placebo controlled study?

No.

Why not? Are you not a real scientist?

I didn't have $10 million.

I'm so, I'm so teasing you because even if you had $10 million, how would you double blind placebo control for stuff people know?

You could do vinegar placebo control.

You could do fake vinegar.

It would be hard to do a savory breakfast placebo controlled. But what we could have done was tested that versus four weeks of government recommendation for lowering glucose levels, for example. That would have been really, really cool.

That would have been super cool.

So that's the second book. That's the glucose goddess method.

I like that. And that's a relatively large sample size.

Yeah. But again, it's just an experiment. It was not a study per se.

Right. For all the scientists listening, I did something similar to test butter in green logo coffee. That's not mold tested versus mold tested coffee with or without butter. And on six of seven university validated cognitive performance things. Butter in coffee, moldy or not, improves cognition.

Nice.

And if it's mold free coffee, it worked even better. Right. So again, not double blind because you can taste bad coffee versus good coffee. And you, you can't hide butter and coffee. And if you put like canola oil. Yeah. Margarine and coffee, it's, it's like, it's not.

I used to do the butter and coffee thing back in the day.

Did you really?

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

I'm honored.

I was like a big, big follower.

So I like created.

You created the Christopher's God. I would be nothing without you. I would be nothing without you. Somehow you invented me.

I actually think I invented this entire universe.

That makes sense. You're kind Of God, actually.

Well, I mean, of my own universe. But wouldn't that also make you got to be goddess of your own universe? So is your universe, like, made with candy canes and stuff?

Chocolate. And cats. I love cats.

Cats? You love cats? Do you know about toxoplasmosis?

Of course I do.

So do you have it?

I don't know. Actually, I want to test it. Yeah.

Because it increases risk taking in people.

Oh, nice.

Right?

I'm pretty crazy.

Yeah. The crazy cat lady thing is real.

I think when I'm 90, I'll end up with like 25 cats. I'll be so happy.

Well, I mean, they program you to do that.

Totally. They take over your brain.

So. Do you know many times when I make fun of cats and guys, I like cats, too, but just out of a sense of humor. Well, people who love cats. I'm putting love cats now, but people get really mad about this. And by the way, if. If I say that I don't like cats, and I actually do like cats, but I wouldn't want to live with one because of toxoplasmosis and stuff.

People shouldn't get mad. You're. That's not like cats.

No.

Like, for example, I don't like you. You don't get mad.

I'm a hip cat. Was that, like, in the 50s they used that language? Yeah, so. But some people will unfollow if you say anything bad about cats. Those are the people with toxoplasmosis. I'm not even kidding. Like, I'm sorry. Guys, like, you need to get treated.

Oh, my God, I'm dead. People will unfollow you if you say something bad about cats. I'm not surprised.

Yeah. And it's not like I'm saying mean stuff about cats.

You're just saying, I don't like cats.

Yeah, but I do like cats. I just don't want them in my house.

Yeah. You're not obsessed with cats?

Yeah.

That's so funny.

You know the difference between a cat and a dog?

No.

Okay. If you die in your home, the dog will sit next to your body and starve to death, protecting you.

The cat will eat you.

It'll eat your eyeballs.

Really?

Yeah. They do that? Yeah.

So smart.

Do you still like cats?

I love cats. That's so smart.

Eyes are nutritious.

I don't know, actually.

Have you ever eaten an eyeball?

No. Have you?

Yeah. You ever go to a sushi restaurant?

I eat this. The eggs.

You can get like fish eyes. Big old Round one.

I'm not interested.

They have like a white marble.

Not interested in.

Yeah.

Basically eating with you is like 200 pills, butter and fish eyeballs. That's dinner with Dave.

I'll do fish eggs, but you have to cover it with a giant two pound rib eye. And then I'm down.

Okay.

Okay.

All right, Fascinating.

Back to your study.

But this just goes to show, right, this experiment.

Yeah.

If you have any issues you want to fix, if you could feel better than you currently do, adding these four hacks costs nothing.

Yeah.

It's completely free. It's super easy. Anybody can do it, and you can start feeling much better. And this is the stuff that I started implementing in my own life that helped me so much. And I think this should be taught in schools. I think we're operating the same level as brush your teeth, wear sunscreen, drink water, don't eat sugar for breakfast. That's the level at which I hope that my work operates. And I hope I become completely useless and completely irrelevant because this stuff is so obvious. Like, imagine if I had started an Instagram account that was all about why you should brush your teeth. Nobody would care. Right. And I want this information to become so obvious that people stop caring about me. I want to become irrelevant.

That's the objective, the goal for everyone I know who genuinely is in the health influencing game. Because it matters, not because they're just trying to make a quick buck. It's that if we had the manual for how to run your body the right way, we don't need to be doing this. There's lots of other things I'd like to do. This just feels like the most important work I can be doing now. Or at least some of it. And same for you. Like, the benefits you get from these four steps are so dramatic, even in the world of longevity.

Absolutely.

Or let's talk fertility. What do you know about glucose and fertility?

Well, if you're on a glucose roller coaster, spike, dip, spike, dip. Your hormonal system cannot function properly. Excess insulin in the body causes ovaries in a female body to produce more testosterone. You can end up in a situation where you have too much testosterone in a female body. This is often called pcos. You start getting symptoms like balding on the head, hair growth on the face, missed periods, cystic ovaries, etc. What's usually done when you have PCOS or these symptoms? You're given the birth control pill.

Why?

Because the pill contains freaking female hormones. Brings the balance back up. Now you're equal. Symptoms Go away. You're not solving the underlying issue at all. So many women who get off the pill because they are trying to get pregnant and they're like, dude, I'm not ovulating. What's going on? Because you have PCOS underlying too much testosterone, you have to fix it. The first place to book is insulin resistance and food. It is not the only reason, but about 60 to 70% of PCOS cases go hand in hand with insulin resistance. So if you get that insulin resistance down, you're going to help your hormones function better. And it also goes for menopause symptoms, right? During the menopause, if you have super irregular blood sugar, we see in studies higher rates of insomnia, hot flashes, etc. Glucose levels is. It's the foundation of a healthy body. You cannot be healthy if you're going like this all day or if you're fasting glucose. So too high.

The mother of my children had PCOS and was infertile. Karolinska trained medical doctor and I ended up putting together the program for the better baby book with her, did all the shopping, all the cooking, probably like you would do in France. You went to the farmer's market all the time. And we had two kids. And to this day she runs a fertility coaching practice with just a small number of clients. But getting rid of the insulin resistance was a major part of it for sure. And a lot of that was getting rid of the bad fats. And she was doing soy milk right when I met her. And so we had to get rid of the soy milk, which has its own estrogens in it. And then it seems like there's also a fungal component. So much of the time there's Candida, or toxic mold, that's behind pcos, which also cause insulin resistance. So getting those things down for people who have PCOS and it's. It's all over the place, right?

The rates are going up like crazy.

They are.

I think it's one in six females.

What do you think about the birth control pill?

I mean, I think it depends, right? If it's used like this to mask symptoms. I don't think it's a solution because it's not doing anything to help the underlying issue. But I don't have any opinions or judgment on whether somebody takes it.

I don't have any judgment. I think birth control is a basic human right. I will say though, that the birth control pills that contain chemicals or hormones are. They're a crime against women. They are so bad for your health and they don't tell you when they give them to you, like, oh, here, just have these. It'll, you know, solve your PMS or whatever.

For acne, right? Yeah, everything. So you have a problem here, take the pill. But I think that's changing now. People are realizing it's not at all a good move.

Yeah, it's. It's maybe in. If you're 30 or something. The number of women who are on the pill at some time in their life in the US anyway is 85%. And I think it's.

And when you're 14, they give you the pill. Oh, you have pimples here.

And it affects your ability to see the world and affects everyone around you too. And I. Hormones are so important, even for blood sugar regulation.

Absolutely.

Right. Do you know anything about estrogen levels or testosterone levels and what they do to glucose? No, I don't either.

What I do know is that the week before your period, your fluctuating hormones will create a bigger glucose spike in your body for the same food. So the chocolate cake, you know, week after period spike, but week right before period, bigger spike. Interesting food. Right. But the hormonal fluctuations, progesterone, estrogen fluctuations will impact your glucose metabolism. So. And that's the problem because when you have a big spike before your period, then you have a big crash in cravings. Right. A crash in glucose levels activates the craving center in your brain. So all those cravings that you have before you're about to break, get your period. It's not the only cause, but one of the causes can be being on this glucose roller coaster all day. So use the hacks even more if you're prone to PMS cravings.

It's interesting, there's a couple of friends I've been like, I wrote forwards for their books and things. Aggie and Melanie Avalon have written books on biohacking or intermittent fasting for women in particular. And I have a chapter with all the studies for women in. In fastest way. I'd look to call out, but sometimes there just aren't studies.

Yeah, a lot of studies have been done on men.

I think that you could. You could really have a good leadership position. Might be a book about that, about literally just how to control your blood sugar at different parts of your cycle. It's like, yeah, it's a thing that's unique for biohacking in women versus men.

That's true. However, in my first book, glucose revolution, the 10 hacks, they apply across the board to everybody. So that's the place Start.

I'm the same way. Like biohacking's for everyone, right? And then. But the nuances that are there, that are only apply to women. And there's different nuances for men too. Like our stress levels and sleep and stuff are different than women. But it feels like what you just said there. Everyone talks about fasting, but they don't talk about how much sugar you can tolerate and how great your fast.

I've never been a big, big fasting person. If you want to fast and it feels good to you, that's great. But again, remember, it's a stressor to your body. So if you're just fasting, 14 hours overnight is plenty already. And what's even more important is how you're. What are you actually eating the rest of the time?

Oh, that matters. So key, there was a study in fastest way. It was from Australia. Three 12 hour fasts per week started to show benefits in middle aged women.

But that's just sleeping.

Well, no, a lot of people eat right before they go to bed. They eat when they wake up. So it means stop eating after dinner and then don't eat right away when you wake up up.

Okay, well that's great.

Just doing that three times a week. They saw like a 0.1% ketone improvement, but metabolic improvements.

And then when you break your fast, have something savory or start with veggies, have butter and fish eyes and Dave's 200 supplement pills. That's the best way to break your fast, everybody. No, seriously, the best way is something savory, protein or some fiber. Avoid the orange juice, the fruit smoothie.

That's something I love about your work. I've for years been like, don't eat fruit for breakfast. It's the dumbest thing you could do. It's gonna set you up all day. But people do it all the time.

You know, fruit that you see today in supermarkets and stuff, it's not natural at all. As you know, it's the outcome of thousands of years of crossbreeding. Like we created chihuahuas from gray wolves and all these from breeds of dogs. We created oranges and bananas and apples. They're not natural fruit. They have been created to be super sweet, low in fiber, easy to eat. They're human inventions. So it's not because you buy a piece of whole fruit that it is natural and good for you. Yes, it's good because it has some fiber in it. But then when you denature it and you juice it or you smoothie it, it becomes just Sugar water. You have to be super cautious. And your body doesn't care whether sugar came from an orange and is now in an orange juice or if the sugar came from a beetroot or a cane and is now in a can of Coca Cola. It's the same amount of sugar. Sugar. 25 grams. 25 grams to your body, it is the same. And people will say, yes, but the orange juice contains some vitamins. The thing is, if you put some vitamins in a can of Coke, you would still not think it's that healthy for you. Well, the orange juice is just a can of Coke with vitamins in it.

Exactly.

Yeah. And people go crazy when I say, I'd rather drink a can of Diet Coke instead of a glass of orange juice. Like that is. That is. You know, people go wild. But I stand by it. 25 grams of sugar in a can of orange juice is not something that's good for me.

It's not good for you even in the slightest.

It's dessert. Right? It's for pleasure. It's for fun. It's for enjoyment. It's not for health.

Jesse, this has been so much fun to connect.

Thanks, Dave.

Chat about.

And thanks for inviting me after ghosting me for, like, five years and ignoring me and M for finally cool enough for you. So I really. I'm really happy about that.

You know, it's. It's still up for debate. Yeah.

Talk about it.

I think you might be cool enough when you have 4 million followers. You're just doing such cool stuff. So true appreciation. Keep leading. Tell people the easy things. And thanks for being smart.

Thanks, Martin.

Got it.

Thanks for the Nick team.

Did you really?

Yeah. That was fun.

All right, guys, if you like this episode, follow Glucose Goddess. Do some squats after you eat the kale thing. I don't know. And whenever we have our giant cake.

We'Ll take a video.

Yeah, we'll. We'll video it. You're listening to the Human Upgrade with Dave Asprey.

A Human Upgrade, formerly Bulletproof Radio, was created and is hosted by Dave Asprey. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider, carefully read all labels and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call or see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of Guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Bulletproof Media. A Human Upgrade, formerly Bulletproof Radio, was created and is hosted by Dave Aspen. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing, or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider carefully, read all labels, and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call or see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of Guests are their own and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products and services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Bulletproof Media.