Don’t Hold Back! Jump, Leap, Fly or Fall Full Out – Lisa Nichols with Dave Asprey : 746

Bulletproof Radio, a state of high performance.

You're listening to Bulletproof Radio with Dave Asprey. I'm really excited about our guest today. If you're listening to this episode before October 10th of 2020, you're getting a conversation that's going to lead up to the biohacking conference. And if you're listening to it after October 10th, either you were at the biohacking conference virtually, which was epic and amazing, or you weren't and you feel like you've missed out and you're probably not even a very good person because you weren't there. I would understand that feeling. In fact, I would have it myself. So you better save yourself from all that pain just by going to the virtual biohacking conference@Biohackingconference.com. you guys knew I was going to say that, didn't you? Now, enough about the conference. You knew I was going to plug it because while it's cool, what I'm really excited about is Lisa Nichols, our guest today. Because back in the day, several years ago, I think it was at Vishen's event, wasn't it, when we first met? Yes, as a Vishen Lakhiani's event. He has these events around the world that are really cool. Vishen's been on the show, I've been in his book, he's been in my book, and he's a good friend. I sat down and I had dinner and I was kind of stunned by this story that Lisa told me. And we got to know each other then. And it helps to explain why she's one of the world's most requested motivational speakers, a big media personality, and she's founder and CEO of a company called Motivating the Masses, which reaches, get this, 80 million people. And it makes bulletproof radio look like just a tiny drop in tiny drop in the bucket. Because my bragging rights, Lisa, are like, we've had 200 million downloads. And you're like, yeah, I got 80 million people. See, there's no seeing downloads and people here. So I bow download to your reaching the masses abilities and accomplishments.

We're dancing together, brother. Dancing together.

Of course we are. Now, the thing that just still blows me away that you shared over dinner when we first met is that you were a struggling mom on public assistance and you did something and became a million dollar millionaire entrepreneur. What did you do?

Well, it wasn't overnight, so let me be clear that it wasn't overnight. I began to implement a number of things. Number one, I realized that wherever my Mental mindset was my bank account. My lifestyle was going to follow. So the first thing I did was I began to feed myself something new, Feed myself a new conversation, feed myself a new possibility. And then I began to as a technical skill set, I began to share my speaking ability. I knew I had a gift. You know, sometimes, you know, you have that something, yeah, but you just don't know what to do with it, how to wrap your arms around it. I think one of the biggest pains, Dave, that I used to experience was people saying, oh my God, you're one of the most amazing speakers I've ever heard. But I had no idea what to do with that. And I'd go, and that means what?

Right?

Can you show me how to monetize this gift that you say I have? And so I learned how to monetize it. I learned how to wrap skill set around gift. Because sometimes gift alone isn't enough. You have to wrap the skill set. And the skill set that I learned that I wrapped around it was a skill set of a CEO. How do I do that? So I had to learn how to become at peace with money. My historical background with money was that there was never enough of it. We ran out of money before we ran out of month. Money was divisive. It was the bone of contention in my home. It was the lack. We always rob Peter to pay Paul. I never thought Peter and Paul could both be paid. And so I had to change my relationship to money and my relationship to me and money. And then I had to change my relationship to me and a lot of money. And so there was this process I delved into. I delved into understanding about finances, money, numbers, sales, so that I can be comfortable with that. And then I got on the treadmill and I'm a grinder. Will Smith says it best in an interview that he did years ago. He said, I might not be the smartest one, I might not be the cutest one, but I will always be the hardest working one. He said, if I'm on the treadmill next to the next guy, one or two things are going to happen. Either he's going to get off. I'm a die on the treadmill. And I was willing to stay on the treadmill for 10,000 hours. I was willing to go learn what I didn't know, say what I've never said, and do what I've never done before so that I can become the woman I've always known myself to be. I wanted to meet her. I wanted to meet this image of me that I had in my mind, and that's what I did for the next 15, 20 years or so.

Have you actually met the woman you want to be?

I have.

You have? All right.

I have. She's always growing, so she hasn't arrived anywhere.

Ah, that's beautiful.

Yeah. She hasn't arrived anywhere, but I see glimpses of her. I see glimpses of women that I looked up to. I see it in myself now. I picked up enough nuggets to go, oh, I know how to be that woman. But I'm always ready for the next version of me. So I'm not settled. I haven't arrived. I'm on a journey. But I've touched parts of me that I aspired to become 20 years ago, you know, and now, you know, and so I'm. I'm. I'm grateful, and I'm still on the journey. I'm very much still on the journey.

How do you keep yourself from sort of resting on your laurels? You're like, yeah, I've kind of done this. I've been on Oprah. I've been on Steve Harvey. You know, I've done all these cool things. You know, maybe I should just, like, chill and go play golf or whatever it is you do for fun. But you don't seem like that. Your nose is to the grindstone still. Yeah. What's motivating that?

Well, one, because being on Oprah or Dr. Phil or Steve Harvey was never the landing point. It was never the measure that I had made it anywhere.

What was the measure?

It's gonna sound crazy or corny, but it really is to hear job well done, my child.

Wow.

It really is to hear job well done, my child. And so there's always more work to do. There's always more people to serve. And so I believe that Oprah and Larry King and Steve Harvey or whatever other accolades that may reside in a bio or something, those are just indicators of some results that I produce in the world, but it's not an indicator that I've done my job.

I love the way you put that. And it's easy for stuff like that to go to your head. And I remember sort of being in awe. I was on Steve Harvey one time, and I was kind of going in there going, I know Steve's a really big deal, but I don't watch tv, so I had no idea what to expect going in there. And I walk in, he goes, dave. And I'm like, yeah. And he goes, oh, my God. I just told my people I wanted them to call you because I wanted to ask you about your diet stuff. And here you are showing up on my show. Oh, my goodness. Because he hadn't, like, known who was recording all that, and it was this weird serendipity thing. And I found he was such a. Like a kind and curious and empathetic and just not what you expect when you see the social media presence and you see, you know, all the cool stuff he's doing. So for you, it didn't go to your head, but why didn't it? I mean, you're saying you grew up in this household where there was not enough and where most people, like, oh, my God, you've made it. You've been on Dr. Oz or Dr. Phil or any of these things. Like, how did you know that that wasn't the end point?

Well, it was never a part. I've never once in my life said, I want to make the red carpet. Like, it was never a marker.

It wasn't about fame for you?

No, it's never been. If there is any fame in my life, it's a B of me doing the right thing and what I'm supposed to be doing. It's a byproduct.

Thank you for saying that. Everybody listening to the show right now listen to that and take that to heart. What is the cost of fame?

Oh, how long is this show so number one, I still get uncomfortable when people say fame and me just so funny you just said that to me, and I was like, so. I still get used to that because it was a byproduct. For me, the cost is high, and I think it's always going to be high because anything worth having is going to cost you something. And there are ways you can make it not be so high that it becomes a Pyrrhic victory. I've always been fascinated with the concept of a Pyrrhic victory named after General Pirius, a general who won two wars. And at the end of winning the second war, he turned and said, I can't afford to win another again. And when someone said, how can. Why don't you want to win another war again? He said, because the cost of winning these wars have cost me my best friends and my best generals. And then the Pyrrhic victory was. Was. Was birthed. The phrase is when the cost of the victory outweighs the victory itself. So the cost of fame or success or whatever it is that. That you're pursuing to me is often high. But that's because your conviction and your Convenience won't live on the same block. And whenever you're pursuing something you really want, at some point it's going to test your conviction. And the test of your conviction is going to be because it cost you something. And those who really don't want it that much, they'll opt out because the cost is too high. Those who say no, no matter what, they'll pay the price, which is why they're living in their conviction at some point. The key is not to pay such a high price to get to fame that fame doesn't even give you what you want because the price was so high. And that's what you see with all the celebrities who commit suicide or they become alcoholics or they need therapy. The cost was so high that now you're living in a pyrrhic victory. And I just gotta say, in all transparency, had I not changed some things about 10 years into building motivate the masses, I would be experiencing a pyrrhic victory right now because I was definitely on the pat. I didn't realize the price I was about to pay in my relationships. And my health was going to be higher and bigger than any success I could ever achieve.

Wow, such wisdom. I've never talked about this. I had to actually do some work with a therapist just to do that. Cause when fame comes on like that, I frankly don't give any credence. I don't care about being well known, but I care about my message reaching a lot of people. So the cost was fame, but when it comes on, man, it pushes buttons. And so I was like, I don't know that I like this so much.

Right, right. You have to stay steady in who you knew yourself to be before you got famous. If I can just add this just cause you just said that Jennifer Hudson invited me to her pre Grammy party tons of years ago when she was in Dreamgirls and she had just come out. I think it was Dream Girls. I can't remember. I think it was Dream Girls, I'm not sure. And I didn't know Jennifer Hudson. Like I don't know, what am I doing being invited to her party? Well, apparently she saw the Secret and she wanted me there. So I go to this Hollywood party, my first ever Hollywood, pre Grammy or pre Oscar, I don't know which one it was. Maybe it was the Oscars, I don't know. And I'm not a Hollywood girl. I was raised in la. I saw all the downsides of Hollywood. So I go to this party, I feel like a Fish out of water. Everyone is recognizing me because the secret had just come out. It had just been on Oprah. I don't know anyone, I feel like. And I'm awkward at parties by myself. You have to know. I am like, awkward bird.

We can hang together.

Oh, yes. And you would be my binky. Like, I would hold on tight, right? And so I'm just there and everyone, all these actors and actresses are coming over to me, but everyone's just telling me their problems. Like, I feel like I'm like the party therapist, right? And so Jennifer Hudson comes in fashionably late, and she notices me and she's like, oh, my God. And she seats me right next to her at the dinner table, moves whoever was sitting next to her and she leans into me and she goes, so of anyone, you could tell me what should I be doing right now? And it was right before her career exploded. And I said to her, what I just said just now. I said, who were you in Chicago right before all of this occurred? What did you believe in? What was important to you? What was non negotiable? And she started saying that. I said, well, hold on to that because it'll all be tested and you. And you can select to remember or you can choose to forget. And so that's. I had to go through some coaching and counseling when the secret happened because it felt like it was overnight, though. It wasn't, but it did.

I love it that you're so open about that because it's something that many people aspire to. Many people listening, someday I'm gonna make it. I'm gonna have all these followers or I'm gonna be famous. But it's that same old, you know, when I have a BMW, I'll be happy.

Right? And so you have a BMW.

If you do achieve fame, you'll be happier. You won't be happy, but it won't be because you achieve fame.

Right, right, right, right, Absolutely.

When did you identify happiness along your path and say, oh, you know, I'm happy most of the time.

I. So first, let me just talk about my conscious path. I got on my conscious path of self discovery because I wasn't happy, right? So I didn't. I wasn't happy pursuing more happy.

Okay, so I'm unhappy. Any happy is good.

I'm hurting, pursuing relief.

Got it.

And so I often share with people inside when I'm being interviewed. Please don't mistake me for someone who decided, I want to do transformation, to transform the world. No, that wasn't me. I wanted to discover transformation, to transform my chaos. So I entered into this world to rescue Lisa. And when I rescued Lisa, I thought, how cool is this if it worked on a hard head, stubborn woman? Like, because I'm stubborn. Ooh. If it can work on me, it might work on other people. So I wanted to share the good news Day. I wanted to share the good news because you couldn't have told me that I was going to discover this kind of happy again. I didn't believe it because I was so in my darkness. I was engaged to be married, and my fiance, my then fiance, turned abusive and became verbally abusive, emotionally abusive, and ultimately physically abusive. And by the time I was able to get him out of my home and out of my life, I was in a pretty dark place. And my mom noticed it, and she took me to the doctor, reluctantly. And the doctor said, I'll never forget those words. She says, Ms. Nichols, you are clinically depressed. And it was like Charlie Brown's parents were speaking, wa, wa, wa, wa, wa.

Because you can't hear it, right?

Cause I can't hear it. And then she. She. She commences to write a prescription and hand it to me. And I read the words, and I see Prozac and Lisa Nichols on the same sheet.

Wow.

And that was my wake up moment. That. And I. And I kept staring at it, and I kept saying, prozac. Prozac. That looks. That sounds familiar. But I just could not see Prozac in my name. She says, yeah, that's because you're depressed. I said, do you mean I'm sad? She said, I mean, you're really, really, really sad, Lisa. And that was my journey. I said, okay, I know I can recognize the word sad. And I know the formula, the solution to not be sad anymore. My theory was I lost myself. I lost myself in being his fiance, Jelani's mom, and then the victim of his abuse. I couldn't find Lisa anymore. So I spent the next several months rediscovering Lisa, getting face to face with Lisa in the mirror, reaffirming who I am, whose I am. And in that journey, I turned my crawl back into a walk. I turned my walk into a run. And eventually, eventually I turned my run into a sore. And when I did that, it felt so good. I wanted to pick other people who were crawling up. I wanted to pick other people who were walking up. I want to jog beside other people who are jogging, and I want to see if I can help as many people as possible soar. And so I just Started like literally, the wounded healer. It was the wound. I fell into it.

Wow. It still takes so much courage to look in the mirror when you're that far down. I mean, a lot of courage. Some people might even call it balls. Okay. You know, so many people don't. Right. And they stay stuck there. Do you think you're somehow special or was there a spark? You know, you saw that prescription pad. But a lot of people would have said, I'm just going to take the Prozac and I'm just going to sort of stick in the victim thing and stay. But somehow something happened there. And I've seen you share whatever that is with other people. And I want to know, how do you transfer that courage to say, I'm going to look up instead of look forward? How do you move that into another person's mind?

That's a great question. I didn't. I've always said I want to protect my future memories of myself.

Oh, wow. Okay.

Yeah. And I say that to as many people as possible. Your job is to protect your future memories. So the choices you're about to make are going to be your memories one day. Right. And so I wanted to protect the future memories of myself by playing full out. Because whatever story I write is the story I have to read for the rest of my life. And I don't mind writing a story, Dave, that said, I fell down. I don't mind. See, the difference between me and most people is that a lot of people are afraid to fall down. I'm totally fine with falling down a thousand times because I know in my story I'll get up. I might not spring up, I might stagger up, I might wobble up, but I'm not questioning if I'll get up. And so I knew that. I've known that my grandmother, my mother, my father said, you have the ability to get up, baby. That was the best gift they ever gave me, is I said, you may not be able to avoid being knocked down. And we don't want you to get knocked down, but you might get knocked down. Life happens. But what you have to know is that you're made up of get up muscles. And so when I saw the Prozac, I went, oh, I'm knocked down. And I gave myself permission to get up in whatever time I needed to get up in, but I didn't give myself permission to stay parked and laying down. That's what you don't get to do. And so how I transfer that when I'm giving that to someone Else is. I believe that in your darkest hours, you've forgotten who you are and whose you are. You've forgotten your birthright. You've forgotten the right to bounce back, the right to love again, the right to forgive and be forgiven, the right to love the unlovable. We just lose sight of that. Because whatever the situation is, it seems bigger than what our rights are, because you can't see the right. You can't touch the right. But that's where you need a champion beside you to remind you. And then the other thing that I would always do is I would borrow someone else's lenses of me. So if someone saw a greater version of me than I was seeing of myself, I would borrow their lenses every day, all day. And. And. And people got used to me doing that. Like, they would go, you. You. You want to borrow my lenses, son? Like, I just created. I created these processes, Dave, just to keep me going. And I remember once I was on stage, Jelani was 10 years old, and I was. I was away for 11 days, and I'd never been away for 11 days straight at that time. And I'm on stage and in front of about 800 people in D.C. and this woman at the end yells out, you're such a great mom. And I felt like a total fraud because I had been away from Jelani for 11 days. I walked off stage, and the smartest thing I could do for myself, as I was in this dark place in my head about being a horrible mom, the smartest thing I can do, I got off stage, and I called a girlfriend of mine who knows me as a mother, and I said, please tell me the type of mother you see me to be. Share with me your lenses. And she not only told me what kind of mom I was, she gave me detailed examples of why I was that kind of mom, why I was a great mom. And so I constantly did that to be able to look myself in the mirror, is that I also borrowed other people's lenses.

Wow, that's a really powerful technique. And it even seems related to things like what Napoleon Hill would do and think and grow rich. And the original personal development guy in the west, going back long before you and I were born, he talks about making these sort of virtual masterminds and sort of having different lenses of yourself and taking on other people's perspectives inside your mind. Is that how you do it? I mean, are you, like, taking deep breaths and sitting there and literally saying, if I put myself behind their eyes and I looked at myself, they would see this, or is it some other metaphysical process? I can't imagine.

Well, mine is simplified. I actually ask and I take notes.

Oh, mind blowing, right?

I'm a real simple girl. Promise you, anything I invite anyone to do listening to my voice, it will not be rocket science. You should be able to do it. But I always do that because I don't want anyone to let themselves off the hook because confusion is a strategy. And so I'm always simplifying things to its most simple form so that you cannot use confusion as your strategy to stay inactive. So I have a notebook now. I have probably about five over the years. And when people I ask this simple question, please tell me how you see me or tell me what you see for me. And I take copious notes and I say who it's from, and I write the date and I close the book. And I'll sit sometimes and I'll grab a book when I'm on the plane and I'm lonely because I'm on the plane next to seat 2B. They don't know me. I don't know them. No one's talking. It's dark. It's an overnight flight. And I go through the book and I go, wow. Because sometimes I'll read something that someone's seeing me. And I go, what? How did you see that? But then I put myself in a space of cognitive dissonance. Stretch yourself, Lisa, to be that person. Now, somehow it's a dichotomy because they already saw that person in me, but I didn't. But then I go, what does it mean to show myself that in me? And so I use and I only allow conscious, forward moving people to speak life into me. And for me to write that down, I don't want anyone to let me off the hook. Don't let me off the hook. But I don't want you also to be afraid of my giant. I want you to call me to a greater version of myself. A greater version of service, a greater version of love, a greater version of forgiveness. Not just a greater version of money and success and monetary things. That's just one small indicator of who I'm being in the world. But call me to all those levels of servant leadership, and that's what I see myself as. I'm a servant leader who sit in the role of a CEO or a transformational coach. But I'm a servant leader above all. That's who I am.

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You mentioned something a little while ago. You said you decided to learn how to be a CEO and I I'm thinking back a long time ago. I had an uncle who had started a tech company before it was cool to start tech companies and made stupid amounts of money. And I went fishing with him in Alaska, and I must have been like, geez, pretty young. So I remember the photos of the time I was still really fat. And I asked him, like, just getting going in my career, like, you know, what should I do? And he goes, well, there's a real good shortage of CEOs out there, people who can actually do that job. You should learn how to be a CEO. And the thought, it kind of stunned me because I'm like, the most I could ever be is a cio, and I'm this kind of fat geek and I want to hack your computer. And that actually sat with me all this time. He's passed away years ago. But I look at that and I realize the wisdom in that, because to be a CEO, you kind of have to own your crap, right? Because there's no one above you and everyone's looking at you all the time. But it's also kind of stressful and you feel like you sound like you've learned to cope with having both the eyes of many people on you, but also having your own team rely on you.

Yeah.

And also as a mom, you know, you have your family relying on you. So all these people relying on you, who are you relying on?

So I appreciate that. Question number one, relying on me doesn't take away my permission to ask for help either. Beautiful. So I don't allow my role or my success or my title to take away my permission to ask for help, to get a mirror, relate, have a mirror relationship. Like, what do you see? Let me tell you what I see for you. What do you see for me? You know, what are three things I do well? What's two areas I can improve upon? I get to ask the question and I get to answer the question as well. So one of the things I think as a CEO that I like to believe I've done well is to allow. Allow the humanity of me as a person to stay intact while I serve as a CEO. You know, it's a role, and I'm honored to be in the role. But I also have my own needs. The other thing that I. I take my CEO hat off. It is not welded to my head, contrary to what I believed for years. I take my CEO hat off these days. I do a lot more of it because I'm living in the Bahamas and it speaks to. The environment is so different. I've only lived here for eight months, and it's so different that it keeps inviting me to what do you want different in your life, Lisa? So I keep leaning into that. I when I'm with my team and we have a guideline, put out any, throw any problem into the pot, into the hat that you want. Throw any problem out there, but chase it with the solution that you recommend. And so I believe in empowering everyone on my team to lead their division. You're the CEO. You're the CEO. You're the CEO of your division. And so everyone has immense ownership and couple that with working at home and a bunch of self sacrifice and team members. I have to make them stop on the weekend practically. But for a long time I knew I wasn't a good CEO. But I only wasn't a good CEO because I didn't know what being a CEO was. I was a speaker. I was a speaker. I was talent, I could dazzle. But I wasn't managing the numbers or the operations or the marketing or the scaling or the systems. And I didn't know anything. It was foreign. That was foreign to me. And I was so intimidated. And so I kept hiring people that sounded smarter than me that I and I kept putting them in positions like handle that, handle that over there. And I realized that they could never own my vision. And so I just began about 10 years ago. It's recent too. I've been in business now for 22 years. Just probably about 10 years ago, I just went, okay, so I can't avoid this whole running the company thing. And I just kept saying, I want to be a speaker. I want to be a speaker. Well, you've been a speaker. You've been speaking everywhere. Now be a CEO. And when I stepped into being a CEO, I got to tell you, I think I enjoy it more. And I love speaking, I love training, I love teaching other people how to master their speaking techniques. But I love watching and building an enterprise that can touch more and serve more. And I used to think that if I didn't touch someone directly, I really didn't give them value. And really that was a selfish concept. That was just me wanting to see who I touched. And so now, yeah, once I got that, like Lisa, that's selfish. That's about you. That's you feeding your ego or your shego. And when I realized that, I realized that if someone's touched by my work and they never meet me and I never see them, but their life has changed in some sense small, microscopic way because they cross my path via video or someone, then I've done my job. And it's not up to me to keep score on how many people I touched. It's not up to me to track those numbers. That's, that's not the case. That's not what, what's valuable. When I got that, then I moved away from that. Because some, most people are pursuing popularity, acting as if they're pursu. They're pursuing popularity, but they're acting as if they're pursuing impact. And, and so just get really clear. And I got clear at one point, popularity was important to me because it validated what I was doing. And then I had to grow up and grow out of that and go, okay, so popularity is not important to me now. Impact is important. Well, when impact is important, then you're willing to work behind the scenes and have your elbow up to your elbows in mud. No one even knows you have mud all over you because you want the impact. And so when I got there, then that's when I gave myself CEO permission to be born. Because she was willing to do whatever behind the scenes, however, with whomever she was willing to raise leaders up versus be the leader. In my prayer time about seven years ago, I was praying, God, what else do I do? What else do I do? And in my prayer time, I heard you're the Michael Jordan of speaking in some people's eyes. But I don't need you to be the Michael Jordan of speaking. I need you to be the Phil Jackson of transformation. And so it felt like it was overnight that all of a sudden it stopped being about me touching a bigger stage and started being about me helping as many people see their dream.

What a powerful message to receive. I love that. If it makes you feel better, you're saying you were. Not that you need to feel better, but you were saying it was intimidating. Look, I have an MBA from Wharton, and it's still intimidating. Like, it doesn't matter how much knowledge you have. You're like, there's a lot of zeros on those numbers. And if you screw it up, like, you screw it up, right? Like, the pressure is real.

Yeah, it is real.

So I, I, I feel you on that one.

Amen.

And I'm really curious when you are praying, right, and, and you're asking, you know, what should speak? How does that, how does that appear to you? I mean, you're, you're a leader in personal development. So do you hear a booming voice? Does a burning bush talk to you? Like, how does the message land?

I learned very, very well not very early on I won't say that I learned very clearly for me that I used to pray and ask the universe, ask God questions, and then I get super busy and I complain that I'm not finding the answers. And number one, an answer isn't something to find. An answer is something to allow to uncover itself.

I love that.

So we're in such steady pursuit, and you don't pursue the answer. You allow the answer to uncover itself. And so to me, prayer is asking the universe for what you need and want. Stillness is being quiet long enough to hear the answer. And so for me, I wouldn't hear a lot of responses because I was always busy being busy being busy. And whenever I would sit down to meditate, I would fall asleep. I would feel bad. I'm like, I suck at this. I keep falling asleep every time. Or like, when I'd read a book, I'd fall asleep like, every. Every time. I just got still, I'd fall asleep. Well, a lot of that had to do with number one, I had significantly really bad sleep apnea and didn't know it.

Wow.

Yeah, I had really bad sleep apnea. And at the time, I was over £215. I had sleep apnea. I was severely anemic. So of course, every time I'm still, I go to sleep. But I was blaming my practice as if I just wasn't disciplined enough. And so when I began to sit in stillness and ask a question and invite in the answer. And the other part, Dave, was recognizing how I asked the question. So the quality of my answers. The quality of your answers are directly determined by the quality of your questions. This was a really great lesson for me to learn that when I asked a question and it started with why, like, why is it so hard? God, why is it? I am immediately asking for the most disempowering answer I could possibly ever find.

Like, why do I suck? Why do you still suck?

Right, Exactly. Well, let me give you the top five reasons why you suck. Right? So I begin to screen my questions. Like, I begin to mind my question. So I. I only ask forward moving questions. And so instead of saying, God, why is this happening to me? I would say, God, what's the lesson that I get to learn? Because I'm going through this. That is my question.

That is such powerful, Such powerful stuff. Thank you for saying that on the show, everyone, if you're listening to this, like, rewind 15 seconds and hear that again.

It changed everything. It changed everything in my life. All of a sudden, all of my answers were substantive Things that I can actually do something with every single answer. Because I'd ask the question, God, what am I supposed to learn? What lesson am I learning right now while I'm going through this breakup? God, tell me the areas that I get to strengthen in in order to move through this challenging time. Like I just started asking forward pulling questions. And when I got the answer, the answer gave me things that I could be doing. And so I would do it in stillness. It's always been very challenging for me to sit still. It's just, it's been. But it's also when I could hear, when I could hear my heart, when I can hear the universe, when I can hear my God speak to me, it's a whisper. Always say my head screams, but my God whispers.

And that's beautiful.

And so often I don't hear the God in me because my head is chattering so loud and I'm allowing my head to take over the conversation. So my job is to quiet my head so that my heart and my God and my internal GPS system, my God placement system, my GPS God placement system can navigate.

That's super profound. What's the difference if someone's praying, you know, God, I want something to happen versus God, please help me make something happen. What is the difference in outcome?

I want is asking for it to be delivered at your door by UPS prime or Amazon prime. And help me to make says I'm a co creator in my own destiny. But here's the other part to that is an even greater question. Is God help me to make happen what you want for me?

I love it that you said that.

Right? Because when you have a finite outcome, whether you want God to make it happen for you or you want God to make it happen through you, you have such a finite. You have such a finite. You only want what you want based on what you know, right? There's so much infinite wisdom beyond what you know that to me is create for me and bring to me the most perfect experience that's only mine to have and open my heart so that I receive it with full gratitude, compassion and empathy. Allow me to be an instrument to use it for the greatest good, for the greatest number of people. Have with it what you may like, that having that kind of openness that gives me chills.

Have you ever seen yourself do that? If you had my lenses right now and your voice changes like you lean forward and you're like m okay or somebody like lately your voice gets deeper and you're just like transmitting at full power. That's some heavy stuff, but I love it.

Thank you.

When I meditate, I actually do something similar. I say, thanks for using me today. I don't really know. And of course I have my goals, but that's all ego at the end.

Of the day, right?

Where maybe my goals are stupid goals and I just don't know it. So if there's something else I ought to be doing, and this is tied into something, the reason I'm asking it this way is tied into something you put on your website and something that infuriated me for the first half of my life as a computer science engineering guy. And you say, everything happens for a reason. Okay, why do you say everything happens for a reason? I accept it now, but I don't know why you say that.

Yeah, yeah. There's infinite wisdom. I believe that you're being prepared for experiences in 2022 that you don't even know about. And our dots connect. They're divine appointments in our lives. And our ego says, if I don't know what good it's for, then it's for no good. But that's your finite understanding. There's an infinite wisdom happening on your behalf. There's things being orchestrated on your behalf. There are things that happened 20 years ago that next year are going to come to fruition. There's something you did. I got fired from five jobs in my 20s. I was. While you were on the college circuit, becoming extremely brilliant in education, I was getting fired from, like, retail jobs.

I was failing my classes. Don't. I barely graduated.

While you were struggling in class, I was struggling out here in the world trying to figure out what was my gift like. I just didn't know what my gift was. And I remember by the time I was 27, I was pregnant with Jelani. And I was like, okay, life is just over. Like, this is. This is. It can't get any worse. I had already been fired. Now I'm pregnant. And fast forward 15 years. I'm using every single skill set that I got from those five jobs that I was fired from, but you couldn't have told me that I needed that job as a office manager of an interior design company. You couldn't have told me that. You couldn't have told me that I was going to use my bookkeeping. You know, thank God. I was. I was horrible in accounting, but I was in bookkeeping for several years. I was in collections for several years. And so I just believe that. That there is a. A picture that's so much bigger than what you can see and contain and you're connecting the dots for what's in your lenses right now. But the story is bigger and grander and it has pieces and there are parts that come alive that you have to have this experience five years from now to even trigger that to come alive. I just believe it. So. And I believe that if something, if something happens and it's not for you, then it's designed to make you stronger. So you understand, like I just believe. And I could be woo woo. And I could be, you know, okie pokey because. But I've been able to use everything. Either it gave me a good outcome or it gave me a good lesson. I needed both. I needed both. Either it gave me the result I wanted or it gave me the spirit of patience and understanding. Like where it doesn't give me the physical outcome, it gives me the character. If you look at it that way, but you can look at something in such a way that it absolutely has no value in your life. No value. The same thing can happen to two different people. We've seen it before. Same thing happens to two different people and one person uses as fuel and the other person is the turning point of their lives and everything goes bad from that point forward. I think it's the lenses you choose to look through.

I selected a lens and I've certainly read the Secret and been influenced by the world of personal development, which certainly includes you. And thank you for that.

You're welcome.

I've chosen a lens where I do believe everything happens for a reason. For the simple fact that even if it doesn't, if I can convince my subconscious that's true, I'm less stressed.

And you bounce back sooner, quicker, faster.

Yeah, right. And also I don't have to know the reason. I used to. When you're an engineer, you're like, there's a reason for everything and I have to know it so I can hack it. And now it's like, you know, sometimes I don't know the reason, but I got the result. I'm just going to go with it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And okay, here's the one. Do you believe in past lives?

I respect the thought. I haven't, I haven't delved deep into it. I've. I've hung around enough of my friends, you know, you know, our circle. And so I respect the possibility. I do believe that. I do believe that there are earlier versions of us. I do believe that we are an evolving. We are an evolving species. I do believe that. I do believe that our spirit isn't bound by time.

That's a beautiful way of putting it.

I do believe that I haven't put it in a context. I haven't put it in a finite way. I found. You know what I found, Dave? I found that I grew up in such a rigid religion, and I needed it. It was my foundation. You always. You get what you need when you need it. I have a lot of pain points around religion. And when I was able to find spirituality and I was able to find the peace and the grace of the ebb and the flow, I was able to find the peace and the grace of allowing there to be multiple forms of how God shows up. The peace and the grace of, like, everything. Like, I. When I begin to move inside of this expansiveness, to go, wow, we're all touching, expanding beings. And however that looks, it felt so much better for me. And so while I don't know a lot about it, I embrace it as a possibility. You know, just as I believe that there are angels that are dispensed around us, and I think, feel my traveling angels come with me. I'm thankful for them. I send out extra angels when my son's on the road, you know, and so my spiritual evolution has constantly allowed me to take in more, so that I can. So that I can see more, so that I can have more, so that I can love more, so that there are no barriers. There's only bridges to. From me to humanity. So I believe that if someone experiences a past life, then they. Then. Then they have one. And I believe spirits do come to us. And I believe I was absolutely a man at some point. I resonate too much with the male energy. I just. I know that there was something in me, an alpha woman, as well as I think that I was something very, very fragile at one point, you know. Cause I'm beginning to sit more in my. Very fragile. I wish I knew another word for it, but just my very gentle, delicate. Delicate and soft. Yeah, I'm relaxing more into my delicate, soft side. And she's just absolutely amazing to witness because I've never met her before.

I've worked with a good number of women CEOs, and especially if you started 20, 25 years ago like you did, man, it was tougher than it is today. I feel like we've made some progress. And so you have to bring so much masculine energy that when you're like, oh, I need to be in balance and be able to bring forth the feminine and be able to bring forth the masculine man, those are some advanced spiritual ninja skills to be able to switch from mom mode into alpha mode, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Did you find a method or have a teacher in order to be able to switch that way or. It sounds like you're still working on how do I turn on, you know, full feminine. Not that feminine is delicate. It's soft. They're very different.

Right.

What's your trick there?

No, I did not have a teacher.

Okay. It's very weird to even talk about this on the show. I'm happy you can go there.

Yeah, absolutely. I remember when I first started, I would speak at this conference that Jackson Canfield, your friend of mine, was at, and T. Harveckert was at, and Mark Victor Hansen and Bob Proctor and all of them. And I remember wearing. And it was 24 instructors, and I was the only woman instructor, and I was the only instructor of color, and I was the youngest instructor by 18 years. So no pressure. No, no. It was all older white men and me. And I remember this was an eight day conference and I spoke three times. The first time I spoke, I wore a navy blue suit. The second time I spoke, I wore a black suit. And the last time I spoke, I wore a gray suit. And every time I spoke, I pulled my hair back in a really tight ponytail and I realized I was trying to blend in.

Yeah.

And I was unconscious. And I remember saying, if I step outside of this box of structure, they won't take me as seriously. They being the audience. And I played in that rigid box, which so many women CEOs do. And I remember the month I decided I can't do this anymore. I had 18 suits. I gave all 18 suits away.

That's so awesome.

My girlfriend said, what if you go to a conference and they require you. She said, what if you're invited to a conference and they require you to wear a suit? I said, then I get to decline the conference. Like, if I don't get to wear a dress and a pair of pumps and stilettos, I don't want to play. Like, I just don't want to lose my. I don't want to lose my femininity. I embrace her. It took me a while to meet her. You know, I was an athlete, so I was a Tom girl. And so I remember stepping into it, but making sure that it didn't come across too sensual and too sexual. And that was something I was concerned about. And it's funny you should mention Vishen early earlier, because Mindvalley was the place that I allowed Myself to kind of play because they freaking didn't play by anybody else's rules anyway. Right?

Yeah, it's a super playful event, right?

Yeah, it's a super playful. So there I was able to let my arms out. I would never let my arms. I would, you know, always have to have at least a tea length, you know, or something. I said, no, I want to lift my arms, I want to show my guns. I. I just began to sample a little bit more and a little bit more. And as my track record as a CEO kept growing, I would. It was almost like I gave myself permission. Let a little more woman out. She's okay. See, she can play, she can handle it. But I literally had to dance with that. And. And as a single woman traveling, I also wanted to make sure that I was professional and that I, I didn't send wrong messages and that I didn't want to get to any place without the same hard work as the next. You know, there's all these things going on and then I had the same chatter. As an African American woman, what's different there?

I mean, I can put my mindset in a lot of these things, but this is a mindset I don't have. So what does that voice in your head say that's different?

Well, that voice is where there are several women, they're probably not African American. So there's another sense of no one else there. And so, so there's. There's. That. That. That's been me for years. Like most stages, I'm the only African American on. And I don't wear that as. Oh, darn. That. That to me is my super highlighter is like, I'm not worried about being the one you remember, you know, So I would always wear it as that. Like, no, I just want more highlighter for me. And when people would ask me, particularly African Americans would say, how did you get on these stages as an African American woman? I said, I didn't get on the stage as an African American woman. I got on the stage as an impactful speaker who has contribution to give to the audience. And so I don't wear any label. Woman, African American, single mom. I don't wear any label over my ability.

Wow.

When people say, how did you do it as a single mother? I go, literally, I would forget that I was a single mother. Like, I didn't, I didn't wear it. I didn't have the conversation like that. I did it as a mother who happened to be riding the journey with her son. She and her Son alone. I'm not doing it as a single mother. I'm not doing it as an African American. I'm not doing it as a woman. I'm doing it as someone who has something to contribute to the planet, who just happens to be an African American single mom. Does that make sense? That's how you wear it. And so I would remind people, you step in the door and you drag every label with you, and then you spotlight the label and ask everyone to see you at the front. And I just stopped doing that. I stopped. And I would correct people when they tried to put it on me, too. And non African Americans, I would be in circles, predominantly with white men. And they would say something every now and again like, well, Lisa, how does it feel being the only woman here? And I go, I don't know. You tell me. How does it feel sitting with the only woman here? You know, I turn it back on them and go, I'm not wearing that badge. Or, how does it feel as a black woman on this stage with T.R. becker? I'm a speaker who's given contribution besides T.R. beckert. I just put it right back on them. I'm not wearing it. And I would even. And single mothers were the ones that wanted me to wear it the most because they wanted me to be in the club. And I go, listen, I'm in a global club, and I am a single mom, but I'm not gonna be restricted only to that. There's too much of me.

You sound kind of like Morgan Freeman. I've heard an interview with him, a famous one, and I was just blown away, going, wow, you know, that's just like showing up with every aspect of yourself all at once and not overweighting any of them, including at this point, now, you've got your alpha side, you've got your feminine side, and you're able to just bring them all and just be you. And to me, it sounds like that's why when you go into that I'm going to call it MLK mode, when you lean forward and your voice changes and you're just, like, vibrating your message out there, you're showing up all the way. It's a very rare thing, and it's beautiful. So, you know, nice job.

Thank you, Dave. I look at it this way, I've been saying for probably about 24 years, my grandmother taught me when I was young that when you get to the end of your life, what you want to hear God say is, job well done, my child. But I asked my grandmother when I was about 16. I said, Grandma, why do I have to wait till the end of my life? Every night when I go to bed, I'd like to hear, job well done, my child. And so if you were to hear. To talk to my first employee, Margaret Packer. Her anniversary was last week. She's been with me for 13 years. If you say, what does Lisa work for? She would say, to hear each night before she drifts off to sleep. Today you gave it all. Job well done, my child. There's this part in scripture, I don't know where it is. I don't know the scriptures in the Bible very well, but there's this part where this woman. It was during famine time, and a disciple asked her. She only had a little bit of flour, a little bit of water and a little bit of oil. And everyone was starving. And this disciple asked her, would you make me bread with this? She says, I only have a little bit for me and my family. And they said, but if you make it for me, you'll be taken care of. So she trusted. She had faith. She made the loaf of bread. And every day she would have a little bit of flour, a little bit of water and a little bit of oil. And the next day she would have a little bit of flour, a little bit of water and a little bit of oil. And what's funny is I still don't know the scripture. But I've been asking my team, Margaret, the same person, I said, margaret, tell me about the scripture. Because every day, Dave, I give my all. I'm not trying to hold anything for tomorrow. Cause I believe tomorrow when I wake up, I'm gonna have a little bit of flour, a little bit of oil and a little bit of water to give tomorrow what tomorrow requires.

That's amazing. So it replenishes overnight.

It's. What does playing full out mean? Don't hold back. Don't hold back waiting for something to happen. To give your all. Don't rob me of this moment. Don't rob anyone listening to you of this moment. Don't rob your family of this moment of love. Love. Don't rob someone this the moment of transparency. Give the moment everything you have with the knowing that in the next moment you'll get enough of what you need to give that what it needs. But don't hold back. Don't wait. Don't get ready to get ready to get ready to play full out. Play full out love. Full out forgive. Full out Jump, leap, fly or fall full out. Just play full out. Because otherwise you you will have the memory that you played at 40%.

Wow. All right, Lisa, you sold me. I got to take one of your speaking courses.

You sound like Jack and JJ and everyone else.

I'm watching you do this, and your message is on. But, man, how do you deliver stuff like that? I mean, I've been studying speaking for a long time, and I'm pretty well trained here, but I'm watching this. I'm like, man, you're a master of the content. But, man, like, I don't know how you do that, but I'm watching that, going, there's something special here. I'm going to learn that from you.

I would love that. I would love to show you.

Okay, I will sign up now. We're almost at the end of the interview. And, guys, if you like this interview, the next phase of this is going to be part of the interview for the Biohacking Conference, October 10th. And we're going to focus with Lisa on resilience and on what makes her tick and how to have more resilience during, well, these uncommon, unfortunate times. In other words, during now.

Right, right, right.

It's going to be really fun. So, Lisa, thank you for being on the public part of Bulletproof Radio, and thank you even more for being at the conference.

Absolutely. I'm excited to be with you. I choose you, brother.

Thank you. Your website, motivatingthemasses.com and, guys, if you're looking in the world of personal development and you're saying, how do I know what to do now? How do I find my purpose in my life? If you haven't figured it out from this interview, Lisa's one of the masters. She actually knows what she's talking about at a very deep level, and there's a lot to learn from her work. So I really would highly recommend check it out, follow on social media and things like that. But motivatingthemasses.com is where to go. I promise you that there is deep knowledge here.

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