Do Less to Get More – Kate Northrup : 654

And we might be doing things just because we're upholding some standard that if we really were to check in with.

Our hearts and souls, they're not actually bringing us joy.

So I believe things need to either.

Bring us results or bring us joy.

And if they don't bring us results.

Or joy, then they have no business in our lives. So does this actually need to be done? Is the first question.

Bulletproof Radio, a state of high performance.

You're listening to Bulletproof Radio with Dave Asprey. Today's cool fact of the day. I hate to say it, but there's a new study from public health researchers at Victoria University. This is the Victoria University in Melbourne. They spell it Melbourne, but you're supposed to say Melbourne. This is because I like all my Australian friends and followers. Anyway, people who run as little as once a week have lower risk of early death compared to people who don't run at all. In fact, any amount of running was associated with a 27% lower risk of premature death. Now, why do I not like to talk about this study? Actually, I'm happy to talk about any study. But generally, running a lot and running regularly has an 80% chance of causing an injury the first year you start and generally can result in over the course of decades, which is the timeframe that we're talking about here, in new knees, new hips, and all sorts of bad things happening. So I'm going to tell you a cardio instead of running might be better. But what they did find in this study, which was interesting, was there's no significant difference between frequency, duration or pace. And they went from running no more than once a week for less than 50 minutes to running every day for a weekly total of 250 minutes. And this was based on a meta analysis, which means they looked at 14 other studies of 230,000 people and published it in the British Journal of Sports Medicine. So what I'm going to do is just generalize this and say based on head strong and the very strong data in Superhuman, my new anti aging book. Seriously, you got to move. Whether you have to actually run versus ride a bike or swim probably doesn't matter. And so there you go. More data that says that you ought to do something. And if you wanted to make that running even more tolerable, put on an episode of Bulletproof Radio like today's maybe, and then just close your eyes, do that unpleasant exercise, get it over with, check the box. Maybe you'll live longer. If not, you'll just be smarter and better looking.

Okay.

At least one of the three.

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If you're not following my brand of weird biohacker humor, you really should be. And you should follow my Instagram page Dave Asprey. A few hundred thousand followers like my weird humor and I promise you there will be pictures of my turkeys, my pigs and my sheep. Or at least little videos on my stories. It's actually kind of cool to see that I really do what I say I do. Now today's guest is someone else who does what she says she's going to do. We are talking about Kate Northrup. She's an entrepreneur, best selling author, speaker and mom. And she focuses on doing something near and dear to my heart. Doing less and working fewer hours while raising two small kids. And just wrote a book about it. That is worth your time listening to this, even if you're not a mom, even if you don't have two kids or one kid or any kids. Because her mindset and her thinking is relevant to all of us around. Just not wasting time on stuff that doesn't matter. Kate, welcome to the show.

Hi. Thanks so much for having me.

Why did you decide you were going to build a company? As a mother of two young kids, isn't that the worst time to build a company?

Well, actually, here's the good news. I started my company before I had kids.

So we were well underway by the time we started having kids.

Though I work with a lot of women who do decide and here's what's really crazy. And there is something that happens. It's very common.

This is purely anecdotal that I know so many women who get this crazy burst of creativity at the same time as having kids.

And it's not optimal timing.

But at the same time, I really believe that creating a human stimulates your creativity on a lot of other levels as well.

I didn't think we'd go there in this interview, but I truly think that starting a company or a movement is energetically the same as having a baby.

Oh, absolutely.

And that's not to say that the physical parts of having a baby aren't different and difficult, but there's something that both parents energy does, but in particular the moms, that is it's around expanding and growing and being a container and all that. And it's what they don't talk about for entrepreneurs that you're going to have to do that. And that energy comes from somewhere. Usually your coffee.

Yes.

So your book Do Less, it just has the right title. It has everything. But I have a sense of skepticism here because so many moms, including some of my wife, my wife's a medical doctor and a fertility coach for highly successful people. And she sees people who are women who are CEOs of startups and then they have babies and they get what Lana's Calling a mommy brain for some amount of time, Particularly really smart, driven, focused women. It's almost like Mother Nature's like, hey, it's time to slow down, focus on nursing, focus on the nest. Which to some women can almost be like a loss of identity. Like, my memory doesn't work the way it's supposed to. Like, I'm so emotional. I'm sensitive to sounds. Did any of that stuff affect you right in the middle of this?

I love that question. Yeah, it's actually why I wrote the book.

Because motherhood.

I mean, I've always been a super high achiever, straight A student. All the check boxes and becoming pregnant actually completely knocked me out. And I got the pregnancy brain big time. And it was. And then. And then giving birth was a whole thing.

And then having the baby, I just didn't know who I was anymore because I had completely identified with doing and.

With being capable and with being smart and with achieving things that you could see. And now I didn't know who I was anymore because I could not do those things at the same pace that I had done before right at the beginning.

Now, over time, I have learned how.

To actually achieve the same or more with less doing.

But in all honesty, right in those early days of pregnant, of having a newborn, I wasn't, you know, I don't know.

Women can do whatever they want.

For me, it was not the right.

Time to be out, like, kicking butts and kicking butts and taking names.

So you did it anyway, though, and decided to write a book about what you did. What was the first thing, the first moment of realization that, all right, I'm gonna have to change my priorities or change my practices. Tell me the time that it hit you.

It wasn't a conscious thing.

It was like a body thing.

So my body just took me out during pregnancy.

I was so tired, and I kept waiting for the second trimester where all my friends were like, oh, it's so.

Great, and you'll get this huge burst of energy. You'll want to have sex all the time.

And one of my girlfriends was like, I wrote five book proposals during my second trimester.

And I was like, okay, cool, I can't wait.

And that never happened. I just got more tired and more swollen and more huge.

And my body just.

I could not work the same hours I used to.

And then during that first year of.

Parenthood, I struggled with postpartum anxiety, postpartum insomnia. So I wasn't sleeping. As we know, sleep is so critical to our well being on so many levels. So that knocked me out. And we had very little childcare because I thought I was supposed to be superwoman and be able to run a business and take care of a baby at the same time and blah, blah, blah. It was a very hard year.

Basically at year one, we sat with.

Our accountant and we're looking at our.

Numbers for our company and realized we had made the same amount of revenue working, both of us, less than half.

The amount we had ever worked prior in our adult lives.

And so even though I would never want to go back and repeat that.

First year of parenthood because it was fairly hellish for us, I looked at.

That and I thought, well, if we.

Could make the same amount of revenue in less than half the amount of time because we were forced to, what if we took some of what we were doing by accident and did it on purpose and in a far less stressful situation? And also, P.S. we're not that special. So there's got to be something here that other people could apply to their lives.

So what's the first step you recommend for someone? And I'm going to generalize this a little bit so someone who's just overwhelmed and say for a woman who's feeling overwhelmed right now, because certainly pregnancy, having two young kids, that's a recipe for overwhelm.

Yes, it is.

It is.

Just because of the constant interruptions, okay? Circadian disruption plus. Mommy, look, mommy, look. I just wanted to send this one email and it's going to help.

Put.

Bread on the table, gluten free organic hippie bread and all that. But that is incredibly stressful. So let's say someone's just dealing with that. I have this overwhelm. What's the first thing that you tell them to do?

So I really recommend, I think overwhelm is often a recipe.

It comes from, yes, it's like feeling.

Like we have too much to do.

But really what overwhelm comes from is.

Not having clear priorities. So I used to struggle a lot with priorities. I understand everything feels important, especially when you have a two year old, you know, calling your name every two seconds. In my case, I have a 19 month old and a four year old calling my name every two seconds.

And. But I do recommend making, literally doing.

A brain dump and making a list, because when things swirl in our minds, they. It's like you add fertilizer to them, they explode, they become bigger than they actually are.

But when you do a brain dump and you write down a list of the things that you think you have to do or the things that you.

Have on your plate. And then I recommend asking the following three questions about the items on that list.

One of them, the first one is, and I do this every single week.

At the beginning of the week, because most of us think that in order to be more successful, we need to add more to our plate. But the vast majority of us, in order to be more successful in whatever way that means for you, we need to take things off of our plate. We need to do less.

And so first question is, does this.

Need to be done?

Like, does this actually need to be done? So so often we get caught up in these idealized projections of what our lives are supposed to be or what motherhood is supposed to be or marriage is supposed to be. And a lot of them are based on unconscious, inherited beliefs from, from our culture, from our families, from our religious upbringing. And we might be doing things just because we're upholding some standard that if we really were to check in with our hearts and souls, they're not actually bringing us joy. So I believe things need to either.

Bring us results or bring us joy.

And if they don't bring us results.

Or joy, then they have no business in our lives.

So does this actually need to be done?

Is the first question.

And so an example of something that.

You might write down on your list that doesn't actually need to be done.

Is like let's say you decided you.

Needed to be in charge of the entire bake sale for your kids school and bake all gluten free, amazing organic baked goods.

Well, does that second part actually need to be done like the handmade, Every single thing. I mean, I think that a bake.

Sale is a bad example for your.

Particular podcast, but that's like an example.

We really have to get rigorous with ourselves.

And then the second question is, does it need to be done by me? So here's where we get into the aspect of the fact that we are.

Programmed to believe that the more we do, and ideally the more we do alone, the more valuable we are as a human being. That's really a core belief that's running the show, even if we're not conscious of it and having us be over doers.

And the truth is largely if something needs to be done, a lot of the times it doesn't need to be done by you. I mean, I've even begun to delegate things to my 19 month old for, I mean, simple stuff. But like the other day, you know, there was a piece of trash on the floor and I Said Ruby, can you pick that up and take it to the garbage? And she totally did. And I didn't have to get up from reading. It was great. So start them early. And then the third question is, does it need to be done right now? And this one's incredibly helpful, because if something doesn't need to be done today or this week, it really doesn't belong in your consciousness.

It belongs either in your project management software or. Or on your calendar at a future time. So you can take it out of the swirl.

It sounds really, really good. And by the way, I agree with you. Especially for entrepreneurs, like, if someone else can do it, why the heck are you doing it? And for moms, that means laundry.

Oh, for sure.

Delegate the laundry as soon as humanly possible.

Actually, I'm going to be a little bit outrageous here. I'm going to say that's not just for moms. That's for women entrepreneurs in general. Because I've spent a lot of time talking to entrepreneurs, both before I got known for Bulletproof and after. And if I'm in a room full of primarily women entrepreneurs, they're carrying so many household tasks that they learned when they were seven is what you do to be a good girl. And they're still doing it and trying to run a company and a family and like, stop. Like, that's the lowest hanging fruit. What was your lowest hanging fruit? Like, the thing that you were doing that was the least value added of anything out there.

Do you want a business answer or a personal answer?

Personal.

A personal answer.

Like the whole food thing. I mean, the three meals a day and the snacks, and then they want to eat again. I just. That I have really. And we continue to go in and.

Out, but I did delegate, and I had somebody come in and make our food. It was the greatest decision I've ever made in my life, because my value to my children is not in me needing to make all the food. It's in making sure they are fed. And so that was a big one, because I was noticing it was taking up a lot of mental space for me, and I need that mental space for other things other than figuring out what's for dinner.

Now that sounds really wonderful. I mean, look at you. Look at me. We're both in a position where, oh, did you have a cook come in? Did they drive the Bentley? You're a successful author. People say this crap to me all the time. I'm like, my car's seven years old, guys. I live in the middle of nowhere, and there's actually no one to hire to do that. And we cook our own food. In fact, we grow it ourselves. But the perception that, oh, you've had some level of success, you're Kate Northrup, that you can do it, but how is someone who hasn't had a level of economic success someone who's working, you know, eight or ten hours a day and commuting home, they have to put food on the table and they're the one who cooks it or no one eats. What's your advice for, for, for that? Because that's how most of us are living.

So I'm going to quote my friend.

Sarah Jenks and she said to me the other day, in our companies, in our companies it's 2019, you know, and women are there earning money still at.

A lower rate than men, but they're there in our homes, it's 1950. So you pointed at it already.

Even when you're in a room with full of female entrepreneurs, you know, they're still thinking that they need to be doing the laundry in order to be the good girl.

We are not keeping up at home with feminism.

So now listen, I understand not everybody is married. Not everybody is a heterosexual couple. However, if you are in a situation where you are married to a heterosexual cisgender man, you need to divide up.

The tasks and stop expecting yourself to hold the whole thing. Because somehow that's going to make you a better woman. Doing more laundry and cooking more meals is not going to make you a better woman. So I really recommend, and Mike and I did this, we wrote down on pieces of paper every area of our lives and every single thing that needed to happen in every area of our lives. And we went through and he chose the thing that he loves to do.

I chose the things that I love to do. And then we both made, we both marked off the things that we absolutely hate to do.

And so we looked at, okay, what actually has to happen on this list.

What doesn't need to happen, who's going to do what that, and for many.

Of you, meal, meals don't need to be yours every single day. And especially as your children get older, you can pull them in as well. Because especially when they're in that like 7, 8, 9, 10, they're actually still.

Really excited about helping and contributing.

And the earlier we get them as.

Contributing factors in our families, the better for their well being for the rest of their lives.

Amen. 100% agreement. And I'm going to offer a parenting hack and then I want you to judge me for whether I'm doing this right or not.

Well, I'm not a parenting expert. I'm just a parent.

I know, but you're also talking about doing less, and so I share that with you. Look, the reason that we've had kids throughout all of history, aside from the fact that our mitochondria tell us that if we don't have sex frequently, that we'll die because they really want us to reproduce the petri dish, that is the way our mitochondria reproduce themselves. But aside from that is that we had kids because we needed free labor. And child labor is the sweetest because it's done by children who don't have any choice about it, because you can tell them you don't feed them. Okay, that was dark. But that's kind of how it works. And if you go Back to the 1950s, the kids went out into the fields and they did the work. So I told my kids, all right, as soon as you're old enough, your job is either set the table, you clear the table, because I'm not doing it, especially if I'm the one cooking dinner, or Lana is. And I said, you're going to get an allowance. It's going to be a dollar a day. And man the amount of complaining. So then I looked at them, I said, all right, here's the deal. You get a dollar for doing it without whining, and you get a dollar for doing it. And if you do a crappy job, you don't get either one. And that day, the kids stopped whining. Because it's like, look, if you whine, you make less allowance. And that's worked for five years. They don't whine about their stuff. They just say, okay, I'm gonna do it.

I love it.

They whine about other stuff, but what do you think? Good idea, bad idea?

So I think that if it. Hey, does it create results or joy or both?

Less whining equals joy for any parent. Let's just.

And your table is set and cleared. I mean, I.

Listen, I don't know. My kids aren't old enough to do.

Those things, but I'm getting them on board as soon as possible.

And we will absolutely be incentivizing, because.

I will say, growing up, my parents are wonderful. And there were certain things that we.

Had to do, and we were just part of the.

We were just part of the deal.

We were loading firewood.

We were doing all of that stuff. And I think I could have even.

Been taught to contribute more. And in Certain ways I'd like my kids to be contributing even more than I was brought up to. So I'm actually excited about that.

And I love here now. It is so true. Until very recently, we had children for free labor.

All right, so there you have it. That's the do less way.

Here's the question though, from a do less perspective, if a three or four year old is going to help you do something in the kitchen, it takes you three times longer and it's twice the mess.

Yes. I love this question. Okay.

This is such a good.

Yes.

Yes. Okay. But this is the same thing as hiring in your company. Yes. Is it easier for you to do it the first time? Of course it is. Is it annoying to train somebody? Yes. However, if you it is the best time you could possibly invest in the long term because the hours it will free you up with four years to come are essentially infinite if you invest the time upfront.

And that's why I really like to think about spending time versus investing time. Spent time, you don't get it back. Invested time, you get a reward in some way.

Now, with our kids, I understand if.

There are three and four, you do just get a bigger mess. Like when my, you know, when my four year old helps me fold laundry, it's not done the way I like it.

And it's really, I allow it to.

Be my experiment in surrendering, healing my inner control freak, letting go and being present with her.

Because when she's 16, I want her to still be folding laundry.

Right. And for me not to be doing it then. And so I really, really, really recommend.

That a, when we decide we're going.

To have our kids help, that we decide that's like our activity.

Right. So that's our time with our kids. So am I cooking with my kids to have a perfectly clean kitchen and.

For it to be the most efficient meal ever?

No, no. I'm cooking with my kids to have fun and to be with them. So it's. And yes, down the line, then they'll.

Know how to cook like in several years. So that's an investment.

All right, I'm with you there. You also, in your book, you write about this addiction to busyness. Now, this is not a mom thing. This is a human thing. Studies show that something like 40, 50% of millennials and Gen Z people in the population are experiencing regular chronic anxiety. And certainly as a younger person, I like to think I'm still younger. I just have my 26% birthday after all. But I'm going to live to 180. But I know when I was in my 20s, I was always that there's always more I could do for my career. And it was just one thing after another. And if I stopped doing it, I would get anxious and unhappy and all that stuff. And certainly parenthood for moms or dads can change, you know, change your perspective on what matters. But the amount of business goes up. How do you recommend people break the addiction to business?

I love this question. I think it's a lifelong kind of thing. And it really has to do with getting in right relationship with our central nervous system. So you spoke about anxiety and how prevalent it is. I used to be. I used to really struggle with this, with panic attacks. I was on medication. And I tend to be an anxious.

Person, as do many people. And what I've realized is the way we are set up in terms of.

Technology and in terms of expectation to be on, and our culture's celebration of busyness and doing more sets us up to be in our sympathetic nervous system, always fight or flight.

And what that does is, I'm sure you know this, it actually limits our blood flow to our brain and puts our blinders on. So we see fewer possibilities and our.

Creativity diminishes and our ability to be.

Problem solvers diminishes, and we make bad.

Decisions that aren't good for our businesses, aren't good for our families.

And so I have had to dupe.

Myself into practices around being more calm, like meditation, like breath work, like tapping the emotional freedom technique, like chewing slower.

I mean, whatever.

You know what?

Like, there's a whole smorgasbord of things you can do. I have tricked myself into doing those things because I always was such a.

Hyperactive do more person.

And that I had to tell myself, okay, if I calm my central nervous.

System, which I need to do just for thriving. And I know that, but that wasn't enough information for me. That wasn't enough of a reason.

So I had to get into the.

Data of, okay, if I calm my central nervous system and I can be operating from parasympathetic instead of sympathetic, then.

I'll get more blood flow to the.

Appropriate areas in my brain and it'll make me more productive. So I have the great news is on the other side of that now I care far less about how much.

I get done and I'm more calm. And so I really do recommend any amount of meditation.

And so, P.S. my amount of meditation is like five minutes, four times a week. And sometimes it's with A child on my lap.

So I'm not setting the bar particularly high, but that amount has really worked for me.

But.

Or going to dance class.

Going to dance class for me is the way that I get into right relationship with my central nervous system. So I really.

There's no one size fits all, you.

Know, something different is going to work for. For each person. But those are some of the things that I do.

And then just breathing in and out.

Through my nose instead of through my mouth helps me quite a lot.

You said something in there that's kind of dangerous. You said that you care less about getting stuff done. Is that the real secret to doing less? Just give less shits about it?

Yeah, but I'll tell you why.

I'll tell you why.

First of all, like you said about privilege, I am at a moment in my life and in my career where I'm proud of what I've created. And I don't have as much striving energy as I did in my 20s. So I think partially that's an age thing. Okay. However, I'm still super ambitious and I have, like, a dream list a mile long.

But I think that the beautiful byproduct of calming my central nervous system and really like, being able to actually be present is I've begun to cultivate this deep well of joy where I'm going to sound like a huge nerd, but sometimes when I meditate, I get so happy sitting in my closet by myself, because that's where I meditate.

Because then there are two doors between me and my kids, as opposed to one.

They can't find me as easily. I get so happy, and I am just by myself on my closet floor. And it is just this deep well of joy. And it is not caused by anything other than the joy of being in a body in my own company. And that doesn't cost anything. It doesn't require any achievements. And so I think that for me, finding those pockets during the day where I can tap into something that's far.

Beyond anything I could ever achieve, including a clean kitchen. Like, I'm not even talking about resume achievements. I'm talking about, like, the laundry is.

Done and I just care less. And that's so great because I'm happier and I'm more present for my kids. And I honestly don't want my girls to grow up with the same belief system that I did, which is that your worthiness in the world is based on how much you achieve and your grades and your ability to be successful. I really want them to know that.

Their worth is inherent.

And what matters is finding joy. And so I hope that I'm able.

To model that to the best extent I can.

Now, we've all heard that get rid of anything that doesn't bring you joy, from the secret art of tidying things up or the magic art of tidying things up. You know what brings me joy?

What?

Eating chocolate and watching Breaking Bad just over and over and over. And maybe some good sake and sushi between the bouts of chocolate. Is that really the recipe for doing less and all this. I almost feel like it. It's oversimplified because as humans. Oh, I also like to have a lot of sex. That brings me joy.

Yeah.

Like, none of that's productive for the world, for my mission, or for my kids, really. But, I mean, it brings me joy.

Yeah. Well, I think there's balance that out. There's an intersection, right? There's the things that just bring you joy, and then there's a. There are the things that add value to the world.

And so if you were to create.

A Venn diagram, you want to do work ideally, that is the intersection of the two. You know, that little. If it were the Vesica Pisces, which is a beautiful sacred geometry sign. Right. It's that little ellipse in the middle.

So that is where we want to be in our work as much as possible. But PS There are things I don't.

That don't bring me joy that I do in our business.

Like, I don't love, you know, sitting.

Down with my accountant and talking about taxes, but that's just kind of part of the deal.

So the way I recommend dealing with those things, because there are inevitably things. Oh, my gosh, like I. Signing paperwork and talking about legal structures and trademarks, I just.

Oh, my God, it's so hard for me.

However, I do believe that how we do something is sometimes equally as important as what we do. So in my first book, Money A.

Love Story, I talked about adding pleasure.

And fun to your financial practices to.

Get yourself to actually do them.

And so what I had to do.

When I was in financial recovery is.

Bring dark chocolate with me to do.

My bookkeeping or drink kombucha out of.

A wine glass or put on a favorite song. I think that we can infuse the things that aren't so joyful with as.

Much joy as possible so that we just do them. All right.

I like that perspective. And it's also kind of funny because end of the day, that whole joy thing, it's a double edged sword. And when you qualify it, say, doing things that bring you joy, that actually are useful, and then you start kind of inching back towards that busyness thing, but recognizing that useful things that suck your energy, they have to be outsourced for you to do what you're here to do. Probably the guest who's been on the show who's said the most about that and taught me the most about that is Dan Sullivan.

Yes.

And I write in Superhuman about the wisdom of our elders and how I've gone out of my way to cultivate friendships with people over 70 because I'm like, they have 30 years more knowledge than I do and I'd rather learn from them than making the mistakes myself that the average person who's 26% of their life, of their minimum lifespan would make. So Dan talks about that in three buckets. Things that you hate that suck your energy, things that are okay but are necessary and things that you love. And he's like, if you're doing any of that first category, get the heck away. And the more you do that, the weaker you'll be. And so you have that energy in what you're saying. But speaking of energy, the reason I really wanted to interview you, aside from just overall alignment on that doing less thing, it's that you talk about when you have more energy, you can expand time. And in your book you say manage your energy instead of manage your time. And you say when you do that, you end up having enough time for things that really matter for you. And no one talks about this, but the guiding light behind what I do, and this is also part of Superhuman, my most recent book, is that there's a return on investment for everything you do. But everyone thinks investment is dollars or maybe they think it's time. And for me, the ultimate investment is energy. And you seem to understand that intrinsically that if you don't have energy, who cares? You have time and money. You're too tired to spend the time or spend the money.

Yeah. And you don't care about your life.

Right.

You just don't care. So how did you learn that energy was the ultimate currency for everything?

I. That is such a good question.

I.

Really am a very sensitive person. I am a very sensitive person. And people's energy and the energy of things and the energy of rooms and.

The energy of tasks, like everything to me.

I used to be a feng shui consultant in New York City.

Is your amethyst pendant glowing right now?

No, I don't have one.

I'm actually.

I knew you were gonna say you had one and it wasn't glowing.

I'm not even that into crystals. I sound like I would be a crystal person, but like, that's not really my thing. I mean, they're cool, but. And no but. So I'm just like really into the energy of things. And everything does have an energetic quality to it, an energetic imprint. I mean, it's why there are solid pieces of furniture that's just, is. That's just energy and that's just the way the molecules are swirling around and it's all energy. And so, yes, I. I don't know. I always knew. But here's what I. Here's what happened is that I started realizing after having kids that, well, just.

The one, now I have two, that.

My, the quality of my presence with.

Them mattered so much more than what I got done and what I did for them.

And that so much of the, so much of the blueprint of what I.

Had learned about what good mothering was, was about what you did for your kids, not your presence. And I know for me, I just so craved. Both my parents worked a ton and I just so craved like them actually being with them. And I didn't get a lot of that. And I think as the sensitive bunny.

That I've always been, I just was really aware of my own energy and other people. And so, yes, it is so critical that when we manage our energy, we.

Are so much better able to be present.

And when we are better able to be present, we get things done in way less time and we get them done way more effectively so that they have a bigger impact. And that's why he said the way we do things is almost equally as important as what we do. Because I really do believe how we.

Do something is what we get. And that's all your energy.

To your point about being a sensitive person, I was only kidding about the amethyst. I do know from having started and having run 40 years of Zen, the Neurofeedback Brain Training Institute, you know, five days of intensive brain training and having had hundreds of high performing people come through there, there's a brain signature. We can spot someone on the first day with a 24 channel clinical grade EEG setup. Oh, you probably have a sensitive brain who's someone who just picks up on the energies of the world around you more than the average person. So there are known definitive patterns that we've teased out. So it is actually a real provable thing. And some people have. They're more intuitive or they're more creative or, you know, they have a higher eq, it's usually in there. And whether it's a brain structure thing or brain connectivity or what we call the connectome of the brain, I just want to say, you know, we can all make fun of it and say you probably have white robes and you know, do feng shui and you know, dance on one foot after eating mushrooms. All of which may be true, but it's, you're probably doing that because that's part of how you're wired.

Hmm, I love that.

So you're, you're not as crazy as you might have thought you were. And I'm saying that for you or for anyone listening to this going, yeah, it's okay to be a sensitive person. It doesn't mean that you're better or worse than others. It just means that's part of your superpowers. And if you spend all your time trying to look at spreadsheets, it'll probably be toxic for you.

Exactly.

Talk to me about energy leaks. That's something that you talk about as well.

Oh, this is so huge. Okay, so circling back to our very beginning of our conversation, if you're feeling overwhelmed, it is probably because something or someone is sucking your energy that you need to be focused on your own.

Well being or the other things that are actually more important in your life.

And it's usually.

You mean like a baby?

Well, yeah, it could be a baby. That's a little bit different because, you know, they depend on you for their survival and it's just such a short period of time with the sucking.

Oh, God, there you go. Right?

Yeah.

Literally sucking.

No, literally.

I mean, yeah, I feel like I've been nursing for a million years.

But anyway, that's a little bit different.

Although it is kind of the same thing.

No, but basically, you know, I look.

At the areas of our lives of, you know, you've got your health, you've got your finances, you've got your career, you've got your family, your romantic relationship, your community, your spirituality. You know, you can separate it however you want, but those are kind of the key areas for me.

And I really recommend rating them on.

A scale of 1 to 10.

One being like, oh my God, my life is being sucked out of me.

By this area of my life, or 10 being, you know, I'm going to leap over a tall building in a single, in a single step right now.

So then, then you kind of know.

Which area of your life is sucking your life force.

The Most because what we tend to.

Do as personal development oriented folks who I know are the people listening to.

This, we want to fix all the things all at the same time. And what I want to remind you is it's all the same thing. We do so much compartmentalizing of like my marriage is over here and my.

Parenting is over here and my business.

Is over here and my finances are over here. It's all the same thing. It's all this way. I hate the conversation about work, life, balance. I like work. My work is part of my life. It's all life.

It's all life.

We're not trying to balance things. We're just, I am all about integration. And so when you begin to understand that like a, a conversation, a difficult conversation that you need to have with your mother is affecting the way you show up with your daughter is affecting your annual revenue and that dealing with the biggest energy leak first is going to all of a sudden free up all this energy for you to apply it and invest it in the other areas of your life that are going.

To give you a better ROI.

Even though you think like, oh, a.

10 minute conversation with my mom does.

It couldn't possibly make a difference in my business it will.

It's all the same thing.

Okay, that makes, that makes so much sense. And in terms of plugging those energy leaks, what's the best way?

Well, you have to identify what they are first so that, that, I mean.

Many people listening will automatically have. You'll, like you already know if you thought of a relationship or something going.

On in your life. Maybe it's your relationship with alcohol, maybe.

It'S your relationship with your mother, maybe it's Instagram, I don't know. But you know, and the thing that came into your head is it, I guarantee you, whatever popped into your head is it. And then the plugging of the leak. Well, maybe if it's a substance or kind of like a scroll addiction that.

You'Re in or you know, it's a.

It'S a self, self defeating behavior, then.

You know, I really do recommend looking at. Right. With the work of Charles Duhigg.

What's the cue?

Then what's the routine then what's the. Or what's the middle thing? And then what's the reward? Like what's the cue? Then what's the action? What's the reward? And changing that up so that the cue, you actually just do something else as the middle thing that feels rewarding. So if you're finding you're on your Phone scrolling too much, then that. Then the cue might be, oh, I'm bored at my desk, or I'm stuck on what to write on this thing, I'll just pick up my phone. So instead of doing that, maybe it's that you go do 10 bounces on your rebounder, for example. So new. So cue new action. And then the reward is you feel great after. After 10 bounces.

And so that's one thing. But you might, you know, every energy leak is going to need a different plug. No plug is going to fit all situations. A lot of the time, though, it's a relationship where you need to have.

A difficult conversation or.

Or limit the amount of time you.

Spend with that person or try to stop fixing them or changing them. That's a big one for especially a lot of women. Like, we really want everyone to be happy.

And if there's somebody we love who's close to us, who's not thriving or.

Not happy, we take it on as we think that's our responsibility.

But we really have to hand people.

Their emotions back and say, that's actually not my job to take care of your feelings. I mean, we can be kind, but also give them back the management of their emotions.

So as an entrepreneur, that's doubly important with people on your staff.

Oh, my goodness, yes. So this is really key. What I recommend is having clarity about how communication works in your company and what is and is not acceptable and what.

How it goes down in terms of communication.

So I heard about a book, and I'm going to say the name of.

This book, and I also have to say I have yet to read it.

But it's next on my radar called Radical Candor, about a way of having.

Communication where everyone just agrees that if something's up, we address it right then.

Because that prevents the need for all these side things and all these marinating and all the whatever. And I just. It's so refreshing when something happens and.

Then we deal with it and then.

It happens and then we deal with it, as opposed to what a lot of people do is something happens and then we sit on it and that will cut down a lot on. I mean, I don't want to spend.

My hours working dealing with people's emotional issues.

I want them to be grownups and do their work.

So we're just more clear about that in our company.

The other guy who just wrote a really good book about that is. It's the Orange and Blue Book, Charlie Someone or another. Ah, man, how can I not think of the name of this book, it's a really powerful one. Everyone who's listening has read this book. The guy talks about he's the largest hedge fund manager out there, and I'm completely blanking on his name. But he talks about believability and this idea of radical candor, like, if there's a problem, anyone's empowered to do it. And so you get the junior analysts who will talk to the billionaire hedge fund manager and be like, you did a crappy job of prepping for this meeting. You showed up late. And like, anyone at any time. And it feels like it could almost be a bit toxic if you go too far. But at the same time, like, hey, that didn't work. I need you to fix it is probably a good thing to say, even though need is a weasel word, so.

Well, that's true. And also, like, these things can be done so kindly.

It doesn't have to be like, you suck. It can be like, hey, I noticed this thing, like, maybe next time do this.

And then if it's part of the.

Culture and just part of what happens.

I mean, I, I grew up in.

A family where we didn't talk about stuff.

And so being with my husband, he's pro.

He's the most direct person I've ever met.

And so it's given me so much practice in like, something is off and I address it immediately and. Because I know I could do that with him because he does it all the time now.

I do that in my other relationships too.

And it just keeps everything really fresh and current and everyone knows where they stand. So we're not draining our energy with all the things underneath the surface that aren't being said.

That is a huge energy suck.

Okay, I'm with you there. Let's go to the next part in your book that was really interesting for me. And that was time bending. And you talk about how you can actually bend time. What do you mean when you say that?

So Einstein's theory of relativity says that.

Essentially time is completely relative to the object, essentially observing time.

But we all know this. There's two types of time.

There's. There's Kronos and Kairos. This is from ancient Greek.

Kairos is suspended timeless time. And Kronos is linear time.

That told us, you know, we were going to show up at this recording at a certain time. They're both super valuable.

But I think most of us are.

Operating in Kronos linear time. And it's a very lack association with time.

Limited.

Limited.

Whereas Kairos is So the way I describe it is the difference between the five minutes you waited for your coffee.

This morning in line and the five minutes that you held your child for the first time in your arms.

The five minutes you held your child.

For the first time in your arms.

You were not aware of time. Time stood still. It could have been five minutes, it.

Could have been five hours, it could.

Have been five seconds.

You don't know, you don't care.

Because the difference is inhabiting the time, is fully inhabiting the time. And when we do that now, we.

Can'T do it all the time, obviously.

But when we find more moments in our days to fully inhabit the time, we actually end up having more of it. I mean, because when your perception of time changes, you feel as though you have more of it. And from a Kairos perspective, and from the theory of relativity perspective, because the observer of the time has shifted, you actually do have more of it. Because at the end of the day, all we have is our perception. That's the only thing, really that's real for us.

Even though nobody's perception is real. I mean, that was like a whole other thing.

You're definitely energetically sensitive. Totally kidding. The idea that time is relative. So we all know that if something is boring and one of the things that sucks your energy, it feels like it takes forever, even if it doesn't. And something that's really, really fun, you're like, wow, I was just there for four hours and it feels like it just started. So you can work on that. But you actually have a mantra in the book that I've not heard anyone other than, you know, God in those conversations I have with him, say, I am the source of time. But that's one of your mantras.

Well, I got that from gay Hendrix in his book the Big Leap.

Oh, is that from gay Hendrix? Okay, so gay Hendrix isn't God. There we go.

I cannot.

Well, you know, we don't know, but.

I think we're all God.

But that's a different conversation.

That is. Yeah.

So I am.

The source of time is such a wonderful one. Actually, this morning I have a perfect.

Time time bending story.

So I had a 6:50am flight. I left my house too late because.

I was dealing with a toiletry issue.

And whether or not I needed to.

Bring conditioner, it was a whole thing.

And so I ended up leaving my house 10 minutes later than I would have liked.

And Now I live 20 minutes from the airport. And I like to get to the airport an hour early, even though it's a very small airport and I don't need to, but I just like the extra time because part of my way of calming my central nervous system is not needing to rush.

So I da, da, da.

I get on the highway, I'm going, and I realize, wait.

I went out on a date with my husband on Saturday night and I put my ID and credit card in an evening bag that I did not.

Replace back in in my regular daytime wallet.

And I had to go get off the exit, go all the way home. Da, da da. But on that ride, I just decided, I was like, well, this is an opportunity to time bend. I can either be in stress and anxiety, which I know will make me take longer to get there, or I can be in this moment of watching the sunrise, driving my car in the quiet of a main morning with no children, and I can enjoy it. And so I just decided, I'm looping back, I'm getting my id, I'm going. I found the perfect parking spot right across from the sliding doors where I waltzed into security. Nobody was there. I didn't have to take off my shoes, do the whole thing. I go, they are about to close the gate. I didn't even have to run. I just waved to them down the thing and they were like, oh, yep, there she is. I walk onto the plane. Literally from the moment I got to the airport, it was 10 minutes and.

I was in the airplane and basically we were taking off.

And it was the perfect time bending because I decided to inhabit the moment instead of trying to pop myself somewhere else.

And essentially that's the key to time bending.

Are you telling me you didn't drive in the high occupancy lane just a little bit?

Well, Maine is too small.

We don't have one of those.

All right, fine.

And also, I will say it was. It was, it was freezing rain this morning.

And I did.

I knew.

I also drive a Prius. It's like not great in this in the snow and ice.

So I. Priuses aren't great when there's no snow in Iceland in terms of driving or stopping.

But yeah, not a high performance car.

But I only pay $25 a month.

In gas and I'm very enthusiastic about that.

I get you on that front. Right. Okay.

So I had speed because it would have been dangerous.

You weren't running in and off the road with your Hummer. I gotcha.

Nope.

And it's totally true. And one piece of advice that I would offer for anyone listening, if you have that sort of travel Anxiety. Go to the airport late a few times on purpose just to feel the anxiety, and then miss a flight and realize, oh, my God, there's always another one. All of your stress about travel will go down because you're like, you want me to get there?

That is.

Oh, my God, it's such a good point. Now also, yeah, I was in a.

Blessed situation where I didn't have to be in New York City until 4, and I knew there were like, eight more flights. So I just was in a relaxed state because I knew it was going to work out.

But the truth is, it always works out. Yeah, it always works out.

That said, if you're. If you have to make it to New York because you're going on Dr. Oz the next morning, which is a story in one of my books that I talk about, and I get to the airport and they're like, sorry, you can't get through the ticket line for a variety of airport security BS things. That's when you're like, okay. And then you put on your hat, which is you don't believe in the can't. So in that case, I just bought a ticket for another flight so I could get past security and show up at the gate for my flight. And they're like, how'd you possibly get through security? Like, I bought two tickets. Guys let me on. And they did.

Well done.

Sometimes you got to be creative, but the deal is freaking out and all that. It actually makes time not work. But if you're calm, that it feels like time is bending, and sometimes things just work out more easily, even though we don't really have math or an explanation for it.

Exactly.

Something else in your book that I appreciate that you talk about is your experiment number six, ask for help. Tell me about that experiment.

So this one is huge for those.

Who struggle with asking for help, which is most of us. My message is this.

When you have decided that your worthiness as a human being is based on.

Your ability to get more done by yourself, then you will struggle forever with this.

But if you can reorganize yourself so that your worth feels inherent and you're.

No longer trying to prove something by all the things you can do by yourself, and you know your worth is inherent, like your strength of self is.

That strong, then asking for help becomes so much easier because it no longer.

Is a hit against your value as a human.

And a lot of us struggle with this because we think it's a sign of weakness. But my invitation to you is a.

New belief, which is that Asking for help or needing help is not a sign of weakness. It's a sign of being human. None of us were meant to do all the things by ourselves.

And you're not, like, getting into a special room in heaven because you did more alone. That's just a recipe for being tired and lonely. Like, literally, you're not getting anything from that. So I wrote a lot about asking for help because I think so many people struggle with it.

So many of my dear friends struggle with it. I actually wrote that chapter. It was the longest chapter. It's been edited, but the first version of it was 25,000 words, which was a full third of my word count guarantee with my publisher. And I wrote it for. With this one dear friend of mine in mind because she had struggled so much with it. And I just wrote it as a love letter to her to please, like, let go and let the support in. And it's been really beautiful to witness her dismantle the armor she was wearing around her worthiness and her independence and how much that was her identity. And as that's been shifting, she's so.

Much happier because she's able to let in the support.

And what we really need as humans is more connection, not more independence. And when we ask for help, we're much more able to then give help when it's needed, because we're not running on empty.

I actually grew up learning that if you ask someone for help, then you would owe them later, so you should never ask for help. This is actually a really common thing that people get taught when they're kids from whatever their parents go through or a teacher or something like that. And it wasn't until much later in life that I realized people actually like to help. Having an opportunity to help another makes someone else feel good. So when you ask someone for help, yes, they're doing you a favor. But by being there and asking for help and giving them the opportunity to help you, you're also, in some strange way, helping them because they got to pitch in. And when you pitch in and you know you did something, at least you pitch on something that matters. There's a unique sense of satisfaction that comes from that. So I learned the hard way that, you know, it's okay to ask for help, and that when you do, usually the people are grateful that they got to help out as long as, you know, you didn't ask them to, you know, take your garbage out because you didn't want to. That's not what we're talking about here. But even then, Right after you have a baby, there's lots of people who will take your garbage out for you because they know that it matters because you're recovering. Even that can be an act of service that people are happy to do. It's not an imposition, it's an opportunity.

No, it is one of those things that it is such a joy to help the people we love. It fills something in us that no amount of money or achievement would ever fill. I mean, at the end of the day, aren't we all just here, here to be of service? And when we reject help that's offered.

It also feels kind of awful as the person who's offering it, at least in my experience.

Yep, I'm with you there. Okay, let's talk about sleep. I've written some of the original articles on hacking sleep that have been echoing around the Internet for a long time. And it's been probably 12 years now that I've tracked my sleep almost every single night and gone from being an absolute. I'll sleep when I'm dead. I don't like sleep. How do I possibly minimize it to? It's one of the most important things I do. I still only need 6 hours and 10 minutes of it, but I'm sleeping more than the average 20 year old gets in eight hours. And getting in six hours. I'm okay with it. But you talk about something I haven't written about. In your book, you talk about Yoga Nidra.

What is it? Oh, Yoga Nidra I discovered because of my postpartum insomnia.

It is a, it's a, it's a.

Deep meditation that gets your brain into.

A state of deep relaxation where you're not asleep, but you're also not really conscious. And they say, the people who have studied it, that 20 minutes of yoga Nidra actually gets you the same restorative.

Benefits of three hours of sleep.

And for people who are having sleep, sleep disruption, insomnia, or, you know, waking.

Up a million times a night or.

Whatever it is, they are able to get themselves able to sleep normally by doing Yoga Nidra.

So it's a guided meditation where you lie down and it's 15 or 20 minutes and you know, somebody walks you through it either in person or on an audio. And it is a very profound experience of restoration and relaxation in an incredibly efficient way. Like for me, it's 10 million times more effective than taking a nap.

So you use a guided meditation and there's a bunch of them online that you can get to.

Yeah, you just have to find somebody's voice that you like. That's the trickiest part. Got it.

Pretty soon we'll have some sort of like Siri plugin where you can change someone's voice so they sound like your favorite whatever you are.

Yeah, that's a good idea.

We're almost there. But in the meantime. Yep. You gotta find someone whose voice you like. But if you Yoga N I D R A so it's been a while since I played around with that and I don't think I've ever used it for sleep. But I'm a big fan of yoga, so I like it that you just put that in your book and saying, all right, sleep is part of this doing less things thing. And getting to sleep more quickly or more deeply is a way to do less because you actually freed up a bunch of time so you could do less, which is cool.

Yeah.

Kate, your book is a wealth of knowledge. I don't think it's just for moms in business, it's for anyone who wants to focus on doing less. But I think your perspective as a mom of relatively young kids and an entrepreneur serves as a care crucible for the high demand times of life, which is what makes you able to write the book. So thank you for creating it and sharing it. Your website where people can find more about your book and more about you is katenorthrup.com K A T E N O R-T-H-R-U P.com Kate, thanks for being on Bulletproof Radio.

Thank you so much for having me.

If you liked today's episode, you you know what to do. Leave a book review for someone. Because that's one of the easiest things you can do to help out. And you hear me right now, I'm asking for your help. Leave a review if you like Kate's book, leave a review. You like my new book, Superhuman? Leave a review. That kind of a thing. Reviews help the author and help everyone else find which books are worth reading or which podcasts are worth listening to you. So thank you for listening today. Thank you for your time. I hope the return on investment interest of energy you got for the last hour was worth it for you. And if it was, I'll see you on the next show.

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