ENERGY: 3 Ways to Find Your Flow – A Top 10 Episode with Dr. Barry Morguelan

Bulletproof Radio. A state of high performance.

You're listening to Bulletproof Radio with Dave Asprey. Today's guest is a friend and someone who's done a lot of work for me. His name is Dr. Barry Morgulin. And Dr. Barry is a gastroenterology and endoscopic surgeon from UCLA Medical Center. And he's spent 35 years in practice. So very well credentialed guy who's traveled around the world teaching other doctors how to perform surgery without just opening someone up from navel to sternum instead going in with a little endoscope. But that's not what we're going to talk about. We are going to talk about the fact that over the last 35 years, he's been traveling to China and learning these amazing Chinese energy healing techniques that make him one of 12 living grand masters of his energy medicine tradition. So I'm going to ask Barry about that. You're going to learn what he's done for me. And Barry's not exactly a famous guy, but he's supported presidents of countries. When Tony Robbins goes on stage quite often, Barry's been in the back of the room helping him out. When I had the opportunity to speak on Tony's main stage, people said, oh, you know, Barry, like everyone on Tony's staff loves you, Barry, because you've been there a lot of times. And when I first heard about you from our mutual friend Jay Abraham, who's also been on Bulletproof Radio, Jay's like, I can't tell you what he does. Just he does something interesting and unique and you like him, go meet him. So we met and you put cups on me. He did all sorts of stuff that really most UCLA surgeons don't do. So first off, welcome to the show, and I want to get into your story.

Thank you. Thank you very much for having me come.

You graduated from medical school in 1973, right?

Right. I started practicing around 78 and then began into gastroenterology and boards around the 80s. So really I went full force, I'd say, around 1981.

All right, so the year after I was born, you graduated from medical school and you've been going out and working ever since then. And you searched the world, though you didn't just go to China. What other places have you been to learn about energy medicine?

Italy, Germany, Europe, 13 different countries, South America, Central America, all were great, but I still didn't find what I wanted. And so that time I made up my mind. I said, the only place I haven't gone is China. But back then, China was not China. Today. It wasn't like Manhattan Beach. I mean, Manhattan and New York landing there. It was completely different. When I finally went there, it was just rickshaws, bicycles, crowded streets, very. Almost no cars and not a wealthy population. So when I got to work there, finally I had the opportunity when I was in one of the hospitals, to read some books that had pictures in them. And those books had pictures of people treating somebody but not touching them, not doing anything, and the person was getting well. So I asked the doctors I was working with there, and they said, yeah, that's the source of all of Chinese medicine. That's the source of everything. That's. Remember, we're the Middle Kingdom. You know, they still had all that information from those days. And whether you're a Western doctor who believes or not, that's their culture. And actually, it's very useful to know the principles behind that. How did you establish, well, the trust? Trust is a real interesting thing in China. I was able to work in the hospitals, had wonderful connections with all the people there and the doctors. And so I kept, you know, at lunch, at dinner, sometimes over their house, they said, come on, you must have somebody who could take me there. And so finally a couple of them said, okay, well, my cousin will take you this far, and then his friend will take you beyond there, and you're on your own. We can't protect you.

So you're at the hospital. I mean, didn't you learn about Chinese herbs first?

Yeah, that was really funny.

Really funny. So from the hospital you went, and how did you learn about the herbs?

Because that was before I found that book. So. Because I asked them, remember every city I would go into, I'd ask the doctors, okay, what do you have different. What do you have that you use instead of, you know, routine Western medicine? Pharmacopoeia, surgery. They go, you're at the top of the endoscopic advancing curve, and you want to know about something from our old culture. I said, that's really why I'm here. And so they said, okay, what you can do is we have a nearby traditional Chinese medicine hospital. And there they. They have acupuncture, herbology, and some massage, some acupressure. So they said, if you want to go there, great, go ahead, we'll set it up for you. So I actually worked in the pharmacies.

There and working up salamander eyes.

Yeah, the pharmacy there is not what you expect. It really is. There's a big open window that they have to Keep open all the time, because with the fumes coming up, it's really almost toxic. That gets you to have a direction for it to go out. And then the. The ladies who were there, let's just say that you don't have the antiseptic technique that we have in the West. It was, okay, go over there and pull out that little drawer that you'd have to, like, reach up to get. And there was all these little tiny wooden drawers, like in Harry Potter. And that guy there, kind of like the finger. Yeah, like this, a little smaller. You just pull. You pull it out. And sometimes I couldn't even see what was in there. Plus, they were dirty and dusty. So you go in your eyes, you go, I wonder how often this thing has been opened and what are they going to do with it? And so I'd reach in there and I'd go, oh, what is this? It was so fascinating to me that they could make these potions. And then I would go upstairs with the pharmacist afterwards and with the nurse, and we'd roll this cart twice a day, and we stay in the patient's bed and say, okay, drink this. And we'd have to watch them drink their medicine. Okay. And so, yeah, so while I was there, you know, I had to try it. I said, well, you're here. I'm going to see what this is like. The patient looks like they're tolerating it. So I tried to drink almost every one of them, you know, drink as much as I could and see what would happen. And let's just say you really have to want to get well with that. That regimen because the taste is unbelievably not okay.

So you. You learned all this and you said, I can't bring this back to ucla. And then what happened? How did you get to the next level? Did you go to the Shaolin Temple or what was the deal there?

No, the next level was I was already doing martial arts. I've been doing martial arts both here and during the eight years when I was searching. And the. Even though I did go to the Shaolin Temple and did get to meet a number of those wonderful people and get to do the exercises with them and have a great time, it still wasn't. You know, I didn't think that standing on wooden posts and doing different poses was still every client, every patient was going to do when I come back. I wanted something that the person could take off on their own and they wouldn't have to, like, be that powerful because some of the Shaolin gods were really powerful. They could break things, which I loved. Learning how to break through wood and rocks.

You learned all that kind of stuff?

Yeah, yeah. Because I thought maybe it was on the way. I thought maybe I was a discoverer, I would sort of find it in all these different things, but I didn't.

So you're a pretty peaceful guy, but, like, could you turn that on right now and, like, kick my ass?

I wouldn't do that to you, Dave. Of course you would.

I mean, do you still have that?

You can't say that to your friends.

No, no, no, of course you wouldn't. We're friends. But in other words, like, you walk around, you're a very, very peaceful guy. But do you have that, like.

Oh, the ability that if somebody actually. Yeah, it's one of the things that's really. It's one of the really things that's important with this discipline that I'd love for everybody everywhere to have at their fingertips is that you get this ability to be 360. So instead of just being, hi, I'm here with you, you're not just sensing this, which is part of the whole program. You're sensing here, you're sensing here, and you're actually sensing behind you, too. So if you have all those sensors on which some of you go, I didn't know I had those sensors. Well, this is what it's about. You all you have. Someone enters this field, you'll notice it. You'll notice. You'll go there. The other day, Krista, who's with me, executive, one of your assistant. Yeah. We're going through the airport, and we're talking, talking, talking. And then I just said to her, what is the. Where do we. Where are we supposed to. You know, which one of these kiosks are we supposed to go in to board the plane? And she said, let me check the ticket. Because we got so engrossed, we didn't even know where we were exactly, but we knew we were in the right terminal. And she says, okay, da, da, da number. I said, that's it right there, right in front of it. She goes, you did it again. You know, serendipity. All of a sudden, even though you're involved in something that is completely different than knowing where you are in airport, part of you is still picking that up. And so then when we stopped in that place, we actually stopped in exactly the place that would support us. So we didn't lose any time. We. We got to do two things at once.

So you have the situational awareness, and you still have your martial art sort of background.

And some of the things we were doing earlier, a story.

I want to remember that this is another of my very advanced martial arts friends who was telling the story of one of his teachers who was walking down the street in the 80s. He was walking with his friend. And apparently back then, the cool thing was, if you see someone who you can just tell as a martial artist, people came up to challenge him to a fight.

That's right. See, it's so hard for Americans to understand that. What do you mean? You mean you're walking down the street and people may break into a fight? Yes, the discipline for many, many years. And some of the old Chinese movies will show you that. That, oh, this clan is over here learning this type and this type. No, it's not like, okay, that's great. No one of you is going to end up the one telling the other one that their style is not okay. And so there's constant fighting. Yeah, I saw a lot of that.

You saw a lot of that. Okay, well. Well, in this case, my friend was walking with a really advanced master who really wasn't into fighting. But the guy's picked up and he said, I don't want to fight you guys. And they said, no, we're going to. And he said, all right. And he did something, and they basically both fell down without being touched. And you could just say, fine, whatever. That's a myth. But no, my friend was there. He's not lying to me. Right. Like, this happened. And then as soon as the guy was in, he goes, oh, I have to do too much masculine energy. I have to do some feminine energy to balance things out, because I don't like doing that anymore. But it's fascinating that there's that stuff. So did you meet the guys who can do this? Yes, yes.

That's when I finally got to the top of the mountain and they showed me. Well, at first, they didn't want to show me anything, of course.

Tell me that story. It's cool. What happened when you got there?

When I first got there, it was like I was seeing what I finally always wanted to see. For now going on to nine years. And where was.

It was the top of a mountain. How'd you get there?

First on the. You know, first on a train, then on the back of some guy's motorcycle sitting on that thing. And then there was a long walk up the mountain.

Okay.

And by the time I got there, I was not certain what would happen after that. I didn't know if I'd be. Just because they told me how much bad experiences you can have up there. But I. But I did see as I was going that there are people carrying other sick people on different routes up the mountain. So I was going, well, okay, they're doing it, but sure, how they carrying that person?

It was like a monastery with imposing gates.

No, not. Not such imposing gates, but definitely a monastery. And definitely some wonderful Chinese buildings with some great things in the ground that had some, you know, the symbolism of the dao and also all the different positions to be in. It was. It was drawings of that. It was fascinating. And I was just watching people actually doing the thing I've been searching for all these years and didn't even know it existed. So finally I knew it existed. So this was like the greatest experience. I was like, happy. And they didn't even act like I existed back then.

In China, if you're a Westerner, usually you get a huge amount of attention. I mean, when I first went there, they're like, I want to take a picture with you.

That's right.

Because I've never seen someone so tall.

Yeah, right. In the cities almost 20 years ago. Right, right. When I was in the cities when playing with kids. It's wonderful. Everybody wanted to touch you. Hold on to take a photo. Wonderful. But up here, remember, their M.O. was that you really don't belong here. So they wouldn't ignore you.

Huh?

So they would ignore you all. Completely. Completely.

And they're all, but they let you in.

They didn't kick me out, let's put it that way. And so I went, you know, do I want to stay here with all this, like, you know, non appreciation connection? And of course, you know, I have a voice in the back of my head back then, not so much now, but it's going, hey, they shouldn't be treating you this way. What is going on? They should at least have some courtesy.

Rodney Dangers.

Yeah, no respect. But then, you know, I said, you know, I'm so excited about being here, I didn't care.

Do they give you a bed? Like, how did you sleep and eat and things like that?

Even the first week or so. Let's just say it wasn't so clean where I slept a lot. It wasn't so clean. Yeah, I wasn't really. Yeah, it was sort of like a barracks, but not really a bed. It's just like a board that I slept on. But it was okay. I used one of those. I wrapped up some clothes or pillow and Sat there, lay there. And that was fine, because in the morning, everybody would be up doing certain kinds of exercises, which I knew from the martial arts, but these were different, the exercises they were doing. So I would just get the line behind the other, you know, maybe 15 students that are there. And then everybody would look at me like, what are you doing here? Why are you here? But, you know, I figured if they're going to throw me out, they're going to have to physically throw me out after this amount. And so I would just follow their exercise, and I would love doing that. And so then. And they were a little bit nicer in terms of letting me at least know when there was going to be lunch and dinner. Because in China in those days, everything was. Wasn't a very wealthy country, but everybody's very communal. It was communist, but it was communal. People, like, hung together in a nice way, and. And that part was okay. But still, no one would answer any questions. If I asked a question, they would look at me like, we're not going to answer that. You know, maybe stay here three years. Maybe we'll answer that four years. You could see that the sneers never left. So it was sort of. I used to call it like the experience of a stray dog, or there's actually a word they kept calling me while I was there, which isn't a complimentary term, but I learned to turn it around. Yeah. And so there's a thing called guilao. Oh, yeah. Guilau does not mean good. Guilao means foreign devil. So you're bad. You're a bad thing. So after a while, I with, you know, my mandra's much better then. But I would introduce myself as well, sidweilao, and everybody go, what? Why do you say that? Because I didn't even have a name. That was my thing, because that's what everybody else called me.

But there's more of the story of what happened.

You want that back at the temples?

Yeah.

Tell me more.

What do they do at the temple that taught you the story? What was it like to wear this?

Okay. The hard part was that every single test they gave me was not fun. And every single test made me actually, you know, it doesn't matter how positive you are, doesn't matter how many great surgeries you've done in the United States, how many people you taught. You know, you're out there hanging on a mountain in the middle of cold, and no one's there caring about you. And you've got to be doing either certain exercises or you've been given an assignment to figure out this koan, and you have no idea what it even means. And so it means you have to stay out there. If you come back, they're treating you worse than they treated you before they sent you out.

So you had these. What was the highest level of challenge, the most challenging one you went through?

There was physical things you had to be able to stand on, your hands. One, you know, things that people do here in the military, which is not very common for a doctor. You know, one hand push ups, then four finger pushups, three finger push ups. Those things I'm not. My hands are for surgery, not for those things. But they were always intimating, which turned out to be absolutely true, is that you sort of have two bodies. You've got the one that you've sort of allowed to express itself through whatever channel you came, whether you came through Brooklyn or you came through Los Angeles, you came through Seattle. It doesn't matter whose family, where it is. Pretty much people's bodies are within a certain range. And then that's not your only body. You've got all this energy to connect to in the world. Some people like to say your energy body. But what that does, that's like a limitation also, because people go, well, how far is your energy body going? Then they go to one expert and goes, well, it goes to here, I can show you. But actually, no, it actually can extend as far as not only you want to or you need to.

So you talk about a fast path to enlightenment. So you went through all this aggressive training. So I mean, do you consider yourself enlightened?

No, I think enlightenment's a process. But at least I know where the road is. At least I know. At least I know what the path is. And I know that we're on a mountain that has no top.

So the first time I did a treatment with you, I didn't really know what to expect. But I've done all sorts of. I've done ayahuasca and South America 20 something years ago before it was cool. And so I'm suspend my disbelief. Go into your office, which doesn't. At least your healing office doesn't necessarily look like a typical surgeon's office. And I sat down and he said, all right, lay here. And I was kind of going to an altered state. You were clearly doing something. And you put cups on my back, did suction and all sorts of stuff. And when we were done, I'm like, all right, I know something happened here. And then you said, no, One can touch you for two days.

Yes. What was the deal? Two days plus the day you're there. Yeah.

What did you do?

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So for you, I took all the places that were obvious to me that would really benefit by the getting the energy so that like the liver would perk up and the kidney would perk up. All those things that I wanted to get the energy opened in those sensors and then also the ones that would give you more of a chance to have super clear thinking. Because I knew that was part of your, you know, your whole creation of your business. Remember back then, it's not like now. You've done tremendous. I'm thrilled to be able to go forward. I think you're writing your second book or one of the.

Yeah, I was working on a Headstrong.

Yeah, you're working on a Headstrong and also a number of other things. And my goal is to have those parts of your body that would keep you not only keep those sensors open, but they would continue to stay open. It's part of the big eight that the things involved with the big eight. What's the big eight? Well, the energy itself, this discipline, the source energy, the source for, you know, acupuncture, tai chi, all those things. There's like eight major areas that you can definitely see something happening dramatically. So first Would be. Let me go into them.

Yeah.

First would be like, your health. That was my main reason for going there. So as far as diseases, being knocked out by colds, being knocked out by allergies, being knocked out by any kind of injury, maybe even martial arts, if you get that problem with these exercises or watching the videos, the audios, the disease either comes in for a much shorter period or it just floats through and you just notice a little uneasiness till finally, you know, maybe after a period of time that you don't even have the problems that everybody at work is having.

So one of the eight was health. What are the other ones?

Yeah, health. And you want to have vitality also. So it really doesn't matter what you're doing. You want to be, like, ready to go for it. So really, this all fits that part of us that you can get stronger with life. It's one of the main tenets. And life doesn't have to be hard. It could be easier and more fun and more exciting. Finding out about yourself and about the whole world and including relationships, that's the one of the three. The relationship thing is because you're more peaceful inside. When you're feeling like, I'm really capable and I'm strong, my health is good and I'm going to be able to do what I want to do. Because strength and power is another one.

I've got this.

Yeah, I've got this. So that when someone comes up and forget about road rage, just the normal day, you're in the hall and you say hello to somebody and they look at you like, why did you say hello to me? Or somebody knocks you and they're being inconsiderate, and so you could be offended by that. But if you're in this peaceful state, you don't have to think about it. You're just, okay, that was interesting. And you keep on moving. You stay on your goal.

I'm that way now. I didn't used to be that way.

You stay on your goal, where you want to go, make things happen the way you want them to. And then you keep pulling more into the sensors so relationship improves. So that your field is such that you're more kind and you're more considerate for other people because you have the experience that you're, one, not beating up on yourself. Two, you don't have to think about your psychological situation. You're actually just feeling good. You're actually in that able state. And one of the others in the eight is people, especially the athletes, talk about this is that it's constantly. You get to be in the experience of the zone, you get to be in the experience of flow. And part of the eight is you have got that. And one of the other greats is called serendipity on command, which is that people notice not only your relationships get better and people are nicer to you, but that also. And you're nicer to them and you don't even know what you did. And I've had that from so many people, especially professionals. Their wives write me and they say, listen, I want him to keep seeing you because our marriage is back to much better shape than it ever was before. And I don't know what he did with you, but I want him to keep doing it. I said, well, the exercise and watch the video. In the serendipity on command, what happens is you find that your time is much more your own to get things done and more time to share with other people, because things start happening for you that you didn't actually hammer it out, but you made a goal or intention. And these people start coming to you and that you never thought you'd be able to contact with. One of the things is not only strength and the vitality, but in the creativity. But you also notice that you're not a person who's. You have to be finding something wrong with yourself all the time. You find out instead of. And then trying to cover that over with confidence. And everybody's trying to teach you how to be more confident or how to be more motivated. What you do is you start experiencing like I'm sure you went through. And then people continue, if they do the exercises or try to do whatever else they're doing in life, you. You experience, you're more competent because you have all these qualities inside of you, otherwise you wouldn't have thought them before. You know, you have the competence in there. Those sensors are connected up. It's just. You have to have them stay open. And then you can do like a child does, staying on his hands. Another one of the eight, which is you get to have no more of that word people talk about overwhelm. No more concern, no more that I've got to be anxious all the time. We have one lady that you would love. This lady. I mean, I would say her name, but we'll just say she's a really attractive thin woman from the Middle east who was about to fail out of medical school. And so she came to me and she said, the anxiety medicines aren't working. The psychiatric help isn't working and I live with my parents and I just. Somebody said that you could help all this severe anxiety and my grade, I have test anxiety, my grades are terrible. And she was lowest in her class. And so I said yeah, this will work in that area. We've seen it with people much younger than you that your brain opens up and you can start to pull things in easily like catching the ball. So she over a year's time did the exercises. Her grades not only got better, but she ended up graduating in the top of her class, which is hard to believe, but it's true. And getting a position of either she was the president of the class or some large position on in her class after that, after being a low person down here in terms of her competence. But see the competence was not where it came from out here. The competence came from within and therefore her confidence went up. So she got off all the medications too. She's no longer on those medications. And better story I think the last part of the eight is terms of relationships. She really, she says well I'm feeling so great, I think maybe I could leave my parents home and not live there.

Strike out on her own.

Yeah. And she said, but you know, they've got it very. It's a Middle Eastern religion, I don't say which one, but it's very serious that you stay within this clan and we tell you everything what to do. And she said I'm afraid of their wrath. And I said ah, just use the energy and you can communicate like you were talking about when you go home with your wife. And so she did and they had a peaceful separation. Got her own condo and worked out. So all those in the different categories of what the energy is valuable for, it comes with the treatment. Just each one of the treatments that you go through or the different audios are specific for certain problems, certain things you want to have happen, like brighter intelligence, your time management becomes easy, you can multitask.

So the treatments you do are, are usually for people at a certain level of success. They're really expensive and you're treating some of the most powerful people in the world. And the school that you come from was to protect the emperor of China. This is some high end stuff. So these are people who got one on one treatments. But what you've done is you've basically taken this stuff and you've put it in videos and you teach it in larger groups so it becomes more just more accessible to people who aren't fortunate enough to be able to fly to LA and Get an hour of your time. Now, if someone came to you tomorrow and said, look, Barry, I'm gonna be better at everything I do. I'm gonna perform better at just being a human. Three most important pieces of advice you have for them, what would they be?

I would say the first thing is you need to open your eyes and wake up to the fact that all throughout life you've had this. At least maybe no one told you directly, but it's in the culture, it's in the cultural milieu that your life is supposed to go like this and then like this and like this and like this.

And for people listening, like, up, down, up, down.

Well, up, down, but always in a declining down, so that the down is never back up to the next up. So you keep going down to finally, it's over, okay, so that life is not that way. It is not have to be that way. Life can be on the way up, up, up, and you can get stronger. You fly a plane at 82, 83, you. You can heal, your bones can get stronger. You can be able to do. You can find the love of your life at 70. All those things, if you're just being a human being, that you can do those things that your life does have so many things in it that are able to be fueled by this energy. So if you just connect with this source energy, with all these vibrations, your life can just zoom forward in all those areas we talked about, which is a real freedom. Second thing would be that I don't think there's a person out there that won't agree that, well, there's. You know, you may be a great business person, you may be a great athlete, but, you know, there's other areas in your life that you really would like to have great, because that's what we all are. We want this balance of being able to see both, you know, the trees and the water and hang with our family and our kids and be successful in business and be healthier and become more creative. So in all those areas, you're not limited. In the past, someone convinced you, someone convinced you could do maybe only so many, but inside, you know that there is other ones. You know that there's more things that you want to accomplish. You know that there's a mountain that you want to climb, like I climbed, and that you. In certain different areas, and you can do it with this energy. It isn't like you're limited to. You don't need confidence and push that on yourself and say, I'm positive, I'm Positive. I'm positive. Although it is good to be positive. You need to experience your competence and that's what these exercises do and the videos do. So there's a way to get to it. And then the third thing is, third thing is that in our lives, the way we've sort of been instructed, we've been instructed pretty much that, you know, it's going to be hard. It's going to be hard. You're going to have to practice 10,000 hours versus life can be so much easier and have flow. And you can be in the flow state all the time. You can be in the zone all the time. This thing that people want to get with mindfulness or meditation, so many of those clients have come to me and say this whole thing bypasses the long road to getting what people want in mindfulness or what they want in meditation. And it augments them so that they're able to get the benefits from it easily and they stay with it.

You've been doing this for quite a long time, sort of under the radar as a quote, real doctor. And now you're sort of coming out of that and just saying, I'm doing.

All, all these years I've been doing both gastroenterology every day and then doing the energy treatments at night and then the lectures on the weekends. So I pretty much have worked a seven day week for I guess about 15, 16 years. And the energy is the only way to do that effectively. Otherwise you'd get upset, burnt out, or you certainly would lose your verve.

So thanks again, I appreciate it. And I appreciate just that you spent so many years questing to find this stuff that you went through all the struggle to do it. And also that you're making it a little easier than climbing to the top of a mountain or spending thousands of dollars an hour with a very limited amount of time.

Yeah, no one has to do that anymore. Nobody has to do that anymore. It's done.

So anyhow, I hope you enjoyed this as much as I did. Have a wonderful whatever time of day it is that you're listening to this on your commuter at work, wherever else you listen to it in the bathtub, whatever the heck you do. And I look forward to seeing you on the next episode.

A Human Upgrade, formerly Bulletproof Radio, was created and is hosted by Dave Asprey. The information contained in this podcast is provided for informational purposes only and is not intended for the purposes of diagnosing, treating, curing or preventing any disease. Before using any products referenced on the podcast, consult with your healthcare provider carefully read all labels and heed all directions and cautions that accompany the products. Information found or received through the podcast should not be used in place of a consultation or advice from a healthcare provider. If you suspect you have a medical problem or should you have any healthcare questions, please promptly call or see your healthcare provider. This podcast, including Dave Asprey and the producers, disclaim responsibility for any possible adverse effects from the use of information contained herein. Opinions of guests are their own, and this podcast does not endorse or accept responsibility for statements made by guests. This podcast does not make any representations or warranties about guest qualifications or credibility. This podcast may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products or services. Individuals on this podcast may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to herein. This podcast is owned by Bulletproof Media.